Re: [MBZ] I saw...
A clip-on ammeter (for example http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-clamp-meter-96308.html) makes it easy. You just need to clip it around either (but not both) of the 220v wires to or inside the dryer. -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Mitch Haley Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 3:50 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] I saw... Dave Walton wrote: How do I go about measuring the current draw of a 240v dryer, for example? How precise do you need to be? I just shut down most loads (total load is only about 200kWh/month anyway), and take beginning and ending meter reads for a load in the dryer. That doesn't tell me how many Amps it draws, but it tells me that a load costs me $0.35-0.40. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw...
How do I go about measuring the current draw of a 240v dryer, for example? Can I put a clamp-on ammeter on each hot wire and add the readings? A clamp-meter on both hot legs, and _subtract_ the readings! That'll tell you what current must be flowing into the neutral. Of course, you can measure it directly too. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw...
Dave Walton wrote: How do I go about measuring the current draw of a 240v dryer, for example? How precise do you need to be? I just shut down most loads (total load is only about 200kWh/month anyway), and take beginning and ending meter reads for a load in the dryer. That doesn't tell me how many Amps it draws, but it tells me that a load costs me $0.35-0.40. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw...
L1 to N = 110V L2 to N = 110V L1 to L2 = 220V Apply Ohm's law: 1KW @ 110V has the same Amp as 2KW @ 220V. On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Craig diese...@pisquared.net wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2012 20:57:59 -0700 Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote: For 220V could you take 2 kill-o-watts and put one on each hot wire? No. The current in a 220V load is not headed in to the neutral. But a kill-o-watt only needs to measure the current in the hot wire (line 1), not in the neutral as well. It does measure the voltage between it's line and neutral, but if you return the load to the other line wire (line 2), it will still show the power drawn from its line. If you then have a second kill-o-watt in line 2, it will show the power drawn from line 2. The sum of the two kill-o-watts, then, should be the power drawn from the 220 (240) volt difference between line 1 and line 2. I say you can do it and get the correct answer. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Katy, TX '82 300SD '01 VW New Beetle 1.9L TDI ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw...
Craig wrote: But a kill-o-watt only needs to measure the current in the hot wire (line 1), not in the neutral as well. It does measure the voltage between it's line and neutral, but if you return the load to the other line wire (line 2), it will still show the power drawn from its line. If you then have a second kill-o-watt in line 2, it will show the power drawn from line 2. The sum of the two kill-o-watts, then, should be the power drawn from the 220 (240) volt difference between line 1 and line 2. I say you can do it and get the correct answer. Why two Kill A Watts? Wouldn't the current in two hot wires be equal, so if you put a K-A-W meter in one hot line, you just double the watt reading and keep the amp reading? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw...
On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 07:36:11 -0400 Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Craig wrote: But a kill-o-watt only needs to measure the current in the hot wire (line 1), not in the neutral as well. It does measure the voltage between it's line and neutral, but if you return the load to the other line wire (line 2), it will still show the power drawn from its line. If you then have a second kill-o-watt in line 2, it will show the power drawn from line 2. The sum of the two kill-o-watts, then, should be the power drawn from the 220 (240) volt difference between line 1 and line 2. I say you can do it and get the correct answer. Why two Kill A Watts? Wouldn't the current in two hot wires be equal, so if you put a K-A-W meter in one hot line, you just double the watt reading and keep the amp reading? That assumes that the voltages of the two hot wires are equal, which may or may not be a good assumption. But you are right, that's the easier way and should yield a close answer. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw...
On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 06:26:54 -0500 Hans Neureiter diese...@gmail.com wrote: L1 to N = 110V L2 to N = 110V L1 to L2 = 220V Apply Ohm's law: 1KW @ 110V has the same Amp as 2KW @ 220V. Yes, indeed! Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw...
OK - could you wire the two neutrals of the two KAW's together, then see the current? On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 10:57 PM, Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote: For 220V could you take 2 kill-o-watts and put one on each hot wire? No. The current in a 220V load is not headed in to the neutral. -- Jim __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 2012 Passat TDI DSG 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw...
On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 21:10:05 -0500 OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: OK - could you wire the two neutrals of the two KAW's together, then see the current? No, a 220 (240) load does not draw current from the neutral. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw...
