Re: [meteorite-list] Strewn fields vs Distribution Ellipses
Hello List, Let me throw this out to help clarify the concepts. I have a statistical major but after my accident some procedures are fuzzy to me and today most is done by computers anyway, so bear with me. I'll try too post a field technique for estimating an ellipse another time. The strewn field is the physical distribution of the meteorites on the ground. It's true density, content and numbers are never known because you never know if you have recovered the very last meteorite. It tends to fit within an elliptical form, but when actually plotted can look like a Rorschach figure. It dosen't have a line drawn around it--not yet anyway. The Distribution Ellipse is the geometric/mathmatical representation of the predicted boundary orlimit or edge of the strewn field. The first reason for computing an ellipse is to focus search and recovery efforts. Its secondary use is to estimate angle of fall and altitude of fragmentation. Its tertiary use is to confuse novice meteorite hunters. When all the math and geometry is done you have an ellipse to overlay on your map board. The statistical significance of this a prediction is that 95%(2Standard Deveations-SD) or 99 %(3SD) of all the meteorites in this fall lie within the ellipse. For actual use You duplicate the ellipse overlay on tracing paper and give it to each hunter team and send them off to cover each sector with an agreed upon search pattern( grid walk, etc.), adjusting assigned sectors based on the terrain and best judgement of the search director who may be playing every position if they are first at the scene. It maybe wise to search the centerline first. As previously mentioned you need a minimum 4 points to start. Actually there can be a little cheating as to the number of points if one of the points includes what is clearly a large mass it is treated as two close points--i.e. The large mass is assumed to have fallen ON axis and/or you have additional clues as to the direction of fall. Remember this is a recovery tool which is refined as more finds trun up. That said-- for an ellipse to be of search value you must have good sampling from the whole field which you are trying to estimate and that can be a catch-22 loop. For practical use, a laptop with a spread sheet template or statistical package is the only efficent way to get to the 95% confidence level and add additional locations. The inital plot will likely become skewed as more finds are plotted and the ellipse has to be adjusted and the new information shared with the searchers. It also assumes that you have a simple fall and you do not have multiple concentrations due to multiple fragmentations at altitude. The eccentricity of an ellipse and the length of the two axies give a clue as to the angle of the fall and altitude of fragmentation. A narrow ellipse suggests a lower level fragmentation because the fragments have less time to disperse on the lateral axis before reaching the ground. An elongated ellipse suggests a low angle of fall (shallow) with fragments dropped along a path where the bulk of the mass carried forward momentum longer before reaching the ground. Conversely, a wider ellipse suggests a high altitude fragmentation. A short ellipse suggests a high overhead (steep) angle of fall. Conventional wisdom says that larger masses are found at the far end of the direction of fall. And perhaps this holds true for a simple fall--one that has a single fragmentation episode. However Portales Valley had the larger fragments fall to the near end of the field. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/LPSC99/pdf/1964.pdf An example of a complex distribution can be seen at http://www.saharamet.com/meteorite/data/map/ellipse.html . Note that there are several ellipses on the direction of fall suggesting several fragmentation episodes. This page shows the initial ellipse from the first expeditionhttp://www.saharamet.com/expedition/CO3/part1.html See how the ellipse plot was expanded as new material was found? The actual strewn field recoveries are plotted both inside and outside the ellipses where they were recovered over two or more expeditions. Elton (Thank you, Dr. Jean Dyer,USARI, where ever you are) mike miller wrote: Hello, my question is about strewnfields in general, not how they relate to a dry lake bed. I started as a meteorite hunter and have evolved into a hunter/collector. I think I understand the end of a strewnfield, the elliptical shape is created by most of the lighter material falling away to earth and the larger pieces continuing on a path down the middle of the strewnfield. They create a point that more or less follows the middle of the strewnfield. My first question is what is the reason for the point at the beginning of a strewnfield? The second part of my question is are there other types of strewnfields? More to the point, explosions that occurred closer to the surface and that might be
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Neuschwanstein--First Find Photo and SALE
