[meteorite-list] Pictures from the Lone Rock Strewnfield
I was diligent in getting photos of stones in situ. The trick is to snap the picture before the cold snaps the battery dead. -20C does nasty things to battery chemistry. Note fusion crust looks 'wrong' with a light coating of ice that might be half sublimated. Also note, that only after 9 days on the ground, oxidation is already visible on some specimens. Spring stones should be noticeably different than winter stones. Lets hope this works... http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/sets/72157610818541399/ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Update on Colorado fireball
I've posted more information about the Dec 6 fireball at http://www.cloudbait.com/science/fireball20081206.html in case anybody wants to start looking for pieces. Not the best ground to search, but better than the side of Pikes Peak, which was my first estimate. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Hi, all, I may have missed it in a past post, but has the new Canadian meteorite been given a fall name yet? Cheers, Pete > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 20:30:29 -0500 > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale > > Maybe that someone isn't getting it...wow. Sonny and McCartney, if the > market is willing to pay you $50,000 for your recoveries, congrats on a job > well done. > Dave > www.fallingrocks.com > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Utas > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 6:52 PM > To: Meteorite-list > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale > > ...And what's that supposed to mean? > > > On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 3:41 PM, wrote: >> Geez Jason, >> >> You must be on restriction or something! >> >> Sonny >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Jason Utas >> To: Meteorite-list >> Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 3:11 pm >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hola, >> I've heard that you fellows fetched over a kilogram. >> $50/g isn't a bad price for you to set, considering that you both >> probably spent less than $1,500 all told for the trip, each. >> I mean, it's not like you had to deal with any dangers or risk. You >> left when you knew meteorites had been found, and travelled to a safe, >> civilized location. I suppose there might have been a risk in not >> being allowed to search private land, but, honestly...that's not >> stopped any hunters I know on this list. >> Anyway, it sounds like nice material. Like every other fresh fall >> from the past...well, since forever. >> As to your stating that you "would say it is up to the individuals >> that took the time and effort to get out in the field to do the >> recovery work," well, fine. I just wonder why the hunters who went to >> Kilabo, Bensour, Thuathe, Chergach, Bassikounou, and even Park Forest, >> charged substantially less than you are supposedly asking for this >> fall. >> As your friend, fellow hunter, and prospective customer, I'd like to >> know why. Because it looks like you're set to make $25,000 off of >> this, along with McCartney (another $25,000). Why do I, and other >> meteorite collectors, owe you that? >> Regards, >> Jason >> >> On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 2:14 PM, wrote: >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I would have responded earlier but our Internet connection was not >> >> the >>> >>> best. We just flew in from Canada today. What is a fair price per >> >> gram? I >>> >>> would say it is up to the individuals that took the time and effort >> >> to get >>> >>> out in the field to do the recovery work. I knew before leaving home >> >> that if >>> >>> we were lucky enough to find any material that we would have to leave >> >> it in >>> >>> Canada and go through the proper channels to obtain this legally. >> >> Most of >>> >>> the area where the fall took place has been locked up with NO >> >> TRESPASSING >>> >>> signs posted. We were fortunate enough to negotiate a deal with the >> >> owners >>> >>> of some private property. We have been told the chances of any >> >> material >>> >>> leaving Canada with a permit is almost impossible. How nice would it >> >> be to >>> >>> have a new Canadian meteorite from a witnessed fall with proper >>> documentation? This is my first time to pick up a meteorite as fresh >> >> as >>> >>> this. You can almost rub off the fusion crust and the interior is >> >> bright >>> >>> white. I will have a picture showing the interior of the meteorite >> >> posted >>> >>> within the next couple of days. So lets keep our fingers crossed to >> >> have >>> >>> these meteorites in the U.S.A within 6 months to a year. I was >> >> thinking >>> >>> about playing a joke on Mccartney and placing a meteorite in his >> >> backpack to >>> >>> see if he could make it through customs and once we made it into the >> >> U.S.A >>> >>> telling McCartney "Hey half of the meteorite is mine!" Just teasing. >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Sonny >>> __ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> __ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> >> >> >> > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listin
[meteorite-list] December Issue of Meteorite-Times Now Up
Dear List, The December issue of Meteorite-Times is now up. http://www.meteorite-times.com/ A huge thank you to all the writers and people who contributed this year. Meteorite-Times only happens because of you. Thank you all, Paul and Jim __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Results
Mike wrote: "I paid $2000.00 for the 2 kilo sphere, now with seller premium, I lost at least $200 and the time to mess with it." Let's see, didn't you lose $560.00 if the $2000 is a hard figure? Isn't there both a 20% premium on hammer for the buyer as well as a 20% of hammer commission? Please correct this if it is wrong, but it appears they 'earn' from both buyers and sellers. This is my understanding: seller gets $1,440 hammer price $1,800 sale price $2,160 with tax$2,333 don't even ask about shipping fees... So, unless Mike was cut a special deal on his sphere and didn't have to pay 20% seller-side commission of the hammer price, he lost $560 plus the shipping fees to get it to the auction plus the hassle. May more for cataloging and promotional fees. Of course, these fees are not applied equally to all sellers in the auction. If you happen to know who is administering the sale, they might give you a lower commision under the radar. I didn't say under the table - it's just an auction, not a moral venture. Thus Udei Station's seller should have received per gram: $ 1.32 sale price: $ 1.98 with tax: $ 2.14 The total markup of auction house on consigned goods at sellers risks of providing, before tax, btw, is an even 50% if I a correctly understanding the terms. Something to keep in mind when bellyaching about ebay and Blood's Auction. This auction company took gross profit off meteorites $14,708, assuming they charged everyone the 20% and didn't cut special deals for preferred sellers. 25% of their profit and the total auction sales in meteorites was the single LA002 Martian lot. All in all, the hammer came down on $ 36,769 The auction house technically grossed $ 14,708 But offered on the block (low end) $ 225,719 Total sold: 16.3% of offerings' value. WOW ! Which should be compared to 22/40 lots sold (>half full?), the best piece of news from a lackluster auction which the optimists can use as a judge ... Martin, you're right - all looks hunky-dory! (Hey Martin's the only one that reads this, gotta get his attention) Happy Holidays, Doug Sr. Businessman dreaming about free meteorites and nightmares of hunters that pay for the pleasure -Original Message- From: Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Jason Utas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Meteorite-list ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 7:55 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Results Yes, however, the Esquel (mine) did not sell, it did not meet reserve. I am sick at these prices, I could have done better on ebay. I paid $2000.00 for the 2 kilo sphere, now with seller premium, I lost at least $200 and the time to mess with it. Mike --- On Sun, 12/7/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Results To: "Jason Utas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Meteorite-list" Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 5:49 PM OMG - should have bid. Do these include the buyers premium? Matt Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA -Original Message- From: "Jason Utas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:17:18 To: Meteorite-list Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Results Hello All, I read through the legal print in the front of the catalog, and it looks like it's ok to post the results publicly. 1086 - 315g Gibeon Sphere - $475 1087 - 140g Gibeon Egg - $190 1088 - 490g Gibeon Slice - $375 1089 - 321g Gibeon Slice - Pass 1090 - 2 Gibeon Slices (281 + 262g) - $325 1091 - Gibeon Part-Slice $475 1092 - 552g Gibeon Slice - $400 1093 - 2.6kg Gibeon Cut Block - $1,700 1094 - 7,150g Gibeon Slice - $3.250 - Pass 1095 - 1,361g Muonionalusta End - $500 1096 - 136g Chinga Slice - $120 1097 - 494g Seymchan Slice - $425 1098 - 121g Udei Station End - $200 (!) 1099 - 276g New NWA Iron (silicated) slice - $600 1100 - "7lb" Sikhote Shrapnel - listed as "oriented" - $1,500 1101 - 1,304g Sikhote Individual - $2,900 (!) 1102 - 8kg Corroded Sikhote (*no* remaining fusion crust) - $6,500 - Pass 1103 - 334g Fukang Part-Slice (shattered crystals) - $3,750 1104 - 520g Esquel Part-Slice - $12,000 1105 - Pair of Campo Ends (206g and 430g, one silicated) - ~$400 - Pass (Passed at $400 for 600g of Camporight)\ 1106 - 1,886g Campo Indiv (nice) - $300 1107 - 3,146g Canyon Diablo (fairly nondescript) - $1,300 1108 - 42.5lb Campo (good shape, no glypts - corroded) - missed price 1109 - 1,220 lb butt-ugly Campo - $19,000 1110 - 127 lb Canyon Diablo - Special Note This iron looks great in the auction photo. It's not. The back of it was...ruined somehow. It looks like the owner sandblasted the back down to a quasi-3D widmanstatten surface, and then coated it in some sort of plastic/sealant that tinged it all (only the backside, but the entire backside) a nasty light-green hue, and gave it a smoo
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -December 7, 2008
Eduardo & All, I sent that caption to Michael, so it is my doing. I'm glad to receive your reply, as this is exactly why I included that line with the image. The individual from whom I acquired the 328 gram piece also told me they thought it might be the largest intact individual, and I've been wondering whether that might be true or not. Anyway, if you have a photograph please send it along...would love to see the specimen! Best regards, Dave www.fallingrocks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eduardo. Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 7:45 PM To: Michael Johnson; Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -December 7, 2008 Hi Michael You mention that the pictured Malotas might be the only complete individual, but actually the main mass of 4712g is an individual which is now in my collection. best regards Eduardo -Original Message- From: Michael Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Meteorite List Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 03:38:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 7, 2008 > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_7_2008.html > > > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Maybe that someone isn't getting it...wow. Sonny and McCartney, if the market is willing to pay you $50,000 for your recoveries, congrats on a job well done. Dave www.fallingrocks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Utas Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 6:52 PM To: Meteorite-list Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale ...And what's that supposed to mean? On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 3:41 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Geez Jason, > > You must be on restriction or something! > > Sonny > > > > -Original Message- > From: Jason Utas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Meteorite-list > Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 3:11 pm > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale > > > > > > > Hola, > I've heard that you fellows fetched over a kilogram. > $50/g isn't a bad price for you to set, considering that you both > probably spent less than $1,500 all told for the trip, each. > I mean, it's not like you had to deal with any dangers or risk. You > left when you knew meteorites had been found, and travelled to a safe, > civilized location. I suppose there might have been a risk in not > being allowed to search private land, but, honestly...that's not > stopped any hunters I know on this list. > Anyway, it sounds like nice material. Like every other fresh fall > from the past...well, since forever. > As to your stating that you "would say it is up to the individuals > that took the time and effort to get out in the field to do the > recovery work," well, fine. I just wonder why the hunters who went to > Kilabo, Bensour, Thuathe, Chergach, Bassikounou, and even Park Forest, > charged substantially less than you are supposedly asking for this > fall. > As your friend, fellow hunter, and prospective customer, I'd like to > know why. Because it looks like you're set to make $25,000 off of > this, along with McCartney (another $25,000). Why do I, and other > meteorite collectors, owe you that? > Regards, > Jason > > On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 2:14 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> I would have responded earlier but our Internet connection was not > > the >> >> best. We just flew in from Canada today. What is a fair price per > > gram? I >> >> would say it is up to the individuals that took the time and effort > > to get >> >> out in the field to do the recovery work. I knew before leaving home > > that if >> >> we were lucky enough to find any material that we would have to leave > > it in >> >> Canada and go through the proper channels to obtain this legally. > > Most of >> >> the area where the fall took place has been locked up with NO > > TRESPASSING >> >> signs posted. We were fortunate enough to negotiate a deal with the > > owners >> >> of some private property. We have been told the chances of any > > material >> >> leaving Canada with a permit is almost impossible. How nice would it > > be to >> >> have a new Canadian meteorite from a witnessed fall with proper >> documentation? This is my first time to pick up a meteorite as fresh > > as >> >> this. You can almost rub off the fusion crust and the interior is > > bright >> >> white. I will have a picture showing the interior of the meteorite > > posted >> >> within the next couple of days. So lets keep our fingers crossed to > > have >> >> these meteorites in the U.S.A within 6 months to a year. I was > > thinking >> >> about playing a joke on Mccartney and placing a meteorite in his > > backpack to >> >> see if he could make it through customs and once we made it into the > > U.S.A >> >> telling McCartney "Hey half of the meteorite is mine!" Just teasing. >> >> >> Thanks, >> Sonny >> __ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Results
No, buyers' premium was 20% and California sales tax (without a resale number) is 8%. ...So add 28% Jason On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 4:49 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > OMG - should have bid. > Do these include the buyers premium? > Matt > Matt Morgan > Mile High Meteorites > http://www.mhmeteorites.com > P.O. Box 151293 > Lakewood, CO 80215 USA > > -Original Message- > From: "Jason Utas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:17:18 > To: Meteorite-list > Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Results > > > Hello All, > I read through the legal print in the front of the catalog, and it > looks like it's ok to post the results publicly. > > 1086 - 315g Gibeon Sphere - $475 > 1087 - 140g Gibeon Egg - $190 > 1088 - 490g Gibeon Slice - $375 > 1089 - 321g Gibeon Slice - Pass > 1090 - 2 Gibeon Slices (281 + 262g) - $325 > 1091 - Gibeon Part-Slice $475 > 1092 - 552g Gibeon Slice - $400 > 1093 - 2.6kg Gibeon Cut Block - $1,700 > 1094 - 7,150g Gibeon Slice - $3.250 - Pass > 1095 - 1,361g Muonionalusta End - $500 > 1096 - 136g Chinga Slice - $120 > 1097 - 494g Seymchan Slice - $425 > 1098 - 121g Udei Station End - $200 (!) > 1099 - 276g New NWA Iron (silicated) slice - $600 > 1100 - "7lb" Sikhote Shrapnel - listed as "oriented" - $1,500 > 1101 - 1,304g Sikhote Individual - $2,900 (!) > 1102 - 8kg Corroded Sikhote (*no* remaining fusion crust) - $6,500 - Pass > 1103 - 334g Fukang Part-Slice (shattered crystals) - $3,750 > 1104 - 520g Esquel Part-Slice - $12,000 > 1105 - Pair of Campo Ends (206g and 430g, one silicated) - ~$400 - > Pass (Passed at $400 for 600g of Camporight)\ > 1106 - 1,886g Campo Indiv (nice) - $300 > 1107 - 3,146g Canyon Diablo (fairly nondescript) - $1,300 > 1108 - 42.5lb Campo (good shape, no glypts - corroded) - missed price > 1109 - 1,220 lb butt-ugly Campo - $19,000 > 1110 - 127 lb Canyon Diablo - Special Note > This iron looks great in the auction photo. It's not. The back of it > was...ruined somehow. It looks like the owner sandblasted the back > down to a quasi-3D widmanstatten surface, and then coated it in some > sort of plastic/sealant that tinged it all (only the backside, but the > entire backside) a nasty light-green hue, and gave it a smooth, shiny, > plastic-ey look and feel. I don't know what the hell s/he did to it, > but we decided ahead of time that we didn't want it, no matter the > cost. > That said - $18,000 > - 385g Slice of NWA 1941 L6 (the "blue" one Michael Farmer's been > selling) - $950 (!) > 1112 - 34mm diameter NWA XXX Sphere (no weight given, listed as NWA > 869, but not NWA 869) - $350 > 1113 - 1,994g NWA XXX Sphere (4in diameter, again listed as NWA 869, > but a different meteorite) - $1,800 > 1114 - 2.0g Murchison frag, no crust - $400 (!) > 1115 - Arroyo Malo 75.1g - $500 (slightly less than $50/g) > 1116 - Arroyo Malo 202.5g - $850 (again, somewhat less than $50/g) > 1117 - Libyan Glass Pair (183g light + 77g dark) - missed the number, > at least $400 > 1118 - 1,451g Libyan Glass (numerous large chips) - $1,400 > 1119 - Collection of Six Lunar and Martian Meteorites - 0.05g to > 0.054g in weight - $1,800 (...I estimate its value, based on the > specimens, their weights, and current market prices, at no more than > $300) > 1120 - Set of Five Medals w/ Meteorites (Campo/869/482/2995/2986) - $275 > 1121 - 1.85g DaG 476 Slice - $950 > 1122 - 2.718g NWA 4880 Sherg. Indiv. (broken) - $4,500 (!) > 1123 - 5.85g of LA002 - $9,000 (!) > 1124 - 90.5g Shergottite Indiv - Special Note > This stone had a chip not pictured - just above and to the left of > what would be visible in the photographs posted in the auction.It was > a fresh chip - looked as though a curious nomad had knocked the corner > (unfortunately the leading edge) off of it. Go figure. My only > question regarding the stone was that the edge of the chip was painted > black. It was definitely some sort of paint; not only was it less > glossy and darker in colour than the rest of the stone, but...it > rubbed off. The only possible explanation we could come up with was > that it had been put on the stone so as to hide the edge of the chip > in the auction photograph. It is visible in the photograph just to > the left of the top of the stone as a thin edge of grey of a different > hue (slightly) than the rest of the stone, running about half-way down > that top-left side. It looks like a result of the lighting in the > photo, but it's definitely not that... > Very odd. - $30,000 - Pass > 1125 - 1.3308g Dhofar 1428 Slice (Feldspathic IMB) - $1,600 > 1126 - 1.0064g DaG 400 Part-Slice (Anorthositic Breccia) - $1,400 > > So...nothing -too- surprising. The low end was the Udei, at $1.67/g, > and the high-end, well - a good few things. The bidders who went over > market tended not to be meteorite enthusiasts; I heard a phone-bidder > assuring her client that the $950 purchase of the $385g slice of NWA > 1941 (L6) was a "very good deal." Granted, it was a nice slice, but > if y
