Re: [MBZ] 420SEL?

[Dan--- via Mercedes]

The W126 420SEL has an M116 V8 that uses the plastic cam oiler tubes that age 
out and disintegrate (break.). This causes the cam lobes to wear and the engine 
to run poorly.

Sorry for any/all confusion.

-D

> On Jan 26, 2018, at 9:22 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Does that mean the 126 420 has the problem or not? 
> 
> Don Snook 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Curley McLain [mailto:126die...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 8:56 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] 420SEL?
> 
> 420 is a M116, same as the 380.
> 
> 560 is a M117.
> 
> 
> 
>> Dan Penoff via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> January 25, 
>> 2018 at 5:33 PM M117, I believe.
>> 
>> And no, they never used metal oiler tubes like the M119 did, only 
>> plastic. In which engine?
>> 
>> -D
>> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL?

[Donald Snook via Mercedes]

Does that mean the 126 420 has the problem or not? 

Don Snook 

-Original Message-
From: Curley McLain [mailto:126die...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 8:56 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 420SEL?

420 is a M116, same as the 380.

560 is a M117.



> Dan Penoff via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> January 25, 
> 2018 at 5:33 PM M117, I believe.
>
> And no, they never used metal oiler tubes like the M119 did, only 
> plastic. In which engine?
>
> -D
>



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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL?

[Dan--- via Mercedes]

There is some confusion here, partially my fault

The M116 is the engine in the 420SEL (W126 chassis), which suffers from 
camshaft oiled tubes made of plastic which fail and cause excessive cam lobe 
wear.

The M119 engine has oil tubes which feed the lifters.  These tubes have end 
caps that fail, allowing oil to not get to the valve train, causing the lifters 
to not pump up.

-D

> On Jan 25, 2018, at 10:01 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> IF this oiler tube problem is a M119 problem, why is the 420 SEL with an M116 
> being condemned?
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know!
>> Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>> January 25, 2018 at 7:33 PM
>> M119 engines are pretty bulletproof. I’ve had two that had over 275k on them 
>> without ever being opened or with major work and they ran great.
>> 
>> If the M119 oiler tubes fail, which typically involves the end caps coming 
>> off, the lifters don’t pump up and the valve train “ticks”. Replacement is a 
>> simple job that takes a couple of hours to do the whole engine and no 
>> special tools.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL?

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

IF this oiler tube problem is a M119 problem, why is the 420 SEL with an 
M116 being condemned?


Inquiring minds want to know!

Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
January 25, 2018 at 7:33 PM
M119 engines are pretty bulletproof. I’ve had two that had over 275k 
on them without ever being opened or with major work and they ran great.


If the M119 oiler tubes fail, which typically involves the end caps 
coming off, the lifters don’t pump up and the valve train “ticks”. 
Replacement is a simple job that takes a couple of hours to do the 
whole engine and no special tools.


-D




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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL?

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

So are the plastic tubes only in the M119?

My understanding was that the M116 as in the 380 and 420s are ok.
I thought the M117 was ok too  (560 SE/SEL/SL)

Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
January 25, 2018 at 8:18 PM
You’re far more likely to have transmission issues in a drivetrain 
with an M119 before you have engine issues. The one thing that comes 
up with age are the oiler tubes, which are not the same as the cam 
oilers in the M117.


In the M119 there are plastic tubes about 5/16” in diameter that are 
shaped like a flattened “U”. The short ends of the “U” have O rings on 
them where the tubes are pressed into the cylinder head. On one end of 
the bottom of the “U” are caps that seal the “U” so oil flows through 
unimpeded. Tabs on the camshaft bearing caps stick out from the sides 
and hold the tubes in place in the cylinder head.


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/attachments/tech-help/22139d1100872476-m119-oil-tubes-oil-tubes.jpg

http://www.w124performance.com/images/M119/M119_oil%20tube_plastic2.jpg

As the plastic ages and gets brittle, the cap falls out of the end of 
the tube allowing oil to pour out of the tube instead of getting into 
the oil gallery in the heads that feed the lifters. As a result of the 
lack of oil, the lifters don’t pump up fully and you get clearance in 
the valve train, which causes the ticking that’s heard.


I’m not sure if Mercedes found the plastic tubes to be an issue or 
there was a change in design, because it only lasted a short time, but 
they made aluminum versions of the tubes for a while in the early 90s:


http://www.benzworld.org/forums/attachments/sale-wanted-trade-giveaway/516097d1368935335-fs-camshaft-oil-tubes-m119-oem-img_2138.jpg

There are also aftermarket versions made that are pretty pricey, 
roughly $20-$25/each (there are 16 oiler tubes in an M119).


I have aluminum tubes in the R129 I own. It had plastic tubes in it 
when I got the car, and after owning it for about a year I started 
getting the lifter “tick”. I got a set of the Mercedes aluminum tubes 
with new O rings and replaced all of them in the engine.


-D


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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL?

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

420 is a M116, same as the 380.

560 is a M117.




Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
January 25, 2018 at 5:33 PM
M117, I believe.

And no, they never used metal oiler tubes like the M119 did, only 
plastic. In which engine?


-D



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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL?

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

You’re far more likely to have transmission issues in a drivetrain with an M119 
before you have engine issues.  The one thing that comes up with age are the 
oiler tubes, which are not the same as the cam oilers in the M117.

In the M119 there are plastic tubes about 5/16” in diameter that are shaped 
like a flattened “U”.  The short ends of the “U” have O rings on them where the 
tubes are pressed into the cylinder head.  On one end of the bottom of the “U” 
are caps that seal the “U” so oil flows through unimpeded. Tabs on the camshaft 
bearing caps stick out from the sides and hold the tubes in place in the 
cylinder head.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/attachments/tech-help/22139d1100872476-m119-oil-tubes-oil-tubes.jpg

http://www.w124performance.com/images/M119/M119_oil%20tube_plastic2.jpg

As the plastic ages and gets brittle, the cap falls out of the end of the tube 
allowing oil to pour out of the tube instead of getting into the oil gallery in 
the heads that feed the lifters.  As a result of the lack of oil, the lifters 
don’t pump up fully and you get clearance in the valve train, which causes the 
ticking that’s heard.

I’m not sure if Mercedes found the plastic tubes to be an issue or there was a 
change in design, because it only lasted a short time, but they made aluminum 
versions of the tubes for a while in the early 90s:

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/attachments/sale-wanted-trade-giveaway/516097d1368935335-fs-camshaft-oil-tubes-m119-oem-img_2138.jpg

There are also aftermarket versions made that are pretty pricey, roughly 
$20-$25/each (there are 16 oiler tubes in an M119).

I have aluminum tubes in the R129 I own.  It had plastic tubes in it when I got 
the car, and after owning it for about a year I started getting the lifter 
“tick”. I got a set of the Mercedes aluminum tubes with new O rings and 
replaced all of them in the engine.