Dear Gentlemen; I hate to rain on your parade but being from Wyoming where the bucking horse is on our state seal, on a bunch of license plates for a zillion years of our history, well, that is a pile of equine road apples, not a pile of meteorites! Reminds me of the Holbrook dilemma, try taste testing them there carbonaceous varmints! Best laugh of the day, Dave F. mjwy @ ebay, auctions running on all sorts of stuff including a new Wyoming fulgurite. Rob Wesel wrote: http://www.epix.net/~jonee/neu1strewn.jpg I don't think I have ever seen a nicer backdrop for a meteorite find, excellent photo. The meteorites, however, look like a horse was recently on the path. Thanks for sharing Elton, outstanding, I wish they were all that easy to find. Rob Wesel -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 - Original Message - From: E. L. Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 5:27 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Neuschwanstein--First Find Photo and SALE Not many list members were aware, but my son and I were on the scene in April hunting for this meteorite. While the first suspected finds were actually bitumen/ asphalt --(any expert should be able to distinguish asphalt from a real meteorite,Duh!) and the discussion drug on and on on in the list, we quietly sequestered away the main mass and fragments and am offering list members first selection now that the classification has been completed. Virtually every piece is fully crusted. It was a miracle I was able to get it back through customs. We are only reporting this now that the 18 month limitation to resend a contract have fully expired. The farmer who owned the land seemed bemused that we would offer to by it from him but he happily took our euros, but he hadn't heard about the meteorite. I guess he was happy to have it moved out of his way. I felt a little guilty not telling him the whole story. I've embargoed this photo long enough. It is the main mass /in situ/ however the coordinates are being withheld pending another recovery attempt. http://www.epix.net/~jonee/neu1strewn.jpg After the first of the year, we will be offering some of this find starting at $255 per gram and up, depending on cutting losses and shrinkage. Please let me know what size you are interested in and we'll try to cut to order. Elton Lars Pedersen wrote: I have thought about buying it as a summer recidens: http://www.neuschwanstein.com/ ;-)... Merry Christmas Lars Pedersen __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Fw: [meteorite-list] To all.
This makes sense. - Original Message - From: M come Meteorite Meteorites [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 11:09 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] To all. silence... --- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just want to tell everyone who has been trying to contact me that I have been out of the country, and while gone, my wife who was pregnant, lost the child. I have been very busy supporting my wife and not answering the phone or many emails. Some on this list have been trying to contact me, but I have had little time to deal with business. I am getting back into the swing of things, and will be trying to get back with everyone as soon as possible. If you emailed me, and did not get a response yet, please re-email me. We need to stop this garbage, I have been watching this deteriorate and want to say that Matteo seems to be the most hateful person out there. STOP, we are ALL sick of it, there are more important things out there to do. Mike Farmer = M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ __ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Strewn fields vs Distribution Ellipses
Thanks for those accurate information. Frederic - Original Message - From: E. L. Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Strewn fields vs Distribution Ellipses Hello List, Let me throw this out to help clarify the concepts. I have a statistical major but after my accident some procedures are fuzzy to me and today most is done by computers anyway, so bear with me. I'll try too post a field technique for estimating an ellipse another time. The strewn field is the physical distribution of the meteorites on the ground. It's true density, content and numbers are never known because you never know if you have recovered the very last meteorite. It tends to fit within an elliptical form, but when actually plotted can look like a Rorschach figure. It dosen't have a line drawn around it--not yet anyway. The Distribution Ellipse is the geometric/mathmatical representation of the predicted boundary orlimit or edge of the strewn field. The first reason for computing an ellipse is to focus search and recovery efforts. Its secondary use is to estimate angle of fall and altitude of fragmentation. Its tertiary use is to confuse novice meteorite hunters. When all the math and geometry is done you have an ellipse to overlay on your map board. The statistical significance of this a prediction is that 95%(2Standard Deveations-SD) or 99 %(3SD) of all the meteorites in this fall lie within the ellipse. For actual use You duplicate the ellipse overlay on tracing paper and give it to each hunter team and send them off to cover each sector with an agreed upon search pattern( grid walk, etc.), adjusting assigned sectors based on the terrain and best judgement of the search director who may be playing every position if they are first at the