Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

In Areland, almost all cars are Dissel.  (5 speed)  the gummit had been 
pushing  Dissel as a better alternative for years.  (good for them!)   
Few cars are over 10 yrs old.   Now the gummit has a conundrum because 
it promoted DIssel, but now the EU wants to eliminate Dissel.  I hope 
areland has the guts to tell the EU to F Off.


Dissel Fool is about 10 - 15 yurocents less than  Benzine.   (Stink fuel)


G Mann via Mercedes 
March 16, 2018 at 1:33 PM
Second that.

Unfortunately, in view of the recent rulings by various French and German
European powers which are now in the active process of "banning evil 
diesel

cars", and "old cars" with reasonable expectations of such efforts in USA
to follow, such conversation does have direct relevance to our vast fleet
of "old diesel Mercedes". On a broad brush view, at least.

The logical off shoot of such government actions is likely to be loss of
factory support for parts, which we need to keep our Diesel Mercedes
operational... so, again relevant.

Your mileage may vary,
Grant...


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

There! I fixed it.  And a big customer too what with his huge houses and many 
first class flights, private planes, big cars...
-Curt
 


Not to mention albore being e first rate hypocrite

Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

And a big customer too what with his huge house and many first class flights, 
big car...
-Curt
  



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

The other day Home Depot had some kind of Solar company hawking its services. 
For giggles I let the woman take a look at my house. She gave me this song and 
dance about how they were going to save me $100/mo in electricity. I told her 
we don't actually use but half that much. She told me how we could use more 
electricity because it would be free.

I told her I want to do solar hot water because the ROI is much better than 
photovoltaic. She told me to get an electric hot water heater and PV. 

Thats when I walked away...

-Curt






On Friday, March 16, 2018, 2:59:19 PM EDT, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
 wrote: 





I drive a Mercedes ldiesel and my roof is covered with solar pv panels. The
best of both worlds.



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I drive a Mercedes ldiesel and my roof is covered with solar pv panels. The
best of both worlds.

On Mar 16, 2018 2:33 PM, "G Mann via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> Second that.
>
> Unfortunately, in view of the recent rulings by various French and German
> European powers which are now in the active process of "banning evil diesel
> cars", and "old cars" with reasonable expectations of such efforts in USA
> to follow, such conversation does have direct relevance to our vast fleet
> of "old diesel Mercedes". On a broad brush view, at least.
>
> The logical off shoot of such government actions is likely to be loss of
> factory support for parts, which we need to keep our Diesel Mercedes
> operational... so, again relevant.
>
> Your mileage may vary,
> Grant...
>
> On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 11:03 AM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > So keep it Mercedes not wind power.
> >
> > Dwight Giles Jr.
> > Wickford RI
> >
> > On Mar 16, 2018 1:50 PM, "Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes" <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > >  So this all started when I posted a seemingly innocent story about a
> > > potential technological breakthrough in solar power. It was
> misconstrued
> > as
> > > a political statement, which it wasn't and isn't. You can argue among
> > > yourselves, but I'm not going to be dragged into this anymore. I
> suggest
> > > you start your own new topic. Just be sure to label it as political.
> > >
> > > On Mar 16, 2018 1:34 PM, "G Mann via Mercedes" 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > It is my considered opine that Tipper Gore demonstrated for the rest
> of
> > > us
> > > > how to best handle Al Gore. Divorce him.
> > > >
> > > > Or keep buying "carbon credits" from a man who arrives via a
> > private
> > > > jet that gulps thousands of gallons of deadly fossil fuel, while
> owning
> > > > multiple mansions that consume, per month, more electricity that 32
> > > family
> > > > homes.. Yeah, follow his example and get rich while you do it..
> > > > "Walking Oxymoron" comes to mind.
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 9:09 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> > > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > If nothing else, Al Gore is a convenient scapegoat/whipping
> > > > boy/fundraiser
> > > > > for the fossil fool crowd.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 9:58 PM, Jim Cathey <
> jim.cathey...@gmail.com
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Al Gore doesn't even know you exist and couldn't care less if he
> > knew
> > > > how
> > > > > >> much you despise him.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Basic physics laughs at Al Gore.  Basic physics laughs at you and
> > me.
> > > > > > Basic physics is a cold heartless bastard.
> > > > > > (But you can always count on him.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -- Jim
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > ___
> > > > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > > >
> > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > > > >
> > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > >
> > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > > >
> > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > >
> > ___
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> >
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Second that.

