Re: [meteorite-list] Tunguska rates
Hi E.P. et al., actually, what the journalist of BI wrote is inaccurate. You can read in our report that we used 1 per 1000 years as our preferred value, following the most up-to-date frequency-size distribution [Brown et al, 2002], but we also tested 1 per 200 years [Shoemaker, 1983] and noted that the rate could be far higher if hypotheses from geomythology and related were to be verified. Best, ArnaudM > Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 18:20:11 -0800 > From: epgrond...@yahoo.com > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska rates > > Hi Arnauld, all, > > The problem is that Tunguska type blasts have been occuring recently (for the > last 5,000 years) at a rate of 1 per 100 years, not 1 per 1,000. Whether this > represents a short term phenonmenon or the long term rate is not currently > known. > > I used to put together catalogues of "known and suspected impacts", you may > want to google that, and if you have not bought a copy of "Man and Impact in > the Americas" yet, well, it is the best available recent impact rate data for > the Americas. > > E.P. Grondine > Man and Impact in the Americas > > > > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Windows 7: I wanted simpler, now it's simpler. I'm a rock star. http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_myidea:112009 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Don't learn anything?
Hi Bill, I was flabbergasted when I read your post (though I must admit I have not read all the posts on this thread)...I wondered if you were Getting the same list posts I get. I learn LOTS of stuff on the list EVERY DAY. For instance, the following are just SOME of the things I learn On the list on a regular basis: 1 - new falls 2 - URLs of stories of new falls - and some old ones with "new" info. 3 - URLs of videos of bolides 4 - What the opinions are (and why) who prefers what kind of GPS unite 5 - " ..metal detectors 6 - " ...meteorite cutting methods 7 - new books coming out 8 - who went to what new fall and what "stories" took place 9 - what countries are playing the "all the meteorites that fell in OUR country 'belong' to us only" game. 10 - When interesting shows are going to appear on TV - (like "The Meteorite Men") 11 through SEVERAL HUNDRED OTHER THINGS. So, what list are YOU reading? BTW, your post says "Bill Kies" Is that the same person as Bill Kieskowski? I really am sorry to hear of your embittered heart. Hope you get better soon. Sincerely, Michael On 11/14/09 10:43 PM, "bill kies" wrote: > Speaking from the ducks point of view. I, as I'm sure many hundreds of others, > joined this list to learn from the masters as well as pick up info on recent > falls. Well, I sure got a lesson. I don't expect jack anymore and I assure you > that I will never share meteorite knowledge of any kind on this list. It's a > damn shame. > __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Question regarding Vaca Muerta Strewnfield
Hello Felipe and List, Your online coordinates online for Vaca Muerta (25° 45' S / 70° 30' W) look good because there is an article in Meteoritics [PEDERSEN H. et al. (1992) Vaca Muerta mesosiderite strewnfield (Meteoritics 27-2, 1992, 126-135)] and on page 128 the authors write: "In Table 1 and Fig. 2, we give the (x,y) coordinates of each mass relative to the most distant large mass, VM 5 (= 557 kg), which is at 25° 50' S, 70° 23' W. Using the method of least squares (minimizing orthogonal distance) and giving equal weight to each of the 80 masses, we have determined the azimuth of the strewnfield to be 109° East of north. The fall zone is 700-800 m above sea level." Best of luck for your Vaca Muerta hunt, Bernd __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Barred Chondrule Fans JaH 055 incident light micrograph gallery update
Hello Tom and List, Stunning, breathtaking pictures, as usual! I like the very first shot best - the one which shows the BO chondrule and the "dislocated" fragment of this barred chondrule. Often the missing part of a chondrule cannot be found in the same part of the hand sample but here it is still there, quite close but definitely "torn" or "ripped" away from the rest of the chondrule. You also wrote: "The microscope I use is an *aus* Jena Neophot 21 metallurgical microscope" You don't need the *aus* because this German preposition only says that your microscope comes *from* the German town the name of which is "Jena" - famous for its quality optics! Best Sunday wishes from Germany, Bernd __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Don't learn anything?
H, what's going on? Sometimes I can't believe, what I'm reading here. It's maybe somewhat dangerous for me to write, cause in a way I liked the comment of Jason Chadwick.. Folks, I wish so badly to have a time machine to demote you all only 15 or 20 years back in time. No internet, no list, no fora, no books, no access to meteorites, no dealers, no fellow collectors, no news, no information, no pictures - only super-slow-motion conversation with the small handful of meteorite people, existing. NOW YOU HAVE IT ALL . Btw. Competition has also a good side, or shall we write again 20,000$ a gram on the lunars, 1000$ on the Acaps, 400$ on the howardites, 2$ on the rotten desert chondrites ?? Very strange, that debate, very very strange. Martin __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] (AD) 2 meteorites forsale
Hi list.Just another quick blurb here.I have 2 meteorites forsale.One of them is the JULY 3RD, 2009 SPACE ROCKS OF THE DAY.It is a 78.2 gram brecciated unclassified stone endcut.It originally came from the meteorites usa meteorite collection.It is highly brecciated and is a beauty. $350 takes it home.I also have a 240 gram IMPACT MELT BRECCIA unclassified stone endcut originally from the dean bessy meteorite collection.$300 will take it home.Free shipping solar system wide.Offlist please and pics upon request or go to space rocks of the for july to see. Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dawn's Re-Entry Into Asteroid Belt
Now..this is what were talking about. The LIST at it's best. Dispensing relative information that many listees wouldn't have thought of...or wouldn't have had the answer to if they did. And like Melanie says " you don't always know what you'll get". The next post could require one to hit the "papers" and "publications" to comprehend. The depth of the metoritical knowledge of the individuals who post on this List is unparalleled. What a resource! The List is a lecture, a symposium, an announcement, a discussion, an advertisement, a communication, a report, a sharingand it's free! Best regards and good hunting, Count Deiro -Original Message- >From: Meteorites USA >Sent: Nov 15, 2009 2:05 AM >To: "meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com" >Subject: [meteorite-list] Dawn's Re-Entry Into Asteroid Belt > > > >On November 13, Dawn will enter the asteroid belt to stay as its silent >flight takes it past 1.666 AU from the Sun. Dawn will remain in the belt >for the rest of its mission and well beyond. It will become a permanent >inhabitant of that part of the solar system, the first emissary from Earth >to take up residence in the main asteroid belt. http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/ > >Question: Is the spacecraft at risk in the asteroid belt? Since the Dawn >mission is to fly "through" the asteroid belt, is there any concern it >will be hit and destroyed by micrometeorites? > >Answer: More precisely, Dawn flies IN the asteroid belt, so it has a >very similar speed to the material around it. So, the material is a >little less dangerous that you might assume. But, most importantly, the >small meteoroids are far between and the chance of hitting one if you >are the size of Dawn is small (but not totally negligible). We, >therefore, are concerned and will avoid any region where we think there >might be higher than usual danger. Answer provided by Chris Russell, >Principal Investigator for the Dawn mission > >http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/features.cfm?feature=2361 >Dawn spacecraft is to reconnoiter Vesta and Ceres, the asteroid belt's >two most massive inhabitants -- the asteroid Vesta and dwarf planet Ceres. > >Enjoy... > >Regards, >Eric Wichman >Meteorites USA >__ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: RE: WHY HELP A DUMB A$$ N3W8IE?
Oops, I made 3 posts before bed, but my email got out of plain text... --- On Sat, 11/14/09, Mark Bowling wrote: > From: Mark Bowling > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: RE: WHY HELP A DUMB A$$ N3W8IE? > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, countde...@earthlink.net > Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 8:35 PM > One, two, three cookies, ha ha ha > (I guess the google sesame themes are still in my > mind...) > > Anyways, good reply Count (regarding > newbies). I enjoy the questions from newbies; a > diverse membership at all levels makes a healthy > hobby. And most disagreements/annoying posts usually > boil down to one solution: the delete key. Read the > initial post or two, and then read on or delete the > remainder. I haven't followed the Morocco thread > b/c my interests lie in local hunting rather than becoming a > dealer/importer. > > Nobody should be expected to reveal trade secrets, but > it never hurts to shake the trees to see what falls out (on > or OFF LIST). Somebody experienced may spark on then > and take them under their wing. I have met a lot of > wonderful friends on this list I'd bend over backwards > to assist. > > Clear skies and bolide dreams (but preferable > bolide realities) - to ALL! > Mark B. (more of a Serf than a Count) ;-) > Vail, AZ (magical land of meteorites, minerals and > headframes!) > > --- On Sat, 11/14/09, countde...@earthlink.net > wrote: > > > From: countde...@earthlink.net > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: RE: WHY HELP A > DUMB ASS NEWBIE? > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 6:32 PM > > > > > -Forwarded Message- > >From: countde...@earthlink.net > >Sent: Nov 14, 2009 8:30 PM > >To: Howard Steffic > >Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] WHY HELP A DUMB ASS > NEWBIE? > > > >Yes. I am Count Guido Roberto Deiro. Perillustrious > (Lord) of Precorsa and Arya, Knight Grand Cross of Justice > and Grand Chancellor of the Sovereign Dynastic Hospitaller > Order of St. John KOM, Knight Grand Cross of Justice of the > Sovereign Military Order of St. George, Guardia d'Honore > d'Italia e Nobile de Deiro. All that, and a twenty > dollar bill, will usually get one a good seating in a fine > restaurant. > > > >Seriously, if your interested, > access www.guidodeiro.com and look under > "contents" and "marriages" for > information and photos. The site was set up by City > University of New York and is about my father's career > and life...but I slid in there too. > > > >Best regards, > > > >Count Deiro (newbie) > > > >-Original Message- > >>From: Howard Steffic > >>Sent: Nov 14, 2009 5:26 PM > >>To: countde...@earthlink.net > >>Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] WHY HELP A DUMB ASS > NEWBIE? > >> > >> > >>Are you a real count? > >> > >> > >> > >>Howard > Steffic > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 13:56:52 -0500 > >>> From: countde...@earthlink.net > >>> To: carloselgua...@hotmail.com; > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WHY HELP A DUMB > ASS NEWBIE? > >>> > >>> Or, what do "newbies" mean to the > ongoing collection, classification, sale and display of > meteorites? > >>> > >>> I'm a "newbie". I > haven't yet found a meteorite and apparently this is > one of the qualifiers to be a "real deal" > meteorite hunter/collector. I don't have a clue what > other qualifiers are. What I have done, is sell my jet boat > 10 months ago and spend thousands of dollars subscribing to > magazines, purchasing books and field guides, buying an zoom > microscope, testing equipment, chemicals, magnifying loupes > and glasses, hand tools, a work bench, lighting, a locking > cabinet, neomydium magnets, a metal detector, picks and > shovels, back packs, desert hiking and camping clothing and > equipment, maps of strewn fields, a GPS device and I traded > my Ford sedan for a 4 wheel drive Jeep Cherokee. > >>> > >>> I found out about the LIST six months ago from > a neighbor, Sonny Clary, (who gave me my first meteorite and > continues to give me others..) I began reading every posting > on the LIST. I set about to collect examples of the requiste > types of meteorites and tektites > that you "real deals" write about. After > obtaining specimens of the three major classifications, I > began "going for the planetary rarities and the low tkw > stuff". I've collected sixty examples, as of today > and maintain a list of future "have to haves". > >>> > >>> All of the above...I'll say it > again...All..(except that Jeep)..was bought from individuals > and companies I found on on the "LIST". > >>> > >>> That's why "newbies" on the > "LIST" should be treated respectfully and > encouraged to ask questions. > >>> > >>> Count Deiro > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -Original Message- > From: Carl 's > Sent: Nov 14, 2009 10:04 AM > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Beating a dead > horse to
Re: [meteorite-list] (no subject)
At least they don't act like the NOOBS on the list. ;-) > --- On Sat, 11/14/09, Dennis Miller > wrote: > > From: Dennis Miller > Subject: [meteorite-list] (no subject) > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 8:17 PM > > _Meteorite Bashing Dictionary_ > > New-Bie [Noo-Bee, Nyoo-] -noun > > One who is inexperienced; one who's collection > is valued > less that one million dollars; an enthusiast who has > not > been published, in the meteorite world; one > who's name has > not made Cambridge Meteorite Encyclopedia; one who > admits to > not having all the answers and have to ask the > "Experts' > seemingly "dumb" questions. > > > How else does one escape the dreaded label > "Newbie" and enter > the realm of "expert" or "I can stand alone, > for I know everything"! > And believe me, years of service to the hobby means > little. > > Dennis > > > > > > _ > Windows 7: > I wanted simpler, now it's simpler. I'm a rock > star. > http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_myidea:112009 > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorites & Competition)
> From: Mark Bowling > Subject: Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorites & Competition) > To: "Adam" , "Adam Hupe" > > Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 11:16 PM Dear List, I think Adam has some great points. I think people forget how rare these things are. Prices often don't reflect that. I think people are more likely to give advice when a "newbie" asks something like, I've ruined several slices trying to do such & such, I've tried A and B, what else should I do. it shows that they're paying their dues, but need a little advice which they can probably absorb quickly, saving an "expert's" time. The sad thing is that a few slices/specimens have been ruined (maybe from "cheap, common NWA" material, but very rare, finite material nonetheless). How do you balance the protection of trade secrets and your business vs. the ideal of preserving this wonderful material? I suppose there are techniques which are common in parallel fields like lapidary, which one can assume they'll figure it out the hard way (both hard on their time/wallet but also hard on meteorites). I would say one should be somewhat eager to help in that case, since keeping quiet won't deter them but only make possible the damage of more specimens. However, offering help takes precious time, busy people lack. What about the possibility of a guidebook highlighting some of these "common" things? The first person(s) with the ability to write said tome could profit from the book sales, and many novices would benefit from the tips. Sensitive trade secrets could be mentioned by name and the disclaimer given that you will have to experiment at the peril of your collection and finances - or maybe find a willing mentor. The book would have to be relatively comprehensive - covering the common things which can be found in a lapidary book, but from a meteorite point of view (there might be possibility of tips like "it's wise to practice this technique using sandstone(?) because it approximates XYZ meteorites very well, and you can rest assured that your learning curve isn't busting the bank"). And it would also cover the meteorites specific topics like chemicals/oils to avoid, etc. Maybe some explanations of the different textures you will encounter in meteorites. Maybe a section on thin sections, epoxy plugs, and ? There might be room for general things like an explanation meteorite classifications, collecting strategies, strategies for documenting a collection of specimens, a list of common vendors, etc. There are lots of interesting, useful things that could be added that I can't imagine. Of course, you would have to have environmental, health and safety concerns highlighted and repeated throughout the book! I know this may sound a little out in left field, but it would help with the overall conservation of specimens and/or reduce poor, albeit, harmless results (as well as be an opportunity to make some money). Could it result in increased completion? Probably so, but those rushing head long into the wilderness probably can't be stopped anyway. And those who are inspired by the book may take a stab at it, but realize it's expensive, hard work and go back to only buying/trading/collecting. This book may exist, but I don't think so. I can think of a few books which explain etching and nickel testing, but I can't think of anything which comprehensively covers the preservation and preparation of meteorite specimens. Personally, I will always choose to buy from a handful of dealers held in high regard, who have invaluable reputations to protect (or middlemen I trust as friends I can trust). And some field hunters I know. I've decided to avoid attractive specimens of questionable pedigree, unless I'm willing to make the often expensive choice to advertise them as "believed to be XYZ specimen". So this book would not cause the big dealers to lose my (rare) business. When a "newbie" asks a question, you can point them to the "Bible". So what do you guys think? Crazy? Brilliant? (Someone with too much time on his hands tonight?) Is this an issue that's already on the IMCA "to-do" list? Is this not commercially viable? (Cricket chirping?) ;-) Clear skies, Mark > --- On Sat, 11/14/09, Adam Hupe > wrote: > > > From: Adam Hupe > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites & Competition > To: "Adam" > > Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 1:29 PM > > > Dear List, > > > I think it is crazy to talk about corporate greed and > meteorites at the same time. There are much simpler ways of > earning money than chasing and selling meteorites. You > have to have a love for these rocks to engage at this > level. The overhead is astonishing while the returns > are unpredictable in an incredibly thin market. Risk > management doesn't exist. > > I believe more corporate involvement is needed to push this > avocation to the next level. The IMCA is a perfect > example of a
Re: [meteorite-list] Jim Smaller
It was interesting the way Jim Kriegh and I met Jim Smaller. We were at the Tucson Gem Show many years ago seeing the big weekend show at the Tucson Community Center. Jim was showing me the gold displays, and he stopped by a wonderful display featuring an old gold mine in Colorado. Jim had lived in CO and went to college in Boulder and loved to hunt for gold so this display interested him greatly. As we were looking at and commenting on this a large man next to us told us that his father had worked at that mine and he was proud to see this at the Show. Somehow we got around to talking about gold hunting in Arizona, which led to meteorite hunting in Arizona, and he figured out who Jim Kriegh was right away. We laughed about that, and planned to hunt together someday but unfortunately we never organized a trip together. Twink Monrad __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] exact Carolina Bay crater locations, RB Firestone, A West, et al, two YD reviews, 2008 June, 2009 Nov, also 3 upcoming abstracts: Rich Murray 2009.11.14
