Re: [meteorite-list] [Announced June 8, 2010] NWA 5400: Earth-Related Meteorite
I think there is a misunderstanding on what the CRE dating represents. As Shawn pointed out, the abstract clearly states that "The meteorite shows a large 129Xe excess (~3×10-10 cm3/g) derived from 129I decay (T1/2 = 16 Ma), indicative of its formation very early in Solar System history." That is a clear statement that the material is over 4 billion years old. The Cosmic Ray Exposure (CRE) denotes the period of time the material spent in space *after* a disruptive event. IOW, a parent body, very possibly formed during the impact event that formed the moon, was disrupted at some time in the past. The material from this parent body that eventually came to earth and became this meteorite has spent between 3 and 57 million years in space, which is typical of brachinites. Note the range of 54 million years. There are a number of variables in determining the CRE. Part of it is estimating the cosmic ray flux over that period of time and the other is the original depth of the material in the parent body and the diameter of the meteoroid that eventually landed on earth's surface. Cosmic rays penetrate rock only several kilometers, so a parent body with a diameter as little as two or three times this distance could effectively shield large quantities of its interior from CRE over billions of years. Such a body could last in a Main Belt like orbit for billions of years, be disrupted some time between 3 & 57 million years ago, sending fragments into earth crossing orbits, eventually bringing meteorites like NWA 5400 to earth's surface. A formation age of 4.5+ billion years and a CRE of only 3 -57 million years are perfectly consistent with each other for asteroidal meteorites. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite eBook Opinions Sought
Hello Kevin, I would let you know, that your book was the first meteorite book I had ever read. You inspired me to read Nininger´s Find a falling star. Since that time more than hundred books are following. So I can say, you have made me a meteorite book nut. Now time is come to reduce this collection to a small but fine definition. You can be sure, that your book fell in the catagory fine. Three thumbs up! (the reason, why I purchased your book, thanks Bob!) Kevin, why so modestly? take 35$ for your books. It is your work. In a couple of years collectors may pay 100 $ for your out of print book! ... and the print goes on... cu, Uwe -- GRATIS: Spider-Man 1-3 sowie 300 weitere Videos! Jetzt freischalten! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] [Announced June 8, 2010] NWA 5400: Earth-Related Meteorite
Shawn, It's a lot more complicated than that so we need to wait for this statement. I am willing to wait so there is nothing further to add at this point. Best regards, Greg - Original Message - From: "Shawn Alan" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 2:12 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] [Announced June 8, 2010] NWA 5400: Earth-Related Meteorite Hello Greg H I have also spoken to a scientist about NWA 5400 and for the meteorite to be ejected from Earth from the 4 billion Thea event, it would have to make the CRE at 4Ga, if its related to that event. Also, like you said, your not a scientist nor am I, but if you could, it would be great if this scientist could explain the CRE to the List too :) less confusion. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340 [meteorite-list] [Announced June 8, 2010] NWA 5400: Earth-Related Meteorite Greg Hupe gmhupe at htn.net Wed Sep 29 01:52:25 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] [Announced June 8, 2010] NWA 5400: Earth-Related Meteorite Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Shawn, For now there are three scenarios which are spelt out between the two abstracts. While talking with one of the scientists earlier, he pointed out that it is very hard to make a comment similar to yours in regards to the CRE age of NWA 5400 and that he would explain it further to me in a way I can state it to the List. It is not as cut and dry as you put it. I will have to wait for his call as I am not a scientist and refer to experts when needed. Hope this helps with your patience. Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault - Original Message - From: "Shawn Alan" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 1:39 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] [Announced June 8, 2010] NWA 5400: Earth-Related Meteorite Hello Greg H and Listers, That's funny you brought that up because 10 mins ago I found that in the 2010 paper that had the CRE which I over looked, and this is what it says Noble Gases: Noble gases in two samples of NWA 5400 were analyzed by total melting and stepwise heating. The cosmic ray exposure age based on spal-logenic 3He and 21Ne is ~29 Ma, which is within the range of exposure ages of brachinites (3-57 Ma; [9]). The meteorite shows a large 129Xe excess (~3×10-10 cm3/g) derived from 129I decay (T1/2 = 16 Ma), indica-tive of its formation very early in Solar System history. Now if I am reading this correctly, this means that the CRE age puts the NWA 5400 at ~29 Ma. This would mean that this fragment couldn't have came from the 4 billion year old Thea impact that has been speculated? If that was the case, that this fragment came from ejecta from Earth, the CRE would have to 4 billion years old, but that's not the case. Further more in bother papers other ideas have been presented on where NWA 5400 which as follows. Alternatively, NWA 5400 may represent the ultramafic portion of an asteroidal parent body that witnessed similar processing to brachinites, but that evolved more slowly (larger?) and originated from a composi-tionally distinct reservoir, yet one with similarities to the planetary feeding zones of the Earth-Moon system. And Thus we are left with the possibility that NWA 5400 could be an ancient terrene meteorite, or else a sample from a different, differentiated Earth-like body. Now with the CRE proven and matched with other brachinites at less then 30 millions years this might contradict that NWA 5400 was ejected in space from the Thea impact, which in turn proves that NWA 5400 didn't directly come from Earth from that catastrophic event. Lastly its seems that brachinites have been the topic of interest and in the 2009 paper it stated that they formed 4.564 Ga. However, in the 2010 paper its stated that NWA 5400 is younger then brachinite. Now if NWA was formed before then, wouldn't that also contradict when Earth was formed if it came from Earth because if NWA 5400 is related to Earth, then the formation age should match up? Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340 [meteorite-list] [Announced June 8, 2010] NWA 5400: Earth-Related MeteoriteGreg Hupe gmhupe at htn.net Wed Sep 29 01:08:58 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] AD - New Stuff at KD Meteorites! Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Shawn and Others: Since some people did not read or forgot what I wrote in my very first announcement of NWA 5400 on June 8, 2010, here it is to review. You will notice in the second abstract dated 2010 that the Cosmic Ray Exposure date H
[meteorite-list] [Announced June 8, 2010] NWA 5400: Earth-Related Meteorite
Hello Greg H I have also spoken to a scientist about NWA 5400 and for the meteorite to be ejected from Earth from the 4 billion Thea event, it would have to make the CRE at 4Ga, if its related to that event. Also, like you said, your not a scientist nor am I, but if you could, it would be great if this scientist could explain the CRE to the List too :) less confusion. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340 [meteorite-list] [Announced June 8, 2010] NWA 5400: Earth-Related Meteorite Greg Hupe gmhupe at htn.net Wed Sep 29 01:52:25 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] [Announced June 8, 2010] NWA 5400: Earth-Related Meteorite Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Shawn, For now there are three scenarios which are spelt out between the two abstracts. While talking with one of the scientists earlier, he pointed out that it is very hard to make a comment similar to yours in regards to the CRE age of NWA 5400 and that he would explain it further to me in a way I can state it to the List. It is not as cut and dry as you put it. I will have to wait for his call as I am not a scientist and refer to experts when needed. Hope this helps with your patience. Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault - Original Message - From: "Shawn Alan" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 1:39 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] [Announced June 8, 2010] NWA 5400: Earth-Related Meteorite Hello Greg H and Listers, That's funny you brought that up because 10 mins ago I found that in the 2010 paper that had the CRE which I over looked, and this is what it says Noble Gases: Noble gases in two samples of NWA 5400 were analyzed by total melting and stepwise heating. The cosmic ray exposure age based on spal-logenic 3He and 21Ne is ~29 Ma, which is within the range of exposure ages of brachinites (3-57 Ma; [9]). The meteorite shows a large 129Xe excess (~3×10-10 cm3/g) derived from 129I decay (T1/2 = 16 Ma), indica-tive of its formation very early in Solar System history. Now if I am reading this correctly, this means that the CRE age puts the NWA 5400 at ~29 Ma. This would mean that this fragment couldn't have came from the 4 billion year old Thea impact that has been speculated? If that was the case, that this fragment came from ejecta from Earth, the CRE would have to 4 billion years old, but that's not the case. Further more in bother papers other ideas have been presented on where NWA 5400 which as follows. Alternatively, NWA 5400 may represent the ultramafic portion of an asteroidal parent body that witnessed similar processing to brachinites, but that evolved more slowly (larger?) and originated from a composi-tionally distinct reservoir, yet one with similarities to the planetary feeding zones of the Earth-Moon system. And Thus we are left with the possibility that NWA 5400 could be an ancient terrene meteorite, or else a sample from a different, differentiated Earth-like body. Now with the CRE proven and matched with other brachinites at less then 30 millions years this might contradict that NWA 5400 was ejected in space from the Thea impact, which in turn proves that NWA 5400 didn't directly come from Earth from that catastrophic event. Lastly its seems that brachinites have been the topic of interest and in the 2009 paper it stated that they formed 4.564 Ga. However, in the 2010 paper its stated that NWA 5400 is younger then brachinite. Now if NWA was formed before then, wouldn't that also contradict when Earth was formed if it came from Earth because if NWA 5400 is related to Earth, then the formation age should match up? Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340 [meteorite-list] [Announced June 8, 2010] NWA 5400: Earth-Related MeteoriteGreg Hupe gmhupe at htn.net Wed Sep 29 01:08:58 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] AD - New Stuff at KD Meteorites! Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Shawn and Others: Since some people did not read or forgot what I wrote in my very first announcement of NWA 5400 on June 8, 2010, here it is to review. You will notice in the second abstract dated 2010 that the Cosmic Ray Exposure date HAS been determined. Now how scientists compile that data with other information is for them to study, ponder and write new abstracts. June 8, 2010 [Meteorite Central List] > Dear List Members, > > I would like to announce an important new meteorite that has been under > int
Re: [meteorite-list] [Announced June 8, 2010] NWA 5400: Earth-Related Meteorite
Shawn, For now there are three scenarios which are spelt out between the two abstracts. While talking with one of the scientists earlier, he pointed out that it is very hard to make a comment similar to yours in regards to the CRE age of NWA 5400 and that he would explain it further to me in a way I can state it to the List. It is not as cut and dry as you put it. I will have to wait for his call as I am not a scientist and refer to experts when needed. Hope this helps with your patience. Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmh...@htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault - Original Message - From: "Shawn Alan" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 1:39 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] [Announced June 8, 2010] NWA 5400: Earth-Related Meteorite Hello Greg H and Listers, That's funny you brought that up because 10 mins ago I found that in the 2010 paper that had the CRE which I over looked, and this is what it says Noble Gases: Noble gases in two samples of NWA 5400 were analyzed by total melting and stepwise heating. The cosmic ray exposure age based on spal-logenic 3He and 21Ne is ~29 Ma, which is within the range of exposure ages of brachinites (3-57 Ma; [9]). The meteorite shows a large 129Xe excess (~3×10-10 cm3/g) derived from 129I decay (T1/2 = 16 Ma), indica-tive of its formation very early in Solar System history. Now if I am reading this correctly, this means that the CRE age puts the NWA 5400 at ~29 Ma. This would mean that this fragment couldn't have came from the 4 billion year old Thea impact that has been speculated? If that was the case, that this fragment came from ejecta from Earth, the CRE would have to 4 billion years old, but that's not the case. Further more in bother papers other ideas have been presented on where NWA 5400 which as follows. Alternatively, NWA 5400 may represent the ultramafic portion of an asteroidal parent body that witnessed similar processing to brachinites, but that evolved more slowly (larger?) and originated from a composi-tionally distinct reservoir, yet one with similarities to the planetary feeding zones of the Earth-Moon system. And Thus we are left with the possibility that NWA 5400 could be an ancient terrene meteorite, or else a sample from a different, differentiated Earth-like body. Now with the CRE proven and matched with other brachinites at less then 30 millions years this might contradict that NWA 5400 was ejected in space from the Thea impact, which in turn proves that NWA 5400 didn't directly come from Earth from that catastrophic event. Lastly its seems that brachinites have been the topic of interest and in the 2009 paper it stated that they formed 4.564 Ga. However, in the 2010 paper its stated that NWA 5400 is younger then brachinite. Now if NWA was formed before then, wouldn't that also contradict when Earth was formed if it came from Earth because if NWA 5400 is related to Earth, then the formation age should match up? Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340 [meteorite-list] [Announced June 8, 2010] NWA 5400: Earth-Related MeteoriteGreg Hupe gmhupe at htn.net Wed Sep 29 01:08:58 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] AD - New Stuff at KD Meteorites! Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Shawn and Others: Since some people did not read or forgot what I wrote in my very first announcement of NWA 5400 on June 8, 2010, here it is to review. You will notice in the second abstract dated 2010 that the Cosmic Ray Exposure date HAS been determined. Now how scientists compile that data with other information is for them to study, ponder and write new abstracts. June 8, 2010 [Meteorite Central List] Dear List Members, I would like to announce an important new meteorite that has been under intense analysis over the last two years by a select group of scientists from around the world... NWA 5400: Earth-Related Ungrouped Meteorite Northwest Africa 5400 may be a sample from a large asteroid or dwarf planet, which accreted in the early solar nebula in the vicinity of proto-Earth or Theia. NWA 5400 has oxygen isotope ratios indistinguishable from those of rocks from the Earth and the Moon, which plot on the TFL (Terrestrial Fractionation Line). A precise formation age has not yet been measured, but it cannot be older than 4.54 billion years, which likely makes NWA 5400 anomalously young among primitive achondritic objects from the early Solar System. It is generally accepted that the Earth-Moon system was created when Theia collided with proto-Earth about 4.3 billion years ago. Is it possible that NWA 5400 is somehow related to this phenomenal
[meteorite-list] [Announced June 8, 2010] NWA 5400: Earth-Related Meteorite
Hello Greg H and Listers, That's funny you brought that up because 10 mins ago I found that in the 2010 paper that had the CRE which I over looked, and this is what it says Noble Gases: Noble gases in two samples of NWA 5400 were analyzed by total melting and stepwise heating. The cosmic ray exposure age based on spal-logenic 3He and 21Ne is ~29 Ma, which is within the range of exposure ages of brachinites (3-57 Ma; [9]). The meteorite shows a large 129Xe excess (~3×10-10 cm3/g) derived from 129I decay (T1/2 = 16 Ma), indica-tive of its formation very early in Solar System history. Now if I am reading this correctly, this means that the CRE age puts the NWA 5400 at ~29 Ma. This would mean that this fragment couldn't have came from the 4 billion year old Thea impact that has been speculated? If that was the case, that this fragment came from ejecta from Earth, the CRE would have to 4 billion years old, but that's not the case. Further more in bother papers other ideas have been presented on where NWA 5400 which as follows. Alternatively, NWA 5400 may represent the ultramafic portion of an asteroidal parent body that witnessed similar processing to brachinites, but that evolved more slowly (larger?) and originated from a composi-tionally distinct reservoir, yet one with similarities to the planetary feeding zones of the Earth-Moon system. And Thus we are left with the possibility that NWA 5400 could be an ancient terrene meteorite, or else a sample from a different, differentiated Earth-like body. Now with the CRE proven and matched with other brachinites at less then 30 millions years this might contradict that NWA 5400 was ejected in space from the Thea impact, which in turn proves that NWA 5400 didn't directly come from Earth from that catastrophic event. Lastly its seems that brachinites have been the topic of interest and in the 2009 paper it stated that they formed 4.564 Ga. However, in the 2010 paper its stated that NWA 5400 is younger then brachinite. Now if NWA was formed before then, wouldn't that also contradict when Earth was formed if it came from Earth because if NWA 5400 is related to Earth, then the formation age should match up? Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340 [meteorite-list] [Announced June 8, 2010] NWA 5400: Earth-Related MeteoriteGreg Hupe gmhupe at htn.net Wed Sep 29 01:08:58 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] AD - New Stuff at KD Meteorites! Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Shawn and Others: Since some people did not read or forgot what I wrote in my very first announcement of NWA 5400 on June 8, 2010, here it is to review. You will notice in the second abstract dated 2010 that the Cosmic Ray Exposure date HAS been determined. Now how scientists compile that data with other information is for them to study, ponder and write new abstracts. June 8, 2010 [Meteorite Central List] > Dear List Members, > > I would like to announce an important new meteorite that has been under > intense analysis over the last two years by a select group of scientists > from around the world... > > NWA 5400: Earth-Related Ungrouped Meteorite > > Northwest Africa 5400 may be a sample from a large asteroid or dwarf > planet, > which accreted in the early solar nebula in the vicinity of proto-Earth or > Theia. NWA 5400 has oxygen isotope ratios indistinguishable from those of > rocks from the Earth and the Moon, which plot on the TFL (Terrestrial > Fractionation Line). A precise formation age has not yet been measured, > but > it cannot be older than 4.54 billion years, which likely makes NWA 5400 > anomalously young among primitive achondritic objects from the early Solar > System. It is generally accepted that the Earth-Moon system was created > when > Theia collided with proto-Earth about 4.3 billion years ago. Is it > possible > that NWA 5400 is somehow related to this phenomenal event? > > NWA 5400 adds valuable understanding of events that took place in the > early > evolution period of the Solar System. After two years of intense analysis, > scientists at prominent institutions from around the world continue to > diligently study this 'stand-alone' meteorite, which will add to the > already > incredible information NWA 5400 has to offer. > > Link to 2009 LPSC abstract on NWA 5400: > http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2009/pdf/2332.pdf > > Link to 2010 LPSC abstract on NWA 5400: > http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2010/pdf/1492.pdf > > NWA 5400 has a Total Known Weight of 4.818 kg in a single stone that was > discovered in Northwest Africa in 2008. The chocolate-brown mottled matrix > takes an extremely nice polish, which reveals the dazzling olivine > crystals > exhibited in this scientifically important new meteori
Re: [meteorite-list] Twice Blessed Yankee Lobsterman
Statistically improbable, agreed. I'll toss in some more believable Maine meteorite trivia I believe I read in The Works of Nininger and have to rely on memory as my copy is in storage.There was a report of an impact in remote Maine which reached Harvey so he promptly went to investigate. He found a substantial (30ft diameter?) crater-like feature in a peat bog where debris had been flung onto the faces of trees facing the watery pit. Beneath the water, the bottom of the pit was of course peat with the consistency of butter. This was one of those "quaking earth" type bogs where the ground was springy and spongy where one walked upon it. After lengthy but difficult haphazard probing, nothing was located. There was some discussion that there might be something offset from the pit and under the rim and that is where the story/memory goes silent other that nothing meteoritical was found. That is the story and I am sticking to it. Anyone have the specifics? Elton - Original Message > From: Bob Loeffler > To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Tue, September 28, 2010 11:31:37 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Twice Blessed Yankee Lobsterman > > Hi Dave, > > Unfortunately, I'm not seeing any mention of either meteorite in the > Meteorical Bulletin database, so those two "meteorites" were probably never > proven to be real meteorites. > > Regards, > > Bob Loeffler > > > > -Original Message- > From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of David > Gunning > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 3:44 PM > To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Cc: davidgunn...@fairpoint.net > Subject: [meteorite-list] Twice Blessed Yankee Lobsterman > > > Greetings to all from this brand new list newbie. Wondering if anyone > has any info on a Maine coastal double meteorite "find" at Round Pond, > Maine, that occurred several years ago? > > Seems a lobsterman was hauling his lobster boat up the public boat ramp > and out of the water for the winter season, back in 1953. Happening to > glance down at the ground at his feet and spied a 5 lb. 10 oz. meteorite > quietly sunning itself on the rocky beach. A remarkable find and made > all the more remarkable, perhaps, by the fact that the same lobsterman, > 16 years later in 1969, hauling the same boat out of the same harbor, at > the same public boat ramp, glanced down at his feet and found another > meteorite, a 6 lb. 4 oz. beauty sunning itself, as well, midst the great > slabs of metamorphosed granite and gneiss. Maine's only double meteorite > find. > > I am trying to find-out what type and classification those two coastal > sun bathing lobster loving meteorites are (were) and their eventual fate. > > Anyone knows the ultimate disposition of these two missing Maine > lobsterized meteorites, please pass the butter, and let me know. Thanks. > > Best wishes, > > Dave Gunning > > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.856 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3143 - Release Date: 09/28/10 > 00:34:00 > > __ > Visit the Archives at >http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] [Announced June 8, 2010] NWA 5400: Earth-Related Meteorite
Shawn and Others: Since some people did not read or forgot what I wrote in my very first announcement of NWA 5400 on June 8, 2010, here it is to review. You will notice in the second abstract dated 2010 that the Cosmic Ray Exposure date HAS been determined. Now how scientists compile that data with other information is for them to study, ponder and write new abstracts. June 8, 2010 [Meteorite Central List] Dear List Members, I would like to announce an important new meteorite that has been under intense analysis over the last two years by a select group of scientists from around the world... NWA 5400: Earth-Related Ungrouped Meteorite Northwest Africa 5400 may be a sample from a large asteroid or dwarf planet, which accreted in the early solar nebula in the vicinity of proto-Earth or Theia. NWA 5400 has oxygen isotope ratios indistinguishable from those of rocks from the Earth and the Moon, which plot on the TFL (Terrestrial Fractionation Line). A precise formation age has not yet been measured, but it cannot be older than 4.54 billion years, which likely makes NWA 5400 anomalously young among primitive achondritic objects from the early Solar System. It is generally accepted that the Earth-Moon system was created when Theia collided with proto-Earth about 4.3 billion years ago. Is it possible that NWA 5400 is somehow related to this phenomenal event? NWA 5400 adds valuable understanding of events that took place in the early evolution period of the Solar System. After two years of intense analysis, scientists at prominent institutions from around the world continue to diligently study this 'stand-alone' meteorite, which will add to the already incredible information NWA 5400 has to offer. Link to 2009 LPSC abstract on NWA 5400: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2009/pdf/2332.pdf Link to 2010 LPSC abstract on NWA 5400: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2010/pdf/1492.pdf NWA 5400 has a Total Known Weight of 4.818 kg in a single stone that was discovered in Northwest Africa in 2008. The chocolate-brown mottled matrix takes an extremely nice polish, which reveals the dazzling olivine crystals exhibited in this scientifically important new meteorite! Cross-polarized light optical thin section image of NWA 5400 (width of field = 1.2mm): http://www.lunarrock.com/NWA5400/nwa5400xpl.jpg Image of 58.9-gram complete slice with hologram-like olivine crystals that dance across the polished surface when tilted from side to side: http://www.lunarrock.com/NWA5400/nwa5400slice.jpg Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmh...@htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2926 - Release Date: 06/08/10 14:35:00 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD - New Stuff at KD Meteorites!
