Re: [meteorite-list] It was intuition ? OK ?
Martin A. wrote: PS: And if you don't know any dealers yet, buy strictly IMCA. Hi Martin, Friends, I strictly disagree. IMCA membership can't proactively guarantee character as much as it would be nice to want to believe that. By the time you would start a grievance process through the IMCA, you've already lost and given up on meteorites. My advice is, if you don't know any dealers, buy from a collector who does very little dealing. That can be lots of fun too. A collector can have infinite reserviors of patience and enthusiasm. A busy dealer can be too worried about getting to bed in time before answering all of the innocent email questions, to even write his friend or old customers with important answers. -or- The money won't burn a hole in your pocket, either: so if you don't know any dealers - get to know them first and you'll find the buying experience much more fun. Make them educate you and reward them with your business. An IMCA logo to a businessman is what a degree is to a scientist: what he or she makes of it. Make everone work for your money: you did. Anything else is disrespectful to all of those honest people out there. BTW, the vast majority of the material is sourced from non-IMCA members, a fact that should be kept in mind by all. The IMCA directors are pretty good about not insulting the non-IMCA list members when it comes to discussing ethics. I think they realize the limitations of a general interest group and the policing function is not the strongest point for the IMCA. This situation is much too complicated to caracature it that way. The IMCA logo is not a Union Card. A dealer can sell one million dollars and pays $20 for his logo. A collector can sell five cents, and still pays the same, which may challenge the sense of equity for some... Best wishes and Great Health, Doug -Original Message- From: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 12:51 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It was intuition ? OK ? I know Jay, but I can't explicitly write names here, I'm a dealer and some could misunderstand it and think, that I would pursue a certain intention. So I rather write about barbers and surgeons... In fact one could express it also less complicate with the simple, but nevertheless true words of my uncle Alex Seidel: Know your dealer. :-) Martin PS: And if you don't know any dealers yet, buy strictly IMCA. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Wendy Piatek Gesendet: Samstag, 12. April 2008 18:40 An: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Martin Altmann Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It was intuition ? OK ? Martin -- the problem they are all referring to is the questionable practices of Bob Evans. I believe he has sold 5-6 different meteorites (that we know of) --that might be imposters--those being-- Zulu Queen---he stated he procured it from UCLA---on contact they denied this. It is all in IOM and Schwade Bialystok Plymouth Claretin Andover--he won't even say where he got it. Almost all in USNM and Jim and me. He does not have the pull to do exchanges with most major institutions. Ensisheim Think of all the collectors who received Ensisheim on ebay from him and it is really most likely St. Severin. Either that or he has uncovered another stone!!! There needs to be action done against this guy. He never responded to my inquiries on where he came up with these. And yet he has the nerve to bring up other suspected scammers on ebay. I hate hypocrites. I hate scammers. My vote is to ostracize him until he comes clean. Kick him off the list. Get a website entitled Suspicious Meteorites Sold By Bob Evans AKA Maccers... . Encourage all who have bought specimens from him to take him up on his offer and ask for their money back. Since my email to the list several weeks ago which Bob never replied either publicly or privately I have had quite a few listers write with stories of his shady business practices. One lister in fact stated he has a 5K judgemnt against Bob. All these complaints need to be brought out in public and perhaps the Illinois Attorney General notiified. Too many times scam artists of which he appears to be can continue to prosper due to everyone remaining silent. I look forward to other input. I know my stance is quite intense but there is quite a bit at stake for my collection as well as this field. I think the lister who felt IMCA needs to get involved is right on as well. I look forward to their input/comments. Best, Jay - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It was intuition ? OK ? Hi too, some thoughts... Of course it would be desirable if a cut of a meteorite could be tracked and would be
[meteorite-list] Norton's RFS Hardcover Help
Mike Bandli writes: ...hardcover edition of Norton's RFS...scan the Bruderheim image on page 164 ...so I can compare it to my specimen. Anne writes: The picture of the Bruderheim on page 164 is exactly the same. Hello All, That's right, the pictures on p. 164 are exactly the same but Martin Horejsi was referring to pages 188 and 189 when he wrote: the picture of Bruderheim on page 189 looked a little too rich in chondrules. This is, of course, because that picture is not Bruderheim at all but likely Moorabie, an L3 from Australia. How do I know this? Because the exact same picture appears on page 188 with the presumed correct caption. The 2002 hardcover edition has Moorabie on p. 188 and Bruderheim on p. 189, whereas RFS II (1998) has Moorabie on both pages (whilst the caption on p. 189 says Bruderheim, Alberta, Canada). Best wishes, Bernd __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Monthly Favourite
http://www.meteorites.com.au/favourite/march2008.html Cheers, Jeff __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 13, 2008
Very Nice Jimmy. I'd Like One Of those coins Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 12:57 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 13, 2008 http://www.rocksfromspace.org/April_13_2008.html **It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp0030002850) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Japan Times article: Life and left-handed meteorites 9APR08
Wednesday, April 9, 2008 http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fe20080409rh.html NATURAL SELECTIONS Life and left-handed meteorites By ROWAN HOOPER wonder if Empress Gensho, who ruled Japan for nine years and died in 748, had something against left-handed people. The Willamette Meteorite on display at the Rose Center for Earth and Space on Feb. 19, 2000, at New York's American Museum of Natural History. AP PHOTO It was Gensho who decreed that kimono should be worn migi-mae (right side over the left at the front) rather than hidari-mae (left over right), as was the style until then. Now only the dead have hidari-mae kimono, so it's not done to wear one like that. (Once when I wore a yukata the wrong way, a Japanese colleague said to me, Are you dead? It took me a while before I understood what he was on about.) The kimono custom comes to mind because I was reading this week about how the building blocks of life amino acids are predominantly left-handed. In the case of kimono-wearing, it was Empress Gensho who, long ago, caused the dominant form to be one particular side over the other. This was just chance; she might have decreed it the other way around. With amino acids, it seems to have been meteorites which fell to Earth billions of years ago that decreed it. Chains of amino acids make up the proteins found in all forms of life on Earth, from plants to people. The funny thing about amino acids is that they come in two versions, a left and right form, just as hands come in a left and right form. Anything that is not identical to its mirror image in this way is called chiral. Almost all living things have left-handed amino acids, known as L amino acids (some bacteria have right-handed, or D, amino acids). Change L-type for D-type, and life would grind to a halt. So why do most amino acids come in the left-handed form? The immediate answer is: because they arrived from outer space like that. This week, Ronald Breslow, of Columbia University, New York, described his evidence for this idea. Amino acids can form