Re: [meteorite-list] Market Prices
Hi all - For the last several years I hav had a different way of thinking about money. Let me try to explain. It appears that we've had a major impact megatsunami about 1 per 1000 years in the recent past. Given the current coastal population densities, the next one should kill about 60,000,000. Divide 60,000,000 by 1,000, and you end up with 6,000 per year. Divide 6,000 by 365 days, and you can take it down to hours and minutes if you like. Then add Tunguska class impactors at the rate of 1 per 100 years. Of course, if it hits someplace remote, say farmlands or mid ocean, then you only loose a few, close to 0. But if it hits a city, you loose 20,000,000. So what are the chances of a city being hit? how much of the Earth's surface is urban? Then divide, and add to the 6,000. Oh, and then there's climate collapse from a cometary dust veil. The population is 6,000,000,000, and how many die due to starvation? 100,000? 200,000? 1,000,000? 500,000,000? And what is the frequency of occurrence? Break it down to a yearly number and add to the two numbers above. And how many dead in a large land impact, and how often? At one point I tried to break it down to lives lost per year, then to per day, then to per hour. Your numbers may vary, but then what do I know? E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas PS - As far as meteorites go, discretionary spending is way down. (I just had an order for 2 copies of my new book "Amazing Stories" canceled.) Some friends report sales running about 10% of normal. In economic terms, a panic has occurred, and the velocity of the money supply has fallen way off. Obama is ready to hit the ground running January 20, and confidence should return, and fairly quickly, but many people have been hurt, and hurt bad. Then there's always the unforeseen to think about. A little sci-fi. There is no doubt that videos increase the market value of falls, as do major "brand" names. Right now we have electronic picture frames, perhaps someday we'll have electronic video display boxes. Here's to better days ahead, Ed __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 7, 2008
Hi Michael You mention that the pictured Malotas might be the only complete individual, but actually the main mass of 4712g is an individual which is now in my collection. best regards Eduardo -Original Message- From: Michael Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Meteorite List Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 03:38:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 7, 2008 > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_7_2008.html > > > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Results
Yes, however, the Esquel (mine) did not sell, it did not meet reserve. I am sick at these prices, I could have done better on ebay. I paid $2000.00 for the 2 kilo sphere, now with seller premium, I lost at least $200 and the time to mess with it. Mike --- On Sun, 12/7/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Results > To: "Jason Utas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Meteorite-list" > > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 5:49 PM > OMG - should have bid. > Do these include the buyers premium? > Matt > Matt Morgan > Mile High Meteorites > http://www.mhmeteorites.com > P.O. Box 151293 > Lakewood, CO 80215 USA > > -Original Message- > From: "Jason Utas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:17:18 > To: > Meteorite-list > Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Results > > > Hello All, > I read through the legal print in the front of the catalog, > and it > looks like it's ok to post the results publicly. > > 1086 - 315g Gibeon Sphere - $475 > 1087 - 140g Gibeon Egg - $190 > 1088 - 490g Gibeon Slice - $375 > 1089 - 321g Gibeon Slice - Pass > 1090 - 2 Gibeon Slices (281 + 262g) - $325 > 1091 - Gibeon Part-Slice $475 > 1092 - 552g Gibeon Slice - $400 > 1093 - 2.6kg Gibeon Cut Block - $1,700 > 1094 - 7,150g Gibeon Slice - $3.250 - Pass > 1095 - 1,361g Muonionalusta End - $500 > 1096 - 136g Chinga Slice - $120 > 1097 - 494g Seymchan Slice - $425 > 1098 - 121g Udei Station End - $200 (!) > 1099 - 276g New NWA Iron (silicated) slice - $600 > 1100 - "7lb" Sikhote Shrapnel - listed as > "oriented" - $1,500 > 1101 - 1,304g Sikhote Individual - $2,900 (!) > 1102 - 8kg Corroded Sikhote (*no* remaining fusion crust) - > $6,500 - Pass > 1103 - 334g Fukang Part-Slice (shattered crystals) - $3,750 > 1104 - 520g Esquel Part-Slice - $12,000 > 1105 - Pair of Campo Ends (206g and 430g, one silicated) - > ~$400 - > Pass (Passed at $400 for 600g of Camporight)\ > 1106 - 1,886g Campo Indiv (nice) - $300 > 1107 - 3,146g Canyon Diablo (fairly nondescript) - $1,300 > 1108 - 42.5lb Campo (good shape, no glypts - corroded) - > missed price > 1109 - 1,220 lb butt-ugly Campo - $19,000 > 1110 - 127 lb Canyon Diablo - Special Note > This iron looks great in the auction photo. It's not. > The back of it > was...ruined somehow. It looks like the owner sandblasted > the back > down to a quasi-3D widmanstatten surface, and then coated > it in some > sort of plastic/sealant that tinged it all (only the > backside, but the > entire backside) a nasty light-green hue, and gave it a > smooth, shiny, > plastic-ey look and feel. I don't know what the hell > s/he did to it, > but we decided ahead of time that we didn't want it, no > matter the > cost. > That said - $18,000 > - 385g Slice of NWA 1941 L6 (the "blue" one > Michael Farmer's been > selling) - $950 (!) > 1112 - 34mm diameter NWA XXX Sphere (no weight given, > listed as NWA > 869, but not NWA 869) - $350 > 1113 - 1,994g NWA XXX Sphere (4in diameter, again listed as > NWA 869, > but a different meteorite) - $1,800 > 1114 - 2.0g Murchison frag, no crust - $400 (!) > 1115 - Arroyo Malo 75.1g - $500 (slightly less than $50/g) > 1116 - Arroyo Malo 202.5g - $850 (again, somewhat less than > $50/g) > 1117 - Libyan Glass Pair (183g light + 77g dark) - missed > the number, > at least $400 > 1118 - 1,451g Libyan Glass (numerous large chips) - $1,400 > 1119 - Collection of Six Lunar and Martian Meteorites - > 0.05g to > 0.054g in weight - $1,800 (...I estimate its value, based > on the > specimens, their weights, and current market prices, at no > more than > $300) > 1120 - Set of Five Medals w/ Meteorites > (Campo/869/482/2995/2986) - $275 > 1121 - 1.85g DaG 476 Slice - $950 > 1122 - 2.718g NWA 4880 Sherg. Indiv. (broken) - $4,500 (!) > 1123 - 5.85g of LA002 - $9,000 (!) > 1124 - 90.5g Shergottite Indiv - Special Note > This stone had a chip not pictured - just above and to the > left of > what would be visible in the photographs posted in the > auction.It was > a fresh chip - looked as though a curious nomad had knocked > the corner > (unfortunately the leading edge) off of it. Go figure. My > only > question regarding the stone was that the edge of the chip > was painted > black. It was definitely some sort of paint; not only was > it less > glossy and darker in colour than the rest of the stone, > but...it > rubbed off. The only possible explanation we could come up > with was > that it had been put on the stone so as to hide the edge of > the chip > in the auction photograph. It is visible in the photograph > just to > the left of the top of the stone as a thin edge of grey of > a different > hue (slightly) than the rest of the stone, running about > half-way down > that top-left side. It looks like a result of the lighting > in the > photo, but it's definitely not that... > Very odd. - $30,000 - Pass > 1125 - 1.3308g Dhofar 1428 Slice (Feldspathic IMB) - $1,
Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Results
OMG - should have bid. Do these include the buyers premium? Matt Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA -Original Message- From: "Jason Utas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:17:18 To: Meteorite-list Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Results Hello All, I read through the legal print in the front of the catalog, and it looks like it's ok to post the results publicly. 1086 - 315g Gibeon Sphere - $475 1087 - 140g Gibeon Egg - $190 1088 - 490g Gibeon Slice - $375 1089 - 321g Gibeon Slice - Pass 1090 - 2 Gibeon Slices (281 + 262g) - $325 1091 - Gibeon Part-Slice $475 1092 - 552g Gibeon Slice - $400 1093 - 2.6kg Gibeon Cut Block - $1,700 1094 - 7,150g Gibeon Slice - $3.250 - Pass 1095 - 1,361g Muonionalusta End - $500 1096 - 136g Chinga Slice - $120 1097 - 494g Seymchan Slice - $425 1098 - 121g Udei Station End - $200 (!) 1099 - 276g New NWA Iron (silicated) slice - $600 1100 - "7lb" Sikhote Shrapnel - listed as "oriented" - $1,500 1101 - 1,304g Sikhote Individual - $2,900 (!) 1102 - 8kg Corroded Sikhote (*no* remaining fusion crust) - $6,500 - Pass 1103 - 334g Fukang Part-Slice (shattered crystals) - $3,750 1104 - 520g Esquel Part-Slice - $12,000 1105 - Pair of Campo Ends (206g and 430g, one silicated) - ~$400 - Pass (Passed at $400 for 600g of Camporight)\ 1106 - 1,886g Campo Indiv (nice) - $300 1107 - 3,146g Canyon Diablo (fairly nondescript) - $1,300 1108 - 42.5lb Campo (good shape, no glypts - corroded) - missed price 1109 - 1,220 lb butt-ugly Campo - $19,000 1110 - 127 lb Canyon Diablo - Special Note This iron looks great in the auction photo. It's not. The back of it was...ruined somehow. It looks like the owner sandblasted the back down to a quasi-3D widmanstatten surface, and then coated it in some sort of plastic/sealant that tinged it all (only the backside, but the entire backside) a nasty light-green hue, and gave it a smooth, shiny, plastic-ey look and feel. I don't know what the hell s/he did to it, but we decided ahead of time that we didn't want it, no matter the cost. That said - $18,000 - 385g Slice of NWA 1941 L6 (the "blue" one Michael Farmer's been selling) - $950 (!) 1112 - 34mm diameter NWA XXX Sphere (no weight given, listed as NWA 869, but not NWA 869) - $350 1113 - 1,994g NWA XXX Sphere (4in diameter, again listed as NWA 869, but a different meteorite) - $1,800 1114 - 2.0g Murchison frag, no crust - $400 (!) 1115 - Arroyo Malo 75.1g - $500 (slightly less than $50/g) 1116 - Arroyo Malo 202.5g - $850 (again, somewhat less than $50/g) 1117 - Libyan Glass Pair (183g light + 77g dark) - missed the number, at least $400 1118 - 1,451g Libyan Glass (numerous large chips) - $1,400 1119 - Collection of Six Lunar and Martian Meteorites - 0.05g to 0.054g in weight - $1,800 (...I estimate its value, based on the specimens, their weights, and current market prices, at no more than $300) 1120 - Set of Five Medals w/ Meteorites (Campo/869/482/2995/2986) - $275 1121 - 1.85g DaG 476 Slice - $950 1122 - 2.718g NWA 4880 Sherg. Indiv. (broken) - $4,500 (!) 1123 - 5.85g of LA002 - $9,000 (!) 1124 - 90.5g Shergottite Indiv - Special Note This stone had a chip not pictured - just above and to the left of what would be visible in the photographs posted in the auction.It was a fresh chip - looked as though a curious nomad had knocked the corner (unfortunately the leading edge) off of it. Go figure. My only question regarding the stone was that the edge of the chip was painted black. It was definitely some sort of paint; not only was it less glossy and darker in colour than the rest of the stone, but...it rubbed off. The only possible explanation we could come up with was that it had been put on the stone so as to hide the edge of the chip in the auction photograph. It is visible in the photograph just to the left of the top of the stone as a thin edge of grey of a different hue (slightly) than the rest of the stone, running about half-way down that top-left side. It looks like a result of the lighting in the photo, but it's definitely not that... Very odd. - $30,000 - Pass 1125 - 1.3308g Dhofar 1428 Slice (Feldspathic IMB) - $1,600 1126 - 1.0064g DaG 400 Part-Slice (Anorthositic Breccia) - $1,400 So...nothing -too- surprising. The low end was the Udei, at $1.67/g, and the high-end, well - a good few things. The bidders who went over market tended not to be meteorite enthusiasts; I heard a phone-bidder assuring her client that the $950 purchase of the $385g slice of NWA 1941 (L6) was a "very good deal." Granted, it was a nice slice, but if you take the 20% commission and 8% tax into account for it (and all other items), well...that Sikhote was nothing special, and it cost the buyer close to $4/g... It looked like the buyers generally went with what looked flashier or more interesting. The Murchison was listed as a piece of a comet, and the NWA 1941 was listed as the "Blue Galaxy Meteorite" - so
Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD
Hello Jeff, Thank you for the clarification. If I read correctly, I should be stating "Officially Approved classification submitted in the Meteoritical Bulletin"? My main point was that the science was done on NWA 4223, and that it is an approved classification. So, if anyone is interested in a great meteorite, NWA 4223 may be the one! Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault - Original Message - From: "Jeff Grossman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD A meteorite in the Bulletin IS "officially approved," which means its name and status as a real meteorite are formally recognized by the Meteoritical Society. It also means the meteorite has been classified and that a type specimen exists. It also means the classification that was done seems reasonable and authoritative to the committee. However, there is no certification or sanctioning of the classification. In other words, the Meteoritical Society does not in any way certify that Irving's classification is the correct or best one. Approval only implies that he was qualified to classify it and that the classification looked reasonable. Jeff Adam Hupe wrote: Dear List, I guess the terms "approved" and listed in the "Meteoritical Bulletin" might be more accurate. For collecting purposes, buyers consider approved stones to be official. This peer-reviewed system is certainly better than self-pairing or not having the stones studied at all. Best Regards, Adam __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD
A meteorite in the Bulletin IS "officially approved," which means its name and status as a real meteorite are formally recognized by the Meteoritical Society. It also means the meteorite has been classified and that a type specimen exists. It also means the classification that was done seems reasonable and authoritative to the committee. However, there is no certification or sanctioning of the classification. In other words, the Meteoritical Society does not in any way certify that Irving's classification is the correct or best one. Approval only implies that he was qualified to classify it and that the classification looked reasonable. Jeff Adam Hupe wrote: Dear List, I guess the terms "approved" and listed in the "Meteoritical Bulletin" might be more accurate. For collecting purposes, buyers consider approved stones to be official. This peer-reviewed system is certainly better than self-pairing or not having the stones studied at all. Best Regards, Adam __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Darryl, Rants? At least I give you the courtesy of addressing everything you say. When one decides to...skipparts of a message he (or she) is attempting to refute, it simply gives the impression that there are things they would prefer not to have to (or can't) debate, probably because it wouldn't support their claims. As far as I'm concerned, if you can't deal with a single page of text, it's your problem, not mine. With regards to your statement, no, not really. You referred to "low-end numbers being bandied about," without acknowledging my high estimate for Park Forest. Which would have rendered your entire message a moot point, had you taken it into account. You were referring directly to my post. Hardly "standing alone." You might also note that your message was a direct reply to me, as well as to the meteorite-list. I know; I was there. The estimate was $500-700, but it wouldn't fetch an initial price ofI forget the price at which it was initially started. The auctioneer let it down to $200. Then $190. The final price was $200 - a mere $1.67/g. Jason On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 4:08 PM, Darryl Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Yeah Jason, I didn't refer to your email in its entirely---a tall order > given the length of such rants. Nor was I wasn't responding to "your > message" as there were other contributors to the thread, and my statement > kind of stood on its own as a general review of the currents in valuation. > Jeez. > > For the record, Mike Farmer's report of Udei Station having sold for just > $2/gram at Bonhams today. > > ...that's right. My consignment. Competitively priced. > > Collectors are not hurt by a shake-out of the outliers---those mega-low and > mega-high anomalies--I actually believe we would all ultimately benefit. > > > Sincerely / Darryl > > > > > On Dec 7, 2008, at 5:57 PM, Jason Utas wrote: > >> Darryl, Darren, All, >> >> You referred to the low prices mentioned in my email when I had >> included Park Forest. If you didn't mention Park Forest, you didn't >> refer to my email in its entirety, and didn't clarify. How was I >> supposed to know you were only responding to half of my message? >> >>> As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely believe >>> that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell material, >>> that >>> it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing in the >>> marketplace. >> >> So we should place some sort of value on meteorites above what the >> finders ask for them becausewell, I can see why you as a dealer >> would say this -- but from a collectors point of view, your statement >> makes no sense whatsoever. Or from a logical standpoint. Why should >> rocks have some inherent monetary value? It makes no sense >> whatsoever. >> That said, if you, as a dealer/supplier decide that they should have >> some arbitrary value, and price what you sell accordingly...well, the >> final decision rests in my hands, as the buyer. You can ask for >> whatever you think they're worth, but unless the collectors on the >> other side agree with you, it doesn't matter. Dealers only have the >> ability to suggest prices. It's the collectors/buyers who actually >> set them. >> >>> I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered >>> Chergach >>> at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely offer it >>> for >>> $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. >> >> Responsible? I'd say your fellow collectors would be happy, and >> content with the fact that they could afford specimens twice as large >> at the same cost as the ones they just bought. >> >> In fact, anyone reading this thread should now know that if they >> bought any from you, the reason they don't own a specimen twice as >> large is because you thought it would be irresponsible to only take a >> 200% mark-up. >> >> I'd be pissed-off, big time. >> >>> Whether we can >>> quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect on the >>> rest of the marketplace. They create their own "gravity." That's all >>> I'm >>> trying to say. >> >> Oh, I never said it wouldn't have an effect on the rest of the market. >> Though now that you're bringing that up, you seem to be saying that >> having lower prices would be a bad thing. Considering that most >> people in the meteorite-world are collectors, and not dealers, well, >> you're in a minority. By all means, you're entitled to your view, but >> you are in a minority. >> >> As to whether or not it's worth, say, $10/g or more...you're entitled >> to your opinion as a dealer, and I'm sure that if you get your hands >> on some, you'll charge what you like. As said, I, as a potential >> buyer, will simply refrain from buying any and voice my opinion that >> way...as I'm sure others will as well. I've heard reports that the >> tkw could be well over 200kg or more; if, after a mere week of amateur >> hunting in sub-zero tempera
[meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction Results
Hello All, I read through the legal print in the front of the catalog, and it looks like it's ok to post the results publicly. 1086 - 315g Gibeon Sphere - $475 1087 - 140g Gibeon Egg - $190 1088 - 490g Gibeon Slice - $375 1089 - 321g Gibeon Slice - Pass 1090 - 2 Gibeon Slices (281 + 262g) - $325 1091 - Gibeon Part-Slice $475 1092 - 552g Gibeon Slice - $400 1093 - 2.6kg Gibeon Cut Block - $1,700 1094 - 7,150g Gibeon Slice - $3.250 - Pass 1095 - 1,361g Muonionalusta End - $500 1096 - 136g Chinga Slice - $120 1097 - 494g Seymchan Slice - $425 1098 - 121g Udei Station End - $200 (!) 1099 - 276g New NWA Iron (silicated) slice - $600 1100 - "7lb" Sikhote Shrapnel - listed as "oriented" - $1,500 1101 - 1,304g Sikhote Individual - $2,900 (!) 1102 - 8kg Corroded Sikhote (*no* remaining fusion crust) - $6,500 - Pass 1103 - 334g Fukang Part-Slice (shattered crystals) - $3,750 1104 - 520g Esquel Part-Slice - $12,000 1105 - Pair of Campo Ends (206g and 430g, one silicated) - ~$400 - Pass (Passed at $400 for 600g of Camporight)\ 1106 - 1,886g Campo Indiv (nice) - $300 1107 - 3,146g Canyon Diablo (fairly nondescript) - $1,300 1108 - 42.5lb Campo (good shape, no glypts - corroded) - missed price 1109 - 1,220 lb butt-ugly Campo - $19,000 1110 - 127 lb Canyon Diablo - Special Note This iron looks great in the auction photo. It's not. The back of it was...ruined somehow. It looks like the owner sandblasted the back down to a quasi-3D widmanstatten surface, and then coated it in some sort of plastic/sealant that tinged it all (only the backside, but the entire backside) a nasty light-green hue, and gave it a smooth, shiny, plastic-ey look and feel. I don't know what the hell s/he did to it, but we decided ahead of time that we didn't want it, no matter the cost. That said - $18,000 - 385g Slice of NWA 1941 L6 (the "blue" one Michael Farmer's been selling) - $950 (!) 1112 - 34mm diameter NWA XXX Sphere (no weight given, listed as NWA 869, but not NWA 869) - $350 1113 - 1,994g NWA XXX Sphere (4in diameter, again listed as NWA 869, but a different meteorite) - $1,800 1114 - 2.0g Murchison frag, no crust - $400 (!) 1115 - Arroyo Malo 75.1g - $500 (slightly less than $50/g) 1116 - Arroyo Malo 202.5g - $850 (again, somewhat less than $50/g) 1117 - Libyan Glass Pair (183g light + 77g dark) - missed the number, at least $400 1118 - 1,451g Libyan Glass (numerous large chips) - $1,400 1119 - Collection of Six Lunar and Martian Meteorites - 0.05g to 0.054g in weight - $1,800 (...I estimate its value, based on the specimens, their weights, and current market prices, at no more than $300) 1120 - Set of Five Medals w/ Meteorites (Campo/869/482/2995/2986) - $275 1121 - 1.85g DaG 476 Slice - $950 1122 - 2.718g NWA 4880 Sherg. Indiv. (broken) - $4,500 (!) 1123 - 5.85g of LA002 - $9,000 (!) 1124 - 90.5g Shergottite Indiv - Special Note This stone had a chip not pictured - just above and to the left of what would be visible in the photographs posted in the auction.It was a fresh chip - looked as though a curious nomad had knocked the corner (unfortunately the leading edge) off of it. Go figure. My only question regarding the stone was that the edge of the chip was painted black. It was definitely some sort of paint; not only was it less glossy and darker in colour than the rest of the stone, but...it rubbed off. The only possible explanation we could come up with was that it had been put on the stone so as to hide the edge of the chip in the auction photograph. It is visible in the photograph just to the left of the top of the stone as a thin edge of grey of a different hue (slightly) than the rest of the stone, running about half-way down that top-left side. It looks like a result of the lighting in the photo, but it's definitely not that... Very odd. - $30,000 - Pass 1125 - 1.3308g Dhofar 1428 Slice (Feldspathic IMB) - $1,600 1126 - 1.0064g DaG 400 Part-Slice (Anorthositic Breccia) - $1,400 So...nothing -too- surprising. The low end was the Udei, at $1.67/g, and the high-end, well - a good few things. The bidders who went over market tended not to be meteorite enthusiasts; I heard a phone-bidder assuring her client that the $950 purchase of the $385g slice of NWA 1941 (L6) was a "very good deal." Granted, it was a nice slice, but if you take the 20% commission and 8% tax into account for it (and all other items), well...that Sikhote was nothing special, and it cost the buyer close to $4/g... It looked like the buyers generally went with what looked flashier or more interesting. The Murchison was listed as a piece of a comet, and the NWA 1941 was listed as the "Blue Galaxy Meteorite" - something like that. The better the listing made things sound, the more they fetched. Something like Udei, which looked particularly bad in their case, which, in all fairness, didn't have adequate lighting for such a specimen, attracted little-to-no attention from...anyone. Regards, Jason _
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Yeah Jason, I didn't refer to your email in its entirely---a tall order given the length of such rants. Nor was I wasn't responding to "your message" as there were other contributors to the thread, and my statement kind of stood on its own as a general review of the currents in valuation. Jeez. For the record, Mike Farmer's report of Udei Station having sold for just $2/gram at Bonhams today. ...that's right. My consignment. Competitively priced. Collectors are not hurt by a shake-out of the outliers---those mega- low and mega-high anomalies--I actually believe we would all ultimately benefit. Sincerely / Darryl On Dec 7, 2008, at 5:57 PM, Jason Utas wrote: Darryl, Darren, All, You referred to the low prices mentioned in my email when I had included Park Forest. If you didn't mention Park Forest, you didn't refer to my email in its entirety, and didn't clarify. How was I supposed to know you were only responding to half of my message? As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely believe that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell material, that it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing in the marketplace. So we should place some sort of value on meteorites above what the finders ask for them becausewell, I can see why you as a dealer would say this -- but from a collectors point of view, your statement makes no sense whatsoever. Or from a logical standpoint. Why should rocks have some inherent monetary value? It makes no sense whatsoever. That said, if you, as a dealer/supplier decide that they should have some arbitrary value, and price what you sell accordingly...well, the final decision rests in my hands, as the buyer. You can ask for whatever you think they're worth, but unless the collectors on the other side agree with you, it doesn't matter. Dealers only have the ability to suggest prices. It's the collectors/buyers who actually set them. I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered Chergach at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely offer it for $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. Responsible? I'd say your fellow collectors would be happy, and content with the fact that they could afford specimens twice as large at the same cost as the ones they just bought. In fact, anyone reading this thread should now know that if they bought any from you, the reason they don't own a specimen twice as large is because you thought it would be irresponsible to only take a 200% mark-up. I'd be pissed-off, big time. Whether we can quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect on the rest of the marketplace. They create their own "gravity." That's all I'm trying to say. Oh, I never said it wouldn't have an effect on the rest of the market. Though now that you're bringing that up, you seem to be saying that having lower prices would be a bad thing. Considering that most people in the meteorite-world are collectors, and not dealers, well, you're in a minority. By all means, you're entitled to your view, but you are in a minority. As to whether or not it's worth, say, $10/g or more...you're entitled to your opinion as a dealer, and I'm sure that if you get your hands on some, you'll charge what you like. As said, I, as a potential buyer, will simply refrain from buying any and voice my opinion that way...as I'm sure others will as well. I've heard reports that the tkw could be well over 200kg or more; if, after a mere week of amateur hunting in sub-zero temperatures and restricted access, 40+kg were recovered...how much of any fall is ever collected in the first week? Maybe 10%? Maybe 20? - Sorry for the lateish reply, but I was at the Bonhams Auction. Jason On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 9:26 AM, Darryl Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Jason, Small detailI never mentioned Park Forest. And speaking of being "at a loss for words," I don't quite know how to respond to your unbridled attack on "my" point of view regarding the same(?!) As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely believe that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell material, that it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing in the marketplace. I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered Chergach at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely offer it for $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. Whether we can quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect on the rest of the marketplace. They create their own "gravity." That's all I'm trying to say. All best / Darryl On Dec 7, 2008, at 11:02 AM, Jason Utas wrote: Darryl, Low-end numbers? Even Park Forest which was witnessed, caught on numerous videos, and fell in a densely populated urban environment - in what
Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD
Dear List, I guess the terms "approved" and listed in the "Meteoritical Bulletin" might be more accurate. For collecting purposes, buyers consider approved stones to be official. This peer-reviewed system is certainly better than self-pairing or not having the stones studied at all. Best Regards, Adam __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
I had a dream, Jason. Meteorites were free for everyone! ...but nobody was going to look for them anymore I'm only not sure yet, whether it was a good dream or a nightmare. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Jason Utas Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Dezember 2008 23:58 An: Meteorite-list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Darryl, Darren, All, You referred to the low prices mentioned in my email when I had included Park Forest. If you didn't mention Park Forest, you didn't refer to my email in its entirety, and didn't clarify. How was I supposed to know you were only responding to half of my message? > As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely believe > that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell material, that > it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing in the > marketplace. So we should place some sort of value on meteorites above what the finders ask for them becausewell, I can see why you as a dealer would say this -- but from a collectors point of view, your statement makes no sense whatsoever. Or from a logical standpoint. Why should rocks have some inherent monetary value? It makes no sense whatsoever. That said, if you, as a dealer/supplier decide that they should have some arbitrary value, and price what you sell accordingly...well, the final decision rests in my hands, as the buyer. You can ask for whatever you think they're worth, but unless the collectors on the other side agree with you, it doesn't matter. Dealers only have the ability to suggest prices. It's the collectors/buyers who actually set them. > I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered Chergach > at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely offer it for > $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. Responsible? I'd say your fellow collectors would be happy, and content with the fact that they could afford specimens twice as large at the same cost as the ones they just bought. In fact, anyone reading this thread should now know that if they bought any from you, the reason they don't own a specimen twice as large is because you thought it would be irresponsible to only take a 200% mark-up. I'd be pissed-off, big time. >Whether we can > quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect on the > rest of the marketplace. They create their own "gravity." That's all I'm > trying to say. Oh, I never said it wouldn't have an effect on the rest of the market. Though now that you're bringing that up, you seem to be saying that having lower prices would be a bad thing. Considering that most people in the meteorite-world are collectors, and not dealers, well, you're in a minority. By all means, you're entitled to your view, but you are in a minority. As to whether or not it's worth, say, $10/g or more...you're entitled to your opinion as a dealer, and I'm sure that if you get your hands on some, you'll charge what you like. As said, I, as a potential buyer, will simply refrain from buying any and voice my opinion that way...as I'm sure others will as well. I've heard reports that the tkw could be well over 200kg or more; if, after a mere week of amateur hunting in sub-zero temperatures and restricted access, 40+kg were recovered...how much of any fall is ever collected in the first week? Maybe 10%? Maybe 20? - Sorry for the lateish reply, but I was at the Bonhams Auction. Jason __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale
OK, I understand that everyone is welcome to discuss freely on this list, but for the love of god people.. enough is enough. We won't see anything (legal) from this fall here in the U.S. for a good 6 months, atleast. When (and if) those guys get permits to export the material they found, I am sure they are quite capable of photographing, cataloging, and determining fair prices for their loot based off of the expenses they incured as a result of the trip, pysical labor.. plus room for profit (well deserved). Ryan -Original Message- From: Jason Utas To: Meteorite-list Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 3:11 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale Hola, I've heard that you fellows fetched over a kilogram. $50/g isn't a bad price for you to set, considering that you both probably spent less than $1,500 all told for the trip, each. I mean, it's not like you had to deal with any dangers or risk. You left when you knew meteorites had been found, and travelled to a safe, civilized location. I suppose there might have been a risk in not being allowed to search private land, but, honestly...that's not stopped any hunters I know on this list. Anyway, it sounds like nice material. Like every other fresh fall from the past...well, since forever. As to your stating that you "would say it is up to the individuals that took the time and effort to get out in the field to do the recovery work," well, fine. I just wonder why the hunters who went to Kilabo, Bensour, Thuathe, Chergach, Bassikounou, and even Park Forest, charged substantially less than you are supposedly asking for this fall. As your friend, fellow hunter, and prospective customer, I'd like to know why. Because it looks like you're set to make $25,000 off of this, along with McCartney (another $25,000). Why do I, and other meteorite collectors, owe you that? Regards, Jason On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 2:14 PM, wrote: > Hi All, > > I would have responded earlier but our Internet connection was not the > best. We just flew in from Canada today. What is a fair price per gram? I > would say it is up to the individuals that took the time and effort to get > out in the field to do the recovery work. I knew before leaving home that if > we were lucky enough to find any material that we would have to leave it in > Canada and go through the proper channels to obtain this legally. Most of > the area where the fall took place has been locked up with NO TRESPASSING > signs posted. We were fortunate enough to negotiate a deal with the owners > of some private property. We have been told the chances of any material > leaving Canada with a permit is almost impossible. How nice would it be to > have a new Canadian meteorite from a witnessed fall with proper > documentation? This is my first time to pick up a meteorite as fresh as > this. You can almost rub off the fusion crust and the interior is bright > white. I will have a picture showing the interior of the meteorite posted > within the next couple of days. So lets keep our fingers crossed to have > these meteorites in the U.S.A within 6 months to a year. I was thinking > about playing a joke on Mccartney and placing a meteorite in his backpack to > see if he could make it through customs and once we made it into the U.S.A > telling McCartney "Hey half of the meteorite is mine!" Just teasing. > > > Thanks, > Sonny > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale
...And what's that supposed to mean? On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 3:41 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Geez Jason, > > You must be on restriction or something! > > Sonny > > > > -Original Message- > From: Jason Utas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Meteorite-list > Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 3:11 pm > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale > > > > > > > Hola, > I've heard that you fellows fetched over a kilogram. > $50/g isn't a bad price for you to set, considering that you both > probably spent less than $1,500 all told for the trip, each. > I mean, it's not like you had to deal with any dangers or risk. You > left when you knew meteorites had been found, and travelled to a safe, > civilized location. I suppose there might have been a risk in not > being allowed to search private land, but, honestly...that's not > stopped any hunters I know on this list. > Anyway, it sounds like nice material. Like every other fresh fall > from the past...well, since forever. > As to your stating that you "would say it is up to the individuals > that took the time and effort to get out in the field to do the > recovery work," well, fine. I just wonder why the hunters who went to > Kilabo, Bensour, Thuathe, Chergach, Bassikounou, and even Park Forest, > charged substantially less than you are supposedly asking for this > fall. > As your friend, fellow hunter, and prospective customer, I'd like to > know why. Because it looks like you're set to make $25,000 off of > this, along with McCartney (another $25,000). Why do I, and other > meteorite collectors, owe you that? > Regards, > Jason > > On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 2:14 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> I would have responded earlier but our Internet connection was not > > the >> >> best. We just flew in from Canada today. What is a fair price per > > gram? I >> >> would say it is up to the individuals that took the time and effort > > to get >> >> out in the field to do the recovery work. I knew before leaving home > > that if >> >> we were lucky enough to find any material that we would have to leave > > it in >> >> Canada and go through the proper channels to obtain this legally. > > Most of >> >> the area where the fall took place has been locked up with NO > > TRESPASSING >> >> signs posted. We were fortunate enough to negotiate a deal with the > > owners >> >> of some private property. We have been told the chances of any > > material >> >> leaving Canada with a permit is almost impossible. How nice would it > > be to >> >> have a new Canadian meteorite from a witnessed fall with proper >> documentation? This is my first time to pick up a meteorite as fresh > > as >> >> this. You can almost rub off the fusion crust and the interior is > > bright >> >> white. I will have a picture showing the interior of the meteorite > > posted >> >> within the next couple of days. So lets keep our fingers crossed to > > have >> >> these meteorites in the U.S.A within 6 months to a year. I was > > thinking >> >> about playing a joke on Mccartney and placing a meteorite in his > > backpack to >> >> see if he could make it through customs and once we made it into the > > U.S.A >> >> telling McCartney "Hey half of the meteorite is mine!" Just teasing. >> >> >> Thanks, >> Sonny >> __ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Geez Jason, You must be on restriction or something! Sonny -Original Message- From: Jason Utas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Meteorite-list Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 3:11 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale Hola, I've heard that you fellows fetched over a kilogram. $50/g isn't a bad price for you to set, considering that you both probably spent less than $1,500 all told for the trip, each. I mean, it's not like you had to deal with any dangers or risk. You left when you knew meteorites had been found, and travelled to a safe, civilized location. I suppose there might have been a risk in not being allowed to search private land, but, honestly...that's not stopped any hunters I know on this list. Anyway, it sounds like nice material. Like every other fresh fall from the past...well, since forever. As to your stating that you "would say it is up to the individuals that took the time and effort to get out in the field to do the recovery work," well, fine. I just wonder why the hunters who went to Kilabo, Bensour, Thuathe, Chergach, Bassikounou, and even Park Forest, charged substantially less than you are supposedly asking for this fall. As your friend, fellow hunter, and prospective customer, I'd like to know why. Because it looks like you're set to make $25,000 off of this, along with McCartney (another $25,000). Why do I, and other meteorite collectors, owe you that? Regards, Jason On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 2:14 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi All, I would have responded earlier but our Internet connection was not the best. We just flew in from Canada today. What is a fair price per gram? I would say it is up to the individuals that took the time and effort to get out in the field to do the recovery work. I knew before leaving home that if we were lucky enough to find any material that we would have to leave it in Canada and go through the proper channels to obtain this legally. Most of the area where the fall took place has been locked up with NO TRESPASSING signs posted. We were fortunate enough to negotiate a deal with the owners of some private property. We have been told the chances of any material leaving Canada with a permit is almost impossible. How nice would it be to have a new Canadian meteorite from a witnessed fall with proper documentation? This is my first time to pick up a meteorite as fresh as this. You can almost rub off the fusion crust and the interior is bright white. I will have a picture showing the interior of the meteorite posted within the next couple of days. So lets keep our fingers crossed to have these meteorites in the U.S.A within 6 months to a year. I was thinking about playing a joke on Mccartney and placing a meteorite in his backpack to see if he could make it through customs and once we made it into the U.S.A telling McCartney "Hey half of the meteorite is mine!" Just teasing. Thanks, Sonny __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD
I guess I have to keep saying it, but there ain't no such thing as an "official" classification. NWA 4223 was classified as an "olivine-bearing diogenite" by Connolly et al. (2007: MB92), citing data submitted by Tony Irving and colleagues (who may or may not have classified it exactly the same way when they submitted it to the NomCom). This classification does not imply endorsement by any officials. It only means that the classification was deemed to be reasonable. jeff Greg Hupe wrote: Dear List Members, Last week I announced a new Olivine Diogenite, NWA 4223, that I had loaded all of the specimens on eBay. The last remaining 13 specimens will end tomorrow (Monday, December 8th). I also have some nice meteorites at great prices ending on Wednesday, most started at just 99 cents. Here is my original email: It is my pleasure to announce a NEW Olivine Diogenite, NWA 4223, the third member of this exclusive group. It took me three years to get to this point of first public offering so you know the science has been done! It has a TKW of just 329 grams and is very course-grained. I managed through eBay's site, so you can find all of the available material and "Official" classification of NWA 4223 with the "Buy it Now" feature here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault In addition to these rare specimens, I have also listed these, most at reduced prices for the holidays: NWA 1878 Mesosiderite (Fantastic etch!) NWA 1879 Mesosiderite NWA 2932 Mesosiderite NWA 869 L4-6 1kg Lots NWA 3118 CV3 100g Lot NWA 3151 Brachinite Thin Section NWA 4528 H5 500g Lot Unclassified 2kg Lots Berduc Newspaper Chergach Individual 92.1g (99% crusted) Chergach Individual 64.1g (100% crusted) Gao Individual 154g (from Haag Collection) Glorieta Pallasite Individual 13.7g Muonionalusta End Cut 76.9g (starts at just 99 cents) Muonionalusta Complete Slice 262g (started at just 99 cents) ...and several other started at just 99 cents! Good Luck winning , and "Thank You" for bidding! Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Hola, I've heard that you fellows fetched over a kilogram. $50/g isn't a bad price for you to set, considering that you both probably spent less than $1,500 all told for the trip, each. I mean, it's not like you had to deal with any dangers or risk. You left when you knew meteorites had been found, and travelled to a safe, civilized location. I suppose there might have been a risk in not being allowed to search private land, but, honestly...that's not stopped any hunters I know on this list. Anyway, it sounds like nice material. Like every other fresh fall from the past...well, since forever. As to your stating that you "would say it is up to the individuals that took the time and effort to get out in the field to do the recovery work," well, fine. I just wonder why the hunters who went to Kilabo, Bensour, Thuathe, Chergach, Bassikounou, and even Park Forest, charged substantially less than you are supposedly asking for this fall. As your friend, fellow hunter, and prospective customer, I'd like to know why. Because it looks like you're set to make $25,000 off of this, along with McCartney (another $25,000). Why do I, and other meteorite collectors, owe you that? Regards, Jason On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 2:14 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi All, > > I would have responded earlier but our Internet connection was not the > best. We just flew in from Canada today. What is a fair price per gram? I > would say it is up to the individuals that took the time and effort to get > out in the field to do the recovery work. I knew before leaving home that if > we were lucky enough to find any material that we would have to leave it in > Canada and go through the proper channels to obtain this legally. Most of > the area where the fall took place has been locked up with NO TRESPASSING > signs posted. We were fortunate enough to negotiate a deal with the owners > of some private property. We have been told the chances of any material > leaving Canada with a permit is almost impossible. How nice would it be to > have a new Canadian meteorite from a witnessed fall with proper > documentation? This is my first time to pick up a meteorite as fresh as > this. You can almost rub off the fusion crust and the interior is bright > white. I will have a picture showing the interior of the meteorite posted > within the next couple of days. So lets keep our fingers crossed to have > these meteorites in the U.S.A within 6 months to a year. I was thinking > about playing a joke on Mccartney and placing a meteorite in his backpack to > see if he could make it through customs and once we made it into the U.S.A > telling McCartney "Hey half of the meteorite is mine!" Just teasing. > > > Thanks, > Sonny > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Darryl, Darren, All, You referred to the low prices mentioned in my email when I had included Park Forest. If you didn't mention Park Forest, you didn't refer to my email in its entirety, and didn't clarify. How was I supposed to know you were only responding to half of my message? > As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely believe > that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell material, that > it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing in the > marketplace. So we should place some sort of value on meteorites above what the finders ask for them becausewell, I can see why you as a dealer would say this -- but from a collectors point of view, your statement makes no sense whatsoever. Or from a logical standpoint. Why should rocks have some inherent monetary value? It makes no sense whatsoever. That said, if you, as a dealer/supplier decide that they should have some arbitrary value, and price what you sell accordingly...well, the final decision rests in my hands, as the buyer. You can ask for whatever you think they're worth, but unless the collectors on the other side agree with you, it doesn't matter. Dealers only have the ability to suggest prices. It's the collectors/buyers who actually set them. > I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered Chergach > at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely offer it for > $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. Responsible? I'd say your fellow collectors would be happy, and content with the fact that they could afford specimens twice as large at the same cost as the ones they just bought. In fact, anyone reading this thread should now know that if they bought any from you, the reason they don't own a specimen twice as large is because you thought it would be irresponsible to only take a 200% mark-up. I'd be pissed-off, big time. >Whether we can > quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect on the > rest of the marketplace. They create their own "gravity." That's all I'm > trying to say. Oh, I never said it wouldn't have an effect on the rest of the market. Though now that you're bringing that up, you seem to be saying that having lower prices would be a bad thing. Considering that most people in the meteorite-world are collectors, and not dealers, well, you're in a minority. By all means, you're entitled to your view, but you are in a minority. As to whether or not it's worth, say, $10/g or more...you're entitled to your opinion as a dealer, and I'm sure that if you get your hands on some, you'll charge what you like. As said, I, as a potential buyer, will simply refrain from buying any and voice my opinion that way...as I'm sure others will as well. I've heard reports that the tkw could be well over 200kg or more; if, after a mere week of amateur hunting in sub-zero temperatures and restricted access, 40+kg were recovered...how much of any fall is ever collected in the first week? Maybe 10%? Maybe 20? - Sorry for the lateish reply, but I was at the Bonhams Auction. Jason On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 9:26 AM, Darryl Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Jason, > > Small detailI never mentioned Park Forest. And speaking of being "at a > loss for words," I don't quite know how to respond to your unbridled attack > on "my" point of view regarding the same(?!) > > As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely believe > that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell material, that > it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing in the > marketplace. > > I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered Chergach > at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely offer it for > $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. Whether we can > quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect on the > rest of the marketplace. They create their own "gravity." That's all I'm > trying to say. > > All best / Darryl > > > > > On Dec 7, 2008, at 11:02 AM, Jason Utas wrote: > >> Darryl, >> Low-end numbers? Even Park Forest which was witnessed, caught on >> numerous videos, and fell in a densely populated urban environment - >> in what may well be a majority of cases, hitting man-made objects, was >> selling for $30/g or so at the time of the fall - a price which has >> stayed roughly the same, if it hasn't come down a few dollars per gram >> since then. >> How much Park Forest was recovered? According to this report, roughly >> 30kg. >> >> http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Aug04/ParkForest.html >> >> More of this fall has been recovered in the past week than from the >> entire fall of Park Forest. >> It hasn't hit anything interesting, as far as we know. >> It's an ordinary chondrite - even Park Forest had some pretty >> brecciation/melt. I've heard of nothing of the sort from this fall. >> It was cau
[meteorite-list] New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Hi All, I would have responded earlier but our Internet connection was not the best. We just flew in from Canada today. What is a fair price per gram? I would say it is up to the individuals that took the time and effort to get out in the field to do the recovery work. I knew before leaving home that if we were lucky enough to find any material that we would have to leave it in Canada and go through the proper channels to obtain this legally. Most of the area where the fall took place has been locked up with NO TRESPASSING signs posted. We were fortunate enough to negotiate a deal with the owners of some private property. We have been told the chances of any material leaving Canada with a permit is almost impossible. How nice would it be to have a new Canadian meteorite from a witnessed fall with proper documentation? This is my first time to pick up a meteorite as fresh as this. You can almost rub off the fusion crust and the interior is bright white. I will have a picture showing the interior of the meteorite posted within the next couple of days. So lets keep our fingers crossed to have these meteorites in the U.S.A within 6 months to a year. I was thinking about playing a joke on Mccartney and placing a meteorite in his backpack to see if he could make it through customs and once we made it into the U.S.A telling McCartney "Hey half of the meteorite is mine!" Just teasing. Thanks, Sonny __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bonhams auction bomb
But, but,,, I thought dealers were asking too low prices? That is what I read earlier on this list. I guess collectors should take not who argues for high prices and who argues for realistic prices. Note to self. reread earlier posts today and take notes. Don Rawlings --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Michael Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Bonhams auction bomb > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 3:39 PM > Looks like the meteorites in the auction did pretty poorly > overall. > My stuff was just about given away. A piece of Udei > Station, fall, silicated iron, sold for $2.00 gram! I was > going to bid in person, but cancelled the trip due to > illness. > > Man, this sucks. > Michael Farmer > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NEW Olivine Diogenite - NWA 4223 - AD
Dear List Members, Last week I announced a new Olivine Diogenite, NWA 4223, that I had loaded all of the specimens on eBay. The last remaining 13 specimens will end tomorrow (Monday, December 8th). I also have some nice meteorites at great prices ending on Wednesday, most started at just 99 cents. Here is my original email: It is my pleasure to announce a NEW Olivine Diogenite, NWA 4223, the third member of this exclusive group. It took me three years to get to this point of first public offering so you know the science has been done! It has a TKW of just 329 grams and is very course-grained. I managed through eBay's site, so you can find all of the available material and "Official" classification of NWA 4223 with the "Buy it Now" feature here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault In addition to these rare specimens, I have also listed these, most at reduced prices for the holidays: NWA 1878 Mesosiderite (Fantastic etch!) NWA 1879 Mesosiderite NWA 2932 Mesosiderite NWA 869 L4-6 1kg Lots NWA 3118 CV3 100g Lot NWA 3151 Brachinite Thin Section NWA 4528 H5 500g Lot Unclassified 2kg Lots Berduc Newspaper Chergach Individual 92.1g (99% crusted) Chergach Individual 64.1g (100% crusted) Gao Individual 154g (from Haag Collection) Glorieta Pallasite Individual 13.7g Muonionalusta End Cut 76.9g (starts at just 99 cents) Muonionalusta Complete Slice 262g (started at just 99 cents) ...and several other started at just 99 cents! Good Luck winning , and "Thank You" for bidding! Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Going to sign off after this one, Darren, as it's now way off topic. I'm not a science fiction fan at all, really, and wouldn't know without first being told what I've written that came from the annals of Star Trek. I think it's great that you're striving for that, as we're all well served in striving for something. Best wishes in your pursuit... Dave www.fallingrocks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:22 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 15:09:31 -0500, you wrote: >We've come to think in North America that the necessities of life fall >off of trees and the advancement of civilization is some foregone conclusion. >This is unfortunately not true. Money isn't a necessary evil; it is a >vehicle which makes trading more efficient than it was in the days of >barter. You're obviously a fan of some science fiction, with the Star Trek references. My favorite possible (if possible) future societies in SF are post-scarcity, post-singularity ones. So, it may be (is) just a fantasy, but it is exactly the type of world I strive towards and wish to live in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_scarcity http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=post+scarcity+society&btnG=Google+Searc h&aq=3&oq=post+scarcity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Bonhams auction bomb