Hello, Everyone! First, I want to apologize for my accidental blank post the other day. Got a new phone and hit the wrong button! I want to let everyone know that we have some really nice new additions to our site. Besides that silicated brecciated Campo, we also have some killer Henbury pieces, a few new individual Sikhote-Alins, additional Muonionalusta etched slices, and some super nice Fukang Pallasite Slices. We have also added some really awesome looking New Campo individuals, and a nice, large Admire Pallasite Meteorite Nugget. Click here to go to our What's New page and check them out! http://kdmeteorites.com/whatsnew.html Thanks for looking! Cheers Dana and Keith -- KD Meteorites kdmeteorites.com admiremeteorites.com Keith and Dana Jenkerson 4596 N. Vickie Lane Kingman, AZ., 86409 928-399-0140 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] BIG 24" saw for sale
if you need to cut those giant nwa XXX, this'll do it: http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/tls/1979220558.html rox, relix trades entertained. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] pairing and collecting
Richard and Lister, I think you and the rest of us on here feel the same way about meteorite collecting, but at the end of the day, some Listers can spend $1000's if not more and for those reasons money is an issue. To fork over a few $1000 for an NWA 5400 that has been speculated to be from Earth, which no proven evidence has been put forth can be hardening and to make matters more interesting, there are meteorites coming out of the wood workings of the meteorite world that are being paired with NWA 5400. All of these factors can affect the value of the meteorite and how much is spent on acquiring it. I see this has happenen nefore with meteorites and chatted with some people that told me they spent some coins and to find out later that the research didn't become of anything or that exclusive meteorite, has pairings. Now to me I would rethink before I would buy a meteorite and be certain that the research is done and proven and not just speculated. I find it difficult sometimes that some of the processes used to market meteorites can be over indulged in some ways and the research hasn't been proven yet. So that's way at the end of the day I go withthe historic meteorites, they have proven time and time to have a rich history and legacy, which I am fond of and enjoy tracing back the footsteps that theses meteorites had on the science community. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340 [meteorite-list] pairing and collectingRichard Montgomery rickmont at earthlink.net Tue Sep 28 22:48:57 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] pairing and collecting Next message: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] David and List...in concert with the current discussion on NWA 5400 and 6292: I want to share with everyone why I even started this passion, because it goes directly to David's point. It also points to a reminder of why we do this crazy passion. Essentially, it is knowledge that drives most of us, at the very least the quest for knowledge When the political winds started blowing along about global climate trends, I decided to investigate for myself. I know/knew that more powerful sources were impacting our planet, more than aerosol cans. I wound finding Rocks-From-Space. Eyes open. (My original copy is so dog-eared and re-re-re-read that I eventually bought a hard-cover with Richard Norton's blessing and signatureI keep it next to the other awesome texts of our time!) And, the rest became history, literally. None in my circle of debating friends had any clue about meteoritic impact events, let alone "instant impact" events that have changed the static model of specie emergence and declineactually off the page and not even known. The status quo static model for evolving species being the prevailing trend, I was a lone wolf even bringing this up. So, I decided to become best-friends with meteorites and all things meteoritic that I could find. Power is found in things true, every time it's used. Knowledge drives my passion, not $$ (although, since I have a pitiful limited supply of it, it does limit my ability to look and see) Just a thought for relativity. -Richard Montgomery This passion we all have in meteorites - Original Message - From: "David R. Vann" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 10:24 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] pairing and collecting > > I'd like to make a couple of observations about both pairing and > collecting. > > Several comments have been made regarding preserving the value of a > meterorite, > with reference to pairings decreasing value, etc. I don't know why you > collect, > heck, I don't even know why I collect things. It is apparently a part of > human > nature (for at least some) . Sure, we rationalize it by saying "it is a > beautiful thing", "it has an interesting story", etc., but in the final > analysis, these things are not necessities. Somewhere along the line, I > think it > was with baseball cards, the rarity of some items, combined with an > increasing > market from an expnading population, drove the price for these items out > of > sight. And thus, the concept of "investibles" had its genesis. This is a > marketing ploy to get you to buy things. However, if you think that > collectible > items are an investment with a monetary return, you need to think very, > very > carefully about this idea. The vast majority of collectible items will not > make > you rich. An example: a friend bought a Saint Gaudens gold coin a while > back. > Whereas his stocks declined, he ultimately sold the coin for twice what he > paid > - so he thought he made out. The actual rate of return was just about 3 > 1/2 > percent. Guess how much inflation went up during that time?
[meteorite-list] NWA5400 redux - a long explanation
Carl: I am glad that I provoked thought - that is in my mandate as an educator...;) I will try to answer your questions, albeit perhaps not in order, and I hope I can explain. First, you ask about Mbarak's box of rocks, aren't they likely paired? Well, it is very unlikely that two different brachinites fell in the same spot. Not impossible, but very unlikely. Therefore, it seems likely that the rocks are from the same fall if found in the same area. Second, you have several questions about O isotopes. In the case of NWA5400 pairings, it is important because all agree that it is a brachinite (more on this below); what makes it unusual is that is has different O isotopes than other brachinites, so any rocks that have similar O isotopes are likely from the same meteoroid. Oxygen isotopes haven't really taken over the pairing question; as has already been noted, many different parameters must converge before two rocks can be paired. What's up with the O isotope thing anyway? Oxygen has three 'isotopes' - it has three different weights, based on the number of neutrons in its nucleus. The weights, relative to hydrogen, are 16, 16 and 18. Theoretically, as oxygen is formed in the fusion reactions of the Sun and expelled, or trapped from molecules drifting in interstellar space, these three isotopes begin to sort out in the solar wind. The gravitational attraction of the lighter isotope, 16O, is, naturally, less than the others. Thus, the solar wind can more easily push the lighter isotope farther out into space. Consequently, there is a gradient of increasing amounts of 16O relative to 18O as you go farther out. (same logic appllies to 17O, of course). Since the sun continues to form oxygen, the system is continually replenished, and is thus arguably at a steady state (or there would be the complication that we don't know the gradient 4.5 billion years ago). This theoretical concept is borne out by spectrographic measurements in space, so it seems to work. Within these gradients, planets formed. When, for instance, magnesium reacts with silicon and oxygen to form magnesium silicate (e.g. enstatite), it clearly would condense with the distribution of oxygen isotopes where it condensed. This is the basis for the idea that oxygen isotopes record how far away from the Sun the matter condensed. Naturally, there are complications, which I may gert back to before I finish here. Almost startlingly, when the first bunch of meteorites were analyzed, they showed a pattern consistent with this expectation. THus, oxygen isotopes are used to *infer* whereabouts the sample originated, at least within a few million miles or so. Now, as to NWA5400; maybe only two abstracts have been publshed. Keep in mind that it can take a while for things to get published, and it can take quite a while to complete these analyses and get them right. But, I would like to say, the two abstracts published say quite a lot, and reflect a great deal of analyses already performed. Tony Irvings group has, in my opinion produced as musch useful information as most of what gets published in the magazine "Science". The problem is that the scientific community does not know enough about the genesis of the Solar system to do much more than speculate about the meaning of the results. But what results they are: NWA 5400 is a Brachinite. What this means, is that it consists primarily of olivine (peridot) and is classified as an "ultramafic" rock - one high in Magnesium and iron and low in silicates (compared to crustal rocks of Earth). It is dense. In geology, one might call this rock a dunite or dunitic wehrlite; we find rocks like this on Earth (I have a few on my desk), and the compostion resembles the upper mantle of the Earth. The mineralogy of the rock isn't actually particularly rare. Because the isotope resemble Earth's, it has been suggested that NWA5400 is a remnant of the putative Earth-Theia impact. For a number of reasons, Theia probably formed near Earth's orbit, thus had an oxygen isotopic distribution similar to Earth's. The collision was more than powerful enough to exhume portions of Earth's mantle, particularly since, at this time, Earth wasn't yet exactly solid in the way we perceive it today. The metal content isn't really an issue. There isn't actually very much, and most resides in sulfides. It is also quite conceivable that, this early in Earth's planetogenesis, substantial amounts (by this I mean, say, 2-3%) of iron and nickel had not yet migrated to the core. Thus, a piece of the upper mantle knocked into space 4.5 billion yrs ago might have more metal than one might expect based on today's observations of the Earth. Do keep in mind, though, that we do fiond metal-rich rocks on Earth, even at the surface; the Plato Putorano basalt comes to mind. What is clear is that the rock had formed on a body big enough to differentiate. BTW, the there is an age on NWA5400; age of formation is consistent with Theia time frame. CRE ages are
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite eBook Opinions Sought
Well Kevin I have mine Cover to cover I did not put it down. Sad something has to change but I do encourage anyone who hasn't read it to get it in one format or another. Rob Wesel www.nakhladogmeteorites.com www.facebook.com/Nakhla.Dog.Meteorites www.facebook.com/Rob.Wesel -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 - Original Message - From: "Gary Fujihara" To: "Kevin Kichinka" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite eBook Opinions Sought Aloha Kevin, Mike, Bernd, list, I am a happy owner of a "The Art of Collecting Meteorites" book, one of many dozens on meteorites that I have in my library. I agree with Bernd that I would not like many photos deleted, color illustrations eliminated or the quality of paper diminished. I love books, and to have a tangible reference at my disposal is indispensable. I suppose eBooks serve a purpose, but to this old school collector, I just don't like reading things on a computer monitor. I also hope that in the future, books like "The Art of Collecting Meteorites" will continue to be available to new collectors and students of those intriguing black rocks. gary On Sep 28, 2010, at 11:31 AM, Kevin Kichinka wrote: > Many of you on the list have purchased, and hopefully enjoyed, my book > "The Art of Collecting Meteorites". It was self-published in 2005. > When it was still just a dream no publisher found my proffered > synopsis worthy of consideration. After I had sold hundreds of copies > I re-submitted the actual book to a dozen publishers. Most rejected > it, and the couple that were interested wanted to change the title, > change the cover, delete many photos, eliminate "color" illustrations > and diminish the quality of the paper it was written on. For this, I > would net about $1 per sold copy. Unpalatable. > > I'm down to about twenty copies (Blaine Reed also has a few left for > sale) and have considered having the printer, Bookmasters, run off a > hundred more so I can continue to fill orders. Otherwise "we will turn > the final page" (pun intended) and it will go "out of print" soon. The > cost of this small run is so high that I would need to charge $26.95 > for a book that has sold since 2005 for $21.95 to earn the same slim > profit margin. > > I am looking for learned opinions from the people who have or could be > the end users, the fine people who are avid meteorite aficionados on > this meteorite bulletin board. > > 1. Are there any buyers in these difficult times for a 232 page > all-color, high-quality paperback book priced at $26.95? > > 2. Would anyone purchase the same book for $13 (half-price) to be read > on their computer in a pdf (Adobe) format? > > 3. Would anyone purchase this to be read as an eBook (Apple) or from > Amazon (Kindle)? How much is "The Art of Collecting Meteorites" worth > to you in these formats? > > Your opinions will play a great part in my decision. > > Regards from Nine Degrees North > > Kevin Kichinka (mars...@gmail.com) > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Gary Fujihara Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693) 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/ http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html (808) 640-9161 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Twice Blessed Yankee Lobsterman
Hi Dave, Unfortunately, I'm not seeing any mention of either meteorite in the Meteorical Bulletin database, so those two "meteorites" were probably never proven to be real meteorites. Regards, Bob Loeffler -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of David Gunning Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 3:44 PM To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: davidgunn...@fairpoint.net Subject: [meteorite-list] Twice Blessed Yankee Lobsterman Greetings to all from this brand new list newbie. Wondering if anyone has any info on a Maine coastal double meteorite "find" at Round Pond, Maine, that occurred several years ago? Seems a lobsterman was hauling his lobster boat up the public boat ramp and out of the water for the winter season, back in 1953. Happening to glance down at the ground at his feet and spied a 5 lb. 10 oz. meteorite quietly sunning itself on the rocky beach. A remarkable find and made all the more remarkable, perhaps, by the fact that the same lobsterman, 16 years later in 1969, hauling the same boat out of the same harbor, at the same public boat ramp, glanced down at his feet and found another meteorite, a 6 lb. 4 oz. beauty sunning itself, as well, midst the great slabs of metamorphosed granite and gneiss. Maine's only double meteorite find. I am trying to find-out what type and classification those two coastal sun bathing lobster loving meteorites are (were) and their eventual fate. Anyone knows the ultimate disposition of these two missing Maine lobsterized meteorites, please pass the butter, and let me know. Thanks. Best wishes, Dave Gunning __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.856 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3143 - Release Date: 09/28/10 00:34:00 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Celtic coin depicting comet?
Good call, managed to look up the coin after the dolphin suggestion: http://www.worldcoincatalog.com/AC/C1/CelticKingdoms/Aquitania/Tectosages/Tectosages.htm Oh well, its a dolphin, not a comet. -Yinan On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 9:27 PM, Peter Scherff wrote: > Hi Yinan, > > I think that Tett is correct the common description is that of a > dolphin in front of a bust facing left. Still a cool coin. > > Thanks, > > Peter > > -Original Message- > From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Yinan Wang > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 7:08 PM > To: METEORITE LIST > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Celtic coin depicting comet? > > Better picture, of two of the coins. > > Ya, open to interpretation. > > http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000b01z6 > > -Yinan > > On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 5:40 PM, tett wrote: >> Or a fish jumping out of the water. >> >> That would be cool should this turn out to be a shooting star or > meteoroid. >> >> Cheers! >> >> Mike Tettenborn >> Also porud owner of some NWA 6292 >> >> >> >> >> On 28/09/2010 4:58 PM, Yinan Wang wrote: >>> >>> Just trying to get some opinions. I recently got a batch of celtic >>> coins from a french hoard in trade for some fossils. >>> >>> Two of the coins seem to have some interesting symbolism; what appears >>> to be a comet over two mountains. >>> >>> Or perhaps that my interpretation. >>> >>> See for yourself; >>> http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000azspb >>> >>> Feedback? I'll try to get some better pictures later. >>> >>> -Yinan >>> __ >>> Visit the Archives at >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> >> > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] pairing and collecting
David and List...in concert with the current discussion on NWA 5400 and 6292: I want to share with everyone why I even started this passion, because it goes directly to David's point. It also points to a reminder of why we do this crazy passion. Essentially, it is knowledge that drives most of us, at the very least the quest for knowledge When the political winds started blowing along about global climate trends, I decided to investigate for myself. I know/knew that more powerful sources were impacting our planet, more than aerosol cans. I wound finding Rocks-From-Space. Eyes open. (My original copy is so dog-eared and re-re-re-read that I eventually bought a hard-cover with Richard Norton's blessing and signatureI keep it next to the other awesome texts of our time!) And, the rest became history, literally. None in my circle of debating friends had any clue about meteoritic impact events, let alone "instant impact" events that have changed the static model of specie emergence and declineactually off the page and not even known. The status quo static model for evolving species being the prevailing trend, I was a lone wolf even bringing this up. So, I decided to become best-friends with meteorites and all things meteoritic that I could find. Power is found in things true, every time it's used. Knowledge drives my passion, not $$ (although, since I have a pitiful limited supply of it, it does limit my ability to look and see) Just a thought for relativity. -Richard Montgomery This passion we all have in meteorites - Original Message - From: "David R. Vann" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 10:24 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] pairing and collecting I'd like to make a couple of observations about both pairing and collecting. Several comments have been made regarding preserving the value of a meterorite, with reference to pairings decreasing value, etc. I don't know why you collect, heck, I don't even know why I collect things. It is apparently a part of human nature (for at least some) . Sure, we rationalize it by saying "it is a beautiful thing", "it has an interesting story", etc., but in the final analysis, these things are not necessities. Somewhere along the line, I think it was with baseball cards, the rarity of some items, combined with an increasing market from an expnading population, drove the price for these items out of sight. And thus, the concept of "investibles" had its genesis. This is a marketing ploy to get you to buy things. However, if you think that collectible items are an investment with a monetary return, you need to think very, very carefully about this idea. The vast majority of collectible items will not make you rich. An example: a friend bought a Saint Gaudens gold coin a while back. Whereas his stocks declined, he ultimately sold the coin for twice what he paid - so he thought he made out. The actual rate of return was just about 3 1/2 percent. Guess how much inflation went up during that time? I have watched many types of collectible investments over the years. Most actually lose money after you account for inflation. Many of them return the same buying power you had when they were bought. A few, very few, bring a great return on investment. Where do meteorites fall? I doubt that you will make much money on them, Bob Haag nonwithstanding. There is always a point in a new market where there is money to be made, but after that, not so much. As a dealer, can you make a living? Quite possibly, yes - that can be answered by others. Will there be a return as an investment - I seriously doubt it. No collector should collect because he or she expects a return on investment - you should collect because you like the item, like looking at it, like its story/history, or as Martin said, because you can be involved in some way with the science. In other words, for the pleasure brought to you by the possession of the object. If you make money on it, well then, that's a great bonus. But it should never be the purpose, as you will be disappointed. I'm sure many on this list can add their own experiences in this regard. Just remember, next time the speculating bankers take down the world economy (again...how many times is it now?), meteorites will have no value - but your can of Spam will. So, if my meteorite now has a new friend, a pair, am I to despair? Well, not from the scientific point of view, because that is supporting evidence. How about from the investment point of view? Does the value decrease because we now have two stones? Does it? (see above) How about from the point of view of the collector? Now you can buy two, rather than just one. What are we collecting, after all? We are collecting names. Yes, names, like Orgueil, Almahatta Sitta, Weston. If the current understanding is correct, the lithological classification of a meteorite has something to do with the body(ies)
Re: [meteorite-list] Celtic coin depicting comet?