spontaneously wherever you get the right chemicals. When this happens in space say on asteroids equal amounts of left- and right-handed forms are made. But asteroids roam across great distances of interstellar space. As the rocks pass neutron stars, the light rays from the stars reach the amino acids, and that triggers the selective destruction of one form of amino acid. The stars emit circularly polarized light. This means that in one direction, the light is polarized to the right. Conversely, 180 degrees in the other direction, light rays are left-polarized. As a meteor tumbles toward Earth, it is bathed in an excess of one of the two polarized rays. Breslow has confirmed in experiments that circularly polarized light selectively destroys one chiral form of amino acids over the other. The end result is that meteors landing on Earth have a 5 to 10 percent excess of L-type amino acids. Evidence of the left-handed bias has been found on the surfaces of meteorites that have crashed into Earth even within the last 100 years. But a mere 5 to 10 percent bias doesn't explain why the vast majority of living things on Earth use L-type amino acids. So Breslow has gone on to simulate what happens after the dust settles following a meteor bombardment. Imagine Earth 4 billion years ago. It's a rock covered in a warm soup of basic chemicals, including equal amounts of both types of amino acids but without any life on it yet. Then in comes a meteor carrying a payload of extraterrestrial acids. What Breslow has found is that when the amino acids on the meteor mixed with those in the primordial soup, the cosmic amino acids directly transferred their chirality to the native Earthling amino acids. This experiment is the first to demonstrate that handedness transfer like a cosmic version of Empress Gensho's decree occurs under conditions found on prelife Earth. This means that there was a slight excess of left-handed amino acids. Breslow has also shown how left-handers came to dominate. In warm conditions, such as those found in deserts, water will evaporate and leave the amino acids crystallized. As this happens, the left- and right-handed forms bind together, leaving behind increasing amounts of L-type amino acid in the remaining water. Eventually, life got going, and the amino acid in excess became ubiquitous as it was used selectively by living organisms. Everything that is going on on Earth occurred because the meteorites happened to land here. But they are obviously landing in other places, said Breslow. If there is another planet that has the water and all of the things that are needed for life, you should be able to get the same process rolling. Some scientists have suggested that an intricately linked process leads from the predominance of L-type amino acids to the fact that we process language and motor control in the left hemisphere of the brain. This could
Re: [meteorite-list] It was intuition ? OK ?
Hi Doug, you forgot the basic point. It's not about that Non-IMCA people, would be in any respect not honourable people, nor about a separation in a club or cliquism, but while raging against the system, you have to see, how people get in contact for their first time with meteorites! Do you know how sick and tired I am of telling to newcomers, sorry your Nantan is no meteorite. Well, your Sikhote is called a shrapnel it has no orientation, your NWA has desert varnish, not fusion crust, hmm I can't help you, the restoration of your Campo slice would cost more, than you have paid for it... and so on? Doug, first of all your dialectic - dealers here, collectors there is wrong. The utmost people which appear selling meteorites are collectors! They're doing it for fun, to enlarge their collections, they are amateurs in the meaning of the word (latin amare - to love), furthermore others who frequently selling meteorites and which you would count to the dealers, do it not for living, and finally the professionals they are rather an exception, - and of course the professional dealers are almost all collectors by their own. That mixture you will find of course represented in the member structure of IMCA too. So. And listen, most collectors and of course most of the full-time dealers feel a responsibility to maintain our hobby, to popularize it and to generate new collectors. (Indeed some of the full-time dealers to a higher extend as some collectors, they see it as a part of their profession, and of course as a factor of their business). So they are growing new collectors and guide them. Man, in former times I had to spend 2/3 of my working time in coaching beginners, in introducing rookies into our hobby and to explain them the facets of meteorites, to recommend, what and where to buy - or in answering question of people, who didn't know nothing about meteorites. All independently on whether they intended to buy or not. (and I'm glad and happy for the relief, that I can send them now to the new fora in web, where their questions will be answered too). Look, why does a dealer like Farmer, travelling all the time around, organizing and selling fat museum chunks, does have tiny Gaos for a few dollars in his assortment? Why do the Hupes, running around with planetary fullslices, take the time, to cut and to polish hundreds of micromounts, why do the Chladnis spend many weeks per year tinkering their Moon and Mars boxes? Why does Eduardo create sets, with a booklet and a tiny meteorite. And so on. Because they want to bring as many people as possible to that fascinating hobby. How do people come in contact with meteorites? They do know nothing about them in beginning. They watch something in TV, or they find a meteorite exhibited in their planetarium, ect... and then they are going into the internet. And there they hit a variety of meteorites and offers. Doug - if they even don't know the dealers yet, how should it work, that they know a collector? Especially when dealers are more present in web, then most collectors? No, firstly they hit the market in most cases, in finding meteorites offered on ebay. A glorious mess. They don't have any clues about meteorites, they can't discriminate yet, which offer is serious, which offer is a wrong, which offer has an incorrect description, which pieces are lousy and which are good. Nor do they know any of the offerers. And now we are at the decisive point. Now the decision is felt, whether he ever will be a collector or whether he will be lost for that field of collection for ever. A dramatic event, he will buy his first meteorites! What will he buy, Doug? He has no experiences, he has no clues about meteorites, he doesn't know any dealer nor collector yet, and he's not sure yet, whether he will like that hobby or not. He/She will buy the cheapest he can find. He will buy: Mekong-River-irons - ebay is full of that crap, offered by dealers from Far-East and meanwhile from American mineral dealers as well. He will buy Campo. He will buy real Nantan. He will buy, if he has a little more to spend, a Brahin. He will buy, these auctions, which have almost no bids, because the offered piece is a self-found stone from the garden. He will buy from the starchasers-meteorites-sellers of the world a granite as a Moon or a Mars. He will buy a tektite, which is labelled as a meteorite. He will buy a weathered unclassified NWA, which is looking like torn out from the fillings of a road bed, but which is appraised in the auction as it would be the Star of India. He will buy from esoteric sellers Tibet stuff with no meteorite content. That's it. At home then, his Campo will rust, his Nantan will disintegrate, from his Brahin the olivines will pop out, because nobody told him, how to store them and that they are difficult to keep and often extreme rusters. Do you think, Doug, that he ever will touch a meteorite again? He will seek help, browsing in internet, addressing to a
[meteorite-list] meteorites not being able to leave certain countries
