Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D
You can easily confirm this if you get an IR thermometer and measure the temperature of both the inlet and outlet of the radiator when the engine is warmed up. You should see a noticeable temperature drop from inlet to outlet, even with the car sitting still and idling. A good justification to buy a cheap HF IR thermometer. If the radiator is clogged, the outlet temperature of the radiator can be _colder_ than it ought to be, because the small amount of coolant getting through is getting well-cooled on the way. Alternately, if you've still got good flow through only a bit of the radiator it'll be _hotter_ than it ought to be. Fun, innit? Brings back memories of my two least-favorite college classes: Heat Transfer and Thermogoddamics. On the clogged ones I've experienced the one constant is that if you run your hand all over the interior surface you will find hot and cold spots, rather than an even gradient from the hot end to the not-quite-so- hot end. You can't 'rod out' these plastic/aluminum radiators, but you can use the citric acid flush on them. If it fixes it, great. If it doesn't, or opens up a leak, well you're not out much money and only a bit of time. The citric acid cleans out the interior of the head too, so you probably want to do it anyway. Aluminum oxides don't transmit heat too well. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D
It has been my experience that if the core is clogged, a citric acid flush is not going to accomplish much, ad the solution can't get to the clogged portion of the core. That is, it can't flow past or through the clogged areas. It may clear out the parts that are partially clogged, but the totally blocked tubes will remain that way. That being said, you have nothing to lose other than the time and materials involved in doing it. Dan Sent from my iPod On May 22, 2011, at 8:50 AM, Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote: You can easily confirm this if you get an IR thermometer and measure the temperature of both the inlet and outlet of the radiator when the engine is warmed up. You should see a noticeable temperature drop from inlet to outlet, even with the car sitting still and idling. A good justification to buy a cheap HF IR thermometer. If the radiator is clogged, the outlet temperature of the radiator can be _colder_ than it ought to be, because the small amount of coolant getting through is getting well-cooled on the way. Alternately, if you've still got good flow through only a bit of the radiator it'll be _hotter_ than it ought to be. Fun, innit? Brings back memories of my two least-favorite college classes: Heat Transfer and Thermogoddamics. On the clogged ones I've experienced the one constant is that if you run your hand all over the interior surface you will find hot and cold spots, rather than an even gradient from the hot end to the not-quite-so- hot end. You can't 'rod out' these plastic/aluminum radiators, but you can use the citric acid flush on them. If it fixes it, great. If it doesn't, or opens up a leak, well you're not out much money and only a bit of time. The citric acid cleans out the interior of the head too, so you probably want to do it anyway. Aluminum oxides don't transmit heat too well. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D
With hot and running look around for leaks. As for why it is running hot i would guess the radiator is clogged. Does the electric fan clutch kick in? Sent from my iPhone On May 21, 2011, at 8:34 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: So my '84 190D has always run hot, the needle would go up to around 95 and drop back down and up and down slowly while driving but it was never an issue, now with the arrival of warmer weather it seems to be getting worse. So yesterday I put a thermostat in it, Rusty had sent me one some time ago and I only now got to it. Lousy job thermostats and I hate working on the cooling system anyway. It doesn't seem to have changed anything. I did notice that the coolant was down a bit before I started and it SEEMS like the missing coolant is sprayed on the engine between the CC actuator and the valve cover. It doesn't seem like there are any hoses around to do that so my latest guess is that the coolant bottle is leaking from like a pinhole leak. How would I best test for that? Other ideas? -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D
Pressure test -- leaks are obvious by drips or hissing. I would guess you do not have a functioning main fan -- they have an electric clutch on that model, and you are only getting cooling from the electric fan, hence heating to 95C or so up and down. If the fans work properly, and there are not leaks, I would verify that the radiator is not clogged, and if it is, replace it. Also check the water pump -- if someone has been using green coolant in it, the impeller is likely corroded and hence the coolant doesn't circulate properly. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D
So my '84 190D has always run hot, the needle would go up to around 95 and drop back down and up and down slowly while driving but it was never an issue, now with the arrival of warmer weather it seems to be getting worse. If it's not the thermostat, chances are that it's the radiator. Try a citric acid flush, you can use your old thermostat to make the flushing tool. You did double-check the head temperature with an IR thermometer to make sure you don't have a gauge/sender problem, right? -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D