I personally see the moon over the mountains with a large comet visible. Steve Steve Witt IMCA #9020 http://imca.cc/ --- On Tue, 9/28/10, Peter Scherff wrote: > From: Peter Scherff > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Celtic coin depicting comet? > To: "'Yinan Wang'" , "'METEORITE LIST'" > > Date: Tuesday, September 28, 2010, 9:27 PM > Hi Yinan, > > I think that Tett is correct the common > description is that of a > dolphin in front of a bust facing left. Still a cool coin. > > Thanks, > > Peter > > -Original Message- > From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] > On Behalf Of Yinan Wang > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 7:08 PM > To: METEORITE LIST > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Celtic coin depicting comet? > > Better picture, of two of the coins. > > Ya, open to interpretation. > > http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000b01z6 > > -Yinan > > On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 5:40 PM, tett > wrote: > > Or a fish jumping out of the water. > > > > That would be cool should this turn out to be a > shooting star or > meteoroid. > > > > Cheers! > > > > Mike Tettenborn > > Also porud owner of some NWA 6292 > > > > > > > > > > On 28/09/2010 4:58 PM, Yinan Wang wrote: > >> > >> Just trying to get some opinions. I recently got a > batch of celtic > >> coins from a french hoard in trade for some > fossils. > >> > >> Two of the coins seem to have some interesting > symbolism; what appears > >> to be a comet over two mountains. > >> > >> Or perhaps that my interpretation. > >> > >> See for yourself; > >> http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000azspb > >> > >> Feedback? I'll try to get some better pictures > later. > >> > >> -Yinan > >> __ > >> Visit the Archives at > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > > > > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Celtic coin depicting comet?
Hi Yinan, I think that Tett is correct the common description is that of a dolphin in front of a bust facing left. Still a cool coin. Thanks, Peter -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Yinan Wang Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 7:08 PM To: METEORITE LIST Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Celtic coin depicting comet? Better picture, of two of the coins. Ya, open to interpretation. http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000b01z6 -Yinan On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 5:40 PM, tett wrote: > Or a fish jumping out of the water. > > That would be cool should this turn out to be a shooting star or meteoroid. > > Cheers! > > Mike Tettenborn > Also porud owner of some NWA 6292 > > > > > On 28/09/2010 4:58 PM, Yinan Wang wrote: >> >> Just trying to get some opinions. I recently got a batch of celtic >> coins from a french hoard in trade for some fossils. >> >> Two of the coins seem to have some interesting symbolism; what appears >> to be a comet over two mountains. >> >> Or perhaps that my interpretation. >> >> See for yourself; >> http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000azspb >> >> Feedback? I'll try to get some better pictures later. >> >> -Yinan >> __ >> Visit the Archives at >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite eBook Opinions Sought
Hi Kevin. _The Art of Collecting Meteorites_ was literally the second book I owned about meteorite collecting and the first one I purchased when I started collecting seriously. All things being equal, I personally would rather have a hard copy book in my hands. Real books are "instant on", "random access", are not subject to changes in technology or format. 4000 year old books are still readable and always will be. They require no power source. They also have other ephemeral benefits to the reader, readers like me who prefer bound books; The feel and sound of turning the page, the smell of the ink, paper and binding, the heft and size of the volume, etc. Bound books will be with us forever, but I can also see that the future will not be kind to the majority of books. This past July sales of ebooks has surpassed sales of bound books for the first time in history. Just as the amount of first class mail has diminished and newspapers become unprofitable and close their doors due to dropping readership, bound books will continue to hold a smaller and smaller market share. eBooks haave plenty of benefits, but in my opinion eBooks have more than their fair share of negatives and I have no intention to start buying eBooks in any quantity any time soon. I think I've purchased exactly one eBook, but only because the author chose not to do a bound run. The real question you have to ask yourself is where is your future market? Is it with older collectors who have been using the ancient technology of bound books for decades, and in many cases already HAVE your book, or is it with new collectors, who may be younger and are transitioning to to eBooks rapidly? Its becoming clear that the future of books is in a digital format, no matter how little I (and other respondents) like them that way. For economic reasons alone, you should probably complete your final run of bound books to satisfy your immediate orders, but go with a digital version as those stocks are finally depleted. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 --- On Tue, 9/28/10, Kevin Kichinka wrote: > From: Kevin Kichinka > Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite eBook Opinions Sought > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Tuesday, September 28, 2010, 2:31 PM > Many of you on the list have > purchased, and hopefully enjoyed, my book > "The Art of Collecting Meteorites". It was self-published > in 2005. > When it was still just a dream no publisher found my > proffered > synopsis worthy of consideration. After I had sold hundreds > of copies > I re-submitted the actual book to a dozen publishers. Most > rejected > it, and the couple that were interested wanted to change > the title, > change the cover, delete many photos, eliminate "color" > illustrations > and diminish the quality of the paper it was written on. > For this, I > would net about $1 per sold copy. Unpalatable. > > I'm down to about twenty copies (Blaine Reed also has a few > left for > sale) and have considered having the printer, Bookmasters, > run off a > hundred more so I can continue to fill orders. Otherwise > "we will turn > the final page" (pun intended) and it will go "out of > print" soon. The > cost of this small run is so high that I would need to > charge $26.95 > for a book that has sold since 2005 for $21.95 to earn the > same slim > profit margin. > > I am looking for learned opinions from the people who have > or could be > the end users, the fine people who are avid meteorite > aficionados on > this meteorite bulletin board. > > 1. Are there any buyers in these difficult times for a 232 > page > all-color, high-quality paperback book priced at $26.95? > > 2. Would anyone purchase the same book for $13 (half-price) > to be read > on their computer in a pdf (Adobe) format? > > 3. Would anyone purchase this to be read as an eBook > (Apple) or from > Amazon (Kindle)? How much is "The Art of Collecting > Meteorites" worth > to you in these formats? > > Your opinions will play a great part in my decision. > > Regards from Nine Degrees North > > Kevin Kichinka (mars...@gmail.com) > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Celtic coin depicting comet?
Hi Yinan, Interesting coins. What metal are they made of? Can you post a photo of the other side? Thanks, Peter -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Yinan Wang Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 7:08 PM To: METEORITE LIST Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Celtic coin depicting comet? Better picture, of two of the coins. Ya, open to interpretation. http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000b01z6 -Yinan On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 5:40 PM, tett wrote: > Or a fish jumping out of the water. > > That would be cool should this turn out to be a shooting star or meteoroid. > > Cheers! > > Mike Tettenborn > Also porud owner of some NWA 6292 > > > > > On 28/09/2010 4:58 PM, Yinan Wang wrote: >> >> Just trying to get some opinions. I recently got a batch of celtic >> coins from a french hoard in trade for some fossils. >> >> Two of the coins seem to have some interesting symbolism; what appears >> to be a comet over two mountains. >> >> Or perhaps that my interpretation. >> >> See for yourself; >> http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000azspb >> >> Feedback? I'll try to get some better pictures later. >> >> -Yinan >> __ >> Visit the Archives at >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Celtic coin depicting comet?
Here is a picture of the reverse: http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000b1seh All the coins have the same backing, but I haven't figured out which hoard it is yet. They are silver. -Yinan On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 7:43 PM, Peter Scherff wrote: > Hi Yinan, > > Interesting coins. What metal are they made of? Can you post a photo > of the other side? > > Thanks, > > Peter > > -Original Message- > From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Yinan Wang > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 7:08 PM > To: METEORITE LIST > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Celtic coin depicting comet? > > Better picture, of two of the coins. > > Ya, open to interpretation. > > http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000b01z6 > > -Yinan > > On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 5:40 PM, tett wrote: >> Or a fish jumping out of the water. >> >> That would be cool should this turn out to be a shooting star or > meteoroid. >> >> Cheers! >> >> Mike Tettenborn >> Also porud owner of some NWA 6292 >> >> >> >> >> On 28/09/2010 4:58 PM, Yinan Wang wrote: >>> >>> Just trying to get some opinions. I recently got a batch of celtic >>> coins from a french hoard in trade for some fossils. >>> >>> Two of the coins seem to have some interesting symbolism; what appears >>> to be a comet over two mountains. >>> >>> Or perhaps that my interpretation. >>> >>> See for yourself; >>> http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000azspb >>> >>> Feedback? I'll try to get some better pictures later. >>> >>> -Yinan >>> __ >>> Visit the Archives at >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> >> > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite eBook Opinions Sought
Sounds like a more than fair price to me. I have paid waay more than that for some of my other collection books. -- From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 6:04 PM To: "Kevin Kichinka" Cc: Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite eBook Opinions Sought Hi Kevin, I'd pay $26.95 for your book. But I don't represent the average collector because I am also a bibliophile and collected books long before I got into meteorites. To this luddite, ebooks will never replace having a real book in my hand. I have no idea what an ebook copy would be worth. But I can say that I would pay half the cover price of the real book for a file that I can read on my laptop. Given a choice, I'll always choose the real book over the electronic version. Having already purchased your book (and read it several times), I consider it a mainstay of the field of collecting. Every collector should have your book, the Jensens' book (for catalogue purposes), Rocks from Space, Encyclopedia of Meteorites, and Cosmic Debris. No meteorite bookshelf is complete without those volumes as an anchor. `:) Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 9/28/10, Kevin Kichinka wrote: Many of you on the list have purchased, and hopefully enjoyed, my book "The Art of Collecting Meteorites". It was self-published in 2005. When it was still just a dream no publisher found my proffered synopsis worthy of consideration. After I had sold hundreds of copies I re-submitted the actual book to a dozen publishers. Most rejected it, and the couple that were interested wanted to change the title, change the cover, delete many photos, eliminate "color" illustrations and diminish the quality of the paper it was written on. For this, I would net about $1 per sold copy. Unpalatable. I'm down to about twenty copies (Blaine Reed also has a few left for sale) and have considered having the printer, Bookmasters, run off a hundred more so I can continue to fill orders. Otherwise "we will turn the final page" (pun intended) and it will go "out of print" soon. The cost of this small run is so high that I would need to charge $26.95 for a book that has sold since 2005 for $21.95 to earn the same slim profit margin. I am looking for learned opinions from the people who have or could be the end users, the fine people who are avid meteorite aficionados on this meteorite bulletin board. 1. Are there any buyers in these difficult times for a 232 page all-color, high-quality paperback book priced at $26.95? 2. Would anyone purchase the same book for $13 (half-price) to be read on their computer in a pdf (Adobe) format? 3. Would anyone purchase this to be read as an eBook (Apple) or from Amazon (Kindle)? How much is "The Art of Collecting Meteorites" worth to you in these formats? Your opinions will play a great part in my decision. Regards from Nine Degrees North Kevin Kichinka (mars...@gmail.com) __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
Greg H and Listers, I think the first secret about the NWA 5400 meteorite might be to unlock the CRE age, then I think that can support one theory or scratch one theory off and look at the other theories that have been present about NWA 5400. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340 [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !Greg Hupe gmhupe at htn.net Tue Sep 28 19:30:14 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Next message: [meteorite-list] Planetary Pairings...Whoops! Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hello Shawn and List, Shawn wrote: "Greg H you say that O isotope is the only factor to determine pairing... your wrong there are other factors with paring meteorites. Some body told me this" Yes, I said that oxygen IS needed to determine a pairing to NWA 5400, as was explained to me by the lead scientists. My comments have never been about any other meteorites when referring to the ongoing NWA 5400 pairing saga. Shawn wrote: "...I have a dieing question What is the CRE of NWA 5400?" I do not know this answer. Samples of NWA 5400 were shipped to many different labs around the world where scientists are continuing to unlock the secrets of this most unique meteorite. Hope everyone has a great evening, for me, it is time to enjoy a pleasant meal! Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault - Original Message - From: "Shawn Alan" To: Cc: ; Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 6:34 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Mike G and Greg H and Listers, Mike G great point about how exclusivity is misconstrued with NWAs and before you know it, you have multiple pairs. Good example, NWA 2999, yeah there is a lot of pairs with that one and some say that the other pairs don't me squat and only buy the real deal. So you see that's where the problem lies with price points and collecting NWA's. I personally from a collectors stand point only collect some NWAs that I deem fit, Lunars and Mars and a couple others, but for the most part, I stay away and let the scientist do their work. But for other meteorites, I go for the historic ones and rare types with real importance, not ones that have multiple meteorite from the same parent body but with slight differences in composition. Greg H you say that O isotope is the only factor to determine pairing... your wrong there are other factors with paring meteorites. Some body told me this " O isotopes don't "prove" that one specimen is matched with another. It is certainly possible that two separate but related meteorites will have very similar O-isotopic compositions. They also could have similar olivine Fa compositions, similar refractory lithophile abundances, etc. It is certainly very suggestive of pairing if the textures, compositions (chemical and isotopic), and CRE ages match. But more supportive would be the terrestrial residence ages, i.e., if they fell at around the same time. The best proof of pairing is if the different samples fit together." So you see there are other factors involved with pairing and I have a dieing question What is the CRE of NWA 5400? If it came from Earth 4 billion years ago that you suggested, wouldn't the CRE be around 4 billion years? I heard that the oldest CRE to this date for a stoney meteorite is around 100 million years. I find it odd that this hasn't been test when this test is simple compared to other test to prove it might have a connection to Earth. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340 [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Galactic Stone & Ironworks meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 17:20:58 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Next message: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hi Greg and List, I wasn't trying to take a shot at anyone. But the marketplace has changed, even in the brief 3 years I have been active on it. There was a time, not long ago, that the number of stateside dealers who bought directly from the Moroccan sources could be counted on two hands - not counting buying from a wholesaler at a show like Tucson. 10 years ago, how many people were wiring money to the Moroccans for Fed-Ex packages full of meteorites that were destined for resale? I would wager that it was not very many compared to now. On Facebook alone, there are no less than 2 dozen overseas and Moroccan
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hunters go far afield/New radar post
Right now is not a good time, the fields are only starting to be harvested. And they just had a really high profile murder and everyone was really on edge and sold nearly 100 handguns in the past few weeks or so. They caught the guy today, so it should be a little easier hunt. I will be heading back in mid Oct. We got the word out pretty good and are having people come forward with meteorwrongs, but soon maybe the real thing. Let's keep our fingers crossed. Tim and Karl did a lot of footwork which could result in a new IL meteorite. Best Joe kerchner Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: "Linton Rohr" Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 16:56:26 To: Rob Wesel Cc: Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hunters go far afield/New radar post Good article, Rob. Thanks for posting it. And kudos to Marc for bringing this fall to light! I'm trying to arrange a family visit for Thanksgiving, and my folks live just 2-3 hours south of there. I'll have to allow a few extra days, so I can drive up and give it a shot. Linton - Original Message - From: "Rob Wesel" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 11:52 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hunters go far afield > Best of luck to our two, now three with Joe, intrepid searchers! > > A find would punctuate this story so perfectly. > > http://www.myjournalcourier.com/news/hunters-29122-meteorite-afield.html > > Rob Wesel > www.nakhladogmeteorites.com > www.facebook.com/Nakhla.Dog.Meteorites > www.facebook.com/Rob.Wesel > -- > We are the music makers... > and we are the dreamers of the dreams. > Willy Wonka, 1971 > > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite eBook Opinions Sought
Aloha Kevin, Mike, Bernd, list, I am a happy owner of a "The Art of Collecting Meteorites" book, one of many dozens on meteorites that I have in my library. I agree with Bernd that I would not like many photos deleted, color illustrations eliminated or the quality of paper diminished. I love books, and to have a tangible reference at my disposal is indispensable. I suppose eBooks serve a purpose, but to this old school collector, I just don't like reading things on a computer monitor. I also hope that in the future, books like "The Art of Collecting Meteorites" will continue to be available to new collectors and students of those intriguing black rocks. gary On Sep 28, 2010, at 11:31 AM, Kevin Kichinka wrote: > Many of you on the list have purchased, and hopefully enjoyed, my book > "The Art of Collecting Meteorites". It was self-published in 2005. > When it was still just a dream no publisher found my proffered > synopsis worthy of consideration. After I had sold hundreds of copies > I re-submitted the actual book to a dozen publishers. Most rejected > it, and the couple that were interested wanted to change the title, > change the cover, delete many photos, eliminate "color" illustrations > and diminish the quality of the paper it was written on. For this, I > would net about $1 per sold copy. Unpalatable. > > I'm down to about twenty copies (Blaine Reed also has a few left for > sale) and have considered having the printer, Bookmasters, run off a > hundred more so I can continue to fill orders. Otherwise "we will turn > the final page" (pun intended) and it will go "out of print" soon. The > cost of this small run is so high that I would need to charge $26.95 > for a book that has sold since 2005 for $21.95 to earn the same slim > profit margin. > > I am looking for learned opinions from the people who have or could be > the end users, the fine people who are avid meteorite aficionados on > this meteorite bulletin board. > > 1. Are there any buyers in these difficult times for a 232 page > all-color, high-quality paperback book priced at $26.95? > > 2. Would anyone purchase the same book for $13 (half-price) to be read > on their computer in a pdf (Adobe) format? > > 3. Would anyone purchase this to be read as an eBook (Apple) or from > Amazon (Kindle)? How much is "The Art of Collecting Meteorites" worth > to you in these formats? > > Your opinions will play a great part in my decision. > > Regards from Nine Degrees North > > Kevin Kichinka (mars...@gmail.com) > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Gary Fujihara Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693) 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/ http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html (808) 640-9161 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hunters go far afield/New radar post
Good article, Rob. Thanks for posting it. And kudos to Marc for bringing this fall to light! I'm trying to arrange a family visit for Thanksgiving, and my folks live just 2-3 hours south of there. I'll have to allow a few extra days, so I can drive up and give it a shot. Linton - Original Message - From: "Rob Wesel" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 11:52 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hunters go far afield Best of luck to our two, now three with Joe, intrepid searchers! A find would punctuate this story so perfectly. http://www.myjournalcourier.com/news/hunters-29122-meteorite-afield.html Rob Wesel www.nakhladogmeteorites.com www.facebook.com/Nakhla.Dog.Meteorites www.facebook.com/Rob.Wesel -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
Hello Shawn and List, Shawn wrote: "Greg H you say that O isotope is the only factor to determine pairing... your wrong there are other factors with paring meteorites. Some body told me this" Yes, I said that oxygen IS needed to determine a pairing to NWA 5400, as was explained to me by the lead scientists. My comments have never been about any other meteorites when referring to the ongoing NWA 5400 pairing saga. Shawn wrote: "...I have a dieing question What is the CRE of NWA 5400?" I do not know this answer. Samples of NWA 5400 were shipped to many different labs around the world where scientists are continuing to unlock the secrets of this most unique meteorite. Hope everyone has a great evening, for me, it is time to enjoy a pleasant meal! Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmh...@htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault - Original Message - From: "Shawn Alan" To: Cc: ; Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 6:34 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Mike G and Greg H and Listers, Mike G great point about how exclusivity is misconstrued with NWAs and before you know it, you have multiple pairs. Good example, NWA 2999, yeah there is a lot of pairs with that one and some say that the other pairs don't me squat and only buy the real deal. So you see that's where the problem lies with price points and collecting NWA's. I personally from a collectors stand point only collect some NWAs that I deem fit, Lunars and Mars and a couple others, but for the most part, I stay away and let the scientist do their work. But for other meteorites, I go for the historic ones and rare types with real importance, not ones that have multiple meteorite from the same parent body but with slight differences in composition. Greg H you say that O isotope is the only factor to determine pairing... your wrong there are other factors with paring meteorites. Some body told me this " O isotopes don't "prove" that one specimen is matched with another. It is certainly possible that two separate but related meteorites will have very similar O-isotopic compositions. They also could have similar olivine Fa compositions, similar refractory lithophile abundances, etc. It is certainly very suggestive of pairing if the textures, compositions (chemical and isotopic), and CRE ages match. But more supportive would be the terrestrial residence ages, i.e., if they fell at around the same time. The best proof of pairing is if the different samples fit together." So you see there are other factors involved with pairing and I have a dieing question What is the CRE of NWA 5400? If it came from Earth 4 billion years ago that you suggested, wouldn't the CRE be around 4 billion years? I heard that the oldest CRE to this date for a stoney meteorite is around 100 million years. I find it odd that this hasn't been test when this test is simple compared to other test to prove it might have a connection to Earth. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340 [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Galactic Stone & Ironworks meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 17:20:58 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Next message: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hi Greg and List, I wasn't trying to take a shot at anyone. But the marketplace has changed, even in the brief 3 years I have been active on it. There was a time, not long ago, that the number of stateside dealers who bought directly from the Moroccan sources could be counted on two hands - not counting buying from a wholesaler at a show like Tucson. 10 years ago, how many people were wiring money to the Moroccans for Fed-Ex packages full of meteorites that were destined for resale? I would wager that it was not very many compared to now. On Facebook alone, there are no less than 2 dozen overseas and Moroccan dealers who are selling directly to the end collector. These sellers know they can get more money for their stones by selling to a newbie dealer or end collector, than selling to a veteran dealer. I wasn't taking a shot at NWA 5400 or the Hupes. I think that nowadays, any meteorite that is offered to one dealer, is going to be offered to several dealers and collectors - to maximize profit. Our overseas friends are eager students of capitalism and they are simply applying the same lessons they have learned after years of watching their stones get sold for pennies on the dollar and then flipped onto the market of end collectors for a profit. This is happening more and more now. Speaking from personal experience, I hav
[meteorite-list] WTB - old meteorite letters, documents, etc.
