Re: [MBZ] OM617 timing (was: 300 sdl timing chain,)
When mine broke, stealer replaced several valves, lifters, chain (of course), several things I don't remember and had the head machined. Wilton - Original Message - From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM617 timing (was: 300 sdl timing chain,) Usually a broken chain means a busted camshaft tower on a 61x engine and little else. Usually means bent valves on a 60x engine, but little other damage. Peter -Original Message- From: WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com Sent: Aug 11, 2011 10:38 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM617 timing (was: 300 sdl timing chain,) In '96 at 89 kmi, while cruising at 60 mph, original chain on my '91 350SDL suddenly and without a sound broke, leaving me coasting quietly to a stop. 'Ruined that day and several others. Coupla years ago at 192 kmi, replacement chain was getting noisy; I had it replaced again as a precaution. Wilton - Original Message - From: Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM617 timing (was: 300 sdl timing chain,) OK Don wrote: Isn't an extremely stretched (worn) chain likely to fail? I seem to remember 5-6 degrees in a 617? I chain break on the higway could ruin your day --- Yes, but not greatly. In general, chains don't break like belts do. They just wear until... about 11 degrees or so you risk valve/piston contact, I recall. That makes an expensive klunk sound. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM617 timing (was: 300 sdl timing chain,)
When mine broke on a 603, it broke the cam and cam bearings. (I believe this was the vac pump puking balls from its bearing into the chain) When one broke on a 621, it broke the cam and bearings. When mine broke, stealer replaced several valves, lifters, chain (of course), several things I don't remember and had the head machined. Wilton - Original Message - From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM617 timing (was: 300 sdl timing chain,) Usually a broken chain means a busted camshaft tower on a 61x engine and little else. Usually means bent valves on a 60x engine, but little other damage. Peter -Original Message- From: WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com Sent: Aug 11, 2011 10:38 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM617 timing (was: 300 sdl timing chain,) In '96 at 89 kmi, while cruising at 60 mph, original chain on my '91 350SDL suddenly and without a sound broke, leaving me coasting quietly to a stop. 'Ruined that day and several others. Coupla years ago at 192 kmi, replacement chain was getting noisy; I had it replaced again as a precaution. Wilton - Original Message - From: Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM617 timing (was: 300 sdl timing chain,) OK Don wrote: Isn't an extremely stretched (worn) chain likely to fail? I seem to remember 5-6 degrees in a 617? I chain break on the higway could ruin your day --- Yes, but not greatly. In general, chains don't break like belts do. They just wear until... about 11 degrees or so you risk valve/piston contact, I recall. That makes an expensive klunk sound. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM617 timing (was: 300 sdl timing chain,)
Isn't an extremely stretched (worn) chain likely to fail? I seem to remember 5-6 degrees in a 617? I chain break on the higway could ruin your day --- On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 7:33 PM, Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote: Allan Streib wrote: I never have. My engine starts easily, has good power, doesn't smoke, so I feel that this is a case where if it ain't broke don't fix it might apply. Well, not really. As the engine wears, the timing will retard. Which is the safer direction. And as it happens slowly, you likely will never notice it happening. But power, efficiency, carbon buildup, and injector health are affected by the timing. Check the timing. Most likely you can then ignore it until the chain stretch changes noticeably. Check the chain at least once a year (in the autumn) when adjusting the valve lash. If you put lots of miles on the engine, valve lash might be needed more than once a year. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM617 timing (was: 300 sdl timing chain,)
A badly worn chain will slap, too. 8 degrees is the wear limit, but I'd personally not wait that long. By that time you are very short on low end power and the injection timing will be late enough to notice if not reset. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM617 timing (was: 300 sdl timing chain,)
OK Don wrote: Isn't an extremely stretched (worn) chain likely to fail? I seem to remember 5-6 degrees in a 617? I chain break on the higway could ruin your day --- Yes, but not greatly. In general, chains don't break like belts do. They just wear until... about 11 degrees or so you risk valve/piston contact, I recall. That makes an expensive klunk sound. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM617 timing (was: 300 sdl timing chain,)
In '96 at 89 kmi, while cruising at 60 mph, original chain on my '91 350SDL suddenly and without a sound broke, leaving me coasting quietly to a stop. 'Ruined that day and several others. Coupla years ago at 192 kmi, replacement chain was getting noisy; I had it replaced again as a precaution. Wilton - Original Message - From: Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM617 timing (was: 300 sdl timing chain,) OK Don wrote: Isn't an extremely stretched (worn) chain likely to fail? I seem to remember 5-6 degrees in a 617? I chain break on the higway could ruin your day --- Yes, but not greatly. In general, chains don't break like belts do. They just wear until... about 11 degrees or so you risk valve/piston contact, I recall. That makes an expensive klunk sound. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM617 timing (was: 300 sdl timing chain,)
