Re: [meteorite-list] BCC and Sales Ratios
Dear Bernd List, I think this is all about the difference between people who NEED to be THE BEST in what they did, and people who simply WANT to ENJOY. This is actually a matter of ambition and where one wants to place it. I do not mean that there is no ambition in trying to enjoy (this is actually my own ambition). The fact is that sometimes, when the need to be the best is too strong, it can make people getting blind to the really important things that rule our lives that you mentioned in your post, Bernd. I guess also that when dealing meteorites becomes a real business on which one must rely on to make a living, defending this business is a priority... Anyway, as you wrote Bernd, we must assume that we are all meteorite lovers and forget those *wars* that happen from time to time... Just my understanding, not judging anybody! Kind meteoritical regards, Frederic Beroud www.meteoriteshow.com IMCA #2491 - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 10:33 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] BCC and Sales Ratios Please, stop that silly talk about BCC (blind carbon copy ?) and sales ratios, what should, what will it lead to? More animosities, more hate, more hate mails, ... less fun, less potential new collectors (because they will be p... off) by such a lot of childish pseudo-argumentation. For heaven's sake, when I came to school this morning, I had to cope with the sad news that one of my teacher collegues is gone for good ... 61 years only. We talked about retiring a few weeks ago. He was so happy he would retire in about two years (me in about 3 or four years) and then be able to enjoy the few days he would still be allowed to be around. I have bought great meteorites from both parties, there have been great deals and bargains, both parties involved in this vain struggle have become gargantuan meteorite sellers with great items, with a dedicated love for meteorites, ... and they are sellers! Think about it and enjoy what life still has to give you because we should know (and remember) our days are counted ... whether we like it or not ... Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] New WebSite Meteorite Sale
Only for addvise my sale site now work under http://www.mcomemeteorite.it Matteo _ Ricerche online più semplici e veloci con MSN Toolbar! http://toolbar.msn.it/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice, MAIN MASS 1, 968g
Hi List, I was disturbed to find a bunch of malarkey in the way of images produced by Stan. I believe Marcin has a legitimate claim but to watch other dealers try to take advantage is ridiculous. Marcin has seen a huge amount of NWA 869 (Not Official) and owns a piece of NWA 904. He reported earlier yesterday that it is different. Stan is full of hot air. He is just sore because a dealer manufactured classification of NWA 1839 was posted to the List and both NAU and UW are aware of it. That's correct, the latest information posted to the List was not even a working copy, just something put together to compete against NWA 3133 by an amateur, it crossed way over the line. NWA 1839 was reported as weighing about 122 grams to the NomCom and as an L7 yet over 500 grams has been claimed to the List by Stan and at first it he claimed it was paired with NWA 011, explain this. This is all in the archives so check it out yourself. I have no idea why an unofficial stone is being compared to NWA 904. This argument was settled two years ago, NWA 904 is different from NW 787 which is assumed paired to NWA 869. I refuse to recognize NWA 869 because it has never been classified. Do the right thing and send a type specimen in. If somebody wants to provide me with 20 grams of what everybody agrees is NWA 869 I will send it in and have it studied properly, until then it is an unclassified stone. Truthfully Adam - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice,MAIN MASS 1, 968g Sorta looks like NWA869 to me. far from this Dean. Maybe this is not that big different from NWA869 as my NWA1906 from Mike NWA1906 :-D but this is for sure not the same meteorite. http://img106.exs.cx/img106/764/869and904.jpg one of the slices in that photo is a piece of 904 from the hupes, the other is a piece of 869 from dean. both great hunks of meteorite... wanna guess what one is what? __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice, MAIN MASS 1, 968g
The one on the left is NWA 904 and right is NWA 869! Or was that the other way around!?!?! ;-) This was hard to decide which one is 869 but photo was small :). Anyway I'm not saying that 904 is different from 969 becouse I have only one slice. But Im sure that this specimen I have is different from any other NWA869 I cut and polish. Look at crust, flat complete surface. How many NWA869 have that surface ? -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of: Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice, MAIN MASS 1, 968g
I think the problem arises from the fact that sellers have sold a lot of stuff under NWA 869. I have a couple of so called NWA 869s, and it's hard to believe they all come from the same fall. However, I can say that NWA 904, at least the slice I got from the Hupes, does NOT look like NWA 869 in any way, nor does the one I got from Steve The Latefallsalesman Arnold. The matrix is different. Most of my NWA 869 look rather greyish on the inside, the NWA 904 has a brown/orange hue. Brecciation is somewhat different as well. _ Best regards, Bernhard Rendelius Rems CEO RPGDot Network This outgoing mail has been virus-checked. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Meteoryt.net Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 12:40 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice,MAIN MASS 1, 968g The one on the left is NWA 904 and right is NWA 869! Or was that the other way around!?!?! ;-) This was hard to decide which one is 869 but photo was small :). Anyway I'm not saying that 904 is different from 969 becouse I have only one slice. But Im sure that this specimen I have is different from any other NWA869 I cut and polish. Look at crust, flat complete surface. How many NWA869 have that surface ? -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of: Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Soggy-Bottom Boys
Dear List, Soggy-Bottom Boys; I am truly moved by your candor! Bernd made the point, and you have successfully satirized the foolishness of a couple very non-important issues. I offer a strong heartfelt BRAVO to Bernd, Dave, the two Johns, and would like to be on the dapper dan list and share gopher with you all's! ...or at least engage the intellectual stimulating conversationif any arises there delbert! Mine are not any better than u'ns, my river rocks that is, Green River has soggy bottoms and wonderfully tasty gophers too, Dave F. JKGwilliam wrote: I think this gets my vote for Post of the Week! Thanks to Dave for offering to share his Soggy Bottom-Boggy-Bottom meteorites with us. I have personally seen these wonderful stones and can attest to their pedigree...they are real Soggy-Boggy-Bottoms. Uh.speaking of that EX of yours Dave.uhdo you have a phone number for her;-) JKG At 10:14 PM 11/23/2004, DNAndrews wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When you think one or more of our list members is a a little bit off or just plain whacky, then think again when one compares such folks to the seller, buyer and believers of this crap. I'm usually just a lurker, but all this Soggy-Boggy-Bottom Meteorite stuff has me in an uproar. Maybe they want to just share a gopher-on-a-stick or sing into a can . It just makes me just want to know why exactly they are here on this list cramming their crapola down our throat. Stellar grainswhat rock doesn't have those. For any Soggy-Bottom Meteorites...just come to my house. I have an entire backyard full of those critters and would very much like to get rid of them. Come on and haul them off at NO charge. My EX expected me to landscape the backyard with all these Martian and Lunar wonders, but she left and...oh wellnever got done. Now they are taking up room for OUR garden and I'll give them all away for free No million-dollars-per-gramabsolutely free. Get them out of my yard and they are yours for FREE No offer refused... Can we get back on track to METEORITES instead of who has the best eBay rating and talking about RIVER rocks!?!?!?!?!?! That's exactly what the Soggy-Bottom-Boys are sellingcommon river rocks. For me and Bernd Dave (Might as well sue me too shisters ) __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture Of The Day - November 24, 2004
ROCKS FROM SPACE PICTURE OF THE DAY: http://www.geocities.com/spacerocksinc/Nov_24.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice, MAIN MASS 1, 968g
Ok, I am sick of this. Want some meteorite trade secrets and the inside scoup on some scams? If so dont fall asleap while reading my manuscript here. Adam keeps saying NWA869 is unofficial which is correct but its been classified. Alan rubin classified it twice as L4 and L5, matteo got an 3.8-6 and another french dealer got 3.8. Farmer has it classified. Obviously Paired NWA904 has been classified. There is no meteorite that is like NWA869. Its a very brecciated meteorite. Look at this one for example. http://www.meteoriteshop.com/ebay/nwa869two.jpg There is another university actually interested in it and is doing a big research project on many kilos. It is easy to recogonize NWA869 (Or whatever you want to call it - NWA869 has taken on the most commonly accepted name I guess because I have been so vocal with promoting hundreds of kilos of it). For the record it will not appear in the bulletin this year (So yes, will remain unofficial for another year so the stupid unofficial arguement can continue to be made) because it is such a varied meteorite that has created so much discussion that Michael Zolonsky asked to get a sample to look at himself. I plan on sending him a good brecciated sample showing 3 different meteorites but I havent been able to contact him for a couple weeks. Scientiest sare very busy nowadays with institutions so underfunded. One can take the fact that scientists dont have time to go through the expensive motions to pair chondrites and then say It is wrong to make pairing judgements knowing full well that it wont get done but that dont disprove the fact that they are the same meteorite. NWA869 will most likely be the biggest strewnfield from the desert and one of the largest chondrite strewnfields in the world. It great that the biggest one had to be such a nice and interesting and varied meteorite. You can wish them different because that would make them worth more but fact is if you paid $1 a gram for one of the paired stones that several dealers are selling as low TKW you have been ripped off - and since every dealer can recogonize NWA869 the dealer knew that he ripped you off. Plain and simple. Wishing wont make it something else anymore than wishing wont make BCCs fake mnoon rock real. And using the lame arguement that no scientists has scientifically paired every single one of 75,000 stones just dont wash. We all know they are the same. I will go further because I am sick of this. What is happening with NWA869 and NWA1109 is nothing short of fraud. And there are 3 or 4 dealers involved. NWA869 is a great meteorite and one can easily take one of the more brecciated ones (With the black inclusions or melt which makes it more interesting) and call it something else. At least one dealer is selling it as his own find. Take a particularly nice one and get it classified and sell it for $1 a gram and argue like the fake moon rock people that they are real. Threaten lawsuits if necessary to scare people. NWA1109 is more interesting. We were all once buying it for upwards of $20 a gram in morocco once and everybody thought it was an howardite. (Although I have a kilo piece now that I would part with foor $7500) The diogenite levels has to be 10% to make it a howardite. Every dealer knows this so whats happening with 3 or 4 dealers (Including some in europe so I am not singling one dealer out here - or even two dealers) is to find a piece with more than 10% diogenite material and get that classified and then the whole stone is a howardite worth $75 a gram instead of $15. You only need a half square inch of material with 10% diopgenite material to get the entire stone officially in the met bulletin as a howardite. NWA1109 is a great meteorite and a whole host of dealers are taking obviously paired stones and finding a piece with 10% diogenite material and then getting the howardite classification. Paired NWA1644 (Classified by MIT as a polymict eucrite because the sample that I gave them only had 6% diogenite material) had a customer send his piece to a university in germany (He wanted official verification that I was selling a real meteorite as he was very sceptical that I was selling a meteorite) and came back howardite because that sample that he gav eto the university had the 10% requirement. So NWA1644 has been properly classified as both but it appears in teh bulletin as a eucrite. There are lots of inclusions and weird things in NWA1109 and you could also probably get really exotic classifications if one tried to get really fancy with inclusions - but I dont see large numbers of dealers doing that and the scam is generally to get howardite classifications. NWA1109 could well be an howardite. It is borderline but officially a eucrite. Remember something important here. The nomads work in groups and when the try and sell to people like me, farmer and everybody else they basically usually pull a scam. They split up the fall and offer me 50 grams, farmer 50 grams, the hupes 50
Re: [meteorite-list] The Soggy-Bottom Boys
Mr Freeman, I certainly hope you aren't insinuating that your gophers are better tasting than those here in the REAL Soggy Boggy Bottom Land. Our fire roasted gophers have been rated number one and we have the statistics to prove it. Just ask all of our returning customers. We're not trying to make a profit on our BBQd rodents, we only want to recover our costs from doing research about preserving and documenting gopher villages. Recently, we found out that GV244 (Gopher Village 244) and GV 251 are probably one and the same. However, the truth may never be told because some gopher hunter don't report the real locations of their finds. Soggy-Boggy-Bottom Boy#2 PS...our soggy bottoms are also rated #1 At 07:55 AM 11/24/2004, David Freeman wrote: Dear List, Soggy-Bottom Boys; I am truly moved by your candor! Bernd made the point, and you have successfully satirized the foolishness of a couple very non-important issues. I offer a strong heartfelt BRAVO to Bernd, Dave, the two Johns, and would like to be on the dapper dan list and share gopher with you all's! ...or at least engage the intellectual stimulating conversationif any arises there delbert! Mine are not any better than u'ns, my river rocks that is, Green River has soggy bottoms and wonderfully tasty gophers too, Dave F. JKGwilliam wrote: I think this gets my vote for Post of the Week! Thanks to Dave for offering to share his Soggy Bottom-Boggy-Bottom meteorites with us. I have personally seen these wonderful stones and can attest to their pedigree...they are real Soggy-Boggy-Bottoms. Uh.speaking of that EX of yours Dave.uhdo you have a phone number for her;-) JKG At 10:14 PM 11/23/2004, DNAndrews wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When you think one or more of our list members is a a little bit off or just plain whacky, then think again when one compares such folks to the seller, buyer and believers of this crap. I'm usually just a lurker, but all this Soggy-Boggy-Bottom Meteorite stuff has me in an uproar. Maybe they want to just share a gopher-on-a-stick or sing into a can . It just makes me just want to know why exactly they are here on this list cramming their crapola down our throat. Stellar grainswhat rock doesn't have those. For any Soggy-Bottom Meteorites...just come to my house. I have an entire backyard full of those critters and would very much like to get rid of them. Come on and haul them off at NO charge. My EX expected me to landscape the backyard with all these Martian and Lunar wonders, but she left and...oh wellnever got done. Now they are taking up room for OUR garden and I'll give them all away for free No million-dollars-per-gramabsolutely free. Get them out of my yard and they are yours for FREE No offer refused... Can we get back on track to METEORITES instead of who has the best eBay rating and talking about RIVER rocks!?!?!?!?!?! That's exactly what the Soggy-Bottom-Boys are sellingcommon river rocks. For me and Bernd Dave (Might as well sue me too shisters ) __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice, MAIN MASS 1, 968g