On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 23:39:04 -0700, you wrote: >It is consistent with the ejecta layer from an impact event and ... >ejecta layer is consistent with an impact near the Great Lakes >that deposited terrestrial-like ejecta near the impact site and >unusual, titanium-rich projectile-like ejecta further away. ... >Ni, Co, U, Th and other trace element abundances are inconsistent >with all terrestrial and extraterrestrial (ET) sources except for >KREEP, a lunar igneous rock rich in potassium (K), rare-earth >elements (REE), phosphorus (P), and other incompatible elements >including U and Th. ... >Four holes in the Great Lakes, some deeper than Death Valley, >are proposed as possible craters produced by the airburst >breakup of a loosely aggregated projectile. ... >the Great Lakes or Hudson Bay. The magnetic grains and >spherules have an unusual Fe/Ti composition similar to lunar >Procellarum KREEP Terrane and the organic constituents are >enriched in 14C leading to radiocarbon dates often well into >the future. >These characteristics are inconsistent with known meteorites >and suggest that the impact was by a previous unobserved, >possibly extrasolar body. Okay, a review-- so far this impactor has been a 500 mile wide snowflake from the atmosphere of a supernova hitting at hundreds of kilometers per second. It has been an airburst over ice leaving no crater. It has left craters deeper than Death Valley in the Great Lakes. It has caused golden showers and a rain of diamonds that lasted for months. It shotgun-blasted iron particles into the tusks of mammoths. It has been a comet. It has been a chondrite, and all meteorites found by or through Nininger have been debris from it, so it was actually all types of chondrite and everything else Nininger collected. Now, it is an extrasolar lunar meteorite from the future. So, to sum it up, this 500 mile 10 mile very low-density metal and stone filled comet-asteroid supernova-produced lunar snowflake that struck at hundreds of kilometers per second did and didn't produce impact craters and left no marks except for the Great Lakes and thousands of very shallow overlapping, highly oblong pits exactly like craters from an impact event except for craters from an impact event rarely being very shallow, overlapping, highly oblong pits. It killed off all the lost Ice Age fauna at once, except for all of the Ice Age fauna, which went extinct at different times in different locations and spread out over thousands to tens of thousands of years (in some spots pretty darn well timed with the establishment of human populations, coincidence or no.) Oh, and somehow a supernova is still involved. That isn't refining an idea-- that is throwing everything you can think of against the wall and hoping that some of it sticks. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] exact Carolina Bay crater locations, RB Firestone, A West, et al, two YD reviews, 2008 June, 2009 Nov, also 3 upcoming abstracts: Rich Murray 2009.11.14
exact Carolina Bay crater locations, RB Firestone, A West, et al, two YD reviews, 2008 June, 2009 Nov, also 3 upcoming abstracts: Rich Murray 2009.11.14 http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2009_11_01_archive.htm Saturday, November 14, 2009 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/31 ___ http://ie.lbl.gov/mammoth/mammoth.html Firestone paper links http://ie.lbl.gov/mammoth/TunguskaConferenceA4_Firestone.pdf 37 pages Firestone, R.B.; West, A.; Revay Zs.; Hagstrum J.T.; Belgya T.; Que Hee S.S.; and Smith, A.R. (2008) Analysis of the Younger Dryas Impact Layer, 100 years since Tunguska phenomenon: past, present, and future, June 26-28, Moscow, in press. 54 references R.B. Firestone 1, A. West 2, Zs. Revay 3, J. T. Hagstrum 4, T. Belgya 3, S.S. Que Hee 5, and A.R. Smith 1 1 Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, Berkeley, Ca 94720, [ #43 Henderson, G.M.; Hall, B.L.; Smith, A.; & Robinson, L.F. (2006) Chem. Geol. 226, 298-308 ] 2 GeoScience Consulting, Box 1636, Dewey, Arizona 86327, 3 Institute for Isotope and Surface Chemistry, P.O. Box 77, H-1525 Budapest, Hungary, 4 U.S. Geological Survey, 345 Middlefield Road MS 937, Menlo Park, CA 94025, 5 University of California, Los Angeles, ICP-MS Facility, Los Angeles, CA 90095 Abstract We have uncovered a thin layer of magnetic grains and microspherules, carbon spherules, and glass-like carbon at nine sites across North America, a site in Belgium, and throughout the rims of 16 Carolina Bays. It is consistent with the ejecta layer from an impact event and has been dated to 12.9 ka BP coinciding with the onset of Younger Dryas (YD) cooling and widespread megafaunal extinctions in North America. At many locations the impact layer is directly below a black mat marking the sudden disappearance of the megafauna and Clovis people. The distribution pattern of the Younger Dryas boundary (YDB) ejecta layer is consistent with an impact near the Great Lakes that deposited terrestrial-like ejecta near the impact site and unusual, titanium-rich projectile-like ejecta further away. High water content associated with the ejecta, up to 28 at.% hydrogen (H), suggests the impact occurred over the Laurentide Ice Sheet. YDB microspherules and magnetic grains are highly enriched in TiO2. Magnetic grains from several sites are enriched in iridium (Ir), up to 117 ppb. The TiO2/FeO, K/Th, TiO2/Zr, Al2O3/FeO+MgO, CaO/Al2O3, REE/chondrite, FeO/MnO ratios and SiO2, Na2O, K2O, Cr2O3, Ni, Co, U, Th and other trace element abundances are inconsistent with all terrestrial and extraterrestrial (ET) sources except for KREEP, a lunar igneous rock rich in potassium (K), rare-earth elements (REE), phosphorus (P), and other incompatible elements including U and Th. Normal Fe, Ti, and 238U/235U isotopic abundances were found in the magnetic grains, but 234U was enriched over equilibrium values by 50% in Murray Springs and by 130% in Belgium. 40K abundance is enriched by up to 100% in YDB sediments and Clovis chert artifacts. Highly vesicular carbon spherules containing nanodiamonds, glass-like carbon, charcoal and soot found in large quantities in the YDB layer are consistent with an impact followed by intense burning. Four holes in the Great Lakes, some deeper than Death Valley, are proposed as possible craters produced by the airburst breakup of a loosely aggregated projectile. from Table 2: CLOVIS SITES: Blackwater Draw, NM- 34.27564N 103.32633W Chobot, AB, CAN- 52.99521N 114.71773W Gainey, MI- 42.93978N,, 83.72111W Murray Springs, AZ 31.57103N 110.17814W Wally's Beach, AB- 49.34183N 113.15440W Topper, SC -- T-1- 33.00554N,, 81.49001W Topper, SC -- T-2- 33.00545N,, 81.49056W CLOVIS-AGE SITES: Daisy Cave, CA--- 34.04207N 120.32009W Lake Hind, MB, CAN- 49.43970N 100.69783W Lommel, BELGIUM--- 51.23580N, 5.26403E Morley drumlin, AB 51.14853N, 114.93546W CAROLINA BAYS: (with paleosol beneath) Blackville, SC -- T13--- 33.36120N 81.30440W Myrtle Beach, SC -- M31-- 33.83776N 78.69565W Lk Mattamuskeet -- LM 35.51865N 76.267917W Howard Bay, NC -- HB 34.81417N 78.84753W [ http://ie.lbl.gov/mammoth/PP43A_10.pdf ] poster 1.07 MB CAROLINA BAYS: (no paleosol reached) Myrtle Beach, SC -- M33-- 33.81883N 78.74181W Myrtle Beach, SC -- M24-- 33.83118N 78.72379W Myrtle Beach, SC -- M32-- 33.84034N 78.70906W Salters Lake, NC -- B14--- 34.70992N 78.62043W Lumberton, NC -- L33- 34.75566N 79.10870W Lumberton, NC -- L28- 34.77766N 79.05008W Lumberton, NC -- L31- 34.78117N 79.04774W Lumberton, NC -- L32- 34.79324N 79.01871W Moore Cty, NC -- MC1--- 35.30104N 78. 84753W Sewell, NC -- FS3- 34.95800N 78.70280W Lake Phelps -- LP-- 35.78412N 76.434383W I looked all these up with Google Earth and Maps. In many cases, many craters overlap complexly, so it is not clear which is the one studied. It is always easy to find many more in each cluster.
[meteorite-list] hoba meteorite wanted please.
Dear All, If you have one, please email me with its information and price. Thanks a lot. Sincerely, Roke __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] exact Carolina Bay crater locations, RB Firestone, A West, et al, two YD reviews, 2008 June, 2009 Nov, also 3 upcoming abstracts: Rich Murray 2009.11.14
Patience Darren. Listed below are the various scenarios presently considered to account for the YD "impact"event. When there is an absence of a crater, research needs to dig deeper, much like the position of the Alvarez group in the '80s before a crater was found for the K/T event. We know that airbursts have happened in the past (e. g., Tunguska), the questions are, how big have they been and how big can they be? What was presented prior to 2006 has little to do with present considerations concerning the origin of the YD event based on the efforts of >60 scientists from eight countries. Most of these efforts have focused on analyzing materials from sites that occur from California to the Caspian Sea, not speculating on potential origins. However, we do need to work the data with various impact options in order to see what are good and bad fits: (1) An extraordinary accretion of micrometeorites (Pinter and Ishman, 2008), which is inconsistent with YDB carbon spherule compositions and the huge amount of nanodiamonds found within the YDB carbon spherules. (2) Oblique impact (s) into the Laurentide Ice Sheet. This model does account for the absence of a crater and the lack of cratering markers. Also provides for the shock production of the many cubic and lonsdaleite (hexagonal) nanodiamonds found in the YDB. (3) Impact-induced aerial burst (s), e. g, Boslough and Crawford (2007); Shuvalov (2008). The lack of high shock pressures in an aerial detonation does not necessary preclude the formation of cubic and hexagonal diamonds. Maruyama et al., (1993) made hexagonal and cubic diamonds by a CVD process from a high temperature plasma atmosphere (13,000 °C) under conditions similar to those in an aerial burst. The Tunguska event is commonly accepted as the result of a near surface aerial burst and has many similarities with the YD event, including diamonds. (4) Comet grazing of the atmosphere (Drobysheski, 2009). Nearly tangent entry of a comet into the Earth¹s atmosphere with partial detonation and melting followed by escape of the unexploded nucleus into space. Has the net effect of an atmosphere-penetrating aerial burst followed by global fallout of detonation products. More work and time may give us a better understanding of the YD impact mechanism. In the meantime, I suggest that you are what needs to be peeled off the wall. Get a clearer focus on pertinent literature and on-going research - the upcoming AGU Meeting, with pro and con abstracts on the subject, is a good place to start. Ted Bunch On 11/15/09 8:47 AM, "Darren Garrison" wrote: > On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 23:39:04 -0700, you wrote: > >> It is consistent with the ejecta layer from an impact event and > > ... > >> ejecta layer is consistent with an impact near the Great Lakes >> that deposited terrestrial-like ejecta near the impact site and >> unusual, titanium-rich projectile-like ejecta further away. > > ... > >> Ni, Co, U, Th and other trace element abundances are inconsistent >> with all terrestrial and extraterrestrial (ET) sources except for >> KREEP, a lunar igneous rock rich in potassium (K), rare-earth >> elements (REE), phosphorus (P), and other incompatible elements >> including U and Th. > > ... > >> Four holes in the Great Lakes, some deeper than Death Valley, >> are proposed as possible craters produced by the airburst >> breakup of a loosely aggregated projectile. > > ... > >> the Great Lakes or Hudson Bay. The magnetic grains and >> spherules have an unusual Fe/Ti composition similar to lunar >> Procellarum KREEP Terrane and the organic constituents are >> enriched in 14C leading to radiocarbon dates often well into >> the future. >> These characteristics are inconsistent with known meteorites >> and suggest that the impact was by a previous unobserved, >> possibly extrasolar body. > > > > Okay, a review-- so far this impactor has been a 500 mile wide snowflake from > the atmosphere of a supernova hitting at hundreds of kilometers per second. > It > has been an airburst over ice leaving no crater. It has left craters deeper > than Death Valley in the Great Lakes. It has caused golden showers and a rain > of diamonds that lasted for months. It shotgun-blasted iron particles into > the > tusks of mammoths. It has been a comet. It has been a chondrite, and all > meteorites found by or through Nininger have been debris from it, so it was > actually all types of chondrite and everything else Nininger collected. Now, > it > is an extrasolar lunar meteorite from the future. > > So, to sum it up, this 500 mile 10 mile very low-density metal and stone > filled > comet-asteroid supernova-produced lunar snowflake that struck at hundreds of > kilometers per second did and didn't produce impact craters and left no marks > except for the Great Lakes and thousands of very shallow overlapping, highly > oblong pits exactly like craters from an impact event except for craters from > an > impact event rarely being very shallow
Re: [meteorite-list] BEATING A DEAD HORSE - The future and beyond
Wow: All of this is pretty amazing. First of all, we ALL were newbies at some point. Also, I think newbies buy alot of meteorites from dealers too. You never know, a newbie now may spend 1000’s of $ over the next few years. Too me it's very bad business to treat you customers poorly, or make fun of them. That’s one wat to hurt sales. I joined this list to learn from the experts; if their goal is to keep knowledge from me or look down at me, I think that's sad and very disappointing. Then all this list becomes is a marketing site. Sure, info about a new find or cold finds being confidential is understandable. But what is wrong with helping someone with payment options to a Moroccan dealer? All I can said is I only buy meteorites from certain dealers, there is a reason for that – think about it. Greg S. > From: bencub...@hotmail.com > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 15:14:42 -0700 > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] BEATING A DEAD HORSE - The future and beyond > > > Well Greg... > > The way you ended your email pretty much says it all: > > Just my two pennies. From what I understand that is pyou pretty much all you > have to spend. So you get deserve two cents worth. Pretty much way down on > the food chain in my opinion. > > Business in the USA is a dog eat dog world. That is capitalizm dude. Didn't > you learn anything in business school? > > That is what I am talking about, Business. > > Good lOrd get a clue dude. > > Howard Steffic > > >> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:46:35 -0800 >> From: star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com >> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] BEATING A DEAD HORSE - The future and beyond >> >> I would have to agree with you Dave. >> >> I also think that it shows a good deal about someone who is willing to help >> others, just as it shows a good deal about those that are not willing. >> >> Howards comments reflect a perfect example of why I have grown to have the >> impression that meteorites are dog eat dog and question motives and reasons >> for certain things. >> >> Should we really look at educating and helping newer collectors and >> tomorrows hunters/dealers as "bad" and "training the competition" or should >> we look at it as making sure those that will take the reigns of this great >> hobby have learned from those that know how to do it right? >> >> Sure to some, meteorites are simply that "gold mine" or "money falling from >> the sky" while to others, meteorites offer a chance to take part in >> something, to learn about and take part in the study of space and history. >> >> I guess it all comes down to why people are into meteorites... For money, or >> for the science of meteoritics. sure the money is good, I wont deny that, >> but is that all its really about? No. >> >> We are gifted with some wonderful things from outside this planet that we >> would never be able to touch, test, learn from or anything else many claim >> to value and want to preserve. With that in mind, should it not be in all of >> our best interests to make sure that the future generation has learned from >> those that know how to properly document, record, preserve and care for the >> collections we value so much today? >> >> Sure, some may look at it as training competition, but perhaps they should >> really look at it as passing on a gift of knowledge to those that will >> follow in the footsteps of the path they have already traveled... >> >> just my 2 pennies, hope everyone is having a good day! >> >> >> Greg C. >> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com >> IMCA 4682 >> >> >> --- On Sat, 11/14/09, dave carothers wrote: >> >>> From: dave carothers >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Best ways to send payments - BEATING A DEAD >>> HORSEIs toMorocco >>> To: "Howard Steffic" , meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 1:20 PM >>> Howard, >>> >>> Respectfully... >>> >>> Reference your comment "I laugh at how the "newbies" expect >>> the veterans >>> with the battle scars to tell them exacty how to Hunt >>> Meteorites or >>> Sell on Ebay or send money overseas. Get off the couch and >>> do your own >>> legwork." >>> >>> Why should it bother YOU that someone should ask for for >>> advice or >>> assistance? Go back through the history of this list >>> and you will see >>> literally thousands of instances where dealers and >>> professional hunters have >>> freely offered advice and assistance to >>> "newbies". You don't think people >>> stay on this list for the ads, do you? You don't >>> think people stay on this >>> list for the disputes, cyber fist fights, etc, do >>> you? I personally stay on >>> this list (and I'm sure other do to) so we CAN ask for >>> advice and assistance >>> from the pros. >>> >>> I won't answer as to the motives or rationale of why >>> dealers and >>> professional hunters freely offer advice and assistance to >>>
[meteorite-list] new fall RICH friday 13 / 11/2009;; 21.25 cmt
hi guys each time of this year october and november we have a fall, it look it's a cyclique falls with the rotation of earth in a precise time and space with a small incertitude of a month, it fells over rich 20 km north est, ITS CONFIRMED ? more news to fallow, thanks aziz habibi habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] new fall RICH friday 13 / 11/2009; ; 21.25 cmt
Mahalo (thank you) Aziz for the updates of the recent fireball over Errachidia, Morocco. Last year around this time was Tamdakht, and I am anxious to hear of any recovery of this potential new fall. gary On Nov 15, 2009, at 7:22 AM, habibi abdelaziz wrote: > hi guys > each time of this year october and november we have a fall, > it look it's a cyclique falls with the rotation of earth in a precise time > and space with a small incertitude of a month, > > it fells over rich 20 km north est, > > ITS CONFIRMED ? more news to fallow, > > thanks > aziz habibi > > > habibi aziz > box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco > phone. 21235576145 > fax.21235576170 > > > > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Gary Fujihara AstroDay Institute 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 (808) 640-9161, fuj...@mac.com http://astroday.net __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in your Carry-On Luggage