-D



> On Jan 25, 2018, at 9:03 PM, Dwight Giles  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Dan. My brother's w140 m129 has had no engine problems  but some 
> tranny wonkiness.
> 
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> Wickford RI
> 


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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL?

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Does the 560 engine use the same oiler tubes, or is this "feature" specific
to only the 420? The iron block M117 450 engine had metal oiler tubes, IIRC.
Could tubes from another engine be retrofitted to the 420?

On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 11:37 AM, Dan--- via Mercedes  wrote:

> The 420 has plastic oiler tubes in the heads which fail/leak/break and
> cause cam lobes to get worn down due to lack of lubrication.  This
> typically occurs on the right (passenger side) bank first for some reason.
>
> Also, if heads have to be removed on this engine the head bolts have a
> tendency to strip at final torque values, with redrilling and installation
> of threaded inserts requiring special jigs.
>
> -D
>
> > On Jan 25, 2018, at 11:45 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > I know the 560SEL is more desirable because the mileage difference is
> negligible between the 420 and the 560.   Is there something else that
> makes the 420 SEL less desirable?  Was there an issue with a timing chain.
> I can't remember the specifics.
> >
> > The price of this one is TOO HIGH.  But, it sure is nice.
> >
> > https://wichita.craigslist.org/cto/d/1991-mercedes-benz-
> 420sel/6471936297.html
> >
> > Don Snook
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
>
>
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-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
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1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL?

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Thanks Dan. My brother's w140 m129 has had no engine problems  but some
tranny wonkiness.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Jan 25, 2018 8:34 PM, "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> M119 engines are pretty bulletproof.  I’ve had two that had over 275k on
> them without ever being opened or with major work and they ran great.
>
> If the M119 oiler tubes fail, which typically involves the end caps coming
> off, the lifters don’t pump up and the valve train “ticks”.  Replacement is
> a simple job that takes a couple of hours to do the whole engine and no
> special tools.
>
> -D
>
> > On Jan 25, 2018, at 6:40 PM, Dwight Giles 
> wrote:
> >
> > Oh Ok. My brother has a w140 with m119 engine approaching 175k miles
> >
> > Dwight Giles Jr.
> > Wickford RI
> >
> > On Jan 25, 2018 6:33 PM, "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com > wrote:
> > M117, I believe.
> >
> > And no, they never used metal oiler tubes like the M119 did, only
> plastic.
> >
> > -D
>
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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL?

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

M119 engines are pretty bulletproof.  I’ve had two that had over 275k on them 
without ever being opened or with major work and they ran great.

If the M119 oiler tubes fail, which typically involves the end caps coming off, 
the lifters don’t pump up and the valve train “ticks”.  Replacement is a simple 
job that takes a couple of hours to do the whole engine and no special tools.

-D

> On Jan 25, 2018, at 6:40 PM, Dwight Giles  wrote:
> 
> Oh Ok. My brother has a w140 with m119 engine approaching 175k miles
> 
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> Wickford RI
> 
> On Jan 25, 2018 6:33 PM, "Dan Penoff via Mercedes"  > wrote:
> M117, I believe.
> 
> And no, they never used metal oiler tubes like the M119 did, only plastic.
> 
> -D

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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL?

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Oh Ok. My brother has a w140 with m119 engine approaching 175k miles

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Jan 25, 2018 6:33 PM, "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" 
wrote:

M117, I believe.

And no, they never used metal oiler tubes like the M119 did, only plastic.

-D


> On Jan 25, 2018, at 6:27 PM, Dwight Giles  wrote:
>
> Is that a m119?
>
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> Wickford RI
>
> On Jan 25, 2018 12:37 PM, "Dan--- via Mercedes" mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> The 420 has plastic oiler tubes in the heads which fail/leak/break and
cause cam lobes to get worn down due to lack of lubrication.  This
typically occurs on the right (passenger side) bank first for some reason.
>
> Also, if heads have to be removed on this engine the head bolts have a
tendency to strip at final torque values, with redrilling and installation
of threaded inserts requiring special jigs.
>
> -D
>
> > On Jan 25, 2018, at 11:45 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com > wrote:
> >
> > I know the 560SEL is more desirable because the mileage difference is
negligible between the 420 and the 560.   Is there something else that
makes the 420 SEL less desirable?  Was there an issue with a timing chain.
I can't remember the specifics.
> >
> > The price of this one is TOO HIGH.  But, it sure is nice.
> >
> > https://wichita.craigslist.org/cto/d/1991-mercedes-benz-
420sel/6471936297.html 
> >
> > Don Snook
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com 
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ <
http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/>
> >
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http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL?

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

M117, I believe.

And no, they never used metal oiler tubes like the M119 did, only plastic.

-D


> On Jan 25, 2018, at 6:27 PM, Dwight Giles  wrote:
> 
> Is that a m119?
> 
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> Wickford RI
> 
> On Jan 25, 2018 12:37 PM, "Dan--- via Mercedes"  > wrote:
> The 420 has plastic oiler tubes in the heads which fail/leak/break and cause 
> cam lobes to get worn down due to lack of lubrication.  This typically occurs 
> on the right (passenger side) bank first for some reason.
> 
> Also, if heads have to be removed on this engine the head bolts have a 
> tendency to strip at final torque values, with redrilling and installation of 
> threaded inserts requiring special jigs.
> 
> -D
> 
> > On Jan 25, 2018, at 11:45 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes 
> > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> >
> > I know the 560SEL is more desirable because the mileage difference is 
> > negligible between the 420 and the 560.   Is there something else that 
> > makes the 420 SEL less desirable?  Was there an issue with a timing chain.  
> > I can't remember the specifics.
> >
> > The price of this one is TOO HIGH.  But, it sure is nice.
> >
> > https://wichita.craigslist.org/cto/d/1991-mercedes-benz-420sel/6471936297.html
> >  
> > 
> >
> > Don Snook
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com 
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ 
> > 
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com 
> > 
> >
> >
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL?

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On January 25, 2018 at 2:55 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Offer half, replace the tubes, enjoy luxury...

You mean the cam oiler tubes?
If this is the engine that uses those, it might be old enough to have the 
aluminum tubes in it. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL?

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Is that a m119?

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Jan 25, 2018 12:37 PM, "Dan--- via Mercedes" 
wrote:

The 420 has plastic oiler tubes in the heads which fail/leak/break and
cause cam lobes to get worn down due to lack of lubrication.  This
typically occurs on the right (passenger side) bank first for some reason.

Also, if heads have to be removed on this engine the head bolts have a
tendency to strip at final torque values, with redrilling and installation
of threaded inserts requiring special jigs.

-D

> On Jan 25, 2018, at 11:45 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> I know the 560SEL is more desirable because the mileage difference is
negligible between the 420 and the 560.   Is there something else that
makes the 420 SEL less desirable?  Was there an issue with a timing chain.
I can't remember the specifics.
>
> The price of this one is TOO HIGH.  But, it sure is nice.
>
> https://wichita.craigslist.org/cto/d/1991-mercedes-benz-
420sel/6471936297.html
>
> Don Snook
> ___
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Offer half, replace the tubes, enjoy luxury...

