Re: Printing double
Risking a flame attack I do think that printing is one of the weak points of MetaCard/Revolution (and HyperCard before that, but then I gave up using HyperCard's printing many years ago, in favour of an XFCN which provides a model like that outlined below). This is one area where I believe RealBasic substantially scores over MC/Rev. In RealBasic, one can obtain a 'Canvas' object from a variety of sources: for example any object that can appear in a window (buttons, fields, controls etc), as well as windows themselves, but also a printer object. In the case of the printer object, the size and depth of the canvas depends on the way the printer object was created (and for example whether the user has been given the opportunity to do Page Setup) - so it depends on the selected size and orientation of paper, the selected scaling, whether the printer is bw/greyscale/colour etc. Given a canvas, you can then draw on it by using the kind of commands that we all know and love - commands to move around, draw lines, shapes and text with different sizes and colours, and blat images. If the canvas belongs to a printer object, then when you're done you tell it to print the page. (A neat thing is that you can also create an abstract canvas to draw on offscreen - you can then blit that canvas to anywhere else, eg blit a portion of it to a window to scroll over the image you've created.) For some subset of tasks that users of MC/Rev/RB etc might want to accomplish, I think this model is more flexible, easier to use, and less susceptible to stange and complicated gotchas. Whether that subset is more or less than 50%... who can say. (I did raise this point before in the Revolution list, and was somewhat shot down, and told that I could achieve any effect I needed by creating objects on cards, and then printing cards to rectangles within a page. That's true up to a point; but (a) it got me into doing some contrived and awkward things and (b) I ran into all sorts of nasty issues of the kind that have recently been raised in this forum: images with grey backgrounds - partially solved that, but was left with a gray shadow; having to use a separate substack with a huge image on it, so that when it was scaled down to print it was a reasonable resolution - which then produces flashes on screen when it comes to print. So although the 'into rectangle' option certainly adds a lot to what you can what you can achieve with printing in MC/Rev, I still feel that supporting the more direct model would add a lot.) (And that's without getting into the other way that I think RB would score over MC/Rev - yet let me say now I still prefer the latter - the true OOPiness, with subclassing and inheritance. The printing support within RB just arises naturally out of the way that everything else works. But that's a whole other invitation to get flamed...) Yours in swift retreat to the bunker, Ben Rubinstein | Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cognitive Applications Ltd | Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600 http://www.cogapp.com| Fax : +44 (0)1273-728866 Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
Re: Printing double
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >From what I have experienced (Win32 MC 2.3.2) you have to have the card > completely uncovered when doing a snapshot. You don't want even menus or > Message Box windows showing. Is the printing stack something you have to > show during printing or is it just something you use to set up the printing > (like a Page Setup screen)? If it is just for print setup then can you > either hide the stack or move it off screen temporarily during the snapshot? > Make sure that after you move/hide the printing stack you wait a fraction of > a second so the screen can refresh prior to taking the snapshot. Once you > take the snapshot then you should be able to print the card and show the > printing stack if you really need to. Thanks. What I ended up doing was creating a duplicate opaque image for each transparent image I needed to print. The duplicate is hidden, but when printing I show it and hide the transparent one. I was hoping to be able to create snapshots on the fly for printing, but if the stack is hidden or the screen locked while creating a snapshot, you don't get an image. I didn't try setting the stack offscreen. I have a suite of almost 50 stacks to print, so creating duplicate images on all of them was time-consuming. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | 612-724-1596 Custom hypermedia solutions| http://www.hyperactivesw.com Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
Re: Printing double
> I have to use the images. If I either lock the screen or open my > printing stack as invisible, the snapshot takes a picture of > the desktop > and part of the underlying stack. I can't get a snapshot > without showing > the printing stack, which I don't want to do. Suggestions? > > <...snip...> > > Getting desperate here -- have a deadline and this is taking far too > long. How do I get a snapshot without showing the printing process? > >From what I have experienced (Win32 MC 2.3.2) you have to have the card completely uncovered when doing a snapshot. You don't want even menus or Message Box windows showing. Is the printing stack something you have to show during printing or is it just something you use to set up the printing (like a Page Setup screen)? If it is just for print setup then can you either hide the stack or move it off screen temporarily during the snapshot? Make sure that after you move/hide the printing stack you wait a fraction of a second so the screen can refresh prior to taking the snapshot. Once you take the snapshot then you should be able to print the card and show the printing stack if you really need to. Larry Huisingh Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