How do I go about measuring the current draw of a 240v dryer, for example? Can I put a clamp-on ammeter on each hot wire and add the readings? The electronics are driven by 120V (one leg) and I will not easily know which is used for it so I can't measure just one of them, right? -Dave Walton On Sep 29, 2012, at 10:18 PM, Craig diese...@pisquared.net wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2012 21:10:05 -0500 OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: OK - could you wire the two neutrals of the two KAW's together, then see the current? No, a 220 (240) load does not draw current from the neutral. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw...
For 220V could you take 2 kill-o-watts and put one on each hot wire? No. The current in a 220V load is not headed in to the neutral. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw...
On Fri, 28 Sep 2012 20:57:59 -0700 Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote: For 220V could you take 2 kill-o-watts and put one on each hot wire? No. The current in a 220V load is not headed in to the neutral. But a kill-o-watt only needs to measure the current in the hot wire (line 1), not in the neutral as well. It does measure the voltage between it's line and neutral, but if you return the load to the other line wire (line 2), it will still show the power drawn from its line. If you then have a second kill-o-watt in line 2, it will show the power drawn from line 2. The sum of the two kill-o-watts, then, should be the power drawn from the 220 (240) volt difference between line 1 and line 2. I say you can do it and get the correct answer. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] I saw...
the other evening an SLS parked at the little shopping center down the road. I really liked its looks. I want one. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw...
http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/27/production-ready-mercedes-benz-sls-amg-electric-drive-supercar-u/ --R On 9/27/12 8:31 AM, Rich Thomas wrote: the other evening an SLS parked at the little shopping center down the road. I really liked its looks. I want one. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw...
Better tell mama she needs to get a big raise, or become one more corrupt politician. the other evening an SLS parked at the little shopping center down the road. I really liked its looks. I want one. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw...
Rich Thomas wrote: http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/27/production-ready-mercedes-benz-sls-amg-electric-drive-supercar-u/ If you can recharge a 60kwh battery in 3 hours, the 50-60A at 240v you're pulling out of the power line (three old fashioned clothes dryers' worth) will make your meter spin merrily. OTOH, $10 per 150 mile fuel cost (and Michigan is said to have the highest rates in the midwest) would make it the stingiest MBZ I've ever owned. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw...
On Thu, 27 Sep 2012 09:26:54 -0400 Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Rich Thomas wrote: http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/27/production-ready-mercedes-benz-sls-amg-electric-drive-supercar-u/ If you can recharge a 60kwh battery in 3 hours, the 50-60A at 240v you're pulling out of the power line (three old fashioned clothes dryers' worth) will make your meter spin merrily. 60 kWh2 W -- = 20 kw, - = 83.3 A (at 100% efficiency) 3 h 240 V At 95% efficiency, it would be 87.7 A. OTOH, $10 per 150 mile fuel cost (and Michigan is said to have the highest rates in the midwest) would make it the stingiest MBZ I've ever owned. What are your electric rates? Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw...
I'll need 2 of 'em. Wilton - Original Message - From: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:40 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] I saw... http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/27/production-ready-mercedes-benz-sls-amg-electric-drive-supercar-u/ --R On 9/27/12 8:31 AM, Rich Thomas wrote: the other evening an SLS parked at the little shopping center down the road. I really liked its looks. I want one. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw...
On 27/09/2012 7:40 AM, Rich Thomas wrote: http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/27/production-ready-mercedes-benz-sls-amg-electric-drive-supercar-u/ --R On 9/27/12 8:31 AM, Rich Thomas wrote: the other evening an SLS parked at the little shopping center down the road. I really liked its looks. I want one. --R _ I want one of the new VW Golf diesels that they are displaying at the Paris auto show. Very low drag coefficient and thus good mileage without going hybrid etc. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw...
Craig wrote: 60 kWh2 W -- = 20 kw, - = 83.3 A (at 100% efficiency) 3 h 240 V And then there's the fact that watts do not equal amps times volts when working with sine wave AC. Don't know how I came up with 40 instead of 80 for 20kw. I rounded up to 50-60A when I should have rounded up to 100-120A. And 120A is probably still too low, when allowing for the sine wave pattern and the loss in the battery and charger. But then, how could they expect you to have a 100A breaker to run it on? Does it require its own subpanel with direct connection to the meter's buss bars? Since you're paying for watts, not volt-amps, my price is probably about right, after of course you double it. $20 per 150 miles isn't as attractive, but it's cheaper than every Benz I have except my 2.5L diesels. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw...