Unfortunately, in view of the recent rulings by various French and German
European powers which are now in the active process of "banning evil diesel
cars", and "old cars" with reasonable expectations of such efforts in USA
to follow, such conversation does have direct relevance to our vast fleet
of "old diesel Mercedes". On a broad brush view, at least.

The logical off shoot of such government actions is likely to be loss of
factory support for parts, which we need to keep our Diesel Mercedes
operational... so, again relevant.

Your mileage may vary,
Grant...

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 11:03 AM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> So keep it Mercedes not wind power.
>
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> Wickford RI
>
> On Mar 16, 2018 1:50 PM, "Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes" <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >  So this all started when I posted a seemingly innocent story about a
> > potential technological breakthrough in solar power. It was misconstrued
> as
> > a political statement, which it wasn't and isn't. You can argue among
> > yourselves, but I'm not going to be dragged into this anymore. I suggest
> > you start your own new topic. Just be sure to label it as political.
> >
> > On Mar 16, 2018 1:34 PM, "G Mann via Mercedes" 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > It is my considered opine that Tipper Gore demonstrated for the rest of
> > us
> > > how to best handle Al Gore. Divorce him.
> > >
> > > Or keep buying "carbon credits" from a man who arrives via a
> private
> > > jet that gulps thousands of gallons of deadly fossil fuel, while owning
> > > multiple mansions that consume, per month, more electricity that 32
> > family
> > > homes.. Yeah, follow his example and get rich while you do it..
> > > "Walking Oxymoron" comes to mind.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 9:09 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > If nothing else, Al Gore is a convenient scapegoat/whipping
> > > boy/fundraiser
> > > > for the fossil fool crowd.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 9:58 PM, Jim Cathey  >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Al Gore doesn't even know you exist and couldn't care less if he
> knew
> > > how
> > > > >> much you despise him.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Basic physics laughs at Al Gore.  Basic physics laughs at you and
> me.
> > > > > Basic physics is a cold heartless bastard.
> > > > > (But you can always count on him.)
> > > > >
> > > > > -- Jim
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > >
> > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > > >
> > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

So keep it Mercedes not wind power.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Mar 16, 2018 1:50 PM, "Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes" <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>  So this all started when I posted a seemingly innocent story about a
> potential technological breakthrough in solar power. It was misconstrued as
> a political statement, which it wasn't and isn't. You can argue among
> yourselves, but I'm not going to be dragged into this anymore. I suggest
> you start your own new topic. Just be sure to label it as political.
>
> On Mar 16, 2018 1:34 PM, "G Mann via Mercedes" 
> wrote:
>
> > It is my considered opine that Tipper Gore demonstrated for the rest of
> us
> > how to best handle Al Gore. Divorce him.
> >
> > Or keep buying "carbon credits" from a man who arrives via a private
> > jet that gulps thousands of gallons of deadly fossil fuel, while owning
> > multiple mansions that consume, per month, more electricity that 32
> family
> > homes.. Yeah, follow his example and get rich while you do it..
> > "Walking Oxymoron" comes to mind.
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 9:09 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > If nothing else, Al Gore is a convenient scapegoat/whipping
> > boy/fundraiser
> > > for the fossil fool crowd.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 9:58 PM, Jim Cathey 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Al Gore doesn't even know you exist and couldn't care less if he knew
> > how
> > > >> much you despise him.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Basic physics laughs at Al Gore.  Basic physics laughs at you and me.
> > > > Basic physics is a cold heartless bastard.
> > > > (But you can always count on him.)
> > > >
> > > > -- Jim
> > > >
> > > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

 So this all started when I posted a seemingly innocent story about a
potential technological breakthrough in solar power. It was misconstrued as
a political statement, which it wasn't and isn't. You can argue among
yourselves, but I'm not going to be dragged into this anymore. I suggest
you start your own new topic. Just be sure to label it as political.

On Mar 16, 2018 1:34 PM, "G Mann via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> It is my considered opine that Tipper Gore demonstrated for the rest of us
> how to best handle Al Gore. Divorce him.
>
> Or keep buying "carbon credits" from a man who arrives via a private
> jet that gulps thousands of gallons of deadly fossil fuel, while owning
> multiple mansions that consume, per month, more electricity that 32 family
> homes.. Yeah, follow his example and get rich while you do it..
> "Walking Oxymoron" comes to mind.
>
> On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 9:09 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > If nothing else, Al Gore is a convenient scapegoat/whipping
> boy/fundraiser
> > for the fossil fool crowd.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 9:58 PM, Jim Cathey 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Al Gore doesn't even know you exist and couldn't care less if he knew
> how
> > >> much you despise him.
> > >
> > >
> > > Basic physics laughs at Al Gore.  Basic physics laughs at you and me.
> > > Basic physics is a cold heartless bastard.
> > > (But you can always count on him.)
> > >
> > > -- Jim
> > >
> > >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[G Mann via Mercedes]

It is my considered opine that Tipper Gore demonstrated for the rest of us
how to best handle Al Gore. Divorce him.