scene. It maybe wise to search the centerline first. As previously mentioned you need a minimum 4 points to start. Actually there can be a little cheating as to the number of points if one of the points includes what is clearly a large mass it is treated as two close points--i.e. The large mass is assumed to have fallen ON axis and/or you have additional clues as to the direction of fall. Remember this is a recovery tool which is refined as more finds trun up. That said-- for an ellipse to be of search value you must have good sampling from the whole field which you are trying to estimate and that can be a catch-22 loop. For practical use, a laptop with a spread sheet template or statistical package is the only efficent way to get to the 95% confidence level and add additional locations. The inital plot will likely become skewed as more finds are plotted and the ellipse has to be adjusted and the new information shared with the searchers. It also assumes that you have a simple fall and you do not have multiple concentrations due to multiple fragmentations at altitude. The eccentricity of an ellipse and the length of the two axies give a clue as to the angle of the fall and altitude of fragmentation. A narrow ellipse suggests a lower level fragmentation because the fragments have less time to disperse on the lateral axis before reaching the ground. An elongated ellipse suggests a low angle of fall (shallow) with fragments dropped along a path where the bulk of the mass carried forward momentum longer before reaching the ground. Conversely, a wider ellipse suggests a high altitude fragmentation. A short ellipse suggests a high overhead (steep) angle of fall. Conventional wisdom says that larger masses are found at the far end of the direction of fall. And perhaps this holds true for a simple fall--one that has a single fragmentation episode. However Portales Valley had the larger fragments fall to the near end of the field. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/LPSC99/pdf/1964.pdf An example of a complex distribution can be seen at http://www.saharamet.com/meteorite/data/map/ellipse.html . Note that there are several ellipses on the direction of fall suggesting several fragmentation episodes. This page shows the initial ellipse from the first expeditionhttp://www.saharamet.com/expedition/CO3/part1.html See how the ellipse plot was expanded as new material was found? The actual strewn field recoveries are plotted both inside and outside the ellipses where they were recovered over two or more expeditions. Elton (Thank you, Dr. Jean Dyer,USARI, where ever you are) mike miller wrote: Hello, my question is about strewnfields in general, not how they relate to a dry lake bed. I started as a meteorite hunter and have evolved into a hunter/collector. I think I understand the end of a strewnfield, the elliptical shape is created by most of the lighter material falling away to earth and the larger pieces continuing on a path down the middle of the strewnfield. They create a point that more or less follows the middle of
Re: [meteorite-list] Strewn fields vs Distribution Ellipses
Dear List, I questioned three scientist about the definition of a strewn field and received similar answers. Simply put in meteoritic terms it means a meteoroid that broke in flight into two or more pieces and landed on earth as separate identifiable specimens from the same event. All the best, Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Neuschwanstein--First Find Photo and SALE
Great news, Elton, I must have the largest fully crusted individual of these new swan stones. Please tell me the total price including shipping costs back to Germany. This piece will be nice present for the Geology Professor from Munich, who wasn't able to distinquish between a piece of bitumen and a meteorite. Then he has a piece to study how real meteorites look like. Btw, was is difficult to prevent your meteorites from falling into pieces? Kind regards Dieter - Original Message - From: E. L. Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 2:27 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Neuschwanstein--First Find Photo and SALE Not many list members were aware, but my son and I were on the scene in April hunting for this meteorite. While the first suspected finds were actually bitumen/ asphalt --(any expert should be able to distinguish asphalt from a real meteorite,Duh!) and the discussion drug on and on on in the list, we quietly sequestered away the main mass and fragments and am offering list members first selection now that the classification has been completed. Virtually every piece is fully crusted. It was a miracle I was able to get it back through customs. We are only reporting this now that the 18 month limitation to resend a contract have fully expired. The farmer who owned the land seemed bemused that we would offer to by it from him but he happily took our euros, but he hadn't heard about the meteorite. I guess he was happy to have it moved out of his way. I felt a little guilty not telling him the whole story. I've embargoed this photo long enough. It is the main mass /in situ/ however the coordinates are being withheld pending another recovery attempt. http://www.epix.net/~jonee/neu1strewn.jpg After the first of the year, we will be offering some of this find starting at $255 per gram and up, depending on cutting losses and shrinkage. Please let me know what size you are interested in and we'll try to cut to order. Elton Lars Pedersen wrote: I have thought about buying it as a summer recidens: http://www.neuschwanstein.com/ ;-)... Merry Christmas Lars Pedersen __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] ANIMAL LIKENESS