Mitch Haley wrote: Since you're paying for watts, not volt-amps, my price is probably about right, after of course you double it. $20 per 150 miles isn't as attractive, but it's cheaper than every Benz I have except my 2.5L diesels. Oops, my Amps needed doubling, but not my price, which I arrived at by taking $0.12 per kWh x 60 Kwh and rounding up for inefficiencies. So it's still $10/150 miles, or 6-7 cents per mile. It's still going to make the meter spin like Cathey's underinsulated electric heated house in an ice storm. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw...
On Thu, 27 Sep 2012 10:10:09 -0400 Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Craig wrote: 60 kWh2 W -- = 20 kw, - = 83.3 A (at 100% efficiency) 3 h 240 V And then there's the fact that watts do not equal amps times volts when working with sine wave AC. Newer switch-mode power supplies have Power Factor Correction so they look like a resistive load to the AC line. Thus, watts do indeed equal amps times volts. So my previous statement does apply, At 95% efficiency, it would be 87.7 A. And 120A is probably still too low, when allowing for the sine wave pattern and the loss in the battery and charger. Ah, yes, I forgot about battery inefficiency. I don't know a figure for the current lithium hydride batteries, but the older NiCd batteries needed to be charged 14 - 16 hours at the 0.1C rate to fully recharge. That would imply efficiencies of 62.5 to 71.4%. Assuming the newer batteries are 80% efficiency, you would need 60 kWh/0.8 = 75 kWh to recharge the battery. Recharging in 3 hours implies a power draw of 25 kW. With 95% efficiency in the charger, that would be 26.32 kW from the line, or 109.7 A. But then, how could they expect you to have a 100A breaker to run it on? Does it require its own subpanel with direct connection to the meter's buss bars? It probably will, like a large air conditioner. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw...
Craig wrote: 60 kWh2 W -- = 20 kw, - = 83.3 A (at 100% efficiency) 3 h 240 V Mitch Haley wrote: And then there's the fact that watts do not equal amps times volts when working with sine wave AC. Watts = Amps x AC Volts RMS, regardless of the waveform. If the power factor (PF) is one. But if the PF is less than one - and it usually is, then Watts are _less_ than VoltAmps, not more. http://www.generatorguide.net/watt-acpower.html -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw...
And then there's the fact that watts do not equal amps times volts when working with sine wave AC. Watts = Amps x AC Volts RMS, regardless of the waveform... Exactly. A little more background: A non-true-RMS meter is usually actually a peak-reading meter. For a sine wave the RMS voltage is 0.707 times the peak voltage, and so your AC range is calibrated to this value. For sine waves you then read RMS (assumed) directly, but what you're really reading is peak voltage times the fudge factor. This can be useful to know, if you need a peak reading voltmeter for a periodic (but non-sinusoidal) waveform. Such a number is useless for wattage numbers, though, since you need RMS. Same for current. There are true-RMS meters out there, the Fluke 87 is one such. (My favorite Fluke 83 is not one. I have both. The 83's batteries last longer, it has one less IC in it.) For paid-for power you need wattage, and for that you need RMS voltage, current _and_ the power factor correction. That is not a number you will get, not easily unless you actually have a wattmeter. (I've got a couple, including the highly-useful Kill-O-Watt, but nothing that could measure a 220V heavy-duty appliance.) With a current clamp and a dual-trace oscilloscope you could probably map out a pretty good guess, though. (You have to integrate the instantaneous product of current and voltage across a cycle. Tedious, by hand!) That is, in fact, what a true wattmeter actually does, by some fashion. (Power factor is calculated by taking the ratio of watts to the RMS voltage multiplied by the RMS current, ignoring phase.) I know of three competing technologies for doing watts: emf-based meter 'motor' (vane, or actual spinning thing), analog multiplier/integrator, or digital integration. All are the same solution, just implemented with different technologies. (Integrating the instantaneous product of voltage and current.) If EV chargers became widespread I'd expect the charging circuit to be somewhat elaborate, and power-factor corrected. On a nationwide scale that would matter quite a lot. In fact, power factor itself isn't a very good number. It assumes that essentially there is an inductive or capacitive phase shift, only. The kind of thing that happens with motors, and inductive/capacitive loads. With these, power factor is corrected, reducing unpaid-for losses in the transmission network, via compensating capacitors or inductors. (Once upon a time this could be done with a synchronous rotating machine. The power savings alone would pay for a sinning installation to have this special machine installed and 'idling'. Or a big capacitor bank; whatever was needed.) A SMPS, though, can have a truly wretched power-draw cycle, essentially un-compensatable, and one that could give the rotating machinery nature of the power grid fits if it were large-scale enough. Rotating AC sinewave sources really like feeding resistive loads, like heaters and incandescent lights, and rotating machinery. Anything that diverges far from that results in wasted energy, or at least wasted generating capacity. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw...
