[meteorite-list] ATTENTION: MeteoriteCollectors List Update

[Brice D. Hornback]

Hello everyone.  I have been away from meteorites and these lists for almost
a year.  I do not know everything that has taken place or what was said.
Several members of our community brought to my attention that one of our
members was using language and making comments on the list that are unfit
for our meteorite community.  Please remember, there are children on these
lists.  It's our responsibility to set a good example for the future
generations of meteorite collectors.

Joel Warren has been permantly removed and banned from the
MeteoriteCollectors list.

Also, in the future, any comments about how I maintain the
MeteoriteCollectors list should be made to me in private.  If you don't like
something I'm doing (or not doing), please email me privately to discuss it.

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,
Brice D. Hornback
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MeteoriteCollectors/


__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

[meteorite-list] IMCA not INRMCA

[Rob Wesel]

I am afraid I am going to have to chime in with Ken 
and others here. 
 
The International Non-Racist Meteorite Collectors 
Association needs to be at a separate URL, it really has nothing to do with the 
foundation of this organization. Just because the word international is 
included doesn't mean we all have to get along. I love Matteo, but his 
posts bug me, same with Arnold, and now Rhett.
 
Lists have rules, that's fine because they are 
usually owned by one person who calls the House Rules. Mr. Jones can write 
whatever rules he wants, it's his deal. The IMCA is our deal. It was a bigger 
deal than joining a chat room in that we all joined en masse upon review 
and after team construction/approval of it's policies. 
 
Now I see the emergence of a single moderator 
adding, as he sees fit, any policy he wants without consent of the members of 
the organization. If this was a decision of the board then I stand corrected, 
and still protest the decision.
 
The truth, meteorite distribution is a 
predominately testosterone driven ego challenge, dealers don't always get along. 
Our list is never the right place for this but it usually goes away. Very few 
ever get kicked off or even put on probation, and here Arnold is singled out 
even after his post was prematurely deleted. 
 
As much as I dread the daily ads, I think Arnold 
should be left to do as he does. Remember how pissed we got at Mohammad, Steve 
Arnold From Chicago is mild by comparison. 
 
Leave the IMCA to meteorites, not politics and 
remember that there is a board to decide such matters. Yes, the IMCA list is not 
a place for flame wars, or sales pitches, that's clear, but Jesus Rhett...do you 
read every post before sending it along or were you singling out Arnold well 
before that to have blasted his posts before they could ever be 
seen?
 
Matteo, sorry you were offended, but deal with it. 
Rhett, take it down a notch. Steve, justoh...do what you have to do. The ink 
has worn off my delete key.
 
We're eight months in on the IMCA and it seems 
to be working, Rhett's contribution is appreciated, lets not revert back to 
bickering, martyrdom and chaos but instead keep it simple, protect buyers 
when possible and inform the public as we have been doing.
 
--Rob Wesel # 
9275--We are the music makers...and we are the dreamers 
of the dreams.Willy Wonka, 1971
 
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  magellon 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 5:05 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 
THANKS
  Rhett, I am even more confused? Steve said "pisano" in a 
  private e-mail that Matteo made public... Then Steve admits his mistake to 
  you privately,  and you then teach him a lesson by  putting  
  him on "probation"? Does he still receive posts from the IMCA group site? 
  Or did you stop those? If he admitted he was mad and wrong, why punish 
  him? He's not racist - He was just being mad and wrong. 
  Rhett, I may not know the whole story but I know this was between two 
  people. Why are you bringing the IMCA into this? To establish "peace" 
  is NOT a good reason. The IMCA is for the authenticity of meteorites 
  "period". Are things more peaceful now? You know as well as 
  anyone  that people get mad and say things they should not. First, it 
  is up to the two individuals to try to straighten things out on their own. 
  It saddens me that you say you would do it again. Rhett, this appears 
  not be a matter of racism but more an excuse to push someone around  
  you admittedly don't like. No? Just substitute any other big dealer in 
  Steve's place. If Mike Farmer (not picking on you Mike :>) had said 
  this to Matteo,  would you have reacted the same way? If you 
  answer "yes," then why haven't you in the past? 
  You can not force people to be nice but they can learn from your good 
  example. You have kindly and privately reproved me when I broke IMCA 
  rules. So, I know you can create a harmonious environment when you try 
  without changing the path of IMCA. 
  I could not understand from your comment if the board had any say so in the 
  new change to IMCA or not? It sounded as if you did it on your own. 
  Does the board no longer make these type of policy changing decisions? 
  Please don't start talking about quitting like you did before. We all 
  appreciate your past achievements. But, If you are serious (which I 
  doubt),  I will be glad accept the position. (thank you) Best 
  case scenario,  I would share it with Jake Delgato or another member) 
  Thanks, Ken Newton    How fights 
  get started #9632 

Re: [meteorite-list] THANKS

[magellon]

Rhett,
I am even more confused? Steve said "pisano" in a private e-mail that
Matteo made public...
Then Steve admits his mistake to you privately,  and you then
teach him a lesson by  putting  him on
"probation"? Does he still receive posts from the IMCA group site?
Or did you stop those?
If he admitted he was mad and wrong, why punish him?
He's not racist - He was just being mad and wrong.
Rhett, I may not know the whole story but I know this was between two
people.
Why are you bringing the IMCA into this?
To establish "peace" is NOT a good reason.
The IMCA is for the authenticity of meteorites "period".
Are things more peaceful now?
You know as well as anyone  that people get mad and say things
they should not.
First, it is up to the two individuals to try to straighten things
out on their own.
It saddens me that you say you would do it again.
Rhett, this appears not be a matter of racism but more an excuse
to push someone around  you admittedly don't like.
No? Just substitute any other big dealer in Steve's place.
If Mike Farmer (not picking on you Mike :>) had said this to Matteo,
 would you have reacted the same way?
If you answer "yes," then why haven't you in the past?
You can not force people to be nice but they can learn from your good
example.
You have kindly and privately reproved me when I broke IMCA rules.
So, I know you can create a harmonious environment when you try without
changing the path of IMCA.
I could not understand from your comment if the board had any say so
in the new change to IMCA or not?
It sounded as if you did it on your own.
Does the board no longer make these type of policy changing decisions?
Please don't start talking about quitting like you did before.
We all appreciate your past achievements.
But, If you are serious (which I doubt),  I will be
glad accept the position. (thank you)
Best case scenario,  I would share it with Jake Delgato or another
member)
Thanks,
Ken Newton
   How
fights get started
#9632

Re: [meteorite-list] Praise well deserved

[trandall]

Hi Steve and list,

   I'll easily second your sentiments on Rob, I've ordered a number of 
meteorites from him in the last few years and he's very quick at 
shipping and very helpful as well. I've ordered from quite a few 
people from this list
(not everyone...YET!) and everyone was quick with shipping and very 
nice and helpful. Al Mitterling is another great dealer, Mike Farmer, 
Mike Blood, Mike Cottingham (Is there a pattern here?!), Eric 
Twelker, etc. I don't want to leave anyone out as I'd imagine all 
others on the list are great as well. Eventually I'll be getting 
something from everyone but I've only got so much money to spread 
around. I think everyone has their favorite dealer(s) but to avoid 
trouble I'll keep mine to myself.