Usually a broken chain means a busted camshaft tower on a 61x engine and little else. Usually means bent valves on a 60x engine, but little other damage. Peter -Original Message- From: WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com Sent: Aug 11, 2011 10:38 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM617 timing (was: 300 sdl timing chain,) In '96 at 89 kmi, while cruising at 60 mph, original chain on my '91 350SDL suddenly and without a sound broke, leaving me coasting quietly to a stop. 'Ruined that day and several others. Coupla years ago at 192 kmi, replacement chain was getting noisy; I had it replaced again as a precaution. Wilton - Original Message - From: Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM617 timing (was: 300 sdl timing chain,) OK Don wrote: Isn't an extremely stretched (worn) chain likely to fail? I seem to remember 5-6 degrees in a 617? I chain break on the higway could ruin your day --- Yes, but not greatly. In general, chains don't break like belts do. They just wear until... about 11 degrees or so you risk valve/piston contact, I recall. That makes an expensive klunk sound. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] OM617 timing (was: 300 sdl timing chain,)
I never have. My engine starts easily, has good power, doesn't smoke, so I feel that this is a case where if it ain't broke don't fix it might apply. Many things that can be adjusted should be left alone in the absence of any problems. Is there a scheduled maintenance interval that includes timing adjustment? Allan andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com writes: Amazing! I wonder how many other 123 owners never bother to explictly check engine timing. I look forward to improved performance from my new 85 300TD. On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Rolf r...@winmutt.com wrote: Well that could entail a whole books worth of answers. Retarded timing tends to make for black smoke and high egts. Premature timing tends to make for grey smoke. Proper timing will increase power and minimize particulates. Injectors can cause the same thing, low pop pressure (worn springs) you get early injection, clogged injectors can lead to dribble (injector keeps sending fuel after its supposed to stop) and then black smoke. -Rolf On 08/10/2011 01:57 PM, astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: Great - thanks, Rolf. One last question. So how will this adjustment improve how the engine operates? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Rolfr...@winmutt.com Sender: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 13:53:24 To:mercedes@okiebenz.com Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300 sdl timing chain, That is up for some debate. I cant see why you wouldnt be able to do it via the RIV tool port on 84 and 85's but GSXR on pp said you couldn't. Why I don't know. Its worth a try I think, unfortunately my 85 has an 83 engine... It should dead simple, similar to the steps liste in 07_1-111. Rotate the engine to the proper timing mark, stick the lock tool in (make sure the slot is horizontal to accept the tang) and then adjust the IP banck or forward until the tang pops in the slot and bam your done. -Rolf On 08/10/2011 01:37 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: Rolf wrote: Diesel engines are all about timing. Do the later 617 engines take a lock tool similar to the 60x engines? __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM617 timing (was: 300 sdl timing chain,)
E I never have. My engine starts easily, has good power, doesn't smoke, so I feel that this is a case where if it ain't broke don't fix it might apply. Many things that can be adjusted should be left alone in the absence of any problems. Is there a scheduled maintenance interval that includes timing adjustment? Allan andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com writes: Amazing! I wonder how many other 123 owners never bother to explictly check engine timing. I look forward to improved performance from my new 85 300TD. On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Rolf r...@winmutt.com wrote: Well that could entail a whole books worth of answers. Retarded timing tends to make for black smoke and high egts. Premature timing tends to make for grey smoke. Proper timing will increase power and minimize particulates. Injectors can cause the same thing, low pop pressure (worn springs) you get early injection, clogged injectors can lead to dribble (injector keeps sending fuel after its supposed to stop) and then black smoke. -Rolf On 08/10/2011 01:57 PM, astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: Great - thanks, Rolf. One last question. So how will this adjustment improve how the engine operates? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Rolfr...@winmutt.com Sender: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 13:53:24 To:mercedes@okiebenz.com Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300 sdl timing chain, That is up for some debate. I cant see why you wouldnt be able to do it via the RIV tool port on 84 and 85's but GSXR on pp said you couldn't. Why I don't know. Its worth a try I think, unfortunately my 85 has an 83 engine... It should dead simple, similar to the steps liste in 07_1-111. Rotate the engine to the proper timing mark, stick the lock tool in (make sure the slot is horizontal to accept the tang) and then adjust the IP banck or forward until the tang pops in the slot and bam your done. -Rolf On 08/10/2011 01:37 PM, Mitch Haley wrote: Rolf wrote: Diesel engines are all about timing. Do the later 617 engines take a lock tool similar to the 60x engines? __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM617 timing (was: 300 sdl timing chain,)
Allan Streib wrote: I never have. My engine starts easily, has good power, doesn't smoke, so I feel that this is a case where if it ain't broke don't fix it might apply. Well, not really. As the engine wears, the timing will retard. Which is the safer direction. And as it happens slowly, you likely will never notice it happening. But power, efficiency, carbon buildup, and injector health are affected by the timing. Check the timing. Most likely you can then ignore it until the chain stretch changes noticeably. Check the chain at least once a year (in the autumn) when adjusting the valve lash. If you put lots of miles on the engine, valve lash might be needed more than once a year. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