Dear List, I am looking to buy old original letters, documents, price lists, etc., related to meteorites and early meteoritics. Shoot me an email offlist if you have anything that might fit that description. Thank you, Mike Bandli -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Celtic coin depicting comet?
Better picture, of two of the coins. Ya, open to interpretation. http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000b01z6 -Yinan On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 5:40 PM, tett wrote: > Or a fish jumping out of the water. > > That would be cool should this turn out to be a shooting star or meteoroid. > > Cheers! > > Mike Tettenborn > Also porud owner of some NWA 6292 > > > > > On 28/09/2010 4:58 PM, Yinan Wang wrote: >> >> Just trying to get some opinions. I recently got a batch of celtic >> coins from a french hoard in trade for some fossils. >> >> Two of the coins seem to have some interesting symbolism; what appears >> to be a comet over two mountains. >> >> Or perhaps that my interpretation. >> >> See for yourself; >> http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000azspb >> >> Feedback? I'll try to get some better pictures later. >> >> -Yinan >> __ >> Visit the Archives at >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Planetary Pairings...Whoops
Though I wrote it privately... ;-) But especially the lunars and Martians, which are always checked, if they are paired, there one can see well, that there is no rule, that no stone comes alone from NWA. Some have immediate pairings, from some every few years another sample surfaces, others there suddenly after a long break of many years more comes to light. So far unpaired NWA-Martians are: NWA 817 NWA 856 NWA 998 NWA 1195 NWA 1669 NWA 1950 NWA 2046 NWA 2626 NWA 2646 NWA 2737 NWA 2800 NWA 3137 NWA 4222 NWA 4468 NWA 4480 NWA 4797 NWA 5029 NWA 5289 NWA 5718 NWA 5789 NWA 5990 NWA 6162 So from the 28 different NWA-Martian, there are only 6 which build up a pairing group. 22 are unpaired. Moon: Unpaired: NWA 482 NWA 2200 NWA 2998 NWA 3163 NWA 4734 NWA 4819 NWA 4884 NWA 4898 NWA 4932 NWA 5000 NWA 5153 NWA 5207 NWA 5744 (The NWA 773 - Anoual I lumped together) So there 13 out of 19 unpaired. Well, and as far as the general rareness of NWAs compared to historical finds/falls is concerned. To me it seems, that the NWAs in general - also if you take paired numbers together - have on average a much smaller tkw than non-desert-finds. Well one would need some ling winter-evenings to verify that. Though sometimes - tiny fragments, without any crust, non-magnetic achrondites - e.g. some of the Martians from the NWA 2975 - or if you remember the tiny peas of the NWA 1068 group, looking like sandstone. For me it's a sheer riddle, how you can find such pieces at all! Crawling on my knees through the field, I wouldn't find them. Or cause we just had it NWA 4485, NWA 4472 - all around a fat weathering crust, white like chalk. Who the heck would ever pick up such a stone from the field and suspect it to be a meteorite? It is truly amazing, what the hunters do down there. Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Greg Hupe [mailto:gmh...@htn.net] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 29. September 2010 00:26 An: Martin Altmann Cc: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Planetary Pairings...Whoops Martin wrote: "St 4472 has 4485 as pair..." Whoops! My misstake, Martin is absolutley correct, NWA 4485 is paired to NWA 4472...Now I feel like a "KREEP"! lol GregH -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg Hupe Gesendet: Dienstag, 28. September 2010 23:58 An: Galactic Stone & Ironworks Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Hi MikeG and List Your points are well taken. You are correct in that the Internet has opened up the world for direct communication and sales, not only for meteorites, but everything on Earth (and new visitors from space)! That is a good thing! This is not the point of discussion in this thread, but a good subject all the same. Getting back on track...Here are just a couple examples of single-stone NWA meteorites with zero pairings: NWA 482 Lunar (its been over 10 years since its discovery) NWA 998 Martian (one stone with a few interlocking pieces) NWA 1195 Martian (one stone in two pieces) NWA 1459 Olivine Diogenite skipping ahead a little... NWA 4468 Martian NWA 4472 Lunar NWA 5000 Lunar and the list goes on, and these are only a couple of single-stone NWA classifications we have dealt with. I should have written in my first reply, "...discovered by me, Adam and others throughout [time with the help of finders like nomads in the case of some NWA's]." With all of the different nomads, NWA dealers and foreign hunters in Northwest Africa, any 'pairings' would have certainly appeared by now, especially considering planetary meteorites where the original finders went back time and time again without further finds, like in the case of NWA 482, being the oldest in my list above. People complain about "no strewnfield information" when it comes to NWA's, but since the NWA finders DO keep track of their find data, they are able to find more of a meteorite, IF there is more to be found. I would venture to say that the NWA data will come out eventually once the hunters there decide to release it. Sure we may never receive this data from some of the NWA finders, but I would hope the more responsible people in NWA will encourage their friends to offer up this data eventually, adding to the scientific 'value' of the strewnfield. Time will tell... Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmh...@htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault - Original Message - From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" To: "Greg Hupe" Cc: "Meteorites USA" ; Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! > Hi Greg and List, > > I wasn't trying to take a shot at anyone. But the marketplace has
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 2999 Pairings [was: NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !]
Not exactly... The age of the solar system has been refigured based on a meteorite. The letters NWA are irrelevant.. ;) Eric On 9/28/2010 3:29 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: As someone mentioned earlier in this discussion, the age of the solar system itself has now been called into question because of an NWA meteorite __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
Bernd wrote: I don't collect meteorites for investment but for the pure joy of holding a piece from the depths of the solar system (and beyond) in my hands and study it (visually and microscopically). Bravo Bernd. It is your love for these stones that has inspired me to enrich my knowledge (and collection) of meteorites. If I were to worry about the money side of things then I am sure my passion would die. Mike Tettenborn Deutschland in zwei Wochen! __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Celtic coin depicting comet?
Or a fish jumping out of the water. That would be cool should this turn out to be a shooting star or meteoroid. Cheers! Mike Tettenborn Also porud owner of some NWA 6292 On 28/09/2010 4:58 PM, Yinan Wang wrote: Just trying to get some opinions. I recently got a batch of celtic coins from a french hoard in trade for some fossils. Two of the coins seem to have some interesting symbolism; what appears to be a comet over two mountains. Or perhaps that my interpretation. See for yourself; http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000azspb Feedback? I'll try to get some better pictures later. -Yinan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Planetary Pairings...Whoops!
Martin wrote: "St 4472 has 4485 as pair..." Whoops! My misstake, Martin is absolutley correct, NWA 4485 is paired to NWA 4472...Now I feel like a "KREEP"! lol GregH -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg Hupe Gesendet: Dienstag, 28. September 2010 23:58 An: Galactic Stone & Ironworks Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Hi MikeG and List Your points are well taken. You are correct in that the Internet has opened up the world for direct communication and sales, not only for meteorites, but everything on Earth (and new visitors from space)! That is a good thing! This is not the point of discussion in this thread, but a good subject all the same. Getting back on track...Here are just a couple examples of single-stone NWA meteorites with zero pairings: NWA 482 Lunar (its been over 10 years since its discovery) NWA 998 Martian (one stone with a few interlocking pieces) NWA 1195 Martian (one stone in two pieces) NWA 1459 Olivine Diogenite skipping ahead a little... NWA 4468 Martian NWA 4472 Lunar NWA 5000 Lunar and the list goes on, and these are only a couple of single-stone NWA classifications we have dealt with. I should have written in my first reply, "...discovered by me, Adam and others throughout [time with the help of finders like nomads in the case of some NWA's]." With all of the different nomads, NWA dealers and foreign hunters in Northwest Africa, any 'pairings' would have certainly appeared by now, especially considering planetary meteorites where the original finders went back time and time again without further finds, like in the case of NWA 482, being the oldest in my list above. People complain about "no strewnfield information" when it comes to NWA's, but since the NWA finders DO keep track of their find data, they are able to find more of a meteorite, IF there is more to be found. I would venture to say that the NWA data will come out eventually once the hunters there decide to release it. Sure we may never receive this data from some of the NWA finders, but I would hope the more responsible people in NWA will encourage their friends to offer up this data eventually, adding to the scientific 'value' of the strewnfield. Time will tell... Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmh...@htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault - Original Message - From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" To: "Greg Hupe" Cc: "Meteorites USA" ; Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Hi Greg and List, I wasn't trying to take a shot at anyone. But the marketplace has changed, even in the brief 3 years I have been active on it. There was a time, not long ago, that the number of stateside dealers who bought directly from the Moroccan sources could be counted on two hands - not counting buying from a wholesaler at a show like Tucson. 10 years ago, how many people were wiring money to the Moroccans for Fed-Ex packages full of meteorites that were destined for resale? I would wager that it was not very many compared to now. On Facebook alone, there are no less than 2 dozen overseas and Moroccan dealers who are selling directly to the end collector. These sellers know they can get more money for their stones by selling to a newbie dealer or end collector, than selling to a veteran dealer. I wasn't taking a shot at NWA 5400 or the Hupes. I think that nowadays, any meteorite that is offered to one dealer, is going to be offered to several dealers and collectors - to maximize profit. Our overseas friends are eager students of capitalism and they are simply applying the same lessons they have learned after years of watching their stones get sold for pennies on the dollar and then flipped onto the market of end collectors for a profit. This is happening more and more now. Speaking from personal experience, I have now processed (sliced and polished) a new NWA meteorite from 2 independent Moroccan sources. Guess what? It's the same meteorite and there is a 3rd dealer offering this same material. All 3 meteorites are exactly the same and have 3 different NWA numbers. Of course, I am making a casual pairing based on handling the material and I cannot say for certain they are exactly the same without microprobe and/or O-isotope. But from talking to these dealers, each one had no idea that other dealers were being offered the same material. Each one thought they were getting an exclusive deal. If I am an overseas source, I know I will get more money per gram for my stones if I sell them to a collector on Facebook versus selling them to a seasoned dealer like Ad
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
Mike G and Greg H and Listers, Mike G great point about how exclusivity is misconstrued with NWAs and before you know it, you have multiple pairs. Good example, NWA 2999, yeah there is a lot of pairs with that one and some say that the other pairs don't me squat and only buy the real deal. So you see that's where the problem lies with price points and collecting NWA's. I personally from a collectors stand point only collect some NWAs that I deem fit, Lunars and Mars and a couple others, but for the most part, I stay away and let the scientist do their work. But for other meteorites, I go for the historic ones and rare types with real importance, not ones that have multiple meteorite from the same parent body but with slight differences in composition. Greg H you say that O isotope is the only factor to determine pairing... your wrong there are other factors with paring meteorites. Some body told me this " O isotopes don't "prove" that one specimen is matched with another. It is certainly possible that two separate but related meteorites will have very similar O-isotopic compositions. They also could have similar olivine Fa compositions, similar refractory lithophile abundances, etc. It is certainly very suggestive of pairing if the textures, compositions (chemical and isotopic), and CRE ages match. But more supportive would be the terrestrial residence ages, i.e., if they fell at around the same time. The best proof of pairing is if the different samples fit together." So you see there are other factors involved with pairing and I have a dieing question What is the CRE of NWA 5400? If it came from Earth 4 billion years ago that you suggested, wouldn't the CRE be around 4 billion years? I heard that the oldest CRE to this date for a stoney meteorite is around 100 million years. I find it odd that this hasn't been test when this test is simple compared to other test to prove it might have a connection to Earth. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340 [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Galactic Stone & Ironworks meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 17:20:58 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Next message: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hi Greg and List, I wasn't trying to take a shot at anyone. But the marketplace has changed, even in the brief 3 years I have been active on it. There was a time, not long ago, that the number of stateside dealers who bought directly from the Moroccan sources could be counted on two hands - not counting buying from a wholesaler at a show like Tucson. 10 years ago, how many people were wiring money to the Moroccans for Fed-Ex packages full of meteorites that were destined for resale? I would wager that it was not very many compared to now. On Facebook alone, there are no less than 2 dozen overseas and Moroccan dealers who are selling directly to the end collector. These sellers know they can get more money for their stones by selling to a newbie dealer or end collector, than selling to a veteran dealer. I wasn't taking a shot at NWA 5400 or the Hupes. I think that nowadays, any meteorite that is offered to one dealer, is going to be offered to several dealers and collectors - to maximize profit. Our overseas friends are eager students of capitalism and they are simply applying the same lessons they have learned after years of watching their stones get sold for pennies on the dollar and then flipped onto the market of end collectors for a profit. This is happening more and more now. Speaking from personal experience, I have now processed (sliced and polished) a new NWA meteorite from 2 independent Moroccan sources. Guess what? It's the same meteorite and there is a 3rd dealer offering this same material. All 3 meteorites are exactly the same and have 3 different NWA numbers. Of course, I am making a casual pairing based on handling the material and I cannot say for certain they are exactly the same without microprobe and/or O-isotope. But from talking to these dealers, each one had no idea that other dealers were being offered the same material. Each one thought they were getting an exclusive deal. If I am an overseas source, I know I will get more money per gram for my stones if I sell them to a collector on Facebook versus selling them to a seasoned dealer like Adam or Greg. Now that this fact is well known, the genie is out of the bottle. Exclusivity for NWA finds is dead. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.co
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 2999 Pairings [was: NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !]
NOTE: When a core sample was requested of NWA 4931 because of its larger physical size, I agreed to let scientists at MIT take a 1/2" x 3" deep core sample to perform magnetic analysis to try and get a better understanding of the angrite parent body. At the risk of losing aesthetic 'value' to having a three inch hole drilled into the side of this beautiful meteorite, I was more than happy to allow it. There are a small couple of people on this List who always bring up, "Its always dollars, money, etc." Pity they have no clue what motivates me! That is awesome. Straight up awesome. And nobody can knock you or Adam for providing scientific access to specimens. This is that part of private involvement in meteorites that benefits everyone and if more people incorporated this mentality into their passion for meteorites, there would be less opposition to our private involvement. That core sample is something MIT would not have gotten to do unless someone found that stone in the desert, removed it, sold it to someone who had it tested and made it available. Who knows what more secrets can be unlocked from these NWA stones? As someone mentioned earlier in this discussion, the age of the solar system itself has now been called into question because of an NWA meteorite. :) Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 9/28/10, Greg Hupe wrote: > Hi Zelimir and List, > > I think we are lucky that there is a combined total of ~6kg of NWA 2999 and > pairings. As you commented: > "(Note 1: G. Hupé had all the 12 fragments analyzed [of NWA 2999], which is > a sign of a serious work)" > > Another note which most people do not know is that I also submitted a full > type sample for these later pairings of NWA 2999 which I was lucky to get: > NWA 3158 > NWA 4931 > > NOTE: When a core sample was requested of NWA 4931 because of its larger > physical size, I agreed to let scientists at MIT take a 1/2" x 3" deep core > sample to perform magnetic analysis to try and get a better understanding of > the angrite parent body. At the risk of losing aesthetic 'value' to having a > three inch hole drilled into the side of this beautiful meteorite, I was > more than happy to allow it. There are a small couple of people on this List > who always bring up, "Its always dollars, money, etc." Pity they have no > clue what motivates me! > > Best regards, > Greg > > > Greg Hupe > The Hupe Collection > NaturesVault (eBay) > gmh...@htn.net > www.LunarRock.com > IMCA 3163 > > Click here for my current eBay auctions: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > - Original Message - > From: "Zelimir Gabelica" > To: "Shawn Alan" ; > > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 4:21 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! > > > Hi Alanj, list, > > From my files, NWA 2999 has quite many pairings. > Here is my general write up for this meteorite > with a compilation of its recognized pairings > (updated 2009 so possibly not complete): > - > NWA 2999 (Morocco, Angrite), found 2004. > Purchased Tagounite (G. Hupé). TKW: 1...@312 g. > Angrite with plutonic texture as Angra dos Reis. > Mercury origin questioned but not conclusive (Weir). > (Note 1: G. Hupé had all the 12 fragments > analyzed, which is a sign of a serious work) > > Paired with NWA 3158 (1...@681 g), NWA 3164 (4...@928 > g), NWA 4569 (m...@484 g), NWA 4662 (1...@62 g), NWA > 4877 (1...@1000 g), NWA 4931 (2...@2140 g) and > NWA 6291 (1...@250 g). Cumulated tkw: 6...@5937 g. > (Note 2. Weir suggests NWA 2836 is also paired > but the Met. Bull database report the type of NWA 2836 as being LL3.7) > -- > > Best to all, > > Zelimir > > > > At 17:45 28/09/2010, Shawn Alan wrote: >> >>Adam wrote: >> >>*** >> >>This issue is not unique to NWA meteorites. The same thing could be said >>for >>Antarctic or other desert finds. Yes, Antarctica is a desert. The same >>issue >>applies to falls. How much Allende is really out >>there? Nobody knows for sure, >>the same can be said for Murchison. You can make >>the same claim for just about >>any fall. >> >>*** >> >>Adam the difference between NWAs and all the >>other falls is that NWA nobody knows where the >>strewn fields are. As for the rest, there is >>data on strewn fields and correct documentation >>that is used to asses the fall or find. >
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
Hi Greg and List, Thanks for the schooling on non-paired NWA finds. Yes, there are some outstanding specimens like NWA 482 that sit atop a lonely perch with no pairings. We are now approaching 7000 NWA meteorites, and it's going to be a long time before all of the data is compared. As Martin and others said, we see many more pairings with planetaries because those are the most studied. No lab is investing time and money to comb the NWA catalogue looking for pairings, especially amongst ordinary chondrites. It would be interesting to see how many of the almost 7000 NWA meteorites are actually paired and perhaps someday that information will become available - it would make a nice project for a team of bored scientists and grad students. I think as time goes on, we will see more redundant NWA numbers. The number of unpaired finds will probably remain steady, but the proliferation of the internet and the market into other parts of the world has greatly changed the supply part of the equation. I'm not trying to speak for anyone here, and if I am off-base, somebody correct me, but if I am sitting in Morocco and I have a sack full of meteorites that I suspect are a scarce type with a good monetary value, then I am not going to offer them all to one buyer at one price. I am going to shop them around and try to get the most profit I can for those specimens. Now, I can sit in an internet cafe or borrow my uncle's laptop, and offer those specimens to anyone in the US, Europe or the world, at any price I decide to charge. In fact, I can give different prices to different buyers based on the situation. I am no longer limited to offering my specimens to tourists, dealers who visit Morocco, and a small group of buyers that I have dealt with previously. I can sell to complete and total strangers for top dollar. It is an interesting dynamic to watch play out as the internet, social networking, and meteorites come together. It has good effects and bad effects on the market, depending on where the fickle winds are blowing for that day. In general, I guess it means the price is going up. If the NWA situation had peaked before the creation of the internet, the market would not have been as dramatically effected, methinks. Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 9/28/10, Greg Hupe wrote: > Hi MikeG and List > > Your points are well taken. You are correct in that the Internet has opened > up the world for direct communication and sales, not only for meteorites, > but everything on Earth (and new visitors from space)! That is a good thing! > This is not the point of discussion in this thread, but a good subject all > the same. > > Getting back on track...Here are just a couple examples of single-stone NWA > meteorites with zero pairings: > > NWA 482 Lunar (its been over 10 years since its discovery) > NWA 998 Martian (one stone with a few interlocking pieces) > NWA 1195 Martian (one stone in two pieces) > NWA 1459 Olivine Diogenite > skipping ahead a little... > NWA 4468 Martian > NWA 4472 Lunar > NWA 5000 Lunar > and the list goes on, and these are only a couple of single-stone NWA > classifications we have dealt with. I should have written in my first reply, > "...discovered by me, Adam and others throughout [time with the help of > finders like nomads in the case of some NWA's]." > > With all of the different nomads, NWA dealers and foreign hunters in > Northwest Africa, any 'pairings' would have certainly appeared by now, > especially considering planetary meteorites where the original finders went > back time and time again without further finds, like in the case of NWA 482, > being the oldest in my list above. People complain about "no strewnfield > information" when it comes to NWA's, but since the NWA finders DO keep track > of their find data, they are able to find more of a meteorite, IF there is > more to be found. I would venture to say that the NWA data will come out > eventually once the hunters there decide to release it. Sure we may never > receive this data from some of the NWA finders, but I would hope the more > responsible people in NWA will encourage their friends to offer up this data > eventually, adding to the scientific 'value' of the strewnfield. Time will > tell... > > Best regards, > Greg > > > Greg Hupe > The Hupe Collection > NaturesVault (eBay) > gmh...@htn.net > www.LunarRock.com > IMCA 3163 > > Click here for my current eBay auctions: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnatures
[meteorite-list] NWA 2999 Pairings [was: NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !]
