Re: [MBZ] a couple more oil profit stories

[OK Don]

Isn't that called free market capitolism, supply and demand

On 10/27/05, Ron Dwelle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Here are a couple more price gouging stories:
>

--
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
'87 300SDL,  '81 240D,  '78 450SLC
The FSM created the Diesel Benz
http://www.venganza.org/

Re: [MBZ] a couple more oil profit stories

[TimothyPilgrim]

Was there really a supply problem? Demand was the same as before no doubt.

What it is is unchecked consumer price gouging. There was no reason to
increase prices as were done if it led to record profits. I say let
the gov't regulate the hell out of them. Not because of high prices
alone (until we see prices equal to Europe we can't complain much),
but because the companies took advantage of a situation (hurricanes)
to jack up prices on a necessity of life (yes it is).

Tim
1983 300TD Moby

On 10/27/05, OK Don <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Isn't that called free market capitolism, supply and demand
>
> On 10/27/05, Ron Dwelle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Here are a couple more price gouging stories:
> >
>
> --
> OK Don, KD5NRO
> Norman, OK
> '87 300SDL,  '81 240D,  '78 450SLC
> The FSM created the Diesel Benz
> http://www.venganza.org/
>
> ___
> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
>

Re: [MBZ] a couple more oil profit stories

[OK Don]

They have the supply, we have the demand. They can charge as much as
we're willing to pay. It's the American way! Market forces are
supposed to keep the prices in control. Doesn't seem to be happening
now though. Either there really is a lowered supply of Diesel, or the
fuel oil demand has really increased, or there's a bit of price fixing
going on. Gasoline? I can't see how demand has changed, I don't konw
how much the hurricanes lowered the supply, but those prices are
falling a bit now. I fail to see 50% worth of demand increase for
Diesel, so I can only assume that they're charging what the market
will bear.

You (generic, not Tim) can't demand free enterprise and no government
regulation and gripe about high profits. Can't have it both ways,
unless there is criminal price fixing.

On 10/27/05, TimothyPilgrim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Was there really a supply problem? Demand was the same as before no doubt.
>
> What it is is unchecked consumer price gouging. There was no reason to
> increase prices as were done if it led to record profits. I say let
> the gov't regulate the hell out of them. Not because of high prices
> alone (until we see prices equal to Europe we can't complain much),
> but because the companies took advantage of a situation (hurricanes)
> to jack up prices on a necessity of life (yes it is).
>
> Tim
> 1983 300TD Moby
>


--
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
'87 300SDL,  '81 240D,  '78 450SLC
The FSM created the Diesel Benz
http://www.venganza.org/

Re: [MBZ] a couple more oil profit stories

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

gas here is down to 2.09, the lowest diesel I was was 2.99

OK Don wrote:


They have the supply, we have the demand. They can charge as much as
we're willing to pay. It's the American way! Market forces are
supposed to keep the prices in control. Doesn't seem to be happening
now though. Either there really is a lowered supply of Diesel, or the
fuel oil demand has really increased, or there's a bit of price fixing
going on. Gasoline? I can't see how demand has changed, I don't konw
how much the hurricanes lowered the supply, but those prices are
falling a bit now. I fail to see 50% worth of demand increase for
Diesel, so I can only assume that they're charging what the market
will bear.

You (generic, not Tim) can't demand free enterprise and no government
regulation and gripe about high profits. Can't have it both ways,
unless there is criminal price fixing.

On 10/27/05, TimothyPilgrim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Was there really a supply problem? Demand was the same as before no doubt.

What it is is unchecked consumer price gouging. There was no reason to
increase prices as were done if it led to record profits. I say let
the gov't regulate the hell out of them. Not because of high prices
alone (until we see prices equal to Europe we can't complain much),
but because the companies took advantage of a situation (hurricanes)
to jack up prices on a necessity of life (yes it is).