Looks like the meteorites in the auction did pretty poorly overall. My stuff was just about given away. A piece of Udei Station, fall, silicated iron, sold for $2.00 gram! I was going to bid in person, but cancelled the trip due to illness. Man, this sucks. Michael Farmer __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] : Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Time out on the HBO Meteorite channel, Hi all, This present discussion reminds me of a chapter which settled everything completely in 1941. "The Little Prince" (1941) has an excellent treatise on matters of consequence, the roll of 'government' lording over space rocks, adults and businessmen vs. the rest of us and common sense, and who owns space rocks, and the roll of the collector: http://home.pacific.net.hk/~rebylee/text/prince/13.html Happy Holidays, tongue frozen to cheek. Doug Republicano (Republic of Mexico, where everyone is entitled to their opinion even if no one listens) Chapter 13 - --- The fourth planet belonged to a businessman. This man was so much occupied that he did not even raise his head at the little prince's arrival. "Good morning," the little prince said to him. "Your cigarette has gone out." "Three and two make five. Five and seven make twelve. Twelve and three make fifteen. Good morning. FIfteen and seven make twenty-two. Twenty-two and six make twenty-eight. I haven't time to light it again. Twenty-six and five make thirty-one. Phew ! Then that makes five-hundred-and-one-million, six-hundred-twenty-two-thousand, seven-hundred-thirty-one." "Five hundred million what?" asked the little prince. "Eh? Are you still there? Five-hundred-and-one million-- I can't stop... I have so much to do! I am concerned with matters of consequence. I don't amuse myself with balderdash. Two and five make seven..." [picture] "Five-hundred-and-one million what?" repeated the little prince, who never in his life had let go of a question once he had asked it. The businessman raised his head. "During the fifty-four years that I have inhabited this planet, I have been disturbed only three times. The first time was twenty-two years ago, when some giddy goose fell from goodness knows where. He made the most frightful noise that resounded all ov er the place, and I made four mistakes in my addition. The second time, eleven years ago, I was disturbed by an attack of rheumatism. I don't get enough exercise. I have no time for loafing. The third time-- well, this is it! I was saying, then, five -hundred-and-one millions--" "Millions of what?" The businessman suddenly realized that there was no hope of being left in peace until he answered this question. "Millions of those little objects," he said, "which one sometimes sees in the sky." "Flies?" "Oh, no. Little glittering objects." "Bees?" "Oh, no. Little golden objects that set lazy men to idle dreaming. As for me, I am concerned with matters of consequence. There is no time for idle dreaming in my life." "Ah! You mean the stars?" "Yes, that's it. The stars." "And what do you do with five-hundred millions of stars?" "Five-hundred-and-one million, six-hundred-twenty-two thousand, seven-hundred-thirty-one. I am concerned with matters of consequence: I am accurate." "And what do you do with these stars?" "What do I do with them?" "Yes." "Nothing. I own them." "You own the stars?" "Yes." "But I have already seen a king who--" "Kings do not own, they reign over. It is a very different matter." "And what good does it do you to own the stars?" "It does me the good of making me rich." "And what good does it do you to be rich?" "It makes it possible for me to buy more stars, if any are ever discovered." "This man," the little prince said to himself, "reasons a little like my poor tippler..." Nevertheless, he still had some more questions. "How is it possible for one to own the stars?" "To whom do they belong?" the businessman retorted, peevishly. "I don't know. To nobody." "Then they belong to me, because I was the first person to think of it." "Is that all that is necessary?" "Certainly. When you find a diamond that belongs to nobody, it is yours. When you discover an island that belongs to nobody, it is yours. When you get an idea before any one else, you take out a patent on it: it is yours. So with me: I own the stars, because nobody else before me ever thought of owning them." "Yes, that is true," said the little prince. "And what do you do with them?" "I administer them," replied the businessman. "I count them and recount them. It is difficult. But I am a man who is naturally interested in matters of consequence." The little prince was still not satisfied. "If I owned a silk scarf," he said, "I could put it around my neck and take it away with me. If I owned a flower, I could pluck that flower and take it away with me. But you cannot pluck the stars from heaven..." "No. But I can put them in the bank." "Whatever does that mean?" "That means that I write the number of my stars on a little paper. And then I put this paper in a drawer and lock it with a key." "And that is all?" "That is enough," said the businessman. "It is entertaining," thought the little prince. "It is rather p
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 15:09:31 -0500, you wrote: >We've come to think in North America that the necessities of life fall off >of trees and the advancement of civilization is some foregone conclusion. >This is unfortunately not true. Money isn't a necessary evil; it is a >vehicle which makes trading more efficient than it was in the days of >barter. You're obviously a fan of some science fiction, with the Star Trek references. My favorite possible (if possible) future societies in SF are post-scarcity, post-singularity ones. So, it may be (is) just a fantasy, but it is exactly the type of world I strive towards and wish to live in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_scarcity http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=post+scarcity+society&btnG=Google+Search&aq=3&oq=post+scarcity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Darren/All, >From the perspective of the customer, Darren, I'd agree with a lot of what you've said below. Your example has more to do with market efficiencies and the removal of unnecessary costs from a channel, though, and I don't think this is what Darryl was driving towards. Meteorites are different from flat screen TVs. For all intents and purposes, "everyone" knows what a flat screen TV is and that they come at a fairly predictable price. Very, very few know much about meteorites (it's easy to forget that from the vantage point of this list), and even those predisposed (say, astronomy buffs) to be interested in acquiring them tend to not realize this is possible. As we continue expanding our reach into space; as extremely effective marketers such as Darryl get the word out to more and more across the globe; as science continues to unveil more fascinations locked up within meteorites; as the global population grows and the internet bandwidth continues making that growing world smaller; as all of these things happen, more and more human beings will be interested in acquiring meteorites and it will drive specimen values up (to where they "should" be, given an efficient marketplace distributing them, which we don't yet have) and -- the best part -- more and more people will be inspired by the "electric" feeling (as Norton put it well) one gets in holding a rock in your hand older than the one you're standing one. It seems inevitable, excepting other possible short-term reserves such as the Sahara holding back this progression as weathered finds hit the market for a while, that the pace of collector growth will far outstrip the supply of meteorites over the long haul. You also wrote: "Why? What is illogical about that thinking [THAT IT'S A GOOD THING TO SEE THE VALUE OF THINGS FALL AFTER ONE PURCHASES THEM]? When you see something that you like, do you think "gee, that's cool-- I'd like to have that-- but I wonder how much money I can get back for it at some point in the future if I decided to sell it?" The value of hobbies is the pursuit of the hobby, not the theoretical future depreciated value of the subject of the hobby. HELL YES I want price collapses on the things that interest me! See, I think of money as a necessary evil to be used to buy things that I want, not an object of worship in and of itself. I'm not a Republican." It goes without saying that you are not a Republican, but I'm not either. We've come to think in North America that the necessities of life fall off of trees and the advancement of civilization is some foregone conclusion. This is unfortunately not true. Money isn't a necessary evil; it is a vehicle which makes trading more efficient than it was in the days of barter. It also motivates people to take all sorts of risks in search of the meteorites you seem to enjoy yourself. The staggering facts associated with meteorites at least provide some wonderful perspective to those of us willing to contemplate it, and I think I'll go spend some time with a few now... Best regards, Dave www.fallingrocks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 2:26 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:57:16 -0500, you wrote: >This is a serious business... One last point on this-- of course a "business" will legitamately want to make as much money for product or service X as they can for it-- but it is entirely a different matter to expect customers of said business to want the business to charge more, which is what Darryl said and I was replying to-- quote: "Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this doesn't occur." Meaning-- we should try to keep the prices of these high, even if they could sell for less. With the implication that this is to attract "serious collectors", which seems to mean rich people collecting for future profits. Now, while (to illustrate with some other buyable product) it is well and good for Best Buy to want $1000 for a flat-screen TV if they can get it. But it isn't reasonable to expect the customer to want Best Buy to charge $1000 for that flat-screen when it COULD sell for $100. If what it costs to sell it at a profit is $1000, then fine. But if it could be sold for $100, why on Earth would the customer be expected to get behind selling it for $1000 just because $100 is "too cheap"? My position as a consumer is to attempt to pay the lowest reasonable cost for any item. I'd think that the main expense for hunters isn't the travel costs, but the cost of buying the meteorites from the land owner, who always expect it to be a "get rich quick" situation. If the land owners expect (and get) a price that requires hunters to resell it at around $50 a gram, then th
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Hi Again, Darren... Gotta jump in for a minute before taking off Two very different thoughts were thrown together and the result is a bit confusing. I was not suggesting to keep prices high. Oh my golly, no. I am only attempting to suggest that a longer view should be taken and that it would be nice if an effort were made to reduce the number of pricing anomalies. By the way, most wealthy collectors I know do not buy common specimens. The involvement of such collectors simply provides increased stability by driving overall demand which enhances the value of all of our collections---not a bad thing. It's going to be a long, long time before any of us have to worry about an inability to be able to snag cheap meteorites. All best and wishing everyone a nice Sunday! Darryl On Dec 7, 2008, at 2:26 PM, Darren Garrison wrote: On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:57:16 -0500, you wrote: This is a serious business... One last point on this-- of course a "business" will legitamately want to make as much money for product or service X as they can for it-- but it is entirely a different matter to expect customers of said business to want the business to charge more, which is what Darryl said and I was replying to-- quote: "Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this doesn't occur." Meaning-- we should try to keep the prices of these high, even if they could sell for less. With the implication that this is to attract "serious collectors", which seems to mean rich people collecting for future profits. Now, while (to illustrate with some other buyable product) it is well and good for Best Buy to want $1000 for a flat-screen TV if they can get it. But it isn't reasonable to expect the customer to want Best Buy to charge $1000 for that flat-screen when it COULD sell for $100. If what it costs to sell it at a profit is $1000, then fine. But if it could be sold for $100, why on Earth would the customer be expected to get behind selling it for $1000 just because $100 is "too cheap"? My position as a consumer is to attempt to pay the lowest reasonable cost for any item. I'd think that the main expense for hunters isn't the travel costs, but the cost of buying the meteorites from the land owner, who always expect it to be a "get rich quick" situation. If the land owners expect (and get) a price that requires hunters to resell it at around $50 a gram, then that's what the hunters will have to charge. But if the land owners didn't expect as much money, then the resellers wouldn't have to charge as much money. It is a feedback loop. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] : Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 14:17:43 -0500, you wrote: >having some (class, that is). You wrote: "Here's the thing about my >hobbies-- I don't expect to ever get back the money that I put into them...I >not only am used to falling prices on things (thus destruction of cash value >of investments)-- I want it." It would be hard to use logic to respond to >that thinking... Why? What is illogical about that thinking? When you see something that you like, do you think "gee, that's cool-- I'd like to have that-- but I wonder how much money I can get back for it at some point in the future if I decided to sell it?" The value of hobbies is the pursuit of the hobby, not the theoretical future depreciated value of the subject of the hobby. HELL YES I want price collapses on the things that interest me! See, I think of money as a necessary evil to be used to buy things that I want, not an object of worship in and of itself. I'm not a Republican. (wait, I didn't say that) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:57:16 -0500, you wrote: >This is a serious business... One last point on this-- of course a "business" will legitamately want to make as much money for product or service X as they can for it-- but it is entirely a different matter to expect customers of said business to want the business to charge more, which is what Darryl said and I was replying to-- quote: "Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this doesn't occur." Meaning-- we should try to keep the prices of these high, even if they could sell for less. With the implication that this is to attract "serious collectors", which seems to mean rich people collecting for future profits. Now, while (to illustrate with some other buyable product) it is well and good for Best Buy to want $1000 for a flat-screen TV if they can get it. But it isn't reasonable to expect the customer to want Best Buy to charge $1000 for that flat-screen when it COULD sell for $100. If what it costs to sell it at a profit is $1000, then fine. But if it could be sold for $100, why on Earth would the customer be expected to get behind selling it for $1000 just because $100 is "too cheap"? My position as a consumer is to attempt to pay the lowest reasonable cost for any item. I'd think that the main expense for hunters isn't the travel costs, but the cost of buying the meteorites from the land owner, who always expect it to be a "get rich quick" situation. If the land owners expect (and get) a price that requires hunters to resell it at around $50 a gram, then that's what the hunters will have to charge. But if the land owners didn't expect as much money, then the resellers wouldn't have to charge as much money. It is a feedback loop. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Martin, I can't find it at the moment, but someone sent me what seemed to be a quality analysis of eBay meteorite volume fairly recently which indicated that the annual market was about $2,000,000 USD. The figure was extrapolated from a fairly narrow window (either a week or a month). Best, Dave www.fallingrocks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin Altmann Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:01 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Meteorites and "Market"? I have always my difficulties. A collectors market? Hmm 71 million$ for a Warhol here, 40 milions for a van Gogh there, 2.5 million for a Macke here, 120 millions for a Klimt there... And the stuff we collect is rarer than these... (In principle it is bizarre to discuss, whether a Bassikonou or a Mali should cost 50 cents, 1$, 3$ or 1000$ or a Moon 1000$ or 10,000,000 isn't it?) Imagine, if only a single of these collectors buying such collectibles will discover meteorites as a field of collecting. Eeeek! Once such a sum spend like for such a painting - and bom - there is no meteorite market anymore, because there are no meteorites left :-) Any estimates, which annual volumes in total are moved in the meteorite market? Ebay-fanatics - has one of you ever noted how many $$$ are actually sold (sold not offered) in meteorites there per week? Would be interesting. Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Darryl Pitt Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Dezember 2008 18:28 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite-list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Darren, I hear you, but it's not about the rich snobs, it's about economic forces brought to the table which will result in a more stable marketplace and increasing valuations---and that's good for all of us. Wouldn't it be great if there were market factors which limited the kinds of aberrations which have stung us all at one time or another? I'm all for fun! ;-) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Darren, It is not a business for me; I am simply a collector. That said, whether you like it or not, it is a business in the aggregate. My point about class warfare -- apart from it being a weak platform entirely -- is that if one wants to engage in it one should perhaps at least consider having some (class, that is). You wrote: "Here's the thing about my hobbies-- I don't expect to ever get back the money that I put into them...I not only am used to falling prices on things (thus destruction of cash value of investments)-- I want it." It would be hard to use logic to respond to that thinking... Within the rapidly advancing world of technological R&D, it is obvious that this dynamic will exist; that said, I'm not sure why anyone would wish for it in places where it needn't be. If you only expect to lose money as you spend it, the aforementioned class envy will no doubt persist. Just because others may have used different -- one might say more prudent -- thinking in engaging in this arena, it doesn't mean...oh, never mind... Dave www.fallingrocks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:12 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:57:16 -0500, you wrote: >Darren & All, >Back to ridiculous class warfare...nice. This is a serious business Here's the thing-- for you, it is a business. For me, it isn't. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD SALE Estherville Meteorite on ebay for Sale 31.0 grams very nice membrane box included.. ends Today Sunday December 7. 2008 18:33:41 Pacific time
