Re: Replacing an AppleScript in Windows

[andu]

>
>I have been looking at a HyperCard system for possible conversion to
>MetaCard so that it will run on both Mac and Windows. The current
>implementation uses AppleScript to control Graphic Converter, in order
>to open a huge jpg file, resave it as a compressed jpg, and display it,
>rotate it, and zoom the view in and out.
>
>Is it possible to duplicate this functionality within MetaCard? I know
>MC will display the graphic, but what about resaving as a compressed
>file, rotation and zoom? Or alternately, is there any equivalent of
>inter-application communication on Windows so that a stack could control
>a graphics application to perform these tasks?
>
Check out "launch" in the docs.
>-- 
>Jacqueline Landman Gay| [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>HyperActive Software  |   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Custom hypermedia solutions   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>612.724.1596  |   612.724.1562 - fax
>
>
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>
>.


Regards, Andu 
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Replacing an AppleScript in Windows

[Jacqueline Landman Gay]

I have been looking at a HyperCard system for possible conversion to
MetaCard so that it will run on both Mac and Windows. The current
implementation uses AppleScript to control Graphic Converter, in order
to open a huge jpg file, resave it as a compressed jpg, and display it,
rotate it, and zoom the view in and out.

Is it possible to duplicate this functionality within MetaCard? I know
MC will display the graphic, but what about resaving as a compressed
file, rotation and zoom? Or alternately, is there any equivalent of
inter-application communication on Windows so that a stack could control
a graphics application to perform these tasks?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay| [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software  |   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Custom hypermedia solutions   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
612.724.1596  |   612.724.1562 - fax


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Re: Re: Why not as an RSA public/private keys encryption system...

[David Bovill]

There is an some GNU Open source PGP compatible code released 6 months ago, maybe this 
would be an easier route to scripting it within MetaCard?

>David Bovill wrote:
>> 
>> >> I can think of 2 kind of solutions :
>> >>
>> >> 1) solution based on signature
>> >> The programmer put his signature in his runtime and in his stacks. When
>> >> opening a stack, the runtime checks if the stack has the right signature.
>> >> The process could be a "compress+encrypt" function built in the engine and a
>> >> "decompress+decrypt" function build in the runtime.
>> >
>> >1.1) Why not as an RSA public/private keys encryptation system, stored, as a
>> >metatalk script, in an encrypted client-side home stack or its substitute,
>> >suitable, without any changes, with the actual 2.3.1 issue of MC ?
>> >
>> 
>> Pierre, please pojnt the way!
>> 
>> I'd like to know how to script, it. What maths is involved? Is there an RFC? What 
>would be the security loopholes etc...
>> 
>
>David,
>
>Sorry, i'm, for yet, just a newbie in SSH, RSA, SSL, etc.. stuffs, as i just
>started to work on this to manage secure connections on  and
>some extranet services.
>Please wait a month and i will gladly send you off-list the tested solutions
>results (as .mc scripts if helpfull).
>
>Kind Regards, Pierre Sahores
>
>WEB, DB, B2B & ASP design.
>There are countries where people
>have six fingers because they 
>don't know the metric system.
>Sir Jean Yanne
>
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Animated GIFs (was "Re: can't save stack?")

[Michaael Walas]

> What applications other than GifBuilder do this? I'd like to avoid
trouble.

When I stated the below, I didn't mean to imply that GifBuilder created
the gifs in question.  I obtained the gifs from another source and only
opened them in GifBuilder to see if it would display them properly.
Creating optimized gifs in GifBuilder is something I haven't done and I
don't know if they will or will not play in MetaCard properly.

BTW, using: "set the constantMask property of the image to true" solved
my problems.  However Scott warned that once setting this property you
"will lose the ability to use a mask or to move the GIF while they're
playing."

> The gifs are "optimized"
> but Windows MetaCard can display them.and the Mac MetaCard can't
> (properly).  The gifs display properly on the Mac in the shareware
> program gifbuilder.  Do I have to take apart the gifs and reassemble
> them as "unoptimized" to get them to play on the Mac in MetaCard?
> I'm talkin' 75-100 animations so that doesn't sound like something I
> want to do.