Dean, most of us know the practices of the dealers and the nomads, I think. There is no way to correct the problem, though. Those collecting NWAs will have to live with it. On the other hand, we get nice material for a low price. _ Best regards, Bernhard Rendelius Rems CEO RPGDot Network This outgoing mail has been virus-checked. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice, MAIN MASS 1, 968g
--- Bernhard \Rendelius\ Rems [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dean, most of us know the practices of the dealers and the nomads, I think. There is no way to correct the problem, though. Those collecting NWAs will have to live with it. On the other hand, we get nice material for a low price. I agree with you on that one. I believe that we are getting stuff at a price below what a normal market condition would be. And the deliberate faking and clouding of TKW is making it better for collectors - especially on the rare stuff. For example, Lets say that some rare meteorite genuinely only has 90 grams TKW and should be worth $200 a gram. I am taking this potential Faking TKW discount into effect in what I am willing to pay and then I sell it at a markup from what I bought it at meaning that the collector gets a rare meteorite at a fraction of what it should sell for. Cheers DEAN __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] SaharaMet Expedition on meteorite impact craters
A new page on our desert trips: - Mauritanian Sahara expedition - Temimichat and Tenoumer impact craters - panoramic views of the craters (4000x650 pixels) - impactites and shocked granitic rocks - story of the journey Go to: http://www.saharamet.com/expedition/2003/crater.html Richard Roland Pelisson SaharaMet Sahara expeditions and great meteorite discoveries http://www.saharamet.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] SaharaMet Expedition on meteorite impact craters
Wonderful website, too bad it comes from guys who say that I deal with Al Queda! that's right, the Pellisons have a court case in France saying that all people who go to Morocco deal with terrorists. I buy my meteorites, so the locals benifit, they hunt (fine too) but they seem to argue that the locals benefit more from that. I guess that .25 cent per liter gas fuels the Libyan economy. These guys are whacked out. Michael Farmer - Original Message - From: SaharaMet [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 9:33 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] SaharaMet Expedition on meteorite impact craters A new page on our desert trips: - Mauritanian Sahara expedition - Temimichat and Tenoumer impact craters - panoramic views of the craters (4000x650 pixels) - impactites and shocked granitic rocks - story of the journey Go to: http://www.saharamet.com/expedition/2003/crater.html Richard Roland Pelisson SaharaMet Sahara expeditions and great meteorite discoveries http://www.saharamet.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Soggy-Bottom Boys
Hi List Hope you guys realize that in the deep south, theres another gopher and hit taint a rodent. Might want to take into account the southern vernacular so folks don't misunderstand and go after youse for ettin a critter thats on that thar fedral list. Kentucki good ol'boy On November 24, 5:57 pm JKGwilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr Freeman, I certainly hope you aren't insinuating that your gophers are better tasting than those here in the REAL Soggy Boggy Bottom Land. Our fire roasted gophers have been rated number one and we have the statistics to prove it. Just ask all of our returning customers. We're not trying to make a profit on our BBQd rodents, we only want to recover our costs from doing research about preserving and documenting gopher villages. Recently, we found out that GV244 (Gopher Village 244) and GV 251 are probably one and the same. However, the truth may never be told because some gopher hunter don't report the real locations of their finds. Soggy-Boggy-Bottom Boy#2 PS...our soggy bottoms are also rated #1 At 07:55 AM 11/24/2004, David Freeman wrote: Dear List, Soggy-Bottom Boys; I am truly moved by your candor! Bernd made the point, and you have successfully satirized the foolishness of a couple very non-important issues. I offer a strong heartfelt BRAVO to Bernd, Dave, the two Johns, and would like to be on the dapper dan list and share gopher with you all's! ...or at least engage the intellectual stimulating conversationif any arises there delbert! Mine are not any better than u'ns, my river rocks that is, Green River has soggy bottoms and wonderfully tasty gophers too, Dave F. JKGwilliam wrote: I think this gets my vote for Post of the Week! Thanks to Dave for offering to share his Soggy Bottom-Boggy-Bottom meteorites with us. I have personally seen these wonderful stones and can attest to their pedigree...they are real Soggy-Boggy-Bottoms. Uh.speaking of that EX of yours Dave.uhdo you have a phone number for her;-) JKG At 10:14 PM 11/23/2004, DNAndrews wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When you think one or more of our list members is a a little bit off or just plain whacky, then think again when one compares such folks to the seller, buyer and believers of this crap. I'm usually just a lurker, but all this Soggy-Boggy-Bottom Meteorite stuff has me in an uproar. Maybe they want to just share a gopher-on-a-stick or sing into a can . It just makes me just want to know why exactly they are here on this list cramming their crapola down our throat. Stellar grainswhat rock doesn't have those. For any Soggy-Bottom Meteorites...just come to my house. I have an entire backyard full of those critters and would very much like to get rid of them. Come on and haul them off at NO charge. My EX expected me to landscape the backyard with all these Martian and Lunar wonders, but she left and...oh wellnever got done. Now they are taking up room for OUR garden and I'll give them all away for free No million-dollars-per-gramabsolutely free. Get them out of my yard and they are yours for FREE No offer refused... Can we get back on track to METEORITES instead of who has the best eBay rating and talking about RIVER rocks!?!?!?!?!?! That's exactly what the Soggy-Bottom-Boys are sellingcommon river rocks. For me and Bernd Dave (Might as well sue me too shisters ) __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NWA's
Greetings List, I am but a small time collector (200 specimens). However, I cherish my small example of the evolution of the solar system. I am also an astronomy educator. I always include meteorites in my lectors AND I am always asked how do you know if it is really a meteorite? My answer: Irons are simple to recognize, and I explain the widmanstatten figure and how it forms. Stones on the other hand require analysis especially when chondrules (I explain chondrules) are not easily visible. In those cases it is very important to know your source. I have always made it clear that I only deal with reputable dealers. The posts of late have put a very large question in my mind about who is reputable. The saddest part is that many reputable dealers are being scamed by the Nomads. I prefer to collect the rarest of the rare. And this is where most of the scams are being made. My absolute certainty of the authenticity of my collection is now in question! I do not question that any piece in my collection is or isn't a meteorite, but that it is not the specimen type that I think it is. I have always been more than excited about the immense number of new and rare meteorites coming out of the Sahara. If not for these finds I could never afford as many representations of the early solar system or of the achondrites of lessor differentiated bodies. I am crushed, uncertain and totally confused! What to do? Since I am not a big time buyer, my reluctance to purchase further NWA's will not hurt any of you. However, I feel that I am Mr. Average. If this mess curbs my desire to purchase more meteorites, I assure you it is doing the same to many more. This is the saddest moment in my 20 years of meteorite collecting. Thanks for letting me vent, Harrison __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Terroism crap from Pellisons
http://www.saharamet.com/meteorite/data/Sahara/Nwa.html Here is the direct link to this garbage from the Pellisons. They are about the worst people to ever have touched a meteorite. Read their crap and make your own decision. Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] SaharaMet Expedition on meteorite impact craters
Interesting. But I thought that driving around the desert that any money that you spent in Arab countries was used to finance Al Quada and to destroy places like america, australia and britain. What are you guys doing supporting Arab economies where terrorists are from anyway? Why dont you guys go back to France, tell more fabricated terrorist stories to some french court and leave meteorite hunting and world travelling to people with an IQ greater than 6. If you change the industry that you work in from hunting meteorites to writing fiction novels you might actually be able to make some money to buy a hat so that your brain dont get further fried in the hot sahara sun. --- SaharaMet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A new page on our desert trips: - Mauritanian Sahara expedition - Temimichat and Tenoumer impact craters - panoramic views of the craters (4000x650 pixels) - impactites and shocked granitic rocks - story of the journey Go to: http://www.saharamet.com/expedition/2003/crater.html Richard Roland Pelisson SaharaMet Sahara expeditions and great meteorite discoveries http://www.saharamet.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Terroism crap from Pellisons
Hey Mike, you miss something, these guys do business without license ! That's fair competition, isn't it. Michel FRANCO - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 6:06 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Terroism crap from Pellisons http://www.saharamet.com/meteorite/data/Sahara/Nwa.html Here is the direct link to this garbage from the Pellisons. They are about the worst people to ever have touched a meteorite. Read their crap and make your own decision. Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] SaharaMet Expedition on meteorite impact craters
This is from the pellison guys who says terrorists are being supported by you meteorite buyers. In court in France my own name was used in French court along with my postings to this list as evidence that I stated terrorists were being supported by our meteorite buys. Now I ask every member of this list? Where in the archaives do I provide evidence that Al Quada is supported by our buys? This is pure fabrication and efforts to drive everybody else out of the desert. I havent seen the court document but I suspect they have taken some of the moronic fights about exporting meteorites illegally from morocco that me, farmer, the hupes and others have sadly gotten involved in in our efforts to claim that My meteorites are better than your meteorites (Yes, I am as guilty as anybody in this My meteorites are better than your meteorites crap even though it is not possible to illegally export meteorites from morocco because there is no law in morocco saying that you cant do it - go to your local moroccan embassy if you want confirmation of what I am saying here). My suspicion is that they took things out of context and misquoted what was said taking things out of context. So lets see, we have a dealer who is known to have deliberately misquoted other people and lied about what was said in postings. We know that the pelissons are people with no scruples and have no hessitation about lying. If they willingly lie in court imagine what they would tell meteorite collectors. Tell me, is this the type of person that you would buy a meteorite from? They lied at least twice. How do you know that they are not lying when they tell you that they never bought a NWA in morocco from aid mohammad and instead of selling it for 20 cents a gram like I would do if I bought a NWA from aid mohammad, they offer it to you at $2 a gram as their own find? They lied once in a very orchastrated court fraud and made up a story that meteorite funds are supporting terrorism. Does known fakers really need three strikes to be out? If you pay more than 15 cents a gram for a pellisson meteorite you are buying something from people with no more trustworthyness than dealing with a lot of the moroccans. The pellisons meteorites have no more known about them than if you buy my 20 cent NWAs. You dont know where they are from. And yes, I really am pissed off because my name was used in french court in a fabricated court case. Sincerely DEAN --- SaharaMet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A new page on our desert trips: - Mauritanian Sahara expedition - Temimichat and Tenoumer impact craters - panoramic views of the craters (4000x650 pixels) - impactites and shocked granitic rocks - story of the journey Go to: http://www.saharamet.com/expedition/2003/crater.html Richard Roland Pelisson SaharaMet Sahara expeditions and great meteorite discoveries http://www.saharamet.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA's
Larry, this is the problem I was getting at. I will tell you the simple solution, buy the meteorite from the dealer who had it classified, then there can be no error. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Larry Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 9:54 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA's Greetings List, I am but a small time collector (200 specimens). However, I cherish my small example of the evolution of the solar system. I am also an astronomy educator. I always include meteorites in my lectors AND I am always asked how do you know if it is really a meteorite? My answer: Irons are simple to recognize, and I explain the widmanstatten figure and how it forms. Stones on the other hand require analysis especially when chondrules (I explain chondrules) are not easily visible. In those cases it is very important to know your source. I have always made it clear that I only deal with reputable dealers. The posts of late have put a very large question in my mind about who is reputable. The saddest part is that many reputable dealers are being scamed by the Nomads. I prefer to collect the rarest of the rare. And this is where most of the scams are being made. My absolute certainty of the authenticity of my collection is now in question! I do not question that any piece in my collection is or isn't a meteorite, but that it is not the specimen type that I think it is. I have always been more than excited about the immense number of new and rare meteorites coming out of the Sahara. If not for these finds I could never afford as many representations of the early solar system or of the achondrites of lessor differentiated bodies. I am crushed, uncertain and totally confused! What to do? Since I am not a big time buyer, my reluctance to purchase further NWA's will not hurt any of you. However, I feel that I am Mr. Average. If this mess curbs my desire to purchase more meteorites, I assure you it is doing the same to many more. This is the saddest moment in my 20 years of meteorite collecting. Thanks for letting me vent, Harrison __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] CR meteorite?