Hi Zelimir and List, I think we are lucky that there is a combined total of ~6kg of NWA 2999 and pairings. As you commented: "(Note 1: G. Hupé had all the 12 fragments analyzed [of NWA 2999], which is a sign of a serious work)" Another note which most people do not know is that I also submitted a full type sample for these later pairings of NWA 2999 which I was lucky to get: NWA 3158 NWA 4931 NOTE: When a core sample was requested of NWA 4931 because of its larger physical size, I agreed to let scientists at MIT take a 1/2" x 3" deep core sample to perform magnetic analysis to try and get a better understanding of the angrite parent body. At the risk of losing aesthetic 'value' to having a three inch hole drilled into the side of this beautiful meteorite, I was more than happy to allow it. There are a small couple of people on this List who always bring up, "Its always dollars, money, etc." Pity they have no clue what motivates me! Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmh...@htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault - Original Message - From: "Zelimir Gabelica" To: "Shawn Alan" ; Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Hi Alanj, list, From my files, NWA 2999 has quite many pairings. Here is my general write up for this meteorite with a compilation of its recognized pairings (updated 2009 so possibly not complete): - NWA 2999 (Morocco, Angrite), found 2004. Purchased Tagounite (G. Hupé). TKW: 1...@312 g. Angrite with plutonic texture as Angra dos Reis. Mercury origin questioned but not conclusive (Weir). (Note 1: G. Hupé had all the 12 fragments analyzed, which is a sign of a serious work) Paired with NWA 3158 (1...@681 g), NWA 3164 (4...@928 g), NWA 4569 (m...@484 g), NWA 4662 (1...@62 g), NWA 4877 (1...@1000 g), NWA 4931 (2...@2140 g) and NWA 6291 (1...@250 g). Cumulated tkw: 6...@5937 g. (Note 2. Weir suggests NWA 2836 is also paired but the Met. Bull database report the type of NWA 2836 as being LL3.7) -- Best to all, Zelimir At 17:45 28/09/2010, Shawn Alan wrote: Adam wrote: *** This issue is not unique to NWA meteorites. The same thing could be said for Antarctic or other desert finds. Yes, Antarctica is a desert. The same issue applies to falls. How much Allende is really out there? Nobody knows for sure, the same can be said for Murchison. You can make the same claim for just about any fall. *** Adam the difference between NWAs and all the other falls is that NWA nobody knows where the strewn fields are. As for the rest, there is data on strewn fields and correct documentation that is used to asses the fall or find. But with a NWA I find that people say that only buy my NWA because its the real deal and the pairs are inferior. The problem with that is with NWAs are collected and through out the months or year the same meteorite gets recycled back to dealers and in a since every NWA stone has to be classified cause of the collection process. Good example is NWA 2999, I think this meteorite has 2 other pairings if not more and think how many pairs it will have in a few years from now? And another good example is NWA 5400 which could have a few pairs, which are very likely. Now when people bank of there NWA as being rare cause of low TKW it seems that it this could be misleading cause of the circumstances that NWAs present to science and they way they are collected. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340 [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !Adam Hupe raremeteorites at yahoo.com Tue Sep 28 09:22:26 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Next message: [meteorite-list] NEW RELEASE - The Day the Meteorite Fell in Sylacauga Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Shawn wrote: * Now the slight problem I have with NWA's is that you really don't know how much of that stuff is out there. That can work in your favor and against you. So lets say you found an NWA and its about 1000g and you get it tested and its a new NWN. Now you can say its rare because there is only 1000g, but do you really know that for sure? From what I have seen, its not the case, and NWAs keep getting paired with each other more time then not I think that's why I tend to stay away from NWA's for that reason and others. This issue is not unique to NWA meteorites
[meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
Hi Tim and List, "Please, ladies and gentlemen, don't denigrate those of us who say we collect for investment" No hard feelings, no denigration, of course, but I do remember that my passion for stamps began to wane when I started seeing a monetary value in my stamp collection. Money was always important when, as a youngster, I had to decide whether I should buy some new stamps from the money my parents gave me for our daily school ration of milk, a roll, and a small bar of chocolate. Very often I opted for the stamps but this was not profit-/business-oriented. The sole driving force was to acquire some more stamps that I didn't have yet and marvel at these little "pieces of paper". But when I started considering them as a means "to make money" ... the passion, the enthusiam was gone. I don't collect meteorites for investment but for the pure joy of holding a piece from the depths of the solar system (and beyond) in my hands and study it (visually and microscopically). As for investment, most of us will know that collectibles seldom yield the financial value you have invested. When I started selling my stamps "to make money", I usually got about 1/3 (only) of the monetary value indicated for these stamps in catalogues (here in Germany this was the so-called "Michel Katalog" for those in the know). Whether NWA 6292 is paired to NWA 5400 or whether it isn't, doesn't really bother me. The thrill (for me) is that at least one of them plots directly on the TFL, whereas "run-off-the-mill" brachinites do not. And, on the TFL or below, NWA or "Brachina", a microscopic look at an acapulcoite, a lodranite, an angrite, a brachinite, a diogenite thin section (like NWA 6256) or a eucrite thin section like (NWA 1644 or NWA 6309) in cross-polarized light will blow your socks off - whether you like it or not. Cheers, Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite eBook Opinions Sought
Hi Kevin and List, I don't quite qualify re: opinions sought because I have my copy of this book on my shelf but I wouldn't want seeing: - many photos deleted, - color illustrations eliminated, - the quality of the paper diminished. And, I wouldn't need a pdf-format nor an eBook (Apple). I often read a bit in bed before falling asleep but I wouldn't want to fall asleep with my notebook in my arms :-) Best wishes, Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite eBook Opinions Sought
Hi Kevin, I'd pay $26.95 for your book. But I don't represent the average collector because I am also a bibliophile and collected books long before I got into meteorites. To this luddite, ebooks will never replace having a real book in my hand. I have no idea what an ebook copy would be worth. But I can say that I would pay half the cover price of the real book for a file that I can read on my laptop. Given a choice, I'll always choose the real book over the electronic version. Having already purchased your book (and read it several times), I consider it a mainstay of the field of collecting. Every collector should have your book, the Jensens' book (for catalogue purposes), Rocks from Space, Encyclopedia of Meteorites, and Cosmic Debris. No meteorite bookshelf is complete without those volumes as an anchor. `:) Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 9/28/10, Kevin Kichinka wrote: > Many of you on the list have purchased, and hopefully enjoyed, my book > "The Art of Collecting Meteorites". It was self-published in 2005. > When it was still just a dream no publisher found my proffered > synopsis worthy of consideration. After I had sold hundreds of copies > I re-submitted the actual book to a dozen publishers. Most rejected > it, and the couple that were interested wanted to change the title, > change the cover, delete many photos, eliminate "color" illustrations > and diminish the quality of the paper it was written on. For this, I > would net about $1 per sold copy. Unpalatable. > > I'm down to about twenty copies (Blaine Reed also has a few left for > sale) and have considered having the printer, Bookmasters, run off a > hundred more so I can continue to fill orders. Otherwise "we will turn > the final page" (pun intended) and it will go "out of print" soon. The > cost of this small run is so high that I would need to charge $26.95 > for a book that has sold since 2005 for $21.95 to earn the same slim > profit margin. > > I am looking for learned opinions from the people who have or could be > the end users, the fine people who are avid meteorite aficionados on > this meteorite bulletin board. > > 1. Are there any buyers in these difficult times for a 232 page > all-color, high-quality paperback book priced at $26.95? > > 2. Would anyone purchase the same book for $13 (half-price) to be read > on their computer in a pdf (Adobe) format? > > 3. Would anyone purchase this to be read as an eBook (Apple) or from > Amazon (Kindle)? How much is "The Art of Collecting Meteorites" worth > to you in these formats? > > Your opinions will play a great part in my decision. > > Regards from Nine Degrees North > > Kevin Kichinka (mars...@gmail.com) > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
Hi MikeG and List Your points are well taken. You are correct in that the Internet has opened up the world for direct communication and sales, not only for meteorites, but everything on Earth (and new visitors from space)! That is a good thing! This is not the point of discussion in this thread, but a good subject all the same. Getting back on track...Here are just a couple examples of single-stone NWA meteorites with zero pairings: NWA 482 Lunar (its been over 10 years since its discovery) NWA 998 Martian (one stone with a few interlocking pieces) NWA 1195 Martian (one stone in two pieces) NWA 1459 Olivine Diogenite skipping ahead a little... NWA 4468 Martian NWA 4472 Lunar NWA 5000 Lunar and the list goes on, and these are only a couple of single-stone NWA classifications we have dealt with. I should have written in my first reply, "...discovered by me, Adam and others throughout [time with the help of finders like nomads in the case of some NWA's]." With all of the different nomads, NWA dealers and foreign hunters in Northwest Africa, any 'pairings' would have certainly appeared by now, especially considering planetary meteorites where the original finders went back time and time again without further finds, like in the case of NWA 482, being the oldest in my list above. People complain about "no strewnfield information" when it comes to NWA's, but since the NWA finders DO keep track of their find data, they are able to find more of a meteorite, IF there is more to be found. I would venture to say that the NWA data will come out eventually once the hunters there decide to release it. Sure we may never receive this data from some of the NWA finders, but I would hope the more responsible people in NWA will encourage their friends to offer up this data eventually, adding to the scientific 'value' of the strewnfield. Time will tell... Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmh...@htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault - Original Message - From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" To: "Greg Hupe" Cc: "Meteorites USA" ; Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Hi Greg and List, I wasn't trying to take a shot at anyone. But the marketplace has changed, even in the brief 3 years I have been active on it. There was a time, not long ago, that the number of stateside dealers who bought directly from the Moroccan sources could be counted on two hands - not counting buying from a wholesaler at a show like Tucson. 10 years ago, how many people were wiring money to the Moroccans for Fed-Ex packages full of meteorites that were destined for resale? I would wager that it was not very many compared to now. On Facebook alone, there are no less than 2 dozen overseas and Moroccan dealers who are selling directly to the end collector. These sellers know they can get more money for their stones by selling to a newbie dealer or end collector, than selling to a veteran dealer. I wasn't taking a shot at NWA 5400 or the Hupes. I think that nowadays, any meteorite that is offered to one dealer, is going to be offered to several dealers and collectors - to maximize profit. Our overseas friends are eager students of capitalism and they are simply applying the same lessons they have learned after years of watching their stones get sold for pennies on the dollar and then flipped onto the market of end collectors for a profit. This is happening more and more now. Speaking from personal experience, I have now processed (sliced and polished) a new NWA meteorite from 2 independent Moroccan sources. Guess what? It's the same meteorite and there is a 3rd dealer offering this same material. All 3 meteorites are exactly the same and have 3 different NWA numbers. Of course, I am making a casual pairing based on handling the material and I cannot say for certain they are exactly the same without microprobe and/or O-isotope. But from talking to these dealers, each one had no idea that other dealers were being offered the same material. Each one thought they were getting an exclusive deal. If I am an overseas source, I know I will get more money per gram for my stones if I sell them to a collector on Facebook versus selling them to a seasoned dealer like Adam or Greg. Now that this fact is well known, the genie is out of the bottle. Exclusivity for NWA finds is dead. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id
[meteorite-list] Twice Blessed Yankee Lobsterman
Greetings to all from this brand new list newbie. Wondering if anyone has any info on a Maine coastal double meteorite "find" at Round Pond, Maine, that occurred several years ago? Seems a lobsterman was hauling his lobster boat up the public boat ramp and out of the water for the winter season, back in 1953. Happening to glance down at the ground at his feet and spied a 5 lb. 10 oz. meteorite quietly sunning itself on the rocky beach. A remarkable find and made all the more remarkable, perhaps, by the fact that the same lobsterman, 16 years later in 1969, hauling the same boat out of the same harbor, at the same public boat ramp, glanced down at his feet and found another meteorite, a 6 lb. 4 oz. beauty sunning itself, as well, midst the great slabs of metamorphosed granite and gneiss. Maine's only double meteorite find. I am trying to find-out what type and classification those two coastal sun bathing lobster loving meteorites are (were) and their eventual fate. Anyone knows the ultimate disposition of these two missing Maine lobsterized meteorites, please pass the butter, and let me know. Thanks. Best wishes, Dave Gunning __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite eBook Opinions Sought
Many of you on the list have purchased, and hopefully enjoyed, my book "The Art of Collecting Meteorites". It was self-published in 2005. When it was still just a dream no publisher found my proffered synopsis worthy of consideration. After I had sold hundreds of copies I re-submitted the actual book to a dozen publishers. Most rejected it, and the couple that were interested wanted to change the title, change the cover, delete many photos, eliminate "color" illustrations and diminish the quality of the paper it was written on. For this, I would net about $1 per sold copy. Unpalatable. I'm down to about twenty copies (Blaine Reed also has a few left for sale) and have considered having the printer, Bookmasters, run off a hundred more so I can continue to fill orders. Otherwise "we will turn the final page" (pun intended) and it will go "out of print" soon. The cost of this small run is so high that I would need to charge $26.95 for a book that has sold since 2005 for $21.95 to earn the same slim profit margin. I am looking for learned opinions from the people who have or could be the end users, the fine people who are avid meteorite aficionados on this meteorite bulletin board. 1. Are there any buyers in these difficult times for a 232 page all-color, high-quality paperback book priced at $26.95? 2. Would anyone purchase the same book for $13 (half-price) to be read on their computer in a pdf (Adobe) format? 3. Would anyone purchase this to be read as an eBook (Apple) or from Amazon (Kindle)? How much is "The Art of Collecting Meteorites" worth to you in these formats? Your opinions will play a great part in my decision. Regards from Nine Degrees North Kevin Kichinka (mars...@gmail.com) __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
Hi Alanj, list, From my files, NWA 2999 has quite many pairings. Here is my general write up for this meteorite with a compilation of its recognized pairings (updated 2009 so possibly not complete): - NWA 2999 (Morocco, Angrite), found 2004. Purchased Tagounite (G. Hupé). TKW: 1...@312 g. Angrite with plutonic texture as Angra dos Reis. Mercury origin questioned but not conclusive (Weir). (Note 1: G. Hupé had all the 12 fragments analyzed, which is a sign of a serious work) Paired with NWA 3158 (1...@681 g), NWA 3164 (4...@928 g), NWA 4569 (m...@484 g), NWA 4662 (1...@62 g), NWA 4877 (1...@1000 g), NWA 4931 (2...@2140 g) and NWA 6291 (1...@250 g). Cumulated tkw: 6...@5937 g. (Note 2. Weir suggests NWA 2836 is also paired but the Met. Bull database report the type of NWA 2836 as being LL3.7) -- Best to all, Zelimir At 17:45 28/09/2010, Shawn Alan wrote: Adam wrote: *** This issue is not unique to NWA meteorites. The same thing could be said for Antarctic or other desert finds. Yes, Antarctica is a desert. The same issue applies to falls. How much Allende is really out there? Nobody knows for sure, the same can be said for Murchison. You can make the same claim for just about any fall. *** Adam the difference between NWAs and all the other falls is that NWA nobody knows where the strewn fields are. As for the rest, there is data on strewn fields and correct documentation that is used to asses the fall or find. But with a NWA I find that people say that only buy my NWA because its the real deal and the pairs are inferior. The problem with that is with NWAs are collected and through out the months or year the same meteorite gets recycled back to dealers and in a since every NWA stone has to be classified cause of the collection process. Good example is NWA 2999, I think this meteorite has 2 other pairings if not more and think how many pairs it will have in a few years from now? And another good example is NWA 5400 which could have a few pairs, which are very likely. Now when people bank of there NWA as being rare cause of low TKW it seems that it this could be misleading cause of the circumstances that NWAs present to science and they way they are collected. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340 [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !Adam Hupe raremeteorites at yahoo.com Tue Sep 28 09:22:26 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Next message: [meteorite-list] NEW RELEASE - The Day the Meteorite Fell in Sylacauga Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Shawn wrote: * Now the slight problem I have with NWA's is that you really don't know how much of that stuff is out there. That can work in your favor and against you. So lets say you found an NWA and its about 1000g and you get it tested and its a new NWN. Now you can say its rare because there is only 1000g, but do you really know that for sure? From what I have seen, its not the case, and NWAs keep getting paired with each other more time then not I think that's why I tend to stay away from NWA's for that reason and others. This issue is not unique to NWA meteorites. The same thing could be said for Antarctic or other desert finds. Yes, Antarctica is a desert. The same issue applies to falls. How much Allende is really out there? Nobody knows for sure, the same can be said for Murchison. You can make the same claim for just about any fall. I have seen collectors financially burned on falls many times, myself among them. I have lost more value by collecting new falls than I have collecting finds. This is why I tend to stay away from new falls. The price drops off sharply within a few months once the initial excitement disappears. I lost a small fortune on New Orleans and Claxton by letting the market determine the value by putting them up for auction with no reserves. Happy Hunting, Long live the finds because without them we would have no lunar meteorites, Adam Previous message: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Next message: [meteorite-list] NEW RELEASE - The Day the Meteorite Fell in Sylacauga Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list Hello Greg S and Listers, Now the slight problem I have with NWA's is that you really don't know how much of that stuff is out there. That can work in your favor and against you. So lets say you found an NWA and its about 1000g and you get it tes
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
Hi Greg and List, I wasn't trying to take a shot at anyone. But the marketplace has changed, even in the brief 3 years I have been active on it. There was a time, not long ago, that the number of stateside dealers who bought directly from the Moroccan sources could be counted on two hands - not counting buying from a wholesaler at a show like Tucson. 10 years ago, how many people were wiring money to the Moroccans for Fed-Ex packages full of meteorites that were destined for resale? I would wager that it was not very many compared to now. On Facebook alone, there are no less than 2 dozen overseas and Moroccan dealers who are selling directly to the end collector. These sellers know they can get more money for their stones by selling to a newbie dealer or end collector, than selling to a veteran dealer. I wasn't taking a shot at NWA 5400 or the Hupes. I think that nowadays, any meteorite that is offered to one dealer, is going to be offered to several dealers and collectors - to maximize profit. Our overseas friends are eager students of capitalism and they are simply applying the same lessons they have learned after years of watching their stones get sold for pennies on the dollar and then flipped onto the market of end collectors for a profit. This is happening more and more now. Speaking from personal experience, I have now processed (sliced and polished) a new NWA meteorite from 2 independent Moroccan sources. Guess what? It's the same meteorite and there is a 3rd dealer offering this same material. All 3 meteorites are exactly the same and have 3 different NWA numbers. Of course, I am making a casual pairing based on handling the material and I cannot say for certain they are exactly the same without microprobe and/or O-isotope. But from talking to these dealers, each one had no idea that other dealers were being offered the same material. Each one thought they were getting an exclusive deal. If I am an overseas source, I know I will get more money per gram for my stones if I sell them to a collector on Facebook versus selling them to a seasoned dealer like Adam or Greg. Now that this fact is well known, the genie is out of the bottle. Exclusivity for NWA finds is dead. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 9/28/10, Greg Hupe wrote: > Hello Eric and All, > > MikeG wrote: > "So, if NWA 5400 turned up in the Hupe inventory, you can bet your bottom > dollar that the same meteorite will show up in other dealer inventories > under a different NWA number(s)." > > MikeG obviously made a hip-shot, knee-jerk uninformed comment. Considering > there are plenty of single stone classifications discovered by > me, Adam and other people throughtout. At least some people are finally > discussing that > in order to make an NWA 5400 pairing, oxygen isotope work MUST be > completed, period!! This has been my argument from Day 1 when "NWA 5363" was > claimed as a pairing without any oxygen work being performed! > People need to go back and re-read my very first announcement of NWA 5400, > and then my first comments about "NWA 5363". As mentioned in my last email > regarding this thread, I do not feel I need to keep harping on these facts. > I appreciate a few cool heads making these statements on their own, > refreshing to know a few people still understand the value of patience and > thorough work! > > Best regards, > Greg > > > Greg Hupe > The Hupe Collection > NaturesVault (eBay) > gmh...@htn.net > www.LunarRock.com > IMCA 3163 > > Click here for my current eBay auctions: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > - Original Message - > From: "Meteorites USA" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 4:15 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! > > >> What do you mean, am I reading this right? You assume because 1 person >> has a piece of a rare meteorite that it's an absolute that more of that >> meteorite exists? >> >> This certainly doesn't take into account single meteorite >> classifications at all. Are you saying the EVERY NWA ever classified has >> a pairing? Because that's what this sounds like. >> >> Regards, >> Eric >> >> >> On 9/28/2010 12:36 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: >>> So, if >>> NWA 5400 turned up in the Hupe inventory, you can bet your bottom >>> dollar that the same meteorite will show up in other dealer >>> inventories under a different NWA number(s). >> __ >> Visit the Archives at >> http://www.met
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
Hello Eric and All, MikeG wrote: "So, if NWA 5400 turned up in the Hupe inventory, you can bet your bottom dollar that the same meteorite will show up in other dealer inventories under a different NWA number(s)." MikeG obviously made a hip-shot, knee-jerk uninformed comment. Considering there are plenty of single stone classifications discovered by me, Adam and other people throughtout. At least some people are finally discussing that in order to make an NWA 5400 pairing, oxygen isotope work MUST be completed, period!! This has been my argument from Day 1 when "NWA 5363" was claimed as a pairing without any oxygen work being performed! People need to go back and re-read my very first announcement of NWA 5400, and then my first comments about "NWA 5363". As mentioned in my last email regarding this thread, I do not feel I need to keep harping on these facts. I appreciate a few cool heads making these statements on their own, refreshing to know a few people still understand the value of patience and thorough work! Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmh...@htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault - Original Message - From: "Meteorites USA" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 4:15 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! What do you mean, am I reading this right? You assume because 1 person has a piece of a rare meteorite that it's an absolute that more of that meteorite exists? This certainly doesn't take into account single meteorite classifications at all. Are you saying the EVERY NWA ever classified has a pairing? Because that's what this sounds like. Regards, Eric On 9/28/2010 12:36 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: So, if NWA 5400 turned up in the Hupe inventory, you can bet your bottom dollar that the same meteorite will show up in other dealer inventories under a different NWA number(s). __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.856 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3164 - Release Date: 09/28/10 02:34:00 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
Hi Shawn, >I find collecting from a classification aspect with NWA's to be very cumbersome because of the slight >variations in meteorites which some people say its rare. Once I was also a relatively strict historics collector. Until I realized, that NWA will open to me a WHOLE NEW WORLD!!! Hey, I simply didn't knew, where to take it from, if I had to pay a 1000$ a gram for an Acapulco, or a couple of hundreds for a How or R, or 100+ for an CK, or some hundreds of thousands for a Calcalong. And there were many types simply unavailable. Or today, each beginner has a fat black-cruster OC of several kilos as paperweight on the desk, where should I get it then from? Even at my earliest times the Gaos were already brown :-( Now I can play around with the whole solar system or at least with the whole asteroid belt, Moon and Mars in my hands! And imagine, I need no microscope or magnifier and haven't to overstress my fantasy anymore to watch my specimens! O.k. now I don't have to my stone the story that Barney Geroellheimer Jr. from Possum Trot, AL, used it from 1953-57 as a chamber pot, until the mineral collector and medic Dr.Zampone took it as payment for a successful treatment against cholera, whose widow donated his collection later to the Smithsonian, where in 1972 the esteemed Dr.Macarius Seltsam found organic compounds in the stone and building blocks of life And so what! - if it's a rare type - and, Shawn, AT THIS PRICE!!! - I can live excellently with that. And if I do some sports and if I give up some habits, which make life liveable, then most probably I will still live to hear our desert stones of today being called by the collectors of the next but one generation: historical. ;-) Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Shawn Alan Gesendet: Dienstag, 28. September 2010 21:57 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Hello Count and other Listers :) Count said; What would command more of one's treasure. An Ensesheim with provenance, or a stone of the same classification from NWA? How about the first meteorite, with COMPLETE analysis, that is the first of it's kind found to be tied to the earth's early formation? Say NW 5400? * Count all meteorites that are given a name are all complete with an analysis, so this doesn't make NWA 5400 more special. Also if you look at it every meteorite in its own right, can be deemed as different. Look at Vesta, I wonder how many meteorites come from that asteroid and here we have variations in each meteorite from that parent body. I find collecting from a classification aspect with NWA's to be very cumbersome because of the slight variations in meteorites which some people say its rare. Now lets talk about rarity, I would take an Ensisheim over a NWA any day of the week and even if its the "the first of it's kind found to be tied to the earth's early formation?" as how you put it with a question mark. Now the dilemma with this unproven theory is that wouldn't the cosmic-ray-exposure age of NWA 5400 be 4 billion years old when the Earth had the catastrophic event to eject material of the planet? The oldest date with stony meteorites is about 100 million year for the CRE. I find it odd that the CRE hasn't been test yet? That in its self would prove or disprove the theory and put it at rest. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p 4340 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Celtic coin depicting comet?