Good morning list.I want to start a new thread on something,that to me is a real steamer,that makes me a really upset,as to why certain countries prevent meteorites from being able to leave without proper papers.You have Australia,Canada,Oman,and now Argentina.If there are more I do not of them.I really want to know the reasoning behind such mind sets.We all live on the same planet,why deny everyone a chance to own a piece of the cosmic puzzle that we all love to collect?Any thought??When I read that countries are now going to keep them under lock and key it just does not make any sence. Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! The Asteroid Belt! http://chicagometeorites.net/ Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999 Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Sikhote Alin Help
Al, there is no possible way to give a true value without photos. Your idea of nice, no rust, etc may not be my idea of that. Just like the endless oriented meteorites on ebay, it seems that any meteorite with a round edge is oriented these days! It could be worth from ~$6000 to $25000. Michael Farmer --- Dave Gheesling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PS - I realize this is not always what we want to hear, but it is the reality of (and part of the fun and excitement of) such a young marketplace. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Walter Branch Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 7:30 PM To: AL Mitterling; Meteorite Mailing List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sikhote Alin Help Uh, Al The true value IS what someone wants to pay :-) How could it be otherwise? -Walter Branch - Original Message - From: AL Mitterling [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 7:26 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Sikhote Alin Help Greetings, This is the fourth time I have tried to post this message. I am seeking help to determine a value for a 20.3 kg Sikhote Alin. I need what dealers or collectors feel would be the true retail value of a super nice structured, un-rusted specimen. I want a true value and not what someone wants to pay. Any help appreciated. AL __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] meteorites not being able to leave certaincountries
Steve, In Canada, as to the best of my knowledge, meteorites are protected under a cultural heritage act. Same as Canadian works of art and historic artifacts. All of these items can be exported but the government wants scientific and/or cultural institutions to have a chance to acquire these things in order to keep heritage objects in Canada and available to Canadians. In order to export meteorites, and any other item protected under the same act, the seller needs to make an application and advise what they want to do. Institutions can then make offers and try to acquire the piece. After some time (perhaps a year?) the seller can then export the item if no reasonable offers are made. I believe this is how things work in Canada. It is a shame that some nice Canadian meteorites can not be easily sold to collectors around the world and perhaps meteorites should not be covered under the same legislation as historic and cultural artifacts. If this were the case then perhaps there would be more interest in Canadian meteorites and falls would be more enthusiastically hunted. Also, if Canadian can prove that they purchased a Canadian meteorite from outside Canada then I believe that the meteorite, or part of it, can be exported again without permission from the Canadian government. I can understand where governments are coming from but I tend to believe it is best if we did not have these restrictions. Cheers, Mike Tettenborn P.S. Please try and use your space bar in future emails. - Original Message - From: steve arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 9:41 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorites not being able to leave certaincountries Good morning list.I want to start a new thread on something,that to me is a real steamer,that makes me a really upset,as to why certain countries prevent meteorites from being able to leave without proper papers.You have Australia,Canada,Oman,and now Argentina.If there are more I do not of them.I really want to know the reasoning behind such mind sets.We all live on the same planet,why deny everyone a chance to own a piece of the cosmic puzzle that we all love to collect?Any thought??When I read that countries are now going to keep them under lock and key it just does not make any sence. Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! The Asteroid Belt! http://chicagometeorites.net/ Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999 Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Dino Killer size
Hi Sterling, all - From the article: Another possibility is that the impacting objects were comets rather than asteroids, and contained much less osmium to begin with. But chemical traces of the impactors left behind in rocks and reported in previous studies suggest otherwise. The last I heard, the impactor was carbonaceous chondrite, i.l. comet, and K-T fossil meteorite showed that. Has this changed? E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] meteorites not being able to leave certaincountries
Mike wrote: P.S. Please try and use your space bar in future emails. Also, a reminder; alot, and forsale are NOT WORDS! Pete From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 10:47:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] meteorites not being able to leave certaincountries Steve, In Canada, as to the best of my knowledge, meteorites are protected under a cultural heritage act. Same as Canadian works of art and historic artifacts. All of these items can be exported but the government wants scientific and/or cultural institutions to have a chance to acquire these things in order to keep heritage objects in Canada and available to Canadians. In order to export meteorites, and any other item protected under the same act, the seller needs to make an application and advise what they want to do. Institutions can then make offers and try to acquire the piece. After some time (perhaps a year?) the seller can then export the item if no reasonable offers are made. I believe this is how things work in Canada. It is a shame that some nice Canadian meteorites can not be easily sold to collectors around the world and perhaps meteorites should not be covered under the same legislation as historic and cultural artifacts. If this were the case then perhaps there would be more interest in Canadian meteorites and falls would be more enthusiastically hunted. Also, if Canadian can prove that they purchased a Canadian meteorite from outside Canada then I believe that the meteorite, or part of it, can be exported again without permission from the Canadian government. I can understand where governments are coming from but I tend to believe it is best if we did not have these restrictions. Cheers, Mike Tettenborn P.S. Please try and use your space bar in future emails. - Original Message - From: steve arnold To: Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 9:41 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorites not being able to leave certaincountries Good morning list.I want to start a new thread on something,that to me is a real steamer,that makes me a really upset,as to why certain countries prevent meteorites from being able to leave without proper papers.You have Australia,Canada,Oman,and now Argentina.If there are more I do not of them.I really want to know the reasoning behind such mind sets.We all live on the same planet,why deny everyone a chance to own a piece of the cosmic puzzle that we all love to collect?Any thought??When I read that countries are now going to keep them under lock and key it just does not make any sence. Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! The Asteroid Belt! http://chicagometeorites.net/ Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999 Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Find hidden words, unscramble celebrity names, or try the ultimate crossword puzzle with Live Search Games. Play now! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/212 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Acasta
Hi, I want to get a chunk of Acasta gneiss - any ideas where? (Other than going to Acasta!) thanks dave __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Acasta