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Re: Why not as an RSA public/private keys encryptation system...

[Pierre Sahores]

David Bovill wrote:
> 
> >> I can think of 2 kind of solutions :
> >>
> >> 1) solution based on signature
> >> The programmer put his signature in his runtime and in his stacks. When
> >> opening a stack, the runtime checks if the stack has the right signature.
> >> The process could be a "compress+encrypt" function built in the engine and a
> >> "decompress+decrypt" function build in the runtime.
> >
> >1.1) Why not as an RSA public/private keys encryptation system, stored, as a
> >metatalk script, in an encrypted client-side home stack or its substitute,
> >suitable, without any changes, with the actual 2.3.1 issue of MC ?
> >
> 
> Pierre, please pojnt the way!
> 
> I'd like to know how to script, it. What maths is involved? Is there an RFC? What 
>would be the security loopholes etc...
> 

David,

Sorry, i'm, for yet, just a newbie in SSH, RSA, SSL, etc.. stuffs, as i just
started to work on this to manage secure connections on  and
some extranet services.
Please wait a month and i will gladly send you off-list the tested solutions
results (as .mc scripts if helpfull).

Kind Regards, Pierre Sahores

WEB, DB, B2B & ASP design.
There are countries where people
have six fingers because they 
don't know the metric system.
Sir Jean Yanne

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Re: MC, the Web, and you

[Digifilm]

If really wish I could program the palm and other wap devices with metacard.

Debdoot

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Re: Re: metacard, internet and security

[Scott Raney]

On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, opus.species wrote:

> I wrote
> 
> > > 2) solution based on limiting the runtime
> > > The Navigator, MSIE or javascript have some internal limitations to
> forbid
> > > writing on the user's disk.
> > > Would it be possible to have in metatalk some internal flag forbiding a
> > > runtime to write on the user's disk but in the folder where the runtime
> is ?
> 
> Scott Raney answered
> 
> > Something like this is already in there: Setting the "secureMode"
> > property to true prevents accessing files or running subprocesses on
> > the current system.  You can set it to true in a startup handler (once
> > set to true, it can never be set back to false for that session), or
> > on Windows and UNIX, by passing "-f" on the command line.
> 
> The good news with Metacard is that it is very powerfull :-)
> The bad news with Metacard is that the documentation is quite cryptic for
> unix-unliterate scripters who do not exactly know what a "file system" or a
> "subprocess" look like :-(
> 
> The doc says : "When the secureMode is set to true, all access to the file
> system and other system resources is disabled. Once set to true, it cannot
> be reset back to false."
> 
> What does mean "all access to the file system ... is disabled" ? Does it
> mean that you can neither read nor write from/to  your disk / local network
> / internet ?

Yes.

> Does it mean only that a "securemode" runtime cannot write to disk ?

Yes.

> Does it mean also that a "securemode" stack cannot be saved ?

Yes.

> Does it mean also that a "securemode" runtime cannot open an external stack
> ?

No: this is the one exception to the rule.

> Does it mean also that a "securemode" runtime cannot read data from
disk ?

Yes.

> Does it mean also that a "securemode" runtime cannot put into an url
?

I can put into an "http://" url, but not to a "file:" url.

> Does it mean also that a "securemode" runtime cannot get an url ?

No, it only applies to the local system.

> What does mean "all access to ... other system resources is disabled" ?

I guess this just means you can't use the Registry on Windows...

> Does it mean that a "securemode" runtime cannot print ?

No.

> Does it mean also that a "securemode" runtime cannot send an email ?

No, you can still do this using sockets.

> What mean "Setting the secureMode property to true prevents ...running
> subprocesses" ?
> Does it mean that a "securemode" runtime cannot  use the "launch" or "open
> process" command ?

Exactly.

> Does it mean that a "securemode" runtime cannot open a substack ?

