Re: [MBZ] Ignition key problems (best way to start engine without ?)
what I did in a similar situation was put key in switch and then hammer in a screwdriver next to the key which gave me alot more leverage. then I put vice grips around the top of the screwdriver handle and viola it turned. I promptly drove it to my mechanic and had him replace the tumbler before turning the key to the off position. I can't remember if I shut the engine down with the kill switch or how I got it to turn off without the key its been a year or two ago now. Good luck. Eric 85 300CD If any listers can shed light on this question, I would appreciate. Otherwise I am inclined to advise against the starting and go to option no. 2 and drill out the lock assembly. Or is there even another avenue to contemplate? Richard Becker London ___ For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [MBZ] Ignition key problems (best way to start engine without ?)
eric peterson wrote: what I did in a similar situation was put key in switch and then hammer in a screwdriver next to the key which gave me alot more leverage. then I put vice grips around the top of the screwdriver handle and viola it turned. I promptly drove it to my mechanic and had him replace the tumbler before turning the key to the off position. Just FYI -- I believe once you've gotten the key to turn, you can remove the tumbler and drive the car without it by turning the ignition switch with a screwdriver. Might be handy if you can't take it to the mechanic right away.
Re: [MBZ] Ignition key problems (best way to start engine without ?)
Richard, I went through the same episode a while back. Definitely go with option A. In my situation it was a case of a worn tumbler and sticky steering lock. It may take some teasing, but if the new key worked once it will eventually work one more time. If the tumbler is worn and fussy, a sticky steering lock will exacerbate the problem and make it almost impossible. Go under the dash and spray some solvent into the steering lock mechanism from every possible seam and joint. It may take a couple light smacks with a brass hammer on the housing to shake things loose. Jiggle the steering wheel. Mine needed a hard slam on the wheel to allow the spring loaded steering lock to break loose and reduce the resistance against the tumbler. Good Luck, Bruce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Friend of mine has encountered a problem with his 500 SE W126 1988 and asked for advice. Here's what happened and what I advised so far (and what the MB dealer gave as a quote). Any further ideas and suggestions would be helpful, as always ;-) The ignition lock got sticky and it was not possible to start the engine or disengage the steering lock and get it into position 1 (which is of course the necessary step to remove the tumbler in the normal way). As the car was parked at a drop-off lane at a railway station, he had to call the breakdown service of the AA (the equivalent of the AAA in the UK). They tried to unseize the lock tumbler with WD40 and rattling, knocking etc. All the usual tricks. As the tumbler would have to be replaced anyway, they had a go whatever. No luck. The even broke off the last remaining key and part of it was stuck. They could later take the piece out of the lock with on the of the usual tricks (small drop of superglue on the key remainder, VERY carefully!) Car had to be towed away to the next dealership. On my advice, he ordered straight away a new key and a new ignition tumbler which takes a couple of days to arrive from Germany. Dealer quoted later GBP 700 + VAT (17.5%), around US-$1,500 in total, for removal of the sterring lock plus tumbler and to replace the whole assembly. When the new key arrived, my friend tried it and he got it into position one! Only to then take it out again on the assumption that he could repeat that trick. What a stupid mistake! It turns out that since then no-one could turn it to 1 again! I told him, that there are now only two options: a) he gets the key somehow again to position 1 so that the lock pin can be released with a wire put into the small hole as per the normal procedure to rr the tumbler. A matter of maybe 10 minutes. or b) to do the labour intensive and violent workaround by drilling out the small locking pin that secures the steering lock assembly to the column (relatively easy on a 126 with a Dremel and a diamond bit), drop the column a bit, then wriggle the complete lock assembly out from under the dash, cut out the ignition switch with a Dremel cutting disc off. Needs a new tumbler, a second hand steering lock and maybe a new switch depending how careful the cutting was done. 3- 5 hours work for an experienced DIY person on a 126. I understand why he wants to go by a) if at all possible ... Now the car is positioned at an outside car park and cannot be renoved easily due to the steering locked. Temperatures are around freezing temperatures during the night and a bit higher during the day. He wants to heat the car's interior up and dry out the interior with the heating and a/c, but he wants to somehow start the engine for that (no electricity around, and no generator can be started there). He asked me if there is a safe way to start the engine bypassing the ignition lock. I suppose there is, but my experience on the newer models (yes, I consider the 126 to be that) is limited. What are the implications for fuel injection, ignition modules, airbag, etc. ? Is there a way to start the engine without messing up the ignition circuit or anything else? If any listers can shed light on this question, I would appreciate. Otherwise I am inclined to advise against the starting and go to option no. 2 and drill out the lock assembly. Or is there even another avenue to contemplate? Richard Becker London ___ For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net Bruce 82 300CD 334kmi 'His' 85 300CD 236kmi 'Hers' 75 240D 194kmi 'Donner' 77 240D 204kmi 'Blitzen' - Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Dec 15 19:22:59 2005 Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net ([216.148.227.85]) by server5.arterytc5.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1Emygs-00058g-Tc for [EMAIL
Re: [MBZ] Ignition key problems (best way to start engine without ?)