Re: Printing double
Scott Raney wrote: > The best workaround is just to not use transparent images on stuff you > will be printing. If you have to allow for them, you could hide the > objects with text, do your own "import snapshot from rect" to grab an > opaque image, delete or hide the original, then show the text objects > again before printing. I have to use the images. If I either lock the screen or open my printing stack as invisible, the snapshot takes a picture of the desktop and part of the underlying stack. I can't get a snapshot without showing the printing stack, which I don't want to do. Suggestions? Another problem -- whenever I use this technique, any script I have inserted into the backscripts or inserted via "start using" is removed from the hierarchy at some point and the remainder of the printing script (which is in the inserted script) fails. What is causing this to happen? Getting desperate here -- have a deadline and this is taking far too long. How do I get a snapshot without showing the printing process? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | 612-724-1596 Custom hypermedia solutions| http://www.hyperactivesw.com Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
Re: Printing double
"Raymond E. Griffith" wrote: > > Most likely a transparent image overlaps the text. In order to get > > the background color/pattern of these things right when printing > > (printing of transparent images isn't supported by the printer drivers > > on any platform), it actually takes a snapshot of the rect on screen. > > If any text is in that rect, it's grabbed at screen resolution. But > > then that text will be drawn again at printer resolution, hence the > > "double exposure" effect. > > > Nope. Can't be that here with me. Although the card contains a gif with a > transparent background, it definitely *does not* overlap the text. That's a good point, actually. In my setup, the transparent background image covers the entire rectangle of the card. Only the center area prints double. The image is just a series of grids drawn with HC's paint tools. Text goes inside the grid. Some of the text is okay, some isn't. Some lines of text print fine in their entirety, some fuzz up in the center only. In this case, MC would be taking a snapshot of the whole card, but only the text inside one particular area seems to be affected. Seems like all the text would be overprinted in this situation, but it isn't. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | 612-724-1596 Custom hypermedia solutions| http://www.hyperactivesw.com Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
Re: Printing double
Mark Talluto wrote: > > As for the characters being offset from each other. > Have not seen that one before. What kind of a printer are you using? I've tried it with Apple's laserwriter 8 driver in a real printout, with a virtual driver called "printToPDF", and with an HP inkjet. The problem shows up on all of them, so I figure it has to be the way MC is sending the page. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | 612-724-1596 Custom hypermedia solutions| http://www.hyperactivesw.com Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
Re: Printing double
on Fri, 27 Jul 2001 11:26:10 Scott Raney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote > > On Thu, 26 Jul 2001 Jacqueline Landman Gay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I am using a simple "print this card" command to get a printout of a >> card comprised of several text fields. Some of the text comes out >> looking "overprinted" -- that is, within a rectangular area near the >> center of the card it looks like the text was printed twice, the second >> time with a 1-pixel offset. That part of the text looks blurry and bold, >> and is illegible. The double printing within this imaginary rectangle >> isn't related to any of the field rects, hidden or otherwise, and can >> start anywhere, even at the center of a character in a line of text. >> This happens whether formatForPrinting is set to true or false. The font >> is Times 12, which is installed on the Mac. Printcolors is set to false >> to avoid the gray background problem. The problem occurs in tests using >> three different print drivers. >> >> Has anyone seen this before, and what causes it? > > Most likely a transparent image overlaps the text. In order to get > the background color/pattern of these things right when printing > (printing of transparent images isn't supported by the printer drivers > on any platform), it actually takes a snapshot of the rect on screen. > If any text is in that rect, it's grabbed at screen resolution. But > then that text will be drawn again at printer resolution, hence the > "double exposure" effect. > Nope. Can't be that here with me. Although the card contains a gif with a transparent background, it definitely *does not* overlap the text. My ultimate solution was to quit MC, shut down the computer, and start over. If I printed without doing *any* editing in the stack, things were OK. Otherwise it