I may be late for this: I was flying from DC with some meteorites and I carried them on (I never check anything I would not want to lose or need) and the TSA looked at them like the were from "outer space"... heHeHe... and they pulled me aside and asked me questions. I told the I was visiting the Smithsonian. Now there were about three of the looking at my stones handing to one another and looking a me oddly. At this point I was getting worried; a few 100 gram chondrites i found and some rare achondrites I have bought - including a mars meteorite. Well, after a bout 5 or 10 minutes they let me go... wow, I was sweating. I would certainly call the airline and check. Greg S. > From: astror...@hotmail.com > To: dar...@dof3.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 13:23:02 -0600 > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in your Carry-On Luggage > > > In mine, the TSA in Cairo considered my samples as "Hazardous Projectiles" > and would not allow them as carry-on. Had to check them. That was in > September. Got home with them O.K. Just fossels, got stopped for my > meteorite search in Sudan. > Dennis > >> From: dar...@dof3.com >> To: mars...@gmail.com >> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:56:38 -0500 >> CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in your Carry-On Luggage >> >> >> >> in my experience, it's at the discretion of the TSA supervisor on duty. >> >> good luck. best/ d, >> >> >> >> >> On Nov 14, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Kevin Kichinka wrote: >> >>> I want to bring two iron meteorites, one a Campo of 10 kgs., the other >>> a Gibeon of 4 kgs., to Costa Rica from Miami on American Airlines. I >>> would never check them and take a chance they might disappear. I would >>> carry them on the plane in a small suitcase. >>> >>> >>> Are these prohibited items? How do dealers flying around the planet to >>> shows ship their rocks? >>> >>> >>> Thanks for any and all that have experience with this and respond. >>> >>> >>> Kevin Kichinka >>> __ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> __ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > _ > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/ > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Barred Chondrule Fans JaH 055 incident light micrograph gallery update
Tom: You produce amazing pictures - you're an artist. You need to publish a book of you work. Greg S. > From: starsandsco...@aol.com > Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 22:21:10 -0500 > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Barred Chondrule Fans JaH 055 incident light > micrograph gallery update > > Hi List, Last week I emailed the list about a SaU 001 chondrule shot that > I wanted to send in full resolution to anyone who wanted it. > > There were over 40 takers but unfortunately many had Internet provider > limits on file size so they couldn't get the full size file. > > I had some beautiful high resolution shots of this JaH 055 chondrule that > you need to se to appreciate. They are not using a thin section and they > are in true color. Really what they look like way up close. I wanted to > send a full size file again but the last try didn't work out so well. > > Paul (Meteorite Times and Meteorite Exchange) helped out. He just set up > a new set of JaH 055 barred chondrule reflected light images on my gallery > and posted one full size in image of the month. You can down load it off > the site with out dealing with email size limits! > > Both can be found in my gallery > http://www.meteorite.com/meteorite-gallery/meteorites-feat_frame.htm > Select Features on the top tab and the image of the month or barred > chondrule. > > While you are there, I just put up a set of Al Huqf 007 taken in > transmitted cross polarized light. These are the colorful thin section Xpol > shots. > Some are quite abstract but beautiful (at least I think so). > > Please check them out. Thanks Tom Phillips > > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > _ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites & Competition
Hi Adam, I'm curios what you mean by "corporate involvement" when it concerns meteorites? With regards to the IMCA I am in partial agreement, and believe they are a good organization, and needed in this industry. But some restraint needs to be had with regard to the influence that these types of groups have. Historically speaking such groups tend to lean toward their own motives over time. There has been no organization in the history of man that has not given in, at least partially, to the temptation such influence. If you mean some sort of sponsorship of certain outreach and educational programs geared toward teaching children and young adults about astronomy and meteorites then I'm game. But if corporate involvement means losing the personality and integrity of the meteorite world through increased tampering by larger groups and politically or profit motivated companies who might in future times limit the publics access to meteorites then I'm not for that at all. This is a slippery slope... My personal beliefs are that people should have free access to the knowledge and information that meteorites and astronomy provides. The word "corporate" to me means restrictive for profit, and an example would be the corporate mentality of profit before people. I'm not necessarily referring to monetary profit, but rather to the increased influence particular groups may have over access to knowledge and information through the study of meteorites by individuals and the limited access that some scientific institutions have applied to certain collections. Collections that in my opinion every human being on the planet should have access to. Not to fondle and ogle the collection, but to view, study and learn. I'm not attacking here, I'm simply voicing a concern and my belief in the free access to knowledge that needs to be preserved. Thanks for listening... Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA Adam Hupe wrote: Dear List, I think it is crazy to talk about corporate greed and meteorites at the same time. There are much simpler ways of earning money than chasing and selling meteorites. You have to have a love for these rocks to engage at this level. The overhead is astonishing while the returns are unpredictable in an incredibly thin market. Risk management doesn't exist. I believe more corporate involvement is needed to push this avocation to the next level. The IMCA is a perfect example of a positive corporate influence on a mostly misunderstood hobby. What lacks the most right now is customer service and value added reselling. Most new dealers do not even polish out the saw marks on slices, let alone polish both sides. Collectors pay for both sides of a complete slice, not just one. It is disrespectful to cut a meteorite and then not complete the job. A good polish is more important for reasons beyond aesthetics. Certification is the most important aspect of collecting and is consistently lacking when dealing with meteorites. One just needs to look at coins, baseball cards and most other collectibles to see they are nearly worthless without it. In virtually ever other collectibles market, there are standards in place thanks to corporate interest. These days, some uninformed elements treat meteorites like commodities that are renewable. Nothing could be further from the truth. The lack of appreciation for these rarities is really on full display during these hard times. People forget that meteorites are millions of time rarer than gold that currently maintains a price of around $35.00/gram. May I remind you that now only about 1/20th the amount of meteorites by weight is all that is coming out of Moroccan compared to just five years ago according to my calculations. It will not be long before the non-available Antarctic meteorites regain the volume title once again. I do appreciate the real nomadic meteorite hunters from Morocco and surrounding countries. In my opinion, they are the best in world. It is what happens to meteorites after they leave the finders hands that concerns me. Standards, proper appreciation and corporate involvement are key to the long-term future. I see a business-like environment helping in all of these regards.Collectors deserve to have their investments protected. All the best, Adam __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorites & Competition)
Hello Mark and List, There is already a book that answers a lot of your questions, not all of them, but quite a few. It is the Handbook of Meteorites by O. Richard Norton. I certainly would recommend getting it. Also I would like to add one thing to the discussion about helping new meteorite enthusiasts; It is not because you did not see a response on the List that no help of response was sent. It is often a whole lot better to email that person privately to ask for additional details to narrow down the problem, or simply to protect that person from some public embarassement. I know I probably write 50 private emails for every one posted here. And then we are not all always glued to our computer (believe it or not!!), personally I have a book (about meteorites of course) to translate as quickly as possible so it will be available in Tucson. And Norbert Classen and I have the dubious honor of having to answer every question that comes in on the IMCA questions email address. Also time consuming. And right now I have a whole lot of snow to shovel!!! Have a nice day. Anne M. Black _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) _impact...@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) In a message dated 11/15/2009 8:30:51 AM Mountain Standard Time, mina...@yahoo.com writes: Dear List, I think Adam has some great points. I think people forget how rare these things are. Prices often don't reflect that. I think people are more likely to give advice when a "newbie" asks something like, I've ruined several slices trying to do such & such, I've tried A and B, what else should I do. it shows that they're paying their dues, but need a little advice which they can probably absorb quickly, saving an "expert's" time. The sad thing is that a few slices/specimens have been ruined (maybe from "cheap, common NWA" material, but very rare, finite material nonetheless). How do you balance the protection of trade secrets and your business vs. the ideal of preserving this wonderful material? I suppose there are techniques which are common in parallel fields like lapidary, which one can assume they'll figure it out the hard way (both hard on their time/wallet but also hard on meteorites). I would say one should be somewhat eager to help in that case, since keeping quiet won't deter them but only make possible the damage of more specimens. However, offering help takes precious time, busy people lack. What about the possibility of a guidebook highlighting some of these "common" things? The first person(s) with the ability to write said tome could profit from the book sales, and many novices would benefit from the tips. Sensitive trade secrets could be mentioned by name and the disclaimer given that you will have to experiment at the peril of your collection and finances - or maybe find a willing mentor. The book would have to be relatively comprehensive - covering the common things which can be found in a lapidary book, but from a meteorite point of view (there might be possibility of tips like "it's wise to practice this technique using sandstone(?) because it approximates XYZ meteorites very well, and you can rest assured that your learning curve isn't busting the bank"). And it would also cover the meteorites specific topics like chemicals/oils to avoid, etc. Maybe some explanations of the different textures you will encounter in meteorites. Maybe a section on thin sections, epoxy plugs, and ? There might be room for general things like an explanation meteorite classifications, collecting strategies, strategies for documenting a collection of specimens, a list of common vendors, etc. There are lots of interesting, useful things that could be added that I can't imagine. Of course, you would have to have environmental, health and safety concerns highlighted and repeated throughout the book! I know this may sound a little out in left field, but it would help with the overall conservation of specimens and/or reduce poor, albeit, harmless results (as well as be an opportunity to make some money). Could it result in increased completion? Probably so, but those rushing head long into the wilderness probably can't be stopped anyway. And those who are inspired by the book may take a stab at it, but realize it's expensive, hard work and go back to only buying/trading/collecting. This book may exist, but I don't think so. I can think of a few books which explain etching and nickel testing, but I can't think of anything which comprehensively covers the preservation and preparation of meteorite specimens. Personally, I will always choose to buy from a handful of dealers held in high regard, who have invaluable reputations to protect (or middlemen I trust as friends I can trust). And some field hunters I know. I've decided to avoid attractive specimens of quest
Re: [meteorite-list] Beating a dead horse...etc.
Hi Greg, Actually, all the dealers have been very helpful. The only one who thinks in terms of competition is Howard Steffic who I believe is not a dealer. Carl Greg Stanley wrote: >All of this is pretty amazing. First of all, we ALL were newbies at some point. Also, I think newbies buy alot of meteorites from dealers too. You never know, a newbie now may spend 1000’s of $ over the next few years. Too me it's very bad business to treat you customers poorly, or make fun of them. That’s one wat to hurt sales. I joined this list to learn from the experts; if their goal is to keep knowledge from me or look down at me, I think that's sad and very disappointing. Then all this list becomes is a marketing site. Sure, info about a new find or cold finds being confidential is understandable. But what is wrong with helping someone with payment options to a Moroccan dealer? All I can said is I only buy meteorites from certain dealers, there is a reason for that – think about it. _ Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn more. http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen:112009v2 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Beating a dead horse...etc.
List Dealers: Please let me apologize to all the dealers who have been helpful to the "newbies." Greg S. > From: carloselgua...@hotmail.com > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 10:58:33 -0800 > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Beating a dead horse...etc. > > > Hi Greg, > > Actually, all the dealers have been very helpful. The only one who thinks in > terms of competition is Howard Steffic who I believe is not a dealer. > > Carl > > > Greg Stanley wrote: >>All of this is pretty amazing. First of all, we ALL were newbies at some > point. Also, I think newbies buy alot of meteorites from dealers too. You > never know, a newbie now may spend 1000’s of $ over the next few years. Too > me it's very bad business to treat you customers poorly, or make fun of them. > That’s one wat to hurt sales. I joined this list to learn from the experts; if > their goal is to keep knowledge from me or look down at me, I think that's sad > and very disappointing. Then all this list becomes is a marketing site. Sure, > info about a new find or cold finds being confidential is understandable. But > what is wrong with helping someone with payment options to a Moroccan dealer? > All I can said is I only buy meteorites from certain dealers, there is a > reason > for that – think about it. > > > _ > Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn more. > http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen:112009v2 > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] "Don't Check My Bag if You Please....
.. Mr. Customs Man." - Arlo Guthrie "Coming in from London >From over the pole Flying in a big airliner Chickens flying everywhere around the plane Could we ever feel much finer? Coming into Los Angeles Bringing in a couple of keys" *** ... of small-scale examples of the ultimate weapons of (planetary) mass destruction - meteorites. Thanks to list members, Adam, Darryl, Robert, and two Dave's for sharing their experiences while hand-carrying mets on-board domestic and international flights. After my trips to the Tucson show (last visit- sadly way back in 2002), I'd return to Florida loaded with hand-grenade-size chondrites and cannon-ball-size Irons in my hand-carried without a worry of raising threat levels of terrorists tendencies to Code Red. But in 2009, I figured that the "times they are a-changing" (Dylan). Since 2003 I've made thirty (30, yes) round trips to my home here in Tambor de Alajuela, Costa Rica. I know the rules well (subject to change without notice) even if American Airlines only emails me frequent-flyer spam offers of Jamaican vacations but can't tell me when they change a baggage allowance. If I be gellin', it's packed in a checked bag. I fly out of FLL (Fort Lauderdale) after driving two hours across Alligator Alley in a rental car from Fort Myers. There's no easy "home return" for disallowed items, i.e. bunker-busting meteorites. As I learned last June when I tried (and eventually succeeded) in bringing aboard a new quad-processor PC, even the metal-framed box used to determine the acceptability of one's carry-on bag varies airport-to-airport forget what's on the American Airlines website. And nothing orally represented to you on the phone means anything at the check-in counter. The computer in its flimsy box was not a carry-on weight problem, and three inches less than the 45" cubic allowance, but of the wrong height dimension. Even if I paid $100 for checking a third bag, it was impossible to check without the baggage-handlers destroying it. We worked it out when I gave my day bag to a carry-on-free passenger to hand to me once we boarded. I carried on the computer. It wasn't my idea, the American Airlines check-in lady told me to do it that way. It's not the heat, it's the stupidity. Based on list members experiences, I don't believe one can routinely transport meteorites on a plane without the threat of loss or serious hassle so 'll have to settle for visitation rights back in Florida. Or I guess I could hire DHL. Thanks for the info. Meteorite Subject #2 While I would guess that all m-listers read the free, monthly, Meteorite Times to learn about meteorites and absorb and consider the worthy insights of its contributors, no one has yet mentioned the stellar November issue that Paul Harris has just put together. It's not to be missed. Martin Horejsi's sensitive and well-researched article on the Sudan fall "New Halfa" brings vivid color to this glossy-black, fusion crusted chondrite. Gentleman Jim Tobin's cleverly-written photo-essay of his recent Mojave adventure with best-buddy Paul takes you along as a welcome guest, ultimately blasting off for space measured in Oreo cookie kilometers. Norbert Classen posts a stunning photo of the world's largest Iron, Hoba, en sitio. Bob Verish teared me up with his well-written, intimate memoir enhanced by touching personal photos describing some quality time he spent with every one's friend, Richard. John Kashuba, offers this month a photo album of breccias, topped with NWA 2727, a mind-boggling lunar. And a tip of the sombrero to Darryl for obtaining the Indonesian ataxite Lovina. Click on Macovich.com from the Met Times opening ad page, then "Lovina", to view arguably the world's most incredible Iron. I blinked in disbelief the first time I laid eyes on it. I love Lovina. The Meteorite Times they are always a-changin', and if you read all of the issues you won't need a Weatherman to know which way the winds are a-blowin' the bolide smoke trail. Thanks to Paul and all those who donate their time to produce this wonderful contribution and help keep our meteoritic fires burning bright. Oh look, a toucan flying over my house! It's nature's way of telling me... to quit typing and go mow the lawn. >From Nine Degrees North, Kevin __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re : new fall RICH friday 13 / 11/2009; ; 21.25 cmt
mahalo gary, yes its found crusty velvet and magnetic, means chondrite or what else anyway will keep you and the list updated aziz habibi habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 - Message d'origine De : Gary Fujihara À : habibi abdelaziz Cc : meteorite list Envoyé le : Dim 15 Novembre 2009, 17 h 30 min 23 s Objet : Re: [meteorite-list] new fall RICH friday 13 / 11/2009;; 21.25 cmt Mahalo (thank you) Aziz for the updates of the recent fireball over Errachidia, Morocco. Last year around this time was Tamdakht, and I am anxious to hear of any recovery of this potential new fall. gary On Nov 15, 2009, at 7:22 AM, habibi abdelaziz wrote: > hi guys > each time of this year october and november we have a fall, > it look it's a cyclique falls with the rotation of earth in a precise time > and space with a small incertitude of a month, > > it fells over rich 20 km north est, > > ITS CONFIRMED ? more news to fallow, > > thanks > aziz habibi > > > habibi aziz > box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco > phone. 21235576145 > fax.21235576170 > > > > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Gary Fujihara AstroDay Institute 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 (808) 640-9161, fuj...@mac.com http://astroday.net __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] That makes it two meteorites know to have fallen in the NWA area this year!