-Curt
 

On Thursday, January 25, 2018, 11:45:56 AM EST, Donald Snook via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 I know the 560SEL is more desirable because the mileage difference is 
negligible between the 420 and the 560.  Is there something else that makes the 
420 SEL less desirable?  Was there an issue with a timing chain.  I can't 
remember the specifics.

The price of this one is TOO HIGH.  But, it sure is nice.

https://wichita.craigslist.org/cto/d/1991-mercedes-benz-420sel/6471936297.html

Don Snook
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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL?

[Donald Snook via Mercedes]

That was my thought too.  

Don Snook 

-Original Message-
From: Andrew Strasfogel [mailto:astrasfo...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 12:53 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 420SEL?

Sounds like a deal breaker.

On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 12:37 PM, Dan--- via Mercedes  wrote:

> The 420 has plastic oiler tubes in the heads which fail/leak/break and 
> cause cam lobes to get worn down due to lack of lubrication.  This 
> typically occurs on the right (passenger side) bank first for some reason.
>
> Also, if heads have to be removed on this engine the head bolts have a 
> tendency to strip at final torque values, with redrilling and 
> installation of threaded inserts requiring special jigs.
>
> -D
>
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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL?

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Sounds like a deal breaker.

On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 12:37 PM, Dan--- via Mercedes  wrote:

> The 420 has plastic oiler tubes in the heads which fail/leak/break and
> cause cam lobes to get worn down due to lack of lubrication.  This
> typically occurs on the right (passenger side) bank first for some reason.
>
> Also, if heads have to be removed on this engine the head bolts have a
> tendency to strip at final torque values, with redrilling and installation
> of threaded inserts requiring special jigs.
>
> -D
>
> > On Jan 25, 2018, at 11:45 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > I know the 560SEL is more desirable because the mileage difference is
> negligible between the 420 and the 560.   Is there something else that
> makes the 420 SEL less desirable?  Was there an issue with a timing chain.
> I can't remember the specifics.
> >
> > The price of this one is TOO HIGH.  But, it sure is nice.
> >
> > https://wichita.craigslist.org/cto/d/1991-mercedes-benz-
> 420sel/6471936297.html
> >
> > Don Snook
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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL?

[Dan--- via Mercedes]

The 420 has plastic oiler tubes in the heads which fail/leak/break and cause 
cam lobes to get worn down due to lack of lubrication.  This typically occurs 
on the right (passenger side) bank first for some reason.

Also, if heads have to be removed on this engine the head bolts have a tendency 
to strip at final torque values, with redrilling and installation of threaded 
inserts requiring special jigs.

-D

> On Jan 25, 2018, at 11:45 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I know the 560SEL is more desirable because the mileage difference is 
> negligible between the 420 and the 560.   Is there something else that makes 
> the 420 SEL less desirable?  Was there an issue with a timing chain.  I can't 
> remember the specifics.
> 
> The price of this one is TOO HIGH.  But, it sure is nice.
> 
> https://wichita.craigslist.org/cto/d/1991-mercedes-benz-420sel/6471936297.html
> 
> Don Snook
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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL?

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

looks like s snook mobile to me!

Are you making friends with the McPherson Community College?  I would if 
I was close!   It is the only school in the USA that trains people to 
restore MBs.   (Feeder for the CC)

Donald Snook via Mercedes 
January 25, 2018 at 10:45 AM
I know the 560SEL is more desirable because the mileage difference is 
negligible between the 420 and the 560. Is there something else that 
makes the 420 SEL less desirable? Was there an issue with a timing 
chain. I can't remember the specifics.


The price of this one is TOO HIGH. But, it sure is nice.

https://wichita.craigslist.org/cto/d/1991-mercedes-benz-420sel/6471936297.html

Don Snook


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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL turd engine test method

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

I got a title for it, but it is for an 87 Ford Ranger pickup.  I presume 
the real title burned up with the key and this is what the guy had and 
gave to the guy I bought it from.  I'm not sure how I could get a title 
or a bill of sale (I suppose I could do that but the guy doesn't have 
the title for the car he sold me) but I could probably get a BoS from 
the guy I bought it from and maybe that would keep the MB gods happy.


BTW I think the last key I got from the stealer for an SD was like $35 
or 50 if I recall.  Whatever it was, it seemed way high to me but what 
do i know.


-_FT


On 6/19/17 1:41 PM, Dan--- via Mercedes wrote:

Good point. A hard key for these should cost you less than $20 at a stealer, more like 
$12-$15 unless they're giving you the "MBCA discount".

-D


On Jun 19, 2017, at 1:39 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes  
wrote:

Personally, I'd get a key from the stealer.  That way if it is junked, you have 
a complete sent of locks and keys to sell for $$$ in place of a couple door 
handles for $10 each.
Or, if someone gets the car, then it is worth more with a working key, lock and 
steering lock.



Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
June 19, 2017 at 12:18 PM

So, I had the right idea, but the wrong implementation?
If you don't need to unlock the steering wheel, non-destructive removal of the 
ignition switch and using a screwdriver for a switch knob does indeed sound 
much easier than anything else.


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--
--FT
Winston Churchill:
“Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or 
petty,
never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the 
enemy.”


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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL turd engine test method

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

When I faced this problem with my 124 Cab, the 3 screws you reference are
covered by metal; you cannot simply unscrew them until you open up the
whole assembly.  It is a Chinese puzzle, and the only way to get it apart
was by cutting if one could not turn the ignition cylinder to position #1.
I cut through metal at the point just below the screw heads, so that the
electrical switch could be pulled off the mechanical part.

The good news is that the only piece of metal that is super hard is the
plate over the face of the tumbler, which is the part that you would have
to drill to remove the tumbler. The rest of the lock assembly is soft mild
steel, and a sawz-all or dremel tool will make short work of it.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:07 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Yes!  that is far easier than butchering.   And it is easier to take out
> the 3 screws for the electric switch than to try to saw it off.  Once the
> screws are out, you can turn the switch with a screwdriver or a needlenose.
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL turd engine test method

[Dan--- via Mercedes]

Good point. A hard key for these should cost you less than $20 at a stealer, 
more like $12-$15 unless they're giving you the "MBCA discount".

-D

> On Jun 19, 2017, at 1:39 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Personally, I'd get a key from the stealer.  That way if it is junked, you 
> have a complete sent of locks and keys to sell for $$$ in place of a couple 
> door handles for $10 each.
> Or, if someone gets the car, then it is worth more with a working key, lock 
> and steering lock.
> 
> 
>> Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
>> June 19, 2017 at 12:18 PM
>> 
>> So, I had the right idea, but the wrong implementation?
>> If you don't need to unlock the steering wheel, non-destructive removal of 
>> the ignition switch and using a screwdriver for a switch knob does indeed 
>> sound much easier than anything else.
>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL turd engine test method

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Personally, I'd get a key from the stealer.  That way if it is junked, 
you have a complete sent of locks and keys to sell for $$$ in place of a 
couple door handles for $10 each.
Or, if someone gets the car, then it is worth more with a working key, 
lock and steering lock.




Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
June 19, 2017 at 12:18 PM

So, I had the right idea, but the wrong implementation?
If you don't need to unlock the steering wheel, non-destructive 
removal of the ignition switch and using a screwdriver for a switch 
knob does indeed sound much easier than anything else.




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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL turd engine test method

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On June 19, 2017 at 1:07 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Yes!  that is far easier than butchering.   And it is easier to take out 
> the 3 screws for the electric switch than to try to saw it off.  Once 
> the screws are out, you can turn the switch with a screwdriver or a 
> needlenose.

So, I had the right idea, but the wrong implementation?
If you don't need to unlock the steering wheel, non-destructive removal of the 
ignition switch and using a screwdriver for a switch knob does indeed sound 
much easier than anything else.

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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL turd engine test method

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

that does not stop you from unplugging at the engine and hotwiring the 
engine there.  You need far to the coil; Benzine though the injection 
system and into the cylinder, and air through the finlter and intake 
system.  Add compression and far the spark at the right time, and you 
should have far in the hole!



Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
June 19, 2017 at 9:24 AM
I'm under the impression that in order to unplug the switch wiring harness
from the back of the switch, one needs to have the key in the switch in
position 1. Floyd has no key for this car.

-
Max
Charleston SC


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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL turd engine test method

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Yes!  that is far easier than butchering.   And it is easier to take out 
the 3 screws for the electric switch than to try to saw it off.  Once 
the screws are out, you can turn the switch with a screwdriver or a 
needlenose.



Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
June 19, 2017 at 7:37 AM
If you just want to test the engine, unplug the switch wiring harness, 
jump the appropriate terminals for run, and temporarily jump the 
terminals for start.


Mitch.


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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL turd engine test method

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

That is correct.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 19, 2017, at 9:24 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm under the impression that in order to unplug the switch wiring harness
> from the back of the switch, one needs to have the key in the switch in
> position 1.  Floyd has no key for this car.
> 
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> 
> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 8:37 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> If you just want to test the engine, unplug the switch wiring harness,
>> jump the appropriate terminals for run, and temporarily jump the terminals
>> for start.
>> 
>> Mitch.
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL turd engine test method

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

I'm under the impression that in order to unplug the switch wiring harness
from the back of the switch, one needs to have the key in the switch in
position 1.  Floyd has no key for this car.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 8:37 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> If you just want to test the engine, unplug the switch wiring harness,
> jump the appropriate terminals for run, and temporarily jump the terminals
> for start.
>
> Mitch.
>
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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL turd engine test method

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

If you just want to test the engine, unplug the switch wiring harness, jump the 
appropriate terminals for run, and temporarily jump the terminals for start. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Dimitri, I have a garage full of belts (slight exaggeration). I would have
gladly given you one had you but asked  What brought you to town anyway?

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes  wrote:

> I took a road trip to DC a couple months ago. Broke down couple hours into
> the trip- alt belt broke. Fixed it myself with spare in a pep boys parking
> lot in pouring rain but alternator adjustment rack and geared bolt stripped
> so couldn't property tighten. Good enough for another hours worth of
> driving. Stopped at a friends house overnight then woke up next am and
> begged the local stealership to rig it so I could get to DC. They did me
> that favor and only charged me $150! While waiting in the lobby I was
> thinking that I should cash out refi my house and buy a spanking new S
> class and be done with such road trip nightmares. Then reality set in and I
> just drove my "trusty" old 240D to Washington and wrenched on my friends
> old benz for the next three days!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jan 17, 2017, at 9:40 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > absolutely!   I still hate gassers but dads will do crazy things for
> daughters who don't hate gassers.
> >
> >> Dimitri via Mercedes 
> >> January 17, 2017 at 6:49 AM
> >> Wow crazy story! If it were a diesel you'd be home with a new car!
> >
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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL

[Dimitri via Mercedes]

I took a road trip to DC a couple months ago. Broke down couple hours into the 
trip- alt belt broke. Fixed it myself with spare in a pep boys parking lot in 
pouring rain but alternator adjustment rack and geared bolt stripped so 
couldn't property tighten. Good enough for another hours worth of driving. 
Stopped at a friends house overnight then woke up next am and begged the local 
stealership to rig it so I could get to DC. They did me that favor and only 
charged me $150! While waiting in the lobby I was thinking that I should cash 
out refi my house and buy a spanking new S class and be done with such road 
trip nightmares. Then reality set in and I just drove my "trusty" old 240D to 
Washington and wrenched on my friends old benz for the next three days!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 17, 2017, at 9:40 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> absolutely!   I still hate gassers but dads will do crazy things for 
> daughters who don't hate gassers.
> 
>> Dimitri via Mercedes 
>> January 17, 2017 at 6:49 AM
>> Wow crazy story! If it were a diesel you'd be home with a new car!
> 
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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

Andy ain't probly not ridden da dog

Remember Elvis?

I left my home in Norfolk Virginia
California on my mind
I straddled that Greyhound
And rode into Raleigh and on across Caroline

We had motor trouble that turn into a struggle
Halfway across Alabama
And that hound broke down and left us all stranded
In downtown Birmingham

--R


On 1/17/17 1:08 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

I am so dense. D'OH!

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 12:14 PM, Kyle Arola via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Grayhound.  The poor man's airplane.

Kyle

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 12:13 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Epic tale - and as a bonus it was totally devoid of political content!
Congrats!!

What is "riding the dog"?

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 9:45 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


I thought tank screen first, but since it had good pressure and flow at
the dist, fuel appears to be getting past the fuel screen.  New Fuel

pumps

seemed to be running normally. (not starving)

Screen at dist, Dist/injectors...  good possibility of costing more

than

the car, except the screen.

Max Dillon via Mercedes 

January 17, 2017 at 8:08 AM
I'm thinking rust in the gas tank, stirred up by the driving and then
adding fresh gas.



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--
--FT
Winston Churchill:
“Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or 
petty,
never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the 
enemy.”

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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL

[MG via Mercedes]

It was certainly great to have you stay over, All in all a good 
Q. Damie had a good time as did everyone else. I know June and I 
did.


Manfred

Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
I got there Thurs morning to pick up the car.  It started and idled and 
revved up ok in the parking lot.  Very solid car that had been 
maintained, but sat for the last 2 years (according to seller)  It may 
have sat for 4 or 5 years.

Dash was uncracked.  very quiet and smooth running.  Under 100k miles.