;)

Regards,

Tom Randall
IMCA # 6170


>Greetings List,
>
>In the past when I've gotten good customer service from a meteorite
>dealer I've posted kudos to that specific dealer. I think we should
>share our good experiences. I must admit that I've always been a
>little tentative about ordering from dealers "across the Big Pond".
>My thought was that the delivery would take forever or get lost or
>never show up at all.
>
>I recently had the priviledge of meeting Rob Elliot (Fernlea
>Meteorites) in the Chicago area. I found him to be a very down to
>earth, personable gentleman. He explained his shipping policies to me
>and I was quite surprised. He told me that orders from him in the
>U.K. usually got to their destinations, in the U.S. faster than state
>to state shipments here in our own country. I have to admit, I was a
>bit skeptical.
>
>I'd had my eye on a nice slice of Cumberland Falls on Rob's site for
>some time and made the decision this past Sunday to go for it. Order
>placed Sunday afternoon. Rob notified me that the specimen would ship
>Monday 7/22. The Cumberland Falls specimen was safely in my hands
>this afternoon Weds 7/24/ at 1:30 P.M. Central. Less than 48 hours
>from the U.K. to my front door. This to me is phenominal service.
>Packaging was above and beyond what was needed to ensure that the
>specimen arrived in one piece, and the Cumberland is absolutely
>beautiful! Thanks Rob!
>
>I now think I had a pre-conceived prejudice that ordering from
>overseas simply wouldn't work. I now know better. I have to say that
>this was the most professional, time efficinet and best packaged
>purchase that I've made in the four years that I've been collecting.
>
>If you've been hesitant about ordering from Rob because he's
>overseas, there's absollutely no need to be. Give him a try. I know
>you'll be very pleasantly surprised.
>I know I was.
>
>Thanx,
>Steve
>
>
>
>=
>Steve Witt
>IMCA #9020
>
>http://www.meteoritecollectors.org
>
>__
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
>http://health.yahoo.com
>
>__
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


-- 

__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] Cyclic mass extinction?

[Dave Hostetter]

Hi:

Actually, there's even some skepticism about whether or not the "26 million
year periodicity" is even real.  It's certainly not clockwork.  Scientific
American has some interesting stuff about this at
.  Scroll down the page
about 2/3 of the way and look for the FAQ question about it.  There are a
couple of other questions there that some listees might find of interest,
too.

Dave Hostetter
Curator of the Planetarium
Lafayette (LA) Natural History Museum and Planetarium

> Hi Al, Tracy, Edward and others interested in the mass extinction
> periodicity
> problem...
>



__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

[meteorite-list] dry gas for irons?

[Jensan Scientifics/ Sci-Mall]

Good evening Listees,

Anybody know whether there are brands of "pressurized air" cans (as used
to blow dust out of computers, off photo negs, etc) that features a dry
gas suitable for displacing the air and preserving iron meteorites in
sealed containers?

Most, if not all cans tout that they are HCFC and CFC-free, but no other
info.

Seems like an easy way to give those irons some added protection if you
can go to Office Max and get a squirt can of "air" for a few bucks to
shoot into those sealed baggies and display boxes we all have.

Best,
Dave and Sarah

__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

[meteorite-list] Cyclic mass extinction?

[Matson, Robert]

Hi Al, Tracy, Edward and others interested in the mass extinction
periodicity
problem...

For newcomers, we had a brief exchange on this subject about a year and a
half
ago.  Here's an excerpt from one of my posts in reply to Sam Kimpton:

Matson 1/22/2001:
-

"I've heard various figures, with several million year error bars,
but there does seem to be some evidence of periodicity.  Naturally,
one would like to identify the 'trigger'.

"... the proposed Nemesis star would have to be a red dwarf
or a brown dwarf.  It would not be that difficult with
current technology to see such a star at aphelion (which is
about where the star would be for the current cycle).  But
simply observing the star is only part of the battle; the
hard part is observing it for a long enough baseline to
determine that it is co-orbiting with the sun.

"Phil Bagnall once e-mailed me that the proposed orbit of this
star would have to be so elongated that it would not remain
stable (and that the orbit could not have survived for the
duration of the Solar System).  He may be correct -- I cannot
say without seeing the model assumptions and the resulting
data.  A 26-million-year period requires an orbital semi-major
axis of 87,760 a.u.  Assuming the orbit is extremely elliptical,
and the star is currently at aphelion, its distance would be
twice this, or ~175,500 a.u.  This is about 2.8 light-years --
more than half the distance to the nearest known star system.

"Depending on the plane of the orbit relative to Alpha-, Beta-
and Proxima Centauri (and/or possibly Barnard's star, Wolf 359,
and the other 6 stars within 10 light-years of the solar system),
the orbit might be unstable.  At best it is chaotic long-term
because of the gravitational perturbations of the Centaurus
trinary system.  But suppose perihelion lies between our solar
system and Centaurus.  If so, it would take quite some time
(tens of orbits, more?) before the line of apsides would precess
to bring aphelion in the direction of Centaurus.  If the Nemesis
period has remained at roughly 26 million years, then there hasn't
been time for even 200 orbits."

- - - -

Now, in 2002, I'd say it's highly unlikely that a dwarf companion
to the sun -- even in such a highly elliptical orbit -- would
have evaded detection by Hubble or other telescopes.

Others have theorized that the sun's orbit around the galactic
center causes it to periodically pass through the galactic plane
(presumably twice per orbit -- one ascending node, one descending
node), and that this plane passage somehow perturbs comets in
the Oort cloud leading to increased chaos and impacts in the
inner solar system.  But I see two problems with this theory,
which perhaps someone out there can help me with.  One is that
this "plane passage" is really a non-event; the local stellar
density really doesn't oscillate that much since the galactic
plane is not really a "plane" in the geometric sense.  It has
considerable "thickness" -- on the order of 2000 light-years.
The sun is currently only ~50 light-years north of the galactic
"plane", so the local stellar density is about as thick as it
gets.  Unless the sun's orbit takes it far above and below
the plane (say > +/- 500 light-years), it doesn't seem like
the density is going to oscillate much.

I considered that it might not be the plane crossings of a
slightly inclined solar orbit that produces the disruptions,
but the periapsis of a slightly eccentric orbit that takes the
sun closer to the denser galactic center once per orbit.  The
problem with this is that the sun's orbit around the galactic
center is almost perfectly circular.

But the second (and larger) problem is that even if there is a
galactic "carousel" effect, the period is wrong.  The sun orbits
the galactic plane about once every 225-250 million years, so
plane crossings would occur every 112-125 million years (and
periapsis once every 225-250 million years).  Not a good match
to the much shorter extinction cycle.

What about the spiral arms?  Passage through these, I think,
would have a much more disruptive effect.  But from what I've
read, this occurs very rarely since the sun is at a distance
from the galactic center that has an orbital period very close
to that of the spiral arms.

So the question remains:  what sort of natural events can occur
that have a periodicity of ~26 million years?  Gravitational
laws place limits on the range of a sun-orbiting "trigger" --
something in the 1.5 to 3 light-year range.  Gravimetric events
associated with motion through the galactic plane appear to have
periods much longer than the observed mass-extinction period.
It's an interesting problem... --Rob

__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] Torino Scale

[Walter Branch]

Bernd,

>House-sized chunks of rock would be
>tossed hundreds of miles and our atmosphere would be >saturated with dust
for years.

This would be bad...

Thanks for all the information.