On a 1988 model there should be no problem to jumper the ignition and starter solenoid directly from the battery. Airbags should be of no concern here. A (mostly,noisy) problem could be the security system if it's there.I tried to look at the 126 CD, but there is no 500SE listed. On 12/13/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Friend of mine has encountered a problem with his 500 SE W126 1988 and asked for advice. Here's what happened and what I advised so far (and what the MB dealer gave as a quote). Any further ideas and suggestions would be helpful, as always ;-) The ignition lock got sticky and it was not possible to start the engine or disengage the steering lock and get it into position 1 (which is of course the necessary step to remove the tumbler in the normal way). As the car was parked at a drop-off lane at a railway station, he had to call the breakdown service of the AA (the equivalent of the AAA in the UK). They tried to unseize the lock tumbler with WD40 and rattling, knocking etc. All the usual tricks. As the tumbler would have to be replaced anyway, they had a go whatever. No luck. The even broke off the last remaining key and part of it was stuck. They could later take the piece out of the lock with on the of the usual tricks (small drop of superglue on the key remainder, VERY carefully!) Car had to be towed away to the next dealership. On my advice, he ordered straight away a new key and a new ignition tumbler which takes a couple of days to arrive from Germany. Dealer quoted later GBP 700 + VAT (17.5%), around US-$1,500 in total, for removal of the sterring lock plus tumbler and to replace the whole assembly. When the new key arrived, my friend tried it and he got it into position one! Only to then take it out again on the assumption that he could repeat that trick. What a stupid mistake! It turns out that since then no-one could turn it to 1 again! I told him, that there are now only two options: a) he gets the key somehow again to position 1 so that the lock pin can be released with a wire put into the small hole as per the normal procedure to rr the tumbler. A matter of maybe 10 minutes. or b) to do the labour intensive and violent workaround by drilling out the small locking pin that secures the steering lock assembly to the column (relatively easy on a 126 with a Dremel and a diamond bit), drop the column a bit, then wriggle the complete lock assembly out from under the dash, cut out the ignition switch with a Dremel cutting disc off. Needs a new tumbler, a second hand steering lock and maybe a new switch depending how careful the cutting was done. 3- 5 hours work for an experienced DIY person on a 126. I understand why he wants to go by a) if at all possible ... Now the car is positioned at an outside car park and cannot be renoved easily due to the steering locked. Temperatures are around freezing temperatures during the night and a bit higher during the day. He wants to heat the car's interior up and dry out the interior with the heating and a/c, but he wants to somehow start the engine for that (no electricity around, and no generator can be started there). He asked me if there is a safe way to start the engine bypassing the ignition lock. I suppose there is, but my experience on the newer models (yes, I consider the 126 to be that) is limited. What are the implications for fuel injection, ignition modules, airbag, etc. ? Is there a way to start the engine without messing up the ignition circuit or anything else? If any listers can shed light on this question, I would appreciate. Otherwise I am inclined to advise against the starting and go to option no. 2 and drill out the lock assembly. Or is there even another avenue to contemplate? Richard Becker London ___ For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D
Re: [MBZ] Ignition key problems (best way to start engine without ?)
