Re: [MBZ] Warmists and global warming

[Rich Thomas]

Well the climate scientists should run that scenario in their models, 
account for the occasional (which of late seems to be more frequent than 
occasional) volcano eruptions injecting huge amounts of stuff in the 
atmosphere.  And old Mr. Sun too, don't forget old Mr. Sun has been 
acting up a bit lately too (and other planets appear to be wait for 
it warming too!).  Unfortunately the technology/science just ain't 
there yet.


The problem here is not whether or not the premise is true or false; 
rather, it is whether the modeling and data are sufficiently accurate to 
actually make the projections on which all the hoohah is based on.  
Factor in the big money involved for "research" and political actions, 
and the recent revelations about the process for all these 
pronouncements, and the whole thing becomes a bit dubious to many people 
(many of whom are smart enough and sufficiently knowledgeable to opine 
on the physics of the matter).  I could probably dig into it all and 
educate myself sufficiently to make some sort of reasoned judgment, but 
why bother when the surrounding political aspects make it minimally 
interesting to do so as all that seems to be the overriding aspect 
(surprise!).  There might be something to it all, but taking away my 
truck while the rest of the world wants them too (and air conditioning 
and washing machines!) just ain't gonna do one bit of good.  Go work on 
the Chinese and the Indians, then get back to me after you get them 
organized.  (Hint:  They will say "tink you berry mooch" and go about 
their business.)


But if you are a Warmist, then that is your right, and you can 
hand-wring over it all you want.   You can even send money to Algore if 
you want.  Sorta like debating which religion is "better" or "true" 
based on various observations about human behavior and nature and such.  
Although I do like the idea of becoming a "climate expert" and flying 
off here and there in first class, staying at some nice hotels, and 
eating some good food and drinking some good wine all the while telling 
the "rich" to send me some mo' money.  I should get back in the 
consulting business...


--R

On 12/1/11 4:43 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

So if mankind disappeared from the planet overnight along with all our
greenhouse gas emitting activities, are you saying the polar ice caps would
continue to melt, ocean levels would continue to rise, and average
temperatures would continue their inexorable upward momentum for the next
50 to 100 years because of Mt. Pinatubo and other natural disasters?


On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Dieselhead<126die...@gmail.com>  wrote:


I heard the stats for Kilauea once.  I wish I could remember, but is an
incredible amount.  When Mt. Penetubo blew, I heard that stats on that one.
  I think it was something like in one day, that volcano emitted more
sulphur, ash, lead, etc. (you pick the pollutant) than the total emissions
of every vehicle ever made.





   Volcan Tungurahua in Ecuador is erupting again.  We stayed

   in Banos (actually up on the slope of the volcano, at Luna
   Runtun, at the base of the volcano, at Christmas 2 years
   ago.  It was venting a bit when we were there.  Banos and
   other towns in the vicinity are being evacuated.  It is a
   beautiful area, with lots of excitement!  The people there
   seem to roll with it, even though it periodically wipes out
   their farms and towns.

   (The) "eruption of Tungurahua volcano created large clouds
   of gas and ash above the summit and it's directed towards
   the southeast and the west, near city of Banos. Ash cloud up
   to 4 kilometers in the sky and pyroclastic flows
   approximately one kilometer down the volcano flank could be
   seen on Tuesday."


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Re: [MBZ] Warmists and global warming

[andrew strasfogel]

The only climate "experts" who fly first class work for "Exxon".