was iffy. And I still don't know why telling a substack to open, print, and close (or to print w/out opening for that matter), would cause such printer errors as I get. As I noted, Scott, MC is great, and I love it. But the print capabilities need work. > The best workaround is just to not use transparent images on stuff you > will be printing. If you have to allow for them, you could hide the > objects with text, do your own "import snapshot from rect" to grab an > opaque image, delete or hide the original, then show the text objects > again before printing. > Regards, > Scott > Sounds like a lot of work for something that should be as easy as "print this card". But would this work for, say, cards that have to be odd sized and outside the screenrect in order to print full pages? Raymond >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> HyperActive Software | 612-724-1596 >> Custom hypermedia solutions| http://www.hyperactivesw.com Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
Re: Printing double
On Friday, July 27, 2001, at 08:15 AM, Jacqueline Landman Gay wrote: > "Raymond E. Griffith" wrote: >> >> on Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:49:39, Jacqueline Landman Gay >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> I am using a simple "print this card" command to get a printout of a >>> card comprised of several text fields. Some of the text comes out >>> looking "overprinted" -- that is, within a rectangular area near the >>> center of the card it looks like the text was printed twice, the >>> second >>> time with a 1-pixel offset. >>> >> I have seen this problem, the gray background problem, and an >> additional >> one. If I open the card, tell it to "print card", then close it >> (before the >> printing has actually happened), then I get the result of teeny-weeny >> text >> printed in a small area. > > Glad to hear I'm not alone -- but did you ever solve it? I need to get > printing working, and printing a card seems like it should be pretty > basic. I have seen the gray background problem myself. I tried putting a white graphic behind all of the controls. Thought it solved the problem, but got a gray background again the other day. Still do not have a solution to that problem. As for the characters being offset from each other. Have not seen that one before. What kind of a printer are you using? -Mark Talluto Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
Re: Printing double
Scott Raney wrote: > > Has anyone seen this before, and what causes it? > > Most likely a transparent image overlaps the text. In order to get > the background color/pattern of these things right when printing > (printing of transparent images isn't supported by the printer drivers > on any platform), it actually takes a snapshot of the rect on screen. > If any text is in that rect, it's grabbed at screen resolution. But > then that text will be drawn again at printer resolution, hence the > "double exposure" effect. > > The best workaround is just to not use transparent images on stuff you > will be printing. If you have to allow for them, you could hide the > objects with text, do your own "import snapshot from rect" to grab an > opaque image, delete or hide the original, then show the text objects > again before printing. Thanks Scott, that was the problem. Unfortunately, the images involved are all background images imported by MC from HyperCard stacks. They have to show during printing. I guess I'll have to try the snapshot thing. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | 612-724-1596 Custom hypermedia solutions| http://www.hyperactivesw.com Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
Re: Printing double
On Thu, 26 Jul 2001 Jacqueline Landman Gay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am using a simple "print this card" command to get a printout of a > card comprised of several text fields. Some of the text comes out > looking "overprinted" -- that is, within a rectangular area near the > center of the card it looks like the text was printed twice, the second > time with a 1-pixel offset. That part of the text looks blurry and bold, > and is illegible. The double printing within this imaginary rectangle > isn't related to any of the field rects, hidden or otherwise, and can > start anywhere, even at the center of a character in a line of text. > This happens whether formatForPrinting is set to true or false. The font > is Times 12, which is installed on the Mac. Printcolors is set to false > to avoid the gray background problem. The problem occurs in tests using > three different print drivers. > > Has anyone seen this before, and what causes it? Most likely a transparent image overlaps the text. In order to get the background color/pattern of these things right when printing (printing of transparent images isn't supported by the printer drivers on any platform), it actually takes a snapshot of the rect on screen. If any text is in that rect, it's grabbed at screen resolution. But then that text will be drawn again at printer resolution, hence the "double exposure" effect. The best workaround is just to not use transparent images on stuff you will be printing. If you have to allow for them, you could hide the objects with text, do your own "import snapshot from rect" to grab an opaque image, delete or hide the original, then show the text objects again before printing. Regards, Scott > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] > HyperActive Software | 612-724-1596 > Custom hypermedia solutions| http://www.hyperactivesw.com Scott Raney [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.metacard.com MetaCard: You know, there's an easier way to do that... Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