Hi list.Speaking of animal likeness,I have 2 meteorites that have animal orientations.On my nevada page, I have a 4.2 piece of DEVIL PEAK that looks like a horse, and I have not pictured yet, but soon to be, a 7.2 gram piece of BALCARCE, that looks like a PRAYING BEAR.Just my 2 cents worth with animal things. (no matteo stuff) = Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 Illinois Meteorites website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/ __ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Re: Top ten fictitious met names
So there are five more from me: 6) Whatthehellisthat (one of the largest falls in history, 150.000t, falls 2006 in Los Angeles) 7) Hm (unclassified meteorite, even after studies from six different labs) 8) Chanel No 5 (fifth meteorite to drop on the Chanel factory) 9) Thankyougod (126kg meteorite that dropped on Osama bin Laden) 10) Gotcha (the Vesta sized meteorite that hits the world in 2238) Best regards, Bernhard Rendelius Rems CEO RPGDot Network This outgoing mail has been virus-checked. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 3:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Top ten fictitious met names From Fred Hall to all those that entered my Holiday Contest: I'm happy to announce the prizes for the Top Ten Fictitious Meteorite Names. 1. A US Air-Mail 3 inch by 4.5 inch card from the Smithsonian Institution, Center For Short-Lived Phenomena, 60 Garden St., Cambridge, Massachusetts, 02138, USA, To : American Meteorite Lab., Glenn I. Huss, Director, (Dr. H. H. Nininger was the consultant at this time) that lists the KERN FIREBALL of November 21, 1974, Event Notification Report and four papers of the same size but of regular typing paper listing November EVENTS of the Cincinnati Vinyl Acetate Spill, the South Texas Snout Butterfly High Migration Number, the Isla San Lorenzo Earthquake and the Dunkirk Nitric Acid Spill. Along with the above will be Nininger's paper bound 1972 book Find A Falling Star, new condition. Second Place will receive a Nininger or Huss meteorwrong (as I have no idea which gentleman tossed it on the North side of their Westminster home garage, where hundreds of meteorwrongs were placed) and a paper certifying the date I acquired the rock and that I acquired the meteorwrong legally. There is still time to enter, High Regards To All, Fred Hall / Meteorhall image001.jpg
Re: [meteorite-list] They're baaaaack.....
That is exactly my thought Tracy. Several times in the past, when I have seen some meteorite hunk being auctioned for some ungodly price by an EBAY seller of rare books, artwork, pots and pans, widgets, etc., I have wondered what is his/her expertise/ background in this area and how did they acquire it? What does this specimen mean to him/her (if it is genuine), or is it just another widget- whatever to generate income? When I buy meteorite material, I want the seller to know and love what he/she sells- Grant Elliott - Original Message - From: tracy latimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 10:32 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] They're back. How did someone who normally sells car stereo equipment become the authorized dealer for a hunk o' Zagami? And overpriced at that... even for a Bessey Speck ;-) Tracy Latimer _ Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work - and yourself. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Catching the Wild Child -- How Stardust Stays on Target
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/features/stardust-121603.cfm Spotlight Feature Catching the Wild Child -- How Stardust Stays on Target JPL Media Contact: Charli Schuler (818) 393-5467 December 16, 2003 Imagine driving through heavy fog to a place you've never been, guided only by a faint taillight in the distance. The challenge is similar to one NASA will take in January 2004 by flying its Stardust mission through the halo of dust that surrounds the nucleus of a comet. With Mars and other planets, we know relatively well where the planets are, said Dr. Shyam Bhaskaran, a Stardust navigation specialist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. This is not the case with comets, which are not easily observed because they are small objects with gas jets. It is much harder to predict their orbits, which is why we have a little extra help from a camera onboard the spacecraft. One of three methods the Stardust navigation team is using to find their way, optical navigation involves placing a 200mm focal length camera onboard the spacecraft as it flies to its target, a comet called Wild 2 (pronounced Vilt). The camera photographs the view from the spacecraft about twice a week until 10 days before its encounter with the comet. It then photographs the view three times daily until 72 hours before encounter, when