-Walter

---
Walter Branch, Ph.D.
Branch Meteorites
322 Stephenson Ave., Suite B
Savannah, GA  31405 USA
www.branchmeteorites.com
- Original Message -
From: "Bernd Pauli HD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "meteorite-list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 2:45 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Torino Scale


> Walter wrote:
>
> > how large does an object have to be for it not to vaporize
> > completely upon plunging through Earth's atmosphere, i.e.,
> > for there to be anything sizeable left to cause wide destruction
> > once it hits the ground (or water)?
>
> Hello Again,
>
> According to G. Verschuur, the consequences may be something like:
>
> Very Large (>10 km) - Global - Mass extinctions
> Large (2-10 km) - Global - Some extinctions
> Medium (0.2-2 km) - Regional - Threat to civilisation
> Small (30-200 m) - Local - Severe
> Very Small (10-30 m) - Local - Minor
>
> If a really big one hit the Earth, as big as the the impactor that
> killed the dinosaurs (10-15 km), its destructive force and the conse-
> quences would be horrifying. It would hit us with the force of about
> 100 million megatons of TNT - this is more than 10,000 times the entire
> arsenal of nuclear weapons. If it plunged into an ocean, there would be
> tsunamis hundreds of feet high. House-sized chunks of rock would be
> tossed hundreds of miles and our atmosphere would be saturated with
> dust for years.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Bernd
>
> __
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

[meteorite-list] (no subject)

[Rosemary Hackney]

Hi everybody..
 
I am looking for gem cases to put some of my 
meteorites in. I thought I saw someone offering some for sale a while back. Does 
anyone have them for sale or have an idea where I might buy them?
 
Thanks
 
Rosie

RE: [meteorite-list] THANKS

[Charlie Devine]

Steve,

I'm Irish-American but until the age of 13 lived in an all-Italian
neighborhood.  Rhode Island has a large Italian-American population.
The word, borrowing your phonetic spelling, pie-zon-o, is spoken quite a
bit around here, by both Italians and non-Italians.  I've never known it
to imply anything other then "my good friend."
Best wishes,
Charlie


--- Begin Message ---

Greetings all,

I don't want to speak for Steve Arnold, but I believe there has been
a misunderstanding. If the "racist" comment is his use of the word
"pizzano", it was misinterpreted. The word he was trying to convey
was (I don't know the spelling so will write it phoenitically) 
"pie-zon-o". Which from what he (Steve) thinks and from what I've
always thought, is a word meaning "my friend" or something to that
effect. Maybe I've always misunderstood the word and it is racist,
but I've heard it used quite a bit as a "term of endearment". When I
met Steve he was truly upset and didn't understand why Matteo was mad
at him. I honestly believe that no foul was intended.

thanx,
Steve


--- Greg Redfern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rhett,
> 
>Me too. It is a rare commodity in this world. Keep up the great
> work. One
> GOOD thing is that the rules for governing both lists were made
> stronger by
> all of this.
> 
> All the best,
> Greg Redfern
> IMCA #5781
> www.meteoritecollectors.org
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Walter
> Branch
> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 8:40 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] THANKS
> 
> 
> Rhett,
> 
> Thanks very much for the explanation.  I appreciate your honesty
> and candor.
> 
> -Walter
> 
> ---
> Walter Branch, Ph.D.
> Branch Meteorites
> 322 Stephenson Ave., Suite B
> Savannah, GA  31405 USA
> www.branchmeteorites.com
> - Original Message -
> From: "Rhett Bourland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Walter Branch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Steve Arnold,
> Chicago!!!"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 8:27 PM
> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] THANKS
> 
> 
> > Actualy Walter, I think that Steve has confused this list with
> the mailing
> > list for the IMCA.  I am the one that has called him a racist
> because he
> > made racist comments towards Matteo Chinellato after Matteo
> expressed
> > discontent with getting Steve's multiple messages for the same
> material.
> If
> > making racist comments towards someone isn't reason enough to
> call someone
> a
> > racist I'm not sure what is.  He almost got kicked out of the
> IMCA because
> I
> > will not tolerate such comments among the INTERNATIONAL Meteorite
> Collectors
> > Association but since there was nothing against that on the
> website he
> > wasn't kicked out but if you'll check various pages there are now
> statements
> > saying that such actions are now grounds for removal and I can't
> believe I
> > had to actually make such statements and they are only there
> because Steve
> > proved me wrong.
> > His comments to Matteo put him on a sort of probation with the
> IMCA where
> he
> > would be watched a bit more closely than other members.  Last
> night,
> despite
> > the following statement on the IMCA's website
> >
> > "The purpose of the mailing list is to alert people of frauds and
> if a new
> > person to wishes to join the association that we don't personally
> know
> then
> > we will post to the list asking for any experiences that anyone
> has had.
> If
> > you would like to post about anything meteorite related
> (discoveries,
> > questions, good natured debate) that is welcomed as well. Please,
> DO NOT
> > post any sales or flames to this list. There are plenty of other
> lists for
> > those puposes. Failure to adhere to that rule will result in you
> being
> > removed from it (but not out of the group). "
> >
> > Steve decided to post another one of his sales messages for the
> same old
> > material to that list and as a result got removed from the
> mailing list
> but
> > not the IMCA.
> > Also, despite what Mr. Arnold may think, I do not hate him.  I
> don't
> > particulary care for him because of his comments to Matteo as
> well as some
> > rather rude comments that have been made to other people off list
> that I
> > have been told about but I do not care for him because of those
> actions.
> > I apologize to anyone who may not care about this but I wanted to
> go on
> the
> > record as being the one who called Steve a racist because of his
> racist
> > comments made towards Matteo.  Perhaps Matteo would be willing to
> shed a
> > little light on this issue?
> > Sincerely,
> > Rhett Bourland
> > www.asteroidmodels.com
> > www.asteroidmodels.com/personal
> > www.meteoritecollectors.org
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Walter
> > Branch
> > Sent: Wednesday, J

RE: [meteorite-list] THANKS

[Rhett Bourland]

His posts need my approval before they go out to the IMCA's mailing list
because he was put on a sort of probation because of his past actions.  He
attempted to post a sales message to the IMCA's list despite the fact that
such messages are prohibited and that message was blocked before it went out
to everyone and he was subsequently removed for attempting to post a sales
message.

Rhett Bourland
www.asteroidmodels.com
www.asteroidmodels.com/personal
www.meteoritecollectors.org

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jim
Strope
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 2:53 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] THANKS


Correct me if I am wrong but I think Rhett revoked Steve's posting
privileges based upon the following statement:

> "The purpose of the mailing list is to alert people of frauds
> > Steve decided to post another one of his sales messages for the same old
> > material to that list and as a result got removed from the mailing list
but
> > not the IMCA.

However, I went back and looked at the past messages for the groups and it
seems that Steve HAS NOT posted sales messages to the collectorsassociation
group mailing list.