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Rich Thomas <
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:

> Well the climate scientists should run that scenario in their models,
> account for the occasional (which of late seems to be more frequent than
> occasional) volcano eruptions injecting huge amounts of stuff in the
> atmosphere.  And old Mr. Sun too, don't forget old Mr. Sun has been acting
> up a bit lately too (and other planets appear to be wait for it
> warming too!).  Unfortunately the technology/science just ain't there yet.
>
> The problem here is not whether or not the premise is true or false;
> rather, it is whether the modeling and data are sufficiently accurate to
> actually make the projections on which all the hoohah is based on.  Factor
> in the big money involved for "research" and political actions, and the
> recent revelations about the process for all these pronouncements, and the
> whole thing becomes a bit dubious to many people (many of whom are smart
> enough and sufficiently knowledgeable to opine on the physics of the
> matter).  I could probably dig into it all and educate myself sufficiently
> to make some sort of reasoned judgment, but why bother when the surrounding
> political aspects make it minimally interesting to do so as all that seems
> to be the overriding aspect (surprise!).  There might be something to it
> all, but taking away my truck while the rest of the world wants them too
> (and air conditioning and washing machines!) just ain't gonna do one bit of
> good.  Go work on the Chinese and the Indians, then get back to me after
> you get them organized.  (Hint:  They will say "tink you berry mooch" and
> go about their business.)
>
> But if you are a Warmist, then that is your right, and you can hand-wring
> over it all you want.   You can even send money to Algore if you want.
>  Sorta like debating which religion is "better" or "true" based on various
> observations about human behavior and nature and such.  Although I do like
> the idea of becoming a "climate expert" and flying off here and there in
> first class, staying at some nice hotels, and eating some good food and
> drinking some good wine all the while telling the "rich" to send me some
> mo' money.  I should get back in the consulting business...
>
> --R
>
> On 12/1/11 4:43 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
>
>> So if mankind disappeared from the planet overnight along with all our
>> greenhouse gas emitting activities, are you saying the polar ice caps
>> would
>> continue to melt, ocean levels would continue to rise, and average
>> temperatures would continue their inexorable upward momentum for the next
>> 50 to 100 years because of Mt. Pinatubo and other natural disasters?
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Dieselhead<126die...@gmail.com**>  wrote:
>>
>>  I heard the stats for Kilauea once.  I wish I could remember, but is an
>>> incredible amount.  When Mt. Penetubo blew, I heard that stats on that
>>> one.
>>>  I think it was something like in one day, that volcano emitted more
>>> sulphur, ash, lead, etc. (you pick the pollutant) than the total
>>> emissions
>>> of every vehicle ever made.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   Volcan Tungurahua in Ecuador is erupting again.  We stayed
>>>
   in Banos (actually up on the slope of the volcano, at Luna
   Runtun, at the base of the volcano, at Christmas 2 years
   ago.  It was venting a bit when we were there.  Banos and
   other towns in the vicinity are being evacuated.  It is a
   beautiful area, with lots of excitement!  The people there
   seem to roll with it, even though it periodically wipes out
   their farms and towns.

   (The) "eruption of Tungurahua volcano created large clouds
   of gas and ash above the summit and it's directed towards
   the southeast and the west, near city of Banos. Ash cloud up
   to 4 kilometers in the sky and pyroclastic flows
   approximately one kilometer down the volcano flank could be
   seen on Tuesday."

   ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>>> To search list archives 
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> >
>>>
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> >
>>>
>>>  __**_
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To sear

Re: [MBZ] Warmists and global warming

[Walt Zarnoch]

Gore was at a local college recently.

He flew in by private jet, which I guess is ok due to the privacy of it.

What isn't ok, is leaving all your hummer/limo/escort/etc convoy idling for
the duration of your speech and hobnob. Then chastising people for driving.
At the same event. Then saying it was offset by planting a few hundred
trees someplace.

You be the judge.

Walt
On Dec 2, 2011 9:54 AM, "andrew strasfogel"  wrote:

> The only climate "experts" who fly first class work for "Exxon".
>
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Rich Thomas <
> richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:
>
> > Well the climate scientists should run that scenario in their models,
> > account for the occasional (which of late seems to be more frequent than
> > occasional) volcano eruptions injecting huge amounts of stuff in the
> > atmosphere.  And old Mr. Sun too, don't forget old Mr. Sun has been
> acting
> > up a bit lately too (and other planets appear to be wait for it
> > warming too!).  Unfortunately the technology/science just ain't there
> yet.
> >
> > The problem here is not whether or not the premise is true or false;
> > rather, it is whether the modeling and data are sufficiently accurate to
> > actually make the projections on which all the hoohah is based on.
>  Factor
> > in the big money involved for "research" and political actions, and the
> > recent revelations about the process for all these pronouncements, and
> the
> > whole thing becomes a bit dubious to many people (many of whom are smart
> > enough and sufficiently knowledgeable to opine on the physics of the
> > matter).  I could probably dig into it all and educate myself
> sufficiently
> > to make some sort of reasoned judgment, but why bother when the
> surrounding
> > political aspects make it minimally interesting to do so as all that
> seems
> > to be the overriding aspect (surprise!).  There might be something to it
> > all, but taking away my truck while the rest of the world wants them too
> > (and air conditioning and washing machines!) just ain't gonna do one bit
> of
> > good.  Go work on the Chinese and the Indians, then get back to me after
> > you get them organized.  (Hint:  They will say "tink you berry mooch" and
> > go about their business.)
> >
> > But if you are a Warmist, then that is your right, and you can hand-wring
> > over it all you want.   You can even send money to Algore if you want.
> >  Sorta like debating which religion is "better" or "true" based on
> various
> > observations about human behavior and nature and such.  Although I do
> like
> > the idea of becoming a "climate expert" and flying off here and there in
> > first class, staying at some nice hotels, and eating some good food and
> > drinking some good wine all the while telling the "rich" to send me some
> > mo' money.  I should get back in the consulting business...
> >
> > --R
> >
> > On 12/1/11 4:43 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
> >
> >> So if mankind disappeared from the planet overnight along with all our
> >> greenhouse gas emitting activities, are you saying the polar ice caps
> >> would
> >> continue to melt, ocean levels would continue to rise, and average
> >> temperatures would continue their inexorable upward momentum for the
> next
> >> 50 to 100 years because of Mt. Pinatubo and other natural disasters?
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Dieselhead<126die...@gmail.com**>
>  wrote:
> >>
> >>  I heard the stats for Kilauea once.  I wish I could remember, but is an
> >>> incredible amount.  When Mt. Penetubo blew, I heard that stats on that
> >>> one.
> >>>  I think it was something like in one day, that volcano emitted more
> >>> sulphur, ash, lead, etc. (you pick the pollutant) than the total
> >>> emissions
> >>> of every vehicle ever made.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>   Volcan Tungurahua in Ecuador is erupting again.  We stayed
> >>>
>    in Banos (actually up on the slope of the volcano, at Luna
>    Runtun, at the base of the volcano, at Christmas 2 years
>    ago.  It was venting a bit when we were there.  Banos and
>    other towns in the vicinity are being evacuated.  It is a
>    beautiful area, with lots of excitement!  The people there
>    seem to roll with it, even though it periodically wipes out
>    their farms and towns.
> 
>    (The) "eruption of Tungurahua volcano created large clouds
>    of gas and ash above the summit and it's directed towards
>    the southeast and the west, near city of Banos. Ash cloud up
>    to 4 kilometers in the sky and pyroclastic flows
>    approximately one kilometer down the volcano flank could be
>    seen on Tuesday."
> 
>    ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> >>> To search list archives http://www.oki

Re: [MBZ] Warmists and global warming

[Mitch Haley]

andrew strasfogel wrote:

The only climate "experts" who fly first class work for "Exxon".


Vice President Gore now works for Exxon-Mobil?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Warmists and global warming

[Rich Thomas]

Thanks for the tip, I'll send them my resume.

--R

On 12/2/11 9:54 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

The only climate "experts" who fly first class work for "Exxon".



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Re: [MBZ] Warmists and global warming

[G Mann]

I'm betting Al Gore doesn't fly coach.  Just saying.
A bit of research would likely find others who don't either.  Just saying.