Or keep buying "carbon credits" from a man who arrives via a private
jet that gulps thousands of gallons of deadly fossil fuel, while owning
multiple mansions that consume, per month, more electricity that 32 family
homes.. Yeah, follow his example and get rich while you do it..
"Walking Oxymoron" comes to mind.

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 9:09 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> If nothing else, Al Gore is a convenient scapegoat/whipping boy/fundraiser
> for the fossil fool crowd.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 9:58 PM, Jim Cathey 
> wrote:
>
> > Al Gore doesn't even know you exist and couldn't care less if he knew how
> >> much you despise him.
> >
> >
> > Basic physics laughs at Al Gore.  Basic physics laughs at you and me.
> > Basic physics is a cold heartless bastard.
> > (But you can always count on him.)
> >
> > -- Jim
> >
> >
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I have a hard time with anybody who wants me to change how I live while living 
high on the hog. Have you read "Animal Farm"?

When I was in school my backpack had a button "Question Authority". Today I'm 
more likely to think "Question Everything" since it seems like all of our 
"leaders" are morally suspect.

I don't understand why so many people are so willing to just swallow a line 
because "He's on our side." They're all pigs, I refuse to be the horse.

-Curt






On Friday, March 16, 2018, 12:34:05 PM EDT, Andrew Strasfogel 
 wrote: 





Wow, good for you Curt!  I guess if he lived in a cave then you would believe 
everything he writes?



On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 12:10 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> And a big customer too what with his huge house and many first class flights, 
> big car...
> 
> -Curt
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
>  
>  On Friday, March 16, 2018, 12:09:10 PM EDT, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
> wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If nothing else, Al Gore is a convenient scapegoat/whipping boy/fundraiser
> for the fossil fool crowd.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Wow, good for you Curt!  I guess if he lived in a cave then you would
believe everything he writes?



On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 12:10 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

> And a big customer too what with his huge house and many first class
> flights, big car...
>
> -Curt
>
>
> On Friday, March 16, 2018, 12:09:10 PM EDT, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
>
> If nothing else, Al Gore is a convenient scapegoat/whipping boy/fundraiser
> for the fossil fool crowd.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 9:58 PM, Jim Cathey 
> wrote:
>
> > Al Gore doesn't even know you exist and couldn't care less if he knew how
> >> much you despise him.
> >
> >
> > Basic physics laughs at Al Gore.  Basic physics laughs at you and me.
> > Basic physics is a cold heartless bastard.
> > (But you can always count on him.)
> >
> > -- Jim
> >
> >
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

And a big customer too what with his huge house and many first class flights, 
big car...
-Curt
 

On Friday, March 16, 2018, 12:09:10 PM EDT, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 If nothing else, Al Gore is a convenient scapegoat/whipping boy/fundraiser
for the fossil fool crowd.



On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 9:58 PM, Jim Cathey  wrote:

> Al Gore doesn't even know you exist and couldn't care less if he knew how
>> much you despise him.
>
>
> Basic physics laughs at Al Gore.  Basic physics laughs at you and me.
> Basic physics is a cold heartless bastard.
> (But you can always count on him.)
>
> -- Jim
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

If nothing else, Al Gore is a convenient scapegoat/whipping boy/fundraiser
for the fossil fool crowd.



On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 9:58 PM, Jim Cathey  wrote:

> Al Gore doesn't even know you exist and couldn't care less if he knew how
>> much you despise him.
>
>
> Basic physics laughs at Al Gore.  Basic physics laughs at you and me.
> Basic physics is a cold heartless bastard.
> (But you can always count on him.)
>
> -- Jim
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

>
> Al Gore doesn't even know you exist and couldn't care less if he knew how
> much you despise him.


Basic physics laughs at Al Gore.  Basic physics laughs at you and me.
Basic physics is a cold heartless bastard.
(But you can always count on him.)

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

You have to make everything political, don't you?  BTW, Al Gore doesn't
even know you exist and couldn't care less if he knew how much you despise
him.