Congratulations with the RICH Fall Aziz! Looking forward to the news to follow. That makes it the SECOND meteorite known to have fallen in the area this year! Remember my mail below? More info on this one will follow, after classification results (including gamma spectroscopy dating) will become final. Although a "find" (so far), first results point to an arrival at planet earth, last summer. It was found at a hundreds of kilometers distance from Rich. Best regards, Rob Lenssen http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/314g/314g-NWA.html http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/91g/91g-NWA.html From: "Rob Lenssen" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 8:41 PM Subject: Re: looking for classification advice for fresh find Dear List, Thank you for all your on- and off-List reactions. In general your advice is, to have it classified, including terrestrial dating, and to try to find as much as possible information on the find of this stone. I also have some references now, for the isotope terrestrial age determination. Thanks! Rob - Original Message - From: "habibi abdelaziz" To: "meteorite list" Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 6:22 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] new fall RICH friday 13 / 11/2009;; 21.25 cmt hi guys each time of this year october and november we have a fall, it look it's a cyclique falls with the rotation of earth in a precise time and space with a small incertitude of a month, it fells over rich 20 km north est, ITS CONFIRMED ? more news to fallow, thanks aziz habibi habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites & Competition
For whatever its worth, I've disagreed with both Adam and Eric on many occasions, and I'm quite certain both have disagreed with me before as well. That said, I thought Adam's post was superb, though the semantics ("corporate involvement," to reference just one point) may have been confusing. Eric, you wrote: "if corporate involvement means losing the personality and integrity of the meteorite world through increased tampering by larger groups and politically or profit motivated companies who might in future times limit the publics access to meteorites then I'm not for that at all". Not sure who the arbiter is for such matters, but let's assume it's you. The IMCA would not exist if the integrity of the meteorite world were so pristine, and there's no use jamming up bandwidth with examples. And to think that this arena understands marketing and packaging of these rarest of rocks on Earth is, well, profoundly off base. The we have the horrifying notion of profit. Profits are derived from offering products that prospective customers need or want at a price (that exceeds the costs of providing the product) deemed a value by said prospective customers. In other words, they will, on their own volition, pay the individual or entity for the act of procuring or developing then providing said product. Of course there is corporate corruption; yet there is corruption everywhere...even in the world of meteorites (thank you IMCA for addressing that). Anyway, would such undoubtedly evil, profit-motivated entities not prefer that public (read: customers) access to meteorites, if anything, be expanded? Then you wrote: "My personal beliefs are that people should have free access to the knowledge and information that meteorites and astronomy provides." And...? Then lastly: "The word "corporate" to me means restrictive for profit..." Wikipedia? Oh, goodness... Dave www.fallingrocks.com -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Meteorites USA Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:41 PM To: Adam Hupe Cc: Adam Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites & Competition Hi Adam, I'm curios what you mean by "corporate involvement" when it concerns meteorites? With regards to the IMCA I am in partial agreement, and believe they are a good organization, and needed in this industry. But some restraint needs to be had with regard to the influence that these types of groups have. Historically speaking such groups tend to lean toward their own motives over time. There has been no organization in the history of man that has not given in, at least partially, to the temptation such influence. If you mean some sort of sponsorship of certain outreach and educational programs geared toward teaching children and young adults about astronomy and meteorites then I'm game. But if corporate involvement means losing the personality and integrity of the meteorite world through increased tampering by larger groups and politically or profit motivated companies who might in future times limit the publics access to meteorites then I'm not for that at all. This is a slippery slope... My personal beliefs are that people should have free access to the knowledge and information that meteorites and astronomy provides. The word "corporate" to me means restrictive for profit, and an example would be the corporate mentality of profit before people. I'm not necessarily referring to monetary profit, but rather to the increased influence particular groups may have over access to knowledge and information through the study of meteorites by individuals and the limited access that some scientific institutions have applied to certain collections. Collections that in my opinion every human being on the planet should have access to. Not to fondle and ogle the collection, but to view, study and learn. I'm not attacking here, I'm simply voicing a concern and my belief in the free access to knowledge that needs to be preserved. Thanks for listening... Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA Adam Hupe wrote: > Dear List, > > > I think it is crazy to talk about corporate greed and meteorites at the same time. There are much simpler ways of earning money than chasing and selling meteorites. You have to have a love for these rocks to engage at this level. The overhead is astonishing while the returns are unpredictable in an incredibly thin market. Risk management doesn't exist. > > I believe more corporate involvement is needed to push this avocation to the next level. The IMCA is a perfect example of a positive corporate influence on a mostly misunderstood hobby. What lacks the most right now is customer service and value added reselling. Most new dealers do not even polish out the saw marks on slices, let alone polish both sides. Collectors pay for both sides of a complete slice, not just one. It is disrespectful to cut a meteorite and then not complete the j
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites & Competition
Well said Eric. I agree 110%. You said it much better than I did in my reply. There are two sides to everything, especially in the realm of business. And that is a core issue here - we are not just dealing with collecting, science, or trading. There is a marriage of personal collecting, science, and business for profit at work in the meteorite world. Different people are drawn to meteorites for a wide variety of reasons. No single group can represent all of those interests. Speaking just for myself, the IMCA does not represent me, but I do appreciate the good work they do to maintain the integrity of the market. I don't like the idea of a bunch of suits sitting around a table and contriving reasons to expand their influence. Whenever that happens, the average person is one who ends up losing out. IMO, the meteorite market polices itself very well. This List is a good example of that fact - despite some of the complaints about some of the personalities involved. If a meteorite is stolen, it is announced quickly on this List. If a trader misrepresents a specimen or pulls a scam, this List will hear about it. If the scammer is an IMCA member, then there is recourse. If the scammer uses PayPal, then there is recourse. If the scammer uses eBay, then there is recourse as well. People who are dishonest in their practices are quickly labelled as such and their reputations are ruined in this small world of meteorites. I can think of at least 2 major meteorite players who have become "persona non grata" during my short time of about 2 years on this List. In addition to this List, we have at least 2 other meteorite discussion forums that are active with high traffic - and all of them are populated by IMCA and MS members (and a bunch of good folks who aren't members of either group). The same people who are not welcome on this List would find themselves unwelcome in those places as well. I do think the meteorite market needs more consistency and structure, but we don't need an invitation-only club to make the decisions. Best regards and clear skies, MikeG On 11/15/09, Meteorites USA wrote: > Hi Adam, > > I'm curios what you mean by "corporate involvement" when it concerns > meteorites? With regards to the IMCA I am in partial agreement, and > believe they are a good organization, and needed in this industry. But > some restraint needs to be had with regard to the influence that these > types of groups have. Historically speaking such groups tend to lean > toward their own motives over time. There has been no organization in > the history of man that has not given in, at least partially, to the > temptation such influence. > > If you mean some sort of sponsorship of certain outreach and educational > programs geared toward teaching children and young adults about > astronomy and meteorites then I'm game. But if corporate involvement > means losing the personality and integrity of the meteorite world > through increased tampering by larger groups and politically or profit > motivated companies who might in future times limit the publics access > to meteorites then I'm not for that at all. This is a slippery slope... > > My personal beliefs are that people should have free access to the > knowledge and information that meteorites and astronomy provides. The > word "corporate" to me means restrictive for profit, and an example > would be the corporate mentality of profit before people. I'm not > necessarily referring to monetary profit, but rather to the increased > influence particular groups may have over access to knowledge and > information through the study of meteorites by individuals and the > limited access that some scientific institutions have applied to certain > collections. Collections that in my opinion every human being on the > planet should have access to. Not to fondle and ogle the collection, but > to view, study and learn. > > I'm not attacking here, I'm simply voicing a concern and my belief in > the free access to knowledge that needs to be preserved. > > Thanks for listening... > > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > > > Adam Hupe wrote: >> Dear List, >> >> >> I think it is crazy to talk about corporate greed and meteorites at the >> same time. There are much simpler ways of earning money than chasing and >> selling meteorites. You have to have a love for these rocks to engage at >> this level. The overhead is astonishing while the returns are >> unpredictable in an incredibly thin market. Risk management doesn't >> exist. >> >> I believe more corporate involvement is needed to push this avocation to >> the next level. The IMCA is a perfect example of a positive corporate >> influence on a mostly misunderstood hobby. What lacks the most right now >> is customer service and value added reselling. Most new dealers do not >> even polish out the saw marks on slices, let alone polish both sides. >> Collectors pay for both sides of a complete slice, not just o
Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorites & Competition)
Como esta? Anne and List Richard's book will always be a standard. I recently bought Caroline Smith, Sara Russell and Gretchen Benedix's new book "Meteorites". These gals "Drs" put together a great book for those with the slightest interest in meteorites. It's basic and very easy to read. Loads of great pictures too. I also like Kevin Kichinka's "The Art of Collecting Meteorites". Now, if you aren't a "Newbie" you will love McSween's "Meteorites and Their Parent Planets". I use my copy to fill up the shelf! But, what a Great Hobby, no matter what some say. Have A Great Day! Sorry Anne but, Think Snow!!! Dennis > From: impact...@aol.com > Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:45:39 -0500 > To: mina...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorites & > Competition) > > Hello Mark and List, > > There is already a book that answers a lot of your questions, not all of > them, but quite a few. It is the Handbook of Meteorites by O. Richard Norton. > I certainly would recommend getting it. > > Also I would like to add one thing to the discussion about helping new > meteorite enthusiasts; It is not because you did not see a response on the > List > that no help of response was sent. It is often a whole lot better to email > that person privately to ask for additional details to narrow down the > problem, or simply to protect that person from some public embarassement. I > know I > probably write 50 private emails for every one posted here. > > And then we are not all always glued to our computer (believe it or not!!), > personally I have a book (about meteorites of course) to translate as > quickly as possible so it will be available in Tucson. > > And Norbert Classen and I have the dubious honor of having to answer every > question that comes in on the IMCA questions email address. Also time > consuming. > > And right now I have a whole lot of snow to shovel!!! > Have a nice day. > > Anne M. Black > _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) > _impact...@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) > Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. > _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) > > > > In a message dated 11/15/2009 8:30:51 AM Mountain Standard Time, > mina...@yahoo.com writes: > Dear List, > > I think Adam has some great points. I think people forget how rare these > things are. Prices often don't reflect that. > > I think people are more likely to give advice when a "newbie" asks > something like, I've ruined several slices trying to do such & such, I've > tried A > and B, what else should I do. it shows that they're paying their dues, but > need a little advice which they can probably absorb quickly, saving an > "expert's" time. The sad thing is that a few slices/specimens have been ruined > (maybe from "cheap, common NWA" material, but very rare, finite material > nonetheless). > > How do you balance the protection of trade secrets and your business vs. > the ideal of preserving this wonderful material? I suppose there are > techniques which are common in parallel fields like lapidary, which one can > assume > they'll figure it out the hard way (both hard on their time/wallet but also > hard on meteorites). I would say one should be somewhat eager to help in > that case, since keeping quiet won't deter them but only make possible the > damage of more specimens. However, offering help takes precious time, busy > people lack. > > What about the possibility of a guidebook highlighting some of these > "common" things? The first person(s) with the ability to write said tome could > profit from the book sales, and many novices would benefit from the tips. > Sensitive trade secrets could be mentioned by name and the disclaimer given > that you will have to experiment at the peril of your collection and finances > - > or maybe find a willing mentor. > > The book would have to be relatively comprehensive - covering the common > things which can be found in a lapidary book, but from a meteorite point of > view (there might be possibility of tips like "it's wise to practice this > technique using sandstone(?) because it approximates XYZ meteorites very well, > and you can rest assured that your learning curve isn't busting the bank"). > And it would also cover the meteorites specific topics like chemicals/oils > to avoid, etc. Maybe some explanations of the different textures you will > encounter in meteorites. Maybe a section on thin sections, epoxy plugs, and ? > > There might be room for general things like an explanation meteorite > classifications, collecting strategies, strategies for documenting a > collection of > specimens, a list of common vendors, etc. There are lots of interesting, > useful things that could be added that I can't imagine. Of course, you would > have to have environmental, health and safety concerns highlighted and > repeated throughout the book! > > I know this may sound a little o
[meteorite-list] Observations on Age of Carolina Bays
As I will discuss in a paper that I am preparing, Carolina Bays are not at all difficult to date in terms of their age relative to the Younger Dryas as documented in a number of published, peer- reviewed papers and specific Cultural Resource Management reports. There is a huge amount of information available about either the age or relative age of the Carolina Bays to be found by carefully and persistently digging through the large number of publications about them and the geomorphology of the Atlantic coastal plain. 1. Radiocarbon dates, which are all minimum dates indicating when ground water conditions allowed the preservation of organic material within them. All the basal dates tells a person is the last time that a bay was permanently filled with water because of rising groundwater table, which is greatly influenced by rises and falls in eustatic sea level. Despite the fact that the radiocarbon dates are only minimum dates, they clearly demonstrate that the Carolina Bays predate the Younger Dryas event. 2. optically stimulated luminescence (OSL) dating is now a well established and proven dating method, which gives credible dates for the age of these landforms. A person might argued for mxing of older and younger sand, except that Dr. Ivester, whom I personally discussed this matter with on the GSA 2008 Meeting sand mantle, biomantle, mima mound field trip told me that he did not find the anomalies in the raw data for his dates that such mixing would create. Also, a person can always use single-grain OSL dating to unequivocally test for such mixing. Given that Dr. Ivester is a very experienced Quaternary geologist, the claim he dated the wrong material, in my opinion is the type of lame excuse that I hear from Young Earth creationists when the data refutes what they want to believe is the truth. If a person is going to make this claim, they need to back it up with hard and well-documented facts for it to be credible in any manner at all. 3. the pollen records from several Carolina Bays clearly go back to the last Glacial Maximum and in one bay, back to Oxygen Isotope Stage 5a. In many more Carolina Bays, the paleoenvironmental records start during full glacial conditions, several thousands of years before the hypothesized Younger Dryas event. Common sense and basic stratigraphic principles dictate that the Carolina Bays containing these records existed before any hypothesized Younger Dryas events as it is physically impossible for any sort of exterrestrial event / impact to create craters thousands of years before it occurs. It is impossible for mixing of sediment to have produced these records as the paleoenvironmental records recovered from Carolina Bays correlate precisely in time and nature to palynological records from non-Carolina Bay lakes and swamps in the same area as a Carolina Bay. 4. Cross-cutting relationships between well dated fluvial terraces (lacking Carolina Bays) cut and inset into older terraces and the Carolina Bays they exhibit establish the minimum age of Carolina Bays. Similarly the superposition dunes fields, which formed during the Late Glacial Maximum and lacking Carolina Bays, upon Carolina Bays that they partial bury, establish the preYounger Dryas age of the Carolina Bays. Both cross-cutting relationships and superposition is documented in great detail by LIDAR DEMs available for large parts of the Atlantic Coast. 5. Stratified archaeological sites demonstrates how Carolina Bays have been modified after the Younger Dryas. Carolina Bays on restricted government reservations indicate how historic argriculture and urban development have modified Carolina Bays during the last few decades by comparison. 6. All the presence of hypothesized impactites filling the Carolina Bays indicates is that preexisting Carolina Bays was filled by material from this hypothesized impact. The presence of hypothetical impactites within the loose soils of coastal plain sands forming the rim of Carolina Bays indicate is that bioturbation mixed material falling on the surface of into the loose sand forming the rims. The churning of surface materials deep into thick sandy epipedons is a well documented and well known process. 7. In the northern extent of the distribution of Carolina Bays, their orientation varies by over 120 degrees and based upon cross-cutting relationships and great differences in the degree of degradation of their rims strong indication of multiple generations of Carolina Bays having formed at greatly different time. The claim by Firestone that both the Carolina Bays and playa and other lakes point at a central point is based him having overlooked a significant amount of orientation data that both subtly and grossly contradicts and ultimately refutes this claim of his. 8. Although it is still in the realm of speculation, there appears to be evidence that indicates that the Carolina Bays in the Midlothian area are much older than the typical Ca
Re: [meteorite-list] new fall RICH friday 13 / 11/2009; ; 21.25 cmt
That is Great News Go Get em! Michael Cottingham On Nov 15, 2009, at 10:22 AM, habibi abdelaziz wrote: hi guys each time of this year october and november we have a fall, it look it's a cyclique falls with the rotation of earth in a precise time and space with a small incertitude of a month, it fells over rich 20 km north est, ITS CONFIRMED ? more news to fallow, thanks aziz habibi habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD - Two museum pieces ending today
Hello all Just two pieces this week Don't be afraid to "best offer" the 2kg Brenham http://shop.ebay.com/nakhladog/m.html Rob Wesel www.nakhladogmeteorites.com www.facebook.com/nakhladog -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Two museum pieces ending today
Hello Rob, your impact melt slice "starry night": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkvLq0TYiwI and http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/VanGogh-starry_night.jpg Best, Matthias B. - Original Message - From: "Rob Wesel" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 9:11 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Two museum pieces ending today Hello all Just two pieces this week Don't be afraid to "best offer" the 2kg Brenham http://shop.ebay.com/nakhladog/m.html Rob Wesel www.nakhladogmeteorites.com www.facebook.com/nakhladog -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites & Competition
I liked the comment about suits siting around a board table like is done with oil and gold. That is such an one sided way of doing commerce (some old fuddy siting at a table with his country's flag in his hand agreeing to pay x dollars for a commodity that he makes so much anyway, he could care less how it affects those at the bottom of the wage scales, where is the free enterprise, yet men just like this run our lives. Keeping that mentality out of meteorites goes a long long way, and dealing with the principles (those who actually find the meteorites) will do more for keeping the science and hobby alive than most could see. I find it harsh and wrong to pay a middleman a high price when he has undercut or misled the finder. By the same token, without some middlemen, we wouldn't have many finds and they would have been dumped on the ground as a waste of time and the strewn field forgotten about. Keeping things real and in perspective are important. Mark Ferguson On November 15, 7:03 pm "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" wrote: > Well said Eric. I agree 110%. > > You said it much better than I did in my reply. > > There are two sides to everything, especially in the realm of > business. And that is a core issue here - we are not just dealing > with collecting, science, or trading. There is a marriage of > personal collecting, science, and business for profit at work in the > meteorite world. Different people are drawn to meteorites for a wide > variety of reasons. No single group can represent all of those > interests. Speaking just for myself, the IMCA does not represent me, > but I do appreciate the good work they do to maintain the integrity of > the market. > > I don't like the idea of a bunch of suits sitting around a table and > contriving reasons to expand their influence. Whenever that happens, > the average person is one who ends up losing out. IMO, the meteorite > market polices itself very well. This List is a good example of that > fact - despite some of the complaints about some of the personalities > involved. If a meteorite is stolen, it is announced quickly on this > List. If a trader misrepresents a specimen or pulls a scam, this List > will hear about it. If the scammer is an IMCA member, then there is > recourse. If the scammer uses PayPal, then there is recourse. If the > scammer uses eBay, then there is recourse as well. People who are > dishonest in their practices are quickly labelled as such and their > reputations are ruined in this small world of meteorites. I can > think of at least 2 major meteorite players who have become "persona > non grata" during my short time of about 2 years on this List. In > addition to this List, we have at least 2 other meteorite discussion > forums that are active with high traffic - and all of them are > populated by IMCA and MS members (and a bunch of good folks who aren't > members of either group). The same people who are not welcome on this > List would find themselves unwelcome in those places as well. > > I do think the meteorite market needs more consistency and structure, > but we don't need an invitation-only club to make the decisions. > > Best regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > > > > > > > On 11/15/09, Meteorites USA wrote: > > Hi Adam, > > > > I'm curios what you mean by "corporate involvement" when it > > concerns meteorites? With regards to the IMCA I am in partial > > agreement, and believe they are a good organization, and needed in > > this industry. But some restraint needs to be had with regard to > > the influence that these types of groups have. Historically > > speaking such groups tend to lean toward their own motives over > > time. There has been no organization in the history of man that > > has not given in, at least partially, to the temptation such > > influence. > > If you mean some sort of sponsorship of certain outreach and > > educational programs geared toward teaching children and young > > adults about astronomy and meteorites then I'm game. But if > > corporate involvement means losing the personality and integrity > > of the meteorite world through increased tampering by larger > > groups and politically or profit motivated companies who might in > > future times limit the publics access to meteorites then I'm not > > for that at all. This is a slippery slope... > > My personal beliefs are that people should have free access to the > > knowledge and information that meteorites and astronomy provides. > > The word "corporate" to me means restrictive for profit, and an > > example would be the corporate mentality of profit before people. > > I'm not necessarily referring to monetary profit, but rather to > > the increased influence particular groups may have over access to > > knowledge and information through the study of meteorites by > > individuals and the limited access that some scientific > > institutions have applied to certain collections. Collections tha
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites & Competition
Hi Dave, List, Adam and all who care, Let me be absolutely clear in my statement and meaning so as no to confuse anyone about my beliefs and views on the IMCA, corporations, profit, and the influence that such entities have on the meteorite world and access to the knowledge it provides people about our universe. Profit is not always monetary. In fact profit can be and is power and influence based on what the intrinsic cost of input versus what's returned, whether that be a trade in time investment, or a tangible product. Everything has value, and more importantly that perceived value is what makes the world go round. I support the IMCA and what they stand for and have respect and admiration for the people who created it and work hard to build it everyday. I have many friends and business colleagues who are members of the IMCA and members of the board. I have been invited many times to become a member and have politely and respectfully declined to join at this time. This is not to say that I will not ever become a member, nor does it say that I dislike the IMCA at all or even worse, view them in a negative light, which I do not. I am NOT an arbiter for corporate sponsorship, or the IMCA, nor do I subscribe to the view that anyone should be. The integrity of the meteorite world is based upon the integrity of individuals within this community, and NOT any one group. Your statement Dave: "...'The word "corporate" to me means restrictive for profit...'..." Wikipedia? Oh, goodness..." No, that's not Wikipedia at all, that's my view, and just what I said it was. ;) There is nothing horrifying about profit, and if I understand your post correctly and if you were simply being facetious, I would agree. The issue is not profit, the issue is about at the very least the temptation of influencing restrictive rules or guidelines that limits public access to knowledge and physical display of specimens. "...Then you wrote: "My personal beliefs are that people should have free access to the knowledge and information that meteorites and astronomy provides." And...? ..." To answer your simple question, I will give a simple answer. I've already said it. Don't limit or restrict access or use the power and influence of a group to control something which should be freely available knowledge. Let other enjoy the meteorites too... Share. This has all been hashed out in the past, and I'm not trying to bring something up that's already been discussed at length, I'm not attacking anyone or any group, I'm simply saying I don't like group power because they tend to forget about the little guy, whether it be purposefully or by unintentional means. Respectfully of course... Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA Dave Gheesling wrote: For whatever its worth, I've disagreed with both Adam and Eric on many occasions, and I'm quite certain both have disagreed with me before as well. That said, I thought Adam's post was superb, though the semantics ("corporate involvement," to reference just one point) may have been confusing. Eric, you wrote: "if corporate involvement means losing the personality and integrity of the meteorite world through increased tampering by larger groups and politically or profit motivated companies who might in future times limit the publics access to meteorites then I'm not for that at all". Not sure who the arbiter is for such matters, but let's assume it's you. The IMCA would not exist if the integrity of the meteorite world were so pristine, and there's no use jamming up bandwidth with examples. And to think that this arena understands marketing and packaging of these rarest of rocks on Earth is, well, profoundly off base. The we have the horrifying notion of profit. Profits are derived from offering products that prospective customers need or want at a price (that exceeds the costs of providing the product) deemed a value by said prospective customers. In other words, they will, on their own volition, pay the individual or entity for the act of procuring or developing then providing said product. Of course there is corporate corruption; yet there is corruption everywhere...even in the world of meteorites (thank you IMCA for addressing that). Anyway, would such undoubtedly evil, profit-motivated entities not prefer that public (read: customers) access to meteorites, if anything, be expanded? Then you wrote: "My personal beliefs are that people should have free access to the knowledge and information that meteorites and astronomy provides." And...? Then lastly: "The word "corporate" to me means restrictive for profit..." Wikipedia? Oh, goodness... Dave www.fallingrocks.com -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Meteorites USA Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:41 PM To: Adam Hupe Cc: Adam Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites & Competit
Re: [meteorite-list] That makes it two meteorites know to have fallen in the NWA area this year!