Read again the part that talks about 15 minutes of jiggling... In fact when I first started jiggling the steering column wasn't even locked... Locking it didn't help a bit in case you're wondering... -Curt Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:38:47 -0500 From: Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ignition key problems (best way to start engine without ?) To: Mercedes mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Curt Raymond wrote: Oh man I went through this Sunday with the 190D. My Indy called today yeah its been fine for me I assume you turned the wheel to take the pressure off the steering lock, but to no immediate effect? - Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Dec 14 02:01:29 2005 Received: from xproxy.gmail.com ([66.249.82.204]) by server5.arterytc5.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1EmLxR-0004L0-0S for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 02:01:29 + Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id s11so4683wxc for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:01:27 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=tjRkSlND2G2ZxKDW+yHeTUg3qLcENZN60EzxLrL83IkO0CSwqkygE9ezIKcMEdRtjzp3MXh9thJKXca+ZJwZ15389ndxGVhdNY3fVx4NENLEh/IEjnmePWiS1kkk18AbQejW/wFjDJBAuXGNVl+fB4JsL9e1eGtvtagzXqIjX+E= Received: by 10.70.54.13 with SMTP id c13mr62803wxa; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:01:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.124.6 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:01:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:01:27 -0600 From: OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] Oil Analysis X-BeenThere: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Id: Mercedes mailing list mercedes_striplin.net.striplin.net List-Unsubscribe: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: http://striplin.net/pipermail/mercedes_striplin.net List-Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 02:01:29 - Yes, he does soot -- I posted the results of the last two analysises (sp?) done on the SDL - 0.6% at 10K miles - Mobil 1, oil changed, second time 10.6K miles, 0.5%, still running the oil. Larry's service is very good. I do find that a single wrap of Scotch or electrical tape around the plastic tube makes a better seal with the bellows bottle when sucking the iol up. On 12/13/05, Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They do have a website: youroil.net I don't know if they do soot since I haven't been testing a diesel engi= ne. -Curt -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC The FSM created the Diesel Benz http://www.venganza.org/
Re: [MBZ] Ignition key problems (best way to start engine without ?)
I suppose it would depend on what made it stick but... DANGER WILL ROBINSON! When the lock my my 240D started getting sticky last year I did the same thing but with carb cleaner. Seemed like it was all better for months until one day I couldn't go to work... Its your call but after getting stuck once (at least I wasn't stuck AT work) I don't want to go through it again. -Curt Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:14:32 -0800 From: jgiels [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ignition key problems (best way to start engine without ?) To: Mercedes mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Ok .. I have seen this quite alot as a email. I know this isn't the same as replacing the cylinder. I used a can of electrical contact cleaner. With the little tube that is on the WD40 can.. and just sprayed the hell out of it.. I let it try for quite some time (as I did this at work at lunch) has worked fine ever since.. - Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Dec 14 02:03:56 2005 Received: from wsip-70-184-21-183.ok.ok.cox.net ([70.184.21.183] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by server5.arterytc5.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1EmLzo-0004Rl-FK for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 02:03:56 + Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:03:59 -0600 From: Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mercedes mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] Oil Analysis X-BeenThere: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Id: Mercedes mailing list mercedes_striplin.net.striplin.net List-Unsubscribe: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: http://striplin.net/pipermail/mercedes_striplin.net List-Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 02:03:56 - so how long do you figure you can go between changes now? OK Don wrote: Yes, he does soot -- I posted the results of the last two analysises (sp?) done on the SDL - 0.6% at 10K miles - Mobil 1, oil changed, second time 10.6K miles, 0.5%, still running the oil. Larry's service is very good. I do find that a single wrap of Scotch or electrical tape around the plastic tube makes a better seal with the bellows bottle when sucking the iol up. On 12/13/05, Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They do have a website: youroil.net I don't know if they do soot since I haven't been testing a diesel engine. -Curt -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC The FSM created the Diesel Benz http://www.venganza.org/ ___ For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D, 84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D, 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250 Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts
Re: [MBZ] Ignition key problems (best way to start engine without ?)