No.  Those are all loaded with the main stack anyway...
  Scott

> Regards, Claude


Scott Raney  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.metacard.com
MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that...


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RE: MC, the Web, and you

[Blair Moxon]

Richard,
I hope you are right...the web and HTML has set back user interface design
back at least 5 years. My dream is to see the rich interactive interface
that MC provides either in or outside a browser window. 
Rgds,

Blair Moxon

> -Original Message-
> From: Richard Gaskin [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 3:35 AM
> To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject:  Re: MC, the Web, and you
> 
> Given the relative newness of this Web frenzy, I suspect that the browser
> will ultimately prove to be a transitional phase, a stepping stone on the
> way to other things which allow more flexible user interfaces for both
> content presentation (which is currently good on the Web) and data
> manipulation (at which the Web sucks -- can you imagine using a
> browser-based spreadsheet?).
> 
> 

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upgrade email client posted

[andu]

http://www.cloud9.net/~undo

Solved some problems with keeping track of new/deleted mail.
To delete mail in the browser select a line(shift for more lines) and then 
control+click.


Regards, Andu 
___
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: MC, the Web, and you

[Roger D. Ray]

--
>From: Richard Gaskin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: MC, the Web, and you
>Date: Mon, Aug 14, 2000, 3:35 AM
>

> Thanks for the feedback, Andu:
>
>>> A quick survey of MetaCard developers, if you don't mind:
> ...
>> But what do you need this for if I may ask?
>

> - What untapped opportunities may still exist in the
>   world of desktop applications?

My project uses MC as a custom browser to deliver artificially intelligent
"adaptive" tutorial and content  mastery certification services on the
client side (we serve the college/university market).  In this case MC is
100% of the internet-savvy client experience.  But the project also relies
upon Lasso for CGI and FMPro for database services 100% on the server side.
These tools are, of course, replaceable by various competitive systems--we
just happen to know these well enough to begin with.
>
> The breadth of what MetaCard delivers also makes it relatively difficult to
> define.  We can build almost anything for a client, but more and more they
> seem to prefer that it take place inside of a browser window.

We use the internet as a communication link and server-side systems for
record keeping, content storage/distribution, auto-updating our software to
the client and parameter passing (such as timing out certain chapters after
a test deadline has expired).   All of this means the services of our
application are largely "custom" determined by the changing state of a
client's records on our server.

> Given the relative newness of this Web fenzy, I suspect that the browser
> will ultimately prove to be a transitional phase, a stepping stone on the
> way to other things which allow more flexible user interfaces for both
> content presentation (which is currently good on the Web) and data
> manipulation (at which the Web sucks -- can you imagine using a
> browser-based spreadsheet?).
>
We deliver in a custom MC browser in order to have complex scripts deliver
the AI services that normal browsers, even with Java, can't.   MetaCard is a
perfect tool for expanding the potential of internet connectivity, and I
frequently describe our difference as one of delivering education vs mere
information (e.g., the difference between a classroom and a library) via the
internet.  If you made production tools, such as laboratory simulations or
spreadsheet applications, then you could add production to the "education"
part of the vs statement as well.  I don't know of any browsers that are
"productive."  Standard browsers are largely limited to informing, not
guided skill building  (read: adaptive training) or problem solving.


Finally

In case anyone on the list is interested, we plan an open-access to the
downloadable of our client software in a relatively  short time (we are
still in our software  beta period and are thus still solving problems--a
couple of which I've posted to this list-- much less not having all our
desired content prepared).  We plan to build  a "visitor" section of a
hypothetical "course" for potential customers (and/or interested parties
like those on the list) where samples of what we do can be explored and
evaluated.  I hope that some of this may be worthy of demonstration to your
clients as reasons to let you also go" beyond the norm."

