Re: [MBZ] no glow plug light/hard starts; glow plug time? - '85 300D FOLLOW-UP

[ernest breakfield]

hi all!

   thanks for all the responses to my query!

   pulled glow plugs to find out 2 didn't glow any longer. (all were 
Bosch parts, and looked good otherwise.)

   replaced with new set and all is well again.

   seeing only 2 were dead made me think; this thing used to start well 
when cold even without glowing. reviewing records made it apparent it 
hadn't had the valves adjusted for too long. with a proper valve 
adjustment, it once again starts with relatively little effort even 
without glowing.



cheers!
e


ernest breakfield wrote:

hi all!

just in time for some of the coolest weather we've had here 
lately, the Glow Plug Light on our '85 300D isn't lighting, and cold 
starts have suddenly become a fairly lengthy affair of several long 
cranking attempts accompanied by a bit of whitish smoke immediately 
following its eventual start-up. (smoke is an unusual occurrence for 
this rig, since it eats almost exclusively B99.)
if i leave the key in the 'Glow' position for long enough before 
starting, i eventually (~45 secs) hear a resounding 'click' from the 
area of the Glow Relay, so is it safe to ASSuME it's just time for 2 
or more glow plugs?
what's the best way to check to verify exactly what the problem 
is? is there perhaps a handy diagnostic write-up somewhere online 
someone can recommend and point me to?



cheers!
e


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Re: [MBZ] no glow plug light/hard starts; glow plug time? - '85 300D

[Craig McCluskey]

On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:05:38 -0500 Wonko the Sane 
wrote:

> There is a Mercedes-approved tool for this task. I think it is called a
> pre-chamber reamer.
> 
> I used a wood dowel to probe around and knock off soot deposits. Seemed
> to work fine and didn't look to be much different than the
> Mercedes-approved tool. Just much less expensive.

In talking with Ben at Ben's Motors in Austin, Texas, THE independent in
Austin, he told me to take a hammer and mash the end of a glow plug flat
and use that for a reamer; just thread it in and out. So, that's what I
have done.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] no glow plug light/hard starts; glow plug time? - '85 300D

[Wonko the Sane]

There is a Mercedes-approved tool for this task. I think it is called a
pre-chamber reamer.

I used a wood dowel to probe around and knock off soot deposits. Seemed to
work fine and didn't look to be much different than the Mercedes-approved
tool. Just much less expensive.

On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 4:49 PM, ernest breakfield <
erne...@backyardengineering.org> wrote:

> thanks for all the input, guys. looks like i'll be doing glow plugs soon.
>
>   i vaguely recall hearing something about needing to ream out the area
> around the Glow Plugs when changing them out; is that correct?
>   if so, does this require some special tool, or is there something else i
> could use that would do the job properly?
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] no glow plug light/hard starts; glow plug time? - '85 300D

[ernest breakfield]

hi!

   no, the glow plug doesn't flash; never has.
   i don't recall reading anything about flashing in the owners manual 
(yes, i have one, and i actually read the dang things!); is this 
something an '85 617 should do?



cheers!
e


Peter Frederick wrote:

Yup, one or more dead plugs.

Replace the set, if one is dead, more are going bad from the same thing.

Does the glow plug light flash after you crank?  If not, you have more 
than one out.


Peter

On Mar 23, 2009, at 6:07 PM, ernest breakfield wrote:


hi all!

   just in time for some of the coolest weather we've had here 
lately, the Glow Plug Light on our '85 300D isn't lighting, and cold 
starts have suddenly become a fairly lengthy affair of several long 
cranking attempts accompanied by a bit of whitish smoke immediately 
following its eventual start-up. (smoke is an unusual occurrence for 
this rig, since it eats almost exclusively B99.)
   if i leave the key in the 'Glow' position for long enough before 
starting, i eventually (~45 secs) hear a resounding 'click' from the 
area of the Glow Relay, so is it safe to ASSuME it's just time for 2 
or more glow plugs?
   what's the best way to check to verify exactly what the problem 
is? is there perhaps a handy diagnostic write-up somewhere online 
someone can recommend and point me to?



cheers!
e

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Re: [MBZ] no glow plug light/hard starts; glow plug time? - '85 300D

[ernest breakfield]

thanks for all the input, guys. looks like i'll be doing glow plugs soon.

   i vaguely recall hearing something about needing to ream out the 
area around the Glow Plugs when changing them out; is that correct?
   if so, does this require some special tool, or is there something 
else i could use that would do the job properly?



cheers!
e

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Re: [MBZ] no glow plug light/hard starts; glow plug time? - '85 300D

[Curt Raymond]

When I got my 240D and the glowplug light wouldn't light I dinked around with 
troubleshooting a little when I needed to just dig in and replace the plugs...