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 7:54 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

> The only climate "experts" who fly first class work for "Exxon".
>
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Rich Thomas <
> richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:
>
> > Well the climate scientists should run that scenario in their models,
> > account for the occasional (which of late seems to be more frequent than
> > occasional) volcano eruptions injecting huge amounts of stuff in the
> > atmosphere.  And old Mr. Sun too, don't forget old Mr. Sun has been
> acting
> > up a bit lately too (and other planets appear to be wait for it
> > warming too!).  Unfortunately the technology/science just ain't there
> yet.
> >
> > The problem here is not whether or not the premise is true or false;
> > rather, it is whether the modeling and data are sufficiently accurate to
> > actually make the projections on which all the hoohah is based on.
>  Factor
> > in the big money involved for "research" and political actions, and the
> > recent revelations about the process for all these pronouncements, and
> the
> > whole thing becomes a bit dubious to many people (many of whom are smart
> > enough and sufficiently knowledgeable to opine on the physics of the
> > matter).  I could probably dig into it all and educate myself
> sufficiently
> > to make some sort of reasoned judgment, but why bother when the
> surrounding
> > political aspects make it minimally interesting to do so as all that
> seems
> > to be the overriding aspect (surprise!).  There might be something to it
> > all, but taking away my truck while the rest of the world wants them too
> > (and air conditioning and washing machines!) just ain't gonna do one bit
> of
> > good.  Go work on the Chinese and the Indians, then get back to me after
> > you get them organized.  (Hint:  They will say "tink you berry mooch" and
> > go about their business.)
> >
> > But if you are a Warmist, then that is your right, and you can hand-wring
> > over it all you want.   You can even send money to Algore if you want.
> >  Sorta like debating which religion is "better" or "true" based on
> various
> > observations about human behavior and nature and such.  Although I do
> like
> > the idea of becoming a "climate expert" and flying off here and there in
> > first class, staying at some nice hotels, and eating some good food and
> > drinking some good wine all the while telling the "rich" to send me some
> > mo' money.  I should get back in the consulting business...
> >
> > --R
> >
> > On 12/1/11 4:43 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
> >
> >> So if mankind disappeared from the planet overnight along with all our
> >> greenhouse gas emitting activities, are you saying the polar ice caps
> >> would
> >> continue to melt, ocean levels would continue to rise, and average
> >> temperatures would continue their inexorable upward momentum for the
> next
> >> 50 to 100 years because of Mt. Pinatubo and other natural disasters?
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Dieselhead<126die...@gmail.com**>
>  wrote:
> >>
> >>  I heard the stats for Kilauea once.  I wish I could remember, but is an
> >>> incredible amount.  When Mt. Penetubo blew, I heard that stats on that
> >>> one.
> >>>  I think it was something like in one day, that volcano emitted more
> >>> sulphur, ash, lead, etc. (you pick the pollutant) than the total
> >>> emissions
> >>> of every vehicle ever made.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>   Volcan Tungurahua in Ecuador is erupting again.  We stayed
> >>>
>    in Banos (actually up on the slope of the volcano, at Luna
>    Runtun, at the base of the volcano, at Christmas 2 years
>    ago.  It was venting a bit when we were there.  Banos and
>    other towns in the vicinity are being evacuated.  It is a
>    beautiful area, with lots of excitement!  The people there
>    seem to roll with it, even though it periodically wipes out
>    their farms and towns.
> 
>    (The) "eruption of Tungurahua volcano created large clouds
>    of gas and ash above the summit and it's directed towards
>    the southeast and the west, near city of Banos. Ash cloud up
>    to 4 kilometers in the sky and pyroclastic flows
>    approximately one kilometer down the volcano flank could be
>    seen on Tuesday."
> 
>    ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/<
> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/>
> >>>  >>
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>>
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mai

Re: [MBZ] Warmists and global warming

[Mitch Haley]

G Mann wrote:

I'm betting Al Gore doesn't fly coach.  Just saying.
A bit of research would likely find others who don't either.  Just saying.


First class is too pedestrian for Al. He charters his own jet.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Warmists and global warming

[andrew strasfogel]

If he flew commercial I am sure he would be mobbed by well wishers.