Roger
--
Dr. Roger D. Ray
Department of Psychology
Rollins College
Winter Park, FL 32789

adaptive instruction at www.psych-ai.com

cyberrat at www.psych-ai.com/cyberrat

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Re: MC, the Web, and you

[andu]

>
>Thanks for the feedback, Andu:
>
>>> A quick survey of MetaCard developers, if you don't mind:
>
>> But what do you need this for if I may ask?
>
>I'm seeing a big shift away from desktop applications and onto the Web, and
>wanted to get a feel for what others are doing with MC.
>
>It seems that the three main ways MC can contribute to Web work are:
>
>- CGI solutions
>- Net-aware applications ("custom browsers")
>- Web production tools
>
>Historically, most of our work with MC has been designing desktop
>applications, but in recent months the bulk of the work coming in has us
>using JavaScript or Flash (or in the case  of Flash 5, both together).
>Since most ISPs only allow Perl-based CGIs, we're finding ourselves spending
>less time with MetaCard than I would prefer.  I'm working with my favorite
>client on adding some net-savvy to his app, but I'd like to be working in MC
>even more.  JavaScript and Perl simply aren't as much fun.  :)

That's because there is a price for fun;-)

>
>So the biggest reason for finding out what others are doing with MC is
>twofold:
>
>- What are the opportunities for a RAD tool like MC in
>  a Browser-centric world?

I think many. Too few people are involved with this right now so there isn't a lot of 
experience in this domain. 

>
>- What untapped opportunities may still exist in the
>  world of desktop applications?
>
>The breadth of what MetaCard delivers also makes it relatively difficult to
>define.  We can build almost anything for a client, but more and more they
>seem to prefer that it take place inside of a browser window.

No wonder. Every one uses a browser probably more than any other application. There's 
the convenience of not having to switch to another application which can go as far as 
accepting lots of  limitations. Think of web mail for example.

>
>Given the relative newness of this Web fenzy, I suspect that the browser
>will ultimately prove to be a transitional phase, a stepping stone on the
>way to other things which allow more flexible user interfaces for both
>content presentation (which is currently good on the Web) and data
>manipulation (at which the Web sucks -- can you imagine using a
>browser-based spreadsheet?).

Yes but the necessity of not having to switch from one ui to another will always be 
there.
Don't forget the computer is still highly unintuitive and even the simplest 
interaction with it requires a lot of knowledge.

>
>There are probably several dozen categories of things MetaCard can do that
>would really drive its value home to a variety of organizations.  SETI and
>Napster are two popular examples of distributed apps which conceivably could
>have been written in MetaCard, and I suspect there are a few thousand more
>waiting to be discovered.
>
>A question in response to your post:  Since you mentioned being able to
>spend 95% of your time with MC and that most of your work is for the Web,
>does that imply that you're building server-side MC CGIs?  Or "custom
>browsers" a la AOL?

More of the first but consider also the clients I made and still working on.
>
>-- 
> Richard Gaskin 
> Fourth World Media Corporation
> Multimedia Design and Development for Mac, Windows, UNIX, and the Web
> _
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com
> Tel: 323-225-3717   ICQ#60248349Fax: 323-225-0716


Regards, Andu 
___
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Re: Why not as an RSA public/private keys encryptation system...

[David Bovill]

>> I can think of 2 kind of solutions :
>> 
>> 1) solution based on signature
>> The programmer put his signature in his runtime and in his stacks. When
>> opening a stack, the runtime checks if the stack has the right signature.
>> The process could be a "compress+encrypt" function built in the engine and a
>> "decompress+decrypt" function build in the runtime.
>
>1.1) Why not as an RSA public/private keys encryptation system, stored, as a
>metatalk script, in an encrypted client-side home stack or its substitute,
>suitable, without any changes, with the actual 2.3.1 issue of MC ?
>

Pierre, please pojnt the way! 

I'd like to know how to script, it. What maths is involved? Is there an RFC? What 
would be the security loopholes etc...

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Re: MC, the Web, and you

[Eva Isotalo]

Richard Gaskin wrote:

> A quick survey of MetaCard developers, if you don't mind:
>
> Of work you've performed over the last year, what percentage has been
> related to the Web?