On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 9:58 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Awww,   Come one!  you are raining on the albore/greeniweenie parade!
> Albore needs more of your money and mine!
>
> Jim Cathey 
>> March 15, 2018 at 8:55 AM
>>
>> Basic physics will sit off to the side and laugh at your antics.  Basic
>> physics cares not.
>>
>> -- Jim
>>
>> Curley McLain 
>> March 14, 2018 at 10:44 PM
>> Ah Grasshopper!   Basic physics and real science can be denied if there
>> are big bux to be made!  And it helps if you usta be high placed in the
>> goobermnt.  (Albore)
>>
>> All ya have ta do is claim 97% of scientists agree, and bully (and cut
>> off goobermnt funds to) anyone who disagrees!   (Albore)
>>
>> If we wanna have downspout turbines, all we have to do is start a
>> goobermnt program and fund it.Majikally, the "science" will appear!
>>
>> Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
>> March 14, 2018 at 10:19 PM
>>
>>
>> My only point was that drip hydro can't even generate that much power!
>> So unless these static films cost at most pennies, _and_ didn't cut down
>> _any_
>> on the solar flux, they're utterly pointless.
>>
>> Basic physics will not be denied.
>>
>> -- Jim
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>> Max Dillon via Mercedes 
>> March 14, 2018 at 7:28 PM
>> Science!
>> OK Don via Mercedes 
>> March 14, 2018 at 6:50 PM
>>
>> I hate to "rain on your parade", but if it sounds too good to be true:
>>
>> Myth 2: Rooftop / Downspout Hydro
>>
>> A second common microhydro-electric scheme that we are often asked about
>> is
>> the viability of putting turbines on a home’s gutter downspouts to
>> generate
>> electricity from the rain. Some imaginative folks know enough about hydro
>> to understand that the energy has to come from somewhere (in this case,
>> from the forces of nature), and that the height of the roof can contribute
>> head (pressure) to spin that turbine.
>>
>> The mistake in this scenario is a simple and honest one of scale. While
>> some hydro units have been designed that can function on low head, such as
>> from the roofline of typical homes (and even lower), a hydro turbine’s
>> power output is a product of head *times* flow. And it is a lack of
>> significant flow that is the defeating factor in the power equation when
>> relying on rooftop rainwater collection. The watershed drainages for even
>> small streams are usually measured in thousands of acres or square miles.
>> Home roofs, even big ones, are measured in mere thousands of square feet.
>>
>> Let’s look at example calculations for a large house in a very rainy
>> place—Seattle, Washington, gets about 40 inches of rain per year, with
>> November being the rainiest month at an average of about 6 inches.
>>
>> Let’s assume that a tall two-story house would give us a 25-foot-high
>> roof,
>> and thus 25 feet of head. This 6,000-square-foot home has about 3,000
>> square feet of rainwater collection area (remember, it’s two stories).
>> That
>> means that in November, this house would receive about 1,500 cubic feet of
>> rain, or 11,220 gallons.
>>
>> If that rainfall came as a constant drizzle all month long, flow from the
>> roof would be only about 1/4 gallon per minute. Currently there is no
>> turbine on the market to work with that flows that low, but using our
>> microhydro power formula (see sidebar), we could theoretically get 468
>> watt-hours that month.
>>
>>
>> *0.26 gpm × 25 feet ÷ 10 derate = 0.65 watts × 720 hrs./mo. = 468 Wh*
>>
>> So even if there was a nanohydro plant that could harvest that small flow,
>> it would result in less than 1/2 kWh of electricity—per month!—and only 3
>> cents worth of electricity in Seattle. It’s a tiny fraction of what even
>> an
>> energy-efficient, 6,000-square-foot home would use in a day, not to
>> mention
>> a whole month.
>>
>> Would the available energy increase if we weren’t dealing with a constant
>> drizzle? What if, to increase flows to a usable rate, and hopefully
>> increase viable energy production, we could hope that all that rain came
>> in
>> a great deluge of 1 inch per hour (a 100-year storm, in Seattle) over six
>> hours! At that unlikely amount of rain—practically all at once—flow from
>> our example roof would be about 31 gpm. That is a more viable flow rate
>> for
>> hydro turbines on the market and gives us a projected power production of
>> 77.5 watts, but only for those six hours. The total of 465 Wh per month is
>> about the 

Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Awww,   Come one!  you are raining on the albore/greeniweenie parade!
Albore needs more of your money and mine!



Jim Cathey 
March 15, 2018 at 8:55 AM

Basic physics will sit off to the side and laugh at your antics.  
Basic physics cares not.