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

> G Mann wrote:
>
>> I'm betting Al Gore doesn't fly coach.  Just saying.
>> A bit of research would likely find others who don't either.  Just saying.
>>
>
> First class is too pedestrian for Al. He charters his own jet.
>
> Mitch.
>
>
> __**_
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
>
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Re: [MBZ] Warmists and global warming

[Mitch Haley]

andrew strasfogel wrote:

If he flew commercial I am sure he would be mobbed by well wishers.


And yet you seem to feel there is something wrong with an oil company exec 
flying commercial.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Warmists and global warming

[andrew strasfogel]

Not at all.  They pose no safety risk of being mobbed by any sort of
wishers, since they are not public figures.


On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

> andrew strasfogel wrote:
>
>> If he flew commercial I am sure he would be mobbed by well wishers.
>>
>
> And yet you seem to feel there is something wrong with an oil company exec
> flying commercial.
>
> Mitch.
>
> __**_
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> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Warmists and global warming

[Mitch Haley]

andrew strasfogel wrote:

Not at all.  They pose no safety risk of being mobbed by any sort of
wishers, since they are not public figures.


So the line below was not intended as a slight to oil company execs?

"The only climate "experts" who fly first class work for "Exxon"."

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Re: [MBZ] Warmists and global warming

[andrew strasfogel]

I used fake quotes to denote the shills who write "scientific papers"
funded by Exxon and other giant oil companies to debunk any link between
human activity and climate change.  These so-called experts are hired guns,
not Exxon employees, although i could be wrong about that.


On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 11:33 AM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

> andrew strasfogel wrote:
>
>> Not at all.  They pose no safety risk of being mobbed by any sort of
>> wishers, since they are not public figures.
>>
>
> So the line below was not intended as a slight to oil company execs?
>
> "The only climate "experts" who fly first class work for "Exxon"."
>
> __**_
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
>
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Re: [MBZ] Warmists and global warming

[Mitch Haley]

andrew strasfogel wrote:

I used fake quotes to denote the shills who write "scientific papers"
funded by Exxon and other giant oil companies to debunk any link between
human activity and climate change.  These so-called experts are hired guns,
not Exxon employees, although i could be wrong about that.


I see. You don't like shills for companies they don't own posing as experts.

How about AlGore posing as a phony expert in order to shill for companies he 
does own?


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Warmists and global warming

[andrew strasfogel]

I know of an Al Gore - is that whom you mean?

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

> andrew strasfogel wrote:
>
>> I used fake quotes to denote the shills who write "scientific papers"
>> funded by Exxon and other giant oil companies to debunk any link between
>> human activity and climate change.  These so-called experts are hired
>> guns,
>> not Exxon employees, although i could be wrong about that.
>>
>
> I see. You don't like shills for companies they don't own posing as
> experts.
>
> How about AlGore posing as a phony expert in order to shill for companies
> he does own?
>
> Mitch.
>
> __**_
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Warmists and global warming

[Scott and Gwen Ritchey]

Climate change is cause for concern.  Government reaction is cause for fear.
Just my opinion.


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Re: [MBZ] Warmists and global warming

[Dimitri Seretakis]

Well put.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 2, 2011, at 1:40 PM, "Scott and Gwen Ritchey"  
wrote:


Climate change is cause for concern.  Government reaction is cause for fear.
Just my opinion.


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Re: [MBZ] Warmists and global warming

[andrew strasfogel]

Here's some interesting news:

*Number of Americans acknowledging global warming rises -- poll *

Jennifer Yachnin, E&E reporter

Published: Friday, December 2, 2011

Story Tools sponsored by *American Energy Innovation Council*

*
*


An increasing number of Americans are once again embracing the idea that
there is global warming, according to a new survey released by the Pew
Research Center for the People & the Press.


The survey, which the center has conducted annually since 2006, found 63
percent of respondents believe there is "solid evidence" of global warming,
marking the third year that figure has increased since it reached 57
percent in 2009.

But the percentage of respondents indicating their belief in global warming
still falls short of the 2006- to 2008-era surveys, which peaked at a high
of 77 percent.