If you pull the radiator, just stick a garden hose in the inlet and see how much comes out the bottom - you'll know if it's clogged. Not uncommon for a radiator to be clogged in a car that old. Usually under $100 to have it rodded out. Dan From: Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D So my '84 190D has always run hot, the needle would go up to around 95 and drop back down and up and down slowly while driving but it was never an issue, now with the arrival of warmer weather it seems to be getting worse. If it's not the thermostat, chances are that it's the radiator. Try a citric acid flush, you can use your old thermostat to make the flushing tool. You did double-check the head temperature with an IR thermometer to make sure you don't have a gauge/sender problem, right? -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D
Another thing to consider - does it run hot at or above a certain speed? If so, it's clogged. Dan From: LWB250 lwb...@yahoo.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 2:29 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D If you pull the radiator, just stick a garden hose in the inlet and see how much comes out the bottom - you'll know if it's clogged. Not uncommon for a radiator to be clogged in a car that old. Usually under $100 to have it rodded out. Dan From: Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D So my '84 190D has always run hot, the needle would go up to around 95 and drop back down and up and down slowly while driving but it was never an issue, now with the arrival of warmer weather it seems to be getting worse. If it's not the thermostat, chances are that it's the radiator. Try a citric acid flush, you can use your old thermostat to make the flushing tool. You did double-check the head temperature with an IR thermometer to make sure you don't have a gauge/sender problem, right? -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D
Nope. The one on my '85 190D never did either. I guess I've never let this one get hot enough. I measured voltage at the fan on the '85, haven't measured this one yet. Its never gotten over 100C that I know of. -Curt Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 08:55:31 -0500 From: Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D Message-ID: sig.51227a60db.3fe3c30b-c472-4966-8ae8-094fc8ad5...@striplin.net Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii With hot and running look around for leaks. As for why it is running hot i would guess the radiator is clogged. Does the electric fan clutch kick in? Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D
Doesn't seem to be speed dependent, does seem to be load dependent. Specifically if I'm coming up an incline in high gear with low rpms... -Curt Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 11:31:18 -0700 (PDT) From: LWB250 lwb...@yahoo.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D Message-ID: 39017.15525...@web65711.mail.ac4.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Another thing to consider - does it run hot at or above a certain speed?? If so, it's clogged. ? Dan ? ? From: LWB250 lwb...@yahoo.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 2:29 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D If you pull the radiator, just stick a garden hose in the inlet and see how much comes out the bottom - you'll know if it's clogged. ? Not uncommon for a radiator to be clogged in a car that old.? Usually under $100 to have it rodded out. ? Dan From: Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D So my '84 190D has always run hot, the needle would go up to around 95 and drop back down and up and down slowly while driving but it was never an issue, now with the arrival of warmer weather it seems to be getting worse. If it's not the thermostat, chances are that it's the radiator. Try a citric acid flush, you can use your old thermostat to make the flushing tool. You did double-check the head temperature with an IR thermometer to make sure you don't have a gauge/sender problem, right? -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D
If it's load dependent, than I would be willing to bet you've got a clogged radiator. If ambient temps remain relatively constant and the load on the engine increases, the thermostat should moderate the flow through the radiator. Assuming that the thermostat is OK (and it probably is) what is happening is the latent heat built up in the engine is not being removed through the radiator. If the core is clogged, even just partially, the amount of surface area available to the coolant is reduced, preventing it from dumping all of the heat load out through the radiator. You can easily confirm this if you get an IR thermometer and measure the temperature of both the inlet and outlet of the radiator when the engine is warmed up. You should see a noticeable temperature drop from inlet to outlet, even with the car sitting still and idling. A good justification to buy a cheap HF IR thermometer. What you describe is a classic example of a clogged radiator from my experience. And I've had a couple of them in both 123 and 126 chassis cars. Dan From: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com To: Diesel List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D Doesn't seem to be speed dependent, does seem to be load dependent. Specifically if I'm coming up an incline in high gear with low rpms... -Curt Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 11:31:18 -0700 (PDT) From: LWB250 lwb...@yahoo.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D Message-ID: 39017.15525...