it begins taking one image per hour. These images continuously help engineers on the ground figure out where the spacecraft is in relation to the comet. Based on those images and other data, engineers can plan maneuvers accordingly and document the mission. This method is especially necessary since the comet flew behind the sun as viewed from Earth in May 2003, thus making Earth-based observations impossible. Trying to view the comet from Earth at this point would be almost like trying to find a firefly behind a fire, Bhaskaran said. The Wild 2 comet is not expected to emerge until several weeks before its encounter with the spacecraft. Its fiery path aside, the comet is the mission's best available target. The decision to fly by this comet was based on a number of factors including fuel constraints and mission launch date, as well as a database of information established by ground-based astronomers. Along with optical navigation, Stardust engineers employ standard Doppler and range tracking techniques during the mission's cruise phase. The techniques, used by all interplanetary missions, involve relaying radio signals from the spacecraft to Earth via the Deep Space Network's three worldwide tracking stations in Australia, Spain and California. These signals reveal details about the spacecraft's orbital path when compared with a mathematical model of the solar system, and allow engineers to pinpoint the spacecraft's position relative to Earth. Engineers are also able to adjust the path of the spacecraft based on this information. As of December 15, the spacecraft will be about 9.5 million kilometers (6 million miles) from the comet, and closing in at a rate of about 530,000 kilometers (330,000 miles) every day. The comet was first spotted by the spacecraft's camera on November 17, and more images have been coming in every few days, allowing the navigators to more accurately determine where the spacecraft is with respect to the comet. Comets, however, are unpredictable objects. We don't anticipate any surprises, but we have to be prepared, and that's what makes this job anything but routine, Bhaskaran said. With a little luck and a lot of skill, we should be able to meet the mission's goal of flying by Wild 2 at a distance of 300 kilometers (186 miles). Stardust's cometary and interstellar dust samples will help provide answers to fundamental questions about the origins of the solar system. More information on the Stardust mission is available at http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] They're baaaaack.....
roger that! don't you just wish you could see a pic of that dude? probably drinks coke by the cubic meter. From: "Claudia Carroll" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] They're back. Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:14:52 -0600 wow 61K feedback and running 91 pages of auctions.Someone needs a social life. James [Original Message] From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 12/16/2003 5:09:18 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] They're back. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2211392065category=3239 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Make your home warm and cozy this winter with tips from MSN House & Home. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] kudos-Why sell if it off in pieces?
Hello List AND Art!!, The M-List Archives has lost all of its posts prior to today (AGAIN, Art) and since I'm not subscribed and only read the messages from Archives, I now have no idea if this thread has had any recent posts. Also, I just found a typo in my current NV Meteorite PUZZLE auction - it's not 380 grams !? That was the weight of the previously auctioned puzzle meteorite. This latest one is much smaller (and more affordable;). The title should have read 29.5 grams!! Hopefully, this lil' pocket puzzle won't get cut up. If you missed it before, see it here: http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItemsuserid=bolide*chaser Bob V. http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/bolide*chaser/ Original Message - [meteorite-list] kudos-Why sell if it off in pieces? E. L. Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:40:01 -0500 I guess it is yours to do with as you wish--- but it is a terrible shame to sell it off in pieces when it's most wonderful feature is the way it goes back together! For classification I could perhaps see sending a corner piece-- but to sell off a miracle meteorite in pieces seems cruel and unusual punishment for a rare piece. (sigh) Elton Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! wrote: Hello list.I want to give kudos and thanks to the Meteorite Recovery Team from California.That includes Mr.Bob Verish.I recently won an auction from him for a puzzle NEVADA meteorite which was found by a member of that great team.It is 380 grams of a complete stone in 14 pieces. For a collecter of NEVADA meteorites, to me this is absolutly unbelieveable.The main mass is 203 grams alone.But for me the good news is I am going to get it classified.I am going to send a piece off to get classified.And I was told that I might have a partial classification before tucson so I will be able to let you in on the results.Also next weekend I am going to up 2 pieces up for auction on ebay and see how the do.The rest will stay in my collection.This is great news for me.Again thaks to the meteorite recovery team for finding this beauty. steve arnold, chicago __ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Christmas Day Mars Landing (Beagle 2)