Tim
1983 300TD Moby





--
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
'87 300SDL,  '81 240D,  '78 450SLC
The FSM created the Diesel Benz
http://www.venganza.org/

___
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--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
 84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts

Re: [MBZ] a couple more oil profit stories

[OK Don]

I saw $2.06 for gas and $2.96 for Diesel last night on the way home,
I'll fill up tonight - wonder what the price will be?

On 10/28/05, Kaleb C. Striplin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> gas here is down to 2.09, the lowest diesel I was was 2.99
>

--
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
'87 300SDL,  '81 240D,  '78 450SLC
The FSM created the Diesel Benz
http://www.venganza.org/

Re: [MBZ] a couple more oil profit stories

[Don & Teresa Merriman]

Way down here in Mexico it is still $2.27 US$ gallon, has been for months.
Don

On 10/28/05, Kaleb C. Striplin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> gas here is down to 2.09, the lowest diesel I was was 2.99
>
> OK Don wrote:
>
> > They have the supply, we have the demand. They can charge as much as
> > we're willing to pay. It's the American way! Market forces are
> > supposed to keep the prices in control. Doesn't seem to be happening
> > now though. Either there really is a lowered supply of Diesel, or the
> > fuel oil demand has really increased, or there's a bit of price fixing
> > going on. Gasoline? I can't see how demand has changed, I don't konw
> > how much the hurricanes lowered the supply, but those prices are
> > falling a bit now. I fail to see 50% worth of demand increase for
> > Diesel, so I can only assume that they're charging what the market
> > will bear.
> >
> > You (generic, not Tim) can't demand free enterprise and no government
> > regulation and gripe about high profits. Can't have it both ways,
> > unless there is criminal price fixing.
> >
> > On 10/27/05, TimothyPilgrim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >>Was there really a supply problem? Demand was the same as before no
> doubt.
> >>
> >>What it is is unchecked consumer price gouging. There was no reason to
> >>increase prices as were done if it led to record profits. I say let
> >>the gov't regulate the hell out of them. Not because of high prices
> >>alone (until we see prices equal to Europe we can't complain much),
> >>but because the companies took advantage of a situation (hurricanes)
> >>to jack up prices on a necessity of life (yes it is).
> >>
> >>Tim
> >>1983 300TD Moby
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > OK Don, KD5NRO
> > Norman, OK
> > '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC
> > The FSM created the Diesel Benz
> > http://www.venganza.org/
> >
> > ___
> > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
> > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
> 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
> 84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
> 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
> Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts
>
> ___
> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
>



--
Don & Teresa Merriman
Market Place Mexico
Vacation Rentals
Property Administration
www.marketplacemexico.com 

Re: [MBZ] a couple more oil profit stories

[Mitch Haley]

OK Don wrote:
>  I fail to see 50% worth of demand increase for
> Diesel, so I can only assume that they're charging what the market
> will bear.

Demand for energy is inelactic, particularly in the short term.
Supply is extremely inelastic, the spigots are already full open. 
If demand exceeds supply at the current price by 5%, the only way
to get balance is to increase price until demand drops 5%, and
a 5% price increase won't do it, but a 40-50% increase in price
might do it. If price is held below the new equilibrium point, 
there will be some sort of rationing, either by government decree
or by "last buyer in line doesn't get any". By allowing price to
increase until we only want to consume what's available, everybody
gets to buy all they want, we just want a little less if we have
to pay $3 for it.

Re: [MBZ] a couple more oil profit stories

[Rich Thomas]

The oil companies do not set the prices.  Prices are set by commodity 
traders in New York City, London, Hong Kong, etc. based on factors that 
are generally identified as fear and greed (if any of us knew them 
specifically we would not be complaining as we would be amazingly 
wealthy) but discernable to a few of these guys, who are quite wealthy.  
The oil companies sell product for that price, whatever it is.  Various 
others in the supply chain add their bit to the crude price, but 
wholesale gasoline/diesel, etc. prices are set by traders as well.  The 
oil companies "did not take advantage of a situation" as they are not 
really in a position to actively "take advantage" though profit-wise 
they clearly benefitted.  Many of them suffered significant losses of 
rigs and other infrastructure, which is not cheap to fix or replace.


