Re: [MBZ] Tools and Quality
I think that old Mongomery Ward tools are pretty good. My dad had a set of combination wrenches and a couple of other items from them, probably circa 1965 or so, maybe earlier. The look and feel good, and work well, and none of them has broken yet. LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Howdy -- We talked about this issue a week or so ago - we basically said you get what you pay for - I got a surprise recently. I bought a 3 draw unit for my toolchest that fits between the top box and bottom box - btw, I highly recommend this method of adding more space. It is very handy and doesn't require anymore footprint. Anyway, the original toolchest is one I bought in 1968 from Montgomery Wards when I worked as a VW/Porsche mechanics apprentice way back then -- the new 3 drawer unit is Craftsman -- and the quality is much lower on the Craftsman part. So far, I have noticed the drawer slides being cranky on the Sears piece - the drawer must be lined up perfectly to go into the housing. Also, the finish is not as good as the almost 40 years old tool chest. -- 1983 300D 1966 230 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tools and Quality
LWB250 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I just cut about 35% off my water bill by going to a front loading washing machine last month. Which one did you buy? I have considered this but the big front-loaders have gotten so large over the past few years they look like they'd use as much water as my top loader. The normal front loaders that you used to be standard (I think about 3.2 cubic feet capacity) look like toys now in comparison to what Bosch, LG, and Whirlpool are selling. Do the big front-loaders save a lot of water compared to a top loader? It'd take quite a lot of savings to cover their hefty price tags. -- 1983 300D 1966 230 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tools and Quality
Mine was a GE model (I can give you the number if you're really interested) that retailed around $700. I think it has a 3.5 cubic foot capacity, which is more than adequate for us. According to the specs, it uses around 15 gallons of water per cycle, compared with as much as 45 gallons for my old maytag top loader. There was no way I was paying +$1000 for a washing machine, and this one fit my needs without the big price tag. The only differences I could find between it and the expensive machines was the number of cycles and slightly more capacity. I did go with the pedestal, which I'm not sure was worth it. It does raise it up to a level where you don't have to stoop over to get stuff in and out, but for storage I have yet to find it to be that helpful. Dan --- Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which one did you buy? I have considered this but the big front-loaders have gotten so large over the past few years they look like they'd use as much water as my top loader. The normal front loaders that you used to be standard (I think about 3.2 cubic feet capacity) look like toys now in comparison to what Bosch, LG, and Whirlpool are selling. Do the big front-loaders save a lot of water compared to a top loader? It'd take quite a lot of savings to cover their hefty price tags. -- 1983 300D 1966 230 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tools and Quality
Man, that gives me flashbacks of the statistics class I took to get my bachelor's degree recently. Is the bathtub curve the bell curve? Brian You've just read about all I remember of statistics Tom wrote: Some items like light bulbs follow a very predictable curve. Take a 1000 hour light bulb, for example. You'll have a few fail early on, much fewer fail over time but then when your 1000 hour light bulbs start reaching 1000 hours, they start dropping out fast. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tools and Quality
Zoltan Finks wrote: Man, that gives me flashbacks of the statistics class I took to get my bachelor's degree recently. Is the bathtub curve the bell curve? More like the antithesis of the bell curve. A 'normal distribution' bell curve peaks at the mean and drops off on both sides. The 'bathtub' as he describes it, has peaks on both ends and a wide trough in the middle. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tools and Quality
My parents replaced their 35 year old refridgerator last year and have been stunned by the savings. Interestingly it seems like the new fridge cycles more often but has a shorter cycle. Definately uses like 50% of the power... On waterheaters I'd imagine the new ones are MUCH better insulated than even 10 years ago and more than that ago fuggetaboutit. Remember when people were setting their houses on fire wrapping hotwater heaters in insulation? Yay forced hot water heat. Turn on the tap, the furnace fires up and hot water is there... Of course it means I'll burn a tank of oil in the summer but I'm okay with that. -Curt Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 19:37:36 -0700 (PDT) From: LWB250 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Tools and Quality To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I guess I look at the difference in cost amortized over the life of the appliance. That being considered, you're talking about less than $10/year for the difference, which isn't really significant in my mind. That also doesn't factor in the cost savings in energy efficiency. While I can't imagine water heater technology has gotten to the point of really major gains in efficiency over the last 10 years, with other appliances it is definitely a consideration. The house is just about 10-1/2 years old, so some of the appliances are ready to be turned. I just cut about 35% off my water bill by going to a front loading washing machine last month. I can't begin to imagine what a difference it will make when we replace our almost 15 year old side by side refrigerator in a couple of months Dan (reducing my carbon footprint) - Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Tools and Quality