@web65711.mail.ac4.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Another thing to consider - does it run hot at or above a certain speed?? If so, it's clogged. ? Dan ? ? From: LWB250 lwb...@yahoo.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 2:29 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D If you pull the radiator, just stick a garden hose in the inlet and see how much comes out the bottom - you'll know if it's clogged. ? Not uncommon for a radiator to be clogged in a car that old.? Usually under $100 to have it rodded out. ? Dan From: Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D So my '84 190D has always run hot, the needle would go up to around 95 and drop back down and up and down slowly while driving but it was never an issue, now with the arrival of warmer weather it seems to be getting worse. If it's not the thermostat, chances are that it's the radiator. Try a citric acid flush, you can use your old thermostat to make the flushing tool. You did double-check the head temperature with an IR thermometer to make sure you don't have a gauge/sender problem, right? -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D
I expect you're right, it hadn't occurred to me to try the IR thermometer, I've got one, will give it a shot. -Curt Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 17:25:17 -0700 (PDT) From: LWB250 lwb...@yahoo.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D Message-ID: 363589.99351...@web65705.mail.ac4.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 If it's load dependent, than I would be willing to bet you've got a clogged radiator. If ambient temps remain relatively constant and the load on the engine increases, the thermostat should moderate the flow through the radiator. ?Assuming that the thermostat is OK (and it probably is) what is happening is the latent heat built up in the engine is not being removed through the radiator. If the core is clogged, even just partially, the amount of surface area available to the coolant is reduced, preventing it from dumping all of the heat load out through the radiator. You can easily confirm this if you get an IR thermometer and measure the temperature of both the inlet and outlet of the radiator when the engine is warmed up. ?You should see a noticeable temperature drop from inlet to outlet, even with the car sitting still and idling. A good justification to buy a cheap HF IR thermometer. What you describe is a classic example of a clogged radiator from my experience. ?And I've had a couple of them in both 123 and 126 chassis cars. Dan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D
I've had to replace the radiator in every 124 and 201 we've gotten that had green antifreeze in it. The wrong coolant and neglect is deadly to these radiators. On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 7:25 PM, LWB250 lwb...@yahoo.com wrote: If it's load dependent, than I would be willing to bet you've got a clogged radiator. If ambient temps remain relatively constant and the load on the engine increases, the thermostat should moderate the flow through the radiator. Assuming that the thermostat is OK (and it probably is) what is happening is the latent heat built up in the engine is not being removed through the radiator. If the core is clogged, even just partially, the amount of surface area available to the coolant is reduced, preventing it from dumping all of the heat load out through the radiator. You can easily confirm this if you get an IR thermometer and measure the temperature of both the inlet and outlet of the radiator when the engine is warmed up. You should see a noticeable temperature drop from inlet to outlet, even with the car sitting still and idling. A good justification to buy a cheap HF IR thermometer. What you describe is a classic example of a clogged radiator from my experience. And I've had a couple of them in both 123 and 126 chassis cars. Dan From: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com To: Diesel List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D Doesn't seem to be speed dependent, does seem to be load dependent. Specifically if I'm coming up an incline in high gear with low rpms... -Curt Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 11:31:18 -0700 (PDT) From: LWB250 lwb...@yahoo.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D Message-ID: 39017.15525...@web65711.mail.ac4.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Another thing to consider - does it run hot at or above a certain speed?? If so, it's clogged. ? Dan ? ? From: LWB250 lwb...@yahoo.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 2:29 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D If you pull the radiator, just stick a garden hose in the inlet and see how much comes out the bottom - you'll know if it's clogged. ? Not uncommon for a radiator to be clogged in a car that old.? Usually under $100 to have it rodded out. ? Dan From: Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hot 190D So my '84 190D has always run hot, the needle would go up to around 95 and drop back down and up and down slowly while driving but it was never an issue, now with the arrival of warmer weather it seems to be getting worse. If it's not the thermostat, chances are that it's the radiator. Try a citric acid flush, you can use your old thermostat to make the flushing tool. You did double-check the head temperature with an IR thermometer to make sure you don't have a gauge/sender problem, right? -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
