Re: [MBZ] Tie rod end removal
On 2020-12-23 18:16, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: Congrats! So the old rod end still had a pinch sleeve clamping it? I think so, I'll have to look for it in the daylight. If the new one had come with sleeve and nut like the Moog does, I would have caught on sooner. I thought the slotted, tapered end didn't look like what was on the car, but really didn't pay much attention to the new one, I was already trying to get the old one off when the new one got here. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tie rod end removal
Congrats! So the old rod end still had a pinch sleeve clamping it? - Max Charleston SC On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 6:41 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > The deed is done. > I cut a notch in the rod end to find the end of the rod, and for a few > days I filled the rod end cavity with ATF and occasionally hit it with a > torch until I could hear the ATF boiling. Today it got up to 50 degrees > and I figured it was my last chance to not be working in snow. After > another attempt to break it loose, I cut the rod end off flush with the > end of the rod, jammed a socket on it and started rattling on it with an > air wrench. > Then a more powerful air wrench finally shook it loose. > > The rod end is slotted at the end, and apparently that lets salt water > in to do its worse. Old one was so rusty I didn't notice it was slotted > like the new one until after I got it off. > > Oops, my Delphi rod end didn't come with a pinch sleeve that goes over > the slotted part. And there was probably a sleeve on the original one, > like comes with the Moog in the attached picture... > > (that pinch sleeve might be the whole reason why I couldn't unscrew the > thing. Oh, the troubles you cause yourself when you don't consult the > FSM to see how things are held together) > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tie rod end removal
The deed is done. I cut a notch in the rod end to find the end of the rod, and for a few days I filled the rod end cavity with ATF and occasionally hit it with a torch until I could hear the ATF boiling. Today it got up to 50 degrees and I figured it was my last chance to not be working in snow. After another attempt to break it loose, I cut the rod end off flush with the end of the rod, jammed a socket on it and started rattling on it with an air wrench. Then a more powerful air wrench finally shook it loose. The rod end is slotted at the end, and apparently that lets salt water in to do its worse. Old one was so rusty I didn't notice it was slotted like the new one until after I got it off. Oops, my Delphi rod end didn't come with a pinch sleeve that goes over the slotted part. And there was probably a sleeve on the original one, like comes with the Moog in the attached picture... (that pinch sleeve might be the whole reason why I couldn't unscrew the thing. Oh, the troubles you cause yourself when you don't consult the FSM to see how things are held together) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tie rod end removal
I like to cycle heat and cold on a rusted part. Mapp torch, then spritzer with ice water. Repeat three or four times. Maybe the last time it's hot, hold a birthday candle to the threads. Rick ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tie rod end removal
Can you post a photo or two so that we can see what you are up against? That might help with suggestions. RB On 14/12/2020 12:51 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote: The rod end is rusted onto the tie rod and won't unscrew, at least not to the holding power of a 15mm open end wrench on the rod, or a 10" vice grip. My baby pipe wrench, with jaws thin enough to put on the little bit of rod that's exposed, had less grip than the vice grips. I can try heating it, but the rubber bellows over the inner rod end puts a limit on that. Any brilliant ideas for getting the rod end off the rod? As I was typing this, I wondered if the wrench flats were wide enough for two 15mm open ends. Will try that next, along with a bit of heat. Wish I had some Kroil handy instead of this Liquid Wrench I soaked it in yesterday. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tie rod end removal
If you've got the time to mess with it, sounds like you can try the wet washcloths and acetylene torch, and then if you melt the bellows, you get the kit to replace that. If the blue wrench works, you can install your new tie rod end, and if the blue wrench doesn't break the rust free, you buy the inner rod end and boot and replace the whole works. Max Dillon Charleston SC Dec 14, 2020 4:52:11 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes : > > My options are pretty much down to: > Keep pouring penetrating oil on it, warming it with a heat gun, and praying. > > Try to break it off with a nut splitter (not intended for nuts that are > inches long). > > Buy the $86 tool from MAC or Snappy and praying it does the job. (a lot of > money to pay for a one of a kind job) > https://shop.snapon.com/product/Tie-Rod-Adjusting-Tools/Tie-Rod-Adjusting-Wrench/YA2223 > > Buy an inner rod end and boot, and replace everything, thereby avoiding > taking the old parts apart. > > Cut the rod end body off, put a 21mm deep well on it, and try to rattle > wrench it while holding the rod with Vice Grips. > > Acetylene and wet washcloths. The problem with that is getting enough wetted > area on the very short rod. > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tie rod end removal