I drove it 3-4 blocks to the gas station to dilute the stale gas.  As I 
turned into the station, it started to miss.  I put 10 gal of gas in it, 
and figured that would straighten it out, or it needed a filter.  I let 
it run in the parking lot a while and it seemed ok.  Took off to buy 
some new tars, and it acted like it ran out of gas.  Restarted, repeat. 
etc. until I got to pep boys.  NO filter there.  There was a oreally 
across from the gas station, so I headed there, again running 100' to 
100 yards at a time before it died.  Made it there to oreally.  No 
filter, but they will have one at 3 pm.  So, I waited the 3 hrs.  got 
the filter, thne drove around to find a place I could get the back tires 
up on a curb so I could crawl under.  Changed filter.  Had a gas leak.  
Took it out and tried again.  This time, no leak.  no  improvement.


So I pulled off the air cleaner. discovered the lines out of the fuel 
distr are 12mm.  no 12 mm wrench along...  I cracked the fuel line 
before and after the dealie by the distr. (pressure regulator?)  Good 
flow and good pressure at both places.  It seems like there is good 
clean fuel to the distr.   I got it running again, but still missing.  
Decided to try to get it back to PO or at least to oreally.  It missed 
and sputtered going down the street, then took off like a raped ape for 
a second or two, it seemed to be running on all 8 cyl.  It seemed for a 
second that it had passed whatever (was causing the problem) and would 
be ok.  Then it died.  It would not restart.  After several restart 
tries, I pushed it back so cars could get around and stop at the stop sign.


finally called AAA.  while waiting an  hour for them, I remembered the 
300TE and how it acted when the coil died.  It was very similar, and I 
thought it was fuel starvation.  So when the tow truck came, I had him 
pull it to oreally.  No coil for the car there, and none in Fla.  I 
bought a generic coil and put it in.  Still no improvement.


I had contacted Dan and he recommended a place for diagnosis.  It was  
about 7 blocks away, so I decided to try getting there.  It was now 
dark.  I got it running fairly well, so I thought it might be able to 
make it to the shop.  it was about the same distance to that shop or to 
the PO.  PO said he would not be around Friday.  I got a few blocks, and 
it died in an intersection.  I pushed it out of the intersection and 
kept trying to restart with no luck.  I was passed by 4 empty roll offs 
and 3 empty tow trucks, but none seemed interested in a fare.  I finally 
called for a tow.  Then a guy stopped and offered to tow for $40 while 
the place I called had a $75 hook up charge, So I hired him and 
cancelled the other guy.  I debated taking to the shop or just towing 
back to the PO.  I went ahead and took it to the shop.


Then I had to carry my stuff the mile or so to the closest hotel.  Got 
there, and they said my reservation was for jan22, no rooms, etc (take a 
hike) The desk guy was the first rude aussie I ever encountered.  After 
40 min on hold on their 800 number, I noticed the nasty aussie dude was 
gone and two ladies were at the counter.  I went up and explained the 
problem to them and asked if they could help.  It turned out one was the 
General Manager.  She found a room for me.


Over night I was thinking about the situation, and if I should spend 
money to fix the car or just take it back.  I got up early and walked to 
the shop where the car was before they opened.  Explained to the owner 
what happened, and he said it would cost a min of $105 to diagnose, then 
it could be a fuel distributor or any number of items.($$$ to )  
Before starting the work, I decided to check with Dan.  He said he would 
haul me up to Manfred's.  That was a big point of decision.  I decided 
to cut my losses, called the tow truck again, and waited.


When the truck came, I had him haul it up to the PO.  I took some 
pictures to prove to the PO i had returned it.  Sat in the dead car and 
pondered what next.  So I called a friend who used to live in the St. 
Pete area because I figured he might be in FL now.   He was but was 
in far S FL camping on Marco Island.  I walked to the end of the block 
where a little food stand was next to a handrolled cigar factory.  I got 
a pork sanwich and a lime ade.  THAT was super!  It was a GREAT cuban 
sandwich.  Walked back to the car and was gathering up my stuff for the 
walk back to the hotel, when the PO drove in.  We m

Re: [MBZ] 420SEL

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

smoke silver, clear gone.  1990 Tampa  98k miles, but odo broken now.  
You gonna haul it  back to Mobile for me?



Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
January 17, 2017 at 1:16 PM
It sounds like it was a nice car except for the fuel issue. The screen 
at the distributor is just the adaptor between the line and the 
distributor. You just unscrew it and blow it out. Remind me again what 
the story was with the car, color, miles, year, location, price etc.


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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

It sounds like it was a nice car except for the fuel issue. The screen at the 
distributor is just the adaptor between the line and the distributor. You just 
unscrew it and blow it out. Remind me again what the story was with the car, 
color, miles, year, location, price etc.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 17, 2017, at 8:45 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I thought tank screen first, but since it had good pressure and flow at the 
> dist, fuel appears to be getting past the fuel screen.  New Fuel pumps seemed 
> to be running normally. (not starving)
> 
> Screen at dist, Dist/injectors...  good possibility of costing more than the 
> car, except the screen.
> 
>> Max Dillon via Mercedes 
>> January 17, 2017 at 8:08 AM
>> I'm thinking rust in the gas tank, stirred up by the driving and then adding 
>> fresh gas.
>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Only 3 more days until we are liberated from the little dictator.

(obummer voice)  uh, don't let the door hit me in the a$$ on the 
way out.



Tighten the spring!

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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I am so dense. D'OH!

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 12:14 PM, Kyle Arola via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Grayhound.  The poor man's airplane.
>
> Kyle
>
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 12:13 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Epic tale - and as a bonus it was totally devoid of political content!
> > Congrats!!
> >
> > What is "riding the dog"?
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 9:45 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I thought tank screen first, but since it had good pressure and flow at
> > > the dist, fuel appears to be getting past the fuel screen.  New Fuel
> > pumps
> > > seemed to be running normally. (not starving)
> > >
> > > Screen at dist, Dist/injectors...  good possibility of costing more
> than
> > > the car, except the screen.
> > >
> > > Max Dillon via Mercedes 
> > >> January 17, 2017 at 8:08 AM
> > >> I'm thinking rust in the gas tank, stirred up by the driving and then
> > >> adding fresh gas.
> > >>
> > >>
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Epic tale - and as a bonus it was totally devoid of political content!
Congrats!!

What is "riding the dog"?

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 9:45 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I thought tank screen first, but since it had good pressure and flow at
> the dist, fuel appears to be getting past the fuel screen.  New Fuel pumps
> seemed to be running normally. (not starving)
>
> Screen at dist, Dist/injectors...  good possibility of costing more than
> the car, except the screen.
>
> Max Dillon via Mercedes 
>> January 17, 2017 at 8:08 AM
>> I'm thinking rust in the gas tank, stirred up by the driving and then
>> adding fresh gas.
>>
>>
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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL

[Kyle Arola via Mercedes]

Grayhound.  The poor man's airplane.