Hello list members, I hope everyone is having a Great weekend! I have a very nice Estherville with beautiful metal and a matrix of olivine that ends Today Sunday Dec-07-0820:50:45 PST Pacific time. I've knocked the starting price down several times. It comes with a great looking clear membrane display box and I'm paying for the shipping by USPS Priority mail anywhere in the US. Normal shipping rates apply outside the US. Shortcut to: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280290626570&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=018 I'm putting up more meteorites on ebay over the next few days. Thanks for looking. Brian Cox searchingforfun on ebay IMCA # 6387 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Hi Carl, Yes-yes, of course this is about rarity, but the valuation of meteorites frequently has so much to do with circumstances of the fall and recovery, and that's where it's not quite the same as other collectibles. There are dozens and dozens of really colorful examples which underscore this dynamic. The notion of rarity is not intrinsic to scientific importance. A-L-L-E-N-D-E. And to use your example, if Carancas occurred in Africa is it worth more or less? Canada or Montana? Detroit or Corsica? And if in Corsica, what about if it occurred in Bastia or instead fell on a nude beach in front of a crowd? In short, if you accept there are a host of variables determining valuations, the "added value" of a bolide video makes that meteorite worth more. And then it only seems to follow---everything else being the same--that a spectacular video would render a higher valuation for the material than a mediocre video. With this in mind, even if there are 100 kg of material of the Canadian event, it's my opinion that it's worth more than $10/g. Thanks for your thoughtful note and I hope meteorite collecting provides you with a great source of enjoyment. All best / Darryl On Dec 7, 2008, at 11:19 AM, Carl Esparza wrote: Darryl, With all due respect, As you know I am new at this and I tend to hear the same sort of things from friends about meteorite collecting. But as a life long art and antique dealer i see it a little different. Yes, meteorites have the curb appeal and all of the hype but the main thing that should be driving the value is rarity. Yes, a fireball is a rarity but not really ( maybe?) . Lets face it we have all seen incredible fireballs. I think , since recent studies have shown that most material that passes though our atmosphere does not show crust and therefore is missed so, we miss a lot of rare material. Now if we ever discover an unusual material that fell that would be something and rare. The way I see our scientists study habits is primarily pigeonholing the material. If it ain't covered with the black stuff they just toss it aside. Even though they know damn well about the recent studies which had real rocks attached to the cone of a rocket's re-entry and it's results. They also know much more about the types of rocks and their layering textures on other planets and yet still not one find with layering. Darryl, to me that is what is wrong with this hobby. No direction. There should be way more scientists willing to look at more than just the obvious and not assume it to be earthen because it has layers or no fusion crust. But back to the point . Rarity is what creates value and falls like Carancas truly are rare events. It not only crated a crater but it did it with a very friable material and it's cosmochemestry is being described as inexplicable. Having said that. I have yet to read one single scientific paper on the subject. These so called scientists in this field totally dropped the ball on this extraordinary information. And so the value plummets on material that truly is rare and desireable as such. Thanks again Carl Carl Esparza meteoritemax IMCA 5829 --- On Sun, 12/7/08, Darryl Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Darryl Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale To: "Jason Utas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Meteorite-list" Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 8:38 AM Folks, If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: meteorites as a collectible do not attract more serious collectors because there are too many aberrations of valuation--such that the aberrations have become the norm. Several serious collectors who have been intrigued with meteorites have shared with me that they've opted not to climb in because of their belief in an "immature" and "unsophisticated" marketplace. Their words. In my humble opinion, the quality of the fireball video associated with the Canadian event makes it worth far more than the low-end numbers being bandied about. Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this doesn't occur. All best / d = On Dec 7, 2008, at 3:34 AM, Jason Utas wrote: > Hello Jeff, All, > > The comparison to Carancas was provided as a contrast simply because > it is such an unusual and different meteorite, and yet the asking > price for these new Canadian stones is roughly what Carancas is going > for right now. It's a large, ordinary, equilibrated chondrite fall, > the likes of which we see almost once a year with some regularity > (e.g. Thuathe, Amgala, Park Forest, Kilabo, Bensour, Chergach, > Bassikounou, Berduc, etc.). > > And the asking price is more than Park Forest, which was a spectacular > urban fall, and of which less material was found. The asking price > for Park
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:57:16 -0500, you wrote: >Darren & All, >Back to ridiculous class warfare...nice. This is a serious business Here's the thing-- for you, it is a business. For me, it isn't. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Bonhams Auction?
Anyone here bidding on anything live? I am curious to know where the meteorites are at, if they have sold. mike __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 12:27:44 -0500, you wrote: >I hear you, but it's not about the rich snobs, it's about economic >forces brought to the table which will result in a more stable >marketplace and increasing valuations---and that's good for all of >us. Wouldn't it be great if there were market factors which limited >the kinds of aberrations which have stung us all at one time or another? If there is something that I want, I buy it to keep, not for some future resale value. So if I pay, say, $50 a gram for something now, and a year from now, it is selling for $5 a gram, that just means that I can now buy 10 times as much. And if it falls to 50 cents a gram, I can buy 10 times as much again. Here's the thing about my hobbies-- I don't expect to ever get back the money that I put into them. As a computer hobbiest, I spent $40 per megabyte for the first memory expansions I added to my PC ($160 for 4 MB). Last week, I spent one penny per megabyte ($20 for 4096 MB). I not only am used to falling prices on things (thus destruction of cash value of investments)-- I want it. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Meteorites and "Market"? I have always my difficulties. A collectors market? Hmm 71 million$ for a Warhol here, 40 milions for a van Gogh there, 2.5 million for a Macke here, 120 millions for a Klimt there... And the stuff we collect is rarer than these... (In principle it is bizarre to discuss, whether a Bassikonou or a Mali should cost 50 cents, 1$, 3$ or 1000$ or a Moon 1000$ or 10,000,000 isn't it?) Imagine, if only a single of these collectors buying such collectibles will discover meteorites as a field of collecting. Eeeek! Once such a sum spend like for such a painting - and bom - there is no meteorite market anymore, because there are no meteorites left :-) Any estimates, which annual volumes in total are moved in the meteorite market? Ebay-fanatics - has one of you ever noted how many $$$ are actually sold (sold not offered) in meteorites there per week? Would be interesting. Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Darryl Pitt Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Dezember 2008 18:28 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite-list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Darren, I hear you, but it's not about the rich snobs, it's about economic forces brought to the table which will result in a more stable marketplace and increasing valuations---and that's good for all of us. Wouldn't it be great if there were market factors which limited the kinds of aberrations which have stung us all at one time or another? I'm all for fun! ;-) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Darren & All, Back to ridiculous class warfare...nice. This is a serious business, and classless quips won't serve the debate well here. We have recovered more and more material over time because the incentive (i.e. money, which, by definition, rich people happen to have) to do so has increased in advance of the recoveries themselves. There is plenty of material for those who want to have fun in an "immature, unsuphisticated" (sic) arena, and that's great. The desire (i.e. how much money one is willing to pay) for a lot of this material (not all, of course), however, does not generate the kind of incentive to motivate top-flight meteorite hunters to get on planes, risk their own capital and time and energy (and necks, in some cases) to find epic meteorites. Dave www.fallingrocks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darryl Pitt Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 12:28 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite-list Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Darren, I hear you, but it's not about the rich snobs, it's about economic forces brought to the table which will result in a more stable marketplace and increasing valuations---and that's good for all of us. Wouldn't it be great if there were market factors which limited the kinds of aberrations which have stung us all at one time or another? I'm all for fun! ;-) On Dec 7, 2008, at 11:05 AM, Darren Garrison wrote: > On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 10:38:59 -0500, you wrote: > >> with meteorites have shared with me that they've opted not to climb >> in because of their belief in an "immature" and "unsophisticated" >> marketplace. Their words. > > > >> Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell >> for a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make >> certain this doesn't occur. > > Myself, I'd rather see meteorite collecting as a fun (immature, > unsuphisticated) > hobby that anyone interested can afford to join (even if just for > small pieces) than as a way for rich snobs to become richer. I say > that those "serious collectors" who you talked to can go screw > themselves. > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
B-I-N-G-O. Dave www.fallingrocks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darryl Pitt Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 12:27 PM To: Jason Utas Cc: Meteorite-list Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Jason, Small detailI never mentioned Park Forest. And speaking of being "at a loss for words," I don't quite know how to respond to your unbridled attack on "my" point of view regarding the same(?!) As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely believe that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell material, that it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing in the marketplace. I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered Chergach at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely offer it for $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. Whether we can quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect on the rest of the marketplace. They create their own "gravity." That's all I'm trying to say. All best / Darryl On Dec 7, 2008, at 11:02 AM, Jason Utas wrote: > Darryl, > Low-end numbers? Even Park Forest which was witnessed, caught on > numerous videos, and fell in a densely populated urban environment - > in what may well be a majority of cases, hitting man-made objects, was > selling for $30/g or so at the time of the fall - a price which has > stayed roughly the same, if it hasn't come down a few dollars per gram > since then. > How much Park Forest was recovered? According to this report, roughly > 30kg. > > http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Aug04/ParkForest.html > > More of this fall has been recovered in the past week than from the > entire fall of Park Forest. > It hasn't hit anything interesting, as far as we know. > It's an ordinary chondrite - even Park Forest had some pretty > brecciation/melt. I've heard of nothing of the sort from this fall. > It was caught on video, granted, and that does make it special in one > way...why you think that should boost the value of it to twice the > value of the undoubtedly more interesting Park Forest, also caught on > video (and five or ten times the price of other comparable falls), I > honestly...I'm at a lack for words. > > "Low-end numbers being bandied about?" > > On the one hand, you seem to criticize the high price being asked by > these sellers, and on the other, you say the current market rates for > other falls are "low-end numbers?" > > I don't understand. $5-10/g for these new falls is far overpriced, as > best I can tell. At least with Chergach and Bassikounou, suppliers > were contacting list-members directly and offering stones at $2/g > initially - less for larger stones. > > You seem to be saying that's too cheap. Why? If the sellers are > content, and I don't think the buyers are complaining, well, I can't > see any reason for you to say such a thing. If both parties are > happy, I honestly don't see how you can say such a thing. > > Look at the numbers from my last email. A mere $10/g would provide > the hunters each with $5,000, assuming they only came back with 250g > each. > > It's classic marketing technique to tell potential buyers that they > got precious little out of the fall, as they said they did. > If people think there's less, they'll want to buy more. There's a > reason they're not telling anyone how much they got, after all. I > wonder why...and I wonder if they ever will tell us how much they > found/were allowed to keep After all, unless they're just using > that as a marketing ploy, they really have no reason not to tell us. > > Jason > > On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Darryl Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >> Folks, >> >> If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: meteorites as a >> collectible do not attract more serious collectors because there are >> too many aberrations of valuation--such that the aberrations have >> become the norm. Several serious collectors who have been intrigued >> with meteorites have shared with me that they've opted not to climb >> in because of their belief in an "immature" and "unsophisticated" >> marketplace. Their words. >> >> In my humble opinion, the quality of the fireball video associated >> with the Canadian event makes it worth far more than the low-end >> numbers being bandied about. >> >> Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell >> for a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make >> certain this doesn't occur. >> >> All best / d >> >> >> = >> __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list M
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Jason, Darryl & All, Darryl is right. This "industry" is famous for pricing/value issues. Many dealers (not all, of course...just many) have brought new material to the market, sold it for a premium to make their profit, then dumped the remaining material once the market has been satisfied as if this were the retail clothing business (will provide an explanation here if it's needed) on countless occasions. It's hard to imaging that this might inspire confidence in a serious collector. The "low-end numbers" part of Darryl's email is secondary to this, and it's not clear which numbers he's referring to within the framework of this discussion, anyway. Government intervention -- such as is present in Canada -- has a way of adding to the chaos around specimen value (and generating some tragedies along the way, a la Tagish Lake), too. It's great that Sonny and McCartney were hunting this fall early, and hopefully as this continues to happen the message about the importance of recovering material and the need for a strong incentive to make that possible gets out. International laws regarding meteorite recovery and export have virtually all been established as a bolt-on package to other legislation around artifacts, etc, and for the most part these decisions have been made by officials who have probably never even seen a meteorite (let alone developed an understanding of the field and related relevant issues). Back to values and suppliers contacting collectors directly in the North African falls: this is illustrative of the near absence of a conventional distribution channel, and there is risk that comes with acquiring material in that manner. The internet has made it possible for just about anyone to be a dealer and these challenges will likely continue to fester until an international organization truly establishes some standards in this arena around verifiable provenance, prioritizing meteorite recovery over politics, proper curation, collection transfer protocol and the like. Dave www.fallingrocks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Utas Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 11:02 AM To: Meteorite-list Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale Darryl, Low-end numbers? Even Park Forest which was witnessed, caught on numerous videos, and fell in a densely populated urban environment - in what may well be a majority of cases, hitting man-made objects, was selling for $30/g or so at the time of the fall - a price which has stayed roughly the same, if it hasn't come down a few dollars per gram since then. How much Park Forest was recovered? According to this report, roughly 30kg. http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Aug04/ParkForest.html More of this fall has been recovered in the past week than from the entire fall of Park Forest. It hasn't hit anything interesting, as far as we know. It's an ordinary chondrite - even Park Forest had some pretty brecciation/melt. I've heard of nothing of the sort from this fall. It was caught on video, granted, and that does make it special in one way...why you think that should boost the value of it to twice the value of the undoubtedly more interesting Park Forest, also caught on video (and five or ten times the price of other comparable falls), I honestly...I'm at a lack for words. "Low-end numbers being bandied about?" On the one hand, you seem to criticize the high price being asked by these sellers, and on the other, you say the current market rates for other falls are "low-end numbers?" I don't understand. $5-10/g for these new falls is far overpriced, as best I can tell. At least with Chergach and Bassikounou, suppliers were contacting list-members directly and offering stones at $2/g initially - less for larger stones. You seem to be saying that's too cheap. Why? If the sellers are content, and I don't think the buyers are complaining, well, I can't see any reason for you to say such a thing. If both parties are happy, I honestly don't see how you can say such a thing. Look at the numbers from my last email. A mere $10/g would provide the hunters each with $5,000, assuming they only came back with 250g each. It's classic marketing technique to tell potential buyers that they got precious little out of the fall, as they said they did. If people think there's less, they'll want to buy more. There's a reason they're not telling anyone how much they got, after all. I wonder why...and I wonder if they ever will tell us how much they found/were allowed to keep After all, unless they're just using that as a marketing ploy, they really have no reason not to tell us. Jason On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Darryl Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Folks, > > If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: meteorites as a > collectible do not attract more serious collectors because there are > too many aberrations of valuation--such that the aberrations have > become
Re: [meteorite-list] Moss meteorite and Norway's "attempt" to claimtheft.