My options are pretty much down to: Keep pouring penetrating oil on it, warming it with a heat gun, and praying. Try to break it off with a nut splitter (not intended for nuts that are inches long). Buy the $86 tool from MAC or Snappy and praying it does the job. (a lot of money to pay for a one of a kind job) https://shop.snapon.com/product/Tie-Rod-Adjusting-Tools/Tie-Rod-Adjusting-Wrench/YA2223 Buy an inner rod end and boot, and replace everything, thereby avoiding taking the old parts apart. Cut the rod end body off, put a 21mm deep well on it, and try to rattle wrench it while holding the rod with Vice Grips. Acetylene and wet washcloths. The problem with that is getting enough wetted area on the very short rod. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tie rod end removal
Presuming I understand your problem, I offer this work around. Jack up and support the front of car, remove wheel for access [if memory serves, rod end that came apart was RH?] Turn steering wheel to the extreme travel limit to the broken side. then push the rubber boot back along the tie rod to collapse it as much as possible, secure it in place with a tie wrap around the tie rod to keep it from extending on its own. [you may need to insert a small screwdriver at the rod end of the boot and spray some lube on the rubber to get it to slide back] Having gained as much distance from the area to be heated as possible, find a piece of sheet metal [anything handy will do] and make a heat shield of it by cutting a slot that will slide over the tie rod, think the top of a gallon coffee can with a slot cut in it. Then... heat the offending, rusted, locked on tie rod end with a torch to break the rust bond and remove it. As much as possible, keep the torch flame directed away from the rubber boot. Good luck ! On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 1:44 PM OK Don via Mercedes wrote: > Back in the day of Rusty, it was reasonable to buy the whole tie rod with > ends already installed. I did that for W115 and W107 cars ... > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 12:52 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > The rod end is rusted onto the tie rod and won't unscrew, at least not > > to the holding power of a 15mm open end wrench on the rod, or a 10" vice > > grip. My baby pipe wrench, with jaws thin enough to put on the little > > bit of rod that's exposed, had less grip than the vice grips. > > > > I can try heating it, but the rubber bellows over the inner rod end puts > > a limit on that. > > > > Any brilliant ideas for getting the rod end off the rod? > > As I was typing this, I wondered if the wrench flats were wide enough > > for two 15mm open ends. > > Will try that next, along with a bit of heat. > > Wish I had some Kroil handy instead of this Liquid Wrench I soaked it in > > yesterday. > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > -- > OK Don > > "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to > pause and reflect." Mark Twain > > “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.” > Wernher > Von Braun > 2013 F150, 18 mpg > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tie rod end removal
Don, I think Mitch's car has rack and pinion, not recirculating ball, so inner end of the rod is different. Mitch, I like the water soaked rag idea, I've used that several times when brazing copper tubing and didn't want to destroy the seals in the valve just inches away from the joint. Heat the rusty joint red hot at the far end, the water soaked rag will protect the bellows end. I'd position the rag so mostly on the metal part of the rod near the bellows, and keep it dripping wet if possible. Max Dillon Charleston SC Dec 14, 2020 3:44:06 PM OK Don via Mercedes : > Back in the day of Rusty, it was reasonable to buy the whole tie rod with > ends already installed. I did that for W115 and W107 cars ... > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 12:52 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> The rod end is rusted onto the tie rod and won't unscrew, at least not >> to the holding power of a 15mm open end wrench on the rod, or a 10" vice >> grip. My baby pipe wrench, with jaws thin enough to put on the little >> bit of rod that's exposed, had less grip than the vice grips. >> >> I can try heating it, but the rubber bellows over the inner rod end puts >> a limit on that. >> >> Any brilliant ideas for getting the rod end off the rod? >> As I was typing this, I wondered if the wrench flats were wide enough >> for two 15mm open ends. >> Will try that next, along with a bit of heat. >> Wish I had some Kroil handy instead of this Liquid Wrench I soaked it in >> yesterday. >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > > -- > OK Don > > "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to > pause and reflect." Mark Twain > > “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.” Wernher > Von Braun > 2013 F150, 18 mpg > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tie rod end removal