-Curt

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:37:37 -0500
From: Loren Faeth 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] no glow plug light/hard starts; glow plug time? -
    '85 300D
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Message-ID:
    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Come on guys!  Do it the easy way!  pull the plug to the glowplugs 
off the glow plug relay, take a ohmmeter and read the resistance of 
each socket in the plug to a good ground.  Good plugs are 0.7 
ohm.  bad ones are over 1 ohm or under 0.6 ohm.  Usually you find 
good or open (infinite resistance)  I think this list has lost its 
collective memory since Marshall has been gone.  In most cases even a 
light bulb continuity tester will get you there.  Cheap multimeters 
won't measure tenths of an ohm, but will tell you if you have a short or open.



  
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Re: [MBZ] no glow plug light/hard starts; glow plug time? - '85 300D

[Luther]

I'll second this.  If the plug is bad, the meter will peg out and not drop.

Luther

Fmiser wrote:

ernest breakfield wrote:



  

what's the best way to check to verify exactly
what the problem is? is there perhaps a handy diagnostic
write-up somewhere online someone can recommend and point me
to?



My favorite way to test them is with an old-fashioned automotive
ammeter. (Note - this method is for the "new" parallel pencil plugs) The
ones that display -30,0,+30. I put 12AWG wire leads on it. 


To use it, I pop the top off of the glow relay and unplug the connector
for the glow plugs. There is a contact for each glow plug in this
connector, so I clip on meter lead to the fused side of the big,
screw-in fuse and then touch each contact, one at a time. The socket
has pin numbers molded into it, and these numbers correspond to the
cylinder number. 


This method tests the wire _and_ the plug. When cold, a good plug draws
about 20A (Well, on my meter it point to the mark for 20 amps. I have
not calibrated or tested the accuracy of that meter...) It will drop
back to about 15A after 8-10 seconds.
My favorite way to test glow plugs is with an old dashboard
ammeter wired to a length of 12 AWG cable.

--Philip


--
Luther   KB5QHUAlma, Ark
'87 300SDL (281,xxx mi)
'85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x59,xxx mi) BioBeast
'82 300CD (183 kmi)
'82 300D  (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold
'85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine "The Accordion"


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Re: [MBZ] no glow plug light/hard starts; glow plug time? - '85 300D

[Jim Cathey]

I think I remember Marshall saying that the dash glowplug light keys 
off the
#1 glowplug - it could well be the dead one (as could any of the 
others).


The pencil plug system balances the current of #1 against the sum of
the currents in the rest, modified by the ratio.  (That is 4*#1 against
the sum of #'s 2-5 in a 5-cylinder.)  Too different and the light
goes out.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] no glow plug light/hard starts; glow plug time? - '85 300D

[Fmiser]

> ernest breakfield wrote:

> what's the best way to check to verify exactly
> what the problem is? is there perhaps a handy diagnostic
> write-up somewhere online someone can recommend and point me
> to?

My favorite way to test them is with an old-fashioned automotive
ammeter. (Note - this method is for the "new" parallel pencil plugs) The
ones that display -30,0,+30. I put 12AWG wire leads on it. 

To use it, I pop the top off of the glow relay and unplug the connector
for the glow plugs. There is a contact for each glow plug in this
connector, so I clip on meter lead to the fused side of the big,
screw-in fuse and then touch each contact, one at a time. The socket
has pin numbers molded into it, and these numbers correspond to the
cylinder number. 

This method tests the wire _and_ the plug. When cold, a good plug draws
about 20A (Well, on my meter it point to the mark for 20 amps. I have
not calibrated or tested the accuracy of that meter...) It will drop
back to about 15A after 8-10 seconds.
My favorite way to test glow plugs is with an old dashboard
ammeter wired to a length of 12 AWG cable.

--Philip

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Re: [MBZ] no glow plug light/hard starts; glow plug time? - '85 300D

[Loren Faeth]

Come on guys!  Do it the easy way!  pull the plug to the glowplugs 
off the glow plug relay, take a ohmmeter and read the resistance of 
each socket in the plug to a good ground.  Good plugs are 0.7 
ohm.  bad ones are over 1 ohm or under 0.6 ohm.  Usually you find 
good or open (infinite resistance)  I think this list has lost its 
collective memory since Marshall has been gone.  In most cases even a 
light bulb continuity tester will get you there.  Cheap multimeters 
won't measure tenths of an ohm, but will tell you if you have a short or open.


At 09:18 PM 3/23/2009, you wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:30:47 -0500 Wonko the Sane 
wrote:

> '85 -- is that pencil plugs?

Yes.


> Pull them and do a resistance check on each. One (or more) will read
> much differently from the others. Replace it.

Or carefully jumper the glow-plug-under-test across the battery with a
pair of vise-grips and watch it glow orange if it's good. (Of course,
metal that's glowing orange is VERY hot!)


Craig

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Loren Faeth 



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Re: [MBZ] no glow plug light/hard starts; glow plug time? - '85 300D

[Wonko the Sane]

I've never gotten a burn using an ohmmeter -- and that includes 5 years as
an electronics tech.

On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 9:18 PM, Craig McCluskey  wrote:

>
> > Pull them and do a resistance check on each. One (or more) will read
> > much differently from the others. Replace it.
>
> Or carefully jumper the glow-plug-under-test across the battery with a
> pair of vise-grips and watch it glow orange if it's good. (Of course,
> metal that's glowing orange is VERY hot!)
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] no glow plug light/hard starts; glow plug time? - '85 300D

[Peter Frederick]

Yup, one or more dead plugs.