http://www.sciencemall-usa.com/acastagneiss.html -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Harris Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 8:55 AM To: metlist Subject: [meteorite-list] Acasta Hi, I want to get a chunk of Acasta gneiss - any ideas where? (Other than going to Acasta!) thanks dave __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Sikhote-Alin Shrapnel
Apologies if this is a re-post. The first doesn't appear to have been sent... Greetings, all, While we're on Sikhote-Alin's; minus small impact craters and flow lines, is there an obvious indicator(s) separating entry shrapnel from impact shrapnel? Sharper edges? Shinier surface? I'd settle for a link with the information, which has so far eluded me. Cheers,Pete _ Turn every day into $1000. Learn more at SignInAndWIN.ca http://g.msn.ca/ca55/213 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dino Killer size
According to Cr and Mn isotopic analyses of KTB samples, the impactor was a carbonaceous chondrite - see report at: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/impact2000/pdf/3041.pdf Ted Bunch On 4/13/08 7:48 AM, E.P. Grondine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Sterling, all - From the article: Another possibility is that the impacting objects were comets rather than asteroids, and contained much less osmium to begin with. But chemical traces of the impactors left behind in rocks and reported in previous studies suggest otherwise. The last I heard, the impactor was carbonaceous chondrite, i.l. comet, and K-T fossil meteorite showed that. Has this changed? E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] meteorites not being able to leave certain countries
Some counties, fortunately, decided (before it was too late) they needed to protect items they considered an important part of their culture, heritage, natural resources, etc. We are all very sadly aware what happens when there are no rules. It is the nature of humans to overuse, over kill and commercially exploit anything they can get their hands on. NWA and Oman are good examples of what happens when there are no export rules concerning meteorites. On the American scene, the American Bison (buffalo) and Carrier Pidgeon are two good examples of what I'm talking about. How many buffaloes or birds do you really need to kill? There are ways for people to procure meteorites (and fossils, plants, birds,etc) from countries where tight regulations exist. Dedicated scientist and institutions with programs of proper study and preservation should have no problem securing those hard-to-get meteorites they want. However, if the desire to possess said meteorites is motivated by vanity, greed or purely commercial purposes, the regulations are there to intercede. If you (Ssteve) had a rare flower growing on your property that collectors could get nowhere else, would you allow anyone who wanted them to dig them up without your approval? What a pity it would be to see these rare (hypothetical )flowers show up on Ebay starting at JUST ONE CENT. In short order, your plants would all be gone, forever. Regards, John Gwilliam At 06:41 AM 4/13/2008, steve arnold wrote: Good morning list.I want to start a new thread on something,that to me is a real steamer,that makes me a really upset,as to why certain countries prevent meteorites from being able to leave without proper papers.You have Australia,Canada,Oman,and now Argentina.If there are more I do not of them.I really want to know the reasoning behind such mind sets.We all live on the same planet,why deny everyone a chance to own a piece of the cosmic puzzle that we all love to collect?Any thought??When I read that countries are now going to keep them under lock and key it just does not make any sence. Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! The Asteroid Belt! http://chicagometeorites.net/ Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999 Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 4925 Close-Up
http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/ Has Chladni always winked? Or does that show the progression of Conjunctivitis, which was rampant in those days ;) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Norbert Classen Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 9:25 AM To: 'Martin Altmann'; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 4925 Close-Up Hi Martin, Bernd, and All, Bernd: what a great closeup of this Martian, showing the sheer beauty of its matrix, and the neat zoned olivine phenocrysts. Thanks for sharing! Martin: I'm very happy with my upgraded slice, not yet listed on my website (update to follow, soon). Thanks for such a great opportunity. All: If you don't have a piece of this shergottite - I think there are a few hours left to grab one at Martin's and Stefan's favourable and hard-to-beat introductory price. Amazed, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- I forgot in the last email to present a fine photo, Bernd Pauli made of his slice, and which he allowed us to show - many thanks, Bernd! It excellently summarizes the characteristics of NWA 4925! http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/NWA%204925x16-03.jpg (16x magnification) Best! Martin __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 4925 Close-Up
Hi Martin, Bernd, and All, Bernd: what a great closeup of this Martian, showing the sheer beauty of its matrix, and the neat zoned olivine phenocrysts. Thanks for sharing! Martin: I'm very happy with my upgraded slice, not yet listed on my website (update to follow, soon). Thanks for such a great opportunity. All: If you don't have a piece of this shergottite - I think there are a few hours left to grab one at Martin's and Stefan's favourable and hard-to-beat introductory price. Amazed, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- I forgot in the last email to present a fine photo, Bernd Pauli made of his slice, and which he allowed us to show - many thanks, Bernd! It excellently summarizes the characteristics of NWA 4925! http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/NWA%204925x16-03.jpg (16x magnification) Best! Martin __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Update on suspected fireball !
Hi all, I have had a chance to get a little more information on a reported fireball. The suspected fire ball was seen coming across the valley and hit into a hillside,witnessed by two guys herding cattle at night. The fireball broke up twice before hitting the hillside and appeared to burn out before hitting . The large dust cloud appeared within a few seconds on the hillside. The dust cloud was around 6-7 miles from their location. They were not able to ride to the hillside until the following day. They went to the general location but found nothing. I have received some great emails regarding this fireball. A few things list members suggest I ask the witnesses; Did the fireball explode and any sounds heard? appear to burn out or continue to burn upon impact? was it witnessed from different locations? The one witness heard no sound or explosion from the fireball, but saw the dust cloud and fireball go down below the horizon on his side of the ridge. I have not been able to contact the second witness yet. I'm working on contacting him and going to the location. If a meteorite hit in the area, how many people would know what to look for? It could have buried itself, or broke up into many pieces! On the other hand, it could be miles from the location. It might be a waste of time looking, but may be worthwhile to check out a new area and maybe find something. Sonny www.nevadameteorites.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dino Killer size
On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 09:32:33 -0700, you wrote: According to Cr and Mn isotopic analyses of KTB samples, the impactor was a carbonaceous chondrite - see report at: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/impact2000/pdf/3041.pdf Yes, but it appears that comets are essentially carbonaceous chondrites that formed far enough from the sun to not lose their volitile mineral ddihydrogen monoxide. So saying that it is a carbonaceous chondrite doesn't conclude if it iwas a wet one (called a comet) or a dry one (called an asteroid). __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Update on suspected fireball !