Hello List, can someone explain to me in laymen's ( I am stupid ) what a CR meteorite is? Thanks, Tom peregrineflier IMCA 6168 http://www.frontiernet.net/~peregrineflier/Peregrineflier.htm __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mars Exploration Rover Update - November 23, 2004
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status.html OPPORTUNITY UPDATE: Finishing Up in 'Endurance' - sol 285-291, November 23, 2004 Opportunity has now reached the furthest point east in its travels inside Endurance Crater. Rover drivers have determined that there is no safe path beyond the current position. Therefore, Opportunity is now in the midst of an intensive remote-sensing campaign, capturing a panorama of Burns Cliff plus super-resolution images and miniature thermal emission spectrometer observations of selected targets. When this campaign concludes, the rover will back away and head for a way out of Endurance Crater. Opportunity remains healthy and in an extremely advantageous solar array attitude. Sol details: The plan for 285 was to drive 1.5 meters (about 5 feet) east on firm rocky terrain ahead of the rover. The drive went as planned, covering 1.55 meters (5.1 feet). After integrating the results of this drive with an earlier study of Burns Cliff traversability, the team decided not to proceed farther. Opportunity has reached the easternmost point of its drive inside Endurance Crater. The rover is at the western edge of Burns Cliff and from this vantage point, it will perform super-high resolution imaging and other science observations. Sol 286 was a restricted sol because the team did not know results of the sol 285 drive in time for planning sol 286. Opportunity recorded more than three hours of observations, took a nap, and then used afternoon and overnight communication sessions with Mars Odyssey. Solar exposure is excellent inside the crater, so Opportunity's power and battery state of charge continue to increase. The rover has not used deep-sleep mode in more than a week, and probably won't for the foreseeable future. Sols 287 and 288 were planned together. Opportunity began super-high resolution imaging activities on sol 287. Starting at 11:15 local solar time, the rover performed the following activities: an hour of panoramic camera imaging, an hour of miniature thermal emissions spectrometer imaging and another hour of panoramic camera imaging. Sol 288 was almost exactly the same three-hour activity, but with the images targeted differently. The Deep Space Network experienced a station transmitter problem on Saturday and Opportunity did not receive all of its two-sol uplink as planned. The rover received all except the last part of the sol 287 bundle, but none of the sol 288 bundle or data management bundle. Due to quick reaction by the weekend uplink team, bundles were successfully uplinked on Sunday, in time for execution of the sol 288 plan. The total effect of the missed Saturday uplink was a loss of about 30 minutes of science on the morning of sol 288. Sols 289, 290 and 291 were very similar. Each was a continuation of the remote sensing campaign, with an additional panoramic camera observation. Sol 289 activities included observations of dunes and dust with the panoramic camera and miniature thermal emissions spectrometer. Also the panoramic camera was used for super-resolution imaging of Whatanga, a contact boundary between two layers of rocks. For sol 290, in addition to the panoramic camera observation, Opportunity made several long-dwell observations of Burns Cliff targets with its miniature thermal emission spectrometer. Cloud observations on the morning of sol 290 produced a dramatic image. Sol 291 included a super-resolution observation of a target called Bartlett. The remote sensing campaign is generating a large volume of data at a time when, due to the rover's orientation, there is limited bandwidth available for downlink. As a consequence, Opportunity is operating with limited memory headroom, though still within planning guidelines. In order to improve the situation, the team took advantage of the Deep Space Network's 70-meter antenna availability and Opportunity's good energy state to plan a one-hour, direct-to-earth session in the middle of the day on sol 291. This resulted in the downlink of an extra 15 megabits of data. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mars Global Surveyor Images - November 18-24, 2004
MARS GLOBAL SURVEYOR IMAGES November 18-24, 2004 The following new images taken by the Mars Orbiter Camera (MOC) on the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft are now available: o Small Gullied Crater (Released 18 November 2004) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2004/11/18/ o Northern Meridiani Scene (Released 19 November 2004) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2004/11/19/ o North Polar Layer Exposure (Released 20 November 2004) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2004/11/20/ o Hill and Depression (Released 21 November 2004) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2004/11/21/ o Northern Plains of Mars (Released 22 November 2004) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2004/11/22/ o A Gullied Crater Wall (Released 23 November 2004) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2004/11/23/ o Inverted Valley in Arabia (Released 24 November 2004) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2004/11/24/ All of the Mars Global Surveyor images are archived here: http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/index.html Mars Global Surveyor was launched in November 1996 and has been in Mars orbit since September 1997. It began its primary mapping mission on March 8, 1999. Mars Global Surveyor is the first mission in a long-term program of Mars exploration known as the Mars Surveyor Program that is managed by JPL for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, DC. Malin Space Science Systems (MSSS) and the California Institute of Technology built the MOC using spare hardware from the Mars Observer mission. MSSS operates the camera from its facilities in San Diego, CA. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory's Mars Surveyor Operations Project operates the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft with its industrial partner, Lockheed Martin Astronautics, from facilities in Pasadena, CA and Denver, CO. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Deep Impact Launch Rescheduled To January 8
EXPENDABLE LAUNCH VEHICLES STATUS REPORT November 24, 2004 George H. Diller Kennedy Space Center, Fla. (321) 867-2468 [snip] MISSION: Deep Impact LAUNCH VEHICLE: Delta II 7925 LAUNCH PAD: Pad 17-B Cape Canaveral Air Force Station LAUNCH DATE: NET Jan. 8, 2005 LAUNCH WINDOW: 2:39:50 p.m. (EST) instantaneous A decision has been made to reschedule the launch of the Deep Impact spacecraft to no earlier than Jan. 8 to allow more time for evaluation of mission software. While there are no significant problems associated with the spacecraft hardware, additional time is necessary to be ready for launch. Spacecraft functional and mission readiness tests continue. The stacking of the Boeing Delta II launch vehicle on Pad 17-B began on Nov. 22 with the hoisting of the first stage into the launcher. Hoisting of the nine strap-on solid rocket boosters, in sets of three, began on Nov. 23 and will continue on Nov. 29 and Dec. 1. The second stage will be hoisted into position atop the first stage on Dec. 3. The overall Deep Impact mission management for this Discovery class program is conducted by the University of Maryland in College Park, Md. Deep Impact project management is handled by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. The spacecraft was built for NASA by Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corporation. [snip] # # # __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] CR meteorite?
http://www.meteorite.fr/en/classification/carbonaceous.htm Tom AKA James Knudson wrote: Hello List, can someone explain to me in laymen's ( I am stupid ) what a CR meteorite is? Thanks, Tom peregrineflier IMCA 6168 http://www.frontiernet.net/~peregrineflier/Peregrineflier.htm __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Thirsty Bugs Found in Martian-like Desert
http://www.space.com/astronotes/astronotes.html Thirsty Bugs Found in Martian-like Desert space.com November 24, 2004 Rain falls in Chile's Atacama Desert every ten years or so -- not exactly prime real estate for living things. But a recent survey there has found an underground community of microbial life forms. NASA scientists use the Atacama as a Mars-like environment to test out life-detection instruments. There are no plants whatsoever in the heart of the desert, so one group of researchers decided to look for signs of past vegetation. Along a 120-mile stretch of desolate land, the team collected several soil samples from eight to 12 inches below the surface. In the laboratory, sterile water was added to the soil. Ten days later, bacteria were discovered growing in the test tubes. We brought'em back alive, it turns out, said Julio Betancourt, a paleoecologist from the U.S. Geological Survey. The unusual microbes may survive Atacama's long dry spells in a state of suspended animation. An earlier search for life in this desert came up empty, but the soil samples that were studied came from a shallower depth of four inches. The lesson for microbe-hunters, said Jay Quade from the University of Arizona, is: Don't just scratch the surface. The results of the study are published in the Nov. 19 issue of Science. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] WISE Satellite Will Look For Asteroids
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,595107626,00.html Sky's the limit for USU project -- an orbiting NASA telescope By Joe Bauman Deseret Morning News November 24, 2004 Under a $40 million NASA contract, Utah State University is to build an orbiting infrared telescope able to examine strange luminous galaxies, find new stars and perhaps help protect Earth from asteroids. Dubbed WISE, for Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer, the telescope is scheduled for launch in 2008. It will detect infrared light, such as heat radiation, coming from objects that are not currently detectable. The telescope will map the entire sky, according to a Web site posted by the University of California at Berkeley. It will be searching for the nearest and coolest stars, the origins of stellar and planetary systems and the most luminous galaxies in the universe. The overall cost of the project is $208 million, with USU's Space Dynamics Laboratory receiving $40 million over three years to build the instrument, according to USU. According to project scientist Peter Eisenhardt of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, at some wavelengths WISE will be 500 times more sensitive than previous infrared surveys and at others, 500,000 times more sensitive. Probably the most exciting thing about WISE for me is the potential of finding a star closer to the sun than any we know about now, he said. Scientists believe we haven't found about two-thirds of the closest stars to the sun because they're really faint and cool and dim, he added in a telephone interview. WISE might detect hundreds of brown stars, which are smaller stars that never ignited with the fusion reaction that makes our own sun blaze. Harry Ames, deputy director of the Space Dynamics Laboratory, told the Deseret Morning News on Tuesday that work will go on at SDL for about 2 1/2 years. We're basically beginning that now, he said. We've been through several major reviews, and full funding has been turned on with this new federal fiscal year, which began Oct. 1. WISE will be the first infrared telescope in 22 years to carry out a survey of the whole sky. This one's pretty exciting, Ames said. We'll be seeing probably upwards of 100,000 new asteroids out there. That's an estimate, he said, since nobody knows for certain how many there are. We think there are that many, he added. Some of them might turn out to be of the Earth-crossing variety, asteroids whose own orbits take them across the orbit of Earth. If one happened to swing close to our planet, perhaps gravity would draw it to Earth with catastrophic consequences. However, if WISE can detect the asteroid, a defense might be possible. Astronomical modeling predicts there should be stars closer to our own solar system than the nearest known system to our own, Alpha Centauri. Maybe we don't see them because they are dark stars, meaning they didn't quite explode into full suns, Ames said. While not brightly lit, these objects, denoted brown dwarfs, put out a great deal of heat. WISE could discover them by the infrared glow. The telescope also will search for galaxies that are billions of years old, whose starlight began traveling through space long before Earth ever coalesced into Earth, he added. We'll be looking at how galaxies have evolved and how solar systems have evolved. Asked the reason that WISE will be so much more sensitive than previous infrared survey projects, Ames said it is because of just a 22-year improvement in computers and in infrared focal planes. The telescope itself will be relatively small, with a diameter of just under 20 inches. It will be inexpensive for a NASA observatory, $208 million, compared with the price of the Hubble orbiting telescope. Ames said that visible-light telescope cost billions of dollars. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA's
Hi Larry, Mike and list. Yes, at first this sounds like good advice, however this can lead to numerous problems as well. For instance I obtained a beautiful large chunk of NWA 482 in a trade with you Mike, and I know that numerous other dealers also have NWA 482 for sale. If we were only to purchase from the dealer who had the meteorite classified then this would pretty much eliminate such trades as all such traded pieces would become worthless. Another example is Dhofar 019. There must be 20 dealers all legitimacy selling this shergottite, which they themselves purchased wholesale. Now if everyone were only to buy from the individual that had Dhofar 019 classified (Serge), then Serge would be stuck with around a kilo of Martian rock with no market for it except for the retail market. He would be relegated to selling off 200 mg here and 300 mg there for the next forty years. This would make the acquisition of large, rare rocks retarded unless someone wanted to spend 40 years recouping their initial investment. The same can be said for hundreds of other meteorites. This also screws the collector who may want to sell one of his expensive meteorites to buy something else. If everyone only purchases from the person that originally had the meteorite classified then the resale value of these meteorites would be zero. I don't think that the collectors are going to appreciate paying top dollar for some expensive planetary meteorite and then being told that Oh yeah, by the way don't try to sell that expensive meteorite that we just sold you because you are not the one that had it classified and no one will buy it from you. This would really piss me off if I were the collector that had spent my hard earned money on an expensive and rare meteorite specimen. The best thing for dealers to do is to get their meteorites classified by a legitimate research institution, and to use their own numbers. If they want, they can say my NWA XXX is probably paired to NWA YYY or my NWA is paired to NWA ZZZ depending upon the provisional or final classification respectively. For those buyers that want to be sure they are getting properly classified and named specimens, they should keep track of which dealers do follow the Nom. Com. guidelines and avoid those that do not. Fortunately the overwhelming majority of dealers are honest and play by the rules. Unfortunately, there is a lot of BS being put on the meteorite-list by certain meteorite dealers of the my meteorite is better than yours sort. Don't be fooled by this non-sense either-it is just a transparent attempt at self promotion. There are a lot of very reputable meteorite dealers out there that do not engage in these types of sales tactics, and I would prefer to support these honest, reputable dealers. Cheers -John Arizona Skies Meteorites http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com Michael Farmer wrote: Larry, this is the problem I was getting at. I will tell you the simple solution, buy the meteorite from the dealer who had it classified, then there can be no error. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Larry Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 9:54 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA's Greetings List, I am but a small time collector (200 specimens). However, I cherish my small example of the evolution of the solar system. I am also an astronomy educator. I always include meteorites in my lectors AND I am always asked how do you know if it is really a meteorite? My answer: Irons are simple to recognize, and I explain the widmanstatten figure and how it forms. Stones on the other hand require analysis especially when chondrules (I explain chondrules) are not easily visible. In those cases it is very important to know your source. I have always made it clear that I only deal with reputable dealers. The posts of late have put a very large question in my mind about who is reputable. The saddest part is that many reputable dealers are being scamed by the Nomads. I prefer to collect the rarest of the rare. And this is where most of the scams are being made. My absolute certainty of the authenticity of my collection is now in question! I do not question that any piece in my collection is or isn't a meteorite, but that it is not the specimen type that I think it is. I have always been more than excited about the immense number of new and rare meteorites coming out of the Sahara. If not for these finds I could never afford as many representations of the early solar system or of the achondrites of lessor differentiated bodies. I am crushed, uncertain and totally confused! What to do? Since I am not a big time buyer, my reluctance to purchase further NWA's will not hurt any of you. However, I feel that I am Mr. Average. If this mess curbs my desire to purchase more meteorites, I assure you it is doing the same to many more. This is the saddest moment in my 20