Howdy -- We talked about this issue a week or so ago - we basically said you get what you pay for - I got a surprise recently. I bought a 3 draw unit for my toolchest that fits between the top box and bottom box - btw, I highly recommend this method of adding more space. It is very handy and doesn't require anymore footprint. Anyway, the original toolchest is one I bought in 1968 from Montgomery Wards when I worked as a VW/Porsche mechanics apprentice way back then -- the new 3 drawer unit is Craftsman -- and the quality is much lower on the Craftsman part. So far, I have noticed the drawer slides being cranky on the Sears piece - the drawer must be lined up perfectly to go into the housing. Also, the finish is not as good as the almost 40 years old tool chest. Oh well, in the overall scheme of things it's not a big deal. ;-) Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tools and Quality
Shoot, too bad the quality is not as good. On the subject, I realized last night that the Durabilt tools I got for my wedding from Target have a lifetime warranty. This is the tool set from which the socket broke on an oil pan drain plug. Too bad a guest at our house threw the socket in the trashcan. I would have saved it if I was aware of the warranty. Brian ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tools and Quality
A lot of tools have a lifetime warranty, but most don't realize how these work. When a company sets up a warranty, they factor the cost of replacements, plus additional profit. They add additional profit because like it or not, the company will make money on the warranty. And because of this, a tool or piece of equipment with a long term warranty costs more than the exact same quality tool with a lesser warrantee the cost difference is not justified by just the warranty. Sears, for example, offered still offers a lifetime warranty on their Craftsman line. But the warranty does not indicate that their product is any better than anyone else's tools. The warranty just states that they will replace the tool when / if it breaks. And if you compare the price of Craftsman tools to other name brands, it soon becomes apparent that you are paying a lot for the name, and for the warranty. That said, I own a lot of Craftsman tools but I've also broken a lot of Craftsman tools. But I also have a set of no name wrenches that refuse to die. If I were to buy my tools all over again, I'd buy the Kolbalt line offered by Lowes. They also happen to offer a lifetime warranty but I'd buy them for the finish. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zoltan Finks Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 5:15 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Tools and Quality Shoot, too bad the quality is not as good. On the subject, I realized last night that the Durabilt tools I got for my wedding from Target have a lifetime warranty. This is the tool set from which the socket broke on an oil pan drain plug. Too bad a guest at our house threw the socket in the trashcan. I would have saved it if I was aware of the warranty. Brian ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tools and Quality
Know what the difference is between the 10 yr guarantee water heater and the 5 yr guarantee water heater? About $100, or whatever -- they are the same unit with a longer guarantee. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tools and Quality
Having just purchased and installed a water heater last weekend, I would beg to differ with you on that Yes, the warranty does work out to about $10/year as you move up the scale, however, there are also differences in construction and components as well. For instance, the 6 year warranty heater I considered had plain copper elements. The 12 year warranty heater ($70 more) had stainless steel. It also had a solid state controller that monitors usage and learns the usage patterns, using them to turn down the heater when there is no demand expected (like in the middle of the night.) I have no idea what the value of the additional items is from a manufacturing standpoint, suffice to say that they are probably worth the difference. Dan --- Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Know what the difference is between the 10 yr guarantee water heater and the 5 yr guarantee water heater? About $100, or whatever -- they are the same unit with a longer guarantee. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tools and Quality
Ya, consumer reports sawed a bunch in half a year back or so. They said the 12 year ones were seriously different inside. Better quality, better durability, better engineering. In fact price versus what you got was way better. But I do recall they said the 3 versus the 5 year ones were the same. This did not stop my 12 year GE one from leaking in the first six months. On the other hand they replaced it at no costs for anything that afternoon. On Aug 3, 2007, at 6:15 PM, LWB250 wrote: Having just purchased and installed a water heater last weekend, I would beg to differ with you on that Yes, the warranty does work out to about $10/year as you move up the scale, however, there are also differences in construction and components as well. For instance, the 6 year warranty heater I considered had plain copper elements. The 12 year warranty heater ($70 more) had stainless steel. It also had a solid state controller that monitors usage and learns the usage patterns, using them to turn down the heater when there is no demand expected (like in the middle of the night.) I have no idea what the value of the additional items is from a manufacturing standpoint, suffice to say that they are probably worth the difference. Dan John 1983 300TDt 386k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac) 1990's 300TDt 200k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac) 1993 500SEL 192k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tools and Quality
I guess I look at the difference in cost amortized over the life of the appliance. That being considered, you're talking about less than $10/year for the difference, which isn't really significant in my mind. That also doesn't factor in the cost savings in energy efficiency. While I can't imagine water heater technology has gotten to the point of really major gains in efficiency over the last 10 years, with other appliances it is definitely a consideration. The house is just about 10-1/2 years old, so some of the appliances are ready to be turned. I just cut about 35% off my water bill by going to a front loading washing machine last month. I can't begin to imagine what a difference it will make when we replace our almost 15 year old side by side refrigerator in a couple of months Dan (reducing my carbon footprint) --- John M McIntosh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ya, consumer reports sawed a bunch in half a year back or so. They said the 12 year ones were seriously different inside. Better quality, better durability, better engineering. In fact price versus what you got was way better. But I do recall they said the 3 versus the 5 year ones were the same. This did not stop my 12 year GE one from leaking in the first six months. On the other hand they replaced it at no costs for anything that afternoon. Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tools and Quality