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2003/17dec_beagle2.htm Christmas Day Mars Landing NASA Science News December 17, 2003 In search of alien life, the European Space Agency's Beagle 2 probe will parachute to the surface of Mars on Dec. 25th. December 17, 2003: It's wintertime in the northern hemisphere of Mars, and a flying saucer is about to land. Back on Earth where it comes from, the craft is known as the Beagle 2, sent to Mars by the European Space Agency in search of life. More accurately, the Beagle 2 will be looking for chemical traces of life--telltale signs that life once existed, or perhaps, exists right now on the red planet. Touchdown is scheduled for Christmas Day 2003. The Beagle 2 will precede two NASA rovers, Spirit and Opportunity, slated to land in January. Named after the ship that carried Charles Darwin, the Beagle 2 is a self-contained laboratory shaped like a saucer, or a pocket watch, about three feet in diameter. Although it carries many powerful scientific tools, it weighs a mere 70 pounds. Being so light and compact, the Beagle 2 was able to hitch a ride to Mars onboard the ESA's Mars Express spacecraft launched last June. While Mars Express, an orbiter, surveys the planet from a few hundred miles up, the Beagle 2 will be able to stick its devices right into Mars, sampling rocks and soil on the surface and below. NASA's Everett Gibson, the interdisciplinary scientist for the Mars Express/Beagle 2 mission, explains: We have two [ways] to get samples: a rock abrasion tool, and a burrowing mole. Both are embedded in the Beagle's robotic arm. The rock abrasion tool goes right up against a rock, removes its weathered surface, and can continue to go in and take out a little core--about 20 to 100 milligrams of sample, he says. The ability to remove the surface of a rock is important, as scientists learned when NASA's Sojourner rover scrutinized Mars rocks in 1997. They all looked much the same because their surfaces had been weathered by dusty winds and solar radiation. Beagle 2 will be able to sample the variety that lies within. The other tool, the mole, is able to reach as far as two meters from the Beagle 2 and drill down about one and a half meters, gathering samples in its hollow mouth. Just like the core samples collected from inside rocks, Everett explains, soil found underground will have been shielded from, and less altered by, solar ultraviolet radiation. In these more protected samples, indications of life may be more likely to exist. As samples are collected, they'll be brought back into the Beagle and heated in one of the lab's ovens. Gases released by this process will be analyzed by a mass spectrometer. The Beagle will check for biological signatures by, in part, looking carefully at the types of carbon that it finds. Basically, carbon comes in both a lighter variety -- carbon-12 -- and a heavier variety -- carbon-13. On Earth, things that are alive tend to prefer the lighter kind. They use more carbon-12 in their metabolism. If the spectrometer identifies a sample containing more carbon-12 than would be expected in an inorganic sample of soil, that might be a sign that life had once dwelled there. The spectrometer will also check the atmosphere for traces of methane. This gas can be produced by living creatures. On Earth it comes from sources such as termites, cows, and swamps; on Mars it might come from extreme-loving microbes. Methane on Mars should be destroyed quickly, probably within a matter of months, by the planet's strong ultraviolet radiation. This means that if Beagle 2 detects any methane, something must have created it very recently. If the Beagle 2 can find methane, says Gibson, it will go a long way to answering that key question: Are biological processes operating on Mars? On December 19, the Mars Express orbiter will eject the Beagle. From then on, the little laboratory is on its own. On Christmas Day it will hit the Martian atmosphere at a speed of about 12 thousand miles per hour. The resistance of the atmosphere will begin to slow it down, as a shield protects it from the heat of descent. A series of parachutes will emerge, each slowing the Beagle even more. At 200 meters above the surface, three gas-filled airbags will inflate to cushion its landing. The Beagle is expected to touch down within the Isidis Planitia Basin. The landing site is at a low enough elevation to allow Mars' thin atmosphere enough time to slow the Beagle down. There are also some indications that Isidis Planitia contains ice, making it a promising place to look for signs of life. Once the Beagle lands, it will open up, like a pocket watch. Four solar panels will emerge, and begin charging its batteries. It will send a signal saying that it's arrived. When the Beagle lands, says Gibson, we won't know immediately, because we have to wait till Odyssey passes over. Odyssey is a NASA
Re: [meteorite-list] Dry Lake Stewnfields??