Re: [meteorite-list] Unrelated to meteorites
FIRST: If you are humor challenged and/or do not want to read a post unrelated to meteorites - DELETE NOW - Thanksgiving humor: -- A young man named John received a parrot as a gift. The parrot had a bad attitude and an even worse vocabulary. Every word out of the bird's mouth was rude, obnoxious and laced with profanity. John tried and tried to change the bird's attitude by consistently saying only polite words, playing soft music and anything else he could think of to clean up the bird's vocabulary. Finally, John was fed up and he yelled at the parrot. The parrot yelled back. John shook the parrot and the parrot got angrier and even ruder. In desperation, John threw up his hands, grabbed the bird and put him in the freezer. For a few minutes the parrot squawked and kicked and screamed. Then suddenly there was total quiet. Not a peep was heard for over a minute. Fearing that he'd hurt the parrot, John quickly opened the door to the freezer. The parrot calmly stepped out onto John's outstretched arm and said, I believe I may have offended you with my rude language and actions. I'm sincerely remorseful for my inappropriate transgressions and I fully intend to do everything I can to correct my rude and unforgivable behavior. John was stunned at the change in the bird's attitude. He was about to ask the parrot what had made such a dramatic change in his behavior, when the bird continued, May I ask what the turkey did? __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Test - Please delete
__ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] CR Chondrites
Hello Tom and List, I've told you at least once before and I am telling you once again: Please, stop imparting a feeling of inferiority to yourself and don't keep telling the world that you are what you call stupid. Just think of your falcons - they are proud, majestic creatures even though they don't know anything about meteorites. Ignorance is one thing, stupidity another and it has many different facets as we all know so well ;-) As for CR meteorites, here is a slightly shortened version from NORTON O.R. (1998) Rocks From Space II, p. 195: CR chondrites ... contain about 10 % by weight iron-nickel metal and iron sulfide. The metal content is the most easily distinguished characteristic. The metal is found in the fine-grained matrix and as inclusions in the chondrules. Roughly 50 percent of the meteorite is relatively large chondrules (0.027-inch average diameter) and chondrule fragments. O.R. Norton's descriptive explanation is not *too* technical and good enough as a first approach. I would only add that more often than not CR chondrules are surrounded by a metallic rim, in other words they are armored. One might also add that, although they do not look carbonaceous at first sight, they are considered members of this group because their compositions are similar to those of the carbonaceous chondrites. Best wishes, Bernd (still in love with his gorgeous, cut 7.23-gram CR2 crusted endpiece purchased from Dean in May of 2003) __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice, MAIN MASS 1, 968g
Hi Dean, GREAT post - thanks for saying the obvious! I didn't feel it was my place to step into a NWA debate to state the obvious, myself, as, due to my health, I have NEVER gone there. I noted with great interest the LACK of response to your post! Well, now doesn't that speak volumes?! It is refreshing to hear just the plane TRUTH stated free of the quacking of the ducks. Best wishes, Michael on 11/24/04 7:29 AM, dean bessey at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, I am sick of this. Want some meteorite trade secrets and the inside scoup on some scams? If so dont fall asleap while reading my manuscript here. Adam keeps saying NWA869 is unofficial which is correct but its been classified. Alan rubin classified it twice as L4 and L5, matteo got an 3.8-6 and another french dealer got 3.8. Farmer has it classified. Obviously Paired NWA904 has been classified. There is no meteorite that is like NWA869. Its a very brecciated meteorite. Look at this one for example. http://www.meteoriteshop.com/ebay/nwa869two.jpg There is another university actually interested in it and is doing a big research project on many kilos. It is easy to recogonize NWA869 (Or whatever you want to call it - NWA869 has taken on the most commonly accepted name I guess because I have been so vocal with promoting hundreds of kilos of it). For the record it will not appear in the bulletin this year (So yes, will remain unofficial for another year so the stupid unofficial arguement can continue to be made) because it is such a varied meteorite that has created so much discussion that Michael Zolonsky asked to get a sample to look at himself. I plan on sending him a good brecciated sample showing 3 different meteorites but I havent been able to contact him for a couple weeks. Scientiest sare very busy nowadays with institutions so underfunded. One can take the fact that scientists dont have time to go through the expensive motions to pair chondrites and then say It is wrong to make pairing judgements knowing full well that it wont get done but that dont disprove the fact that they are the same meteorite. NWA869 will most likely be the biggest strewnfield from the desert and one of the largest chondrite strewnfields in the world. It great that the biggest one had to be such a nice and interesting and varied meteorite. You can wish them different because that would make them worth more but fact is if you paid $1 a gram for one of the paired stones that several dealers are selling as low TKW you have been ripped off - and since every dealer can recogonize NWA869 the dealer knew that he ripped you off. Plain and simple. Wishing wont make it something else anymore than wishing wont make BCCs fake mnoon rock real. And using the lame arguement that no scientists has scientifically paired every single one of 75,000 stones just dont wash. We all know they are the same. I will go further because I am sick of this. What is happening with NWA869 and NWA1109 is nothing short of fraud. And there are 3 or 4 dealers involved. NWA869 is a great meteorite and one can easily take one of the more brecciated ones (With the black inclusions or melt which makes it more interesting) and call it something else. At least one dealer is selling it as his own find. Take a particularly nice one and get it classified and sell it for $1 a gram and argue like the fake moon rock people that they are real. Threaten lawsuits if necessary to scare people. NWA1109 is more interesting. We were all once buying it for upwards of $20 a gram in morocco once and everybody thought it was an howardite. (Although I have a kilo piece now that I would part with foor $7500) The diogenite levels has to be 10% to make it a howardite. Every dealer knows this so whats happening with 3 or 4 dealers (Including some in europe so I am not singling one dealer out here - or even two dealers) is to find a piece with more than 10% diogenite material and get that classified and then the whole stone is a howardite worth $75 a gram instead of $15. You only need a half square inch of material with 10% diopgenite material to get the entire stone officially in the met bulletin as a howardite. NWA1109 is a great meteorite and a whole host of dealers are taking obviously paired stones and finding a piece with 10% diogenite material and then getting the howardite classification. Paired NWA1644 (Classified by MIT as a polymict eucrite because the sample that I gave them only had 6% diogenite material) had a customer send his piece to a university in germany (He wanted official verification that I was selling a real meteorite as he was very sceptical that I was selling a meteorite) and came back howardite because that sample that he gav eto the university had the 10% requirement. So NWA1644 has been properly classified as both but it appears in teh bulletin as a eucrite. There are lots of
[meteorite-list] NWA 869
There is no meteorite that is like NWA869. Its a very brecciated meteorite. Look at this one for example: http://www.meteoriteshop.com/ebay/nwa869two.jpg And also look (again) at these two beauties of mine (from Dean): http://www.geocities.com/spacerocksinc/Oct_24.html Cheers, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA's
Hi Larry All, I read your post with some degree of sorrow, Larry, but many of us figured all this out years ago as the flood began and the stories came out. Some people I know won't collect any NWA material, others jump on everything they can lay their hands on, due to the relatively VERY low prices, while others are varying degrees of selective. I fall in the latter category as a collector (and as a dealer) - and at a relatively extreme end of conservative - BUT, the richness of material coming out of NWA is so great, I still have a major portion of my collection that is labeled NWA. Why? besides for MANY great specimens of total variety, and exceptionally low prices, I am convinced that AT LEAST 99% of the material is accurately typed. The only question is of paired meteorites - and this is due to a combination of the approach of the scientific community and to dealer greed. When NWA material first started many dealers claimed they were PERSONALLY finding the material, but refused to divulge coordinates to protect the fall from other dealers going there before they got all of it themselves. While this may have been true in a few isolated cases, the truth is the vast majority of falls were picked up by nomads and sold in a city market - the dealers only knew they came out of the desert. Dean Bessey was the first dealer I knew who openly admitted buying EVERYTHING from the nomads in the marketplace, but I don't remember Mike Farmer Jim Strope ever claiming to find anything there in the early days, either... though I think they actually did a little of that after becoming familiar with the area after several trips. (None of this is in reference to any particular dealer - but more in terms of the trend of behavior. I KNOW E.T. often went to the actual location of some falls - but they usually had names - like El Hammami - which he carried out of the mountains on a string of camels. A few of the pieces still show a rusted side where they lay against the sweating camel in gunny sacks!). Meanwhile, the scientists decided they couldn't pair ANY meteorites from NWA since there was never a location provided - therefore, each and every stone got its own find number or was unidentified. Dealers then started pairing the visually obvious (which was never 100% accurate, of course - but mostly). And here we are, today - we get some of the best, rarest and most zappy material ever at sometimes less than 10% of what we could have expected to pay before NWA opened up -but NOT 100% accuracy in identification - BUT, almost always true typology. Since we never knew exactly WHERE anything was from anyway - the answer I came up for myself was to limit my collection to OBVIOUSLY different falls of any given type. While this doesn't 100% guarantee I don't have differently numbered members of the same fall - it comes close. I also limit NWA primarily to the zappy looking or the very rare typology. Everyone has to decide how to deal with this, themselves - but this is part of the price of getting cool material dirt cheap. Best wishes, Michael on 11/24/04 8:54 AM, Larry Harrison at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings List, I am but a small time collector (200 specimens). However, I cherish my small example of the evolution of the solar system. I am also an astronomy educator. I always include meteorites in my lectors AND I am always asked how do you know if it is really a meteorite? My answer: Irons are simple to recognize, and I explain the widmanstatten figure and how it forms. Stones on the other hand require analysis especially when chondrules (I explain chondrules) are not easily visible. In those cases it is very important to know your source. I have always made it clear that I only deal with reputable dealers. The posts of late have put a very large question in my mind about who is reputable. The saddest part is that many reputable dealers are being scamed by the Nomads. I prefer to collect the rarest of the rare. And this is where most of the scams are being made. My absolute certainty of the authenticity of my collection is now in question! I do not question that any piece in my collection is or isn't a meteorite, but that it is not the specimen type that I think it is. I have always been more than excited about the immense number of new and rare meteorites coming out of the Sahara. If not for these finds I could never afford as many representations of the early solar system or of the achondrites of lessor differentiated bodies. I am crushed, uncertain and totally confused! What to do? Since I am not a big time buyer, my reluctance to purchase further NWA's will not hurt any of you. However, I feel that I am Mr. Average. If this mess curbs my desire to purchase more meteorites, I assure you it is doing the same to many more. This is the saddest moment in my 20 years of meteorite collecting. Thanks for letting me vent,
[meteorite-list] Adam's bullshit re nwa 904
here ya go adam- granted the scale shows a discrepancy of 2g - but i repolished the slice on my own. I bought it from you guys off of ebay - if i gave a shit about your attorney i could look back through my email archives and tell you what ebay auction number it was. http://img94.exs.cx/img94/8020/nwa904.jpg are you telling me that the stone you sold me was not nwa 904? should i be making fraud charges against YOU I'm waiting for an IMMEDIATE explaination here. stan From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice,MAIN MASS 1, 968g Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 02:04:54 -0800 Why do you post such BS?, the images you share are false, Expect to hear form my attorney! - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice,MAIN MASS 1, 968g Sorta looks like NWA869 to me. far from this Dean. Maybe this is not that big different from NWA869 as my NWA1906 from Mike NWA1906 :-D but this is for sure not the same meteorite. http://img106.exs.cx/img106/764/869and904.jpg one of the slices in that photo is a piece of 904 from the hupes, the other is a piece of 869 from dean. both great hunks of meteorite... wanna guess what one is what? __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] RE: NWA 869
Yes ! it's one of the best ! http://www.austromet.com/collection/NWA869_ec01.jpg http://www.austromet.com/collection/NWA869_slc01.jpg It also has weird inclusions http://www.austromet.com/collection/NWA869_235g_SMALL.jpg http://www.austromet.com/collection/NWA869_235g_closeup_01.jpg I love it ! cheers, Christian IMCA #2673 www.austromet.com Christian Anger Korngasse 6 2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg AUSTRIA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 8:50 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 869 There is no meteorite that is like NWA869. Its a very brecciated meteorite. Look at this one for example: http://www.meteoriteshop.com/ebay/nwa869two.jpg And also look (again) at these two beauties of mine (from Dean): http://www.geocities.com/spacerocksinc/Oct_24.html Cheers, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NWA 869
I got my 335 gram slice of NWA 869 from dean last year for $50.It has everything you could want in an nwa 869 piece.Dean is the man when it comes to this meteorite.For an ordinary chondrite, it just has so much to offer a meteorite collecter.I have a 100 gram slice of NWA 904, and it does not look like anything NWA 869.I believe the 2 were classified correctly.There is no comparison.Hence, a COLLECTION IN A SLICE.Replys?? steve arnold,Chicago,USA!! = Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 Illinois Meteorites website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice, MAIN MASS 1, 968g
Stan is full of hot air. He is just sore because a dealer manufactured classification of NWA 1839 was posted to the List and both NAU and UW are aware of it. That's correct, the latest information posted to the List was not even a working copy, just something put together to compete against NWA 3133 by an amateur, it crossed way over the line. NWA 1839 was reported as weighing about 122 grams to the NomCom and as an L7 yet over 500 grams has been claimed to the List by Stan and at first it he claimed it was paired with NWA 011, explain this. This is all in the archives so check it out yourself. the TRUTH about the pairing of nwa nwa 1839 and 3133 - go to: http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~glg100-p/Meteorite.html this is the offical Northern Arizona University web page maintianed by Dr Bunch and Dr Wittke scroll down to the bottom of the page where a summary of meteorite classifications is located click on 'primitive achonderites' scroll down to the middle of the page where the heading 'primitive ungrouped achonderites' is seen. you will SPECIFICALLY see where the fine researchers at NAU are publically calling NWA 3133 and 1839 THE SAME METEORITE. dispute that Adam - unless you want to say that Dr. Bunch and Dr. Whittke dont know what they are tlaking about you have no ground to stand on. to anyone that is curious about this issue - LOOK at the archives. I never once said that nwa 1839 and nwa 011 were paired. i described nwa 1839 by saying it was 'as cool as nwa 011' unless the nomcom recently changed the verbage associated with pairings, saying something is as cool as another meorite is NOT the same as saying they are paired. what is the big deal here? well look at ebay auctions - adam is trying to sell nwa 3133 for 400$ a gram iirc - I'd more than happily sell the small pieces of nwa 1839 I have for 100$ a gram i owunder why he is so unhappy about a pairing determination between the two nwa's __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: Adam's bullshit re nwa 904