Hmja, possibly a deficiency of their university schooling. Half a lesson in the series of lectures or the workshop in meteoritics about the history of this subject, And then they would have known, that it always was so the last 300 years, that there were the farmers and the Farmers picking up the stones to sell or to donate them to the scientists and the collectors. In my opinion also in natural science a short glimpse onto the cultural context is important. Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Michael Farmer Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Dezember 2008 18:27 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Martin Altmann Betreff: [meteorite-list] Moss meteorite and Norway's "attempt" to claimtheft. This whole discussion brings back memories of out Moss CO3 hunt and subsequent recovery of the Morten Bilet/Michael Farmer stone, ~900 grams out of 3.6 kilos total recovered. Many of us meteorite hunters from both USA and European countries, Poland, Sweden, Norway, Germany, UK, Canada etc were all hunting there and in the news. I got a call from the people at the Norway National university in Oslo who curate meteorites. They came on the bus to lecture me about destroying science by collecting meteorites for private purposes. They then said that Norwegian law allowed for any finder to own a metorite, but they did not like that at all. They then promptly ended the meeting saying that they had to catch a bus back to Oslo, despite the fact that the hotel was exactly in the center of the strewnfield. They had no desire to actually search! Days later, Morten and I found nearly a third of this rare meteorite in a parking lot, many of the pieces already destroyed by cars running over them and heavy equipment smashing them to dust. I have photos of the gray dust marks that days before had been large fragments of the Moss meteorite. Without us, Moss would consist of barely 1.5 kilogram in the three pieces (toilet hitter, tree cutter, and roof smasher). A later newspaper articles was titled "STOP, Meteorite THIEVES" funny, it is hard to steal what is legal to find and own. Then we can take Puerto Lapice, our team recovered over 30 stones, nearly 1/3 of the total known weight of that rare Eucrite, and Spain went crazy, calling us thieves although Spain has no law preventing meteorites from leaving Spain. We went 4 MONTHS later, after 99% of the strewnfield had been completely plowed over and destroyed. Had we not done that, those stones would have been lost as well. Science and private hunters work well together when we try, and trying to block on the other only leads to fewer recoveries and loss of science and material for all. I think this Canadian fall will go well, I havent read much that shows otherwise. Michael Farmer __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Darren, I hear you, but it's not about the rich snobs, it's about economic forces brought to the table which will result in a more stable marketplace and increasing valuations---and that's good for all of us. Wouldn't it be great if there were market factors which limited the kinds of aberrations which have stung us all at one time or another? I'm all for fun! ;-) On Dec 7, 2008, at 11:05 AM, Darren Garrison wrote: On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 10:38:59 -0500, you wrote: with meteorites have shared with me that they've opted not to climb in because of their belief in an "immature" and "unsophisticated" marketplace. Their words. Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this doesn't occur. Myself, I'd rather see meteorite collecting as a fun (immature, unsuphisticated) hobby that anyone interested can afford to join (even if just for small pieces) than as a way for rich snobs to become richer. I say that those "serious collectors" who you talked to can go screw themselves. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Moss meteorite and Norway's "attempt" to claim theft.
This whole discussion brings back memories of out Moss CO3 hunt and subsequent recovery of the Morten Bilet/Michael Farmer stone, ~900 grams out of 3.6 kilos total recovered. Many of us meteorite hunters from both USA and European countries, Poland, Sweden, Norway, Germany, UK, Canada etc were all hunting there and in the news. I got a call from the people at the Norway National university in Oslo who curate meteorites. They came on the bus to lecture me about destroying science by collecting meteorites for private purposes. They then said that Norwegian law allowed for any finder to own a metorite, but they did not like that at all. They then promptly ended the meeting saying that they had to catch a bus back to Oslo, despite the fact that the hotel was exactly in the center of the strewnfield. They had no desire to actually search! Days later, Morten and I found nearly a third of this rare meteorite in a parking lot, many of the pieces already destroyed by cars running over them and heavy equipment smashing them to dust. I have photos of the gray dust marks that days before had been large fragments of the Moss meteorite. Without us, Moss would consist of barely 1.5 kilogram in the three pieces (toilet hitter, tree cutter, and roof smasher). A later newspaper articles was titled "STOP, Meteorite THIEVES" funny, it is hard to steal what is legal to find and own. Then we can take Puerto Lapice, our team recovered over 30 stones, nearly 1/3 of the total known weight of that rare Eucrite, and Spain went crazy, calling us thieves although Spain has no law preventing meteorites from leaving Spain. We went 4 MONTHS later, after 99% of the strewnfield had been completely plowed over and destroyed. Had we not done that, those stones would have been lost as well. Science and private hunters work well together when we try, and trying to block on the other only leads to fewer recoveries and loss of science and material for all. I think this Canadian fall will go well, I havent read much that shows otherwise. Michael Farmer __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Jason, Small detailI never mentioned Park Forest. And speaking of being "at a loss for words," I don't quite know how to respond to your unbridled attack on "my" point of view regarding the same(?!) As it regards the Chergach and Bassikounou examples, I sincerely believe that irrespective of how inexpensive initial suppliers sell material, that it is incumbent on us to consider the implications of our pricing in the marketplace. I take a longer view of such anomalies. Just because I was offered Chergach at $0.50/g doesn't mean that it's responsible for me to widely offer it for $1.50/g even though it represents a 200% profit to me. Whether we can quantify the effect or not, beyond cheap meteorites have an effect on the rest of the marketplace. They create their own "gravity." That's all I'm trying to say. All best / Darryl On Dec 7, 2008, at 11:02 AM, Jason Utas wrote: Darryl, Low-end numbers? Even Park Forest which was witnessed, caught on numerous videos, and fell in a densely populated urban environment - in what may well be a majority of cases, hitting man-made objects, was selling for $30/g or so at the time of the fall - a price which has stayed roughly the same, if it hasn't come down a few dollars per gram since then. How much Park Forest was recovered? According to this report, roughly 30kg. http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Aug04/ParkForest.html More of this fall has been recovered in the past week than from the entire fall of Park Forest. It hasn't hit anything interesting, as far as we know. It's an ordinary chondrite - even Park Forest had some pretty brecciation/melt. I've heard of nothing of the sort from this fall. It was caught on video, granted, and that does make it special in one way...why you think that should boost the value of it to twice the value of the undoubtedly more interesting Park Forest, also caught on video (and five or ten times the price of other comparable falls), I honestly...I'm at a lack for words. "Low-end numbers being bandied about?" On the one hand, you seem to criticize the high price being asked by these sellers, and on the other, you say the current market rates for other falls are "low-end numbers?" I don't understand. $5-10/g for these new falls is far overpriced, as best I can tell. At least with Chergach and Bassikounou, suppliers were contacting list-members directly and offering stones at $2/g initially - less for larger stones. You seem to be saying that's too cheap. Why? If the sellers are content, and I don't think the buyers are complaining, well, I can't see any reason for you to say such a thing. If both parties are happy, I honestly don't see how you can say such a thing. Look at the numbers from my last email. A mere $10/g would provide the hunters each with $5,000, assuming they only came back with 250g each. It's classic marketing technique to tell potential buyers that they got precious little out of the fall, as they said they did. If people think there's less, they'll want to buy more. There's a reason they're not telling anyone how much they got, after all. I wonder why...and I wonder if they ever will tell us how much they found/were allowed to keep After all, unless they're just using that as a marketing ploy, they really have no reason not to tell us. Jason On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Darryl Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Folks, If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: meteorites as a collectible do not attract more serious collectors because there are too many aberrations of valuation--such that the aberrations have become the norm. Several serious collectors who have been intrigued with meteorites have shared with me that they've opted not to climb in because of their belief in an "immature" and "unsophisticated" marketplace. Their words. In my humble opinion, the quality of the fireball video associated with the Canadian event makes it worth far more than the low-end numbers being bandied about. Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this doesn't occur. All best / d = __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Hi Al & all, well that is a minor problem. Letting aside, that any new fall is lacking any cultural properties, as long as it doesn't slay a famous composer, painter or author (poetry slam) and if we accept, that Canadians see themselves as legitimate heirs of extraterrestrial ancestors, when were meteorites put into the national cultural heritage list of Canada? I'm not sure, read somewhere in 1977. So only a few meteorites are afflicted. With all others it would be quite difficult for the Canadians to present evidence in case, that they were exported illegally. And Canada is still a State of Law (Argentina pro forma too), so not the accused has to prove his innocence, but the accuser has to evidence that he is guilty. But in general. Nobody is happy with that legal situation, that meteoritical Ren & Stimpy Show, I guess, least of all the Canadians themselves. And I really hope, that the new fall now will take the fears, the aggressiveness in the debate and will lead to a more meaning- and fruitful handling of meteorites in future there. It might be the problem, that "the officials" can't see the difference between meteorites and fossils, minerals, resources and artefacts, which they want to protect. A diamond, a dino is lying millions of years in the rocks, an artefact and something like the crater with the irons rests for thousands of years there. So there is no hurry, they can stay in the ground also for some generations more and it's o.k. to plant the banner there and to say "preserved for eternity, hands off". Not so - a fresh meteorite fall. There it is the top priority to rescue the stones from the harsh environment in the most prisitine condition. A single rain fall, a frost can already gravely damage the material, each week of searching without success let the isotope clock tick. Flight dynamics, fragmentation, strewnfield... interesting points, but in dubio pro meteoritem with a new fall. That was also the methodical mistake with Tagish Lake, where the Canadian Geological Survey - one can't say it else - destroyed valuable cultural heritage of Canada. But errors are made for learning from them. Now the scientists are faster. To recover new falls you need knowledge and you need manpower, the more people are searching the better! Restrictive property laws and protectionism do constrict the possibility of recovering new falls. Especially in countries, where "the officials" don't have enough experience with meteorites. See Africa, see Peru... I can't understand why the authorities still ignore the very positive experiences made with the cooperation of "official" and "private" initiatives in the recovering and documentation of almost all European falls of our decade? My home fall, Neuschwanstein. The DLR gave to everyone, who wanted to hunt, the exact data of the possible strewnfield, which they had precalculated. Only because of this, the 3 stones could have been recovered. They never would have been found and would be meanwhile destroyed under the harsh alpine conditions, if the officials wouldn't have used the help of private hunters and searchers. Think back to Villalbeto. Only a fraction of the masses would be housed nowadays in the Spanish museums and universities, if they would have tried to hunt them by theit own. No LaPice at all would exist, if not a private person did all the field work in calculating a possible strewnfield, interviewing eyewitnesses, evaluating observations, in cooperation with the "officials" and in hunting so long, until the first stone was found. Moss... would we have more than the stone which hit the tree. And so on. Or please note the wonderful documentation and catalogue Buhl/Baermann made about the Chergach fall in the so necessary timely manner. We are all collectors and we know how disappointing and laborious it is even with the falls of our times to research in the archives to find only here a lousy photo, there a small newspaper article. An university in Mali would not have been able to do a similar professional work. Look into Buhl's Santa Victoria documentation. Now he tried to make the same with the Indian fall, but was gravely impeded by the officials there to do so, an effect of that hysterical debate of the recent years. Another aspect is, what we don't have to forget, that to forbid by law the owner of a stone to do with the stone what he likes to do, is legally seen a very severe intrusion in his personal laws, and certainly for a State of Law always the worst solution. Side effect of the Canadian situation - maybe they wouldn't have priced it now at 50$/g, if Canadian meteorites wouldn't be so expensive in general. Why are they so expensive? Is their a higher demand on the domestic Canadian market? Does the material own a higher intrinsic value because it felt in Canada instead in USA? No. Canadian meteorites are so expensive, because their availability is restricted. If the regulations would be as liberal as in USA, Canadian meteor
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
In a message dated 12/7/2008 10:30:14 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Maybe the two guys are just "publicly" asking $50 a gram, so that the Canadian Government will have to pony up the $50/g to buy what they want from them All, You know, on further thought, IF the Canadian Government would be happy to pay Sonny and McCartney ($50 x 1,000g = ) $50,000 for their finds, who are we to say that they shouldn't? I am sure the Canadian Government can afford to pay $50,000. Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom0010) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Is this in Canadian dollars or US dollars? Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom0010) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
All, Maybe the two guys are just "publicly" asking $50 a gram, so that the Canadian Government will have to pony up the $50/g to buy what they want from them (and or to buy from the other land owners) but in reality they are NOT expecting to sell any to the rocks for ANY price at this time? Maybe after they get their export permits, then they will reconsider what the market will allow at that time? Or maybe with some negotiation, they might be able to be talked down to $5/g? Not always is the asking price the actual end sales price. It is their business, so they can run it any way they like. But we should understand that undoubtedly there is more here than meets the eye. Steve Arnold #1 www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com **Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in one place. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom0010) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Offer for new Canadian fall
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 08:17:55 -0800 (PST), you wrote: > >I offer five thousand QUATLOOS per gram for Buzzard Coulee. Okay, without googling-- Spock's Brain? __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Offer for new Canadian fall