Re: Printing double
Jacqueline Landman Gay wrote: > > "Raymond E. Griffith" wrote: > > > > on Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:49:39, Jacqueline Landman Gay > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I am using a simple "print this card" command to get a printout of a > > > card comprised of several text fields. Some of the text comes out > > > looking "overprinted" -- that is, within a rectangular area near the > > > center of the card it looks like the text was printed twice, the second > > > time with a 1-pixel offset. > > > > > I have seen this problem, the gray background problem, and an additional > > one. If I open the card, tell it to "print card", then close it (before the > > printing has actually happened), then I get the result of teeny-weeny text > > printed in a small area. > > Glad to hear I'm not alone -- but did you ever solve it? I need to get > printing working, and printing a card seems like it should be pretty basic. I used to have some problems printing cards with fields but setting the rect to a proportional size solved the problem. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] > HyperActive Software | 612-724-1596 > Custom hypermedia solutions| http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ > Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm > Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list. -- Regards, Andu ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
Re: Printing double
"Raymond E. Griffith" wrote: > > on Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:49:39, Jacqueline Landman Gay > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I am using a simple "print this card" command to get a printout of a > > card comprised of several text fields. Some of the text comes out > > looking "overprinted" -- that is, within a rectangular area near the > > center of the card it looks like the text was printed twice, the second > > time with a 1-pixel offset. > > > I have seen this problem, the gray background problem, and an additional > one. If I open the card, tell it to "print card", then close it (before the > printing has actually happened), then I get the result of teeny-weeny text > printed in a small area. Glad to hear I'm not alone -- but did you ever solve it? I need to get printing working, and printing a card seems like it should be pretty basic. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | 612-724-1596 Custom hypermedia solutions| http://www.hyperactivesw.com Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
Re: Printing double
on Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:49:39, Jacqueline Landman Gay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am using a simple "print this card" command to get a printout of a > card comprised of several text fields. Some of the text comes out > looking "overprinted" -- that is, within a rectangular area near the > center of the card it looks like the text was printed twice, the second > time with a 1-pixel offset. That part of the text looks blurry and bold, > and is illegible. The double printing within this imaginary rectangle > isn't related to any of the field rects, hidden or otherwise, and can > start anywhere, even at the center of a character in a line of text. > This happens whether formatForPrinting is set to true or false. The font > is Times 12, which is installed on the Mac. Printcolors is set to false > to avoid the gray background problem. The problem occurs in tests using > three different print drivers. > > Has anyone seen this before, and what causes it? > I have seen this problem, the gray background problem, and an additional one. If I open the card, tell it to "print card", then close it (before the printing has actually happened), then I get the result of teeny-weeny text printed in a small area. I love MC, but it does have problems with its print engine. Raymond > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] > HyperActive Software | 612-724-1596 > Custom hypermedia solutions| http://www.hyperactivesw.com Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
Printing double
I am using a simple "print this card" command to get a printout of a card comprised of several text fields. Some of the text comes out looking "overprinted" -- that is, within a rectangular area near the center of the card it looks like the text was printed twice, the second time with a 1-pixel offset. That part of the text looks blurry and bold, and is illegible. The double printing within this imaginary rectangle isn't related to any of the field rects, hidden or otherwise, and can start anywhere, even at the center of a character in a line of text. This happens whether formatForPrinting is set to true or false. The font is Times 12, which is installed on the Mac. Printcolors is set to false to avoid the gray background problem. The problem occurs in tests using three different print drivers. Has anyone seen this before, and what causes it? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | 612-724-1596 Custom hypermedia solutions| http://www.hyperactivesw.com Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not this list.