<990ed361d20f4ce58358e25f62e8d...@eigenaarnjeqjy> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Very fresh=2C great stuff!=20 --- Melanie IMCA: 2975 eBay: metmel2775 Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09 Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you never know what= you're gonna get! > From: rlens...@planet.nl > To: azizhab...@yahoo.com=3b Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sun=2C 15 Nov 2009 20:22:15 +0100 > Subject: [meteorite-list] That makes it two meteorites know to have falle= n in the NWA area this year! > > Congratulations with the RICH Fall Aziz! > Looking forward to the news to follow. > > That makes it the SECOND meteorite known to have fallen in the area this > year! > > Remember my mail below? > More info on this one will follow=2C after classification results (includ= ing > gamma spectroscopy dating) will become final. > Although a "find" (so far)=2C first results point to an arrival at planet > earth=2C last summer. It was found at a hundreds of kilometers distance f= rom > Rich. > > Best regards=2C > Rob Lenssen > http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/314g/314g-NWA.html > http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/91g/91g-NWA.html > > -= --- > From: "Rob Lenssen"=20 > To:=20 > Sent: Wednesday=2C August 19=2C 2009 8:41 PM > Subject: Re: looking for classification advice for fresh find > > >> Dear List=2C >> >> Thank you for all your on- and off-List reactions. >> In general your advice is=2C to have it classified=2C including terrestr= ial >> dating=2C and to try to find as much as possible information on the find= of >> this stone. >> I also have some references now=2C for the isotope terrestrial age >> determination. >> >> Thanks! >> Rob > -= --- > > - Original Message - > From: "habibi abdelaziz"=20 > To: "meteorite list"=20 > Sent: Sunday=2C November 15=2C 2009 6:22 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] new fall RICH friday 13 / 11/2009=3B=3B 21.25 c= mt > > > hi guys > each time of this year october and november we have a fall=2C > it look it's a cyclique falls with the rotation of earth in a precise tim= e > and space with a small incertitude of a month=2C > > it fells over rich 20 km north est=2C > > ITS CONFIRMED ? more news to fallow=2C > > thanks > aziz habibi > > > habibi aziz > box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco > phone. 21235576145 > fax.21235576170 > > > > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list =20 _ Eligible CDN College & University students can upgrade to Windows 7 before = Jan 3 for only $39.99. Upgrade now! http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=3D9691819= __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] That makes it two meteorites know to have fallen in the NWA area this year!
does anyone know why this extra text appears in some emails? (ie Melanie's email below) > From: spacewoman2...@hotmail.com > To: rlens...@planet.nl; azizhab...@yahoo.com; > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:46:48 -0800 > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] That makes it two meteorites know to have > fallen in the NWA area this year! > > > <990ed361d20f4ce58358e25f62e8d...@eigenaarnjeqjy> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > > Very fresh=2C great stuff!=20 > > > --- > Melanie > IMCA: 2975 > eBay: metmel2775 > Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09 > > Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you never know what= > you're gonna get! > > > > > > > >> From: rlens...@planet.nl >> To: azizhab...@yahoo.com=3b Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Sun=2C 15 Nov 2009 20:22:15 +0100 >> Subject: [meteorite-list] That makes it two meteorites know to have falle= > n in the NWA area this year! >> >> Congratulations with the RICH Fall Aziz! >> Looking forward to the news to follow. >> >> That makes it the SECOND meteorite known to have fallen in the area this >> year! >> >> Remember my mail below? >> More info on this one will follow=2C after classification results (includ= > ing >> gamma spectroscopy dating) will become final. >> Although a "find" (so far)=2C first results point to an arrival at planet >> earth=2C last summer. It was found at a hundreds of kilometers distance f= > rom >> Rich. >> >> Best regards=2C >> Rob Lenssen >> http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/314g/314g-NWA.html >> http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/91g/91g-NWA.html >> >> -= > --- >> From: "Rob Lenssen"=20 >> To:=20 >> Sent: Wednesday=2C August 19=2C 2009 8:41 PM >> Subject: Re: looking for classification advice for fresh find >> >> >>> Dear List=2C >>> >>> Thank you for all your on- and off-List reactions. >>> In general your advice is=2C to have it classified=2C including terrestr= > ial >>> dating=2C and to try to find as much as possible information on the find= > of >>> this stone. >>> I also have some references now=2C for the isotope terrestrial age >>> determination. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> Rob >> -= > --- >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "habibi abdelaziz"=20 >> To: "meteorite list"=20 >> Sent: Sunday=2C November 15=2C 2009 6:22 PM >> Subject: [meteorite-list] new fall RICH friday 13 / 11/2009=3B=3B 21.25 c= > mt >> >> >> hi guys >> each time of this year october and november we have a fall=2C >> it look it's a cyclique falls with the rotation of earth in a precise tim= > e >> and space with a small incertitude of a month=2C >> >> it fells over rich 20 km north est=2C >> >> ITS CONFIRMED ? more news to fallow=2C >> >> thanks >> aziz habibi >> >> >> habibi aziz >> box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco >> phone. 21235576145 >> fax.21235576170 >> >> >> >> __ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> __ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > =20 > _ > Eligible CDN College & University students can upgrade to Windows 7 before = > Jan 3 for only $39.99. Upgrade now! > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=3D9691819= > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > _ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] new fall RICH friday 13 / 11/2009; ; 21.25 cmt
could there be a "cloud" of objects that Earth's orbit flys through? On November 15, 5:33 pm michael cottingham wrote: > That is Great News Go Get em! > > Michael Cottingham > On Nov 15, 2009, at 10:22 AM, habibi abdelaziz wrote: > > > hi guys > > each time of this year october and november we have a fall, > > it look it's a cyclique falls with the rotation of earth in a > > precise time and space with a small incertitude of a month, > > > > it fells over rich 20 km north est, > > > > ITS CONFIRMED ? more news to fallow, > > > > thanks > > aziz habibi > > > > > > habibi aziz > > box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco > > phone. 21235576145 > > fax.21235576170 > > > > > > > > __ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] That makes it two meteorites know to have fallen in the NWA area this year!
Greg,You, Melanie, me, and others are cursed with "Hotmail" crap. I find this happens with plain text, rich text, any text. I don't see this happening with any other email service. Dennis > From: stanleygr...@hotmail.com > To: spacewoman2...@hotmail.com; rlens...@planet.nl; azizhab...@yahoo.com; > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:50:44 -0800 > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] That makes it two meteorites know to have > fallen in the NWA area this year! > > > does anyone know why this extra text appears in some emails? (ie Melanie's > email below) > > >> From: spacewoman2...@hotmail.com >> To: rlens...@planet.nl; azizhab...@yahoo.com; >> meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:46:48 -0800 >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] That makes it two meteorites know to have >> fallen in the NWA area this year! >> >> >> <990ed361d20f4ce58358e25f62e8d...@eigenaarnjeqjy> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> >> >> Very fresh=2C great stuff!=20 >> >> >> --- >> Melanie >> IMCA: 2975 >> eBay: metmel2775 >> Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09 >> >> Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you never know what= >> you're gonna get! >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> From: rlens...@planet.nl >>> To: azizhab...@yahoo.com=3b Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> Date: Sun=2C 15 Nov 2009 20:22:15 +0100 >>> Subject: [meteorite-list] That makes it two meteorites know to have falle= >> n in the NWA area this year! >>> >>> Congratulations with the RICH Fall Aziz! >>> Looking forward to the news to follow. >>> >>> That makes it the SECOND meteorite known to have fallen in the area this >>> year! >>> >>> Remember my mail below? >>> More info on this one will follow=2C after classification results (includ= >> ing >>> gamma spectroscopy dating) will become final. >>> Although a "find" (so far)=2C first results point to an arrival at planet >>> earth=2C last summer. It was found at a hundreds of kilometers distance f= >> rom >>> Rich. >>> >>> Best regards=2C >>> Rob Lenssen >>> http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/314g/314g-NWA.html >>> http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/91g/91g-NWA.html >>> >>> -= >> --- >>> From: "Rob Lenssen"=20 >>> To:=20 >>> Sent: Wednesday=2C August 19=2C 2009 8:41 PM >>> Subject: Re: looking for classification advice for fresh find >>> >>> Dear List=2C Thank you for all your on- and off-List reactions. In general your advice is=2C to have it classified=2C including terrestr= >> ial dating=2C and to try to find as much as possible information on the find= >> of this stone. I also have some references now=2C for the isotope terrestrial age determination. Thanks! Rob >>> -= >> --- >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "habibi abdelaziz"=20 >>> To: "meteorite list"=20 >>> Sent: Sunday=2C November 15=2C 2009 6:22 PM >>> Subject: [meteorite-list] new fall RICH friday 13 / 11/2009=3B=3B 21.25 c= >> mt >>> >>> >>> hi guys >>> each time of this year october and november we have a fall=2C >>> it look it's a cyclique falls with the rotation of earth in a precise tim= >> e >>> and space with a small incertitude of a month=2C >>> >>> it fells over rich 20 km north est=2C >>> >>> ITS CONFIRMED ? more news to fallow=2C >>> >>> thanks >>> aziz habibi >>> >>> >>> habibi aziz >>> box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco >>> phone. 21235576145 >>> fax.21235576170 >>> >>> >>> >>> __ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> __ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> =20 >> _ >> Eligible CDN College & University students can upgrade to Windows 7 before = >> Jan 3 for only $39.99. Upgrade now! >> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=3D9691819= >> __ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > _ > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/ > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteo
Re: [meteorite-list] Observations on Age of Carolina Bays: Paul H: Rich Murray 2009.11.15
Re: [meteorite-list] Observations on Age of Carolina Bays: Paul H: Rich Murray 2009.11.15 http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2009_11_01_archive.htm Sunday, November 15, 2009 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/32 Hello all, I am very appreciative of Paul's conscientious, careful contributions, based on civility, reason, and public evidence. Will there be many confirmations of ET markers in classic Carolina Bays? And in similar clusters in many parts of the world? Will a single place and time be found for a single or multiple sources, or multiple sources with multiple places and times? Are data already available for mineral elements and isotopes at classic and possible Carolina Bay type craters? I find cracked, broken, overturned, and tossed bedrocks up to 2 m size at many craters near Santa Fe, New Mexico. Many of these rocks have white, grey, greenish, red-brown, and black glazes or coatings, from 0.1 to 10 cm thick, even curled around the edge of bedrock layers for 10 cm, often with rough surface textures with little wind or water erosion. Also ordinary white quartz rocks up to 20 cm, glazed on one side with what appears as 0.2 to 3 cm melted quartz, sometimes with a yellow tinge. And 3 m thick level sandstone layers, exposed roadcuts about 30 m above the landscape, that have up to 10 cm white and gray mineral layers that appear to have been plastered on the vertical surfaces. I will glad to show visitors my samples, and to give tours of accessible sites -- many right beside public roads. I will be happy to search for sites with Google Earth for free within 80 km of any location, so they can be studied by those who live near the center coordinates. Best, Rich Murray exact Carolina Bay crater locations, RB Firestone, A West, et al, two YD reviews, 2008 June, 2009 Nov, also 3 upcoming abstracts: Rich Murray 2009.11.14 http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2009_11_01_archive.htm Saturday, November 14, 2009 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/31 nanodiamond evidence for 12,900 BP Clovis extinction impact, Santa Rosa Island, discussion on Scientific American website, Carolina Bay type craters east of Las Vegas, NM: Rich Murray 2009.09.15 http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2009_06_01_archive.htm Friday, July 24, 2009 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AstroDeep/28 widespread Carolina Bay type craters from Clovis comet 12,900 Ya BP? -- 0.7 M long NS crater with fractured red sandstone on SW rim, CR C 53A, 20 miles E of Las Vegas, NM: Rich Murray 2009.06.08 http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2009_06_01_archive.htm Monday, June 8, 2009 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AstroDeep/27 _ - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:46 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Observations on Age of Carolina Bays __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing listis Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list As I will discuss in a paper that I am preparing, Carolina Bays are not at all difficult to date in terms of their age relative to the Younger Dryas as documented in a number of published, peer- reviewed papers and specific Cultural Resource Management reports. There is a huge amount of information available about either the age or relative age of the Carolina Bays to be found by carefully and persistently digging through the large number of publications about them and the geomorphology of the Atlantic coastal plain. 1. Radiocarbon dates are all minimum dates indicating when ground water conditions allowed the preservation of organic material within them. All the basal dates tells a person is the last time that a bay was permanently filled with water because of a rising groundwater table, which is greatly influenced by rises and falls in eustatic sea level. Despite the fact that the radiocarbon dates are only minimum dates, they clearly demonstrate that the Carolina Bays predate the Younger Dryas event. 2. Optically Stimulated Luminescence (OSL) dating is now a well established and proven dating method, which gives credible dates for the age of these landforms. A person might argued for mxing of older and younger sand, except that Dr. Ivester, whom I personally discussed this matter with on the GSA 2008 Meeting sand mantle, biomantle, mima mound field trip told me that he did not find the anomalies in the raw data for his dates that such mixing would create. Also, a person can always use single-grain OSL dating to unequivocally test for such mixing. Given that Dr. Ivester is a very experienced Quaternary geologist, the claim he dated the wrong material, in my opinion is the type of lame excuse that I hear from Young Earth creationists when the data refutes what they want to believe is the truth. If a person is going to make this claim, they need to back it up with hard and well-documented facts for it to be credible in any manner
[meteorite-list] AD: Auctions ending in an hour or so... Gibeon Egg, Sikhote Alin stamp, Henbury, LDG, Moldavite and more...
Here are some cool auctions, that are ending soon, they are mine, so buy lots and lots of stuff. http://shop.ebay.com/callistodesigns/m.html?_trkparms=65%253A10%257C66%253A4%257C39%253A1&_ipg=&_sticky=1&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_sop=1&_sc=1 Here is a beautiful Libyan Desert Glass: http://cgi.ebay.com/GEM-Libyan-Desert-Glass-Meteorite-Impactite-Tektite-NR_W0QQitemZ250523680579QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a545fff43 Here is Sikhote Alin with a cool commemorative stamp: http://cgi.ebay.com/Sikhote-Alin-Iron-Meteorite-collectible-Russian-Stamp_W0QQitemZ260502367071QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ca726ab5f Here is a nice little Henbury: http://cgi.ebay.com/Henbury-Iron-Meteorite-Australia-Complete-Individual-NR_W0QQitemZ250525967134QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a5482e31e Here is a nice little Gibeon Crystal http://cgi.ebay.com/Gibeon-Iron-Meteorite-Crystal-Complete-Individual-NR_W0QQitemZ250525967628QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a5482e50c Here is a NICE ETCHED Gibeon Egg: http://cgi.ebay.com/Gibeon-Iron-Meteorite-ETCHED-CARVED-EGG-Widmanstatten_W0QQitemZ250525971651QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a5482f4c3 Have a good day meteorite people! -Leigh Anne __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites & Competition - Rebels without a cause??