Hi List, I would like know why certain areas hold more meteorites and , could these areas be Super Accumulation Areas? For example Gold Basin has produced 3000 + meteorites. Four different types, three ordinary chondrites and one mesosiderite. There has been other strewnfields with different types of meteorite all found in the same location. Thanks Sonny
[meteorite-list] Gold Basin multiple meteorite finds
Sonny asked, I would like know why certain areas hold more meteorites and , could these areas be Super Accumulation Areas? For example Gold Basin has produced 3000 + meteorites. Four different types, three ordinary chondrites and one mesosiderite. If Gold Basin has trulyproduced only four different meteorite types (isn't it more than that?), then I suppose I would call that unusual -- unusually low. With the army of people that have been working that area for so long, I would expect a greater number of serendipitous finds unpaired to Gold Basin. What's the approximate area that we're talking about, in square kilometers? On a good-quality, old surface, the area in km^2 is about how many unpaired meteorites you should expect to find. There has been other strewnfields with different types of meteorite all found in the same location. This is a natural consequence of focused searching. Meteorites are everywhere, but people don't hunt just anywhere -- most hours are spent where other meteorites have been found. Indeed, once you've found one, that sort of tells you that the region is "hospitable" to meteorites, improving the odds that others will be found. Cheers, Rob
Re: [meteorite-list] Dry Lake Stewnfields??
Mark's post reminded me that I never properly answered Tom's original Gold Basin question. In D. Kring et al (2001) Gold Basin Meteorite Strewn Field... this is the only mention of post-fall transportation in the entire paper: The locations of the samples, particularly those on bedrock, indicate they have not been significantly transported after impact. Again, not my words. And I'm not going to comment. But there is an image in this article that shows a Gold Basin stony locked into a desert pavement and a description that speaks of this stony having a coating of desert varnish. Given the long duration of time required to develop this kind of patina on an immobilized sediment, this speaks to me more of minimal transportation after impact. And then there's this desert-varnished GB find in my collection that was found buried 6inches down and under a cobble! No there's a suspect waypoint, and it has a very low weighting on my GB strewn field map (along with any find from a steeply sloping surface). ;-) Bob V. --- Mark Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rob, Bob and Listers, I embrace Bob's descriptive term for scattered, but paired, drylake finds as accumulation zones. I believe that is the term used to describe the areas on the Antarctic ice sheet where meteorites by the armloads seem to be gathered. The fact of the matter is, the meteorites, whether landing here or in Antarctica, join a world where the forces of fluid dynamics act incessantly to move them from thier original location. Does it mean find data is useless for mapping weight distributions of these zones . . . yes and no (maybe). If the fall is young enough then clearly there has been little time to interfere with the distribution, and it's probably trusty info; there are other cases like Gold Basin where there not only wasn't any observable weight distribution in the ~3000 finds recorded but also 3-4 other unrelated, independent finds within the strewnfield! How does THAT happen? For my money, for whatever reason, Gold Basin is a super-accumulation zone for the desert in that region. Anyway, regardless of whether sf data can be trusted, the Garmin GPS gets queried and recorded everytime I collect a candidate in the field; followed by an expanding circle search out to at least a couple of hundred yards for pairings. Happy holidays folks . . . Mark Jackson Chaosity Meteoritics [EMAIL PROTECTED] - __ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Gold Basin multiple meteorite finds
Hello Everyone, Another interesting note on multiple meteorite find area's is the habit for the multiple finds to be L chondrites. Such as in Gold Basin and the Atacama desert, each place has been hunted very well and for a period ofseveral years. A rash, and likely untrue, thought might be that H chondrites, weather into L's. I don't so much think that myselfbut gives one something to think about at that next stoplight. Mark Bostick www.meteoritearticles.com
[meteorite-list] Gold Basin multiple meteorite finds
Hi Mark and List, Another interesting note on multiple meteorite find area's is the habit for the multiple finds to be L chondrites. Such as in Gold Basin and the Atacama desert, each place has been hunted very well and for a period ofseveral years. Probably a combination of factors working here: the use of metal detectors as the primary detection means coupled with the larger average sizeof L-chondrites vs. H-chondrites. (Plot of 1+ Antarctic ordinary chondrites' mass histogram sent to Mark). If you look at the statistics for Lucerne Valley, Harper, Superior Valley, Silver and Cuddeback, you'll see that H's and L's are about evenly distributed, with H's slightly favored. --Rob
[meteorite-list] NP Article, 09-1983 Maybe We're Not Alone
Paper: Lethbridge Herald City: Lethbridge, Alberta Date: Saturday, September 03, 1983 Page: C3 Maybe we're not alone WASHINGTON (AP) - The discovery that a meteorite fell to Earth with five chemicals found in the genes of all living creatures improves the chances that life exists in other part of the universe, a researcher says. The findings "suggest that life elsewhere in the universe is more likely, and they provide a clearer understanding of the origins of life on Earth," Dr. Cyril Ponnamperuma, a University of Maryland researcher said Monday. "We found only the precursors of life," he added. "We have not found life there (in the meteorite)." Chemicals called bases, which were found in the Murchison meteorite that was recovered in Australia in 1969, are the basic components of deoxyribonucleic acid, or DNA, and ribonucleic acid, or RNA, the molecules that make up genetic material. Their existence in the meteorite has been confirmed by Dr. Stanley Miller of the University of California at San Diego and researches at the University of Missouri at Columbia, Ponnamperuma said.(Mark note: After a brief delay, life has settled once again and I will start trying to find more time for newspaper research.)Please visit, www.MeteoriteArticles.com, a free on-line archive of meteor and meteorite articles.