Stan, the image you took proves absolutely nothing because we don't know what the other meteorite is that it is being compared to. If it has a label stating it is NWA 904 then it is NWA 904. One reason is that you can not say for sure the other stone is NWA 869 because it has never been classified. I have seen CCs pulled from batches of NWA 869 so everything is getting mixed in. Look at the crust on the NWA 904 piece and compare it to the so-called NWA 869, see the differences. NWA 904 was submitted to UCLA close to the same time as NWA 869. Can you tell everybody why NWA 904 is official and NWA 869 is not. Could it be that they are different? Read the archives, this issue has come up before. NWA 904 was first called a collection in a slice by a well-known and respected List member who pointed out the differences on his web-site. . - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 12:03 PM Subject: Adam's bullshit re nwa 904 here ya go adam- granted the scale shows a discrepancy of 2g - but i repolished the slice on my own. I bought it from you guys off of ebay - if i gave a shit about your attorney i could look back through my email archives and tell you what ebay auction number it was. http://img94.exs.cx/img94/8020/nwa904.jpg are you telling me that the stone you sold me was not nwa 904? should i be making fraud charges against YOU I'm waiting for an IMMEDIATE explaination here. stan From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice,MAIN MASS 1, 968g Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 02:04:54 -0800 Why do you post such BS?, the images you share are false, Expect to hear form my attorney! - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice,MAIN MASS 1, 968g Sorta looks like NWA869 to me. far from this Dean. Maybe this is not that big different from NWA869 as my NWA1906 from Mike NWA1906 :-D but this is for sure not the same meteorite. http://img106.exs.cx/img106/764/869and904.jpg one of the slices in that photo is a piece of 904 from the hupes, the other is a piece of 869 from dean. both great hunks of meteorite... wanna guess what one is what? __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice, MAIN MASS 1, 968g
Stan, Have you had your materiel tested? Go back and talk to NAU about the pairing status of NWA 1839 and NWA 3133. It is still up in air regardless of what was put on the web-site because testing has not yet proved a pairing. There are some differences between the two so more testing is needed. Why was a fabricated classification posted to the List in regards to NWA 1839? Maybe you should ask Dr. Bunch about this, as well and report back to us. Adam - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice,MAIN MASS 1, 968g Stan is full of hot air. He is just sore because a dealer manufactured classification of NWA 1839 was posted to the List and both NAU and UW are aware of it. That's correct, the latest information posted to the List was not even a working copy, just something put together to compete against NWA 3133 by an amateur, it crossed way over the line. NWA 1839 was reported as weighing about 122 grams to the NomCom and as an L7 yet over 500 grams has been claimed to the List by Stan and at first it he claimed it was paired with NWA 011, explain this. This is all in the archives so check it out yourself. the TRUTH about the pairing of nwa nwa 1839 and 3133 - go to: http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~glg100-p/Meteorite.html this is the offical Northern Arizona University web page maintianed by Dr Bunch and Dr Wittke scroll down to the bottom of the page where a summary of meteorite classifications is located click on 'primitive achonderites' scroll down to the middle of the page where the heading 'primitive ungrouped achonderites' is seen. you will SPECIFICALLY see where the fine researchers at NAU are publically calling NWA 3133 and 1839 THE SAME METEORITE. dispute that Adam - unless you want to say that Dr. Bunch and Dr. Whittke dont know what they are tlaking about you have no ground to stand on. to anyone that is curious about this issue - LOOK at the archives. I never once said that nwa 1839 and nwa 011 were paired. i described nwa 1839 by saying it was 'as cool as nwa 011' unless the nomcom recently changed the verbage associated with pairings, saying something is as cool as another meorite is NOT the same as saying they are paired. what is the big deal here? well look at ebay auctions - adam is trying to sell nwa 3133 for 400$ a gram iirc - I'd more than happily sell the small pieces of nwa 1839 I have for 100$ a gram i owunder why he is so unhappy about a pairing determination between the two nwa's __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Adam's bullshit re nwa 904
wow what language From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Adam's bullshit re nwa 904 Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 20:03:37 + here ya go adam- granted the scale shows a discrepancy of 2g - but i repolished the slice on my own. I bought it from you guys off of ebay - if i gave a shit about your attorney i could look back through my email archives and tell you what ebay auction number it was. http://img94.exs.cx/img94/8020/nwa904.jpg are you telling me that the stone you sold me was not nwa 904? should i be making fraud charges against YOU I'm waiting for an IMMEDIATE explaination here. stan From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice,MAIN MASS 1, 968g Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 02:04:54 -0800 Why do you post such BS?, the images you share are false, Expect to hear form my attorney! - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice,MAIN MASS 1, 968g Sorta looks like NWA869 to me. far from this Dean. Maybe this is not that big different from NWA869 as my NWA1906 from Mike NWA1906 :-D but this is for sure not the same meteorite. http://img106.exs.cx/img106/764/869and904.jpg one of the slices in that photo is a piece of 904 from the hupes, the other is a piece of 869 from dean. both great hunks of meteorite... wanna guess what one is what? __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Scarica gratuitamente MSN Toolbar! http://toolbar.msn.it/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Adam's bullshit re nwa 904
I agree, keep the language civil even if you can't seem to get over it. I think we are all tired of this thread so it is time to sew it shut and bury it! Greg - Original Message - From: McomeMeteorite Meteorite [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 2:30 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Adam's bullshit re nwa 904 wow what language From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Adam's bullshit re nwa 904 Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 20:03:37 + here ya go adam- granted the scale shows a discrepancy of 2g - but i repolished the slice on my own. I bought it from you guys off of ebay - if i gave a shit about your attorney i could look back through my email archives and tell you what ebay auction number it was. http://img94.exs.cx/img94/8020/nwa904.jpg are you telling me that the stone you sold me was not nwa 904? should i be making fraud charges against YOU I'm waiting for an IMMEDIATE explaination here. stan From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice,MAIN MASS 1, 968g Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 02:04:54 -0800 Why do you post such BS?, the images you share are false, Expect to hear form my attorney! - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice,MAIN MASS 1, 968g Sorta looks like NWA869 to me. far from this Dean. Maybe this is not that big different from NWA869 as my NWA1906 from Mike NWA1906 :-D but this is for sure not the same meteorite. http://img106.exs.cx/img106/764/869and904.jpg one of the slices in that photo is a piece of 904 from the hupes, the other is a piece of 869 from dean. both great hunks of meteorite... wanna guess what one is what? __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Scarica gratuitamente MSN Toolbar! http://toolbar.msn.it/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
AW: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice, MAIN MASS 1, 968g
Interesting. This is a picture of an 1.5g slice I have in my collection: http://www.meteoritegallery.com/gallery/viennametcoll/711_nwa_1839?full= 1 Very strange meteorite indeed... Bernhard -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von stan . Gesendet: Mittwoch, 24. November 2004 21:18 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice,MAIN MASS 1, 968g Stan is full of hot air. He is just sore because a dealer manufactured classification of NWA 1839 was posted to the List and both NAU and UW are aware of it. That's correct, the latest information posted to the List was not even a working copy, just something put together to compete against NWA 3133 by an amateur, it crossed way over the line. NWA 1839 was reported as weighing about 122 grams to the NomCom and as an L7 yet over 500 grams has been claimed to the List by Stan and at first it he claimed it was paired with NWA 011, explain this. This is all in the archives so check it out yourself. the TRUTH about the pairing of nwa nwa 1839 and 3133 - go to: http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~glg100-p/Meteorite.html this is the offical Northern Arizona University web page maintianed by Dr Bunch and Dr Wittke scroll down to the bottom of the page where a summary of meteorite classifications is located click on 'primitive achonderites' scroll down to the middle of the page where the heading 'primitive ungrouped achonderites' is seen. you will SPECIFICALLY see where the fine researchers at NAU are publically calling NWA 3133 and 1839 THE SAME METEORITE. dispute that Adam - unless you want to say that Dr. Bunch and Dr. Whittke dont know what they are tlaking about you have no ground to stand on. to anyone that is curious about this issue - LOOK at the archives. I never once said that nwa 1839 and nwa 011 were paired. i described nwa 1839 by saying it was 'as cool as nwa 011' unless the nomcom recently changed the verbage associated with pairings, saying something is as cool as another meorite is NOT the same as saying they are paired. what is the big deal here? well look at ebay auctions - adam is trying to sell nwa 3133 for 400$ a gram iirc - I'd more than happily sell the small pieces of nwa 1839 I have for 100$ a gram i owunder why he is so unhappy about a pairing determination between the two nwa's __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA's
Well that's what the Hupes are doing, trying to get there name in perpetuity on every piece, owning the market on it, create distrust on the buyers part. That model works great Mike until you sell your first large lot to someone who may want to resell or trade some...at which point your statement screws your customers. Excellent marketing. Sorry I don't have a better answer Larry, we are being enlightened as we go. Rob Wesel -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Larry Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 9:40 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA's Larry, this is the problem I was getting at. I will tell you the simple solution, buy the meteorite from the dealer who had it classified, then there can be no error. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Larry Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 9:54 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA's Greetings List, I am but a small time collector (200 specimens). However, I cherish my small example of the evolution of the solar system. I am also an astronomy educator. I always include meteorites in my lectors AND I am always asked how do you know if it is really a meteorite? My answer: Irons are simple to recognize, and I explain the widmanstatten figure and how it forms. Stones on the other hand require analysis especially when chondrules (I explain chondrules) are not easily visible. In those cases it is very important to know your source. I have always made it clear that I only deal with reputable dealers. The posts of late have put a very large question in my mind about who is reputable. The saddest part is that many reputable dealers are being scamed by the Nomads. I prefer to collect the rarest of the rare. And this is where most of the scams are being made. My absolute certainty of the authenticity of my collection is now in question! I do not question that any piece in my collection is or isn't a meteorite, but that it is not the specimen type that I think it is. I have always been more than excited about the immense number of new and rare meteorites coming out of the Sahara. If not for these finds I could never afford as many representations of the early solar system or of the achondrites of lessor differentiated bodies. I am crushed, uncertain and totally confused! What to do? Since I am not a big time buyer, my reluctance to purchase further NWA's will not hurt any of you. However, I feel that I am Mr. Average. If this mess curbs my desire to purchase more meteorites, I assure you it is doing the same to many more. This is the saddest moment in my 20 years of meteorite collecting. Thanks for letting me vent, Harrison __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA's, Dealers, Science, NomCom
Hello John, Larry, Mike, Michael, List,
I want to respond to John's point of view on Mike's dramatic suggestion that we
acquire NWA's only from the dealer that classified it.
Mike - good post. My only wincing is that the dealer doesn't classify it. A
Met Soc approved researcher does mi cuate. I know you know that but it won't
hurt to remind you, I think, with my respects, as always to you for a bang-up
job. I am in agreement with the spirit of your post and with that of John's
with has me thinking you are both way too right, extreme and impractical. What
you have done IMHO is make a perfect combined argument to get all the dealers
off their alleged lazy and greedy duffs to do the right thing.
John - Your post was good as usual, but more jaded than I am accustomed to
coming from you. This Trust argument alternative holds no water personally
since folks like me and I assume like Larry are not interested in doing credit
and background checks on dealers. And without folks like me and I assume like
Larry all you dealers will be soon stuck in a pyramid scheme with each other on
Meteorite pricing which everyone's free-for-all neglect of scientific protocol
has created and sales have happily fomented.
So Listen, please and stop blaming the nomads gangs (wow that was a laugher)
or Habibi or Hupe or whoever and distancing yourselves - this is a collective
problem, period.
John, other than the trust monopoly exclusive club smelling thing you
suggest, I think you have not added your usual eye-opening value to Mike's
post. The answer [I think] here is to add the stone and fragment numbers to
conserve the classification process. Like NWA 6000, 2, 4 {...}. And keep a
copy of the original classification card. In this hypothetical exaple case,
the NWA 6000 stone #2 slice 4. I stole the idea from Dr. Grossman and NASA
curators. It works. Then if you cut the slice in half and give your partner
the second half, she has NWA 6000,2,4,2. Don't make this confusing. sheesh,
it is just adding a number and only when necessary to your little piece of
heaven, not cataloging the entire stone.
Larry, let me give you the reason I think no one has done this. It isn't some
far flung idea - there is a great scientific precedent now and for years. My
opinion is that meteorite dealers just don't want to deal with the paperwork.
What a PATHETIC excuse of theirs. They know enough to know who they bought
the piece from and how much they sold it to you for. And the tax authority
probably requires it anyway, too, but let's let the tax authority police them
on that. The other half is that they don't want you to know where they got it
from. Another pathetic excuse to sacrifice the science you buy for their
blindly greedy benefits.
The elementary school library has the Dewey Decimal system, what a great model,
and first graders can handle it, but not us. Ho Hum. I bet a German cat could
handle it. It is the same no-brainer thing.
So no one is asking from John for his new esquisite Sahara iron these numbers,
and he won't send them to you (or will he:)). So let's not just blame the
dealers, but take our ownership as well. No more I don't know what to do,
it's a meteorite jungle out there. Just a courteous question to the dealer.
Can you tell me the fragment number I am buying? If they squeal on that one
you know you are dealing with a pig. If they are honest you're not buying a
pig in a poke.
Dealers, well now that I'm in boiling water, how is this: We are not
interested in your name or your competitors original card. It should just be
the MetSoc approved researcher's card. OK scientists, taxonomists, Jeff and
committe members. Here is your chance to shine...can you suggest a simple card
filled out by the researcher when classifying all specimens of a #?. No
dealers need apply. How handsome my collection of 50 meteoritic scraps (and
one nice witnessed Mexican fall) would then be. How enchanted I would be
looking over my real collection!!! Not that I am not now, but we need to do
better and find the way to make all benefit. Not shoot down one good idea
after another. John, Mike thanks for the platform and good ideas that had me
do this one.