Kyle

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 12:13 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Epic tale - and as a bonus it was totally devoid of political content!
> Congrats!!
>
> What is "riding the dog"?
>
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 9:45 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > I thought tank screen first, but since it had good pressure and flow at
> > the dist, fuel appears to be getting past the fuel screen.  New Fuel
> pumps
> > seemed to be running normally. (not starving)
> >
> > Screen at dist, Dist/injectors...  good possibility of costing more than
> > the car, except the screen.
> >
> > Max Dillon via Mercedes 
> >> January 17, 2017 at 8:08 AM
> >> I'm thinking rust in the gas tank, stirred up by the driving and then
> >> adding fresh gas.
> >>
> >>
> > ___
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> >
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> >
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

I thought tank screen first, but since it had good pressure and flow at 
the dist, fuel appears to be getting past the fuel screen.  New Fuel 
pumps seemed to be running normally. (not starving)


Screen at dist, Dist/injectors...  good possibility of costing more than 
the car, except the screen.



Max Dillon via Mercedes 
January 17, 2017 at 8:08 AM
I'm thinking rust in the gas tank, stirred up by the driving and then 
adding fresh gas.




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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

absolutely!   I still hate gassers but dads will do crazy things for 
daughters who don't hate gassers.



Dimitri via Mercedes 
January 17, 2017 at 6:49 AM
Wow crazy story! If it were a diesel you'd be home with a new car!


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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

I'm thinking rust in the gas tank, stirred up by the driving and then adding 
fresh gas.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

If it has been sitting that long the fuel system was probably all junked up, 
either the distributor or the injectors or both. Might have had fouled plugs. 
There is a little screen at the fuel intake side of the distributor. You just 
remove the line then remove the little connector/adapter thing. Of course there 
is a screen in the tank as well. 

Sounds like a trip from hell. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 16, 2017, at 11:18 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I got there Thurs morning to pick up the car.  It started and idled and 
> revved up ok in the parking lot.  Very solid car that had been maintained, 
> but sat for the last 2 years (according to seller)  It may have sat for 4 or 
> 5 years.
> Dash was uncracked.  very quiet and smooth running.  Under 100k miles.
> 
> I drove it 3-4 blocks to the gas station to dilute the stale gas.  As I 
> turned into the station, it started to miss.  I put 10 gal of gas in it, and 
> figured that would straighten it out, or it needed a filter.  I let it run in 
> the parking lot a while and it seemed ok.  Took off to buy some new tars, and 
> it acted like it ran out of gas.  Restarted, repeat. etc. until I got to pep 
> boys.  NO filter there.  There was a oreally across from the gas station, so 
> I headed there, again running 100' to 100 yards at a time before it died.  
> Made it there to oreally.  No filter, but they will have one at 3 pm.  So, I 
> waited the 3 hrs.  got the filter, thne drove around to find a place I could 
> get the back tires up on a curb so I could crawl under.  Changed filter.  Had 
> a gas leak.  Took it out and tried again.  This time, no leak.  no  
> improvement.
> 
> So I pulled off the air cleaner. discovered the lines out of the fuel distr 
> are 12mm.  no 12 mm wrench along...  I cracked the fuel line before and after 
> the dealie by the distr. (pressure regulator?)  Good flow and good pressure 
> at both places.  It seems like there is good clean fuel to the distr.   I got 
> it running again, but still missing.  Decided to try to get it back to PO or 
> at least to oreally.  It missed and sputtered going down the street, then 
> took off like a raped ape for a second or two, it seemed to be running on all 
> 8 cyl.  It seemed for a second that it had passed whatever (was causing the 
> problem) and would be ok.  Then it died.  It would not restart.  After 
> several restart tries, I pushed it back so cars could get around and stop at 
> the stop sign.
> 
> finally called AAA.  while waiting an  hour for them, I remembered the 300TE 
> and how it acted when the coil died.  It was very similar, and I thought it 
> was fuel starvation.  So when the tow truck came, I had him pull it to 
> oreally.  No coil for the car there, and none in Fla.  I bought a generic 
> coil and put it in.  Still no improvement.
> 
> I had contacted Dan and he recommended a place for diagnosis.  It was  about 
> 7 blocks away, so I decided to try getting there.  It was now dark.  I got it 
> running fairly well, so I thought it might be able to make it to the shop.  
> it was about the same distance to that shop or to the PO.  PO said he would 
> not be around Friday.  I got a few blocks, and it died in an intersection.  I 
> pushed it out of the intersection and kept trying to restart with no luck.  I 
> was passed by 4 empty roll offs and 3 empty tow trucks, but none seemed 
> interested in a fare.  I finally called for a tow.  Then a guy stopped and 
> offered to tow for $40 while the place I called had a $75 hook up charge, So 
> I hired him and cancelled the other guy.  I debated taking to the shop or 
> just towing back to the PO.  I went ahead and took it to the shop.
> 
> Then I had to carry my stuff the mile or so to the closest hotel.  Got there, 
> and they said my reservation was for jan22, no rooms, etc (take a hike) The 
> desk guy was the first rude aussie I ever encountered.  After 40 min on hold 
> on their 800 number, I noticed the nasty aussie dude was gone and two ladies 
> were at the counter.  I went up and explained the problem to them and asked 
> if they could help.  It turned out one was the General Manager.  She found a 
> room for me.
> 
> Over night I was thinking about the situation, and if I should spend money to 
> fix the car or just take it back.  I got up early and walked to the shop 
> where the car was before they opened.  Explained to the owner what happened, 
> and he said it would cost a min of $105 to diagnose, then it could be a fuel 
> distributor or any number of items.($$$ to )  Before starting the work, I 
> decided to check with Dan.  He said he would haul me up to Manfred's.  That 
> was a big point of decision.  I decided to cut my losses, called the tow 
> truck again, and waited.
> 
> When the truck came, I had him haul it up to the PO.  I took some pictures to 
> prove to the PO i had returned it.  Sat in the dead car and pondered what 
> next.  So I called a friend who used to live

Re: [MBZ] 420SEL

[Dimitri via Mercedes]