On Aug 3, 2007, at 7:37 PM, LWB250 wrote: That also doesn't factor in the cost savings in energy efficiency. While I can't imagine water heater technology has gotten to the point of really major gains in efficiency over the last 10 years, with other appliances it is definitely a consideration. Actually they pointed out the insulation was better on the 12 year ones, thus decreasing the carbon footprint. John 1983 300TDt 386k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac) 1990's 300TDt 200k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac) 1993 500SEL 193k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tools and Quality
Good info, I am corrected. My experience was of some years ago, working with some manufacturers -- they just sold a longer warranty on the same unit, gaming on how long they would last. I guess they are either smarter now, or more competitive. Good info to know. My experience with dishwashers some years ago was that the $500 KitchenAid had exactly the same guts as the $200 special, except the timer had more bumps on it to activate more cycles. All built in the same factory of mostly the same bits. All lasted about the same time too. Not sure now. --R LWB250 wrote: Having just purchased and installed a water heater last weekend, I would beg to differ with you on that Yes, the warranty does work out to about $10/year as you move up the scale, however, there are also differences in construction and components as well. For instance, the 6 year warranty heater I considered had plain copper elements. The 12 year warranty heater ($70 more) had stainless steel. It also had a solid state controller that monitors usage and learns the usage patterns, using them to turn down the heater when there is no demand expected (like in the middle of the night.) I have no idea what the value of the additional items is from a manufacturing standpoint, suffice to say that they are probably worth the difference. Dan --- Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Know what the difference is between the 10 yr guarantee water heater and the 5 yr guarantee water heater? About $100, or whatever -- they are the same unit with a longer guarantee. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tools and Quality
Everything manufactured has a MTBF rating the rating stands for Mean Time Between Failure or the expected point at which 1/2 of the units have failed. I'd expect the 12 year water heater to be manufactured differently since it's life expectancy is so much different from the 3 5 year units. It also does not surprise me that the 3 5 year units are built the same and they probably have the same MTBF. And the real difference between the two? The warrantee - my point earlier. As far as the 6 month failure is concerned - all manufactured goods have some early life failure that water heater was likely a classic example. Failures follow a predictable curve called a bathtub curve. You will have some failures right away, followed by a period of low, random failures. Then the failures will increase may level out again at a higher rate or may continue to climb. Somewhere after this initial climb is the MTBF point. Some items like light bulbs follow a very predictable curve. Take a 1000 hour light bulb, for example. You'll have a few fail early on, much fewer fail over time but then when your 1000 hour light bulbs start reaching 1000 hours, they start dropping out fast. Other seemingly simple items like your Mercedes alternator are really made of components, each with its own MTBF rating. The front bearing, rear bearing, regulator, rotor, stator diode block each have their own MTBF. I've had a couple of Mercedes alternators rebuilt by a local shop, only to have a front or rear bearing fail later. Why? Because the shop only repaired what was broken, the diode block and / or regulator. But the bearings were not replaced even though they were well into their service life and they reached their end of life failed. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John M McIntosh Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 8:34 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Tools and Quality Ya, consumer reports sawed a bunch in half a year back or so. They said the 12 year ones were seriously different inside. Better quality, better durability, better engineering. In fact price versus what you got was way better. But I do recall they said the 3 versus the 5 year ones were the same. This did not stop my 12 year GE one from leaking in the first six months. On the other hand they replaced it at no costs for anything that afternoon. On Aug 3, 2007, at 6:15 PM, LWB250 wrote: Having just purchased and installed a water heater last weekend, I would beg to differ with you on that Yes, the warranty does work out to about $10/year as you move up the scale, however, there are also differences in construction and components as well. For instance, the 6 year warranty heater I considered had plain copper elements. The 12 year warranty heater ($70 more) had stainless steel. It also had a solid state controller that monitors usage and learns the usage patterns, using them to turn down the heater when there is no demand expected (like in the middle of the night.) I have no idea what the value of the additional items is from a manufacturing standpoint, suffice to say that they are probably worth the difference. Dan John 1983 300TDt 386k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac) 1990's 300TDt 200k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac) 1993 500SEL 192k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
