Re: [MBZ] Interesting engine
> Rich wrote: > > There was a harvest festival today in the hood, and there was > this really old gasoline engine set up driving a stone mill to > grind corn for grits and meal. It was a single cylinder > horizontal shaft, with what looked like an open oil bath or > water bath on top (it was steaming), some kind of reservoir > maybe, and a link running from the output shaft (which was > driving a wheel about 3ft diameter), every rev it would > pop-pop-pop (sometimes just pop-pop) when that link opened a > valve. Yup. Some of those old stationary engines used water evaporation to cool them. The intake valve is controlled by the governor. When the engine speed drops low enough, the intake valve is allowed to open and the engine fires. If it is running with a light load, it can make half a dozen rotation before it slows enough to fire again. However, I think they sound best under a heavy load. Fire on ever other stroke with a sharp bark I still like the old external combustion engines, though. Those old steam traction engines are some amazing machines!! --Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Interesting engine
On year at at OkieQ we went down to the gun museum and their happen to be some sort of event going on and there were dozens of those old engines like that there running. Rich Thomas wrote: There was a harvest festival today in the hood, and there was this really old gasoline engine set up driving a stone mill to grind corn for grits and meal. It was a single cylinder horizontal shaft, with what looked like an open oil bath or water bath on top (it was steaming), some kind of reservoir maybe, and a link running from the output shaft (which was driving a wheel about 3ft diameter), every rev it would pop-pop-pop (sometimes just pop-pop) when that link opened a valve. Sounded like an old John Deere, it was painted green. I had the pups and they definitely did not want to get close to it, so I could not check out the name that was cast into it. I guess it was a 4 stroke as it had 2 exposed valves on top of the cyl head. It was pretty cool though. Definitely not OSHA approved though, stuff spinning and popping, no muffler! I bought some grits from the mill, looking forward to a tasty meal! I bought some fried peanuts too (you eat the whole thing! -- good roughage I guess). --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1760 - Release Date: 11/1/2008 9:36 AM -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D x2, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250, 66 220SEb http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Interesting engine
It's called a hit or miss engine and they were popular stationary engines 100 years or so ago. It uses a governor to enable & disable the intake valve. As it speeds past the governor setting (the max rpm), the intake valve stays closed and engine slows down. The water bath on top is the cooling system. The bath is sitting on top of the cylinder. Heat from the cylinder boils the water, thus regulating the temperature to 212F. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 5:46 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] Interesting engine There was a harvest festival today in the hood, and there was this really old gasoline engine set up driving a stone mill to grind corn for grits and meal. It was a single cylinder horizontal shaft, with what looked like an open oil bath or water bath on top (it was steaming), some kind of reservoir maybe, and a link running from the output shaft (which was driving a wheel about 3ft diameter), every rev it would pop-pop-pop (sometimes just pop-pop) when that link opened a valve. Sounded like an old John Deere, it was painted green. I had the pups and they definitely did not want to get close to it, so I could not check out the name that was cast into it. I guess it was a 4 stroke as it had 2 exposed valves on top of the cyl head. It was pretty cool though. Definitely not OSHA approved though, stuff spinning and popping, no muffler! I bought some grits from the mill, looking forward to a tasty meal! I bought some fried peanuts too (you eat the whole thing! -- good roughage I guess). --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1759 - Release Date: 10/31/2008 4:10 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1759 - Release Date: 10/31/2008 4:10 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Interesting engine
Hey you guys are like encyclopedias, I think you are right -- it was sorta missing on some strokes, I guess it did not need to fire on them. Cool. When I was a kid my dad would go and take me every year to a gathering of old steam engines. Lots of old farts in funny hats and bibs fussing with the things while they chuffed and made very loud dangerous sounds (the engines, not the old farts, though some of them let fly some choice words occasionally).. I loved it. --R Fmiser wrote: Rich wrote: There was a harvest festival today in the hood, and there was this really old gasoline engine set up driving a stone mill to grind corn for grits and meal. It was a single cylinder horizontal shaft, with what looked like an open oil bath or water bath on top (it was steaming), some kind of reservoir maybe, and a