Read again the part that talks about 15 minutes of jiggling... Only 15 minutes? Oh, you'll have to do better than that! I put in a bunch of time on the 250C when it did it to me, and then one mysterious day it just operated again. In fact, I was so 'programmed' on the wiggle try that the first time it went to 1 I overshot and turned it back off again before I could react to success. But I slowed down a bit and got it to go again on another session. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Ignition key problems (best way to start engine without ?)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He asked me if there is a safe way to start the engine bypassing the ignition lock. On a diesel, probably. If it's a gasoline engine car, it would be much trickier. I doubt that's likely to help, though. At most it won't do much more than you could do by warming the key with a pocket lighter and then sticking it in the lock. Has he tried getting a new VIN-cut key from the dealer, and attempting to turn the lock with it? My lock turned *much* easier with a new key. It may give him the extra edge he needs to get the tumbler turned to position 1. All the usual tricks, sliding the key in and out a little, jiggling it, etc. apply. Otherwise, it's time to start drilling.
Re: [MBZ] Ignition key problems (best way to start engine without ?)
I understand why he wants to go by a) if at all possible ... And it's worth an hour of jiggling to get it to work, too! He asked me if there is a safe way to start the engine bypassing the ignition lock. Probably. You can probably do any necessary jumpering from the fuse box, and actuate the starter via the block under the hood. I can't envision that there would be any real problem doing this. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Ignition key problems (best way to start engine without ?)
ditto on the VIN key- that solved a tough lock on my '91. John Peterson - Original Message - From: David Brodbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 4:07 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ignition key problems (best way to start engine without ?) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He asked me if there is a safe way to start the engine bypassing the ignition lock. On a diesel, probably. If it's a gasoline engine car, it would be much trickier. I doubt that's likely to help, though. At most it won't do much more than you could do by warming the key with a pocket lighter and then sticking it in the lock. Has he tried getting a new VIN-cut key from the dealer, and attempting to turn the lock with it? My lock turned *much* easier with a new key. It may give him the extra edge he needs to get the tumbler turned to position 1. All the usual tricks, sliding the key in and out a little, jiggling it, etc. apply. Otherwise, it's time to start drilling. ___ For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] Ignition key problems (best way to start engine without ?)
Oh man I went through this Sunday with the 190D. We'd gone to the carwash to vacuum the car and when we were leaving the key wouldn't turn. 15 minutes of jiggling (the wife had given up after about 40 seconds. Jiggle jiggle, its broken, I'll call AAA) later and I got it turned. We went home, got the 240D and went straight to the Indy. I went through this on the 240D last year. My Indy called today yeah its been fine for me yeah well replace it anyway. I sure don't want to be stranded. Also, maybe this is different on a gasser vs a diesel but it seems to me getting the car started is not the problem, steering seems like it'd be an issue. -Curt Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:06:26 -0800 From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ignition key problems (best way to start engine without ?) To: Mercedes mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I understand why he wants to go by a) if at all possible ... And it's worth an hour of jiggling to get it to work, too! He asked me if there is a safe way to start the engine bypassing the ignition lock. Probably. You can probably do any necessary jumpering from the fuse box, and actuate the starter via the block under the hood. I can't envision that there would be any real problem doing this. -- Jim - Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue Dec 13 22:36:00 2005 Received: from mail2.mx.voyager.net ([216.93.66.206]) by server5.arterytc5.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1EmIka-00031H-FY for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:36:00 + Received: from voyager.net (d165.as3.sfld1.mi.core.com [209.153.156.154]) by mail2.mx.voyager.net (8.13.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id jBDMZxlN009503 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:36:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:38:47 -0500 From: Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mercedes mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ignition key problems (best way to start engine without ?) X-BeenThere: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Id: Mercedes mailing list mercedes_striplin.net.striplin.net List-Unsubscribe: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: http://striplin.net/pipermail/mercedes_striplin.net List-Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:36:00 - Curt Raymond wrote: Oh man I went through this Sunday with the 190D. My Indy called today yeah its been fine for me I assume you turned the wheel to take the pressure off the steering lock, but to no immediate effect?