For 220V could you take 2 kill-o-watts and put one on each hot wire? On Thursday, September 27, 2012, Jim Cathey wrote: And then there's the fact that watts do not equal amps times volts when working with sine wave AC. Watts = Amps x AC Volts RMS, regardless of the waveform... Exactly. A little more background: A non-true-RMS meter is usually actually a peak-reading meter. For a sine wave the RMS voltage is 0.707 times the peak voltage, and so your AC range is calibrated to this value. For sine waves you then read RMS (assumed) directly, but what you're really reading is peak voltage times the fudge factor. This can be useful to know, if you need a peak reading voltmeter for a periodic (but non-sinusoidal) waveform. Such a number is useless for wattage numbers, though, since you need RMS. Same for current. There are true-RMS meters out there, the Fluke 87 is one such. (My favorite Fluke 83 is not one. I have both. The 83's batteries last longer, it has one less IC in it.) For paid-for power you need wattage, and for that you need RMS voltage, current _and_ the power factor correction. That is not a number you will get, not easily unless you actually have a wattmeter. (I've got a couple, including the highly-useful Kill-O-Watt, but nothing that could measure a 220V heavy-duty appliance.) With a current clamp and a dual-trace oscilloscope you could probably map out a pretty good guess, though. (You have to integrate the instantaneous product of current and voltage across a cycle. Tedious, by hand!) That is, in fact, what a true wattmeter actually does, by some fashion. (Power factor is calculated by taking the ratio of watts to the RMS voltage multiplied by the RMS current, ignoring phase.) I know of three competing technologies for doing watts: emf-based meter 'motor' (vane, or actual spinning thing), analog multiplier/integrator, or digital integration. All are the same solution, just implemented with different technologies. (Integrating the instantaneous product of voltage and current.) If EV chargers became widespread I'd expect the charging circuit to be somewhat elaborate, and power-factor corrected. On a nationwide scale that would matter quite a lot. In fact, power factor itself isn't a very good number. It assumes that essentially there is an inductive or capacitive phase shift, only. The kind of thing that happens with motors, and inductive/capacitive loads. With these, power factor is corrected, reducing unpaid-for losses in the transmission network, via compensating capacitors or inductors. (Once upon a time this could be done with a synchronous rotating machine. The power savings alone would pay for a sinning installation to have this special machine installed and 'idling'. Or a big capacitor bank; whatever was needed.) A SMPS, though, can have a truly wretched power-draw cycle, essentially un-compensatable, and one that could give the rotating machinery nature of the power grid fits if it were large-scale enough. Rotating AC sinewave sources really like feeding resistive loads, like heaters and incandescent lights, and rotating machinery. Anything that diverges far from that results in wasted energy, or at least wasted generating capacity. -- Jim __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw...
On Fri, 28 Sep 2012 00:01:38 -0400 dave walton walton.d...@gmail.com wrote: For 220V could you take 2 kill-o-watts and put one on each hot wire? That would probably work. For large loads, like the one we have been talking about, you would need to add current transformers to scale the loads draw to the kill-o-watts range. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] I saw
a brand new black S600 at the grocery store this evening. It was very nice. I bought a megamillions ticket, maybe tomorrow I can go buy a couple of them. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] i saw a bmw 335d on the road the other day
good looking car. not quite sure about the market for a 40K plus compact diesel sporty sedan, but i am curious. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] i saw a bmw 335d on the road the other day
On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 12:46 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote: good looking car. not quite sure about the market for a 40K plus compact diesel sporty sedan, but i am curious. I wonder how they have solved the problem of the diesel sold in the USA being complete crap compared to the stuff sold in Europe, despite the switchover to ULSD. I know that has been the issue preventing some of the new diesel engines, like the Subaru flat-four, from being offered here(along with the crazy patchwork of CARB, EPA, DOT, and NHTSA rules that carmakers have to worry about compliance with). Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] i saw a bmw 335d on the road the other day
Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com writes: I wonder how they have solved the problem of the diesel sold in the USA being complete crap compared to the stuff sold in Europe, despite the switchover to ULSD. I know that has been the issue preventing some of the new diesel engines, like the Subaru flat-four, from being offered here(along with the crazy patchwork of CARB, EPA, DOT, and NHTSA rules that carmakers have to worry about compliance with). I think it more a combination of the regulatory labrynth and the general public distaste for passenger diesel cars (though this may slowly be changing) than the fuel itself. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] i saw a bmw 335d on the road the other day
