Re: [MBZ] Rebuild (was OM 617 badly sick)
I pretty much nailed it down to what Kaleb suggests: Bad #1 rod bearing, collapsed #1 rings. It all supports the symptoms: Hammering at 1/2 RPM, blue smoke out the tail pipe and oil coming out around #1 prechamber. On 3/17/07, Loren Faeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hans, Did you pull the sump pan to verify there is a bad rod? The prechamber ball is a good suggestion also, but in my experience, in that case there is variation in the knocking as the ball bounces around and it sounds more from the head than from the crank area. At 12:35 AM 3/17/2007, you wrote: Thanks for all the input, fellows. Once I have the motor on the ground, I will investigate and report. Thanks again, On 3/15/07, Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would plan on pistons and sleeves -- there is absolutely no chance that they are good. Crank probably only needs polishing, but if you have had oil starvation, have it magnifluxed for cracks, they CAN break (not fun). If the bearing has spun, the block is toast. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D
Re: [MBZ] Rebuild (was OM 617 badly sick)vacuum pump again
In a message dated 3/17/2007 5:11:59 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I pretty much nailed it down to what Kaleb suggests: Bad #1 rod bearing, collapsed #1 rings. It all supports the symptoms: Hammering at 1/2 RPM, blue smoke out the tail pipe and oil coming out around #1 prechamber. ONE last check you could do. Remove the line from the vacuum pump to the intake and check for copious amounts of oil being pumped into the intake manifold from a damaged vacuum pump. I know you said it still makes vacuum but it could still be your problem. the oil would pre ignite and give off with a knocking sound and blue smoke. Good luck, Jim Friesen Phoenix AZ 79 300SD, 264 K miles 98 ML 320, 147 K miles ** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
Re: [MBZ] Rebuild (was OM 617 badly sick)vacuum pump again
The vacuum pump on his car wont pump oil into the intake, only the older diaphram versions vent to the intake. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 3/17/2007 5:11:59 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I pretty much nailed it down to what Kaleb suggests: Bad #1 rod bearing, collapsed #1 rings. It all supports the symptoms: Hammering at 1/2 RPM, blue smoke out the tail pipe and oil coming out around #1 prechamber. ONE last check you could do. Remove the line from the vacuum pump to the intake and check for copious amounts of oil being pumped into the intake manifold from a damaged vacuum pump. I know you said it still makes vacuum but it could still be your problem. the oil would pre ignite and give off with a knocking sound and blue smoke. Good luck, Jim Friesen Phoenix AZ 79 300SD, 264 K miles 98 ML 320, 147 K miles ** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK (2x) 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Rebuild (was OM 617 badly sick)
Thanks for all the input, fellows. Once I have the motor on the ground, I will investigate and report. Thanks again, On 3/15/07, Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would plan on pistons and sleeves -- there is absolutely no chance that they are good. Crank probably only needs polishing, but if you have had oil starvation, have it magnifluxed for cracks, they CAN break (not fun). If the bearing has spun, the block is toast. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D
Re: [MBZ] Rebuild (was OM 617 badly sick)
Hans, Did you pull the sump pan to verify there is a bad rod? The prechamber ball is a good suggestion also, but in my experience, in that case there is variation in the knocking as the ball bounces around and it sounds more from the head than from the crank area. At 12:35 AM 3/17/2007, you wrote: Thanks for all the input, fellows. Once I have the motor on the ground, I will investigate and report. Thanks again, On 3/15/07, Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would plan on pistons and sleeves -- there is absolutely no chance that they are good. Crank probably only needs polishing, but if you have had oil starvation, have it magnifluxed for cracks, they CAN break (not fun). If the bearing has spun, the block is toast. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth
[MBZ] Rebuild (was OM 617 badly sick)
I am kicking this around: rebuilding the sickly OM 617 at 175k miles. Taking that the rod bearing went and nothing broke, I think following work should give me an engine good for a long time to come. 1. grind the crank for new bearings (0.25mm oversize) all around 2. new rings (and sleeves ?) 3. new valve guides 4. new prechamber seal rings and injector seals 5. new injector nozzles (?) 6. new timing chain and sprockets That's already $ 1,000 in parts. What else is needed? What I don't know is where the blue smoke comes from. It is not blow-by since I had the turbo intake boot from the air cleaner off when I ran it yesterday. On 3/15/07, Hans Neureiter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bearings are cheap. $ 75 for a rod set, $ 55 for an oversize (0.25mm) set. Even if the crank needs to be ground it seems to be economical. The thing becomes an issue when addressing the blow-by; rings, valve guides, injectors, and on. On 3/14/07, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excessive blow-by is not evident. The turbo is slightly oily, but the shaft is moving a little in radial direction. I think that's OK. It's axial motion that is bad. I figured a basic rebuild ... runs ~ $ 800 in parts. So, I wonder how much a single bearing costs? If the crank rod journal (say) is not badly damaged, and they _are_ very hard, harder than Detroit iron, perhaps it would be worth doing a bit of peephole surgery through the oil pan? A used #2-4 bearing off of some other dead engine might be an interesting option too. If the crank is badly scored, or the rod is damaged, then forget it. It's the sort of thing I might try. If it's easy enough to do it's not like you're talking about any kind of serious investment, and I don't see how you're going to make anything _worse_. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D
Re: [MBZ] Rebuild (was OM 617 badly sick)
1. grind the crank for new bearings (0.25mm oversize) all around I don't know about the rest of your to do list, but IIRC these cranks are nitrided and don't go bad unless they are totally wiped out. You are not dealing with 'merican iron. Rick Knoble '85 300 CD '87 190 DT
Re: [MBZ] Rebuild (was OM 617 badly sick)
What I don't know is where the blue smoke comes from. It is not blow-by since I had the turbo intake boot from the air cleaner off when I ran it yesterday. I forget, was the onset of blue smoke sudden? Blowby works both ways, in that if gases are leaking out then oil can be leaking in. I thought that was the operative mechanism. But I don't see a sudden ring failure causing the noises of which you speak. I think there's still a mystery here to be solved. More information is required. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Rebuild (was OM 617 badly sick)
That blue smoke came with the knocking. Very sudden. I have the idea that it has something to do with the leak at the prechambers and that would lead to collapsed rings at #'s 1 2. But why, at the same token, is it starting easy and idling stady, barely shaking the engine? I know, a compression test is in order and might reveal the mistery. On 3/15/07, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I don't know is where the blue smoke comes from. It is not blow-by since I had the turbo intake boot from the air cleaner off when I ran it yesterday. I forget, was the onset of blue smoke sudden? Blowby works both ways, in that if gases are leaking out then oil can be leaking in. I thought that was the operative mechanism. But I don't see a sudden ring failure causing the noises of which you speak. I think there's still a mystery here to be solved. More information is required. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D
Re: [MBZ] Rebuild (was OM 617 badly sick)
I dealt before with nitrated cranks (Peugeot) and found that they go out of round enough to ruin a new bearing in short time. IIRC the tolerance is +/- 0.0005. On 3/15/07, Rick Knoble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. grind the crank for new bearings (0.25mm oversize) all around I don't know about the rest of your to do list, but IIRC these cranks are nitrided and don't go bad unless they are totally wiped out. You are not dealing with 'merican iron. Rick Knoble '85 300 CD '87 190 DT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D
Re: [MBZ] Rebuild (was OM 617 badly sick)
I would plan on pistons and sleeves -- there is absolutely no chance that they are good. Crank probably only needs polishing, but if you have had oil starvation, have it magnifluxed for cracks, they CAN break (not fun). If the bearing has spun, the block is toast. Peter