Just trying to get some opinions. I recently got a batch of celtic coins from a french hoard in trade for some fossils. Two of the coins seem to have some interesting symbolism; what appears to be a comet over two mountains. Or perhaps that my interpretation. See for yourself; http://pics.livejournal.com/thefossiladdict/pic/000azspb Feedback? I'll try to get some better pictures later. -Yinan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
Hi Count, You said it! I couldn't agree more, It is the research, and the science, and the rarity, that first drive the desirabilitythen the other factors of collection enter the picture to set the initial price. Please, ladies and gentlemen, don't denigrate those of us who say we collect for investment. We, in reality, support the research and the science of our learned academics with our obsession to participate by desiring to have and to hold what they have discovered. Some people say they like a hammer because it hit something, other people say the meteorite should have an old story. If it's from the Moon or Mars or Earth, there will be many paired NWA's to choose from. Three cheers for the NWA's, its a collectors dream come true. Ensesheim meteorite is another LL6 chondrite stony meteorite. but if this is what you like, then enjoy it. Tim Heitz MIDWEST METEORITES http://www.meteorman.org 314-596-1435 Member IMCA-4781 International Meteorite Collectors Association - Original Message - From: To: "Martin Altmann" ; Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Ah! Meine guten Freunde, Martin, Shawn und alle auf der Liste. Martin said, "And that is one point, which makes meteorite collecting so fascinating, that you can participate to a certain degree in the red-hot space research!" You have hit the nail on the head, Martin! I, for one, collect for the thrill of having a specimen that advanced the knowledge of the cosmos and our beginnings. What would one prize more and pay more to have? A lunar brought back by an astronaut from the moon, or the lunar found in the trackless deserts of NWA and proven by all science available to be authentic...or a specimen recovered from NWA that has a classification based on a PARTIAL analysis? Of course!!! The one with the impeccable provenance of being found on the moon! What would command more of one's treasure. An Ensesheim with provenance, or a stone of the same classification from NWA? How about the first meteorite, with COMPLETE analysis, that is the first of it's kind found to be tied to the earth's early formation? Say NWA 5400? It is the research, and the science, and the rarity, that first drive the desireabilitythen the other factors of collection enter the picture to set the initial price. Please, ladies and gentlemen, don't denigrate those of us who say we collect for investment. We, in reality, support the research and the science of our learned academics with our obsession to participate by desiring to have and to hold what they have discovered. Best to all, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Martin Altmann Sent: Sep 28, 2010 9:17 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! But, Shawn, Count, all.. with NWA you get material, which you couldn't afford, if you'd have to buy it in form of historics, material, where not sufficient quantities for all, collectors&scientists, are available among the historics, you get NEW material and sometimes material not to be found among historics and you get it at an all-time-in-history-rock-bottom-low-price. (See my boringly lengthy posting from yesterday on the IMCA-list) And I don't know, always this volatileness... I mean for most collectors, meteorites are more than only an episode of two or three years, NWA we have for only 10 years now, all in all I don't have the impression that a price decline of NWAs happened, to me it seems rather, that the recent years they're getting - some slowly, some faster - more expensive. And if you think on the somewhat longer run, mid-term, I think, then it won't carry weight, whether today a NWA costs a couple of dollars more or less. Btw. meteorites are much more than curios or collectibles, they are objects of current cutting-edge research. Other than with fine art, antiques, coins, books, baseball cards ect. that field isn't so concludingly closed in that respect. And really..., it is certainly not the business of the research institutes and universities, to serve as certifiers and consultants for the valuation of meteorites as commercial collectibles. They do research and science. And that is one point, which makes meteorite collecting so fascinating, that you can participate to a certain degree in the red-hot space research! Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Shawn Alan Gesendet: Dienstag, 28. September 2010 17:46 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Adam wrote: *** This issue is not unique to NWA meteorites. The same thing coul
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
Hi Shawn and List, Historics and NWA's are like chocolate and peanut butter - they both have their individual virtues, but they are arguably more tasty when combined. Unless a person's collecting interest is narrowly defined (type collection, historic falls, state falls, hammers, etc), then most collections can benefit from having a broad base of specimens. Historicals are a must in my opinion because of what they represent in terms of history and cultural significance. NWA's are a must because they represent an affordable way to stock a collection with exotic types. Try shopping for a piece of Lodran or Novo Urei versus an NWA lodranite or ureilite to see what I mean. So it mainly comes down to the individual collector and what they are looking for. Some people, like myself, are chaotic collectors. My collection lacks a solid focus. I have historicals, NWA's, hammers, rare types, "appealing" names, and sentimental specimens. In my collection, all meteorites are welcome, regardless of historical or scientific significance. Even meteorwrongs are welcome in my collection (nice piece of Shirokovsky on the way as we speak) Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 9/28/10, Shawn Alan wrote: > Hello Count and other Listers :) > > > Count said; > > What would command more of one's treasure. An Ensesheim with provenance, or > a stone of the same classification from NWA? How about the first meteorite, > with COMPLETE analysis, that is the first of it's kind found to be tied to > the earth's early formation? Say NW 5400? > > * > > > Count all meteorites that are given a name are all complete with an > analysis, so this doesn't make NWA 5400 more special. Also if you look at it > every meteorite in its own right, can be deemed as different. Look at Vesta, > I wonder how many meteorites come from that asteroid and here we have > variations in each meteorite from that parent body. I find collecting from a > classification aspect with NWA's to be very cumbersome because of the > slight variations in meteorites which some people say its rare. > > Now lets talk about rarity, I would take an Ensisheim over a NWA any day of > the week and even if its the "the first of it's kind found to be tied to the > earth's early formation?" as how you put it with a question mark. Now the > dilemma with this unproven theory is that wouldn't the cosmic-ray-exposure > age of NWA 5400 be 4 billion years old when the Earth had the catastrophic > event to eject material of the planet? The oldest date with stony meteorites > is about 100 million year for the CRE. I find it odd that the CRE hasn't > been test yet? That in its self would prove or disprove the theory and put > it at rest. > > Shawn Alan > IMCA 1633 > eBaystore > http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340 > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Dawn Journal - September 27, 2010
http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/journal_09_27_10.asp Dawn Journal Dr. Marc Rayman September 27, 2010 Dear Dawnniversaries, On the third anniversary of traveling through the solar system on its own since dispatching Dawn on a separate journey, Earth continues to orbit the sun in much the same way it has been. Meanwhile, the spacecraft is thrusting with its ion propulsion system, making steady progress in reshaping its orbit to rendezvous with Vesta in July 2011. In its three years of interplanetary travels, the spacecraft has thrust for a total of about 715 days, or 65% of the time (and about 0.00014% of the time since the Big Bang). While for most spacecraft, firing a thruster to change course is a special event, it is Dawn's wont. All this thrusting has cost the craft only 189 kilograms (417 pounds) of its supply of xenon propellant, which was 425 kilograms (937 pounds) on September 27, 2007. The thrusting so far in the mission has achieved the equivalent of accelerating the probe by 5.01 kilometers per second (11,200 miles per hour). As previous logs have described for one of the more extensive discussions), because of the principles of motion for orbital flight, whether around the sun or any other gravitating body, Dawn is not actually traveling this much faster than when it launched. But the effective change in speed remains a useful measure of the effect of any spacecraft's propulsive work. Having accomplished only one-third of the thrust time planned for its entire mission, Dawn has already far exceeded the velocity change achieved by any other spacecraft under its own power. Since launch, our readers who have remained on or near Earth have completed three revolutions around the sun, covering about 18.9 AU (2.82 billion kilometers or 1.75 billion miles). Orbiting farther from the sun, and thus moving at a more leisurely pace, Dawn has traveled 15.1 AU (2.26 billion kilometers or 1.40 billion miles). As it climbs away from the sun to match its orbit to that of Vesta, it will continue to slow down to Vesta's speed. Since Dawn's launch, Vesta has traveled only 12.0 AU (1.80 billion kilometers or 1.12 billion miles). Readers with eidetic memory have already noticed that much of the text in the three preceding paragraphs is taken nearly verbatim from the logs that commemorated Dawn's first and second anniversaries of being in space, with the principal changes being that the numbers are updated here and we have generously expunged more (but not all!) humor each time. For those who wish to cogitate about the extraordinary nature of this interplanetary journey, comparing the first half of this log with those others may be helpful. In order to make the table below comprehensible (and to fulfill our commitment of environmental responsibility), we reuse some more of the text here. Another way to investigate the progress of the mission is to chart how Dawn's orbit around the sun has changed. This discussion will culminate with a few more numbers than we usually include, and readers who prefer not to indulge may skip this material, leaving that much more for the grateful Numerivores. Orbits are ellipses (like flattened circles, or ovals in which the ends are of equal size). So as members of the solar system family follow their paths around the sun, they sometimes move closer and sometimes move farther from it. In addition to orbits being characterized by shape, or equivalently by the amount of flattening (that is, the deviation from being a perfect circle), and by size, they may be described in part by how they are oriented in space. Using the bias of terrestrial astronomers, the plane of Earth's orbit around the sun (known as the /ecliptic/) is a good reference. Other planets and interplanetary spacecraft travel in orbits that are tipped at some angle to that. The angle between the ecliptic and the plane of another body's orbit around the sun is the /inclination/ of that orbit. Vesta and Ceres do not orbit the sun in the same plane that Earth does, and Dawn must match its orbit to that of its targets. (The major planets orbit closer to the ecliptic, and no spacecraft has had to venture as far out of that plane in order to achieve orbit around another body as Dawn will.) Now we can see how Dawn has been doing by considering the size and shape (together expressed by the minimum and maximum distances from the sun) and inclination of its orbit on each of its anniversaries. (Experts readily recognize that there is more to describing an orbit than these parameters. Our policy remains that we link to the experts' websites when their readership extends to one more elliptical galaxy than ours does.) The table below shows what the orbit would have been if the spacecraft had terminated thrusting on its anniversaries; the orbits of its destinations, Vesta and Ceres, are included for comparison. Of course, when Dawn was on the launch pad on September 27, 2007, its orbit around the sun was exactly Earth's
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
What do you mean, am I reading this right? You assume because 1 person has a piece of a rare meteorite that it's an absolute that more of that meteorite exists? This certainly doesn't take into account single meteorite classifications at all. Are you saying the EVERY NWA ever classified has a pairing? Because that's what this sounds like. Regards, Eric On 9/28/2010 12:36 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: So, if NWA 5400 turned up in the Hupe inventory, you can bet your bottom dollar that the same meteorite will show up in other dealer inventories under a different NWA number(s). __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
Hello Count and other Listers :) Count said; What would command more of one's treasure. An Ensesheim with provenance, or a stone of the same classification from NWA? How about the first meteorite, with COMPLETE analysis, that is the first of it's kind found to be tied to the earth's early formation? Say NW 5400? * Count all meteorites that are given a name are all complete with an analysis, so this doesn't make NWA 5400 more special. Also if you look at it every meteorite in its own right, can be deemed as different. Look at Vesta, I wonder how many meteorites come from that asteroid and here we have variations in each meteorite from that parent body. I find collecting from a classification aspect with NWA's to be very cumbersome because of the slight variations in meteorites which some people say its rare. Now lets talk about rarity, I would take an Ensisheim over a NWA any day of the week and even if its the "the first of it's kind found to be tied to the earth's early formation?" as how you put it with a question mark. Now the dilemma with this unproven theory is that wouldn't the cosmic-ray-exposure age of NWA 5400 be 4 billion years old when the Earth had the catastrophic event to eject material of the planet? The oldest date with stony meteorites is about 100 million year for the CRE. I find it odd that the CRE hasn't been test yet? That in its self would prove or disprove the theory and put it at rest. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
Greetings Count, Adam, Martin, Shawn and curious onlookers, As we all know, at this point in the NWA timeline, meteorites are not exclusively sold to one wholesaler or dealer. These meteorites are "shopped around the block" to multiple wholesalers/dealers. So, if NWA 5400 turned up in the Hupe inventory, you can bet your bottom dollar that the same meteorite will show up in other dealer inventories under a different NWA number(s). The salient difference is, as Adam said, the pairing must be backed up by solid science and not a visual comparison or casual comparison. We have seen no less than 2 pairing claims so far and I am sure more will be forthcoming as time goes on. But, unless the pairings have been microprobed and have had O-isotope analysis done, then they cannot be announced as official pairings. As the Count said, provenance is everything. The NWA catalogue system was put into place to help control this chaotic flood of specimens pouring out of the Sahara. Eventually, science will sort out the tangled web of NWA numbers and the finds will begin to group together under solid pairings which represent a single find or fall. Until that time, we are all participating in science to some degree by having these specimens classified and analyzed. We are contributing to the overall puzzle picture by putting these small pieces into place. As as Dr. Vann and Martin Altmann said, the majority of us do NOT collect for financial return. Sure, some of us make a few bucks on deals, but I imagine very few people make a comfortable full-time living from dealing meteorites - the money is just too inconsistent and the marketplace is too fickle. We collect for a variety of reasons, and for some us, we like to think we are doing something positive that contributes to the sciences in addition to enriching our collection cabinets. I know that my collection will be donated to a worthy institution when I pass from this Earth, so anything that goes into my cabinet is not being acquired for the purpose of making a buck in the future. That doesn't mean I haven't sold some specimens I'd rather keep to pay bills, but resale value never comes to mind when I acquire something for my personal stash collection. Now, my resale inventory is an entirely different ballgame, and I do consider the financial aspect when buying something to resell, but that is just one aspect of my passion for meteorites and it is not the overriding factor. I just thought of something funny I was discussing with another collector recently. We were discussing how meteorites have little intrinsic value in financial terms or survival terms. You can't eat one (unless it's Novo Urei), you can't pay the electric company with one, and grocery stores will not accept them. So, if the system/grid collapses, what good is a meteorite collection? I told my friend, all of that may be true, but I can put a 500g chondrite into a tube sock and hit someone over the head with it and take their food. LOL So, if the grid collapses and all collectibles become worthless, then just remember that meteorites are very heavy and would make fine weapons. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 9/28/10, countde...@earthlink.net wrote: > Ah! Meine guten Freunde, Martin, Shawn und alle auf der Liste. > >>Martin said, "And that is one point, which makes meteorite collecting so >> fascinating, that >>you can participate to a certain degree in the red-hot space research!" > > You have hit the nail on the head, Martin! I, for one, collect for the > thrill of having a specimen that advanced the knowledge of the cosmos and > our beginnings. > > What would one prize more and pay more to have? A lunar brought back by an > astronaut from the moon, or the lunar found in the trackless deserts of NWA > and proven by all science available to be authentic...or a specimen > recovered from NWA that has a classification based on a PARTIAL analysis? Of > course!!! The one with the impeccable provenance of being found on the moon! > > What would command more of one's treasure. An Ensesheim with provenance, or > a stone of the same classification from NWA? How about the first meteorite, > with COMPLETE analysis, that is the first of it's kind found to be tied to > the earth's early formation? Say NWA 5400? > > It is the research, and the science, and the rarity, that first drive the > desireabilitythen the other factors of collection enter the picture to > set the initial price. > > Please, ladies and gentlemen, don't denigrate those of us who say w
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
Hi Greg S., the Martians and the Lunars are the best documented meteorites of all and are also those meteorites, where the most research is currently done on (together with the carbonaceous ones). Martians & Lunars are the last anonym meteorites of all. Find all about the lunaites here: http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/moon_meteorites_list_alumina.htm If you click in the list on the very name/number a page opens, with pictures, all members of the group, all entries in the Bulletins aand all papers and abstracts (those clickable) published about that very lunaite also the most recent ones. On top you find a short note, which points make that lunar special. Below the list of publications, you can click the chemical classification, Opening another page, where you find that particular lunar placed in the various chemical diagrams with the other lunars. Cool, isn't it? Such a website for Martians is also in progress: http://www.imca.cc/mars/martian-meteorites.htm Furthermore, here you have all Martians and Lunars and how they belong together at a glance with pics of the main masses as well as of collector-sized slices: http://www.meteoris.de/ And if nothing helps, then - like always - David Weir is your best friend: http://www.meteoritestudies.com/ Conflicting information I can't remember with the Martians. Well, and there was so far only one Martian, that NWA 2975++, where, because it produced so many small pebbles, a few sold supposedly paired material for the quick buck unclassified. Well in general, not only with NWA, with the observed falls it's often the same too. That private collecting market is so fast, most material is sold and bought while the official classification process is still running. Often enough it can take 2 years, until a stone will be published in the Bulletin. And with the very tricky ones, where the classification is everything else than trivial, it can take even longer. And if classification is finished, that doesn't mean that research is finished. Of course it continues. You saw it just a few weeks back here on the list, where in an CV3 from NWA with an old 2000er number, the CAIs were measured to be 2 million years older than usually, which in turn led the scientist, to postulate, that we need a new model of chondrules and planet formation. Isn't that great? From such a desert-stinker, from NWA, where we here on the list sometimes quibble, whether 10$ a gram is adequate, or 15$ a rip-off or insist, that it has to cost 5$, there a whole new model can emanate, how World was created! Skol! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Thunder Stone Gesendet: Dienstag, 28. September 2010 19:16 An: star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; photoph...@yahoo.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! I collect meteorites that are odd in any way. It could be the type, where it was found, the shape or anything that makes it interesting to show and talk about. To me a fresh fall that's an OC may be a lot more desirable than an achondrite. Or an OC that has a very unique shape may be preferred. I have an Iron that has hammer marks on it (it was used to hammer stuff), that makes it unique to me. If you collect meteorites as investments - you need to do research and find ones that maintain the highest demand. The one thing that has always bothered me (mostly with NWA's) is the vast amount of conflicting information (ie Martian finds). I just wish there was a better way for the meteorite finds and (falls) to be properly accounted for and better documented. Greg S. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