The 2011 survey included 2,001 adults in a nationwide telephone poll
conducted Nov. 9-14.

The poll also found 38 percent of individuals thought that global warming
is a "very serious" problem, up from 32 percent in 2010, but still short of
the 45 percent who gave that answer in 2007.

The survey also reaffirmed deep divisions based on political affiliations,
with 77 percent of self-identified Democrats affirming evidence of global
warming and 43 percent of self-identified Republicans doing so. Sixty-three
percent of self-identified independent voters said global warming exists.


In addition, respondents split about the causes of global warming based on
their political affiliations, with 51 percent of Democrats blaming human
activity for global warming, while 19 percent of Republicans gave that
answer. Forty percent of independent voters identified human activity as
the cause of rising temperatures.

[image: Description:
http://www.eenews.net/2/Story/9195/click_to_display/1059957099/ident.gif?r=fp74vtx6q7&js=true]


On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Dimitri Seretakis wrote:

> Well put.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 2, 2011, at 1:40 PM, "Scott and Gwen Ritchey" 
> wrote:
>
>
> Climate change is cause for concern.  Government reaction is cause for
> fear.
> Just my opinion.
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
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Re: [MBZ] Warmists and global warming

[Randy Bennell]

Just more evidence that the people are easily influenced.

I am absolutely certain that only a few years ago we were being told 
that another ice age was coming.


Randy

On 02/12/2011 1:02 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

Here's some interesting news:

*Number of Americans acknowledging global warming rises -- poll *

Jennifer Yachnin, E&E reporter

Published: Friday, December 2, 2011

Story Tools sponsored by *American Energy Innovation Council*

*
*


An increasing number of Americans are once again embracing the idea that
there is global warming, according to a new survey released by the Pew
Research Center for the People&  the Press.


The survey, which the center has conducted annually since 2006, found 63
percent of respondents believe there is "solid evidence" of global warming,
marking the third year that figure has increased since it reached 57
percent in 2009.

But the percentage of respondents indicating their belief in global warming
still falls short of the 2006- to 2008-era surveys, which peaked at a high
of 77 percent.


The 2011 survey included 2,001 adults in a nationwide telephone poll
conducted Nov. 9-14.

The poll also found 38 percent of individuals thought that global warming
is a "very serious" problem, up from 32 percent in 2010, but still short of
the 45 percent who gave that answer in 2007.

The survey also reaffirmed deep divisions based on political affiliations,
with 77 percent of self-identified Democrats affirming evidence of global
warming and 43 percent of self-identified Republicans doing so. Sixty-three
percent of self-identified independent voters said global warming exists.


In addition, respondents split about the causes of global warming based on
their political affiliations, with 51 percent of Democrats blaming human
activity for global warming, while 19 percent of Republicans gave that
answer. Forty percent of independent voters identified human activity as
the cause of rising temperatures.

[image: Description:
http://www.eenews.net/2/Story/9195/click_to_display/1059957099/ident.gif?r=fp74vtx6q7&js=true]


On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Dimitri Seretakiswrote:


Well put.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 2, 2011, at 1:40 PM, "Scott and Gwen Ritchey"
wrote:


Climate change is cause for concern.  Government reaction is cause for
fear.
Just my opinion.


___




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Re: [MBZ] Warmists and global warming

[Mitch Haley]

andrew strasfogel wrote:

Here's some interesting news:

*Number of Americans acknowledging global warming rises -- poll *



So we now determine our scientific 'facts' based on popular opinion?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Warmists and global warming

[Rich Thomas]

Did the poll ask, "How much would YOU [i.e., not someone else like "the 
rich"] be willing to pay each year [ or day, month] to alleviate what 
you believe to be global warming?"  For such things like your electric 
bill, your fuels, your manufactured goods, various taxes and fees, your 
time, etc., or, say, as a fraction of your income or a total annual amount.