Hi Sonny, If it occurred at night, how could they see the impact's dust cloud 6 or 7 miles away? Was there a full moon that night? Regards, Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 10:41 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Update on suspected fireball ! Hi all, I have had a chance to get a little more information on a reported fireball. The suspected fire ball was seen coming across the valley and hit into a hillside,witnessed by two guys herding cattle at night. The fireball broke up twice before hitting the hillside and appeared to burn out before hitting . The large dust cloud appeared within a few seconds on the hillside. The dust cloud was around 6-7 miles from their location. They were not able to ride to the hillside until the following day. They went to the general location but found nothing. I have received some great emails regarding this fireball. A few things list members suggest I ask the witnesses; Did the fireball explode and any sounds heard? appear to burn out or continue to burn upon impact? was it witnessed from different locations? The one witness heard no sound or explosion from the fireball, but saw the dust cloud and fireball go down below the horizon on his side of the ridge. I have not been able to contact the second witness yet. I'm working on contacting him and going to the location. If a meteorite hit in the area, how many people would know what to look for? It could have buried itself, or broke up into many pieces! On the other hand, it could be miles from the location. It might be a waste of time looking, but may be worthwhile to check out a new area and maybe find something. Sonny www.nevadameteorites.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Update on suspected fireball !
The impact was only a few seconds after burning out? Unless it burned out a couple hundred feet up, it would take longer than that. If it was 20-30 thousand feet up, you are looking at a couple of minutes free fall at a minimum. Just a thought, David H. - Original Message From: Bob Loeffler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 2:28:50 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Update on suspected fireball ! Hi Sonny, If it occurred at night, how could they see the impact's dust cloud 6 or 7 miles away? Was there a full moon that night? Regards, Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 10:41 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Update on suspected fireball ! Hi all, I have had a chance to get a little more information on a reported fireball. The suspected fire ball was seen coming across the valley and hit into a hillside,witnessed by two guys herding cattle at night. The fireball broke up twice before hitting the hillside and appeared to burn out before hitting . The large dust cloud appeared within a few seconds on the hillside. The dust cloud was around 6-7 miles from their location. They were not able to ride to the hillside until the following day. They went to the general location but found nothing. I have received some great emails regarding this fireball. A few things list members suggest I ask the witnesses; Did the fireball explode and any sounds heard? appear to burn out or continue to burn upon impact? was it witnessed from different locations? The one witness heard no sound or explosion from the fireball, but saw the dust cloud and fireball go down below the horizon on his side of the ridge. I have not been able to contact the second witness yet. I'm working on contacting him and going to the location. If a meteorite hit in the area, how many people would know what to look for? It could have buried itself, or broke up into many pieces! On the other hand, it could be miles from the location. It might be a waste of time looking, but may be worthwhile to check out a new area and maybe find something. Sonny www.nevadameteorites.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Update on suspected fireball !
Hi Bob, Good question! I could check the suspected fall day with with the moon cycle. Also another question to ask the second witness. Sonny -Original Message- From: Bob Loeffler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 11:28 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Update on suspected fireball ! Hi Sonny, If it occurred at night, how could they see the impact's dust cloud 6 or 7 miles away? Was there a full moon that night? Regards, Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 10:41 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Update on suspected fireball ! Hi all, I have had a chance to get a little more information on a reported fireball. The suspected fire ball was seen coming across the valley and hit into a hillside,witnessed by two guys herding cattle at night. The fireball broke up twice before hitting the hillside and appeared to burn out before hitting . The large dust cloud appeared within a few seconds on the hillside. The dust cloud was around 6-7 miles from their location. They were not able to ride to the hillside until the following day. They went to the general location but found nothing. I have received some great emails regarding this fireball. A few things list members suggest I ask the witnesses; Did the fireball explode and any sounds heard? appear to burn out or continue to burn upon impact? was it witnessed from different locations? The one witness heard no sound or explosion from the fireball, but saw the dust cloud and fireball go down below the horizon on his side of the ridge. I have not been able to contact the second witness yet. I'm working on contacting him and going to the location. If a meteorite hit in the area, how many people would know what to look for? It could have buried itself, or broke up into many pieces! On the other hand, it could be miles from the location. It might be a waste of time looking, but may be worthwhile to check out a new area and maybe find something. Sonny www.nevadameteorites.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - March 26, 2008 /Ques
Hi Doug, This reply is extremely late, so I'm including most of the original e-mails so everyone will remember what we were talking about. My definition of a hammer is a meteorite that directly hits a person or man-made object, but others' definitions may be different. No matter who or what it hit, meteorites are still really cool. :-) If it indirectly hit a person after directly hitting a tree, I don't consider that a hammer. Maybe we can differentiate between the two, like direct hammer and indirect hammer or primary hammer and secondary hammer? Is there are real (accepted) definition of a hammer? Does it have to do damage? Or can it gently roll up onto a doormat and come to rest? We need a real definition! ;-) The one that hit that lady was a hammer, but not because it hit her. It crashed through her roof first. That made it a hammer. After that, it can hit whatever it wants to, but that doesn't change the fact that it hit the roof first. Regards, Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 3:38 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - March 26, 2008 /Ques Michael B. wrote: If, as stated, even if it struck a tree first it landed on a welcome mat of its own momentum, there is a strong argument for calling it a hammer. Hi Michael, Bob, Listees, It's quite silly (but fun) too make up arbitrary definitions of what consists of a 'hammer' and what doesn't. Meteorites will land where they please and don't need to fit a contrived definition to be amazing. I wouldn't take this stuff so seriously to miss out on the irony of the situation. Here's a rock from space delivered to the doorstep neatly on the welcome mat, apparently under its own steam. That sound's a whole lot better to me (and more reminiscent of Claxton - via UPS, DHL, FedEx which incidentally is probably a more hip way to get meteorites nowadays anyways) than one that lodged itself some roof not to be found until roofing maintenance was done in the rainy season. If it looks like it, feels like it, smells like it, and tastes like it - it is it, whatever it is! (Don't quote me on this). Michael does mention he appreciates this - no complaint there! There is probably linear and rotational tree momentum summed into this to change the direction of the stone, elastic collision or not. I would take the approach of saying before it came to rest. This is the approach taken when claiming the Sylacauga meteorite hit a woman. In fact, it penetrated the roof first, bounced around off a radio and then came to rest on the sofa where it contacted her before it came to a rest. We not say it didn't hit a woman because it hit the roof first, etc. Just because it is a doormat, doesn't mean it don't get no respect... Also, I am curious why you brought up a hammer stone is like saying a car car? Best wishes and great health, Doug on 3/26/08 11:35 PM, Bob Loeffler at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I disagree. If it hit a maple tree first and then landed on the doormat, it cannot be considered a hammer. Maple trees are not man-made, even if you plant it yourself. Sorry. ;-) But that was a great story anyway, Larry! Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 11:24 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - March 26,2008 / Ques Larry A. wrote: Does a hammer stone this make? Hello Larry, Bernd, Listees, Most definitely does IMO, but better than that, it sounds more like the unique delivery the Courier service from the Heavens left on the front door, and whoever left it was nice enough to ring the celestial doorbell :-) What a sweet sound to which one lucky soul was awakened... Next thing we're hoping for: a piece will be recovered at a ball game by being caught in a mit. That is one fly ball the ump can shout And he's SAFE at home!, Best Huntin' Mexico Flow lines don't [normally] cross Doug -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:00 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - March 26, 2008 / Ques List, Quick question, Does a hammer stone this make? When he looked down he saw this meteorite setting on his door mat! Thanks, larry __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dino Killer size
Hi Ted, Darren, Listees, Thanks to Ted for the link of the first paper (should scientists now mind their pdf's or perish rather than call them papers) to use isotope (vs. elemental, i.e. Iridium) presence/ratios to show the proposed K/T impactor was a carbonaceous chondrite. As the authors show, it was done by confirming especially high chromium 54-Cr as well as a 53-Cr proportion compared with the terrestrial 52-Cr baseline, according to the pdf. Darren, I believe Ed asked if it was a carbonaceous chondrite and that is what Ted responded to, not whether it was wet or dry with water and other volatiles, which is another topic entirely. As to the comment that a dry carbonaceous chondrite is called an asteroid and a wet one, a comet, while that sounds nice and logical, I think it is a little misleading in common speech (just like his comment on dihydrogen monoxide which we all better know as water, so perhaps Darren is joking around). As we know best, the fate of many comets is fragmentation (and we've even seen impact), and this is nearly complete into little grains as far as we can tell in meteoroid streams. Rubble-Pile is a possibility after drying - but has this been proven? Other asteroids are called dormant comets under the impression that they are mostly inactive at their perihelia, though a change could revive them. I am not sure we ought to call something a comet that is half baked and has never errupted. For this reason neither Pluto nor Ceres are normally called comets. Hidalgo, I couldn't begin to guess... But he was a great man and also fine Mustang... Best wishes and Great Health, Doug On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 09:32:33 -0700, you wrote: According to Cr and Mn isotopic analyses of KTB samples, the impactor was a carbonaceous chondrite - see report at: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/impact2000/pdf/3041.pdf Yes, but it appears that comets are essentially carbonaceous chondrites that formed far enough from the sun to not lose their volitile mineral ddihydrogen monoxide. So saying that it is a carbonaceous chondrite doesn't conclude if it iwas a wet one (called a comet) or a dry one (called an asteroid -Original Message- From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 12:51 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dino Killer size On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 09:32:33 -0700, you wrote: According to Cr and Mn isotopic analyses of KTB samples, the impactor was a carbonaceous chondrite - see report at: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/impact2000/pdf/3041.pdf Yes, but it appears that comets are essentially carbonaceous chondrites that formed far enough from the sun to not lose their volitile mineral ddihydrogen monoxide. So saying that it is a carbonaceous chondrite doesn't conclude if it iwas a wet one (called a comet) or a dry one (called an asteroid). __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - March 26, 2008 /Ques
If it indirectly hit a person after directly hitting a tree, I don't consider that a hammer. I would if it hit me. Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Bob Loeffler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 2:48 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - March 26,2008 /Ques __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - March 26, 2008 /Ques
On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 12:48:30 -0600, you wrote: If it indirectly hit a person after directly hitting a tree, I don't consider that a hammer. Maybe we can differentiate between the two, like direct hammer and indirect hammer or primary hammer and secondary hammer? Maybe we could call it a whammer or a slammer. Or maybe a dammer after what one might cry out immediately after being hit by one. Is there are real (accepted) definition of a hammer? Isn't it just a term that MLB (no, not Major League Baseball!) made up that was picked up by the list? Just a term that will only be known by a small in crowd, and not have an official or technical definition? Sort of like Bessey Speck? __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] WG: meteorites not being able to leave certain countries
Hi John, How high would you estimate is the damage NWA countries suffered from meteorites having removed and of which kind is that damage? Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von JKGwilliam Gesendet: Sonntag, 13. April 2008 18:33 An: steve arnold; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] meteorites not being able to leave certain countries Some counties, fortunately, decided (before it was too late) they needed to protect items they considered an important part of their culture, heritage, natural resources, etc. We are all very sadly aware what happens when there are no rules. It is the nature of humans to overuse, over kill and commercially exploit anything they can get their hands on. NWA and Oman are good examples of what happens when there are no export rules concerning meteorites. On the American scene, the American Bison (buffalo) and Carrier Pidgeon are two good examples of what I'm talking about. How many buffaloes or birds do you really need to kill? There are ways for people to procure meteorites (and fossils, plants, birds,etc) from countries where tight regulations exist. Dedicated scientist and institutions with programs of proper study and preservation should have no problem securing those hard-to-get meteorites they want. However, if the desire to possess said meteorites is motivated by vanity, greed or purely commercial purposes, the regulations are there to intercede. If you (Ssteve) had a rare flower growing on your property that collectors could get nowhere else, would you allow anyone who wanted them to dig them up without your approval? What a pity it would be to see these rare (hypothetical )flowers show up on Ebay starting at JUST ONE CENT. In short order, your plants would all be gone, forever. Regards, John Gwilliam At 06:41 AM 4/13/2008, steve arnold wrote: Good morning list.I want to start a new thread on something,that to me is a real steamer,that makes me a really upset,as to why certain countries prevent meteorites from being able to leave without proper papers.You have Australia,Canada,Oman,and now Argentina.If there are more I do not of them.I really want to know the reasoning behind such mind sets.We all live on the same planet,why deny everyone a chance to own a piece of the cosmic puzzle that we all love to collect?Any thought??When I read that countries are now going to keep them under lock and key it just does not make any sence. Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! The Asteroid Belt! http://chicagometeorites.net/ Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999 Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] WG: meteorites not being able to leave certaincountries