link running from the output shaft (which was driving a wheel about 3ft diameter), every rev it would pop-pop-pop (sometimes just pop-pop) when that link opened a valve. Yup. Some of those old stationary engines used water evaporation to cool them. The intake valve is controlled by the governor. When the engine speed drops low enough, the intake valve is allowed to open and the engine fires. If it is running with a light load, it can make half a dozen rotation before it slows enough to fire again. However, I think they sound best under a heavy load. Fire on ever other stroke with a sharp bark I still like the old external combustion engines, though. Those old steam traction engines are some amazing machines!! --Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Interesting engine
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Interesting engine > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hey you guys are like encyclopedias, I think you are right -- it was > sorta missing on some strokes, I guess it did not need to fire on them. > Cool. > > When I was a kid my dad would go and take me every year to a gathering > of old steam engines. Lots of old farts in funny hats and bibs fussing > with the things while they chuffed and made very loud dangerous sounds > (the engines, not the old farts, though some of them let fly some choice > words occasionally).. I loved it. > > --R > Rich- If you enjoyed that then, you'd love this place http://www.roughandtumble.org/rt-albums/rt-2007_reun/rt_photo_2007_reun.asp The museum is close to Lancaster, PA and about 60 miles of Philadelphia. We went there in August and saw so much big steam equipment like http://www.roughandtumble.org/rt-albums/rt-2007_reun/c/4764rt_2007_1_040.asp#Photo that we got numb to it. And about 50 or so hit-and-miss engines of various power and design, some standalone, some as a piece of equipment like this saw http://www.roughandtumble.org/rt-albums/rt-2007_reun/c/5518rt_2007_2_259.asp#Photo Wonder what OSHA would saw about this little marvel today... Tony Wirtel ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Interesting engine
We call them "hit and miss" engines, because the governor usually holds the exhaust valve open on the intake stroke to prevent it from generating an un-needed power stroke. At no load with the governor set low, it may only fire every four or five power strokes unless set VERY rich to make them fire all the time (no power). Cooling was often an open head filled with water -- they boil merrily under load. Designed to run around 500 rpm or so (as is obvious by the flywheel -- any faster and it would fly apart!) and used to drive stationary equipment -- sawmills, threshing machines, overhead live shafts that operate other equipment, and so forth. Usually have 4:1 compression ratios and use vast quantities of fuel in operation, even with the very long stroke. Hand started by "bouncing" off the compression stroke backwards through a compression stroke. The Hercules brand was made here in Evansville -- I think you could see the remains of the sign on the roof of the old factory until a few years ago. Peter On Nov 3, 2008, at 8:31 AM, Loren Faeth wrote: If you want to see hundreds of them in operation, along with hundreds of antique tractors, and dozens of steam traction engines (probably around 100) , Steam locomotives and electric trolleys in operation go to Midwest Old Threshers Reunion. http:// www.oldthreshers.com/ At 04:46 PM 11/1/2008, you wrote: There was a harvest festival today in the hood, and there was this really old gasoline engine set up driving a stone mill to grind corn for grits and meal. It was a single cylinder horizontal shaft, with what looked like an open oil bath or water bath on top (it was steaming), some kind of reservoir maybe, and a link running from the output shaft (which was driving a wheel about 3ft diameter), every rev it would pop-pop-pop (sometimes just pop-pop) when that link opened a valve. Sounded like an old John Deere, it was painted green. I had the pups and they definitely did not want to get close to it, so I could not check out the name that was cast into it. I guess it was a 4 stroke as it had 2 exposed valves on top of the cyl head. It was pretty cool though. Definitely not OSHA approved though, stuff spinning and popping, no muffler! I bought some grits from the mill, looking forward to a tasty meal! I bought some fried peanuts too (you eat the whole thing! -- good roughage I guess). --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Interesting engine
If you want to see hundreds of them in operation, along with hundreds of antique tractors, and dozens of steam traction engines (probably around 100) , Steam locomotives and electric trolleys in operation go to Midwest Old Threshers Reunion. http://www.oldthreshers.com/ At 04:46 PM 11/1/2008, you wrote: There was a harvest festival today in the hood, and there was this really old gasoline engine set up driving a stone mill to grind corn for grits and meal. It was a single cylinder horizontal shaft, with what looked like an open oil bath or water bath on top (it was steaming), some kind of reservoir maybe, and a link running from the output shaft (which was driving a wheel about 3ft diameter), every rev it would pop-pop-pop (sometimes just pop-pop) when that link opened a valve. Sounded like an old John Deere, it was painted green. I had the pups and they definitely did not want to get close to it, so I could not check out the name that was cast into it. I guess it was a 4 stroke as it had 2 exposed valves on top of the cyl head. It was pretty cool though. Definitely not OSHA approved though, stuff spinning and popping, no muffler! I bought some grits from the mill, looking forward to a tasty meal! I bought some fried peanuts too (you eat the whole thing! -- good roughage I guess). --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Interesting engine