Saludos, Doug
After spending the night with Comet Machholz and a spotlight Moon last night I
may be tired so I may be a little crusty today. Don't mind.
En un mensaje con fecha 11/24/2004 12:56:32 PM Mexico Standard Time, [EMAIL
PROTECTED] escribe:
Hi Larry, Mike and list. Yes, at first this sounds like good advice, however
this can lead to numerous problems as well. For instance I obtained a beautiful
large chunk of NWA 482 in a trade with you Mike, and I know that numerous other
dealers also have NWA 482 for sale. If we were only to purchase from the dealer
who had the meteorite classified then this would pretty much eliminate such
trades as all such traded
pieces would become worthless. Another
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice, MAIN MASS 1, 968g
Have you had your materiel tested? yes, the material i am offering currently IS nwa 1839 part of the original mass that was studied by NAU Go back and talk to NAU about the pairing status of NWA 1839 and NWA 3133. I dont need to talk to the researchers again - they are publically saying that nwa 3133 and 1839 are paired. thats good enough for me. It is still up in air regardless of what was put on the web-site because testing has not yet proved a pairing. There are some differences between the two so more testing is needed. so what you are saying is NAU didnt know what they were doing when they made statements on their web site a week or so ago that said nwa 3133 and 1839 are paired? Why was a fabricated classification posted to the List in regards to NWA 1839? Maybe you should ask Dr. Bunch about this, as well and report back to us. funny you should mention that adam, i DID email Dr. Bunch and in short his reply does NOT confirm your claims. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Happy Thanksgiving!!!
Just wanted to wish all of my fellow American list members a Happy and safe Thanksgiving. Let`s all try to put our differences away for awhile and relax and enjoy this time of year with family and friends!!! Dave __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice, MAIN MASS 1, 968g
Stan, If you have something official please present it for consideration. The official weight of NWA 1839 is 122 grams. Regardless of what a Moroccan may tell you about additional stones, something of this magnitude has to be tested. If more weight is being claimed for NWA 1839 it should be tested and claimed in a NomCom approved way. Do not forget that there are other laboratories working on this besides NAU that have not weighed in the issue yet. I have seen nothing official in regards to a NWA 1839/3133 pairing. I have also never seen an updated classification submission. As a matter of fact, I have never seen a NWA 1839 specimen. With out the facts I make no assumptions regarding pairings. If in doubt, have it checked out. Adam - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 1:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice,MAIN MASS 1, 968g Have you had your materiel tested? yes, the material i am offering currently IS nwa 1839 part of the original mass that was studied by NAU Go back and talk to NAU about the pairing status of NWA 1839 and NWA 3133. I dont need to talk to the researchers again - they are publically saying that nwa 3133 and 1839 are paired. thats good enough for me. It is still up in air regardless of what was put on the web-site because testing has not yet proved a pairing. There are some differences between the two so more testing is needed. so what you are saying is NAU didnt know what they were doing when they made statements on their web site a week or so ago that said nwa 3133 and 1839 are paired? Why was a fabricated classification posted to the List in regards to NWA 1839? Maybe you should ask Dr. Bunch about this, as well and report back to us. funny you should mention that adam, i DID email Dr. Bunch and in short his reply does NOT confirm your claims. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice, MAIN MASS 1, 968g
If you have something official please present it for consideration. I dont need to wait till the reclassifcation is published to consider it. NAU is now saying publically that nwa 3133 and 1389 are the same meteorite - that is good enough for me. if you rather wait till after something is published, thats your perogative. The official weight of NWA 1839 is 122 grams. Regardless of what a Moroccan may tell you about additional stones, something of this magnitude has to be tested. ONE MORE TIME FOR THE CHEAP SEATS. the material I am offering at 100$ a gram was cut off of the aproximatly 122g main mass of nwa 1839 by the owner of said stone. it IS nwa 1839. The additional stone i own is in my collection and not a part of this discussion. The only reason why I had mentioend it is because I belive it WILL be classified as the same stuff and I want to provide any potential customers with as much good faith information about TKW as i can. I'm sure no customer out there would comaplin that the TKW for the material was estimated on the high side instead of low when all is said and done. Do not forget that there are other laboratories working on this besides NAU that have not weighed in the issue yet. thats fine, but NAU's deterimination is good enough for me. I have seen nothing official in regards to a NWA 1839/3133 pairing. just because you ahvent seen something doesnt mean it exists (official or otherwise). i have never seen the beetles play a live concert - does that mean that 'yesterday' is a frabrication and not a real hit song? I have also never seen an updated classification submission. As a matter of fact, I have never seen a NWA 1839 specimen. With out the facts I make no assumptions regarding pairings. If in doubt, have it checked out. adam, if you ahvent seen any of these things, i'd say that the ONLY thing that means is that you are NOT qualified to make any statements about any possible pairing between these two numbers. The fine people at NAU HAVE seen the meteorites, I'll take their word for any possible pairing. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Adam's bull re nwa 904
I appologize for the language I used. having your brother tell me I'm fraudulently describing a meteorite as nwa 904 when i bought it from you guys in the first place really ticked me off. I'm sure you can udnerstand that. stan From: Greg Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: McomeMeteorite Meteorite [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Adam's bullshit re nwa 904 Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:44:35 -0600 I agree, keep the language civil even if you can't seem to get over it. I think we are all tired of this thread so it is time to sew it shut and bury it! Greg - Original Message - From: McomeMeteorite Meteorite [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 2:30 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Adam's bullshit re nwa 904 wow what language From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Adam's bullshit re nwa 904 Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 20:03:37 + here ya go adam- granted the scale shows a discrepancy of 2g - but i repolished the slice on my own. I bought it from you guys off of ebay - if i gave a shit about your attorney i could look back through my email archives and tell you what ebay auction number it was. http://img94.exs.cx/img94/8020/nwa904.jpg are you telling me that the stone you sold me was not nwa 904? should i be making fraud charges against YOU I'm waiting for an IMMEDIATE explaination here. stan From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice,MAIN MASS 1, 968g Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 02:04:54 -0800 Why do you post such BS?, the images you share are false, Expect to hear form my attorney! - Original Message - From: stan . [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA904 Meteorite, Collection in a Slice,MAIN MASS 1, 968g Sorta looks like NWA869 to me. far from this Dean. Maybe this is not that big different from NWA869 as my NWA1906 from Mike NWA1906 :-D but this is for sure not the same meteorite. http://img106.exs.cx/img106/764/869and904.jpg one of the slices in that photo is a piece of 904 from the hupes, the other is a piece of 869 from dean. both great hunks of meteorite... wanna guess what one is what? __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Scarica gratuitamente MSN Toolbar! http://toolbar.msn.it/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA's
Yes, you are right, I should clarify that, to mean that you should find out who had the meteorite classified and if the piece you are buying came from that person and piece, or if it came from a pairing. Certainly other dealers and collectors get the meteorites legitimately and I would never try to keep them from offering them up for sale or trade. Mike - Original Message - From: John Birdsell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA's Hi Larry, Mike and list. Yes, at first this sounds like good advice, however this can lead to numerous problems as well. For instance I obtained a beautiful large chunk of NWA 482 in a trade with you Mike, and I know that numerous other dealers also have NWA 482 for sale. If we were only to purchase from the dealer who had the meteorite classified then this would pretty much eliminate such trades as all such traded pieces would become worthless. Another example is Dhofar 019. There must be 20 dealers all legitimacy selling this shergottite, which they themselves purchased wholesale. Now if everyone were only to buy from the individual that had Dhofar 019 classified (Serge), then Serge would be stuck with around a kilo of Martian rock with no market for it except for the retail market. He would be relegated to selling off 200 mg here and 300 mg there for the next forty years. This would make the acquisition of large, rare rocks retarded unless someone wanted to spend 40 years recouping their initial investment. The same can be said for hundreds of other meteorites. This also screws the collector who may want to sell one of his expensive meteorites to buy something else. If everyone only purchases from the person that originally had the meteorite classified then the resale value of these meteorites would be zero. I don't think that the collectors are going to appreciate paying top dollar for some expensive planetary meteorite and then being told that Oh yeah, by the way don't try to sell that expensive meteorite that we just sold you because you are not the one that had it classified and no one will buy it from you. This would really piss me off if I were the collector that had spent my hard earned money on an expensive and rare meteorite specimen. The best thing for dealers to do is to get their meteorites classified by a legitimate research institution, and to use their own numbers. If they want, they can say my NWA XXX is probably paired to NWA YYY or my NWA is paired to NWA ZZZ depending upon the provisional or final classification respectively. For those buyers that want to be sure they are getting properly classified and named specimens, they should keep track of which dealers do follow the Nom. Com. guidelines and avoid those that do not. Fortunately the overwhelming majority of dealers are honest and play by the rules. Unfortunately, there is a lot of BS being put on the meteorite-list by certain meteorite dealers of the my meteorite is better than yours sort. Don't be fooled by this non-sense either-it is just a transparent attempt at self promotion. There are a lot of very reputable meteorite dealers out there that do not engage in these types of sales tactics, and I would prefer to support these honest, reputable dealers. Cheers -John Arizona Skies Meteorites http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com Michael Farmer wrote: Larry, this is the problem I was getting at. I will tell you the simple solution, buy the meteorite from the dealer who had it classified, then there can be no error. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Larry Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 9:54 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA's Greetings List, I am but a small time collector (200 specimens). However, I cherish my small example of the evolution of the solar system. I am also an astronomy educator. I always include meteorites in my lectors AND I am always asked how do you know if it is really a meteorite? My answer: Irons are simple to recognize, and I explain the widmanstatten figure and how it forms. Stones on the other hand require analysis especially when chondrules (I explain chondrules) are not easily visible. In those cases it is very important to know your source. I have always made it clear that I only deal with reputable dealers. The posts of late have put a very large question in my mind about who is reputable. The saddest part is that many reputable dealers are being scamed by the Nomads. I prefer to collect the rarest of the rare. And this is where most of the scams are being made. My absolute certainty of the authenticity of my collection is now in question! I do not question that any piece in my collection is or isn't a meteorite, but that it is not the specimen type that I think it is. I have always been more than
[meteorite-list] Apology
I apologize for the language I used. Thank you, Stan - Very much appreciated !!! Getting ticked off is easy, offering an apology is much more difficult. Best regards, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA's
Michael, I do believe that Michael Cottingham and myself were the first Americans to buy in Morocco and announce it when we got home. We bought everything, even though you say that Jim Strope and I never claimed to have found anything in the early days. Michael, Jim Strope and I never found anything in Morocco in the early days or the late days. I have never found a meteorite in Morocco, nor claimed to. I buy everything there. Perhaps things will be different in about 40 hours though?. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Larry Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA's Hi Larry All, I read your post with some degree of sorrow, Larry, but many of us figured all this out years ago as the flood began and the stories came out. Some people I know won't collect any NWA material, others jump on everything they can lay their hands on, due to the relatively VERY low prices, while others are varying degrees of selective. I fall in the latter category as a collector (and as a dealer) - and at a relatively extreme end of conservative - BUT, the richness of material coming out of NWA is so great, I still have a major portion of my collection that is labeled NWA. Why? besides for MANY great specimens of total variety, and exceptionally low prices, I am convinced that AT LEAST 99% of the material is accurately typed. The only question is of paired meteorites - and this is due to a combination of the approach of the scientific community and to dealer greed. When NWA material first started many dealers claimed they were PERSONALLY finding the material, but refused to divulge coordinates to protect the fall from other dealers going there before they got all of it themselves. While this may have been true in a few isolated cases, the truth is the vast majority of falls were picked up by nomads and sold in a city market - the dealers only knew they came out of the desert. Dean Bessey was the first dealer I knew who openly admitted buying EVERYTHING from the nomads in the marketplace, but I don't remember Mike Farmer Jim Strope ever claiming to find anything there in the early days, either... though I think they actually did a little of that after becoming familiar with the area after several trips. (None of this is in reference to any particular dealer - but more in terms of the trend of behavior. I KNOW E.T. often went to the actual location of some falls - but they usually had names - like El Hammami - which he carried out of the mountains on a string of camels. A few of the pieces still show a rusted side where they lay against the sweating camel in gunny sacks!). Meanwhile, the scientists decided they couldn't pair ANY meteorites from NWA since there was never a location provided - therefore, each and every stone got its own find number or was unidentified. Dealers then started pairing the visually obvious (which was never 100% accurate, of course - but mostly). And here we are, today - we get some of the best, rarest and most zappy material ever at sometimes less than 10% of what we could have expected to pay before NWA opened up -but NOT 100% accuracy in identification - BUT, almost always true typology. Since we never knew exactly WHERE anything was from anyway - the answer I came up for myself was to limit my collection to OBVIOUSLY different falls of any given type. While this doesn't 100% guarantee I don't have differently numbered members of the same fall - it comes close. I also limit NWA primarily to the zappy looking or the very rare typology. Everyone has to decide how to deal with this, themselves - but this is part of the price of getting cool material dirt cheap. Best wishes, Michael on 11/24/04 8:54 AM, Larry Harrison at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings List, I am but a small time collector (200 specimens). However, I cherish my small example of the evolution of the solar system. I am also an astronomy educator. I always include meteorites in my lectors AND I am always asked how do you know if it is really a meteorite? My answer: Irons are simple to recognize, and I explain the widmanstatten figure and how it forms. Stones on the other hand require analysis especially when chondrules (I explain chondrules) are not easily visible. In those cases it is very important to know your source. I have always made it clear that I only deal with reputable dealers. The posts of late have put a very large question in my mind about who is reputable. The saddest part is that many reputable dealers are being scamed by the Nomads. I prefer to collect the rarest of the rare. And this is where most of the scams are being made. My absolute certainty of the authenticity of my collection is now in question! I do not question that any piece in my collection is or isn't a
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA's
Yes, I really didnt mean it in that way, like I just posted, sorry for the confusion, of course people sell lots to other dealers to resale, but they need to keep accurate documentation perhaps. Mike - Original Message - From: Rob Wesel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Larry Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 1:44 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA's Well that's what the Hupes are doing, trying to get there name in perpetuity on every piece, owning the market on it, create distrust on the buyers part. That model works great Mike until you sell your first large lot to someone who may want to resell or trade some...at which point your statement screws your customers. Excellent marketing. Sorry I don't have a better answer Larry, we are being enlightened as we go. Rob Wesel -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Larry Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 9:40 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA's Larry, this is the problem I was getting at. I will tell you the simple solution, buy the meteorite from the dealer who had it classified, then there can be no error. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Larry Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 9:54 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA's Greetings List, I am but a small time collector (200 specimens). However, I cherish my small example of the evolution of the solar system. I am also an astronomy educator. I always include meteorites in my lectors AND I am always asked how do you know if it is really a meteorite? My answer: Irons are simple to recognize, and I explain the widmanstatten figure and how it forms. Stones on the other hand require analysis especially when chondrules (I explain chondrules) are not easily visible. In those cases it is very important to know your source. I have always made it clear that I only deal with reputable dealers. The posts of late have put a very large question in my mind about who is reputable. The saddest part is that many reputable dealers are being scamed by the Nomads. I prefer to collect the rarest of the rare. And this is where most of the scams are being made. My absolute certainty of the authenticity of my collection is now in question! I do not question that any piece in my collection is or isn't a meteorite, but that it is not the specimen type that I think it is. I have always been more than excited about the immense number of new and rare meteorites coming out of the Sahara. If not for these finds I could never afford as many representations of the early solar system or of the achondrites of lessor differentiated bodies. I am crushed, uncertain and totally confused! What to do? Since I am not a big time buyer, my reluctance to purchase further NWA's will not hurt any of you. However, I feel that I am Mr. Average. If this mess curbs my desire to purchase more meteorites, I assure you it is doing the same to many more. This is the saddest moment in my 20 years of meteorite collecting. Thanks for letting me vent, Harrison __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Happy Thanksgiving!!!