[meteorite-list] classification, how to?
Hello List, I want to get a meteorite classified, not being rich, how is the best way to do this? Thanks, Tom Peregrineflier The proudest member of the IMCA # 6168 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NP Article, 07-1983 Wetherfield Meteorites on Display
Newspaper: The Capital City: Annapolis, Maryland Date: Wednesday, July 27, 1983 Page: 24 Wetherfield meteorites at Smithsonian Two meteorites that crashed through the roofs of houses in Wethersfield, Conn., - a "celestial coincidence" that Smithsonian scientists say in almost incomprehensible - are on public display for the first time at the Smithsonian's National Museum of Natural History. The exhibit in the museum's ground floor Constitution Avenue foyer will continue through Oct. 15 The first of these two intruders from outers pace, a 3/4-pound stone, struck the home of Mr. and Mrs. Paul Cassarino between 2 and 6 a.m. April 8, 971. The Cassarinos were sleeping and didn't hear it. They awoke to find the meteorite embedded in their ceiling. Meteorites are very rare - only five to 10 are recovered annually throughout the world - and only once in recorded history had two meteorites been known to land in the same town: Honolulu, in 1825 and 1949. So it was nothing short of astonishing to scientists when a second meteorite fell 11 years later in Wethersfield less than two miles way on Nov. 8, 1982. Wanda and Robert Donahue were at home watching "M.A.S.H." on television when the 6-pound stone struck at about 9:15 a.m. Scientists estimate that it was probably traveling about 300 mph when it hit. It came through the Donahue's roof and ceiling, richocheted off the floor and ceiling, overturned a chair, dented a wall and finally came to rest under a table. The Donahues, neither of whom was injured, rushed into their living room and spotted a hole in the ceiling but not the cause of trouble. The "smoke" and plaster dust made them suspect a fire and they calledthe police and the fire department. It was a fireman who discovered the meteorite, about 10 minutes later. News of Wethersfield 1983 traveled fast. They Donahues were deluged with phone calls from journalists. Scientists from several institutions converged on Wethersfield, eager to take advantage of the opportunity to examine a newly fallen meteorite. Thanks to the cooperation of the Donahues, Wethersfield 1923 was one of the "freshest" meteorites ever studied. Dr. Roy Clarke, Smithsonian curator of meteorites, flew to Connecticut the day after the meteorite landed and arranged to have it send to the Battelle Laboratories in Richland, Wash. Meteorites A to Z gives the following information on these meteorites: Wethersfield (1971), L6, Hartford Co., CT USA, 1971 Apr. 8, 0430 hrs, 1 stone, 350 grams Wethersfield (1982), L6, Hartford Co., CT USA, 1982 Nov. 8, 2114 hrs, 1 stone, 2756 grams The second edition of Meteorites A to Z by Anne Black and Mike/Bill Jenson will be ready for sale soon.) Please visit, www.MeteoriteArticles.com, a free on-line archive of meteor and meteorite articles.
[meteorite-list] UNSUBSCRIBE. PLEASE
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