Peter Frederick wrote: We call them "hit and miss" engines, because the governor usually holds the exhaust valve open on the intake stroke to prevent it from generating an un-needed power stroke. So no pumping losses or intake vacuum? But inefficient anyway? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Interesting engine
Actually, I re-read my own email & need to correct myself. The ones I've seen disable the intake valve on the 'miss' strokes. But even then, there are little pumping losses. The piston will pull a vacuum on the intakes stroke & the same vacuum will help pull the piston back in during the compression stroke. The real inefficiency comes from the primitive carburetor. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mitch Haley Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:16 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Interesting engine Peter Frederick wrote: > We call them "hit and miss" engines, because the governor usually holds > the exhaust valve open on the intake stroke to prevent it from > generating an un-needed power stroke. So no pumping losses or intake vacuum? But inefficient anyway? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1764 - Release Date: 11/3/2008 7:46 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1764 - Release Date: 11/3/2008 7:46 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Interesting engine
I tried to get one of those engines running for a high school friends father during WW-2 in a small SE Indiana town. Instead of a spark plug system, it had mechanical "strikers" in the top of the cylinder that made contact and ignited the gas vapour. (Later models had spark plugs.) The electrical source for the strikers was missing, so I tried all sorts of other electric sources but could never get the engine to fire. The later spark plug models, such as the engine that ran a sorghum cane grinder at another high school friends farm, started easily. During the 1930s the Belknap Hardware Co. (Louisville) catalog had many pages of those type engines; some quite large. Gerry We call them "hit and miss" engines, because the governor usually holds the exhaust valve open on the intake stroke to prevent it from generating an un-needed power stroke. At no load with the governor set low, it may only fire every four or five power strokes unless set VERY rich to make them fire all the time (no power). Cooling was often an open head filled with water -- they boil merrily under load. Designed to run around 500 rpm or so (as is obvious by the flywheel -- any faster and it would fly apart!) and used to drive stationary equipment -- sawmills, threshing machines, overhead live shafts that operate other equipment, and so forth. Usually have 4:1 compression ratios and use vast quantities of fuel in operation, even with the very long stroke. Hand started by "bouncing" off the compression stroke backwards through a compression stroke. The Hercules brand was made here in Evansville -- I think you could see the remains of the sign on the roof of the old factory until a few years ago. Peter On Nov 3, 2008, at 8:31 AM, Loren Faeth wrote: If you want to see hundreds of them in operation, along with hundreds of antique tractors, and dozens of steam traction engines (probably around 100) , Steam locomotives and electric trolleys in operation go to Midwest Old Threshers Reunion. http:// www.oldthreshers.com/ At 04:46 PM 11/1/2008, you wrote: There was a harvest festival today in the hood, and there was this really old gasoline engine set up driving a stone mill to grind corn for grits and meal. It was a single cylinder horizontal shaft, with what looked like an open oil bath or water bath on top (it was steaming), some kind of reservoir maybe, and a link running from the output shaft (which was driving a wheel about 3ft diameter), every rev it would pop-pop-pop (sometimes just pop-pop) when that link opened a valve. Sounded like an old John Deere, it was painted green. I had the pups and they definitely did not want to get close to it, so I could not check out the name that was cast into it. I guess it was a 4 stroke as it had 2 exposed valves on top of the cyl head. It was pretty cool though. Definitely not OSHA approved though, stuff spinning and popping, no muffler! I bought some grits from the mill, looking forward to a tasty meal! I bought some fried peanuts too (you eat the whole thing! -- good roughage I guess). --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1764 - Release Date: 11/3/2008 7:46 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