That would be interesting to know, and a lot more telling that a simple 
"I believe."  Answering a phone poll question is nice and easy, but 
putting your money behind it is the real test of one's commitment to 
their opinion or belief; otherwise, it's just BS.  I mean, we all 
believe there should be no starving kids in the world, right?  Or no 
cancer.  Or no whatever.  And we would tell a phone poller that, but how 
many people actually do much to alleviate it $-wise?


--R

On 12/2/11 2:02 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

Here's some interesting news:

*Number of Americans acknowledging global warming rises -- poll *

Jennifer Yachnin, E&E reporter

Published: Friday, December 2, 2011

Story Tools sponsored by *American Energy Innovation Council*

*
*


An increasing number of Americans are once again embracing the idea that
there is global warming, according to a new survey released by the Pew
Research Center for the People&  the Press.


The survey, which the center has conducted annually since 2006, found 63
percent of respondents believe there is "solid evidence" of global warming,
marking the third year that figure has increased since it reached 57
percent in 2009.

But the percentage of respondents indicating their belief in global warming
still falls short of the 2006- to 2008-era surveys, which peaked at a high
of 77 percent.


The 2011 survey included 2,001 adults in a nationwide telephone poll
conducted Nov. 9-14.

The poll also found 38 percent of individuals thought that global warming
is a "very serious" problem, up from 32 percent in 2010, but still short of
the 45 percent who gave that answer in 2007.

The survey also reaffirmed deep divisions based on political affiliations,
with 77 percent of self-identified Democrats affirming evidence of global
warming and 43 percent of self-identified Republicans doing so. Sixty-three
percent of self-identified independent voters said global warming exists.


In addition, respondents split about the causes of global warming based on
their political affiliations, with 51 percent of Democrats blaming human
activity for global warming, while 19 percent of Republicans gave that
answer. Forty percent of independent voters identified human activity as
the cause of rising temperatures.

[image: Description:
http://www.eenews.net/2/Story/9195/click_to_display/1059957099/ident.gif?r=fp74vtx6q7&js=true]


On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Dimitri Seretakiswrote:


Well put.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 2, 2011, at 1:40 PM, "Scott and Gwen Ritchey"
wrote:


Climate change is cause for concern.  Government reaction is cause for
fear.
Just my opinion.


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Re: [MBZ] Warmists and global warming

[Dieselhead]

The gummit and the "climate change/global warming/lets find a new way 
to tax our opponents gangs" have for a while




andrew strasfogel wrote:

Here's some interesting news:

*Number of Americans acknowledging global warming rises -- poll *



So we now determine our scientific 'facts' based on popular opinion?

Mitch.

\

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Re: [MBZ] Warmists and global warming

[Dieselhead]

If he flew commercial I am sure he would be mobbed by well wishers.


Just like Moochele was at Nascar!

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Re: [MBZ] Warmists and global warming

[rogerhga]

Rich, 
You are looking at this issue too logically and with too much rationale. Global 
warming is a personal issue like religion...some believe God is behind global 
warming because we humans are inherently sinners while others think the Devil 
is behind global warming just to scare us for fun. However, we all must 
remember that there are "lies, damn lies, then statistics / polls & surveys". 
And in the end it will be as the group Kansas said in their song "all we are is 
dust in the wind". Personally, I think it's the magnetic fields changing, but 
then I could be wrong :-)) 
Best Wishes, 

Roger Hale 
Dinnerware Classics, Inc. 
Monroe, Ga. 
770-267-0850 
www.dinnerwareclassics.com (new) 
www.rubylane.com/shops/sna (antique) 

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Re: [MBZ] Warmists and global warming

[Rich Thomas]

Perhaps that is making our moral compasses go haywire!


--R

On 12/2/11 3:11 PM, roger...@comcast.net wrote:

Personally, I think it's the magnetic fields changing, but then I could be 
wrong :-))


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Re: [MBZ] Warmists and global warming

[Craig]

On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 13:08:24 -0600 Randy Bennell 
wrote:

> I am absolutely certain that only a few years ago we were being told 
> that another ice age was coming.

As indeed we were.

Incidentally, ice core records show we are about due for another one.


Craig

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