Replace the set, if one is dead, more are going bad from the same thing.

Does the glow plug light flash after you crank?  If not, you have  
more than one out.


Peter

On Mar 23, 2009, at 6:07 PM, ernest breakfield wrote:


hi all!

   just in time for some of the coolest weather we've had here  
lately, the Glow Plug Light on our '85 300D isn't lighting, and  
cold starts have suddenly become a fairly lengthy affair of several  
long cranking attempts accompanied by a bit of whitish smoke  
immediately following its eventual start-up. (smoke is an unusual  
occurrence for this rig, since it eats almost exclusively B99.)
   if i leave the key in the 'Glow' position for long enough before  
starting, i eventually (~45 secs) hear a resounding 'click' from  
the area of the Glow Relay, so is it safe to ASSuME it's just time  
for 2 or more glow plugs?
   what's the best way to check to verify exactly what the problem  
is? is there perhaps a handy diagnostic write-up somewhere online  
someone can recommend and point me to?



cheers!
e

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Re: [MBZ] no glow plug light/hard starts; glow plug time? - '85 300D

[Craig McCluskey]

On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:30:47 -0500 Wonko the Sane 
wrote:

> '85 -- is that pencil plugs?

Yes.


> Pull them and do a resistance check on each. One (or more) will read
> much differently from the others. Replace it.

Or carefully jumper the glow-plug-under-test across the battery with a
pair of vise-grips and watch it glow orange if it's good. (Of course,
metal that's glowing orange is VERY hot!)


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] no glow plug light/hard starts; glow plug time? - '85 300D

[OK Don]

I think I remember Marshall saying that the dash glowplug light keys off the
#1 glowplug - it could well be the dead one (as could any of the others).

On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Wonko the Sane  wrote:

> '85 -- is that pencil plugs? Pull them and do a resistance check on each.
> One (or more) will read much differently from the others. Replace it.
>
> On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 6:07 PM, ernest breakfield <
> erne...@backyardengineering.org> wrote:
>
> > hi all!
> >
> >   just in time for some of the coolest weather we've had here lately, the
> > Glow Plug Light on our '85 300D isn't lighting, and cold starts have
> > suddenly become a fairly lengthy affair of several long cranking attempts
> > accompanied by a bit of whitish smoke immediately following its eventual
> > start-up. (smoke is an unusual occurrence for this rig, since it eats
> almost
> > exclusively B99.)
> >   if i leave the key in the 'Glow' position for long enough before
> > starting, i eventually (~45 secs) hear a resounding 'click' from the area
> of
> > the Glow Relay, so is it safe to ASSuME it's just time for 2 or more glow
> > plugs?
> >   what's the best way to check to verify exactly what the problem is? is
> > there perhaps a handy diagnostic write-up somewhere online someone can
> > recommend and point me to?
> >
> >
> > cheers!
> > e
> >
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Re: [MBZ] no glow plug light/hard starts; glow plug time? - '85 300D

[Wonko the Sane]

'85 -- is that pencil plugs? Pull them and do a resistance check on each.
One (or more) will read much differently from the others. Replace it.

On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 6:07 PM, ernest breakfield <
erne...@backyardengineering.org> wrote:

> hi all!
>
>   just in time for some of the coolest weather we've had here lately, the
> Glow Plug Light on our '85 300D isn't lighting, and cold starts have
> suddenly become a fairly lengthy affair of several long cranking attempts
> accompanied by a bit of whitish smoke immediately following its eventual
> start-up. (smoke is an unusual occurrence for this rig, since it eats almost
> exclusively B99.)
>   if i leave the key in the 'Glow' position for long enough before
> starting, i eventually (~45 secs) hear a resounding 'click' from the area of
> the Glow Relay, so is it safe to ASSuME it's just time for 2 or more glow
> plugs?
>   what's the best way to check to verify exactly what the problem is? is
> there perhaps a handy diagnostic write-up somewhere online someone can
> recommend and point me to?
>
>
> cheers!
> e
>
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[MBZ] no glow plug light/hard starts; glow plug time? - '85 300D

[ernest breakfield]

hi all!

   just in time for some of the coolest weather we've had here lately, 
the Glow Plug Light on our '85 300D isn't lighting, and cold starts have 
suddenly become a fairly lengthy affair of several long cranking 
attempts accompanied by a bit of whitish smoke immediately following its 
eventual start-up. (smoke is an unusual occurrence for this rig, since 
it eats almost exclusively B99.)
   if i leave the key in the 'Glow' position for long enough before 
starting, i eventually (~45 secs) hear a resounding 'click' from the 
area of the Glow Relay, so is it safe to ASSuME it's just time for 2 or 
more glow plugs?
   what's the best way to check to verify exactly what the problem is? 
is there perhaps a handy diagnostic write-up somewhere online someone 
can recommend and point me to?



cheers!
e

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