My question wasn't meant polemically. I wanted to know, what for a difference it makes for countries like Libya, Algeria, Egypt, when less meteorites are in the desert than before. We read so often, from a damage, which happens, when meteorites are taken from a country where they felt on. But we never read, WHAT for a damage. So? -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Armando Afonso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Montag, 14. April 2008 00:14 An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] WG: meteorites not being able to leave certaincountries This is more or less when our dear M. F. enters in action... Is he sleeping, or what ? Armando - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 10:29 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] WG: meteorites not being able to leave certaincountries Hi John, How high would you estimate is the damage NWA countries suffered from meteorites having removed and of which kind is that damage? Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von JKGwilliam Gesendet: Sonntag, 13. April 2008 18:33 An: steve arnold; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] meteorites not being able to leave certain countries Some counties, fortunately, decided (before it was too late) they needed to protect items they considered an important part of their culture, heritage, natural resources, etc. We are all very sadly aware what happens when there are no rules. It is the nature of humans to overuse, over kill and commercially exploit anything they can get their hands on. NWA and Oman are good examples of what happens when there are no export rules concerning meteorites. On the American scene, the American Bison (buffalo) and Carrier Pidgeon are two good examples of what I'm talking about. How many buffaloes or birds do you really need to kill? There are ways for people to procure meteorites (and fossils, plants, birds,etc) from countries where tight regulations exist. Dedicated scientist and institutions with programs of proper study and preservation should have no problem securing those hard-to-get meteorites they want. However, if the desire to possess said meteorites is motivated by vanity, greed or purely commercial purposes, the regulations are there to intercede. If you (Ssteve) had a rare flower growing on your property that collectors could get nowhere else, would you allow anyone who wanted them to dig them up without your approval? What a pity it would be to see these rare (hypothetical )flowers show up on Ebay starting at JUST ONE CENT. In short order, your plants would all be gone, forever. Regards, John Gwilliam At 06:41 AM 4/13/2008, steve arnold wrote: Good morning list.I want to start a new thread on something,that to me is a real steamer,that makes me a really upset,as to why certain countries prevent meteorites from being able to leave without proper papers.You have Australia,Canada,Oman,and now Argentina.If there are more I do not of them.I really want to know the reasoning behind such mind sets.We all live on the same planet,why deny everyone a chance to own a piece of the cosmic puzzle that we all love to collect?Any thought??When I read that countries are now going to keep them under lock and key it just does not make any sence. Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! The Asteroid Belt! http://chicagometeorites.net/ Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999 Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] WG: meteorites not being able to leavecertaincountries
Any scientific data that is lost to the country. Right now it might seem trivial, but just like antiquities, they are a non-renewable resource. That meteorite will never fall again. And in the future, knowing where strewnfields are, how they oriented, what class and quantity, could have some significant meaning. It's the unknown they are loosing. Mark Ferguson - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 6:37 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WG: meteorites not being able to leavecertaincountries My question wasn't meant polemically. I wanted to know, what for a difference it makes for countries like Libya, Algeria, Egypt, when less meteorites are in the desert than before. We read so often, from a damage, which happens, when meteorites are taken from a country where they felt on. But we never read, WHAT for a damage. So? -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Armando Afonso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Montag, 14. April 2008 00:14 An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] WG: meteorites not being able to leave certaincountries This is more or less when our dear M. F. enters in action... Is he sleeping, or what ? Armando - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 10:29 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] WG: meteorites not being able to leave certaincountries Hi John, How high would you estimate is the damage NWA countries suffered from meteorites having removed and of which kind is that damage? Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von JKGwilliam Gesendet: Sonntag, 13. April 2008 18:33 An: steve arnold; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] meteorites not being able to leave certain countries Some counties, fortunately, decided (before it was too late) they needed to protect items they considered an important part of their culture, heritage, natural resources, etc. We are all very sadly aware what happens when there are no rules. It is the nature of humans to overuse, over kill and commercially exploit anything they can get their hands on. NWA and Oman are good examples of what happens when there are no export rules concerning meteorites. On the American scene, the American Bison (buffalo) and Carrier Pidgeon are two good examples of what I'm talking about. How many buffaloes or birds do you really need to kill? There are ways for people to procure meteorites (and fossils, plants, birds,etc) from countries where tight regulations exist. Dedicated scientist and institutions with programs of proper study and preservation should have no problem securing those hard-to-get meteorites they want. However, if the desire to possess said meteorites is motivated by vanity, greed or purely commercial purposes, the regulations are there to intercede. If you (Ssteve) had a rare flower growing on your property that collectors could get nowhere else, would you allow anyone who wanted them to dig them up without your approval? What a pity it would be to see these rare (hypothetical )flowers show up on Ebay starting at JUST ONE CENT. In short order, your plants would all be gone, forever. Regards, John Gwilliam At 06:41 AM 4/13/2008, steve arnold wrote: Good morning list.I want to start a new thread on something,that to me is a real steamer,that makes me a really upset,as to why certain countries prevent meteorites from being able to leave without proper papers.You have Australia,Canada,Oman,and now Argentina.If there are more I do not of them.I really want to know the reasoning behind such mind sets.We all live on the same planet,why deny everyone a chance to own a piece of the cosmic puzzle that we all love to collect?Any thought??When I read that countries are now going to keep them under lock and key it just does not make any sence. Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! The Asteroid Belt! http://chicagometeorites.net/ Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999 Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] By Popular Demand................
Hello List-Members, After reading all the emails yesterday, I decided there was only one thing I could do: publish my sources. So I added a column to the Catalog page and keyed in the provenance of each and every piece on that list. Well, not quite every piece, but about 90%, it will be a work in progress for a bit longer. Also, I very often have more information that I had room to squeeze in on that page. So, if you are interested, just ask. And take a look:_http://www.impactika.com/Metlist.htm_ (http://www.impactika.com/Metlist.htm) Now lets see which one of my Colleagues will follow suit and publish his sources too. And while I was at it, I also added some 20 new pieces to the Catalog. Those were easy, no research needed, they are all from the Monnig Collection. But no pictures yet for those. Sorry. The pictures will get done in the next few days. I had a busy weekend! As usual, any questions, just ask. Thank you. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Vice-President of IMCA www.IMCA.cc **It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp0030002850) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] By Popular Demand................