Wow crazy story! If it were a diesel you'd be home with a new car! 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 17, 2017, at 12:18 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I got there Thurs morning to pick up the car.  It started and idled and 
> revved up ok in the parking lot.  Very solid car that had been maintained, 
> but sat for the last 2 years (according to seller)  It may have sat for 4 or 
> 5 years.
> Dash was uncracked.  very quiet and smooth running.  Under 100k miles.
> 
> I drove it 3-4 blocks to the gas station to dilute the stale gas.  As I 
> turned into the station, it started to miss.  I put 10 gal of gas in it, and 
> figured that would straighten it out, or it needed a filter.  I let it run in 
> the parking lot a while and it seemed ok.  Took off to buy some new tars, and 
> it acted like it ran out of gas.  Restarted, repeat. etc. until I got to pep 
> boys.  NO filter there.  There was a oreally across from the gas station, so 
> I headed there, again running 100' to 100 yards at a time before it died.  
> Made it there to oreally.  No filter, but they will have one at 3 pm.  So, I 
> waited the 3 hrs.  got the filter, thne drove around to find a place I could 
> get the back tires up on a curb so I could crawl under.  Changed filter.  Had 
> a gas leak.  Took it out and tried again.  This time, no leak.  no  
> improvement.
> 
> So I pulled off the air cleaner. discovered the lines out of the fuel distr 
> are 12mm.  no 12 mm wrench along...  I cracked the fuel line before and after 
> the dealie by the distr. (pressure regulator?)  Good flow and good pressure 
> at both places.  It seems like there is good clean fuel to the distr.   I got 
> it running again, but still missing.  Decided to try to get it back to PO or 
> at least to oreally.  It missed and sputtered going down the street, then 
> took off like a raped ape for a second or two, it seemed to be running on all 
> 8 cyl.  It seemed for a second that it had passed whatever (was causing the 
> problem) and would be ok.  Then it died.  It would not restart.  After 
> several restart tries, I pushed it back so cars could get around and stop at 
> the stop sign.
> 
> finally called AAA.  while waiting an  hour for them, I remembered the 300TE 
> and how it acted when the coil died.  It was very similar, and I thought it 
> was fuel starvation.  So when the tow truck came, I had him pull it to 
> oreally.  No coil for the car there, and none in Fla.  I bought a generic 
> coil and put it in.  Still no improvement.
> 
> I had contacted Dan and he recommended a place for diagnosis.  It was  about 
> 7 blocks away, so I decided to try getting there.  It was now dark.  I got it 
> running fairly well, so I thought it might be able to make it to the shop.  
> it was about the same distance to that shop or to the PO.  PO said he would 
> not be around Friday.  I got a few blocks, and it died in an intersection.  I 
> pushed it out of the intersection and kept trying to restart with no luck.  I 
> was passed by 4 empty roll offs and 3 empty tow trucks, but none seemed 
> interested in a fare.  I finally called for a tow.  Then a guy stopped and 
> offered to tow for $40 while the place I called had a $75 hook up charge, So 
> I hired him and cancelled the other guy.  I debated taking to the shop or 
> just towing back to the PO.  I went ahead and took it to the shop.
> 
> Then I had to carry my stuff the mile or so to the closest hotel.  Got there, 
> and they said my reservation was for jan22, no rooms, etc (take a hike) The 
> desk guy was the first rude aussie I ever encountered.  After 40 min on hold 
> on their 800 number, I noticed the nasty aussie dude was gone and two ladies 
> were at the counter.  I went up and explained the problem to them and asked 
> if they could help.  It turned out one was the General Manager.  She found a 
> room for me.
> 
> Over night I was thinking about the situation, and if I should spend money to 
> fix the car or just take it back.  I got up early and walked to the shop 
> where the car was before they opened.  Explained to the owner what happened, 
> and he said it would cost a min of $105 to diagnose, then it could be a fuel 
> distributor or any number of items.($$$ to )  Before starting the work, I 
> decided to check with Dan.  He said he would haul me up to Manfred's.  That 
> was a big point of decision.  I decided to cut my losses, called the tow 
> truck again, and waited.
> 
> When the truck came, I had him haul it up to the PO.  I took some pictures to 
> prove to the PO i had returned it.  Sat in the dead car and pondered what 
> next.  So I called a friend who used to live in the St. Pete area because I 
> figured he might be in FL now.   He was but was in far S FL camping on 
> Marco Island.  I walked to the end of the block where a little food stand was 
> next to a handrolled cigar factory.  I got a pork sanwich and a lime ade.  
> THAT was super!  It was a GREAT cuban sandw

Re: [MBZ] 420SEL

[Kyle Arola via Mercedes]

Epic tale of dragons, suffering, perseverence, and friendship!

Sorry you didn't get the car. Glad you have friends.

Kyle

On Jan 17, 2017 12:18 AM, "Curley McLain via Mercedes" <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I got there Thurs morning to pick up the car.  It started and idled and
> revved up ok in the parking lot.  Very solid car that had been maintained,
> but sat for the last 2 years (according to seller)  It may have sat for 4
> or 5 years.
> Dash was uncracked.  very quiet and smooth running.  Under 100k miles.
>
> I drove it 3-4 blocks to the gas station to dilute the stale gas.  As I
> turned into the station, it started to miss.  I put 10 gal of gas in it,
> and figured that would straighten it out, or it needed a filter.  I let it
> run in the parking lot a while and it seemed ok.  Took off to buy some new
> tars, and it acted like it ran out of gas.  Restarted, repeat. etc. until I
> got to pep boys.  NO filter there.  There was a oreally across from the gas
> station, so I headed there, again running 100' to 100 yards at a time
> before it died.  Made it there to oreally.  No filter, but they will have
> one at 3 pm.  So, I waited the 3 hrs.  got the filter, thne drove around to
> find a place I could get the back tires up on a curb so I could crawl
> under.  Changed filter.  Had a gas leak.  Took it out and tried again.
> This time, no leak.  no  improvement.
>
> So I pulled off the air cleaner. discovered the lines out of the fuel
> distr are 12mm.  no 12 mm wrench along...  I cracked the fuel line before
> and after the dealie by the distr. (pressure regulator?)  Good flow and
> good pressure at both places.  It seems like there is good clean fuel to
> the distr.   I got it running again, but still missing.  Decided to try to
> get it back to PO or at least to oreally.  It missed and sputtered going
> down the street, then took off like a raped ape for a second or two, it
> seemed to be running on all 8 cyl.  It seemed for a second that it had
> passed whatever (was causing the problem) and would be ok.  Then it died.
> It would not restart.  After several restart tries, I pushed it back so
> cars could get around and stop at the stop sign.
>
> finally called AAA.  while waiting an  hour for them, I remembered the
> 300TE and how it acted when the coil died.  It was very similar, and I
> thought it was fuel starvation.  So when the tow truck came, I had him pull
> it to oreally.  No coil for the car there, and none in Fla.  I bought a
> generic coil and put it in.  Still no improvement.
>
> I had contacted Dan and he recommended a place for diagnosis.  It was
> about 7 blocks away, so I decided to try getting there.  It was now dark.
> I got it running fairly well, so I thought it might be able to make it to
> the shop.  it was about the same distance to that shop or to the PO.  PO
> said he would not be around Friday.  I got a few blocks, and it died in an
> intersection.  I pushed it out of the intersection and kept trying to
> restart with no luck.  I was passed by 4 empty roll offs and 3 empty tow
> trucks, but none seemed interested in a fare.  I finally called for a tow.
> Then a guy stopped and offered to tow for $40 while the place I called had
> a $75 hook up charge, So I hired him and cancelled the other guy.  I
> debated taking to the shop or just towing back to the PO.  I went ahead and
> took it to the shop.
>
> Then I had to carry my stuff the mile or so to the closest hotel.  Got
> there, and they said my reservation was for jan22, no rooms, etc (take a
> hike) The desk guy was the first rude aussie I ever encountered.  After 40
> min on hold on their 800 number, I noticed the nasty aussie dude was gone
> and two ladies were at the counter.  I went up and explained the problem to
> them and asked if they could help.  It turned out one was the General
> Manager.  She found a room for me.
>
> Over night I was thinking about the situation, and if I should spend money
> to fix the car or just take it back.  I got up early and walked to the shop
> where the car was before they opened.  Explained to the owner what
> happened, and he said it would cost a min of $105 to diagnose, then it
> could be a fuel distributor or any number of items.($$$ to )  Before
> starting the work, I decided to check with Dan.  He said he would haul me
> up to Manfred's.  That was a big point of decision.  I decided to cut my
> losses, called the tow truck again, and waited.
>
> When the truck came, I had him haul it up to the PO.  I took some pictures
> to prove to the PO i had returned it.  Sat in the dead car and pondered
> what next.  So I called a friend who used to live in the St. Pete area
> because I figured he might be in FL now.   He was but was in far S FL
> camping on Marco Island.  I walked to the end of the block where a little
> food stand was next to a handrolled cigar factory.  I got a pork sanwich
> and a lime ade.  THAT was super!  It was a GREAT cuban sandwich.  Walked
> bac