Hi List members, everywhere! I know Germany or other countries are not celebrating Thanksgiving, neverless, we all can give thanks anytime of the year! I am thankful for having this list, even though it is quite time consuming at times and full of unrelated, private posts that everyone seems to like to share with the list members. ;-) Happy Thanksgiving from sunny San Diego! Sternengruss, Moni From: Dave Schultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy Thanksgiving!!! Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 13:05:40 -0800 (PST) Just wanted to wish all of my fellow American list members a Happy and safe Thanksgiving. Let`s all try to put our differences away for awhile and relax and enjoy this time of year with family and friends!!! Dave __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Bad water? What's up.
I am not sure what is happening on the list and the meteorite world, but everyone needs to take a chill pill. I will be in Paris this weekend, and Morocco thereafter, out in the desert on a meteorite hunt, for the next week. Something has been found that is spectacular, I have some sitting on my desk, and will be announcing it soon. Anyone wanting to buy something from me to send to Europe, do so today or tomorrow, and I will send from Paris Saturday, no customs fees or delays. I am also told that a meteorite exhibition is on in Paris on the 3, 4 and 5 of December. Does anyone know anything about it? Michael Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA's, Dealers, Science, NomCom
Hi Doug and thanks for the interesting idea. I suppose that could work
if every dealer kept perfect records of every piece, slice, part slice,
and part, part slice that they ever bought or sold. The question then
would be, who would be the Meteorite Auditors to track down the few
offending dealers that may decide to fake a meteorite ID number, say
NWA 123,9,25,3,2 and track it through all the hands that is has passed
and sub-divisions that it has been cut into to verify that it is
really NWA 123,9,25,3,2? What happens if someone along the chain of
custody accidentally transposed the 3 and the 2 in the ID number, and
this got passed down the line? Some end recipient could then be accused
by the Meteorite Auditors of faking the piece after an audit exposed
the problem. Who is going to spend their time trying to resolve this
inevitable issues? I can just see our friends on the Meteorite-List
bickering over whether they have proper claim to NWA 123,9,25, 3,2 or
NWA 123,9,25,2,3!
Cheers
-John
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello John, Larry, Mike, Michael, List,
I want to respond to John's point of view on Mike's dramatic suggestion that we acquire
NWA's only from the dealer that classified it.
Mike - good post. My only wincing is that the dealer doesn't classify it. A
Met Soc approved researcher does mi cuate. I know you know that but it won't hurt to
remind you, I think, with my respects, as always to you for a bang-up job. I am in
agreement with the spirit of your post and with that of John's with has me thinking you
are both way too right, extreme and impractical. What you have done IMHO is make a
perfect combined argument to get all the dealers off their alleged lazy and greedy duffs
to do the right thing.
John - Your post was good as usual, but more jaded than I am accustomed to coming from
you. This Trust argument alternative holds no water personally since folks
like me and I assume like Larry are not interested in doing credit and background checks
on dealers. And without folks like me and I assume like Larry all you dealers will be
soon stuck in a pyramid scheme with each other on Meteorite pricing which everyone's
free-for-all neglect of scientific protocol has created and sales have happily fomented.
So Listen, please and stop blaming the nomads gangs (wow that was a laugher)
or Habibi or Hupe or whoever and distancing yourselves - this is a collective problem,
period.
John, other than the trust monopoly exclusive club smelling thing you
suggest, I think you have not added your usual eye-opening value to Mike's post. The
answer [I think] here is to add the stone and fragment numbers to conserve the
classification process. Like NWA 6000, 2, 4 {...}. And keep a copy of the original
classification card. In this hypothetical exaple case, the NWA 6000 stone #2 slice 4. I
stole the idea from Dr. Grossman and NASA curators. It works. Then if you cut the slice
in half and give your partner the second half, she has NWA 6000,2,4,2. Don't make this
confusing. sheesh, it is just adding a number and only when necessary to your little
piece of heaven, not cataloging the entire stone.
Larry, let me give you the reason I think no one has done this. It isn't some far flung
idea - there is a great scientific precedent now and for years. My opinion is that
meteorite dealers just don't want to deal with the paperwork. What a
PATHETIC excuse of theirs. They know enough to know who they bought the piece from and
how much they sold it to you for. And the tax authority probably requires it anyway,
too, but let's let the tax authority police them on that. The other half is that they
don't want you to know where they got it from. Another pathetic excuse to sacrifice the
science you buy for their blindly greedy benefits.
The elementary school library has the Dewey Decimal system, what a great model,
and first graders can handle it, but not us. Ho Hum. I bet a German cat could
handle it. It is the same no-brainer thing.
So no one is asking from John for his new esquisite Sahara iron these numbers, and he won't send them to you
(or will he:)). So let's not just blame the dealers, but take our ownership as well. No more
I don't know what to do, it's a meteorite jungle out there. Just a courteous question to the
dealer. Can you tell me the fragment number I am buying? If they squeal on that one you know
you are dealing with a pig. If they are honest you're not buying a pig in a poke.
Dealers, well now that I'm in boiling water, how is this: We are not
interested in your name or your competitors original card. It should just be the MetSoc
approved researcher's card. OK scientists, taxonomists, Jeff and committe members. Here
is your chance to shine...can you suggest a simple card filled out by the researcher when
classifying all specimens of a #?. No dealers need apply. How handsome my collection
of 50 meteoritic scraps (and one nice
[meteorite-list] Seismic Blasts Aim To Get 'Hole' Story of Chesapeake Bay's Creation
http://www.bayjournal.com/article.cfm?article=2413 Seismic blasts aim to get 'hole' story of Bay's creation By Joanne Kimberlin Virginian-Pilot November 2004 Crickets thrummed in the dark mist. A harvest moon glowed orange in the heavens. The earth moved. Thirty-five times. It shuddered repeatedly as scientists detonated a 20-mile string of underground explosives along Virginia's Eastern Shore this October. The concussions, bouncing back from far below, will help to map the most detailed profile yet of an ancient wound in the planet's crust: the 35-million-year-old Chesapeake Bay impact crater. Pushing the button was the easy part; reaching countdown required a diplomatic endeavor worthy of the United Nations. Scores of local landowners had to open their gates to dozens of scholarly visitors - a remarkable consensus in a community that doesn't cotton much to intrusion. One by one, residents yielded to the common good - and to the long-winded, high-wattage, caffeine-powered zeal of a wiry scientist from the Shenandoah Valley, the man who loves the crater the most. David Powars was one of the first scientists convinced of its existence - a notion many of his colleagues had scoffed at for years. Now confirmed by a battery of drill samples and other tests, the crater will be investigated deeper than ever next fall, when a $1.5 million core hole punches 7,000 feet into its mysteries. No one knows whether an asteroid or a comet gouged the one-mile-deep, 56-mile-wide crater beneath the Bay. But judging by the damage it caused, the meteorite slammed into the planet at about 76,000 mph. The explosion, equal to 10 trillion tons of TNT, wiped out life for miles around, creating the largest impact crater in the United States and the sixth-largest in the world. Thousand-foot-tall tidal waves likely topped parts of the Blue Ridge Mountains. Concealed by the Bay and filled in the passing eons with rock and sediment, the crater wasn't discovered until the mid-1980s. Scientists now suspect it is the culprit behind a host of modern-day concerns, from the region's shortage of fresh groundwater to its slow sink into the sea. Answers could lie inside layers brought up in the drill tube. A sort of seismic ultrasound, created by the recent blasts, will determine the bull's-eye for the drill bit. To get the best picture, an alphabet soup of about two dozen 'ologists'-experts in rocks, fossils, atmosphere, outer space and more - descended on the Shore. The team laid a line of 70-foot-deep shot holes that stretches from the center of the crater, located beneath the town of Cape Charles, VA, to its northeastern rim, near Nassawadox, VA. About 700 seismographs, tuned to record the results, had to be poked into the soil every 50 yards along the line. All were on private property - often co-owned by a web of relatives. Powars, as the point man of the operation, began knocking on doors in March, spinning his spiel, trying to win access to the land he needed. I'd get one person's OK and then find out I also had to get it from their cousins or their brothers or their in-laws, Powars said. I bet I wound up talking to 150 people. Some of them were scattered across the country. One was in a mental institution. Let's just say that one was interesting. Fortunately for Powars, talking is among the things he does best. When he's excited, as he is about the crater, his words gush in a nonstop stream that's almost legendary. We all love David, said Greg Gohn, Powar's boss at the U.S. Geological Survey. But you just have to walk away sometimes. His chatter proved effective with landowners. Many nodded immediately while others required some courting. Powars put in plenty of hours perched on living room sofas, answering questions. By the time it was done, I was adopted, Powars said. People were feeding me meals. In the end, only one family resisted his enthusiasm - a rejection that will leave a mile-long gap in the seismic profile. For the most part, though, meteor mania blossomed as word spread. Almost 100 people attended a September meeting Powars held in Cape Charles. Tom Saunders, a project manager at the town's new Bay Creek development, was impressed. You can't get 100 people to come to a meeting in Cape Charles if you're giving away money, he said. Saunders would like to see sleepy Cape Charles benefit from its status as the crater's ground zero. There has been talk of building an interpretive center to draw tourists. Mayor Frank Lewis isn't convinced that an underwater hole is marketable. Seems like it'd be hard to start an industry around something no one can see, he said. As for the scientists, they're delighted to be the first to explore the anatomy of a crater so well-preserved by the blanket of the Bay. Exhausted by weeks spent tromping through farm fields and bug-swarmed swamps, scientists were thrilled to finally close in on October's detonation. Powars, functioning on too little sleep and too much coffee
[meteorite-list] Martian Retrospective on the Mars Rovers
http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=modloadname=Newsfile=articlesid=1314mode=threadorder=0thold=0 Martian Retrospective Summary (Nov 24, 2004): As the rovers try to survive the dead of martian winter, what do readers want to know about their first nine-months on the red planet? Questions and answers range from how long the rovers may last to what it's like to live four months on martian time. Martian Retrospective Astrobiology Magazine Readers of Astrobiology Magazine frequently send in questions regarding stories, but no series has attracted as many inquiries as the progress of the twin rovers, Spirit and Opportunity, on Mars. To be responsive, the questions have been assembled along with paraphrased answers culled from various mission interviews, published reports and images to illustrate the challenges and thrills of exploring our neighboring planet. As the rovers head into the dead of martian winter, activity levels are being scaled down temporarily, so this snapshot of the mission will likely prevail until cold weather breaks in late December. Question (Q): How long will the rovers last? Answer (A): A mechanical breakdown can be worked around, things like a stuck wheel. An electronic glitch cannot be planned for. That kind of glitch can happen anytime and also shutdown the rover's dead. There are single points of failure in the electronics. Otherwise the dust buildup on the solar panels is the remaining limit. The rovers are in the dead of winter now, particularly at Gusev from September to December this year. If the rovers survive the winter, then there are simulations that take the rovers out to 600-700 sols. Q: With three successful airbag landings, should that mode be the first choice for future missions? A: There is a mass limit to what airbags can cushion on Mars. If it is not mass-limited on the next lander, then that will likely be near the limit of what Q: What is the chemistry of Opportunity showing? A: The Meridiani plains stood out from orbit as a region the size of Oklahoma that was iron-rich with the often water-formed mineral, hematite. Opportunity found that concentration as predicted. One chemical surprise was very high levels of magnesium sulfates (Epsom salts). At places, the Epsom salts compose 40% by weight, which makes some of the outcrops nearly all salt. That tells a story of water. Q: But how much water and in what forms? A: The particular ratios between bromine/chlorine with layered deposits supports first flowing water, and secondly evaporative pooling. What one sees with flowing water is a feature called cross-bedding in the geology, but the chemistry is mainly that chlorine will appear deeper in a layer than bromine when water evaporates. That is what happens at the Dead Sea on earth for instance. Q: What is the geology of Opportunity showing? A: Cross-bedding. Flowing water leads to these inclined layers, like smiley faces where the sand pushes forward in fits and starts, eventually cementing into layers that are not parallel to each other. Q: What are the ages or epochs when water might have flowed at Opportunity? A: One can only know relative, not absolute ages. One can say where there is intact stratigraphy that the deeper material is older than the top layers. If one knew the annual cycles, one might estimate some age like tree rings of growth or sediments in a canyon, but there is no way to calibrate that cycle on Mars. So no one really has any idea of absolute ages. To get absolute ages, a sample return is needed (probably for isotope studies on sulfur or other elements). Q: What was the uniqueness of landing in a crater (Eagle) at the Opportunity site? A: Being 20 or so feet from bedrock on the lip of the crater. Not having to drive all across the plains to find intact stratigraphy. Q: What are the blueberries? A: They are thought to be concretions, or where briny water percolates through a softer rock and buds up from a nucleus into these tiny balls. These are actually smaller than blueberries you might find in a muffin, but they generally populate rock cracks and voids. As the soft rock weathers, the harder blueberries fall out and roll down a slope or are blown across the plains. Q: Are there different shapes to the blueberries? A: There are the round ones, mainly. But there are also twins, where a budding concretion comes out of another blueberry. And then there are striped ones, marked with a division like a croquet ball. The strip always runs parallel to the lines of the underlying crack where the blueberry is budding out from. Q: What was unique about Bounce rock? A: That is the only rock of any size on the Meridiani plains, perhaps for kilometers in the otherwise flat area as far as the cameras can see. It was called Bounce rock because the rover's airbags hit it and changed direction to land in Eagle crater. The chemistry of Bounce is a near
[meteorite-list] MP Wants To Have More Answers on Sonic Boom Above England
http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=modloadname=Newsfile=articlesid=1314mode=threadorder=0thold=0 MP wants to have more answers on sonic boom EDWARD FOSS EDP24 (United Kingdom) 24 November 2004 A Norfolk MP has pledged to seek more answers about the recent sonic boom above the county. The loud explosion rocked large parts of north and east Norfolk on November 8, shaking windows and startling people from Sheringham to Halvergate. It also sparked fears of an explosion or an incident at the Bacton gas site. A week later, North Norfolk MP Norman Lamb was told by ministers that the culprit behind the bang was a French fighter plane. The Mirage was operating in a military range over the North Sea about 18 miles off the coast when it caused the sonic boom. Ministry of Defence officials had originally been reluctant to confirm the nationality of the perpetrator to the media, confirming only that it was not British. Mr Lamb is now seeking more detail about the incident, such as whether foreign pilots have to stick to the same rules as domestic pilots when flying near the UK coast and what further action has been taken after the MoD's investigation. The MoD has been critical of this event, said Mr Lamb, but I am still not clear on whether or not regulations have been breached. And if they have, what is being done about it? These are all legitimate questions. A sonic boom is created by pressure waves from aircraft travelling faster than sound. An MoD spokesman said previously it went to great lengths to prevent British aircraft making them and did not take kindly to other people doing it. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] New goodies
I have some very rare material in the works right now, should be ready for sale in two weeks. Meteorites which type collectors MUST have. So count your pennies now, save your Christmas money, I will have some meteorites for sale as soon as I get the final data. Michael Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Happy Thanksgiving!!!