Perhaps in the flood of sales updates to other mailing lists, Rhett thought
they were coming from the collectors association   :D~

Jim Strope
421 Fourth Street
Glen Dale, WV  26038

Catch a Falling Star Meteorites
http://www.catchafallingstar.com

- Original Message -
From: "magellon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] THANKS


>
> Rhett,
> I am really confused with this action so if I am out of line please
correct me.
> I just want to be sure that Mr. Arnold is indeed a racist because this is
a very
> serious charge
> and now his reputation is sullied by making it public.
> Racists slurs are very damaging and hurtful to the recipients.
> They should not be tolerated.
> However the intentions behind the slur are equally important.
> ( Some Afro-Americans use the "n" word  in friendship when addressing
> each other but would not tolerate it from  another race)
> So, are you sure Mr. Arnold was trying to hurt the feelings of Matteo?
> Are you sure Mr. Arnold is a racist?
> Did Matteo contact him personally first to rectify matters?
> Obviously Matteo must have contacted you at some time.
> Did you contact Mr. Arnold privately to get his side of the matter?
> Should Mr. Arnold be judged by rules that did not exist when the offense
was
> committed?
> Why would IMCA be involved when this has nothing to do with meteorites or
> meteorite sales?
> Why has Mr. Arnold been banned from the IMCA group list when (according to
my
> e-mails) - HE HAS NEVER USED IT? NOT EVEN ONE POST!!
> So is IMCA going to monitor posts on the LIST and put the big dealers on a
> "sort of probation" when they get into " undue assaults or racial
comments"
> (I've read a lot worse than a racial slur- i.e. sexual slur) or is this
just for
> the little new people?
>  Do you think the same rules should apply to all members?
>
> If the IMCA is now going to concern itself with "relationships" as well as
> "authenticity",
> I'm concerned with its new direction and to what it might lead!
> Did the majority of board members approve of this change?
> I think this situation could have been handled privately without
accusations
> and without  IMCA involvement.
> But now it is public and the IMCA has opened itself to a possible slander
> charge..
> I have found Mr. Arnold very open to suggestion.
> He loves this group and I don't think he would intentionally hurt anyone.
> I don't believe he is racist.
>  His lack of experience may irritate others, but  none of us wants our
"freeness
> of speech" regulated.
> I do not take Matteo's hurt  feelings lightly unless he failed to contact
Mr.
> Arnold to straighten things out privately.
> Rhettt, again if I am out of line,  please correct me. (these are
questions -
> not flames)
> Thanks,
> Ken Newton
> #9632
>
>
>
>
> Rhett Bourland wrote:
>
> > Actualy Walter, I think that Steve has confused this list with the
mailing
> > list for the IMCA.  I am the one that has called him a racist because he
> > made racist comments towards Matteo Chinellato after Matteo expressed
> > discontent with getting Steve's multiple messages for the same material.
If
> > making racist comments towards someone isn't reason enough to call
someone a
> > racist I'm not sure what is.  He almost got kicked out of the IMCA
because I
> > will not tolerate such comments among the INTERNATIONAL Meteorite
Collectors
> > Association but since there was nothing against that on the website he
> > wasn't kicked out but if you'll check various pages there are now
statements
> > saying that such actions are now grounds for removal and I can't believe
I
> > had to actually make such statements and they are only

RE: [meteorite-list] THANKS

[Rhett Bourland]

In a nutshell, I saw someone making comments that seemed to be belittling
someone else because of the country that person lives in which were
explained by Steve in a private email to me as "getting carried away in the
heat of battle."  I took action, privately, based on those comments to make
sure that a friendly atmosphere is preserved for our friends in other
countries.  One of those actions was basically putting someone on probation.
This same person attempted to post a sales message to a list that clearly
says "DON'T POST SALES OR YOU WILL BE REMOVED" and is removed, privately,
for it.  Not once did I ever make any public comments about any of this
until various people started asking what he was talking about.  I do
apologize to anyone who doesn't care about this private matter that I would
have liked to have kept that way.  I stand by my actions and would do the
exact same thing if I had the chance again.  If anyone else has a better
solution for this situation where they don't know everything that went on
and should have stayed private I invite you to present it.  To anyone who
even cares, continue to read for an extended version of the above paragraph.

In this email that Steve sent Matteo he was rather unfriendly to say the
least.  I don't remember the exact wording of it but I do remember that his
comments were along the lines of how this is a free country and despite how
it may be over in his backward country here in America he's free to say what
he wants and he doesn't appreciate "pizzanos" like Matteo trying to tell him
what to do which would hardly make it a term of endearment in this case.
That certainly seemed rather racist (if for nothing other than a lack of
better word) to me and also, please remember that I'm running an
organization that prides itself on the fact that many people from many
different countries are members.  While it is true that the directors are
American and most of the membership is American as well I do everything
possible to make it friendly for people of all nations to not only join but
feel comfortable with other members regardless of where they may be coming
from.  Don't get me wrong, I'm an american and wouldn't want to live
anywhere else but I totally respect people from other countries.
Admittedly, this doesn't involve authenticity of meteorites but what it does
involve is the fact that one person is making an unfriendly enviroment for
another person because that other person is from a different culture.
I do apologize if I detracted from racism in its most horrible forms but
please try to take into account where I'm coming from as well.  Also
remember that I NEVER did any of this stuff publicly until last tonight and
I would have been perfectly happy keeping every single bit of it private but
it was Steve who started whining to everyone else.  I also did contact Steve
about it and his excuse was that he just "got carried away in the heat of
battle."  It was only after that had taken place that he started going on
and on about it to other people who had no idea what he was talking about.
Also keep in mind that there were no rules in place about this sort of thing
only because we expected that people were above this sort of crap and they
just weren't needed but apparently we were proven wrong.  We will NOT be the
"polite police" but on the other hand I will not sit idley by and let one
person attempt to belittle another person because they may be from another
countryand create a hostile enviroment for our friends in other countries.
The reason you didn't see Steve's advertisement post on the IMCA's mailing
list is because the guy's messages need approval before they are passed on
to the rest of the list because of his actions with Matteo and I blocked
that message.
Also, as a few of you know, there have been disputes between various members
of the IMCA that they wanted us to take part in and we declined because
there just wasn't anything for us to do.  I would ask anyone who falls in
that catagory to please provide more insigtht but quite frankly, its all
private and I'd like to keep it that way.
If anyone else thinks they could handle all of this better I invite you to
step up and take over the IMCA and all the stuff that comes with it.  The
pay is non existant.  You'll need to have a good understanding of HTML and
javascript so you can work on the website.  You'll also get to make sure all
the webserver and DNS stuff stays up and running.  You should also be able
to handle multiple emails from people who think they may have found a
meteorite in their backyard and want to know how to sell their amazing
finds.  You will need to make this group as accomodating to people from all
backgrounds as possible so that other people don't start screaming and
crying that the group somehow persecutes them for whatever reasons, real or
imagined.  So what do you get out of all of this?  The thought that somehow
you may possibly be making a difference in this world and you also

Re: [meteorite-list] Cyclic mass extinction?

[Edward R. Hodges]

When Lowell spotted canals on Mars everyone though he was crazy, one hundred
years ago. He was wrong, but his willingness to offer up theories lead to
more exploration. That's why I find this theory interesting, because who
knows where it will lead. The Iron Sun theory at least we can answer in own
lifetime. -Edward

Edward R. Hodges
www.meteoriteonline.com
IMCA #4173

- Original Message -
From: "Tracy Latimer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Cyclic mass extinction?


> The trouble with many of these theories (Nemesis star, iron sun, etc.) is
> that they are on the wacko fringe.  The evidence for them is not
> sufficiently established yet that they can be taken as a serious
> challenge, which is not to say that they are completely ridiculous.  There
> needs to be more research by independent groups, and the data need to be
> checked against each other and build more of a case before these theories
> will get anywhere near mainstream thought.  Go, scientific method!
>
> Tracy Latimer
>
>
>
> __
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] THANKS

[Jim Strope]

Correct me if I am wrong but I think Rhett revoked Steve's posting
privileges based upon the following statement:

> "The purpose of the mailing list is to alert people of frauds
> > Steve decided to post another one of his sales messages for the same old
> > material to that list and as a result got removed from the mailing list
but
> > not the IMCA.

However, I went back and looked at the past messages for the groups and it
seems that Steve HAS NOT posted sales messages to the collectorsassociation
group mailing list.