This is in an ML, which has a little different configuration as it’s rack and pinion, not recirculating ball/Pitman arm. The tie rod is two pieces, with the ball joint and threaded piece one part, and another threaded rod that connects inside the steering rack, how exactly I forget. For that matter, the part of the rod in the steering rack might not be serviceable separately, I don’t recall. The tie rod itself is pretty cheap in the aftermarket, like $25 or thereabouts. With it disconnected from the steering rack, you can remove and replace the seal (bellows) on the rack without a lot of difficulty. It’s a little tight, but can be done. What you can’t do on the steering rack without a major undertaking, is replace the steering rack mounts, which are common failure item by now, unfortunately. The rack is installed tightly between the frame and drive train, and is near impossible to get to. I think that’s a four hour flat rate job. -D > On Dec 14, 2020, at 2:29 PM, OK Don via Mercedes > wrote: > > Back in the day of Rusty, it was reasonable to buy the whole tie rod with > ends already installed. I did that for W115 and W107 cars ... > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 12:52 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> The rod end is rusted onto the tie rod and won't unscrew, at least not >> to the holding power of a 15mm open end wrench on the rod, or a 10" vice >> grip. My baby pipe wrench, with jaws thin enough to put on the little >> bit of rod that's exposed, had less grip than the vice grips. >> >> I can try heating it, but the rubber bellows over the inner rod end puts >> a limit on that. >> >> Any brilliant ideas for getting the rod end off the rod? >> As I was typing this, I wondered if the wrench flats were wide enough >> for two 15mm open ends. >> Will try that next, along with a bit of heat. >> Wish I had some Kroil handy instead of this Liquid Wrench I soaked it in >> yesterday. >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > > -- > OK Don > > "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to > pause and reflect." Mark Twain > > “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.” Wernher > Von Braun > 2013 F150, 18 mpg > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tie rod end removal
Back in the day of Rusty, it was reasonable to buy the whole tie rod with ends already installed. I did that for W115 and W107 cars ... On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 12:52 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > The rod end is rusted onto the tie rod and won't unscrew, at least not > to the holding power of a 15mm open end wrench on the rod, or a 10" vice > grip. My baby pipe wrench, with jaws thin enough to put on the little > bit of rod that's exposed, had less grip than the vice grips. > > I can try heating it, but the rubber bellows over the inner rod end puts > a limit on that. > > Any brilliant ideas for getting the rod end off the rod? > As I was typing this, I wondered if the wrench flats were wide enough > for two 15mm open ends. > Will try that next, along with a bit of heat. > Wish I had some Kroil handy instead of this Liquid Wrench I soaked it in > yesterday. > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > -- OK Don "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.” Wernher Von Braun 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tie rod end removal
The boot that goes on the steering rack is sold by the dealer in a kit form with a tube of grease and a new clamp pretty cheaply, like under $20. I know because one of mine was torn and I replaced it along with the tie rod because the ball joint seal on the tie rod was bad, too. -D > On Dec 14, 2020, at 1:51 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes > wrote: > > The rod end is rusted onto the tie rod and won't unscrew, at least not to the > holding power of a 15mm open end wrench on the rod, or a 10" vice grip. My > baby pipe wrench, with jaws thin enough to put on the little bit of rod > that's exposed, had less grip than the vice grips. > > I can try heating it, but the rubber bellows over the inner rod end puts a > limit on that. > > Any brilliant ideas for getting the rod end off the rod? > As I was typing this, I wondered if the wrench flats were wide enough for two > 15mm open ends. > Will try that next, along with a bit of heat. > Wish I had some Kroil handy instead of this Liquid Wrench I soaked it in > yesterday. > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tie rod end removal
Mitch Haley via Mercedes writes: > Wish I had some Kroil handy instead of this Liquid Wrench I soaked it > in yesterday. If you have acetone, try mixing up a little with some ATF and use that as a penetrant. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tie rod end removal
Soak a rag in ice water and wrap it around the tie rod just ahead of the rubber boot on the rack to act as a heat sink. You might be able to get more heat into the tie rod end that way. Also, once it's hot, apply candle wax (birthday candle) to the threads and capillary action with wick it into the rusted part. Rick ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Tie rod end removal
The rod end is rusted onto the tie rod and won't unscrew, at least not to the holding power of a 15mm open end wrench on the rod, or a 10" vice grip. My baby pipe wrench, with jaws thin enough to put on the little bit of rod that's exposed, had less grip than the vice grips. I can try heating it, but the rubber bellows over the inner rod end puts a limit on that. Any brilliant ideas for getting the rod end off the rod? As I was typing this, I wondered if the wrench flats were wide enough for two 15mm open ends. Will try that next, along with a bit of heat. Wish I had some Kroil handy instead of this Liquid Wrench I soaked it in yesterday. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