I offer five thousand QUATLOOS per gram for Buzzard Coulee. And yes, I have an export permit from Triskelion for the quatloos. . Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 10:38:59 -0500, you wrote: >with meteorites have shared with me that they've opted not to climb in >because of their belief in an "immature" and "unsophisticated" >marketplace. Their words. >Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for >a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain >this doesn't occur. Myself, I'd rather see meteorite collecting as a fun (immature, unsuphisticated) hobby that anyone interested can afford to join (even if just for small pieces) than as a way for rich snobs to become richer. I say that those "serious collectors" who you talked to can go screw themselves. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Darryl, Low-end numbers? Even Park Forest which was witnessed, caught on numerous videos, and fell in a densely populated urban environment - in what may well be a majority of cases, hitting man-made objects, was selling for $30/g or so at the time of the fall - a price which has stayed roughly the same, if it hasn't come down a few dollars per gram since then. How much Park Forest was recovered? According to this report, roughly 30kg. http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Aug04/ParkForest.html More of this fall has been recovered in the past week than from the entire fall of Park Forest. It hasn't hit anything interesting, as far as we know. It's an ordinary chondrite - even Park Forest had some pretty brecciation/melt. I've heard of nothing of the sort from this fall. It was caught on video, granted, and that does make it special in one way...why you think that should boost the value of it to twice the value of the undoubtedly more interesting Park Forest, also caught on video (and five or ten times the price of other comparable falls), I honestly...I'm at a lack for words. "Low-end numbers being bandied about?" On the one hand, you seem to criticize the high price being asked by these sellers, and on the other, you say the current market rates for other falls are "low-end numbers?" I don't understand. $5-10/g for these new falls is far overpriced, as best I can tell. At least with Chergach and Bassikounou, suppliers were contacting list-members directly and offering stones at $2/g initially - less for larger stones. You seem to be saying that's too cheap. Why? If the sellers are content, and I don't think the buyers are complaining, well, I can't see any reason for you to say such a thing. If both parties are happy, I honestly don't see how you can say such a thing. Look at the numbers from my last email. A mere $10/g would provide the hunters each with $5,000, assuming they only came back with 250g each. It's classic marketing technique to tell potential buyers that they got precious little out of the fall, as they said they did. If people think there's less, they'll want to buy more. There's a reason they're not telling anyone how much they got, after all. I wonder why...and I wonder if they ever will tell us how much they found/were allowed to keep After all, unless they're just using that as a marketing ploy, they really have no reason not to tell us. Jason On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Darryl Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Folks, > > If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: meteorites as a > collectible do not attract more serious collectors because there are too > many aberrations of valuation--such that the aberrations have become the > norm. Several serious collectors who have been intrigued with meteorites > have shared with me that they've opted not to climb in because of their > belief in an "immature" and "unsophisticated" marketplace. Their words. > > In my humble opinion, the quality of the fireball video associated with the > Canadian event makes it worth far more than the low-end numbers being > bandied about. > > Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for a > couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this > doesn't occur. > > All best / d > > > = > > > On Dec 7, 2008, at 3:34 AM, Jason Utas wrote: > >> Hello Jeff, All, >> >> The comparison to Carancas was provided as a contrast simply because >> it is such an unusual and different meteorite, and yet the asking >> price for these new Canadian stones is roughly what Carancas is going >> for right now. It's a large, ordinary, equilibrated chondrite fall, >> the likes of which we see almost once a year with some regularity >> (e.g. Thuathe, Amgala, Park Forest, Kilabo, Bensour, Chergach, >> Bassikounou, Berduc, etc.). >> >> And the asking price is more than Park Forest, which was a spectacular >> urban fall, and of which less material was found. The asking price >> for Park Forest currently runs between $20-30/g, from what I can find. >> A dealer or two have it listed at $40/g, but...not average. The >> price at the time was...$20-30/g. It started high, and, because of >> great demand for the urban fall, it stayed high. >> >> All of the other falls are ~$1.20/g (see the beautifully fresh 1.7kg >> Chergach that just passed on ebay, from ET, as well as a brace of >> stones I personally bought in the 120g range from an American dealer) >> to the asking price of $5-10/g for pieces of the other falls (see ebay >> - meteoritica, Hupe - both have Chergach currently listed on ebay, and >> there's quite a bit of Bensour around if you want to compare that), >> not that they sell quickly at those prices. After all, if you look at >> what's listed, well, those are the pieces that have yet to sell. >> >> The only comparable meteorite I can find is the Argentinean fall of >> Berduc, which, though I can't name any names (it was a while ago), w
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Folks, If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: meteorites as a collectible do not attract more serious collectors because there are too many aberrations of valuation--such that the aberrations have become the norm. Several serious collectors who have been intrigued with meteorites have shared with me that they've opted not to climb in because of their belief in an "immature" and "unsophisticated" marketplace. Their words. In my humble opinion, the quality of the fireball video associated with the Canadian event makes it worth far more than the low-end numbers being bandied about. Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this doesn't occur. All best / d = On Dec 7, 2008, at 3:34 AM, Jason Utas wrote: Hello Jeff, All, The comparison to Carancas was provided as a contrast simply because it is such an unusual and different meteorite, and yet the asking price for these new Canadian stones is roughly what Carancas is going for right now. It's a large, ordinary, equilibrated chondrite fall, the likes of which we see almost once a year with some regularity (e.g. Thuathe, Amgala, Park Forest, Kilabo, Bensour, Chergach, Bassikounou, Berduc, etc.). And the asking price is more than Park Forest, which was a spectacular urban fall, and of which less material was found. The asking price for Park Forest currently runs between $20-30/g, from what I can find. A dealer or two have it listed at $40/g, but...not average. The price at the time was...$20-30/g. It started high, and, because of great demand for the urban fall, it stayed high. All of the other falls are ~$1.20/g (see the beautifully fresh 1.7kg Chergach that just passed on ebay, from ET, as well as a brace of stones I personally bought in the 120g range from an American dealer) to the asking price of $5-10/g for pieces of the other falls (see ebay - meteoritica, Hupe - both have Chergach currently listed on ebay, and there's quite a bit of Bensour around if you want to compare that), not that they sell quickly at those prices. After all, if you look at what's listed, well, those are the pieces that have yet to sell. The only comparable meteorite I can find is the Argentinean fall of Berduc, which, though I can't name any names (it was a while ago), was listed between $10 and $30/g. Restricted export, few suppliers, fresh fall, etc. The initial determining of the asking price of a fall is essentially arbitrary The hunters could set it at $5/g or $10/g if they only wanted to cover personal costs (and make a little on the side). Or they could try to set it at $1000/g to make a profit. The only thing keeping them from charging that much is the knowledge that, at some point, they wouldn't turn a profit because their asking price would be too high for anyone to buy. A dealer looking to turn as high a profit as possible would ask as high a price as he could, while still selling all of his material. Why wouldn't they? Do you really feel indignant enough at the dealers' asking five or ten times the price for comparable falls to not buy a stone from them? Personally, I do, and I won't. I think they're taking advantage of us folks who love them, but who have jobs and obligations - people who love them enough that we would go on such trips that we could, but who can't because of our responsibilities. But let's have some fun. Lets assume these fellows come back with a mere 500g. Just over a pound of space, between the two of them. And let's assume a high trip/cost estimate: Given that next-day flights to Edmonton from where I live were ~$130, and let's say they both stay there for a week at $80/night + food, a carit works out to about a thousand dollars for the trip, each. $2,000 combined cost. If that's right, they would break even at $4/g. Each $1/g over $4/g would give them $500. If they're asking $50/g, they would make...$46x500. That's a profit of $23,000. And if my estimate was off and they each flew first-class, rented Hummers, and spent $50/day on food, they'll only make $20,000 off of 500g. ...Do you think they got more than a pound of material from the trip? I would assume so. A kilogram between the two of them would give them almost $50,000. Not bad for a quick flight up to Edmonton and a week's fun. I'll wait for the thaw. Anyone else who has spring break free (dates available), drop me a line and I'll see what kind of a trip we can arrange. What I can promise is that if I do find enough on that trip to warrant selling some, I'll have it at a reasonable price. Regards, Jason On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 11:18 PM, Jeff Kuyken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Steve and Mike both touched on an interesting point here that I was pondering myself the last couple of days. The material found now will be different to the material found weeks, months and years down the track. I d
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Greetings List, Interesting topics. Mike is right on about the Canadians. They don't play games. The former curator of the Canadian Collection was scanning ebay meteorite auctions for many years for Canadian Cultural Property including meteorites. The only way I was able to figure this out was a friend offer me some diamonds he had purchased to sell on ebay for him. They were Canadian. I received an inquiry as to where I had obtained my diamonds from Canada from the Canadian Mounted Police!! I let David know they were wondering (I had no doubt what so ever that David had purchased these legally). After David told the police they were purchased from one of the largest diamond companies and families in Canada, they backed way off but left a negative opinion in my mind that you can't purchase Canadian items without having to justify resaling them later. We later then found out about the meteorite snoop. It also fit in that he use to visit Tucson and Denver. I thought to build up their collection, but also to check for Canadian material. All my best to all. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: ; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale I highly doubt it will be in Tucson, if it is then it is illegal, and I would not touch it. India doesnt scare me much, but Canada sent people to Tokyo two years back to look for fossils. They don't play games. Michael Farmer __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - December 7, 2008
http://www.rocksfromspace.org/December_7_2008.html __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Speaking of illegal Meteorites...
Argentina is getting harder in meteorites too. Look at this news from 2 days ago (sorry, spanish only): http://www.unoentrerios.com.ar/noticias/nota.php?id=1841 Two Uruguayans were caugth trying to smuggler meteorites from Argentina to Uruguay. They look like Campos. I heard there is an investigation right now the selling of illegal meteorites on-line (Campo del Cielo, Berduc and Santa Lucia), including web pages and auctions. Justice here is slow, very slow, it may take years, but their files don't dissapear. Don't be surprised if we have investigators next Tucson looking for the ones being sold there. By the way, here is an article (also in spanish), made by a lawyer, about the law. page 1 http://www.astroentrerios.com.ar/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=160&Itemid=70 page 2 http://www.astroentrerios.com.ar/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=160&Itemid=70&limit=1&limitstart=1 page 3 http://www.astroentrerios.com.ar/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=160&Itemid=70&limit=1&limitstart=2 Eduardo -Original Message- From: Greg Catterton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 16:10:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Speaking of illegal Meteorites... > I am thinking that there will be a increase in Campo prices due to the > new laws. > > Another illegal meteorite, Berduc... It is widely available for sale on > places like Ebay and a few dealers also offer it online. > Not too long ago someone from the Metlist offered it in a rather > discrete fashion - if anyone tried to save the video clip like I did, > you know what Im talking about - it was also offered at the Bonhams > auction. > > I honestly think that the legal status doesnt matter to most private > collectors, it only really effects the dealers who would aquire it to > sell it. > Myself, as mainly a collector feel that nobody would come kicking in my > door for owning a sample of this new canadian fall, Berduc or any other > meteorite that is not aloowed to be exported... there are too many > bigger issues to deal with. > > > > --- On Sat, 12/6/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Speaking of illegal Meteorites... > > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Saturday, December 6, 2008, 6:37 PM > > Hey Guys, > > > > All this talk about meteorites not being able to come out > > of Canada has me > > thinking... > > > > Argentina is known to come down hard on illegal fossil > > dealers at Tucson > > recently. > > > > Is there going to be a shortage of Campos this year at > > Tucson since the new > > laws came into effect in Argentina? > > > > If so, are we going to see a huge spike in their values? > > > > I don't know how much Campo material has moved each > > year for the last decade > > or so, but it has to be a very large amount. A strong > > Supply has kept the > > prices relatively low in the near past, but if all that is > > all of a sudden cut > > off, wow... > > > > Steve Arnold #1 > > www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com > > > > **Make your life easier with all your friends, > > email, and > > favorite sites in one place. Try it now. > > > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom > 0010) > > __ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
Hello Jeff, All, The comparison to Carancas was provided as a contrast simply because it is such an unusual and different meteorite, and yet the asking price for these new Canadian stones is roughly what Carancas is going for right now. It's a large, ordinary, equilibrated chondrite fall, the likes of which we see almost once a year with some regularity (e.g. Thuathe, Amgala, Park Forest, Kilabo, Bensour, Chergach, Bassikounou, Berduc, etc.). And the asking price is more than Park Forest, which was a spectacular urban fall, and of which less material was found. The asking price for Park Forest currently runs between $20-30/g, from what I can find. A dealer or two have it listed at $40/g, but...not average. The price at the time was...$20-30/g. It started high, and, because of great demand for the urban fall, it stayed high. All of the other falls are ~$1.20/g (see the beautifully fresh 1.7kg Chergach that just passed on ebay, from ET, as well as a brace of stones I personally bought in the 120g range from an American dealer) to the asking price of $5-10/g for pieces of the other falls (see ebay - meteoritica, Hupe - both have Chergach currently listed on ebay, and there's quite a bit of Bensour around if you want to compare that), not that they sell quickly at those prices. After all, if you look at what's listed, well, those are the pieces that have yet to sell. The only comparable meteorite I can find is the Argentinean fall of Berduc, which, though I can't name any names (it was a while ago), was listed between $10 and $30/g. Restricted export, few suppliers, fresh fall, etc. The initial determining of the asking price of a fall is essentially arbitrary The hunters could set it at $5/g or $10/g if they only wanted to cover personal costs (and make a little on the side). Or they could try to set it at $1000/g to make a profit. The only thing keeping them from charging that much is the knowledge that, at some point, they wouldn't turn a profit because their asking price would be too high for anyone to buy. A dealer looking to turn as high a profit as possible would ask as high a price as he could, while still selling all of his material. Why wouldn't they? Do you really feel indignant enough at the dealers' asking five or ten times the price for comparable falls to not buy a stone from them? Personally, I do, and I won't. I think they're taking advantage of us folks who love them, but who have jobs and obligations - people who love them enough that we would go on such trips that we could, but who can't because of our responsibilities. But let's have some fun. Lets assume these fellows come back with a mere 500g. Just over a pound of space, between the two of them. And let's assume a high trip/cost estimate: Given that next-day flights to Edmonton from where I live were ~$130, and let's say they both stay there for a week at $80/night + food, a carit works out to about a thousand dollars for the trip, each. $2,000 combined cost. If that's right, they would break even at $4/g. Each $1/g over $4/g would give them $500. If they're asking $50/g, they would make...$46x500. That's a profit of $23,000. And if my estimate was off and they each flew first-class, rented Hummers, and spent $50/day on food, they'll only make $20,000 off of 500g. ...Do you think they got more than a pound of material from the trip? I would assume so. A kilogram between the two of them would give them almost $50,000. Not bad for a quick flight up to Edmonton and a week's fun. I'll wait for the thaw. Anyone else who has spring break free (dates available), drop me a line and I'll see what kind of a trip we can arrange. What I can promise is that if I do find enough on that trip to warrant selling some, I'll have it at a reasonable price. Regards, Jason On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 11:18 PM, Jeff Kuyken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Steve and Mike both touched on an interesting point here that I was > pondering myself the last couple of days. The material found now will be > different to the material found weeks, months and years down the track. I > didn't realise how much a fall can vary until "Amgala" (Oum Dreyga). I > purchased a 15g individual from Mike Farmer from his very first batch of > about 1kg. I believe these were about the first stones picked up. I paid > about $10/g and it was worth every cent. I have several other Oum Dreyga > specimens from numerous sources and NONE come even close to the first 15g > which looks like soot would rub off on your hands. In fact no other recent > fall I have appears as fresh as this stone. Two other recent falls that come > immediately to mind with vast differences in weathering are Park Forest and > Moss. > > So maybe $50/g is high but maybe it's also not so bad considering what the > other stones 'might' be like down the track. You can also speculate all you > like but there are so many factors which will dictate the price of a fall. > And I don't think you can