Perhaps in the flood of sales updates to other mailing lists, Rhett thought
they were coming from the collectors association   :D~

Jim Strope
421 Fourth Street
Glen Dale, WV  26038

Catch a Falling Star Meteorites
http://www.catchafallingstar.com

- Original Message -
From: "magellon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] THANKS


>
> Rhett,
> I am really confused with this action so if I am out of line please
correct me.
> I just want to be sure that Mr. Arnold is indeed a racist because this is
a very
> serious charge
> and now his reputation is sullied by making it public.
> Racists slurs are very damaging and hurtful to the recipients.
> They should not be tolerated.
> However the intentions behind the slur are equally important.
> ( Some Afro-Americans use the "n" word  in friendship when addressing
> each other but would not tolerate it from  another race)
> So, are you sure Mr. Arnold was trying to hurt the feelings of Matteo?
> Are you sure Mr. Arnold is a racist?
> Did Matteo contact him personally first to rectify matters?
> Obviously Matteo must have contacted you at some time.
> Did you contact Mr. Arnold privately to get his side of the matter?
> Should Mr. Arnold be judged by rules that did not exist when the offense
was
> committed?
> Why would IMCA be involved when this has nothing to do with meteorites or
> meteorite sales?
> Why has Mr. Arnold been banned from the IMCA group list when (according to
my
> e-mails) - HE HAS NEVER USED IT? NOT EVEN ONE POST!!
> So is IMCA going to monitor posts on the LIST and put the big dealers on a
> "sort of probation" when they get into " undue assaults or racial
comments"
> (I've read a lot worse than a racial slur- i.e. sexual slur) or is this
just for
> the little new people?
>  Do you think the same rules should apply to all members?
>
> If the IMCA is now going to concern itself with "relationships" as well as
> "authenticity",
> I'm concerned with its new direction and to what it might lead!
> Did the majority of board members approve of this change?
> I think this situation could have been handled privately without
accusations
> and without  IMCA involvement.
> But now it is public and the IMCA has opened itself to a possible slander
> charge..
> I have found Mr. Arnold very open to suggestion.
> He loves this group and I don't think he would intentionally hurt anyone.
> I don't believe he is racist.
>  His lack of experience may irritate others, but  none of us wants our
"freeness
> of speech" regulated.
> I do not take Matteo's hurt  feelings lightly unless he failed to contact
Mr.
> Arnold to straighten things out privately.
> Rhettt, again if I am out of line,  please correct me. (these are
questions -
> not flames)
> Thanks,
> Ken Newton
> #9632
>
>
>
>
> Rhett Bourland wrote:
>
> > Actualy Walter, I think that Steve has confused this list with the
mailing
> > list for the IMCA.  I am the one that has called him a racist because he
> > made racist comments towards Matteo Chinellato after Matteo expressed
> > discontent with getting Steve's multiple messages for the same material.
If
> > making racist comments towards someone isn't reason enough to call
someone a
> > racist I'm not sure what is.  He almost got kicked out of the IMCA
because I
> > will not tolerate such comments among the INTERNATIONAL Meteorite
Collectors
> > Association but since there was nothing against that on the website he
> > wasn't kicked out but if you'll check various pages there are now
statements
> > saying that such actions are now grounds for removal and I can't believe
I
> > had to actually make such statements and they are only there because
Steve
> > proved me wrong.
> > His comments to Matteo put him on a sort of probation with the IMCA
where he
> > would be watched a bit more closely than other members.  Last night,
despite
> > the following statement on the IMCA's website
> >
> > "The purpose of the mailing list is to alert people of frauds and if a
new
> > person to wishes to join the association that we don't personally know
then
> > we will post to the list asking for any experiences that anyone has had.
If
> > you would like to post about anything meteorite related (discoveries,
> > questions, good natured debate) that is welcomed as well. Please, DO NOT
> > post any sales or flames to this list. There are pl

Re: [meteorite-list] THANKS

[Sharkkb8]

Appears that Steve may have meant "paisano" but spelled it "pizzano", if 
that's the case this whole big thing is based on bad spelling rather than an 
ethnic slur.

My understanding is that "paisan" or "paisano" is roughly equivalent to 
"dude" or "bro", and is a term of endearment rather than an insult.  

Gregory

__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

[meteorite-list] Torino Scale

[Bernd Pauli HD]

Walter wrote:

> how large does an object have to be for it not to vaporize
> completely upon plunging through Earth's atmosphere, i.e.,
> for there to be anything sizeable left to cause wide destruction
> once it hits the ground (or water)?

Hello Again,

According to G. Verschuur, the consequences may be something like:

Very Large (>10 km) -   Global - Mass extinctions
Large (2-10 km) -   Global - Some extinctions
Medium (0.2-2 km)   -   Regional - Threat to civilisation
Small (30-200 m)-   Local - Severe
Very Small (10-30 m)-   Local - Minor

If a really big one hit the Earth, as big as the the impactor that
killed the dinosaurs (10-15 km), its destructive force and the conse-
quences would be horrifying. It would hit us with the force of about
100 million megatons of TNT - this is more than 10,000 times the entire
arsenal of nuclear weapons. If it plunged into an ocean, there would be
tsunamis hundreds of feet high. House-sized chunks of rock would be
tossed hundreds of miles and our atmosphere would be saturated with
dust for years.


Best regards,

Bernd

__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] THANKS

[magellon]

Rhett,
I am really confused with this action so if I am out of line please correct me.
I just want to be sure that Mr. Arnold is indeed a racist because this is a very
serious charge
and now his reputation is sullied by making it public.
Racists slurs are very damaging and hurtful to the recipients.
They should not be tolerated.
However the intentions behind the slur are equally important.
( Some Afro-Americans use the "n" word  in friendship when addressing
each other but would not tolerate it from  another race)
So, are you sure Mr. Arnold was trying to hurt the feelings of Matteo?
Are you sure Mr. Arnold is a racist?
Did Matteo contact him personally first to rectify matters?
Obviously Matteo must have contacted you at some time.
Did you contact Mr. Arnold privately to get his side of the matter?
Should Mr. Arnold be judged by rules that did not exist when the offense was
committed?
Why would IMCA be involved when this has nothing to do with meteorites or
meteorite sales?
Why has Mr. Arnold been banned from the IMCA group list when (according to my
e-mails) - HE HAS NEVER USED IT? NOT EVEN ONE POST!!
So is IMCA going to monitor posts on the LIST and put the big dealers on a
"sort of probation" when they get into " undue assaults or racial comments"
(I've read a lot worse than a racial slur- i.e. sexual slur) or is this just for
the little new people?
 Do you think the same rules should apply to all members?