Re: [MBZ] 420SEL with no reverse down to $1750

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Offer the guy $1500 and see if he bites.  For that it looks like it would be a 
nice car.  If you’re living right, it only need linkage bushings.  If not, just 
don’t park it where you can’t pull through.

He sounds like he’s dumped a lot of money into it and finally said “Enough!”

I don’t get why people get all moist about cocoa mats.  I think they’re an 
abomination in a Mercedes.

Dan


> On Apr 9, 2016, at 8:46 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I don't want to become Kleb but the car actually looks fairly nice, I like 
> that color
> 
> --R
> 


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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL with no reverse down to $1750

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

I don't want to become Kleb but the car actually looks fairly nice, I 
like that color


--R

On 4/9/16 8:33 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

With those kinds of miles it’s probably going to need a timing chain and 
possibly a cam or two soon.

Unless you want a nice beater to drive around until it pukes, I would pass.

Dan



On Apr 9, 2016, at 6:15 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes  
wrote:

https://charleston.craigslist.org/cto/5529003476.html

--R

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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL with no reverse down to $1750

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

With those kinds of miles it’s probably going to need a timing chain and 
possibly a cam or two soon.

Unless you want a nice beater to drive around until it pukes, I would pass.

Dan


> On Apr 9, 2016, at 6:15 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> https://charleston.craigslist.org/cto/5529003476.html
> 
> --R
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL with no reverse down to $1750

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

No way Jose.  Archaic old model with no chance for appreciation.

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 6:15 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> https://charleston.craigslist.org/cto/5529003476.html
>
> --R
>
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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL looks half nice

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

Like that color combo

--R

On 2/22/16 8:56 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

This one is much nicer:

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/sale-wanted-trade-giveaway/2571994-sale-1988-420-sel-blue-diamond.html#post13866370
 


Dan



On Feb 22, 2016, at 1:54 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes  
wrote:

https://charleston.craigslist.org/cto/5458979330.html

--R

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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL looks half nice

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

This one is much nicer:

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/sale-wanted-trade-giveaway/2571994-sale-1988-420-sel-blue-diamond.html#post13866370
 


Dan


> On Feb 22, 2016, at 1:54 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> https://charleston.craigslist.org/cto/5458979330.html
> 
> --R
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL looks half nice

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I guess you can drive forward until further notice.  What's a rebuilt
transmission going to cost for that model?

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 1:54 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> https://charleston.craigslist.org/cto/5458979330.html
>
> --R
>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL timing chain/valve job

[David Brodbeck]

Mitch Haley wrote:
> Jim Cathey wrote:
>   
>> Our ISP, as a service enhancement, has eliminated our webmail interface.
>> 
>
> I suppose you could either call tech support and ask them to delete the
> 6mb email message (I did that once back when my modem was 14.4k) or use
> something like Yahoo mail to download/delete your messages, and the
> forward the important ones back to yourself. I know Yahoo has a POP
> download feature, I would assume Gmail has it too.
>   

I once resorted to telnetting into a POP server to manually delete a
troublesome message that my email client couldn't handle.  It turns out
POP is an easy protocol to deal with -- most of the commands are plain
English.

Re: [MBZ] 420SEL timing chain/valve job

[Mitch Haley]

Jim Cathey wrote:
> 
> Our ISP, as a service enhancement, has eliminated our webmail interface.

I suppose you could either call tech support and ask them to delete the
6mb email message (I did that once back when my modem was 14.4k) or use
something like Yahoo mail to download/delete your messages, and the
forward the important ones back to yourself. I know Yahoo has a POP
download feature, I would assume Gmail has it too.
Mitch.

Re: [MBZ] 420SEL timing chain/valve job

[Jim Cathey]

After five minutes, I accessed my ISP's webmail client, which is slower
than molasses when email is downloading. Found an email with a couple
of 2mb jpegs in it, deleted it, problem solved.


Our ISP, as a service enhancement, has eliminated our webmail interface.

Unless we pay extra.

-- Jim

Re: [MBZ] 420SEL timing chain/valve job

[Trampas]

I am sorry for the large attachments I had assumed that they would be stored
on the server and linked. 

Trampas

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Rick Knoble
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 10:33 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 420SEL timing chain/valve job

Guess we are doing attachments again? I pity anyone on dial-up...
Rick Knoble 
'85 300 CD
'87 190 DT

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Re: [MBZ] 420SEL timing chain/valve job

[Mitch Haley]

Jim Cathey wrote:
> 
> Ouch!  Good thing our wireless link to the ISP was working, on
> dial-up that would have choked our connection for an hour.  (And
> with no way to skip past it, either.)

After five minutes, I accessed my ISP's webmail client, which is slower
than molasses when email is downloading. Found an email with a couple
of 2mb jpegs in it, deleted it, problem solved.

Re: [MBZ] 420SEL timing chain/valve job

[Jim Cathey]

They were obviously fresh off a digital camera.


Here at casa del old crap there's no problem with that.  Our digicam
usually coughs out 512x342 sized pictures, and has a serial port as the
only way to offload them.

-- Jim

Re: [MBZ] 420SEL timing chain/valve job

[David Brodbeck]

Craig McCluskey wrote:
> Yes, especially ones that are 6.02 MEGAbytes in size!!!
>   

They were obviously fresh off a digital camera.  It's important to run
pictures like that through an image editing program to compress them and
reduce their size before posting them to the Internet.  The need for
this isn't as obvious when you look at them on your hard disk, of course.

Re: [MBZ] 420SEL timing chain/valve job

[Jim Cathey]

Ouch!  Good thing our wireless link to the ISP was working, on
dial-up that would have choked our connection for an hour.  (And
with no way to skip past it, either.)

I thought our list didn't let such attachments through, but vectored
them off to the side for selective retrieval?

-- Jim