The profits of the oil companies as a percentage of revenues are not 
wildly out of whack with the profit margins of other industries or 
businesses.


No one likes high fuel prices, but the oil companies are not the driver 
for them.  Blame the traders as gougers and buy oil company stocks (some 
of which actually dropped in price I think I heard?).  Govt regulation 
of prices and industries, etc. is mostly unworkable, hell the govt can't 
even satisfactorily fix potholes on my street so I wouild not hold out 
high expectations for controlling the global petro industry.  Whatever 
monkeying about with it that has gone on for ages still has these 
consequences so I am not sure that more of whatever it is will have any 
better result.  What will work is market responses (/i.e./, /your 
/behavior and that of everyone else) to higher prices, either in more 
fuel-efficient vehicles, alternative fuels, changed behavior, etc., some 
of which "the government" (which after all is you and me and everyone 
else in our local parts of the planet) can influence to some extent, but 
cannot "fix" whatever "fix" means.


What do /you /think would be a "good" price for fuel?  Does everyone 
else agree with that price?  Work back from that and figure out what is 
needed to work it, then report back to us.


--R

TimothyPilgrim wrote:


Was there really a supply problem? Demand was the same as before no doubt.

What it is is unchecked consumer price gouging. There was no reason to
increase prices as were done if it led to record profits. I say let
the gov't regulate the hell out of them. Not because of high prices
alone (until we see prices equal to Europe we can't complain much),
but because the companies took advantage of a situation (hurricanes)
to jack up prices on a necessity of life (yes it is).

Tim
1983 300TD Moby

On 10/27/05, OK Don <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 


Isn't that called free market capitolism, supply and demand

On 10/27/05, Ron Dwelle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
   


Here are a couple more price gouging stories:

 


--
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
'87 300SDL,  '81 240D,  '78 450SLC
The FSM created the Diesel Benz
http://www.venganza.org/

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Re: [MBZ] a couple more oil profit stories

[Curt Raymond]

I've been thinking alot about this lately. I most of the profit has to do with 
the soaring price of crude and the attendant rising price of finished products.
So lets say you're Exxon-Mobil. You've gone into Saudi Arabia (for instance) 
and somehow against all odds delt with the royals and gotten permission to pump 
oil. You've paid hefty bribes, then bribed local workers to not have all your 
workers killed. You've shipped the stuff, etc...

It costs you x/barrel to do all that. The market has decided (note Exxon-Mobil 
didn't decide, futures trader decided) that this year the crude oil which 
you've gotten is now worth roughly double what it was 2 years ago. What are you 
going to do say "No no boys, take this money back, its too much?"

 

The refiners meanwhile are busy converting crude into fuels you and I can use, 
that costs x/gallon/fraction. The cost of raw materials to the refiners (the 
crude oil) has risen dramatically, so the price of the end product has 
obviously risen as well. Profit is usually figured on a percentage basis, so 
say you make 20% on your finished product if the price of the finished product 
rises the amount you make rises too.


Remember crude oil has something like doubled in 2 years, the price of the 
finished product has NOT or at least it isn't right now with gas at $2.50, you 
poor buggers paying $3 for diesel can say it is...

The reason diesel is so expensive is because MOST people drive gas cars. So 
when the price of gas rises they scream, so refiners make more gas at the 
expense of making proportionally less diesel. With less supply diesel prices 
have to be higher...

 

Now a smart company right now would take those record profits and do 2 or 3 
things;

1. Pay down debt  - I don't know how much debt oil companies carry but with 
that kind of profit it'd be stupid to have any debt.

2. Buy back stock - Which increases stock price and makes for happy investors 
which is sadly the point of most companies these days.

3. Reinvest in the company. - Find more oil fields, make your refineries more 
efficient, figure a way to make biodiesel work for big oil. Okay that last one 
is a pipe dream but I'd be very surprised if big oil hasn't got anybody working 
on some bio options...