the new ULSD isn't that bad compared to what's sold elsewhere; the issue is that about the same time the ULSD was ushered in, new tighter emissions regulations came into play. (not surprisingly, Calif leads the pack on being the most restrictive, and many manufacturers don't want to deal with a car they can't sell in all 50 states...) what i want to know is; has anyone been able to tell if this new BMW been designed with a proper emissions system that (unlike most 2007+ diesels) will allow the use of BioDiesel? or do they have the same Late Post-Injection system that is working so counter-productively on the Green Diesel TDIs? cheers! e Allan Streib wrote: I think it more a combination of the regulatory labrynth and the general public distaste for passenger diesel cars (though this may slowly be changing) than the fuel itself. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] I saw another 350SD today
I saw one of these sitting at a mechanic shop, had a blown head gasket, thought about buying it cheap but didn't (and I am therefore still among the living). Saw another one today, a white one. I thought that interesting since so few were produced or shipped here. Never had seen one before the one that was sick, so this is the second one. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw another 350SD today
Rich wrote: I saw one of these sitting at a mechanic shop, had a blown head gasket, thought about buying it cheap but didn't (and I am therefore still among the living). Saw another one today, a white one. I thought that interesting since so few were produced or shipped here. Never had seen one before the one that was sick, so this is the second one. Here's one here in Wichita. I am assuming you are talking about the 126 version not the 140. http://www.eurotechsaab.com/VehicleDetails/491708353 I looked at this one (I didn't drive it). I just walked around it. Looks pretty nice. Paint is okay, with some small flaws in several places, generally just tired paint. Interior looks VERY nice. It has sheepskins, so I don't know what the front seats look like. 135K miles is very low. The only thing it says on price is: Call us for price. BUT, remember what Marshall said about these cars, unless it has a Mercedes Factory Rebuilt engine, it is just a matter of time till it fails. Some of the haven't failed, yet, but they will and when they do, look out. Donald H. Snook -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090910/c0258113/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw another 350SD today
Donald Snook dsn...@mtsqh.com writes: BUT, remember what Marshall said about these cars, unless it has a Mercedes Factory Rebuilt engine, it is just a matter of time till it fails. Some of the haven't failed, yet, but they will and when they do, look out. Would a dealer be able to tell from the VIN whether this had been done (assuming it was done at a dealership shop, I suppose...) Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] I saw another 350SD today
Well, the one I saw at the mech shop had a bad head, but apparently a good block (so the list wisdom told me). I found an SDL at the junkyard, supposedly ran OK, had not been picked apart, the guy bought it from some dude in jail. I was thinking to get that engine, take the head off it, put it on the really nice car at the mechs, maybe have $1500 in the whole deal, but fear for my life kept me from attempting that. These were 126s, SDs not SDLs. --R Donald Snook wrote: Rich wrote: I saw one of these sitting at a mechanic shop, had a blown head gasket, thought about buying it cheap but didn't (and I am therefore still among the living). Saw another one today, a white one. I thought that interesting since so few were produced or shipped here. Never had seen one before the one that was sick, so this is the second one. Here's one here in Wichita. I am assuming you are talking about the 126 version not the 140. http://www.eurotechsaab.com/VehicleDetails/491708353 I looked at this one (I didn't drive it). I just walked around it. Looks pretty nice. Paint is okay, with some small flaws in several places, generally just tired paint. Interior looks VERY nice. It has sheepskins, so I don't know what the front seats look like. 135K miles is very low. The only thing it says on price is: Call us for price. BUT, remember what Marshall said about these cars, unless it has a Mercedes Factory Rebuilt engine, it is just a matter of time till it fails. Some of the haven't failed, yet, but they will and when they do, look out. Donald H. Snook -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090910/c0258113/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] I saw
an SLR today, a black one. It looked pretty cool coming at me on the road. Wonder if it is the same guy who owns the Lambo and DB9 convertible I saw on Saturday. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] I Saw one yesterday!!!
Hi; I saw a new 07 UPS truck; made by Freightliner with a 4 cylinder turbo. Mercedes Benz diesel in it; looks lika a larger 4 cyl. than my 240D, Ha!Ha!; man said runs good gets good mileage, though he didn't say how much mpg Steve