Ah! Meine guten Freunde, Martin, Shawn und alle auf der Liste. >Martin said, "And that is one point, which makes meteorite collecting so >fascinating, that >you can participate to a certain degree in the red-hot space research!" You have hit the nail on the head, Martin! I, for one, collect for the thrill of having a specimen that advanced the knowledge of the cosmos and our beginnings. What would one prize more and pay more to have? A lunar brought back by an astronaut from the moon, or the lunar found in the trackless deserts of NWA and proven by all science available to be authentic...or a specimen recovered from NWA that has a classification based on a PARTIAL analysis? Of course!!! The one with the impeccable provenance of being found on the moon! What would command more of one's treasure. An Ensesheim with provenance, or a stone of the same classification from NWA? How about the first meteorite, with COMPLETE analysis, that is the first of it's kind found to be tied to the earth's early formation? Say NWA 5400? It is the research, and the science, and the rarity, that first drive the desireabilitythen the other factors of collection enter the picture to set the initial price. Please, ladies and gentlemen, don't denigrate those of us who say we collect for investment. We, in reality, support the research and the science of our learned academics with our obsession to participate by desiring to have and to hold what they have discovered. Best to all, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- >From: Martin Altmann >Sent: Sep 28, 2010 9:17 AM >To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! > >But, Shawn, Count, all.. > >with NWA you get material, which you couldn't afford, if you'd have to buy >it in form of historics, >material, where not sufficient quantities for all, collectors&scientists, >are available among the historics, >you get NEW material and sometimes material not to be found among historics > >and you get it at an all-time-in-history-rock-bottom-low-price. >(See my boringly lengthy posting from yesterday on the IMCA-list) > >And I don't know, always this volatileness... > >I mean for most collectors, meteorites are more than only an episode of two >or three years, >NWA we have for only 10 years now, >all in all I don't have the impression that a price decline of NWAs >happened, to me it seems rather, that the recent years they're getting - >some slowly, some faster - more expensive. > >And if you think on the somewhat longer run, mid-term, >I think, then it won't carry weight, whether today a NWA costs a couple of >dollars more or less. > > >Btw. meteorites are much more than curios or collectibles, >they are objects of current cutting-edge research. > >Other than with fine art, antiques, coins, books, baseball cards ect. that >field isn't so concludingly closed in that respect. > >And really..., it is certainly not the business of the research institutes >and universities, >to serve as certifiers and consultants for the valuation of meteorites as >commercial collectibles. >They do research and science. > >And that is one point, which makes meteorite collecting so fascinating, that >you can participate to a certain degree in the red-hot space research! > >Best! >Martin > > >-Ursprüngliche Nachricht- >Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com >[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Shawn >Alan >Gesendet: Dienstag, 28. September 2010 17:46 >An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >Betreff: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! > > >Adam wrote: > > >*** > >This issue is not unique to NWA meteorites. The same thing could be said for > >Antarctic or other desert finds. Yes, Antarctica is a desert. The same issue > >applies to falls. How much Allende is really out there? Nobody knows for >sure, >the same can be said for Murchison. You can make the same claim for just >about >any fall. > > >*** > >Adam the difference between NWAs and all the other falls is that NWA nobody >knows where the strewn fields are. As for the rest, there is data on strewn >fields and correct documentation that is used to asses the fall or find. > >But with a NWA I find that people say that only buy my NWA because its the >real deal and the pairs are inferior. The problem with that is with NWAs are >collected and through out the months or year the same meteorite gets >recycled back to dealers and in a since every NWA stone has to be classified >cause of the collection process. > >Good example is NWA 2999, I think this meteorite has 2 other pairings if not >more and think how many pairs it will have in a few years from now? And >another good example is NWA 5400 which could have a few pairs,
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
Coect, Adam! In the Bulletins you have often with the classics either tkw figures from the first (single) report or from ld literature. The Blue Book, what has it for Sikhote - 27 tons. But rather 100 tons were recovered. Same with Campo, same with Canyon, same with Gibeon Gao-Guenie, there was always given 100kg, but I guess alone Carion must have collected 500kgs. It took decades until Neuvo Mercurio wasn't listed anymore with 5 but with 50kg. Also with small-tkw falls. Remember the example here on the list, where we all found for Chiang Khan rather 10kgs than the 367g from the Catalogue. ...and so on. Huh and the rareness of NWAs, Of course, there seem to be soo much and many. But that impression is deceptive. Example, take the NWA 2975-Martian-group. It has now already 15 different numbers and of course one saw many samples from these numbers offered, so that some thought, it must be a mass-Martian, simply because of its temporary presence on web. Count together the tkws - 1.3kg. A little bag full, a nothing. If you want, add some non-classifed, selfpaired samples, still a small bag and a nothing. There never was Ali Baba's treasure cave in NWA-wonderland. Just check it, how much smaller the tkws of the NWAs are than those of the historics, how few of the rarer classes really there are. It's such a fine tool, the database: http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/index.php There are no myriads of tons. In fact - rareness - historics: 9 of 10 meteorites on Earth belong to the 20 largest mass irons. (In fact more, cause there the dark figure is highest) 19 CV3s out of 20 are an Allende 3 out of 4 eucrites are a Millbillillie And so on. NWAs, the rarer classes are indeed superrare. And the rarest of them, these stones with a small tkw. In a few years/decades they will be legends. Best! Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] pairing and collecting
I'd like to make a couple of observations about both pairing and collecting. Several comments have been made regarding preserving the value of a meterorite, with reference to pairings decreasing value, etc. I don't know why you collect, heck, I don't even know why I collect things. It is apparently a part of human nature (for at least some) . Sure, we rationalize it by saying "it is a beautiful thing", "it has an interesting story", etc., but in the final analysis, these things are not necessities. Somewhere along the line, I think it was with baseball cards, the rarity of some items, combined with an increasing market from an expnading population, drove the price for these items out of sight. And thus, the concept of "investibles" had its genesis. This is a marketing ploy to get you to buy things. However, if you think that collectible items are an investment with a monetary return, you need to think very, very carefully about this idea. The vast majority of collectible items will not make you rich. An example: a friend bought a Saint Gaudens gold coin a while back. Whereas his stocks declined, he ultimately sold the coin for twice what he paid - so he thought he made out. The actual rate of return was just about 3 1/2 percent. Guess how much inflation went up during that time? I have watched many types of collectible investments over the years. Most actually lose money after you account for inflation. Many of them return the same buying power you had when they were bought. A few, very few, bring a great return on investment. Where do meteorites fall? I doubt that you will make much money on them, Bob Haag nonwithstanding. There is always a point in a new market where there is money to be made, but after that, not so much. As a dealer, can you make a living? Quite possibly, yes - that can be answered by others. Will there be a return as an investment - I seriously doubt it. No collector should collect because he or she expects a return on investment - you should collect because you like the item, like looking at it, like its story/history, or as Martin said, because you can be involved in some way with the science. In other words, for the pleasure brought to you by the possession of the object. If you make money on it, well then, that's a great bonus. But it should never be the purpose, as you will be disappointed. I'm sure many on this list can add their own experiences in this regard. Just remember, next time the speculating bankers take down the world economy (again...how many times is it now?), meteorites will have no value - but your can of Spam will. So, if my meteorite now has a new friend, a pair, am I to despair? Well, not from the scientific point of view, because that is supporting evidence. How about from the investment point of view? Does the value decrease because we now have two stones? Does it? (see above) How about from the point of view of the collector? Now you can buy two, rather than just one. What are we collecting, after all? We are collecting names. Yes, names, like Orgueil, Almahatta Sitta, Weston. If the current understanding is correct, the lithological classification of a meteorite has something to do with the body(ies) it may have originated on, and the processes on that planetoid. In other words there is a very good likelihood that ALL H5 stones are Paired!!! OMG!!! What does that do to the value of my Bassikounou? Nothing, actually. Almahatta Sitta is just another ureilite, after all. But one with the best story of all (from the scientific point of view). Many, many stones will be paired in the end, because they came from the same source. Occasionally, they will be "lauch-paired", i.e. knocked off the source at the same time. After all, if the current ideas are correct, the entire class of HEDO meteorties were probably launch-paired in a colossal impact that knocked off a quarter of Vesta. Does having several specimens of different names (whether Frankfort or Kapoeta or NWA 1929) make any one of them less valuable? I don't think so. Collecting Frankfort or Kapoeta, you are collecting a story (they are falls). Collecting NWA1929, you are collecting a name, but only the story that it is a Howardite, and likely some part of a shattered asteroid. The first two cost more because of their story, not so much because of their classification. For NWA5400 and NWA6162, we are collecting stories again. Whether Greg H. charges more than Peter M., or vice versa, has to do with what they want to get - it is theirs, after all - they can charge anything they want. Will I pay it? Well, that depends on whether can afford it and want a piece of that story (it might be an 'Earthite", in case you haven't been paying attention). So, in summary: don't collect because you think you will get rich colecting - you won't. Don't imagine that pairs affect really affect actual value; they don't because, in the end everything will have pairs. My fifty dinars worth (to paraphrase Mike G., actual mileage
[meteorite-list] AD - Planetarium school trip fundraiser
My daughters school is trying to plan a trip to the Catawba Valley Science Center and Planetarium. http://catawbascience.org/ Budget cuts will not allow the school to cover the $12.50 per child cost for the 34 students in 2nd grade that would attend. I know I have done my AD for the week, but would really like to send them. I take my kids all the time and I know the students would have a great time. That said, I need to raise $425 to send the two second grade classes to the science center. Check out my ebay listings and make offers off list for off ebay sales (fees will only take money away from the cash I will have to give) You can see my listings here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwanderingstarmeteoritesQQhtZ-1 Please make sure to use "School Fundraiser" in the email subject or just reply to this (off list) Thanks, Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Tue, 9/28/10, Thunder Stone wrote: > From: Thunder Stone > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! > To: star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, > photoph...@yahoo.com > Date: Tuesday, September 28, 2010, 1:16 PM > > I collect meteorites that are odd in any way. It could be > the type, where it was found, the shape or anything that > makes it interesting to show and talk about. To me a fresh > fall that's an OC may be a lot more desirable than an > achondrite. Or an OC that has a very unique shape may be > preferred. I have an Iron that has hammer marks on it (it > was used to hammer stuff), that makes it unique to me. If > you collect meteorites as investments - you need to do > research and find ones that maintain the highest demand. > > The one thing that has always bothered me (mostly with > NWA's) is the vast amount of conflicting information (ie > Martian finds). I just wish there was a better way for the > meteorite finds and (falls) to be properly accounted for and > better documented. > > Greg S. > > > > Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 09:19:03 -0700 > > From: star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com > > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; > photoph...@yahoo.com > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired > to NWA 5400 ! > > > > >> the difference between NWAs and all the other > falls is that NWA nobody knows where the strewn fields are. > > > > Same can be said for many US falls when strewnfields > are likened to gold claims and the data is kept secret. > > The strewnfield for Whetstone is still not known > publicly or even listed in the metbul. You may have 5-10 > people in a small collective who know and that is it. > > > > Then take other finds where people intentionally > provide wrong co ordinates to keep others from finding > material (as pointed out recently on here) > > > > The world of meteorites is very secretive and the > major focus for many is purely the money to be made. > > > > Its not about TKW, its not about actual rarity. Hell, > Whetstone is the most common type of meteorite and yet > people are asking for more per gram then an angrite sells > for currently! > > > > At the end of the day, meteorites and values are more > based on who has the material, who has access to the > material and strewnfield and how much can be made off it. > > > > Almahatta Sitta is another great example. One dealer > has it and can set the price to what they wish. When asked, > they would not even give a discount for a state college to > obtain a sample for study... If thats not about the money > and not the science, I dont know a better example to offer. > > > > > > Greg Catterton > > www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com > > IMCA member 4682 > > On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites > > On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites > > > > > > --- On Tue, 9/28/10, Shawn Alan wrote: > > > > > From: Shawn Alan > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS > paired to NWA 5400 ! > > > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > Date: Tuesday, September 28, 2010, 11:45 AM > > > > > > Adam wrote: > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > This issue is not unique to NWA meteorites. The > same thing > > > could be said for > > > Antarctic or other desert finds. Yes, Antarctica > is a > > > desert. The same issue > > > applies to falls. How much Allende is really out > there? > > > Nobody knows for sure, > > > the same can be said for Murchison. You can make > the same > > > claim for just about > > > any fall. > > > > > > > *** > > > > > > Adam the difference between NWAs and all the > other falls is > > > that NWA nobody knows where the strewn fields > are. As for > > > the rest, there is da
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
I collect meteorites that are odd in any way. It could be the type, where it was found, the shape or anything that makes it interesting to show and talk about. To me a fresh fall that's an OC may be a lot more desirable than an achondrite. Or an OC that has a very unique shape may be preferred. I have an Iron that has hammer marks on it (it was used to hammer stuff), that makes it unique to me. If you collect meteorites as investments - you need to do research and find ones that maintain the highest demand. The one thing that has always bothered me (mostly with NWA's) is the vast amount of conflicting information (ie Martian finds). I just wish there was a better way for the meteorite finds and (falls) to be properly accounted for and better documented. Greg S. > Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 09:19:03 -0700 > From: star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; photoph...@yahoo.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! > > >> the difference between NWAs and all the other falls is that NWA nobody > >> knows where the strewn fields are. > > Same can be said for many US falls when strewnfields are likened to gold > claims and the data is kept secret. > The strewnfield for Whetstone is still not known publicly or even listed in > the metbul. You may have 5-10 people in a small collective who know and that > is it. > > Then take other finds where people intentionally provide wrong co ordinates > to keep others from finding material (as pointed out recently on here) > > The world of meteorites is very secretive and the major focus for many is > purely the money to be made. > > Its not about TKW, its not about actual rarity. Hell, Whetstone is the most > common type of meteorite and yet people are asking for more per gram then an > angrite sells for currently! > > At the end of the day, meteorites and values are more based on who has the > material, who has access to the material and strewnfield and how much can be > made off it. > > Almahatta Sitta is another great example. One dealer has it and can set the > price to what they wish. When asked, they would not even give a discount for > a state college to obtain a sample for study... If thats not about the money > and not the science, I dont know a better example to offer. > > > Greg Catterton > www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com > IMCA member 4682 > On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites > On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites > > > --- On Tue, 9/28/10, Shawn Alan wrote: > > > From: Shawn Alan > > Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! > > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Tuesday, September 28, 2010, 11:45 AM > > > > Adam wrote: > > > > *** > > > > This issue is not unique to NWA meteorites. The same thing > > could be said for > > Antarctic or other desert finds. Yes, Antarctica is a > > desert. The same issue > > applies to falls. How much Allende is really out there? > > Nobody knows for sure, > > the same can be said for Murchison. You can make the same > > claim for just about > > any fall. > > > > *** > > > > Adam the difference between NWAs and all the other falls is > > that NWA nobody knows where the strewn fields are. As for > > the rest, there is data on strewn fields and correct > > documentation that is used to asses the fall or find. > > > > But with a NWA I find that people say that only buy my NWA > > because its the real deal and the pairs are inferior. The > > problem with that is with NWAs are collected and through out > > the months or year the same meteorite gets recycled back to > > dealers and in a since every NWA stone has to be classified > > cause of the collection process. > > > > Good example is NWA 2999, I think this meteorite has 2 > > other pairings if not more and think how many pairs it will > > have in a few years from now? And another good example is > > NWA 5400 which could have a few pairs, which are very > > likely. > > > > Now when people bank of there NWA as being rare cause of > > low TKW it seems that it this could be misleading cause of > > the circumstances that NWAs present to science and they way > > they are collected. > > > > > > Shawn Alan > > IMCA 1633 > > eBaystore > > http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !Adam > > Hupe raremeteorites at yahoo.com > > Tue Sep 28 09:22:26 EDT 2010 > > > > > > Previous message: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired > > to NWA 5400 ! > > Next message: [meteorite-list] NEW RELEASE - The Day the > > Meteorite Fell in Sylacauga > > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ]
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
>> the difference between NWAs and all the other falls is that NWA nobody knows >> where the strewn fields are. Same can be said for many US falls when strewnfields are likened to gold claims and the data is kept secret. The strewnfield for Whetstone is still not known publicly or even listed in the metbul. You may have 5-10 people in a small collective who know and that is it. Then take other finds where people intentionally provide wrong co ordinates to keep others from finding material (as pointed out recently on here) The world of meteorites is very secretive and the major focus for many is purely the money to be made. Its not about TKW, its not about actual rarity. Hell, Whetstone is the most common type of meteorite and yet people are asking for more per gram then an angrite sells for currently! At the end of the day, meteorites and values are more based on who has the material, who has access to the material and strewnfield and how much can be made off it. Almahatta Sitta is another great example. One dealer has it and can set the price to what they wish. When asked, they would not even give a discount for a state college to obtain a sample for study... If thats not about the money and not the science, I dont know a better example to offer. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Tue, 9/28/10, Shawn Alan wrote: > From: Shawn Alan > Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Tuesday, September 28, 2010, 11:45 AM > > Adam wrote: > > *** > > This issue is not unique to NWA meteorites. The same thing > could be said for > Antarctic or other desert finds. Yes, Antarctica is a > desert. The same issue > applies to falls. How much Allende is really out there? > Nobody knows for sure, > the same can be said for Murchison. You can make the same > claim for just about > any fall. > > *** > > Adam the difference between NWAs and all the other falls is > that NWA nobody knows where the strewn fields are. As for > the rest, there is data on strewn fields and correct > documentation that is used to asses the fall or find. > > But with a NWA I find that people say that only buy my NWA > because its the real deal and the pairs are inferior. The > problem with that is with NWAs are collected and through out > the months or year the same meteorite gets recycled back to > dealers and in a since every NWA stone has to be classified > cause of the collection process. > > Good example is NWA 2999, I think this meteorite has 2 > other pairings if not more and think how many pairs it will > have in a few years from now? And another good example is > NWA 5400 which could have a few pairs, which are very > likely. > > Now when people bank of there NWA as being rare cause of > low TKW it seems that it this could be misleading cause of > the circumstances that NWAs present to science and they way > they are collected. > > > Shawn Alan > IMCA 1633 > eBaystore > http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340 > > > > > > > > > [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !Adam > Hupe raremeteorites at yahoo.com > Tue Sep 28 09:22:26 EDT 2010 > > > Previous message: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired > to NWA 5400 ! > Next message: [meteorite-list] NEW RELEASE - The Day the > Meteorite Fell in Sylacauga > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ > author ] > > > > Shawn wrote: > > * > > Now the slight problem I have with NWA's is that you really > don't know how much > of that stuff is out there. That can work in your favor and > against you. So > lets say you found an NWA and its about 1000g and you get > it tested and its a > new NWN. Now you can say its rare because there is only > 1000g, but do you > really know that for sure? From what I have seen, its not > the case, and NWAs > keep getting paired with each other more time then not > I think that's why I > tend to stay away from NWA's for that reason and others. > > > > > This issue is not unique to NWA meteorites. The same thing > could be said for > Antarctic or other desert finds. Yes, Antarctica is a > desert. The same issue > applies to falls. How much Allende is really out there? > Nobody knows for sure, > the same can be said for Murchison. You can make the same > claim for just about > any fall. I have seen collectors financially burned on > falls many times, myself > among them. I have lost more va
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