If the IMCA is now going to concern itself with "relationships" as well as
"authenticity",
I'm concerned with its new direction and to what it might lead!
Did the majority of board members approve of this change?
I think this situation could have been handled privately without  accusations
and without  IMCA involvement.
But now it is public and the IMCA has opened itself to a possible slander
charge..
I have found Mr. Arnold very open to suggestion.
He loves this group and I don't think he would intentionally hurt anyone.
I don't believe he is racist.
 His lack of experience may irritate others, but  none of us wants our "freeness
of speech" regulated.
I do not take Matteo's hurt  feelings lightly unless he failed to contact Mr.
Arnold to straighten things out privately.
Rhettt, again if I am out of line,  please correct me. (these are questions -
not flames)
Thanks,
Ken Newton
#9632




Rhett Bourland wrote:

> Actualy Walter, I think that Steve has confused this list with the mailing
> list for the IMCA.  I am the one that has called him a racist because he
> made racist comments towards Matteo Chinellato after Matteo expressed
> discontent with getting Steve's multiple messages for the same material.  If
> making racist comments towards someone isn't reason enough to call someone a
> racist I'm not sure what is.  He almost got kicked out of the IMCA because I
> will not tolerate such comments among the INTERNATIONAL Meteorite Collectors
> Association but since there was nothing against that on the website he
> wasn't kicked out but if you'll check various pages there are now statements
> saying that such actions are now grounds for removal and I can't believe I
> had to actually make such statements and they are only there because Steve
> proved me wrong.
> His comments to Matteo put him on a sort of probation with the IMCA where he
> would be watched a bit more closely than other members.  Last night, despite
> the following statement on the IMCA's website
>
> "The purpose of the mailing list is to alert people of frauds and if a new
> person to wishes to join the association that we don't personally know then
> we will post to the list asking for any experiences that anyone has had. If
> you would like to post about anything meteorite related (discoveries,
> questions, good natured debate) that is welcomed as well. Please, DO NOT
> post any sales or flames to this list. There are plenty of other lists for
> those puposes. Failure to adhere to that rule will result in you being
> removed from it (but not out of the group). "
>
> Steve decided to post another one of his sales messages for the same old
> material to that list and as a result got removed from the mailing list but
> not the IMCA.
> Also, despite what Mr. Arnold may think, I do not hate him.  I don't
> particulary care for him because of his comments to Matteo as well as some
> rather rude comments that have been made to other people off list that I
> have been told about but I do not care for him because of those actions.
> I apologize to anyone who may not care about this but I wanted to go on the
> record as being the one who called Steve a racist because of his racist
> comments made towards Matteo.  Perhaps Matteo would be willing to shed a
> little light on this issue?
> Sincerely,
> Rhett Bourland
> www.asteroidmodels.com
> www.asteroidmodels.com/personal
> www.meteoritecollectors.org
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Walter
> Branch
> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 

[meteorite-list] Asteroid Comic

[MrX3010]

A new method  of getting rid of those pesky asteroids that threaten our planet from time to time.

http://members.aol.com/majesticgallery//ScientistComic.gif

enjoy,
Ron

RE: [meteorite-list] THANKS

[Steve Witt]

Greetings all,

I don't want to speak for Steve Arnold, but I believe there has been
a misunderstanding. If the "racist" comment is his use of the word
"pizzano", it was misinterpreted. The word he was trying to convey
was (I don't know the spelling so will write it phoenitically) 
"pie-zon-o". Which from what he (Steve) thinks and from what I've
always thought, is a word meaning "my friend" or something to that
effect. Maybe I've always misunderstood the word and it is racist,
but I've heard it used quite a bit as a "term of endearment". When I
met Steve he was truly upset and didn't understand why Matteo was mad
at him. I honestly believe that no foul was intended.

thanx,
Steve


--- Greg Redfern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rhett,
> 
>Me too. It is a rare commodity in this world. Keep up the great
> work. One
> GOOD thing is that the rules for governing both lists were made
> stronger by
> all of this.
> 
> All the best,
> Greg Redfern
> IMCA #5781
> www.meteoritecollectors.org
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Walter
> Branch
> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 8:40 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] THANKS
> 
> 
> Rhett,
> 
> Thanks very much for the explanation.  I appreciate your honesty
> and candor.
> 
> -Walter
> 
> ---
> Walter Branch, Ph.D.
> Branch Meteorites
> 322 Stephenson Ave., Suite B
> Savannah, GA  31405 USA
> www.branchmeteorites.com
> - Original Message -
> From: "Rhett Bourland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Walter Branch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Steve Arnold,
> Chicago!!!"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 8:27 PM
> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] THANKS
> 
> 
> > Actualy Walter, I think that Steve has confused this list with
> the mailing
> > list for the IMCA.  I am the one that has called him a racist
> because he
> > made racist comments towards Matteo Chinellato after Matteo
> expressed
> > discontent with getting Steve's multiple messages for the same
> material.
> If
> > making racist comments towards someone isn't reason enough to
> call someone
> a
> > racist I'm not sure what is.  He almost got kicked out of the
> IMCA because
> I
> > will not tolerate such comments among the INTERNATIONAL Meteorite
> Collectors
> > Association but since there was nothing against that on the
> website he
> > wasn't kicked out but if you'll check various pages there are now
> statements
> > saying that such actions are now grounds for removal and I can't
> believe I
> > had to actually make such statements and they are only there
> because Steve
> > proved me wrong.
> > His comments to Matteo put him on a sort of probation with the
> IMCA where
> he
> > would be watched a bit more closely than other members.  Last
> night,
> despite
> > the following statement on the IMCA's website
> >
> > "The purpose of the mailing list is to alert people of frauds and
> if a new
> > person to wishes to join the association that we don't personally
> know
> then
> > we will post to the list asking for any experiences that anyone
> has had.
> If
> > you would like to post about anything meteorite related
> (discoveries,
> > questions, good natured debate) that is welcomed as well. Please,
> DO NOT
> > post any sales or flames to this list. There are plenty of other
> lists for
> > those puposes. Failure to adhere to that rule will result in you
> being
> > removed from it (but not out of the group). "
> >
> > Steve decided to post another one of his sales messages for the
> same old
> > material to that list and as a result got removed from the
> mailing list
> but
> > not the IMCA.
> > Also, despite what Mr. Arnold may think, I do not hate him.  I
> don't
> > particulary care for him because of his comments to Matteo as
> well as some
> > rather rude comments that have been made to other people off list
> that I
> > have been told about but I do not care for him because of those
> actions.
> > I apologize to anyone who may not care about this but I wanted to
> go on
> the
> > record as being the one who called Steve a racist because of his
> racist
> > comments made towards Matteo.  Perhaps Matteo would be willing to
> shed a
> > little light on this issue?
> > Sincerely,
> > Rhett Bourland
> > www.asteroidmodels.com
> > www.asteroidmodels.com/personal
> > www.meteoritecollectors.org
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Walter
> > Branch
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 7:02 PM
> > To: Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] THANKS
> >
> >
> > Steve,
> >
> > The only person who could kick you off the list is Art Jones, the
> list
> > administrator and I am certain that you have done nothing to
> warrant being
> > kicked off the list.  Who has threatened to kick you off the list
> and who
> > has 

Re: [meteorite-list] Cyclic mass extinction?

[Tracy Latimer]

The trouble with many of these theories (Nemesis star, iron sun, etc.) is
that they are on the wacko fringe.  The evidence for them is not
sufficiently established yet that they can be taken as a serious
challenge, which is not to say that they are completely ridiculous.  There
needs to be more research by independent groups, and the data need to be
checked against each other and build more of a case before these theories
will get anywhere near mainstream thought.  Go, scientific method!

Tracy Latimer



__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

RE: [meteorite-list] THANKS

[Greg Redfern]

Rhett,

   Me too. It is a rare commodity in this world. Keep up the great work. One
GOOD thing is that the rules for governing both lists were made stronger by
all of this.

All the best,
Greg Redfern
IMCA #5781
www.meteoritecollectors.org

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Walter
Branch
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 8:40 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] THANKS


Rhett,

Thanks very much for the explanation.  I appreciate your honesty and candor.