-- Jim

Curley McLain 
March 14, 2018 at 10:44 PM
Ah Grasshopper!   Basic physics and real science can be denied if 
there are big bux to be made!  And it helps if you usta be high placed 
in the goobermnt.  (Albore)


All ya have ta do is claim 97% of scientists agree, and bully (and cut 
off goobermnt funds to) anyone who disagrees!   (Albore)


If we wanna have downspout turbines, all we have to do is start a 
goobermnt program and fund it.Majikally, the "science" will appear!


Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
March 14, 2018 at 10:19 PM


My only point was that drip hydro can't even generate that much power!
So unless these static films cost at most pennies, _and_ didn't cut down
_any_
on the solar flux, they're utterly pointless.

Basic physics will not be denied.

-- Jim
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Max Dillon via Mercedes 
March 14, 2018 at 7:28 PM
Science!
OK Don via Mercedes 
March 14, 2018 at 6:50 PM
I hate to "rain on your parade", but if it sounds too good to be true:

Myth 2: Rooftop / Downspout Hydro

A second common microhydro-electric scheme that we are often asked 
about is
the viability of putting turbines on a home’s gutter downspouts to 
generate

electricity from the rain. Some imaginative folks know enough about hydro
to understand that the energy has to come from somewhere (in this case,
from the forces of nature), and that the height of the roof can contribute
head (pressure) to spin that turbine.

The mistake in this scenario is a simple and honest one of scale. While
some hydro units have been designed that can function on low head, such as
from the roofline of typical homes (and even lower), a hydro turbine’s
power output is a product of head *times* flow. And it is a lack of
significant flow that is the defeating factor in the power equation when
relying on rooftop rainwater collection. The watershed drainages for even
small streams are usually measured in thousands of acres or square miles.
Home roofs, even big ones, are measured in mere thousands of square feet.

Let’s look at example calculations for a large house in a very rainy
place—Seattle, Washington, gets about 40 inches of rain per year, with
November being the rainiest month at an average of about 6 inches.

Let’s assume that a tall two-story house would give us a 25-foot-high 
roof,

and thus 25 feet of head. This 6,000-square-foot home has about 3,000
square feet of rainwater collection area (remember, it’s two stories). 
That

means that in November, this house would receive about 1,500 cubic feet of
rain, or 11,220 gallons.

If that rainfall came as a constant drizzle all month long, flow from the
roof would be only about 1/4 gallon per minute. Currently there is no
turbine on the market to work with that flows that low, but using our
microhydro power formula (see sidebar), we could theoretically get 468
watt-hours that month.


*0.26 gpm × 25 feet ÷ 10 derate = 0.65 watts × 720 hrs./mo. = 468 Wh*

So even if there was a nanohydro plant that could harvest that small flow,
it would result in less than 1/2 kWh of electricity—per month!—and only 3
cents worth of electricity in Seattle. It’s a tiny fraction of what 
even an
energy-efficient, 6,000-square-foot home would use in a day, not to 
mention

a whole month.

Would the available energy increase if we weren’t dealing with a constant
drizzle? What if, to increase flows to a usable rate, and hopefully
increase viable energy production, we could hope that all that rain 
came in

a great deluge of 1 inch per hour (a 100-year storm, in Seattle) over six
hours! At that unlikely amount of rain—practically all at once—flow from
our example roof would be about 31 gpm. That is a more viable flow 
rate for

hydro turbines on the market and gives us a projected power production of
77.5 watts, but only for those six hours. The total of 465 Wh per month is
about the same energy as the drizzly example above (the minor 
difference is

from rounding significant digits).

This is when inventive thinkers will begin planning for taller homes, or
additional rain-collecting roof areas, and tanks to hold the water for
release all at once to increase flow. But even that 11,220 gallons of 
water

that falls on our 3,000-square-foot roof that month would weigh almost 47
tons if stored. Imagine a structure at roof level capable of supporting
that kind of load just to generate a minuscule 

Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

>
> Basic physics and real science can be denied if there are big bux to be
> made!


Basic physics will sit off to the side and laugh at your antics.  Basic
physics cares not.

-- Jim
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Ah Grasshopper!   Basic physics and real science can be denied if there 
are big bux to be made!  And it helps if you usta be high placed in the 
goobermnt.  (Albore)


All ya have ta do is claim 97% of scientists agree, and bully (and cut 
off goobermnt funds to) anyone who disagrees!   (Albore)


If we wanna have downspout turbines, all we have to do is start a 
goobermnt program and fund it.Majikally, the "science" will appear!

Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
March 14, 2018 at 10:19 PM


My only point was that drip hydro can't even generate that much power!
So unless these static films cost at most pennies, _and_ didn't cut down
_any_
on the solar flux, they're utterly pointless.

Basic physics will not be denied.

-- Jim


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

>
> it would be better to just spend the money on a PV system...an
> inexpensive (less than $100)
> 15-watt PV module would make close to the same amount of energy


My only point was that drip hydro can't even generate that much power!
So unless these static films cost at most pennies, _and_ didn't cut down
_any_
on the solar flux, they're utterly pointless.

Basic physics will not be denied.

-- Jim
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Science!
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On March 14, 2018 7:50:39 PM EDT, OK Don via Mercedes  
wrote:
>I hate to "rain on your parade", but if it sounds too good to be true:
>
>Myth 2: Rooftop / Downspout Hydro
>
>A second common microhydro-electric scheme that we are often asked
>about is
>the viability of putting turbines on a home’s gutter downspouts to
>generate
>electricity from the rain. Some imaginative folks know enough about
>hydro
>to understand that the energy has to come from somewhere (in this case,
>from the forces of nature), and that the height of the roof can
>contribute
>head (pressure) to spin that turbine.
>
>The mistake in this scenario is a simple and honest one of scale. While
>some hydro units have been designed that can function on low head, such
>as
>from the roofline of typical homes (and even lower), a hydro turbine’s
>power output is a product of head *times* flow. And it is a lack of
>significant flow that is the defeating factor in the power equation
>when
>relying on rooftop rainwater collection. The watershed drainages for
>even
>small streams are usually measured in thousands of acres or square
>miles.
>Home roofs, even big ones, are measured in mere thousands of square
>feet.
>
>Let’s look at example calculations for a large house in a very rainy
>place—Seattle, Washington, gets about 40 inches of rain per year, with
>November being the rainiest month at an average of about 6 inches.
>
>Let’s assume that a tall two-story house would give us a 25-foot-high
>roof,
>and thus 25 feet of head. This 6,000-square-foot home has about 3,000
>square feet of rainwater collection area (remember, it’s two stories).
>That
>means that in November, this house would receive about 1,500 cubic feet
>of
>rain, or 11,220 gallons.
>
>If that rainfall came as a constant drizzle all month long, flow from
>the
>roof would be only about 1/4 gallon per minute. Currently there is no
>turbine on the market to work with that flows that low, but using our
>microhydro power formula (see sidebar), we could theoretically get 468
>watt-hours that month.
>
>
>*0.26 gpm × 25 feet ÷ 10 derate = 0.65 watts × 720 hrs./mo. = 468 Wh*
>
>So even if there was a nanohydro plant that could harvest that small
>flow,
>it would result in less than 1/2 kWh of electricity—per month!—and only
>3
>cents worth of electricity in Seattle. It’s a tiny fraction of what
>even an
>energy-efficient, 6,000-square-foot home would use in a day, not to
>mention
>a whole month.
>
>Would the available energy increase if we weren’t dealing with a
>constant
>drizzle? What if, to increase flows to a usable rate, and hopefully
>increase viable energy production, we could hope that all that rain
>came in
>a great deluge of 1 inch per hour (a 100-year storm, in Seattle) over
>six
>hours! At that unlikely amount of rain—practically all at once—flow
>from
>our example roof would be about 31 gpm. That is a more viable flow rate
>for
>hydro turbines on the market and gives us a projected power production
>of
>77.5 watts, but only for those six hours. The total of 465 Wh per month
>is
>about the same energy as the drizzly example above (the minor
>difference is
>from rounding significant digits).
>
>This is when inventive thinkers will begin planning for taller homes,
>or
>additional rain-collecting roof areas, and tanks to hold the water for
>release all at once to increase flow. But even that 11,220 gallons of
>water
>that falls on our 3,000-square-foot roof that month would weigh almost
>47
>tons if stored. Imagine a structure at roof level capable of supporting
>that kind of load just to generate a minuscule amount of energy. And
>remember, these discouraging energy production numbers are for the
>rainiest
>month, in one of America’s rainiest cities. Other months, other places,
>and
>smaller houses can only deliver worse performance.
>
>In this case, it would be better to just spend the money on a PV
>system. To
>put things into perspective, even in Seattle, which gets only an
>average of
>1.7 peak sun-hours per day in November, an inexpensive (less than $100)
>15-watt PV module would make close to the same amount of energy as the
>proposed rooftop hydro system.
>
>https://www.homepower.com/articles/microhydro-power/design-installation/microhydro-myths-misconceptions
>
>On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 6:17 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
>mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey why don't you guys install this and post photos. Sounds really
>cool.
>>
>> On Mar 14, 2018 6:35 PM, "Curley McLain via Mercedes" <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > +! Xactly!   A turbine half the size of a shoebox
>> >
>> > Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>> >> March 14, 2018 at 11:38 AM
>> >> Offsite space? It'd require a turbine at the bottom of the
>downspout...
>> >> -Curt
>> >>
>> >
>> > ___
>> > http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >
>> > To search list archives 

Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[OK Don via Mercedes]

I hate to "rain on your parade", but if it sounds too good to be true:

Myth 2: Rooftop / Downspout Hydro

A second common microhydro-electric scheme that we are often asked about is
the viability of putting turbines on a home’s gutter downspouts to generate
electricity from the rain. Some imaginative folks know enough about hydro
to understand that the energy has to come from somewhere (in this case,
from the forces of nature), and that the height of the roof can contribute
head (pressure) to spin that turbine.

The mistake in this scenario is a simple and honest one of scale. While
some hydro units have been designed that can function on low head, such as
from the roofline of typical homes (and even lower), a hydro turbine’s
power output is a product of head *times* flow. And it is a lack of
significant flow that is the defeating factor in the power equation when
relying on rooftop rainwater collection. The watershed drainages for even
small streams are usually measured in thousands of acres or square miles.
Home roofs, even big ones, are measured in mere thousands of square feet.

Let’s look at example calculations for a large house in a very rainy
place—Seattle, Washington, gets about 40 inches of rain per year, with
November being the rainiest month at an average of about 6 inches.

Let’s assume that a tall two-story house would give us a 25-foot-high roof,
and thus 25 feet of head. This 6,000-square-foot home has about 3,000
square feet of rainwater collection area (remember, it’s two stories). That
means that in November, this house would receive about 1,500 cubic feet of
rain, or 11,220 gallons.

If that rainfall came as a constant drizzle all month long, flow from the
roof would be only about 1/4 gallon per minute. Currently there is no
turbine on the market to work with that flows that low, but using our
microhydro power formula (see sidebar), we could theoretically get 468
watt-hours that month.


*0.26 gpm × 25 feet ÷ 10 derate = 0.65 watts × 720 hrs./mo. = 468 Wh*

So even if there was a nanohydro plant that could harvest that small flow,
it would result in less than 1/2 kWh of electricity—per month!—and only 3
cents worth of electricity in Seattle. It’s a tiny fraction of what even an
energy-efficient, 6,000-square-foot home would use in a day, not to mention
a whole month.

Would the available energy increase if we weren’t dealing with a constant
drizzle? What if, to increase flows to a usable rate, and hopefully
increase viable energy production, we could hope that all that rain came in
a great deluge of 1 inch per hour (a 100-year storm, in Seattle) over six
hours! At that unlikely amount of rain—practically all at once—flow from
our example roof would be about 31 gpm. That is a more viable flow rate for
hydro turbines on the market and gives us a projected power production of
77.5 watts, but only for those six hours. The total of 465 Wh per month is
about the same energy as the drizzly example above (the minor difference is
from rounding significant digits).

This is when inventive thinkers will begin planning for taller homes, or
additional rain-collecting roof areas, and tanks to hold the water for
release all at once to increase flow. But even that 11,220 gallons of water
that falls on our 3,000-square-foot roof that month would weigh almost 47
tons if stored. Imagine a structure at roof level capable of supporting
that kind of load just to generate a minuscule amount of energy. And
remember, these discouraging energy production numbers are for the rainiest
month, in one of America’s rainiest cities. Other months, other places, and
smaller houses can only deliver worse performance.

In this case, it would be better to just spend the money on a PV system. To
put things into perspective, even in Seattle, which gets only an average of
1.7 peak sun-hours per day in November, an inexpensive (less than $100)
15-watt PV module would make close to the same amount of energy as the
proposed rooftop hydro system.

https://www.homepower.com/articles/microhydro-power/design-installation/microhydro-myths-misconceptions

On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 6:17 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Hey why don't you guys install this and post photos. Sounds really cool.
>
> On Mar 14, 2018 6:35 PM, "Curley McLain via Mercedes" <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> wrote:
>
> > +! Xactly!   A turbine half the size of a shoebox
> >
> > Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
> >> March 14, 2018 at 11:38 AM
> >> Offsite space? It'd require a turbine at the bottom of the downspout...
> >> -Curt
> >>
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives 

Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Hey why don't you guys install this and post photos. Sounds really cool.