Anne, Just took a look. Fantastic! I hope others in the meteorite community follow suit. I have seen some dealers who do mention provenance for samples from museums, but I don't recall ever seeing a catalog or list that has entries for other than museum sources. Although there is obviously a great deal of work involved for the dealers, it should have some advantages as well. It should certainly highlight those specimens with excellent provenance, as well as cut down on questions from collectors who often present dealers with questions that can be time consuming. Again, a fantastic effort and a practical positive step in addressing the provenance issue. Thanks! Mark Grossman - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 10:31 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] By Popular Demand Hello List-Members, After reading all the emails yesterday, I decided there was only one thing I could do: publish my sources. So I added a column to the Catalog page and keyed in the provenance of each and every piece on that list. Well, not quite every piece, but about 90%, it will be a work in progress for a bit longer. Also, I very often have more information that I had room to squeeze in on that page. So, if you are interested, just ask. And take a look:_http://www.impactika.com/Metlist.htm_ (http://www.impactika.com/Metlist.htm) Now lets see which one of my Colleagues will follow suit and publish his sources too. And while I was at it, I also added some 20 new pieces to the Catalog. Those were easy, no research needed, they are all from the Monnig Collection. But no pictures yet for those. Sorry. The pictures will get done in the next few days. I had a busy weekend! As usual, any questions, just ask. Thank you. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Vice-President of IMCA www.IMCA.cc **It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp0030002850) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] By Popular Demand................
Thank you very much Mark. I do appreciate the compliment! Yes, it is a lot of work, but I believe it is worth it. Anne In a message dated 4/13/2008 8:42:03 PM Mountain Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anne, Just took a look. Fantastic! I hope others in the meteorite community follow suit. I have seen some dealers who do mention provenance for samples from museums, but I don't recall ever seeing a catalog or list that has entries for other than museum sources. Although there is obviously a great deal of work involved for the dealers, it should have some advantages as well. It should certainly highlight those specimens with excellent provenance, as well as cut down on questions from collectors who often present dealers with questions that can be time consuming. Again, a fantastic effort and a practical positive step in addressing the provenance issue. Thanks! Mark Grossman - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 10:31 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] By Popular Demand Hello List-Members, After reading all the emails yesterday, I decided there was only one thing I could do: publish my sources. So I added a column to the Catalog page and keyed in the provenance of each and every piece on that list. Well, not quite every piece, but about 90%, it will be a work in progress for a bit longer. Also, I very often have more information that I had room to squeeze in on that page. So, if you are interested, just ask. And take a look: _http://www.impactika.com/Metlist.htm_ (http://www.impactika.com/Metlist.htm) Now lets see which one of my Colleagues will follow suit and publish his sources too. And while I was at it, I also added some 20 new pieces to the Catalog. Those were easy, no research needed, they are all from the Monnig Collection. But no pictures yet for those. Sorry. The pictures will get done in the next few days. I had a busy weekend! As usual, any questions, just ask. Thank you. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Vice-President of IMCA www.IMCA.cc **It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp0030002850) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Request: Review of the book - Tektites in the Geological Record
Hello Fellow Listoids, Do any of you own _Tektites in the Geological Record:Showers of Glass from the Sky_ ? There are very few of the tektite books that are not already in my bookshelf and this is one of them. Before I drop $130.00 on a paperback book, can any of you review this book? Thank you and Best Regards, Pat Brown Scientific Lifestyle Meteorites Engineer by vocation, meteorite hunter when on vacation ISBN 978-1862390850 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Request: Review of the book - Tektites in theGeological Record
Hi Pat, It has been several years ago now but, when the book first was coming out I did a review of it in Meteorite Magazine. A quick summary of the review would be that it is a pricey book that has a lot of new information about tektites and a good amount of new material not really easy to find elsewhere on recent microtektites and clinopyroxene spherules discoveries. There were a few minor things I noted that were off track but it is a good book. Though as you noted you have to really love tektites if the price is now $130 for it. Wish I knew what issue of Meteorite the review was in but maybe I can find it on my hard drive and send you a copy. Or maybe one of our list friends can give us all the issue info. Best regards, Jim Tobin Two messages in a couple weeks I just got to go back to lurking. :-) - Original Message - From: Pat Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 7:52 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Request: Review of the book - Tektites in theGeological Record Hello Fellow Listoids, Do any of you own _Tektites in the Geological Record:Showers of Glass from the Sky_ ? There are very few of the tektite books that are not already in my bookshelf and this is one of them. Before I drop $130.00 on a paperback book, can any of you review this book? Thank you and Best Regards, Pat Brown Scientific Lifestyle Meteorites Engineer by vocation, meteorite hunter when on vacation ISBN 978-1862390850 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] meteorites not being able to leave certain countries
The reasoning? That's easy Steve, pick one: - exercising absolute state authority, - exercising autocratic authority - exercising complete regulation by the state - exercising a monopoly BTW, in response to someone's statement about artifacts, I fail to find meteorite crouched anywhere in the meaning of the word artifact. That is an often used strategy though. Mike On Apr 13, 2008, at 7:41 AM, steve arnold wrote: Good morning list.I want to start a new thread on something,that to me is a real steamer,that makes me a really upset,as to why certain countries prevent meteorites from being able to leave without proper papers.You have Australia,Canada,Oman,and now Argentina.If there are more I do not of them.I really want to know the reasoning behind such mind sets.We all live on the same planet,why deny everyone a chance to own a piece of the cosmic puzzle that we all love to collect?Any thought??When I read that countries are now going to keep them under lock and key it just does not make any sence. Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! The Asteroid Belt! http://chicagometeorites.net/ Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999 Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Request: Review of the book - Tektites in the Geological Record
Hello Pat and List, Tektites in the Geological Record is a bit over-priced considering the amount of information that it contains. Look for a used copy. I have one copy and don`t feel that it was worth the cost. If you do not have a copy of Tektites: Witnesses of Cosmic Catastrophes by Guy Heinen 1998, I suggest that you buy it first as it is well written and informative. I have extra copies. Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo --- Pat Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Fellow Listoids, Do any of you own _Tektites in the Geological Record:Showers of Glass from the Sky_ ? There are very few of the tektite books that are not already in my bookshelf and this is one of them. Before I drop $130.00 on a paperback book, can any of you review this book? Thank you and Best Regards, Pat Brown Scientific Lifestyle Meteorites Engineer by vocation, meteorite hunter when on vacation ISBN 978-1862390850 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