Hi there, I feel like so often today somewhat slow in mind, and would ask you for some help. I'm reading in that discussion, that here would dealers, individuals, big players or whoever, would treat collectors, newbies or whomever so bad, would prevent information, meteorites or whatever. And half of the responses is, yes, yes exactly - and the others, yes, but there are at least a few good guys left. And that action has to be taken, to improve the situation. Now I read about ominous groups and the danger that these could have an influence on restricting the access to, yah to what? And how? (And why?) And that we need new structures of..of? Please, can you give me some concrete examples? Or what you mean at all? Some beef please? Because I have difficulties to understand, what this discussion is about. All which comes to my mind is that once a newbie was unhappy, because the discoverer of a new strewnfield didn't invite him to hunt with him there. And else? Maybe that a few individuals among the scientists, who don't know, how meteorites are recovered, made the wrong laws - or what do you mean? It's meant seriously, not ironically. Thanks in advance, Martin __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Nininger & The Vatican
An eye on the sky, one on the ground By Christopher Cokinos Posted: 11/15/2009 01:00:00 AM MST http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_13776988 Meteorite expert Harvey Nininger. (Courtesy of the American Meteorite Laboratory Photo Collection, Collections Research for Museums, Denver ) The International Year of Astronomy is drawing to a close, and it's been marked by some notable passages. We've celebrated the 400th anniversary of Galileo's first view through a telescope, and we've looked back 40 years to the first Apollo moon landing. This month, another anniversary has taken place, but one quite obscure except to some dealers, collectors and researchers of meteorites. Eighty-six years ago, on Nov. 9, 1923, a then-unknown, middle-aged science professor named Harvey Nininger was walking home from work in McPherson, Kan. Suddenly, he saw a huge meteor so vivid that eyewitnesses would remember the event for years to come. The fireball would also change the course of Harvey's life and the course of science. Nininger anticipated an insight about life and death on our planet decades before it became widely accepted by researchers and then became the stuff of Hollywood blockbusters. When the meteor vanished from his view on that chilly evening, Nininger marked the sidewalk where he stood. He knew that if he received enough reports from eyewitnesses, he could triangulate their accounts and have a rough sense of where meteorites might have fallen. (Meteors are the passage of burning objects from space into our atmosphere; meteorites are the heavy, usually dark rocks that sometimes fall from them to Earth.) Nininger's idea was a radical one. No one had attempted to search for meteorites where none had been seen to fall, and a leading geologist once told Nininger that if he spent the rest of his life looking for meteorites he might find one. The geologist was wrong. Though Nininger didn't find any space rocks from that Nov. 9 fireball, in the years ahead he'd find hundreds from other falls. Nininger believed that more meteorites could be discovered from unwitnessed or forgotten falls by simply scouring the countryside. He was proven right on that count as well. After quitting his $3,000-a-year teaching job at McPherson College (during the Great Depression!), Nininger moved his family to Denver, where in 1930 he became a part-time curator of meteorites at the Colorado Museum of Natural History. The museum paid him just $600 a year, so Nininger had to rely on his obsession and his wits to make a living at buying, selling, finding, displaying, popularizing and researching meteorites. No one had done anything like it before in the study of space rocks, which was then a backwater of geology. With help from Denver truck magnate Dean Gillespie, Nininger criss-crossed the continent, from Saskatoon to Chihuahua City, discovering newly fallen meteorites and ones that had languished in ditches, corn fields, even attics. He proved that iron meteorites were not the most common ones to fall, but that they were "selected" for discovery because they look so alien and weigh so much. He recovered 1,200 pounds of a rare stony-iron meteorite from a Kansas field. When most people still thought craters on the moon had been formed by volcanoes, Nininger and a few others begged to differ, suggesting they must have formed by the impacts of meteorites. He was right once more. And 40 years before scientists would link the extinction of the dinosaurs to an asteroid's collision with the planet, Nininger suggested that cosmic impacts could lead to global mass extinctions. A tireless worker, Nininger did find time during his Denver years to be active with the Boy Scouts and take his children to concerts. They watched the colored lights of the fountain at City Park, recalls Nininger's daughter, Doris Banks. Winter car trips meant that Harvey would warm up iron meteorites at home, then wrap them in blankets to place on the floorboard, thus keeping everyone toasty. I suppose not many Denverites today remember the name Harvey Nininger, but until World War II he was one of the city's most prominent scientific citizens. He was also known nationally from profiles in publications like The Saturday Evening Post. Eventually, he moved his family to Arizona, where he opened the world's only museum of meteorites and where his pursuits continued, at times, to get him in hot water. For example, Nininger didn't have a Ph.D., but he when he was awarded an honorary doctorate he began calling himself "Dr. Nininger," at least on his letterhead. His love of meteorites became a family affair. His son-in-law, Glenn Huss, took over Nininger's "American Meteorite Laboratory" in Denver for many years. Glenn's son, Gary, has become one of the world's best-known researchers of meteorites and the solar system. Tonight, go outside and watch the sky for a meteor. Look for the Leonid meteor show
Re: [meteorite-list] Tunguska rates
Bonsoir Arnauld - When I stumbled into Clube and Napier's work and others in 1997 was when I realized that the NASA rates from asteroid population were too low. Its cometary and comet fragment impacts, and the small fragments are damned hard to find. I think Shoemaker's final paper out of Canada had better rates. The ones that I came up with were just from historical/myth-historical materials, but with archaeological confirmation - i.e. for the YD impacts there's quarry usage data. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas --- On Sun, 11/15/09, The Tricottet Collection wrote: > From: The Tricottet Collection > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Tunguska rates > To: "E.P. Grondine" , "MeteoriteList" > > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 3:01 AM > > Hi E.P. et al., > > actually, what the journalist of BI wrote is inaccurate. > You can read in our report that we used 1 per 1000 years as > our preferred value, following the most up-to-date > frequency-size distribution [Brown et al, 2002], but we also > tested 1 per 200 years [Shoemaker, 1983] and noted that the > rate could be far higher if hypotheses from geomythology and > related were to be verified. > > Best, > > ArnaudM > > > > > Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 18:20:11 -0800 > > From: epgrond...@yahoo.com > > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska rates > > > > Hi Arnauld, all, > > > > The problem is that Tunguska type blasts have been > occuring recently (for the last 5,000 years) at a rate of 1 > per 100 years, not 1 per 1,000. Whether this represents a > short term phenonmenon or the long term rate is not > currently known. > > > > I used to put together catalogues of "known and > suspected impacts", you may want to google that, and if you > have not bought a copy of "Man and Impact in the Americas" > yet, well, it is the best available recent impact rate data > for the Americas. > > > > E.P. Grondine > > Man and Impact in the Americas > > > > > > > > __ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > _ > Windows 7: I wanted simpler, now it's simpler. I'm a rock > star. > http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_myidea:112009 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] LCROSS Alien?
Hi List, LCROSS mission: Aliens are watching... Alien face in ejecta plume. http://www.meteoritesusa.com/fun/LCROSS-Alien.jpg Some Photoshop fun for ya! Enjoy... ;) Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Observations on Age of Carolina Bays: Paul H: Rich Murray 2009.11.15
Hi Rich, Paul - I think that they're looking at secondary craaters from ice chunks thrown out by original imapcts. While the Shawnee remembered multiple comet fragments hitting at the YD, my guess is that the bays may be from a different impact than the YD. There seem to be other oriented tangential impact crater fields. There were other ice ages, and other impacts. Bottom line, there's been more impacts than we ever imagined. We'll see - good luck with your research. Your white layers sound like impact "flour", but that wouldn't be from the YD. The big wait is for the USGS cores from the Carolinas, which should be most informative. Gene Shoemaker's accident was truly misfortunate, as in my opinion if he were still with us this all would have been cleared up by now. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Rich Murray wrote: > From: Rich Murray > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Observations on Age of Carolina Bays: Paul H: > Rich Murray 2009.11.15 > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Cc: astrod...@yahoogroups.com, oxytropidoce...@cox.net > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 4:12 PM > Re: [meteorite-list] Observations on > Age of Carolina Bays: Paul H: Rich Murray 2009.11.15 > http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2009_11_01_archive.htm > Sunday, November 15, 2009 > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/32 > > Hello all, > > I am very appreciative of Paul's conscientious, careful > contributions, based on civility, reason, and public > evidence. > > Will there be many confirmations of ET markers in classic > Carolina Bays? And in similar clusters in many parts > of the > world? > > Will a single place and time be found for a single or > multiple > sources, or multiple sources with multiple places and > times? > > Are data already available for mineral elements and > isotopes > at classic and possible Carolina Bay type craters? > > I find cracked, broken, overturned, and tossed > bedrocks > up to 2 m size at many craters near Santa Fe, New Mexico. > Many of these rocks have white, grey, greenish, red-brown, > and black glazes or coatings, from 0.1 to 10 cm thick, > even > curled around the edge of bedrock layers for 10 cm, > often with rough surface textures with little wind or > water > erosion. > > Also ordinary white quartz rocks up to 20 cm, glazed on > one > side with what appears as 0.2 to 3 cm melted quartz, > sometimes with a yellow tinge. > > And 3 m thick level sandstone layers, exposed roadcuts > about 30 m above the landscape, that have up to 10 cm > white > and gray mineral layers that appear to have been plastered > on > the vertical surfaces. > > I will glad to show visitors my samples, and to give tours > of > accessible sites -- many right beside public roads. > > I will be happy to search for sites with Google Earth for > free > within 80 km of any location, so they can be studied by > those > who live near the center coordinates. > > Best, Rich Murray > > exact Carolina Bay crater locations, RB Firestone, A West, > et al, > two YD reviews, 2008 June, 2009 Nov, also 3 > upcoming abstracts: Rich Murray 2009.11.14 > http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2009_11_01_archive.htm > Saturday, November 14, 2009 > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/31 > > nanodiamond evidence for 12,900 BP Clovis extinction > impact, > Santa Rosa Island, discussion on Scientific American > website, > Carolina Bay type craters east of Las Vegas, NM: > Rich Murray 2009.09.15 > http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2009_06_01_archive.htm > Friday, July 24, 2009 > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AstroDeep/28 > > widespread Carolina Bay type craters from Clovis comet > 12,900 Ya BP? -- 0.7 M long NS crater with fractured > red sandstone on SW rim, CR C 53A, 20 miles E of > Las Vegas, NM: Rich Murray 2009.06.08 > http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2009_06_01_archive.htm > Monday, June 8, 2009 > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AstroDeep/27 > _ > > > - Original Message - From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 12:46 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Observations on Age of Carolina > Bays > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing listis > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > As I will discuss in a paper that I am preparing, Carolina > Bays > are not at all difficult to date in terms of their age > relative to the > Younger Dryas as documented in a number of published, > peer- > reviewed papers and specific Cultural Resource Management > reports. There is a huge amount of information available > about > either the age or relative age of the Carolina Bays to be > found > by carefully and persistently digging through the large > number > of publications about them and the geomorphology of the > Atlantic coastal plain. > > 1. Radiocarbon dates are all minimum dates indicating > when
Re: [meteorite-list] LCROSS Alien?
looks like the Grinch with a white beard [Erik] > Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 15:41:59 -0800 > From: e...@meteoritesusa.com > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] LCROSS Alien? > > Hi List, > > LCROSS mission: Aliens are watching... > > Alien face in ejecta plume. > http://www.meteoritesusa.com/fun/LCROSS-Alien.jpg > > Some Photoshop fun for ya! > > Enjoy... ;) > > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Nininger & The Vatican
Greetings, Having read Eric's post on Nininger I thought I would remind people on the list (seasoned and newbies) that you can read more about Harvey Nininger at this link: http://www.meteorite.com/nininger/ at the meteorite.com area. Best! --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorites & Competition)
Sorry Dennis, I have no intention to "think snow". In fact I can't wait to be in nice warm sunny Tucson! And if You want to think snow, come on over, and bring a shovel! And thank you to those of you who corrected my error. Yes the title of the book is indeed "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" by O. Richard Norton. Certainly a great book by someone who left us way too soon. Have a nice evening! Anne M. Black _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) _impact...@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) In a message dated 11/15/2009 12:41:52 PM Mountain Standard Time, astror...@hotmail.com writes: Como esta? Anne and List Richard's book will always be a standard. I recently bought Caroline Smith, Sara Russell and Gretchen Benedix's new book "Meteorites". These gals "Drs" put together a great book for those with the slightest interest in meteorites. It's basic and very easy to read. Loads of great pictures too. I also like Kevin Kichinka's "The Art of Collecting Meteorites". Now, if you aren't a "Newbie" you will love McSween's "Meteorites and Their Parent Planets". I use my copy to fill up the shelf! But, what a Great Hobby, no matter what some say. Have A Great Day! Sorry Anne but, Think Snow!!! Dennis > From: impact...@aol.com > Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:45:39 -0500 > To: mina...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorites & Competition) > > Hello Mark and List, > > There is already a book that answers a lot of your questions, not all of > them, but quite a few. It is the Handbook of Meteorites by O. Richard Norton. > I certainly would recommend getting it. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Reed Family Project
I hope it is okay to post this. Below is the story of young police officer that needs our help. If you are so inclined to send a small donation I will accept them via my PayPal account at bobad...@ec.rr.com If you send a donation please put "Reed Family Project" in the subject line I tried to set up a separate account with Paypal but there is so much red tape that it would be very difficult and time consuming. I will withdraw and deposit all money received into a bank account that was set up for the this project. Mitchell Village Wachovia in Morehead City is the Bank that has the account. I will provide full financial accounting updates to this thread Thank you. Here is a copy of the email explain officer Reeds situation. The Morehead City police department, along with help from the community, is in the process of helping one of their own officers. This young officer is in desperate need of our help. In the past two years he has not only lost his father but his brother, grandmother, uncle, mother and a new born baby, which passed away in his arms. As losing those loved ones weren't enough he has yet more to deal with. This young man has a four month old son that suffers from a severe medical condition. The baby suffers from a stomach issue that prevents him from eating. He has to have special formula that is administered thru a feeding tube in the babies' nose. Even with this formula the baby weighs less then 9 lbs and must be seen by a doctor in Greenville several times a week. While attempting to deal with the passing of family members and the caring of loved ones he has had to put some things on the back burner. One of the things that have been neglected is his home. He currently lives in a small mobile home with no heat and very little room. The family has to do their cooking on a hot plate because they have no stove. His five year old son sleeps in a closet with room enough for a small bed. When the wind blows one can feel the air pass thru the walls. On top of the many problems with the living conditions, the family has no furniture. In fact to put it bluntly the family has nothing. This is where the police department is trying to help. We have found a newer trailer, which still needs a small amount of work but is more suitable for the families needs. But like anything else there are still hurdles that must be cleared. The biggest of these is money. This is why we are calling on Gods community to help us meet this need along with the families needs. We are accepting donations of both monetary and prayer in this effort. We understand times are tough for everyone but if God lays it on your heart please help us in this mission. Larry Stoneroad 252 241-3818 lstoner...@embarqmail.com Nick Stoneroad 252 241-5788 Thank You and God Bless Larry Stoneroad __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] exact Carolina Bay crater locations, RB Firestone, A West, et al, two YD reviews, 2008 June, 2009 Nov, also 3 upcoming abstracts: Rich Murray 2009.11.14
Hi Rich - Perhaps they should be looking for multiple Kitscoty type impact structures. I.l. - 3 to 4 miles of ice blown off, land rises in perfectly circular pattern. Another possibility for the KREEP is actually primary impact with the Moon and secondary impacts from ejecta. When I get my computer up I'll send you a jpg of the cast of the Trempealeau Petroglyph. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Rich Murray wrote: > From: Rich Murray > Subject: exact Carolina Bay crater locations, RB Firestone, A West, et al, > two YD reviews, 2008 June, 2009 Nov, also 3 upcoming abstracts: Rich Murray > 2009.11.14 > To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Cc: "Rich Murray" , richmurray.rmfor...@gmail.com > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:39 AM > exact Carolina Bay crater locations, > RB Firestone, A West, et al, two YD > reviews, 2008 June, 2009 Nov, also 3 upcoming abstracts: > Rich Murray > 2009.11.14 > http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2009_11_01_archive.htm > Saturday, November 14, 2009 > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/31 > ___ > > > http://ie.lbl.gov/mammoth/mammoth.html > Firestone paper links > > http://ie.lbl.gov/mammoth/TunguskaConferenceA4_Firestone.pdf > 37 pages > Firestone, R.B.; West, A.; Revay Zs.; Hagstrum J.T.; Belgya > T.; > Que Hee S.S.; and Smith, A.R. (2008) > Analysis of the Younger Dryas Impact Layer, > 100 years since Tunguska phenomenon: past, present, and > future, > June 26-28, Moscow, in press. 54 references > > R.B. Firestone 1, > A. West 2, > Zs. Revay 3, > J. T. Hagstrum 4, > T. Belgya 3, > S.S. Que Hee 5, > and A.R. Smith 1 > 1 Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, Berkeley, Ca > 94720, > [ #43 Henderson, G.M.; Hall, B.L.; Smith, A.; & > Robinson, L.F. > (2006) Chem. Geol. 226, 298-308 ] > 2 GeoScience Consulting, Box 1636, Dewey, Arizona 86327, > 3 Institute for Isotope and Surface Chemistry, > P.O. Box 77, H-1525 Budapest, Hungary, > 4 U.S. Geological Survey, 345 Middlefield Road MS 937, > Menlo Park, CA 94025, > 5 University of California, Los Angeles, ICP-MS Facility, > Los Angeles, CA 90095 > > Abstract > > We have uncovered a thin layer of magnetic grains and > microspherules, carbon spherules, and glass-like carbon at > nine sites across North America, a site in Belgium, and > throughout the rims of 16 Carolina Bays. > It is consistent with the ejecta layer from an impact event > and > has been dated to 12.9 ka BP coinciding with the onset of > Younger Dryas (YD) cooling and widespread megafaunal > extinctions in North America. > At many locations the impact layer is directly below a > black mat > marking the sudden disappearance of the megafauna and > Clovis > people. > The distribution pattern of the Younger Dryas boundary > (YDB) > ejecta layer is consistent with an impact near the Great > Lakes > that deposited terrestrial-like ejecta near the impact site > and > unusual, titanium-rich projectile-like ejecta further > away. > High water content associated with the ejecta, up to 28 > at.% > hydrogen (H), suggests the impact occurred over the > Laurentide > Ice Sheet. > YDB microspherules and magnetic grains are highly enriched > in > TiO2. > Magnetic grains from several sites are enriched in iridium > (Ir), up > to 117 ppb. > The TiO2/FeO, K/Th, TiO2/Zr, Al2O3/FeO+MgO, CaO/Al2O3, > REE/chondrite, FeO/MnO ratios and SiO2, Na2O, K2O, Cr2O3, > Ni, Co, U, Th and other trace element abundances are > inconsistent > with all terrestrial and extraterrestrial (ET) sources > except for > KREEP, a lunar igneous rock rich in potassium (K), > rare-earth > elements (REE), phosphorus (P), and other incompatible > elements > including U and Th. > Normal Fe, Ti, and 238U/235U isotopic abundances were > found > in the magnetic grains, but 234U was enriched over > equilibrium > values by 50% in Murray Springs and by 130% in Belgium. > 40K abundance is enriched by up to 100% in YDB sediments > and > Clovis chert artifacts. > Highly vesicular carbon spherules containing nanodiamonds, > glass-like carbon, charcoal and soot found in large > quantities in > the YDB layer are consistent with an impact followed by > intense > burning. > Four holes in the Great Lakes, some deeper than Death > Valley, > are proposed as possible craters produced by the airburst > breakup of a loosely aggregated projectile. > > from Table 2: > > CLOVIS SITES: > Blackwater Draw, NM- 34.27564N 103.32633W > Chobot, AB, CAN- 52.99521N 114.71773W > Gainey, MI- 42.93978N,, 83.72111W > Murray Springs, AZ 31.57103N 110.17814W > Wally's Beach, AB- 49.34183N 113.15440W > Topper, SC -- T-1- 33.00554N,, 81.49001W > Topper, SC -- T-2- 33.00545N,, 81.49056W > > CLOVIS-AGE SITES: > Daisy Cave, CA--- 34.04207N 120.32009W > Lake Hind, MB, CAN- 49.43970N 100.69783W > Lommel, BELGIUM--- 51.23580N, 5.26403E > Morley drumlin, AB 51.14853N,