On Mar 14, 2018 6:35 PM, "Curley McLain via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> +! Xactly!   A turbine half the size of a shoebox
>
> Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>> March 14, 2018 at 11:38 AM
>> Offsite space? It'd require a turbine at the bottom of the downspout...
>> -Curt
>>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

+! Xactly!   A turbine half the size of a shoebox


Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
March 14, 2018 at 11:38 AM
Offsite space? It'd require a turbine at the bottom of the downspout...
-Curt


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

not really.  We are talking a nanogenerator at the bottom of your 
downspouts.  It would still generate more than a roof full of static 
electricity panels.


Did anyone else find it ironic the guy pushing this BS was named SUN?


Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
March 14, 2018 at 11:37 AM
Except that would require offsite space, unlike the roof panels which
would generate power in situ, however miniscule.



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Oh then I alike it.

On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 12:38 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

> Offsite space? It'd require a turbine at the bottom of the downspout...
>
> -Curt
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 14, 2018, 12:37:28 PM EDT, Andrew Strasfogel via
> Mercedes  wrote:
>
>
> Except that would require offsite space, unlike the roof panels which
> would  generate power in situ, however miniscule.
>
> On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 12:20 PM, Jim Cathey 
> wrote:
>
> > Nano-hydro, at best.  Collect the amount of rain that sluices off into a
> > bucket, and assume a water head of 1/2 the vertical dimension of the
> > panel.  That's the top end of the amount of energy you could expect to
> > collect, at 100% efficiency.
> >
> > You'd get more energy if you actually did collect the runoff, and run it
> > through real nano hydro, because then you can use a much higher average
> > height since most solar panels don't touch the ground.
> >
> > -- Jim
> >
> >
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Offsite space? It'd require a turbine at the bottom of the downspout...
-Curt
 

On Wednesday, March 14, 2018, 12:37:28 PM EDT, Andrew Strasfogel via 
Mercedes  wrote:  
 
 Except that would require offsite space, unlike the roof panels which
would  generate power in situ, however miniscule.

On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 12:20 PM, Jim Cathey 
wrote:

> Nano-hydro, at best.  Collect the amount of rain that sluices off into a
> bucket, and assume a water head of 1/2 the vertical dimension of the
> panel.  That's the top end of the amount of energy you could expect to
> collect, at 100% efficiency.
>
> You'd get more energy if you actually did collect the runoff, and run it
> through real nano hydro, because then you can use a much higher average
> height since most solar panels don't touch the ground.
>
> -- Jim
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Except that would require offsite space, unlike the roof panels which
would  generate power in situ, however miniscule.

On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 12:20 PM, Jim Cathey 
wrote:

> Nano-hydro, at best.  Collect the amount of rain that sluices off into a
> bucket, and assume a water head of 1/2 the vertical dimension of the
> panel.  That's the top end of the amount of energy you could expect to
> collect, at 100% efficiency.
>
> You'd get more energy if you actually did collect the runoff, and run it
> through real nano hydro, because then you can use a much higher average
> height since most solar panels don't touch the ground.
>
> -- Jim
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

Nano-hydro, at best.  Collect the amount of rain that sluices off into a
bucket, and assume a water head of 1/2 the vertical dimension of the
panel.  That's the top end of the amount of energy you could expect to
collect, at 100% efficiency.

You'd get more energy if you actually did collect the runoff, and run it
through real nano hydro, because then you can use a much higher average
height since most solar panels don't touch the ground.

-- Jim
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[MBZ] OT: Generating power in the rain -- and at night

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

This is mind boggling.

TECHNOLOGYThis solar panel produces energy in the rainPublished: Wednesday,
March 14, 2018

Developers in China have invented a solar panel that generates electricity
in the rain, potentially cutting down on the hurdles for reliable solar
electricity.

The new device, demonstrated at Soochow University in China, places two
transparent polymer layers atop a solar photovoltaic cell. Raindrops
falling onto the top layers cause friction as they roll off, and the
friction generates a static electric charge.

"This device even provides electricity at night if there is rain," said
Baoquan Sun of Soochow University.

Sun said he expects to roll out a prototype in three to five years.

It's not clear how the raindrop power could stack up against the lost
potential from a sunny day.

"It's really not clear whether this is a big deal or not — I suspect it's
not," said Varun Sivaram, the author of a book on solar power who now works
at the Council on Foreign Relations (Damian Carrington, London *Guardian*
,
March 13). *— AAA*
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