10 %

> Does your work focus more on the client side of the Web, the server side, or
> both?

Client.

>
> Of the time spent with your tools on a project, what percentage do you spend
> with MetaCard?

On web work 0%. On desktop work 98%. The rest 2% is image apps like Painter.

>
> And what percentage with client-side tools/languages like JavaScript, Perl,
> and of course HTML and others?

100%  HTML.


But ... the next game I've started will definetely be at least 50% web based. I
have no idea, today, how this will be done but see it as absolutely neccessary.
If MetaCard can be used even more on the web (and I can learn to use it) it
would be perfect for me.
Really like that MC program. :o)

Regards,
Eva

>
>
> Thanks in advance -
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin


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Re: Animated GIFs (was "Re: can't save stack?")

[Raymond E. Griffith]

on 8/13/2000 11:29 PM, Scott Raney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> The gifs are "optimized"
>> but Windows MetaCard can display them.and the Mac MetaCard can't
>> (properly).  The gifs display properly on the Mac in the shareware
>> program gifbuilder.  Do I have to take apart the gifs and reassemble
>> them as "unoptimized" to get them to play on the Mac in MetaCard?
>> I'm talkin' 75-100 animations so that doesn't sound like something I
>> want to do.
> 
> Just a followup on this: He followed Kevin's advice and sent us the
> GIF files.  The "optimization" technique used on these images is
> really a bastardization of the GIF format: it uses the transparency
> mask to store color information rather than what it was intended for.
> While this sometimes results in smaller files, the animations must
> always be rectangular and you can't move them while they're playing.
> We put a hack in the engine to deal with this type of image awhile
> back (set the "constantMask" property of the image to true), but I
> recommend avoiding this type of "optimization" unless file size is the
> #1 concern in your application.
> Regards,
> Scott

What applications other than GifBuilder do this? I'd like to avoid trouble.

Raymond


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Re: metacard, internet and security

[Raymond E. Griffith]

on 8/13/2000 11:29 PM, Scott Raney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> replied to
"opus.species" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

>> 
>> But we have now to consider the security...
>> 
>> A *.mc app can do anything : destroy all the data of a computer, use a
>> computer to destroy all the data on a network, ...
> 
> Just like any email message sent to a person using an unpatched
> version of Microsoft Outlook!  Indeed, the latest exploits don't even
> require you to *read* the message, let alone open an attachment...
> 
>> 2) solution based on limiting the runtime
>> The Navigator, MSIE or javascript have some internal limitations to forbid
>> writing on the user's disk.
>> Would it be possible to have in metatalk some internal flag forbiding a
>> runtime to write on the user's disk but in the folder where the runtime is ?
> 
> Something like this is already in there: Setting the "secureMode"
> property to true prevents accessing files or running subprocesses on
> the current system.  You can set it to true in a startup handler (once
> set to true, it can never be set back to false for that session), or
> on Windows and UNIX, by passing "-f" on the command line.
> Regards,
> Scott

But you can't set this for a standalone app you are running, can you?

Some programs need a file access. MetaCard is a *very* powerful environment
and can do things many other programs cannot.

So we are back to the old warning, caveat emptor -- let the buyer beware! If
you don't know what you are downloading and running, you are taking your
computer's health into your own hands.

So, be careful what you do! And keep backups!

Raymond



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Re: Re: metacard, internet and security

[opus.species]

I wrote

> > 2) solution based on limiting the runtime
> > The Navigator, MSIE or javascript have some internal limitations to
forbid
> > writing on the user's disk.
> > Would it be possible to have in metatalk some internal flag forbiding a
> > runtime to write on the user's disk but in the folder where the runtime
is ?

Scott Raney answered

> Something like this is already in there: Setting the "secureMode"
> property to true prevents accessing files or running subprocesses on
> the current system.  You can set it to true in a startup handler (once
> set to true, it can never be set back to false for that session), or
> on Windows and UNIX, by passing "-f" on the command line.