 

Investments today in times of record high profit should result in lower prices 
tomorrow.

 

Exxon-Mobil is doing 2 and 3 (that I know of, might be #1 too). Unfortunately 
this is the real world so theres a 4th thing which which they'll surely be 
doing.

 

4. Pay executives obscenely large amounts of money for doing nothing special.

 

-Curt

 

Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 23:53:52 -0400
From: TimothyPilgrim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] a couple more oil profit stories
To: Mercedes mailing list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Was there really a supply problem? Demand was the same as before no 
doubt.

What it is is unchecked consumer price gouging. There was no reason to
increase prices as were done if it led to record profits. I say let
the gov't regulate the hell out of them. Not because of high prices
alone (until we see prices equal to Europe we can't complain much),
but because the companies took advantage of a situation (hurricanes)
to jack up prices on a necessity of life (yes it is).

Tim
1983 300TD Moby



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Re: [MBZ] a couple more oil profit stories

[Rick Knoble]

> Investments today in times of record high profit should result in lower
prices tomorrow.

BZZZT, wrong. Investments today secure the certainty of record high profits
in the future.

> Exxon-Mobil is doing 2 and 3 (that I know of, might be #1 too).
Unfortunately this is the real world so theres a 4th thing which which
they'll surely be doing.
> 4. Pay executives obscenely large amounts of money for doing nothing
special.

Top level executives generally get obscene bonuses when the workers get
screwed.
Check United, Delta American, ect. The automakers in the US are losing money
again. Look for lower management and hourly workers to get shafted soon,
while top execs get mult-millions in bonuses for doing such a good job
cutting costs.
My 2¢
Rick Knoble
1985 300 CD

Re: [MBZ] a couple more oil profit stories

[Kevin]

On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 08:25:53AM -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
> gas here is down to 2.09, the lowest diesel I was was 2.99

I'm seriously considering grabbing a cheap gasser tow rig (or resurrecting
the 77 cherokee with the 401 with an attitude problem) to use if I don't need
what the diesel has to offer. And the margin between 87 octane (or 89 in the
case of the jeep) and diesel here is nowhere near what it is out there.

You might want to hang onto that burbinator.

K

Re: [MBZ] a couple more oil profit stories

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

I already sold the burbinator, been kicking myself in the ass every 
since.  Oh well, it did finance that nice steel deck cartrailer I bought.


Kevin wrote:


On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 08:25:53AM -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:


gas here is down to 2.09, the lowest diesel I was was 2.99



I'm seriously considering grabbing a cheap gasser tow rig (or resurrecting
the 77 cherokee with the 401 with an attitude problem) to use if I don't need
what the diesel has to offer. And the margin between 87 octane (or 89 in the
case of the jeep) and diesel here is nowhere near what it is out there.

You might want to hang onto that burbinator.

K

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--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
 84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts

Re: [MBZ] a couple more oil profit stories

[OK Don]

Diesel dropped to $2.65 and unleaded to $2.00 here today - filled up
the 300SDL, yes I did.



--
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
'87 300SDL,  '81 240D,  '78 450SLC
The FSM created the Diesel Benz
http://www.venganza.org/

Re: [MBZ] a couple more oil profit stories

[Bob Rentfro]

O.K. Don typed:

"Diesel dropped to $2.65 and unleaded to $2.00 here today - filled up
the 300SDL, yes I did"

I'm still paying $3.099. Crazy.

Bob Rentfro
'77 300D 141K
Litchfield Park, AZ

Re: [MBZ] a couple more oil profit stories

[David Brodbeck]

Rick Knoble wrote:
> Top level executives generally get obscene bonuses when the workers get
> screwed.
> Check United, Delta American, ect.

That's because they're paid to maximize shareholder value at the expense
of everything else.  When you cut wages, profits go up and so does
shareholder value.

The really brillant move was getting the taxpayers to take over their
pension plans, thus improving their profit margin at the expense of the
entire rest of the country.  I expect GM to follow suit.