-Walter

---
Walter Branch, Ph.D.
Branch Meteorites
322 Stephenson Ave., Suite B
Savannah, GA  31405 USA
www.branchmeteorites.com
- Original Message -
From: "Rhett Bourland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Walter Branch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 8:27 PM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] THANKS


> Actualy Walter, I think that Steve has confused this list with the mailing
> list for the IMCA.  I am the one that has called him a racist because he
> made racist comments towards Matteo Chinellato after Matteo expressed
> discontent with getting Steve's multiple messages for the same material.
If
> making racist comments towards someone isn't reason enough to call someone
a
> racist I'm not sure what is.  He almost got kicked out of the IMCA because
I
> will not tolerate such comments among the INTERNATIONAL Meteorite
Collectors
> Association but since there was nothing against that on the website he
> wasn't kicked out but if you'll check various pages there are now
statements
> saying that such actions are now grounds for removal and I can't believe I
> had to actually make such statements and they are only there because Steve
> proved me wrong.
> His comments to Matteo put him on a sort of probation with the IMCA where
he
> would be watched a bit more closely than other members.  Last night,
despite
> the following statement on the IMCA's website
>
> "The purpose of the mailing list is to alert people of frauds and if a new
> person to wishes to join the association that we don't personally know
then
> we will post to the list asking for any experiences that anyone has had.
If
> you would like to post about anything meteorite related (discoveries,
> questions, good natured debate) that is welcomed as well. Please, DO NOT
> post any sales or flames to this list. There are plenty of other lists for
> those puposes. Failure to adhere to that rule will result in you being
> removed from it (but not out of the group). "
>
> Steve decided to post another one of his sales messages for the same old
> material to that list and as a result got removed from the mailing list
but
> not the IMCA.
> Also, despite what Mr. Arnold may think, I do not hate him.  I don't
> particulary care for him because of his comments to Matteo as well as some
> rather rude comments that have been made to other people off list that I
> have been told about but I do not care for him because of those actions.
> I apologize to anyone who may not care about this but I wanted to go on
the
> record as being the one who called Steve a racist because of his racist
> comments made towards Matteo.  Perhaps Matteo would be willing to shed a
> little light on this issue?
> Sincerely,
> Rhett Bourland
> www.asteroidmodels.com
> www.asteroidmodels.com/personal
> www.meteoritecollectors.org
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Walter
> Branch
> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 7:02 PM
> To: Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] THANKS
>
>
> Steve,
>
> The only person who could kick you off the list is Art Jones, the list
> administrator and I am certain that you have done nothing to warrant being
> kicked off the list.  Who has threatened to kick you off the list and who
> has called you a racist?
>
> -Walter
>
>
> ---
> Walter Branch, Ph.D.
> Branch Meteorites
> 322 Stephenson Ave., Suite B
> Savannah, GA  31405 USA
> www.branchmeteorites.com
> - Original Message -
> From: "Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 7:42 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] THANKS
>
>
> > Hi list. I want to thank alot of you good folks for supporting me. I
never
> > intended to cause such an uproar. I just wanted to know about LA 002.
Now
> > I know. If we can get some great, if not no biggy. I'm just tired of
being
> > threatend of being kicked out of this list. I love this List and all the
> > great guys and gals that make up this great list. I'll slow down the
posts
> > and spamming. I just want to get along with my fellow meteorite friends
> > and can hardly wait to meet you in Tucson. It is hard to swallow when
I'm
> > called a racist! I do not have a racist bone in my body. I know I shou

[meteorite-list] Collection For Sale (AD)

[almitt]

Hello to all,

To those that are interested,

I have been given a collection to sell which contain many interesting
and unique meteorites. These are name brand specimens, most with a history
and not NWA (not that NWA is bad, I have many). For those interested in
this collection, email me off list and I'll send you a list of these items.
I am fist looking to sell them as a whole. I will not entertain offers
on individuals at this time. In the event that these can't be sold as a
whole group then I will take offers on individuals. A sampling of these
are:


Albin,Wyoming  (pal)
Richfield,Ks (LL3.7)
Esquel, Argentina   (pal)
Mt. Egerton, Australia  (aubrite with iron)
Millbillillie, Australia(eucrite)
Reid 013, Australia (brachinite)
Zagami, Nigeria (SNC)
DAG 262  (first low cost Lunar offered)

and many others.

--AL



__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

[meteorite-list] Visa is now on-line

[PolandMET.com]

Wow, my Visa pass this time, test on eBay.com. On eBay.de too !

Thanks to all who help me.

-[ MARCIN CIMALA ]--[ IMCA#3667 ]-
http://www.meteoryt.net   >   Meteorite Information Center
http://www.polandmet.com  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.studiomc.com.pl[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.vistapro.prv.pl   +GSM (607) 535 195
-


__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

[meteorite-list] ***AD*** Visit WWW.METEORITEONLINE.COM ***AD***

[Edward R. Hodges]

Please come visit www.meteoriteonline.com 
Let us know you saw our ad on the list and receive 
20% off your order.  Thank You.- Edward R. Hodges
 
www.meteoriteonline.com
IMCA#4173

Re: [meteorite-list] Cyclic mass extinction?

[almitt]

Hi Edward and all,

Recently it was announced (on this list) that the Sun was made primarily of iron and 
doesn't have the hydrogen that was once thought. This is a new theory based on 
observations by astronomers. It was said that the sun formed from a single supernova 
event and probably was a single star. It will be interesting to see if this new idea 
holds true. If it is correct then perhaps there is no Nemesis (companion star) as we 
have thought, although we may pass near other stars in our galaxy that might
cause this effect every 26 million years. Perhaps there is something else going on 
that we aren't yet aware. Just a thought and comment.

--AL


__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] TV program on ASTEROIDS/ Cont. Drift/ OT

[MrX3010]

That happens a lot with computer recreations I guess no one wants to make a 
texture map for the ancient earth and it's easier to use NASA made (current) 
maps to create earth models in 3D.  Maybe I'll make one one day.

Take care,
Ron

__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

[meteorite-list] TRADE OFFER: DaG400/gao/NWA869/etc

[John Collier]

Hello List Members

I have just a few items left and want to offer these
as a one time trade offer.  I am looking for a stable
iron of any type or form (but MUST be stable, bigger
the better).  Best deal gets the last of them

0.2g DaG 400 dust in vial with documentation from
lunar testing lab-this is unique in provenance!

2 Oriented Gao individuals of about 4g total
weight-these are nice and one has a good overflow lip

Tatahouine (Diogenite, Fell 1931) 
2.84g (3 nice pieces green with dark veins in
Riker)

NWA 869 (L5 chondrite with ???/impact melt/inclusions)
123g (Slab, dark ??? areas surrounding light
breccia) plus another at
110g (Quarter of individual), with breccia and 2cm
??? inclusion)-this is a great piece

Kainsaz (0.2g part slice with crust)

Bilanga (about 0.5g in vial)

thanks
Mike


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] THANKS

[Mark Miconi]

Matteo,
We understand your english, never apologize for it. You hang in there and do
not let one person bring you down.