The good news with Metacard is that it is very powerfull :-)
The bad news with Metacard is that the documentation is quite cryptic for
unix-unliterate scripters who do not exactly know what a "file system" or a
"subprocess" look like :-(

The doc says : "When the secureMode is set to true, all access to the file
system and other system resources is disabled. Once set to true, it cannot
be reset back to false."

What does mean "all access to the file system ... is disabled" ? Does it
mean that you can neither read nor write from/to  your disk / local network
/ internet ?
Does it mean only that a "securemode" runtime cannot write to disk ?
Does it mean also that a "securemode" stack cannot be saved ?
Does it mean also that a "securemode" runtime cannot open an external stack
?
Does it mean also that a "securemode" runtime cannot read data from disk ?
Does it mean also that a "securemode" runtime cannot put into an url ?
Does it mean also that a "securemode" runtime cannot get an url ?

What does mean "all access to ... other system resources is disabled" ?
Does it mean that a "securemode" runtime cannot print ?
Does it mean also that a "securemode" runtime cannot send an email ?

What mean "Setting the secureMode property to true prevents ...running
subprocesses" ?
Does it mean that a "securemode" runtime cannot  use the "launch" or "open
process" command ?
Does it mean that a "securemode" runtime cannot open a substack ?

Regards, Claude


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Re: MC, the Web, and you

[Geoff Canyon]

Richard Gaskin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said, on 8/13/00 4:09 PM:

>A quick survey of MetaCard developers, if you don't mind:
>
>Of work you've performed over the last year, what percentage has been
>related to the Web?

Almost all of it, in one way or another.

>
>Does your work focus more on the client side of the Web, the server side, or
>both?

Both
>
>Of the time spent with your tools on a project, what percentage do you spend
>with MetaCard?

10-20 percent

>
>And what percentage with client-side tools/languages like JavaScript, Perl,
>and of course HTML and others?

40-50 percent

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Re: MC, the Web, and you

[Richard Gaskin]

Thanks for the feedback, Andu:

>> A quick survey of MetaCard developers, if you don't mind:
...
> But what do you need this for if I may ask?

I'm seeing a big shift away from desktop applications and onto the Web, and
wanted to get a feel for what others are doing with MC.

It seems that the three main ways MC can contribute to Web work are:

- CGI solutions
- Net-aware applications ("custom browsers")
- Web production tools

Historically, most of our work with MC has been designing desktop
applications, but in recent months the bulk of the work coming in has us
using JavaScript or Flash (or in the case  of Flash 5, both together).
Since most ISPs only allow Perl-based CGIs, we're finding ourselves spending
less time with MetaCard than I would prefer.  I'm working with my favorite
client on adding some net-savvy to his app, but I'd like to be working in MC
even more.  JavaScript and Perl simply aren't as much fun.  :)

So the biggest reason for finding out what others are doing with MC is
twofold:

- What are the opportunities for a RAD tool like MC in
  a Browser-centric world?

- What untapped opportunities may still exist in the
  world of desktop applications?

The breadth of what MetaCard delivers also makes it relatively difficult to
define.  We can build almost anything for a client, but more and more they
seem to prefer that it take place inside of a browser window.

Given the relative newness of this Web fenzy, I suspect that the browser
will ultimately prove to be a transitional phase, a stepping stone on the
way to other things which allow more flexible user interfaces for both
content presentation (which is currently good on the Web) and data
manipulation (at which the Web sucks -- can you imagine using a
browser-based spreadsheet?).

There are probably several dozen categories of things MetaCard can do that
would really drive its value home to a variety of organizations.  SETI and
Napster are two popular examples of distributed apps which conceivably could
have been written in MetaCard, and I suspect there are a few thousand more
waiting to be discovered.

A question in response to your post:  Since you mentioned being able to
spend 95% of your time with MC and that most of your work is for the Web,
does that imply that you're building server-side MC CGIs?  Or "custom
browsers" a la AOL?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Multimedia Design and Development for Mac, Windows, UNIX, and the Web
 _
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717   ICQ#60248349Fax: 323-225-0716



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