Re: [meteorite-list] Nininger & The Vatican
Who's Nininger? On Nov 15, 2009, at 3:52 PM, Meteorites USA wrote: An eye on the sky, one on the ground By Christopher Cokinos Posted: 11/15/2009 01:00:00 AM MST http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_13776988 Meteorite expert Harvey Nininger. (Courtesy of the American Meteorite Laboratory Photo Collection, Collections Research for Museums, Denver ) The International Year of Astronomy is drawing to a close, and it's been marked by some notable passages. We've celebrated the 400th anniversary of Galileo's first view through a telescope, and we've looked back 40 years to the first Apollo moon landing. This month, another anniversary has taken place, but one quite obscure except to some dealers, collectors and researchers of meteorites. Eighty-six years ago, on Nov. 9, 1923, a then-unknown, middle-aged science professor named Harvey Nininger was walking home from work in McPherson, Kan. Suddenly, he saw a huge meteor so vivid that eyewitnesses would remember the event for years to come. The fireball would also change the course of Harvey's life and the course of science. Nininger anticipated an insight about life and death on our planet decades before it became widely accepted by researchers and then became the stuff of Hollywood blockbusters. When the meteor vanished from his view on that chilly evening, Nininger marked the sidewalk where he stood. He knew that if he received enough reports from eyewitnesses, he could triangulate their accounts and have a rough sense of where meteorites might have fallen. (Meteors are the passage of burning objects from space into our atmosphere; meteorites are the heavy, usually dark rocks that sometimes fall from them to Earth.) Nininger's idea was a radical one. No one had attempted to search for meteorites where none had been seen to fall, and a leading geologist once told Nininger that if he spent the rest of his life looking for meteorites he might find one. The geologist was wrong. Though Nininger didn't find any space rocks from that Nov. 9 fireball, in the years ahead he'd find hundreds from other falls. Nininger believed that more meteorites could be discovered from unwitnessed or forgotten falls by simply scouring the countryside. He was proven right on that count as well. After quitting his $3,000-a-year teaching job at McPherson College (during the Great Depression!), Nininger moved his family to Denver, where in 1930 he became a part-time curator of meteorites at the Colorado Museum of Natural History. The museum paid him just $600 a year, so Nininger had to rely on his obsession and his wits to make a living at buying, selling, finding, displaying, popularizing and researching meteorites. No one had done anything like it before in the study of space rocks, which was then a backwater of geology. With help from Denver truck magnate Dean Gillespie, Nininger criss- crossed the continent, from Saskatoon to Chihuahua City, discovering newly fallen meteorites and ones that had languished in ditches, corn fields, even attics. He proved that iron meteorites were not the most common ones to fall, but that they were "selected" for discovery because they look so alien and weigh so much. He recovered 1,200 pounds of a rare stony-iron meteorite from a Kansas field. When most people still thought craters on the moon had been formed by volcanoes, Nininger and a few others begged to differ, suggesting they must have formed by the impacts of meteorites. He was right once more. And 40 years before scientists would link the extinction of the dinosaurs to an asteroid's collision with the planet, Nininger suggested that cosmic impacts could lead to global mass extinctions. A tireless worker, Nininger did find time during his Denver years to be active with the Boy Scouts and take his children to concerts. They watched the colored lights of the fountain at City Park, recalls Nininger's daughter, Doris Banks. Winter car trips meant that Harvey would warm up iron meteorites at home, then wrap them in blankets to place on the floorboard, thus keeping everyone toasty. I suppose not many Denverites today remember the name Harvey Nininger, but until World War II he was one of the city's most prominent scientific citizens. He was also known nationally from profiles in publications like The Saturday Evening Post. Eventually, he moved his family to Arizona, where he opened the world's only museum of meteorites and where his pursuits continued, at times, to get him in hot water. For example, Nininger didn't have a Ph.D., but he when he was awarded an honorary doctorate he began calling himself "Dr. Nininger," at least on his letterhead. His love of meteorites became a family affair. His son-in-law, Glenn Huss, took over Nininger's "American Meteorite Laboratory" in Denver for many years. Glenn's son, Gary, has become one of the world's best-known
[meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: November 9-13, 2009
MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES November 9-13, 2009 o Windstreaks (09 November 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091109a o Arkhangelsky Crater (10 November 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091110a o Russell Crater Dunes (11 November 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-2009a o Russell Crater Dunes (12 November 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091112a o Kaiser Crater Dunes (13 November 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091113a All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorites & Competition)
Hi Anne and all, I haven't seen that title. Do you mean "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites"? What I have in mind is a book similar to "The Complete Metalsmith". I haven't seen a book of similar style covering meteorite prep & preservation. Maybe a lot of that material is spread throughout the internet, but so is the stuff covering metalsmithing. I think it would be nice to have it in one handbook. Best regards, Mark --- On Sun, 11/15/09, impact...@aol.com wrote: > From: impact...@aol.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorites & > Competition) > To: mina...@yahoo.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 11:45 AM > Hello Mark and List, > > There is already a book that answers a lot of your > questions, not all of > them, but quite a few. It is the Handbook of Meteorites by > O. Richard Norton. > I certainly would recommend getting it. > > Also I would like to add one thing to the discussion about > helping new > meteorite enthusiasts; It is not because you did not see a > response on the List > that no help of response was sent. It is often a whole lot > better to email > that person privately to ask for additional details to > narrow down the > problem, or simply to protect that person from some public > embarassement. I know I > probably write 50 private emails for every one posted here. > > > And then we are not all always glued to our computer > (believe it or not!!), > personally I have a book (about meteorites of course) to > translate as > quickly as possible so it will be available in Tucson. > > And Norbert Classen and I have the dubious honor of having > to answer every > question that comes in on the IMCA questions email address. > Also time > consuming. > > And right now I have a whole lot of snow to shovel!!! > Have a nice day. > > Anne M. Black > _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) > _impact...@aol.com_ > (mailto:impact...@aol.com) > > Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. > _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) > > > > In a message dated 11/15/2009 8:30:51 AM Mountain Standard > Time, > mina...@yahoo.com > writes: > Dear List, > > I think Adam has some great points. I think people > forget how rare these > things are. Prices often don't reflect that. > > I think people are more likely to give advice when a > "newbie" asks > something like, I've ruined several slices trying to do > such & such, I've tried A > and B, what else should I do. it shows that they're > paying their dues, but > need a little advice which they can probably absorb > quickly, saving an > "expert's" time. The sad thing is that a few > slices/specimens have been ruined > (maybe from "cheap, common NWA" material, but very rare, > finite material > nonetheless). > > How do you balance the protection of trade secrets and your > business vs. > the ideal of preserving this wonderful material? I > suppose there are > techniques which are common in parallel fields like > lapidary, which one can assume > they'll figure it out the hard way (both hard on their > time/wallet but also > hard on meteorites). I would say one should be > somewhat eager to help in > that case, since keeping quiet won't deter them but only > make possible the > damage of more specimens. However, offering help > takes precious time, busy > people lack. > > What about the possibility of a guidebook highlighting some > of these > "common" things? The first person(s) with the ability > to write said tome could > profit from the book sales, and many novices would benefit > from the tips. > Sensitive trade secrets could be mentioned by name and the > disclaimer given > that you will have to experiment at the peril of your > collection and finances - > or maybe find a willing mentor. > > The book would have to be relatively comprehensive - > covering the common > things which can be found in a lapidary book, but from a > meteorite point of > view (there might be possibility of tips like "it's wise to > practice this > technique using sandstone(?) because it approximates > XYZ meteorites very well, > and you can rest assured that your learning curve isn't > busting the bank"). > And it would also cover the meteorites specific topics like > chemicals/oils > to avoid, etc. Maybe some explanations of the > different textures you will > encounter in meteorites. Maybe a section on thin > sections, epoxy plugs, and ? > > There might be room for general things like an explanation > meteorite > classifications, collecting strategies, strategies for > documenting a collection of > specimens, a list of common vendors, etc. There are > lots of interesting, > useful things that could be added that I can't > imagine. Of course, you would > have to have environmental, health and safety concerns > highlighted and > repeated throughout the book! > > I know this may sound a little out in left
[meteorite-list] 49 Gram Ghubara Slice
I have a nice slice of Ghubara available It is 42mm x 110mm x 5mm and weighs 49 grams I am asking $49 plus shipping If you are interested please contact me off list at bobadebt at ec.rr.com Thanks Here are some images of it http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Ghubara/49grSlice1.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Ghubara/49grSlice2.jpg __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Two Days Hunting for Meteorites - Learning is free!
Hi all, I just spent two days in the desert - in a neighboring state - hoping to find another rare achondrite. An elusive U.S. Lunar or Martian meteorite is always on my mind. Unfortunately, this time I came back with a handful of ordinary chondrites. Nothing rare but still had a good time! Here are the pictures of the six stones I found. Strangely, the first two seem to be the same type and the last four -weathered chondrites - are different. http://www.mr-meteorite.net/twodaysworth.htm P.S. Learning is encouraged and FREE at my website and videos! -- Rock On! Ruben Garcia Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: Meteorites For Sale
Hi All, I've added some nice etched and polished meteorite slices to the site. http://www.meteoritesusa.com/meteorites-for-sale.htm Brenham Pallasite Muonionalusta Canyon Diablo Nantan First come first served. Sorry, no holds. Will ship tomorrow. Free shipping inside USA on orders over $50. Enjoy... Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA www.meteoritesusa.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorites & Competition)
Hi Dennis and List, I would like to check out that new book (published by the "gals"?). I'm sure I'll get the chance at this years show. The other books I am familiar with (except maybe the one Anne mentioned). But none of these focus on the lapidary side of meteorites, the practical steps involved. I hope I wasn't clear about that when I mentioned possible "filler" material for the book (like cataloging, classifications, etc.). Such material is probably not appropriate for an illustrated guidebook for cutting, polishing, protecting (etc., etc.) the various types of meteorites. But I was just trying to throw out additional ideas. Best regards, Mark --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Dennis Miller wrote: > From: Dennis Miller > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorites & > Competition) > To: impact...@aol.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:40 PM > > Como esta? Anne and List Richard's book > will always be a standard. > I recently bought Caroline Smith, Sara Russell and Gretchen > Benedix's > new book "Meteorites". These gals "Drs" put together a > great book for > those with the slightest interest in meteorites. It's basic > and > very easy to read. Loads of great pictures too. I also like > Kevin Kichinka's > "The Art of Collecting Meteorites". Now, if you > aren't a "Newbie" you > will love McSween's "Meteorites and Their Parent Planets". > I use my copy > to fill up the shelf! But, what a Great Hobby, no matter > what some say. > Have A Great Day! Sorry Anne but, Think > Snow!!! > Dennis > > > > > From: impact...@aol.com > > Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:45:39 -0500 > > To: mina...@yahoo.com; > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was > Meteorites & Competition) > > > > Hello Mark and List, > > > > There is already a book that answers a lot of your > questions, not all of > > them, but quite a few. It is the Handbook of > Meteorites by O. Richard Norton. > > I certainly would recommend getting it. > > > > Also I would like to add one thing to the discussion > about helping new > > meteorite enthusiasts; It is not because you did not > see a response on the List > > that no help of response was sent. It is often a whole > lot better to email > > that person privately to ask for additional details to > narrow down the > > problem, or simply to protect that person from some > public embarassement. I know I > > probably write 50 private emails for every one posted > here. > > > > And then we are not all always glued to our computer > (believe it or not!!), > > personally I have a book (about meteorites of course) > to translate as > > quickly as possible so it will be available in > Tucson. > > > > And Norbert Classen and I have the dubious honor of > having to answer every > > question that comes in on the IMCA questions email > address. Also time > > consuming. > > > > And right now I have a whole lot of snow to shovel!!! > > Have a nice day. > > > > Anne M. Black > > _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) > > _impact...@aol.com_ > (mailto:impact...@aol.com) > > Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. > > _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) > > > > > > > > In a message dated 11/15/2009 8:30:51 AM Mountain > Standard Time, > > mina...@yahoo.com > writes: > > Dear List, > > > > I think Adam has some great points. I think people > forget how rare these > > things are. Prices often don't reflect that. > > > > I think people are more likely to give advice when a > "newbie" asks > > something like, I've ruined several slices trying to > do such & such, I've tried A > > and B, what else should I do. it shows that they're > paying their dues, but > > need a little advice which they can probably absorb > quickly, saving an > > "expert's" time. The sad thing is that a few > slices/specimens have been ruined > > (maybe from "cheap, common NWA" material, but very > rare, finite material > > nonetheless). > > > > How do you balance the protection of trade secrets and > your business vs. > > the ideal of preserving this wonderful material? I > suppose there are > > techniques which are common in parallel fields like > lapidary, which one can assume > > they'll figure it out the hard way (both hard on their > time/wallet but also > > hard on meteorites). I would say one should be > somewhat eager to help in > > that case, since keeping quiet won't deter them but > only make possible the > > damage of more specimens. However, offering help takes > precious time, busy > > people lack. > > > > What about the possibility of a guidebook highlighting > some of these > > "common" things? The first person(s) with the ability > to write said tome could > > profit from the book sales, and many novices would > benefit from the tips. > > Sensitive trade secrets could be mentioned by name and > the disclaimer given > > that you will have to experime
Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorites & Competition)
Hi Mark and List, Such a book sounds like a great idea. A bunch of that info is located in the online Meteorite Times archives. There are several old articles by Jim Tobin that cover some of these lapidary type topics. But having all of those, and more like them, in one book would be nice. Best regards, MikeG On 11/15/09, Mark Bowling wrote: > Hi Dennis and List, > > I would like to check out that new book (published by the "gals"?). I'm > sure I'll get the chance at this years show. > > The other books I am familiar with (except maybe the one Anne mentioned). > But none of these focus on the lapidary side of meteorites, the practical > steps involved. > > I hope I wasn't clear about that when I mentioned possible "filler" material > for the book (like cataloging, classifications, etc.). Such material is > probably not appropriate for an illustrated guidebook for cutting, > polishing, protecting (etc., etc.) the various types of meteorites. But I > was just trying to throw out additional ideas. > > Best regards, > Mark > > --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Dennis Miller wrote: > >> From: Dennis Miller >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorites & >> Competition) >> To: impact...@aol.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:40 PM >> >> Como esta? Anne and List Richard's book >> will always be a standard. >> I recently bought Caroline Smith, Sara Russell and Gretchen >> Benedix's >> new book "Meteorites". These gals "Drs" put together a >> great book for >> those with the slightest interest in meteorites. It's basic >> and >> very easy to read. Loads of great pictures too. I also like >> Kevin Kichinka's >> "The Art of Collecting Meteorites". Now, if you >> aren't a "Newbie" you >> will love McSween's "Meteorites and Their Parent Planets". >> I use my copy >> to fill up the shelf! But, what a Great Hobby, no matter >> what some say. >> Have A Great Day! Sorry Anne but, Think >> Snow!!! >> Dennis >> >> >> >> > From: impact...@aol.com >> > Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:45:39 -0500 >> > To: mina...@yahoo.com; >> meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was >> Meteorites & Competition) >> > >> > Hello Mark and List, >> > >> > There is already a book that answers a lot of your >> questions, not all of >> > them, but quite a few. It is the Handbook of >> Meteorites by O. Richard Norton. >> > I certainly would recommend getting it. >> > >> > Also I would like to add one thing to the discussion >> about helping new >> > meteorite enthusiasts; It is not because you did not >> see a response on the List >> > that no help of response was sent. It is often a whole >> lot better to email >> > that person privately to ask for additional details to >> narrow down the >> > problem, or simply to protect that person from some >> public embarassement. I know I >> > probably write 50 private emails for every one posted >> here. >> > >> > And then we are not all always glued to our computer >> (believe it or not!!), >> > personally I have a book (about meteorites of course) >> to translate as >> > quickly as possible so it will be available in >> Tucson. >> > >> > And Norbert Classen and I have the dubious honor of >> having to answer every >> > question that comes in on the IMCA questions email >> address. Also time >> > consuming. >> > >> > And right now I have a whole lot of snow to shovel!!! >> > Have a nice day. >> > >> > Anne M. Black >> > _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) >> > _impact...@aol.com_ >> (mailto:impact...@aol.com) >> > Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. >> > _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) >> > >> > >> > >> > In a message dated 11/15/2009 8:30:51 AM Mountain >> Standard Time, >> > mina...@yahoo.com >> writes: >> > Dear List, >> > >> > I think Adam has some great points. I think people >> forget how rare these >> > things are. Prices often don't reflect that. >> > >> > I think people are more likely to give advice when a >> "newbie" asks >> > something like, I've ruined several slices trying to >> do such & such, I've tried A >> > and B, what else should I do. it shows that they're >> paying their dues, but >> > need a little advice which they can probably absorb >> quickly, saving an >> > "expert's" time. The sad thing is that a few >> slices/specimens have been ruined >> > (maybe from "cheap, common NWA" material, but very >> rare, finite material >> > nonetheless). >> > >> > How do you balance the protection of trade secrets and >> your business vs. >> > the ideal of preserving this wonderful material? I >> suppose there are >> > techniques which are common in parallel fields like >> lapidary, which one can assume >> > they'll figure it out the hard way (both hard on their >> time/wallet but also >> > hard on meteorites). I would say one should be >> somewhat eager to help in >> > that case, since keeping quiet won't deter the
Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorites & Competition)
All this talk about a guide to meteorites for newbies makes it sound like the perfect venue would be the Meteorite Wiki. www.meteoritewiki.com Seems pretty simple to me. Everyone that would like to know anything about meteorites could learn it there. A book, is so, well... Old school... ;) (just kidding) Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA P.S. I know I'll probably get some brash emails on that one... ;) Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: Hi Mark and List, Such a book sounds like a great idea. A bunch of that info is located in the online Meteorite Times archives. There are several old articles by Jim Tobin that cover some of these lapidary type topics. But having all of those, and more like them, in one book would be nice. Best regards, MikeG On 11/15/09, Mark Bowling wrote: Hi Dennis and List, I would like to check out that new book (published by the "gals"?). I'm sure I'll get the chance at this years show. The other books I am familiar with (except maybe the one Anne mentioned). But none of these focus on the lapidary side of meteorites, the practical steps involved. I hope I wasn't clear about that when I mentioned possible "filler" material for the book (like cataloging, classifications, etc.). Such material is probably not appropriate for an illustrated guidebook for cutting, polishing, protecting (etc., etc.) the various types of meteorites. But I was just trying to throw out additional ideas. Best regards, Mark --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Dennis Miller wrote: From: Dennis Miller Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorites & Competition) To: impact...@aol.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:40 PM Como esta? Anne and List Richard's book will always be a standard. I recently bought Caroline Smith, Sara Russell and Gretchen Benedix's new book "Meteorites". These gals "Drs" put together a great book for those with the slightest interest in meteorites. It's basic and very easy to read. Loads of great pictures too. I also like Kevin Kichinka's "The Art of Collecting Meteorites". Now, if you aren't a "Newbie" you will love McSween's "Meteorites and Their Parent Planets". I use my copy to fill up the shelf! But, what a Great Hobby, no matter what some say. Have A Great Day! Sorry Anne but, Think Snow!!! Dennis From: impact...@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:45:39 -0500 To: mina...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorites & Competition) Hello Mark and List, There is already a book that answers a lot of your questions, not all of them, but quite a few. It is the Handbook of Meteorites by O. Richard Norton. I certainly would recommend getting it. Also I would like to add one thing to the discussion about helping new meteorite enthusiasts; It is not because you did not see a response on the List that no help of response was sent. It is often a whole lot better to email that person privately to ask for additional details to narrow down the problem, or simply to protect that person from some public embarassement. I know I probably write 50 private emails for every one posted here. And then we are not all always glued to our computer (believe it or not!!), personally I have a book (about meteorites of course) to translate as quickly as possible so it will be available in Tucson. And Norbert Classen and I have the dubious honor of having to answer every question that comes in on the IMCA questions email address. Also time consuming. And right now I have a whole lot of snow to shovel!!! Have a nice day. Anne M. Black _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) _impact...@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) In a message dated 11/15/2009 8:30:51 AM Mountain Standard Time, mina...@yahoo.com writes: Dear List, I think Adam has some great points. I think people forget how rare these things are. Prices often don't reflect that. I think people are more likely to give advice when a "newbie" asks something like, I've ruined several slices trying to do such & such, I've tried A and B, what else should I do. it shows that they're paying their dues, but need a little advice which they can probably absorb quickly, saving an "expert's" time. The sad thing is that a few slices/specimens have been ruined (maybe from "cheap, common NWA" material, but very rare, finite material
Re: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: November 9-13, 2009
Amazing pics! I can imagine all the meteorites on the surfice of Mars (and our Moon)!! *drools* --- Melanie IMCA: 2975 eBay: metmel2775 Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09 Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you never know what you're gonna get! > From: baa...@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:05:38 -0800 > Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: November 9-13, 2009 > > > MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES > November 9-13, 2009 > > o Windstreaks (09 November 2009) > http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091109a > > o Arkhangelsky Crater (10 November 2009) > http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091110a > > o Russell Crater Dunes (11 November 2009) > http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-2009a > > o Russell Crater Dunes (12 November 2009) > http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091112a > > o Kaiser Crater Dunes (13 November 2009) > http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20091113a > > > All of the THEMIS images are archived here: > > http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html > > NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission > for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission > Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, > Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. > The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State > University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor > for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission > operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a > division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. > > > > __ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Windows Live: Friends get your Flickr, Yelp, and Digg updates when they e-mail you. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691817 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Well, maybe we should compile a list of already existing books, which are a good read for newbies and oldbies first, before we write a new one? (uuuh such a comprehensive "handbook" of meteorites&collecting&peparation, Mark suggested, I fear, will be in the end such a thick volume, that most newbies wouldn't be able to afford it) Martin PS: Still wondering which "groups" and which horrible incidents you & other were alluding to.. I mean, it's somewhat difficult to discuss a problem, if we don't know, whether such a problem does exist at all... -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Meteorites USA Gesendet: Montag, 16. November 2009 04:05 An: Galactic Stone & Ironworks Cc: Mark Bowling; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorites &Competition) All this talk about a guide to meteorites for newbies makes it sound like the perfect venue would be the Meteorite Wiki. www.meteoritewiki.com Seems pretty simple to me. Everyone that would like to know anything about meteorites could learn it there. A book, is so, well... Old school... ;) (just kidding) Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA P.S. I know I'll probably get some brash emails on that one... ;) Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > Hi Mark and List, > > Such a book sounds like a great idea. A bunch of that info is located > in the online Meteorite Times archives. There are several old > articles by Jim Tobin that cover some of these lapidary type topics. > > But having all of those, and more like them, in one book would be nice. > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > On 11/15/09, Mark Bowling wrote: > >> Hi Dennis and List, >> >> I would like to check out that new book (published by the "gals"?). I'm >> sure I'll get the chance at this years show. >> >> The other books I am familiar with (except maybe the one Anne mentioned). >> But none of these focus on the lapidary side of meteorites, the practical >> steps involved. >> >> I hope I wasn't clear about that when I mentioned possible "filler" material >> for the book (like cataloging, classifications, etc.). Such material is >> probably not appropriate for an illustrated guidebook for cutting, >> polishing, protecting (etc., etc.) the various types of meteorites. But I >> was just trying to throw out additional ideas. >> >> Best regards, >> Mark >> >> --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Dennis Miller wrote: >> >> >>> From: Dennis Miller >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorites & >>> Competition) >>> To: impact...@aol.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:40 PM >>> >>> Como esta? Anne and List Richard's book >>> will always be a standard. >>> I recently bought Caroline Smith, Sara Russell and Gretchen >>> Benedix's >>> new book "Meteorites". These gals "Drs" put together a >>> great book for >>> those with the slightest interest in meteorites. It's basic >>> and >>> very easy to read. Loads of great pictures too. I also like >>> Kevin Kichinka's >>> "The Art of Collecting Meteorites". Now, if you >>> aren't a "Newbie" you >>> will love McSween's "Meteorites and Their Parent Planets". >>> I use my copy >>> to fill up the shelf! But, what a Great Hobby, no matter >>> what some say. >>> Have A Great Day! Sorry Anne but, Think >>> Snow!!! >>> Dennis >>> >>> >>> >>> From: impact...@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:45:39 -0500 To: mina...@yahoo.com; >>> meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was >>> Meteorites & Competition) >>> Hello Mark and List, There is already a book that answers a lot of your >>> questions, not all of >>> them, but quite a few. It is the Handbook of >>> Meteorites by O. Richard Norton. >>> I certainly would recommend getting it. Also I would like to add one thing to the discussion >>> about helping new >>> meteorite enthusiasts; It is not because you did not >>> see a response on the List >>> that no help of response was sent. It is often a whole >>> lot better to email >>> that person privately to ask for additional details to >>> narrow down the >>> problem, or simply to protect that person from some >>> public embarassement. I know I >>> probably write 50 private emails for every one posted >>> here. >>> And then we are not all always glued to our computer >>> (believe it or not!!), >>> personally I have a book (about meteorites of course) >>> to translate as >>> quickly as possible
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Greetings, Probably the closet book for someonen starting out is the Meteorite & Tektite Collectors Handbook by Bagnall. It is probably outdated now and hard to find a copy but just needs a second addtion. Why reinvent the wheel and have a thousand sites when you have good resources all ready available? --AL - Original Message - From: "Meteorites USA" To: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" Cc: "Mark Bowling" ; Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 10:04 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorites &Competition) All this talk about a guide to meteorites for newbies makes it sound like the perfect venue would be the Meteorite Wiki. www.meteoritewiki.com Seems pretty simple to me. Everyone that would like to know anything about meteorites could learn it there. A book, is so, well... Old school... ;) (just kidding) Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA P.S. I know I'll probably get some brash emails on that one... ;) Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: Hi Mark and List, Such a book sounds like a great idea. A bunch of that info is located in the online Meteorite Times archives. There are several old articles by Jim Tobin that cover some of these lapidary type topics. But having all of those, and more like them, in one book would be nice. Best regards, MikeG On 11/15/09, Mark Bowling wrote: Hi Dennis and List, I would like to check out that new book (published by the "gals"?). I'm sure I'll get the chance at this years show. The other books I am familiar with (except maybe the one Anne mentioned). But none of these focus on the lapidary side of meteorites, the practical steps involved. I hope I wasn't clear about that when I mentioned possible "filler" material for the book (like cataloging, classifications, etc.). Such material is probably not appropriate for an illustrated guidebook for cutting, polishing, protecting (etc., etc.) the various types of meteorites. But I was just trying to throw out additional ideas. Best regards, Mark --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Dennis Miller wrote: From: Dennis Miller Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorites & Competition) To: impact...@aol.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 12:40 PM Como esta? Anne and List Richard's book will always be a standard. I recently bought Caroline Smith, Sara Russell and Gretchen Benedix's new book "Meteorites". These gals "Drs" put together a great book for those with the slightest interest in meteorites. It's basic and very easy to read. Loads of great pictures too. I also like Kevin Kichinka's "The Art of Collecting Meteorites". Now, if you aren't a "Newbie" you will love McSween's "Meteorites and Their Parent Planets". I use my copy to fill up the shelf! But, what a Great Hobby, no matter what some say. Have A Great Day! Sorry Anne but, Think Snow!!! Dennis From: impact...@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:45:39 -0500 To: mina...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorites & Competition) Hello Mark and List, There is already a book that answers a lot of your questions, not all of them, but quite a few. It is the Handbook of Meteorites by O. Richard Norton. I certainly would recommend getting it. Also I would like to add one thing to the discussion about helping new meteorite enthusiasts; It is not because you did not see a response on the List that no help of response was sent. It is often a whole lot better to email that person privately to ask for additional details to narrow down the problem, or simply to protect that person from some public embarassement. I know I probably write 50 private emails for every one posted here. And then we are not all always glued to our computer (believe it or not!!), personally I have a book (about meteorites of course) to translate as quickly as possible so it will be available in Tucson. And Norbert Classen and I have the dubious honor of having to answer every question that comes in on the IMCA questions email address. Also time consuming. And right now I have a whole lot of snow to shovel!!! Have a nice day. Anne M. Black _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) _impact...@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) In a message dated 11/15/2009 8:30:51 AM Mountain Standard Time, mina...@yahoo.com writes: Dear List, I think Adam has some great points. I think people forget how rare these things are. Prices often don't reflect that. I think people are more likely to give advice when a "newbie" asks something like, I've ruined several slices trying to do such & such, I've tried A and B, what else should I do. it shows that they're paying their dues, but need a little advice which they can
Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (was Meteorites & Competition)
Aloha Dennis, Anne, listees, Here are some titles of books on meteorites that I have in my library, use in public outreach, or for informal science education in schools. Some of them are well known, while others more obscure, but all most informative and worth the time to read. Some of them are listed here in no particular order: Cambridge Encyclopedia of Meteorites, O Richard Norton, 2002, Cambridge Press, 354 pg Good information that is well organized by the master Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites, O Richard Norton, 2008 Springer, 288 pg Great reference from classifications to hunting to handlens/microscope viewing Rocks From Space, O Richard Norton, 1994, 1998 Mountain Press Pub, 444 pg One of my favorite books, one to which I often return Meteorites, Hutchison & Graham, 1993 Sterling Publishing, NY, 60 pg Good pictures and information, I donate copies to science classes I visit Falling Stars, Mike Reynolds, 2001 Stackpole Books, PA, 148 pg Like the subtitle says, its a Guide to Meteors and Meteorites Meteorites - Their Impact on Science and History, edited by Zanda & Rotaru, 1996 Cambridge University Press, 128 pg Great color pictures, very informative Meteorites, Alain Carion, self-published, 36 pg Short B/W printing with nice photos and good information Thunderstones and Shooting Stars, Robert T Dodd, 1986, Harvard Press, 196 pg Good pictures and information, some dated or obsolete Santa Lucia Meteorite Fall, McCartney Taylor, 2009 self published 62 pg Great story of meteorite hunting in Argentina Find a Falling Star, Harvey Nininger, 1972, Erikson, 254 pg Autobiography of Americaʻs first meteorite hunter Meteorites from A to Z, Jenson, Jenson, Black, 2004 self published, 276 pg Great reference for falls and finds The Handbook of Colorado Meteorites, Matt Morgan, 2000 CO Geo Survey, 40 pg Compilation & pictures of the meteorites of Colorado Meteorites and Their Parent Planets, Harry McSween, 1999 Cambridge Press, 312 pg Good book on meteorites and where they come from The Meteorite & Tektite Collectors Handbook, Philip Bagnall, 1991 WIllman-Bell, 160 pg Somewhat dated, but good source of information Tektites - A Cosmic Enigma, Hal Provenmire, 2003 self published, 210 pg Comprehensive book on the different tektites, strewnfields and theories of origin Meteorites and the Origin of Planets, John Wood, 1968 McGraw-Hill, 118 pg A lot of valid information in this dated book Tucson Meteorites, Richard Willey, 1987 Smithsonian Press, 46 pg A history of the Tucson Ring meteorite The Port Orford, Oregon Meteorite Mystery, Roy S Clarke, 1993 Smithsonian Press, 42 pg Great story of an even greater hoax The Fallen Sky, Christopher Cokinos, 2009 Penguin Books, 518 pg Story weaves history, science and the authorʻs life in an engaging manner Meteorites - A Journey Through Time and Space, Bevan & DeLaeter, 2002, Univ So Wales Press, 216 pg Beautiful book, good information in an easy to read format Meteorites - Their Structure, Composition and Terrestrial Relations, Oliver Cummings Farrington, 1915 self published, 226 pg Obviously dated, but a good read of period meteoritics Meteorite Craters, Kathleen Mark, 1987, UA Press, 288 pg Good book on impact craters around the world Meteorite Hunter, Roy Gallant, 2002 McGraw-Hill, 232 pg Stories of Tunguska, Sikhote Alin, Chinga, Pallas, Tsarev and more The Mystery of the Tunguska Fireball, Surendra Verma, 2005 Icon Books, 278 pg Investigation of the 1908 fireball in Siberia The Day the Sky Split Apart, Roy Gallant, 1995 Simon & Schuster, 156 pg Good book for young adults on the Tunguska event T Rex and the Crater of Doom, Walter Alvarez, 1997 Princeton Univ Press, 186 pg Giant impact kills off dinosaurs 65 million years ago Man and Impact on the Americas, E P Grondine, 1998 self published, 466 pg The effects of asteroid and comet impacts on man throughout the ages gary PS. It snowed here in Hawaiʻi too Anne. Fortunately for us, only on the summits of Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa, so no shoveling for us except for the dedicated day crew workers of the observatories. On Nov 15, 2009, at 9:40 AM, Dennis Miller wrote: > > Como esta? Anne and List Richard's book will always be a standard. > I recently bought Caroline Smith, Sara Russell and Gretchen Benedix's > new book "Meteorites". These gals "Drs" put together a great book for > those with the slightest interest in meteorites. It's basic and > very easy to read. Loads of great pictures too. I also like Kevin Kichinka's > "The Art of Collecting Meteorites". Now, if you aren't a "Newbie" you > will love McSween's "Meteorites and Their Parent Planets". I use my copy > to fill up the shelf! But, what a Great Hobby, no matter what some say. > Have A Great Day!
Re: [meteorite-list] Guide to "Newbies" (wasMeteorites & Competition)
and I like Kevin Kichinka's The Art of Collecting Meteorites too. Besides other things, it has a great time-line chart of historical meteorite events and happenings. Twink Monrad __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] (AD) 2 meteorites forsale
Free shipping Solar System wide? That's a pretty good deal! Are you sure? Will you ship them to Uranus? Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: "steve arnold" To: Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 1:19 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) 2 meteorites forsale Hi list.Just another quick blurb here.I have 2 meteorites forsale.One of them is the JULY 3RD, 2009 SPACE ROCKS OF THE DAY.It is a 78.2 gram brecciated unclassified stone endcut.It originally came from the meteorites usa meteorite collection.It is highly brecciated and is a beauty. $350 takes it home.I also have a 240 gram IMPACT MELT BRECCIA unclassified stone endcut originally from the dean bessy meteorite collection.$300 will take it home.Free shipping solar system wide.Offlist please and pics upon request or go to space rocks of the for july to see. Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list