Hi Dave, The most reasonable post I have seen in weeks. Happy Thanksgiving to you as well! -Walter - - Original Message - From: Dave Schultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 4:05 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy Thanksgiving!!! Just wanted to wish all of my fellow American list members a Happy and safe Thanksgiving. Let`s all try to put our differences away for awhile and relax and enjoy this time of year with family and friends!!! Dave __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] DEAL of the century
IF, and that is a big IF, you believe it is real http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemcategory=3239item=2288601328rd=1 But, before you bid, be sure to compare it to the real thing... http://209.238.151.128/nwa998.htm Best Wishes to all for a great Thanksgiving, Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] RE: NWA's HAPPY TURKEY DAY!
Greetings list, Thank you all for the insightful responses. I guess in the back of my mind I always new that this type of problem was certain to surface. Of all the responses, I like best Doug's suggestion for aMetSoc approved researcher's card. I hope something is done so that this meteoritical epoch in history will be remembered/recorded as a purely positive time of meteorite recovery. The massive influx of material has to dwindle with time. Who will be left standing, and what taste will be left in the mouth of the public? Lets hope its not camel dung. Thanks everyone, Harrison P.S. Thanks Michael for the awesome Thanksgiving humor! __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD - New L3.7 - Beautiful
Dear list members, For those of you who like new meteorites, or at least, newly classified ones not yet offered, I would like to announce another beautiful chondrite I just received classification on. It is NWA 2377 and is simply gorgeous. It has nice wall-to-wall chondrules and an occasional large inclusion making this meteorite very striking. If interested, check out seller, naturesvault on eBay. As always, or at least as long as the funnel is full, I will be announcing new and exciting meteorites every week either through meteoritelab or through naturesvault. I have another new achondrite to announce next week. Here is a direct link to one of the specimens: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=2288792409ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT Best regards and have a Happy Thanksgiving, Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection naturesvault (eBay) [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMCA 2185 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Alleged Picture of Meteorite Photographed Hitting Earth
In the thread Meteorite Photographed Hitting The Earth in Australia? at: http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2004-November/146190.html , Mike Groetz asked: Good Afternoon- If someone finds a link to the photo - would you please post it? For whatever a person might think it is worth, the picture can found at: Meteorite 'photographed' hitting Earth By Nigel Adlam, news.com.au, November 24, 2004 http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,11483286%255E13762,00.html http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,3600,398650,00.jpg Yours, Paul Baton Rouge, LA __ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Alleged Picture of Meteorite Photographed HittingEarth
I think this is a load of crap, the piece is obviously very small, and falling at a very low angle. There is no possible way a meteorite that small could come down at that angle, it would have reached terminal velocity and should be falling strait down. Am I correct? Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Paul H [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 6:29 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Alleged Picture of Meteorite Photographed HittingEarth In the thread Meteorite Photographed Hitting The Earth in Australia? at: http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2004-November/146190.html , Mike Groetz asked: Good Afternoon- If someone finds a link to the photo - would you please post it? For whatever a person might think it is worth, the picture can found at: Meteorite 'photographed' hitting Earth By Nigel Adlam, news.com.au, November 24, 2004 http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,11483286%255E13762,00.html http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,3600,398650,00.jpg Yours, Paul Baton Rouge, LA __ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] RE: HAPPY TURKEY DAY!
May you all be surrounded by good people and good food tomorrow. Take care driving also. Cheers Kirk... - Original Message - From: Larry Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 4:48 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] RE: NWA's HAPPY TURKEY DAY! Greetings list, Thank you all for the insightful responses. I guess in the back of my mind I always new that this type of problem was certain to surface. Of all the responses, I like best Doug's suggestion for aMetSoc approved researcher's card. I hope something is done so that this meteoritical epoch in history will be remembered/recorded as a purely positive time of meteorite recovery. The massive influx of material has to dwindle with time. Who will be left standing, and what taste will be left in the mouth of the public? Lets hope its not camel dung. Thanks everyone, Harrison P.S. Thanks Michael for the awesome Thanksgiving humor! __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Alleged Picture of Meteorite PhotographedHittingEarth
You're right. It would have been falling nearly vertically, subject only to some drift from the wind. If it had still been traveling at 30,000 mph as the article suggests, it would have been way bigger; a huge fireball, sonic booms, all sorts of stuff like that which would hardly have gone unnoticed. And a typical fall, which of course could have been captured on a camera, isn't going to produce an explosion when it hits. I guess the light bulb might have burst, creating something like an explosion. Still, there are just too many things about this story that are problematic. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Paul H [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alleged Picture of Meteorite PhotographedHittingEarth I think this is a load of crap, the piece is obviously very small, and falling at a very low angle. There is no possible way a meteorite that small could come down at that angle, it would have reached terminal velocity and should be falling strait down. Am I correct? Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] CR Chondrites
Hello Bernd and list. I am just curious about CR's because I read something about them having metal inside the chondrules. I was wondering if CR's were the only meteorite with this feature. I am not implying my meteorite is a CR, but I had thought it was weird because the white inclusions were full of metal. Is this common for inclusions? Would the metal get inside an inclusion the same way it would a chondrule? (see link if you don't remember the meteorite) http://www.geocities.com/alosthawker/MVC-032S.JPG Thanks, Tom peregrineflier IMCA 6168 http://www.frontiernet.net/~peregrineflier/Peregrineflier.htm - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 12:19 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] CR Chondrites Hello Tom and List, I've told you at least once before and I am telling you once again: Please, stop imparting a feeling of inferiority to yourself and don't keep telling the world that you are what you call stupid. Just think of your falcons - they are proud, majestic creatures even though they don't know anything about meteorites. Ignorance is one thing, stupidity another and it has many different facets as we all know so well ;-) As for CR meteorites, here is a slightly shortened version from NORTON O.R. (1998) Rocks From Space II, p. 195: CR chondrites ... contain about 10 % by weight iron-nickel metal and iron sulfide. The metal content is the most easily distinguished characteristic. The metal is found in the fine-grained matrix and as inclusions in the chondrules. Roughly 50 percent of the meteorite is relatively large chondrules (0.027-inch average diameter) and chondrule fragments. O.R. Norton's descriptive explanation is not *too* technical and good enough as a first approach. I would only add that more often than not CR chondrules are surrounded by a metallic rim, in other words they are armored. One might also add that, although they do not look carbonaceous at first sight, they are considered members of this group because their compositions are similar to those of the carbonaceous chondrites. Best wishes, Bernd (still in love with his gorgeous, cut 7.23-gram CR2 crusted endpiece purchased from Dean in May of 2003) __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Explain this inclusion
Hello list, How would you explain this inclusion? In the center of the picture at the link below is a white inclusion with a gray inclusion inside. The gray inclusion has a dark thin outline. Pretty weird. http://www.geocities.com/chepper4/MVC-013F.JPG Thanks, Tom peregrineflier IMCA 6168 http://www.frontiernet.net/~peregrineflier/Peregrineflier.htm __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Explain this inclusion
Tom, interesting, lookes like a deformed chondrule, shock melted maybe? Mike - Original Message - From: Tom AKA James Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Explain this inclusion Hello list, How would you explain this inclusion? In the center of the picture at the link below is a white inclusion with a gray inclusion inside. The gray inclusion has a dark thin outline. Pretty weird. http://www.geocities.com/chepper4/MVC-013F.JPG Thanks, Tom peregrineflier IMCA 6168 http://www.frontiernet.net/~peregrineflier/Peregrineflier.htm __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] CR Chondrites
Tom, that is a common trait of CR meteorites, want to see, check these babies out. http://www.meteoriteguy.com/NWA801.htm As you can see in many of the pieces, the actual chondrules are metal rich, so this must have formed in a very interesting way. Imagine how the cloud must have looked with all that metal and silicates condensing. The CR meteorites are among the most beautiful meteorites out there. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Tom AKA James Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] CR Chondrites Hello Bernd and list. I am just curious about CR's because I read something about them having metal inside the chondrules. I was wondering if CR's were the only meteorite with this feature. I am not implying my meteorite is a CR, but I had thought it was weird because the white inclusions were full of metal. Is this common for inclusions? Would the metal get inside an inclusion the same way it would a chondrule? (see link if you don't remember the meteorite) http://www.geocities.com/alosthawker/MVC-032S.JPG Thanks, Tom peregrineflier IMCA 6168 http://www.frontiernet.net/~peregrineflier/Peregrineflier.htm - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 12:19 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] CR Chondrites Hello Tom and List, I've told you at least once before and I am telling you once again: Please, stop imparting a feeling of inferiority to yourself and don't keep telling the world that you are what you call stupid. Just think of your falcons - they are proud, majestic creatures even though they don't know anything about meteorites. Ignorance is one thing, stupidity another and it has many different facets as we all know so well ;-) As for CR meteorites, here is a slightly shortened version from NORTON O.R. (1998) Rocks From Space II, p. 195: CR chondrites ... contain about 10 % by weight iron-nickel metal and iron sulfide. The metal content is the most easily distinguished characteristic. The metal is found in the fine-grained matrix and as inclusions in the chondrules. Roughly 50 percent of the meteorite is relatively large chondrules (0.027-inch average diameter) and chondrule fragments. O.R. Norton's descriptive explanation is not *too* technical and good enough as a first approach. I would only add that more often than not CR chondrules are surrounded by a metallic rim, in other words they are armored. One might also add that, although they do not look carbonaceous at first sight, they are considered members of this group because their compositions are similar to those of the carbonaceous chondrites. Best wishes, Bernd (still in love with his gorgeous, cut 7.23-gram CR2 crusted endpiece purchased from Dean in May of 2003) __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!
Hi EveryoneWe just wanted to wish everyone a happy thanksgiving and a safe Holiday! Special thanks to Michael Blood for sharing his thanksgiving parrot joke ;-) Cheers -John Dawn __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] CR Chondrites
I believe CR chondrites have a relatively high O2 concentration and combined with the metal rich aspect, would the brownish orange coloration be due to oxidation? -Walter __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
