Re: [MBZ] GASSERS LAST LONGER?

2005-06-22 Thread Marshall Booth 

Tom Hargrave wrote:

Dan,
 
First, I noticed that Marshall has already stated that it's untrue.
 
I've owned 15 Mercedes to date 8 diesel & 7 gas. My two 300E's both went 
to 250,000 miles, one with no problems and the other with a dropped 
valve at 200,000 miles. When the head was pulled on the one with the 
dropped valve, the cylinders were inspected and showed no signs of wear. 
I consider the droped valve a random failure that could have happened to 
any of them. Both 300E's were sold at 250,000 miles, not because they 
were tired but because I decided to go back to diesel. I drive a lit of 
miles and I figured that an all mechanical engine was less likely to 
fail on the road.
 
My other gassers already had well over 200,000 miles on the clock when I 
bought them and all ran well, with no signs of blowby.
 
So, 7 out of 7, all with over 200,000 miles - you decide.
 
Also, I've had friends in the SF Bay area take their 420 SEL's to well 
over 500,000 miles. The engines go the distance but the heads usually 
need attention at 300,000 miles and at 600,000 miles.


No Question that a carefully maintained Mercedes gasoline car CAN last a 
very long time. And yes, 200-250kmi of reliable service from a 124 
series 300E with an M103 engine (or 201 with an M102/103 engine) before 
significant engine repairs are required (providing you don't count 
replacing the valve guides of the early ones under warranty) is quite 
common. 201 and 124 series cars with OM601 and 602 diesels on average 
still lasted 50-100% longer! Then we could talk about the M110 vs the 
OM617 engines where again on average, the diesels lasted FAR longer.


Something that is often forgotten is that cars DO age as well as wear 
out. When I suggest that a diesel will last 500kmi, that will seldom 
happen unless the car is driven 40-50 kmi a year. If you drive it 10kmi 
a year it is rare that the car last much longer than 25 years, but then 
it's seldom the engine that retires the car. Everything else being 
equal, a diesel WILL last longer and with less maintenance - in most 
cases about twice as long before the diesel engine fails. The number of 
Mercedes diesels in the US that have gone half a million miles are quite 
difficult to keep track of because there are many, many thousands of 
them. The number of gasoline engined Mercedes lasting 500kmi makes a 
MUCH shorter list. The same is true for the number of diesel vs gasoline 
cars lasting 250-500kmi. Diesel engines FAR outlasted gasoline engines.


It is NOT unusual for diesels to have NEVER been "opened" other than to 
adjust the valves and maybe change a timing chain in the older (OM61x) 
ones. It's usual for the head of an OM61x diesel to never need to be 
pulled (the OM60x diesel aren't quite that good - but the numbers were 
still a tiny fraction of the number gasoline cars that needed to have 
the heads pulled by the time the cars much exceeded 200kmi). Glow plugs 
might need to be changed once or twice by 500kmi. Any Mercedes mechanic 
with extensive experience with both diesels and gas versions will 
testify that routine maintenance on a diesel is significantly less 
costly than on a gasoline engine.


You mentioned spark plugs. Mercedes requires that the approved copper 
plugs for and '80s gasoline engines be changed at ~15kmi. Glow plugs for 
'80s diesels rarely need to be change sooner than 200kmi.


For the individual that drives more than 15-20kmi a year per car, a 
diesel can be a very desirable/economical choice. If you drive you car 
less than that, the increased longevity of the diesel engine will seldom 
be of much benefit since the car will probably need to be scrapped due 
to it's age well before the benefits of longer engine life will be 
apparent. The lower maintenance cost and better fuel economy of a diesel 
engine may still be an advantage. My '85 190D 2.0, 5 speed will 
routinely deliver 42 mpg on the highway (36-40 in town) and even with 
diesel in Pgh at $2.40/gal, no '80s gas Mercedes could not match that. 
The 2.2 liter US versions were not quite that economical (5-10 lower), 
but lasted just as long. Only engine maintenance EVER needed on mine has 
been a serpentine belt tensioner (would have been a warranty item IF it 
had been an American car). Probably should do the vacuum pump soon. At 
the current rate of wear, the timing chain MIGHT require replacement at 
between 400-600kmi! The car WILL disintegrate long before the engine 
wears out as at the current best estimate of 5-10kmi per year it will be 
somewhere between 24-48 more years before it gets to 400kmi!


Marshall
--
  Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions)
  "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
'87 300TD 181Kmi,'87 190D 2.5 199Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 227Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 
159Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 234kmi

  Diesel Technical Advisor MBCA, member GWSection
http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/mbooth1.htm

RE: [MBZ] GASSERS LAST LONGER?

2005-06-22 Thread Tom Hargrave 
Dan,
 
First, I noticed that Marshall has already stated that it's untrue.
 
I've owned 15 Mercedes to date 8 diesel & 7 gas. My two 300E's both went to
250,000 miles, one with no problems and the other with a dropped valve at
200,000 miles. When the head was pulled on the one with the dropped valve,
the cylinders were inspected and showed no signs of wear. I consider the
droped valve a random failure that could have happened to any of them. Both
300E's were sold at 250,000 miles, not because they were tired but because I
decided to go back to diesel. I drive a lit of miles and I figured that an
all mechanical engine was less likely to fail on the road.
 
My other gassers already had well over 200,000 miles on the clock when I
bought them and all ran well, with no signs of blowby.
 
So, 7 out of 7, all with over 200,000 miles - you decide.
 
Also, I've had friends in the SF Bay area take their 420 SEL's to well over
500,000 miles. The engines go the distance but the heads usually need
attention at 300,000 miles and at 600,000 miles.
 

Thanks,
Tom Hargrave
256-656-1924
http://stores.ebay.com/Tom-Hargrave-Sales 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Dan Weeks
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 10:44 AM
To: Mercedes mailing list
Subject: [MBZ] GASSERS LAST LONGER?


Tom: Please elucidate!

Dan


I'll let you in on a little secret - properly maintained Mercedes gassers
last longer than properly maintained Mercedes diesels.


 

Thanks,
Tom Hargrave
256-656-1924
 
http://stores.ebay.com/Tom-Hargrave-Sales


 


  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Don & Teresa Merriman
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 9:25 PM
To: Mercedes mailing list
Subject: Re: [MBZ] another stupid oil question


Now now dudes, I drive a gas pot Benz with 487,000 miles, maintenance
counts.


On 6/20/05, Lee Einer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Not me. From what I hear, the new MBs aren't worth a cup of cold spit. I
like the idea of a vehicle which can keep going for half a million
miles. For me , that means an old Benz diesel.

I guess as a disclaimer I should mention that I am an unrepentant CAB
(Cheap-Assed Bastard.) But I chose an old Benz over a new VW diesel not
solely based on cost but because the new VW turbodiesels are reported to
have issues, and the new MBs are reported to be no more reliable than an
Oldsmobile.

Royce Engler wrote:

>Hey, if we weren't cheap assed bastards, we'd be driving NEW Mercedes
>Diesels...
>
>Royce Engler
>1985 300TD Turbo 265K
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of BenzBarn
>Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 8:36 PM
>To: Mercedes mailing list
>Subject: Re: [MBZ] another stupid oil question
>
>
>Hey, not a bad idea.
>
>I do feel better.  ( cheap assed bastards )
>
>
>___
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>
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>
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--


Lee Einer
Dos Manos Jewelry
http://www.dosmanosjewelry.com




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Don & Teresa Merriman
Market Place Mexico
Vacation Rentals
Property Administration



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Dan Weeks
Freelance Writing and Photography
515/279-4825
[EMAIL PROTECTED]