Mark M.
- Original Message -
From: Matteo Chinellato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Walter Branch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Steve
Arnold, Chicago!!! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 11:49 PM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] THANKS


> Hello all
>
> Sincerely to feel itself to say pizzano is a species
> of offense towards other persons of other nations,
> like the classic "eats spaghetti" to the the Italians.
> it is like if I said to the Americans "eats
> hamburger", task that is not a lot tolerated this?
> Those that it disturbs me of Steve Arnold is its
> continues messages - also others 6 few day ago -
> sincerely I not never put 6 messages in a single day,
> except when there are of the arguments in course, and
> in the sale email I have put few messagges, same thing
> for the auctions, one to the beginning and one to the
> end, but not 6 for day. However Steve is not of gets
> worse, would be very other personages to throw outside
> from the list for their gross behavior with email said
> not in public but in private. I am not an
> administrator of the list, therefore I cannot take
> decisions, but I can put the person that I do not
> tolerate in the Spam box. Sorry for my english, if
> someone wants writes the message in Italian and then
> it translate it.
> Regards
>
> Matteo
>
> --- Rhett Bourland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Perhaps Matteo would
> > be willing to shed a
> > little light on this issue?
> > Sincerely,
> > Rhett Bourland
> > www.asteroidmodels.com
> > www.asteroidmodels.com/personal
> > www.meteoritecollectors.org
>
>
> =
> M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
> Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site:
http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
> International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140
> MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> EBAY.COM:http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
>
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
> http://health.yahoo.com
>
> __
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

RE: [meteorite-list] THANKS

[Charlie Devine]

Hi all,

Matteo, although Steve has posted what amounts to the same sales or
trade pitch more than once in a day, I cannot recall ever seeing 6
similar messages from him in one day.  I think it is possible that
you've received multiple copies of his posts, which really wouldn't be
his fault.  I know where one or two list-members are concerned, I
receive multiple copies when they post.
Charlie


--- Begin Message ---

Hello all

Sincerely to feel itself to say pizzano is a species
of offense towards other persons of other nations,
like the classic "eats spaghetti" to the the Italians.
it is like if I said to the Americans "eats
hamburger", task that is not a lot tolerated this?
Those that it disturbs me of Steve Arnold is its
continues messages - also others 6 few day ago -
sincerely I not never put 6 messages in a single day,
except when there are of the arguments in course, and
in the sale email I have put few messagges, same thing
for the auctions, one to the beginning and one to the
end, but not 6 for day. However Steve is not of gets
worse, would be very other personages to throw outside
from the list for their gross behavior with email said
not in public but in private. I am not an
administrator of the list, therefore I cannot take
decisions, but I can put the person that I do not
tolerate in the Spam box. Sorry for my english, if
someone wants writes the message in Italian and then
it translate it. 
Regards

Matteo

--- Rhett Bourland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Perhaps Matteo would
> be willing to shed a
> little light on this issue?
> Sincerely,
> Rhett Bourland
> www.asteroidmodels.com
> www.asteroidmodels.com/personal
> www.meteoritecollectors.org


=
M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: 
http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140
MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
EBAY.COM:http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

--- End Message ---

[meteorite-list] Earth Impactors and Meteor Crater

[Bernd Pauli HD]

Hello All,

Walter wrote:

> Hello Everyone, I have been asked a question for which I have no
> answer. "how large does an object have to be for it not to vaporize
> completely upon plunging through Earth's atmosphere, i.e., for there
> to be anything sizeable left to cause wide destruction once it hits
> the ground (or water)?" I know that the answer is not an easy one
> and there are numerous variables involved (e.g., type of material
> involved, angle of entry, definition of "wide destruction," etc.)
> but does anyone have a guess (or a SWAG) as to the answer.

I would like to draw your attention to R. Norton's CEM (Cambridge
Encyclopedia of Meteorites), especially pp. 39-45: "Meteoroids to
meteorites: a lesson in survival" and furthermore, pp. 49-50, where
you'll find useful information on the sizes of meteorites and their
chances of survival.

Those among us who are lucky enough to own the Buchwald
trilogy, will find a lot of useful information in chapters 1-4:

Chapter 1: The Minor Bodies of the Solar System
Chapter 2: Physics of the Fall
Chapter 3: On Multiple Falls: End Point Height
and Sound Phenomena
Chapter 4: Meteorite Craters

And I would like to remind you of the famous graphs from Heide
(1964). You also find them in R. Norton's RFS II, pp. 49-53:

- The Ablation Process
- Mass Loss
- Effects of Impact

and again, in CEM, pp. 33-34:

- Meteoroid velocity
- Atmospheric drag

or you can also find pertinent info in the introductory chapter
of McSween's "Meteorites and Their Parent Planets", p. 15 ff.:

=> A Fiery Passage (with the same graph on p. 17, figure 1.9).


Rob Matson wrote:

> wasn't the iron that created Meteor Crater
> estimated to be about 150 meters in diameter?

RODDY D.J. and SHOEMAKER E.M. (1995) Meteor Crater:
Summary of impact conditions (Meteoritics 30-5, 1995, 567):

" ... the meteorite had a velocity in the range of about 13
to 20 km/s, probably in the lower part of this range ...,
the coherent meteorite diameter is estimated to have been
45-50 m with a mass of 300,000 - 400,000 t, i.e., large
enough to experience less than 1% in both mass ablation
and velocity deceleration.


Best wishes,

Bernd

__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] Cyclic mass extinction?

[TMS/TNS/HRC]

I must be more organized than I thought!  Found the book 
smushed between a biography of Alexander the Great and "How to Clean Just 
About Anything".  OK, maybe I'm not that organizedbut I did find 
it!  : )
 
NEMESIS The Death-Star and Other Theories of Mass Extinction 
by Donald Goldsmith, copyright 1985 (I've dated myself!!!) and published by 
Berkley Books, NY.
 
A blurb:
"(The Nemesis theory) relies on an entirely unknown 
object to cause the (cometary) perturbations. Hence, the theory can assign 
the Nemesis star the most effective orbit to produce the observed results, which 
the Nemesis theorists insist is a period close to 26 million years in the 
extinction rate, and close to 28.4 million years in the impact crater record 
Skeptics say the Nemesis Theory requires that the sun be a member of an unusual 
star system, a double-star system in which a low mass companion moves in an 
extremely large orbit around the system's center of mass, which would be close 
to the much more massive star in the system, our sun.  Such a double star 
system would be unlike almost all the stars and star systems we observe around 
us. (snip)
 
Nemesis would have to move in a highly, but not tremendously 
elongated orbit, one in which its distance from the sun falls to a minimum of 
26,000 A.U. and increases to a maximum of 150,000 A.USince the force of 
gravity increases in proportion to one over the square of the distance 
between two objects, Nemesis at its close approaches to the sun would have a far 
stronger effect on comets in the Oort cloud, most of which are from 10,000 to 
40,000 A.U. from the sun, than it would at its average distance (88,000 A.U.) 
let alone at its maximum distances from the sun."
 
It goes on to talk more about the theorists, and the 
theoretical orbit, mass and luminosity of Nemesis.  If anyone would like 
more information on anything regarding this, let me know and I'll look it 
up.
 
Off to bed,
Jeannie
 
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Edward R. Hodges 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 10:58 
  PM
  Subject: [meteorite-list] Cyclic mass 
  extinction?
  
      I happened to catch the last 
  few minutes of a show on PBS about extinction. One of the scientist had 
  compiled data on thousands of extinct species and graphed the times of their 
  extinction. In the timeline he created there seemed to be above normal rates 
  of mass extinction every 26 million years. Another scientist is working on a 
  theory that the sun has a companion star, "Nemesis" that perturbs the orbit of 
  comets in the Oort cloud which impact the Earth roughly every 26 million 
  years. 
  Who can shed some light on this topic? Wouldn't 
  there be clear evidence of meteoritic dust fallout in clay deposits in strata 
  spanning every 26my? 
  Interesting, very interesting. Didn't catch the 
  name of the show, or the names of the scientists.- Edward
   
  Edward R. Hodges
  www.meteoriteonline.com
  IMCA#4173