But, Shawn, Count, all.. with NWA you get material, which you couldn't afford, if you'd have to buy it in form of historics, material, where not sufficient quantities for all, collectors&scientists, are available among the historics, you get NEW material and sometimes material not to be found among historics and you get it at an all-time-in-history-rock-bottom-low-price. (See my boringly lengthy posting from yesterday on the IMCA-list) And I don't know, always this volatileness... I mean for most collectors, meteorites are more than only an episode of two or three years, NWA we have for only 10 years now, all in all I don't have the impression that a price decline of NWAs happened, to me it seems rather, that the recent years they're getting - some slowly, some faster - more expensive. And if you think on the somewhat longer run, mid-term, I think, then it won't carry weight, whether today a NWA costs a couple of dollars more or less. Btw. meteorites are much more than curios or collectibles, they are objects of current cutting-edge research. Other than with fine art, antiques, coins, books, baseball cards ect. that field isn't so concludingly closed in that respect. And really..., it is certainly not the business of the research institutes and universities, to serve as certifiers and consultants for the valuation of meteorites as commercial collectibles. They do research and science. And that is one point, which makes meteorite collecting so fascinating, that you can participate to a certain degree in the red-hot space research! Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Shawn Alan Gesendet: Dienstag, 28. September 2010 17:46 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Adam wrote: *** This issue is not unique to NWA meteorites. The same thing could be said for Antarctic or other desert finds. Yes, Antarctica is a desert. The same issue applies to falls. How much Allende is really out there? Nobody knows for sure, the same can be said for Murchison. You can make the same claim for just about any fall. *** Adam the difference between NWAs and all the other falls is that NWA nobody knows where the strewn fields are. As for the rest, there is data on strewn fields and correct documentation that is used to asses the fall or find. But with a NWA I find that people say that only buy my NWA because its the real deal and the pairs are inferior. The problem with that is with NWAs are collected and through out the months or year the same meteorite gets recycled back to dealers and in a since every NWA stone has to be classified cause of the collection process. Good example is NWA 2999, I think this meteorite has 2 other pairings if not more and think how many pairs it will have in a few years from now? And another good example is NWA 5400 which could have a few pairs, which are very likely. Now when people bank of there NWA as being rare cause of low TKW it seems that it this could be misleading cause of the circumstances that NWAs present to science and they way they are collected. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p 4340 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
Pairings are found throughout, regardless if found or witnessed. It is just that falls require much less scrutiny since the find location is enough to make a pairing conclusion. The pairings are very rarely recorded for a fall after the initial entry in the bulletin. NWAs on the other hand, require much more study to determine pairings. The find locations are known for most NWA meteorites, same for any other area of mass concentrations. The Nomads and hunters go back to these same locations time and time again. Sometimes the shifting sands reveal more material. Same for dry lake beds and Antarctic finds. They are named the same way as NWAs regardless whether coordinates are given or not. They are all given serial numbers following the nomenclature. It doesn't make one rarer than the other. It could be argued that a lot of pairings are lost with time making the TKW for finds less than that of falls. It cannot be concluded that one is rarer than the other due to nomenclature alone. The TKWs given for falls are way off unless they came in as a single stone. One just needs to look at Park Forest where the weights were recorded in the Meteoritical Bulletin before the main mass and many others were found. Best Regards, Adam - Original Message From: Shawn Alan To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, September 28, 2010 8:45:40 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Adam wrote: *** This issue is not unique to NWA meteorites. The same thing could be said for Antarctic or other desert finds. Yes, Antarctica is a desert. The same issue applies to falls. How much Allende is really out there? Nobody knows for sure, the same can be said for Murchison. You can make the same claim for just about any fall. *** Adam the difference between NWAs and all the other falls is that NWA nobody knows where the strewn fields are. As for the rest, there is data on strewn fields and correct documentation that is used to asses the fall or find. But with a NWA I find that people say that only buy my NWA because its the real deal and the pairs are inferior. The problem with that is with NWAs are collected and through out the months or year the same meteorite gets recycled back to dealers and in a since every NWA stone has to be classified cause of the collection process. Good example is NWA 2999, I think this meteorite has 2 other pairings if not more and think how many pairs it will have in a few years from now? And another good example is NWA 5400 which could have a few pairs, which are very likely. Now when people bank of there NWA as being rare cause of low TKW it seems that it this could be misleading cause of the circumstances that NWAs present to science and they way they are collected. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340 [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !Adam Hupe raremeteorites at yahoo.com Tue Sep 28 09:22:26 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Next message: [meteorite-list] NEW RELEASE - The Day the Meteorite Fell in Sylacauga Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Shawn wrote: * Now the slight problem I have with NWA's is that you really don't know how much of that stuff is out there. That can work in your favor and against you. So lets say you found an NWA and its about 1000g and you get it tested and its a new NWN. Now you can say its rare because there is only 1000g, but do you really know that for sure? From what I have seen, its not the case, and NWAs keep getting paired with each other more time then not I think that's why I tend to stay away from NWA's for that reason and others. This issue is not unique to NWA meteorites. The same thing could be said for Antarctic or other desert finds. Yes, Antarctica is a desert. The same issue applies to falls. How much Allende is really out there? Nobody knows for sure, the same can be said for Murchison. You can make the same claim for just about any fall. I have seen collectors financially burned on falls many times, myself among them. I have lost more value by collecting new falls than I have collecting finds. This is why I tend to stay away from new falls. The price drops off sharply within a few months once the initial excitement disappears. I lost a small fortune on New Orleans and Claxton by letting the market determine the value by putting them up for auction with no reserves. Happy Hunting, Long live the finds because without them we would
[meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
Adam wrote: *** This issue is not unique to NWA meteorites. The same thing could be said for Antarctic or other desert finds. Yes, Antarctica is a desert. The same issue applies to falls. How much Allende is really out there? Nobody knows for sure, the same can be said for Murchison. You can make the same claim for just about any fall. *** Adam the difference between NWAs and all the other falls is that NWA nobody knows where the strewn fields are. As for the rest, there is data on strewn fields and correct documentation that is used to asses the fall or find. But with a NWA I find that people say that only buy my NWA because its the real deal and the pairs are inferior. The problem with that is with NWAs are collected and through out the months or year the same meteorite gets recycled back to dealers and in a since every NWA stone has to be classified cause of the collection process. Good example is NWA 2999, I think this meteorite has 2 other pairings if not more and think how many pairs it will have in a few years from now? And another good example is NWA 5400 which could have a few pairs, which are very likely. Now when people bank of there NWA as being rare cause of low TKW it seems that it this could be misleading cause of the circumstances that NWAs present to science and they way they are collected. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340 [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !Adam Hupe raremeteorites at yahoo.com Tue Sep 28 09:22:26 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Next message: [meteorite-list] NEW RELEASE - The Day the Meteorite Fell in Sylacauga Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Shawn wrote: * Now the slight problem I have with NWA's is that you really don't know how much of that stuff is out there. That can work in your favor and against you. So lets say you found an NWA and its about 1000g and you get it tested and its a new NWN. Now you can say its rare because there is only 1000g, but do you really know that for sure? From what I have seen, its not the case, and NWAs keep getting paired with each other more time then not I think that's why I tend to stay away from NWA's for that reason and others. This issue is not unique to NWA meteorites. The same thing could be said for Antarctic or other desert finds. Yes, Antarctica is a desert. The same issue applies to falls. How much Allende is really out there? Nobody knows for sure, the same can be said for Murchison. You can make the same claim for just about any fall. I have seen collectors financially burned on falls many times, myself among them. I have lost more value by collecting new falls than I have collecting finds. This is why I tend to stay away from new falls. The price drops off sharply within a few months once the initial excitement disappears. I lost a small fortune on New Orleans and Claxton by letting the market determine the value by putting them up for auction with no reserves. Happy Hunting, Long live the finds because without them we would have no lunar meteorites, Adam Previous message: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! Next message: [meteorite-list] NEW RELEASE - The Day the Meteorite Fell in Sylacauga Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list Hello Greg S and Listers, Now the slight problem I have with NWA's is that you really don't know how much of that stuff is out there. That can work in your favor and against you. So lets say you found an NWA and its about 1000g and you get it tested and its a new NWN. Now you can say its rare because there is only 1000g, but do you really know that for sure? From what I have seen, its not the case, and NWAs keep getting paired with each other more time then not I think that's why I tend to stay away from NWA's for that reason and others. Plus it seems that every meteorite is unique in its own right and some bank off that uniqueness and rarity to pump up the price in the NWA market. But once more is found, that type isn't that rare anymore, so that's why I stick with the historic falls, cause that event can only happen once and there is a rich history and legacy to back up that meteorite. Also the NWA 5400 is speculated to have a connection with Earth. Now in my own opinion if this was the find of the century, wouldn't you think there would be more research papers written about this monumental find that s
[meteorite-list] Mars Rover Discovers another Meteorite
Nice article on the Rover's latest meteoric discovery... http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mars-rover-finds-sixth- meteorite-100927.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD -Many Great Auctions Ending Today
Dear List Members, I have 54 great auctions ending today started at just 99 cents with no reserve. I also have some fixed price auctions with the make offer option enabled. Please take a look if you have time. Link to all auctions: http://shop.ebay.com/raremeteorites!/m.html Thank you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck. Best Regards, Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection IMCA 2185 Team Lunar Rock __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
Shawn wrote: * Now the slight problem I have with NWA's is that you really don't know how much of that stuff is out there. That can work in your favor and against you. So lets say you found an NWA and its about 1000g and you get it tested and its a new NWN. Now you can say its rare because there is only 1000g, but do you really know that for sure? From what I have seen, its not the case, and NWAs keep getting paired with each other more time then not I think that's why I tend to stay away from NWA's for that reason and others. This issue is not unique to NWA meteorites. The same thing could be said for Antarctic or other desert finds. Yes, Antarctica is a desert. The same issue applies to falls. How much Allende is really out there? Nobody knows for sure, the same can be said for Murchison. You can make the same claim for just about any fall. I have seen collectors financially burned on falls many times, myself among them. I have lost more value by collecting new falls than I have collecting finds. This is why I tend to stay away from new falls. The price drops off sharply within a few months once the initial excitement disappears. I lost a small fortune on New Orleans and Claxton by letting the market determine the value by putting them up for auction with no reserves. Happy Hunting, Long live the finds because without them we would have no lunar meteorites, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NEW RELEASE - The Day the Meteorite Fell in Sylacauga
John C. Hall, curator of the Black Belt museum and former director at the Alabama NHM, has just published this well researched, truly interesting paper on the events in Sylacauga in 1954, which can be found here: http://museums.ua.edu/history/wordpress/ Well worth a read, and the photographs are stunning. It even includes a picture of the McKinneys. Best, Regine __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AD: new website + L3, L4, CR2 and R3.9 up for Trade
Hi List, I received the following question off-List, and would like to answer it on-List: Q: What are you looking for? A: Please see description at the top of the Trade/Sale page. Thanks, Rob - Original Message - From: "Rob Lenssen" To: Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 9:46 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: new website + L3, L4, CR2 and R3.9 up for Trade Dear List, I just added a Trade/Sale page to my new website www.AsteroidChippings.com , that has been up for about one week now. You are invited to have a look! Enjoy, Rob Lenssen IMCA #1681 www.AsteroidChippings.com PS: Feedback in case of problems when viewing is appreciated. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Denver Show: COMETS Auction/Party photos
You are welcome, Bernd! Regards, Bob Loeffler COMETS Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) http://www.peaktopeak.com/njeffco/index.php Webmaster and Asst. Dealer Chairman Denver Gem and Mineral Show http://www.DenverMineralShow.com Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/colorado/index.php3 -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of bernd.pa...@paulinet.de Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 1:07 PM To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Denver Show: COMETS Auction/Party photos Hi Bob and List, http://www.peaktopeak.com/comets/2010/2010show.htm Very much appreciated! Thanks for sharing! Bernd (just back fom his daughter's 42nd birthday :-) __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.856 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3143 - Release Date: 09/26/10 01:01:00 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Newly discovered Kamil Crater, Egypt
See these articles below - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/8026237/Meteor-crater-found-on-Google-Earth-could-help-prepare-for-future-impacts.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1315568/Massive-meteor-crater-discovered-spotted-Google-Earth.html http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/329/5993/804 Regards, Aubrey __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Australian Aboriginal Geomythology: Eyewitness Accounts of Cosmic Impacts?
More on Aboriginal Dreamings: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/02/100203-asteroid-collision-earth-global-cooling/ Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD - Very Interesting Auctions At Ebay Ending Today!
Hello List, i have some very interesting auctions at ebay ending today, there is a CR2, a nice slice of a very unusual Eucrite, a new CV and some more. It's worth to take a look: http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?rt=nc&LH_Auction=1&_ipg=25&_ssn=gipometeorites&_trksid=p3911.c0.m301 Many thanks for viewing, have a nice sunday Carsten -- Carsten Giessler Gipometeorites - www.gi-po.de - email: c-giess...@gi-po.de Member of the Meteoritical Society International Society for Meteoritics and Planetary Science IMCA Member:3457 International Meteorite Collectors Association __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 26, 2010
http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_26_2010.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] CA,AZ, NV,UT Meteor 24SEP2010
Dear Rob, John and List, The was most likely ONE meteor and no information about the duration of it has been suggested by anyone except Rob`s mis-intrepretation. The times that Rob is referring to are people`s search times (after the event) and nothing else. The only value of the search time is to know approximately when the event might have occurred prior. Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo Mike Bandli compiled search and witness information and created a Google Earth image posted at www.lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com Thank you Mike. I don`t see any other list members doing any work on this or at least reporting about their work. --- On Sun, 9/26/10, Rob Holcomb wrote: > From: Rob Holcomb > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: CA,AZ, NV,UT Meteor 24SEP2010 > To: "John.L.Cabassi" , "'drtanuki'" , > meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, September 26, 2010, 10:25 AM > That would be one amazing fireball, > persistence of over 30 minutes over > southern California? Probably a military launch rather than > a meteor. > After the Anti-Missile trials of Oct 2005, I don't trust > these reports that > aren't supported by radar. > > Have a great Sunday hunting the Sonoran desert! > > Rob > > -- > From: "John.L.Cabassi" > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 4:45 PM > To: "'drtanuki'" ; > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: CA,AZ, NV,UT Meteor > 24SEP2010 > > > G'Day Dirk and List > > Come on now, something finally crosses my area and > everything goes > > quiet. No radar images. It's a perfect weekend here in > LA. Clear skies, > > nice and hot. In fact, I'm sitting back waiting for > 9.41 tonight to > > watch the launch of Minotaur IV from Vandenberg AFB. > > > > Cheers > > John > > > > -Original Message- > > From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com > > [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] > On Behalf Of > > drtanuki > > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 10:31 PM > > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: CA,AZ, NV,UT Meteor > 24SEP2010 > > > > > > Dear List, > > Meteor detected in CA, AZ, and UT about one hour > ago. Dirk Ross...Tokyo > > > > > > Chino Valley, > Arizona meteor arizona > > 24 september 2010. > > > > 14:08:36 -- 25 seconds ago > > > > > > Hesperia, > California Fireball > > September, 24 2010. > > > > 14:06:18 -- 2 minutes ago > > > > > > San Bernardino, > California a meteor sightings > > sept 24 2010. > > > > 13:59:59 -- 9 minutes ago > > > > > > Los Angeles, > California fireball > > sightings in inland empire california sept 24 2010. > > > > 13:55:56 -- 13 minutes ago > > > > > > Lakeside, > California shooting star > > sightings sept. 24 2010. > > > > 13:43:38 -- 25 minutes ago > > > > > > Las Vegas, > Nevada meteor in > > california on september 24, 2010. > > > > 13:36:18 -- 32 minutes ago > > > > > > Lake Hughes, > California large meteor in > > West Sept 24 2010. > > > > 13:30:58 -- 38 minutes ago > > > > > > United States > glowing fireball > > over mi sept 24 2010. > > 13:29:56 -- 39 minutes ago > > > > > > Goodyear, > Arizona r Sep 24 2010 > > meteor sighting Phoenix Az 2010. > > > > 13:20:02 -- 48 minutes ago > > > > > > Chino Hills, > California meteor september > > 24 2010. > > > > 13:16:16 -- 52 minutes ago > > > > __ > > Visit the Archives at > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > __ > > Visit the Archives at > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > __ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 !
I have to agree with Greg H. on this one concerning O isotope data and pairing of 5400. Under normal conditions, the standard testing will work, but when it comes to the unusual nature of 5400 and 6292, more should be done. As NWA 6291 showed, you can not base the fact of pairing only on visual observations. Many questioned the pairing of it to the 2999 group due to the fact it was so unique from what is already a unique group among the angrite class - even though the same person did the testing on both samples. They dont look anything alike, yet are paired. I think with the large amount of 5363, some may be paired, but some may not if they were not recovered at the same time, but it will be a tough task to tell what material came from what stones unless good provenance has been kept. Paired or not, 5363 still is awesome material. I want a sample just to have because of the story that goes with it! Anyone got some that wants to trade? Send me an email off list! On a side note... Take a quick look at NWA 6291, 6292 and 6293. When is the last time you remember seeing 3 meteorites of such distinguished nature numbered together? Owning samples of all 3 made me think about this... Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sat, 9/25/10, Greg Hupe wrote: > From: Greg Hupe > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to NWA 5400 ! > To: "Peter Marmet" , "Greg Catterton" > , starsinthed...@aol.com > Cc: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, September 25, 2010, 5:06 PM > Hello Peter, GregC and Tom, > > Peter has it right, each and EVERY suspect 'pairing' to NWA > 5400 absolutely has to have oxygen isotope analysis > performed, on every stone. Most people do not know about the > additional stones that 'looked' like NWA 5400, but oxygen > work proved they were not paired. I even submitted samples > from additional stones I sampled while in Morocco two years > ago that 'looked' similar to NWA 5400, but oxygen analysis > later proved them to be 'just' brachinites. NWA 5400 is one > meteorite that requires these advanced analysis, no > shortcuts or visual 'pairing' will cut it. As Peter pointed > out, "...further studies are currently [being] made > concerning NWA 5363." In other words, oxygen isotope > analysis has not been completed so "NWA 5363" has not been > confirmed as a pairing [to NWA 5400]. The last discussion on > this List during the summer months stated that. Dr. Irving > had not yet received a sample of "NWA 5363". But then again, > which of the 30 stones, if any, were sampled and sent to > him? > > Since we know that NWA 5363 consists of 30 (thirty) > different stones totaling ~2kg, I and Dr. Irving, among > others, believe that each and every stone that is considered > as "NWA 5363" need to be individually studied and have > oxygen analysis performed, unless all 30 pieces fit neatly > together as a puzzle, which they do not. As we know, visual > comparisons do not make for a pairing even upon the 30 > pieces where only one stone was sampled. As Dr. Irving > stated, "NWA 5363" will always be a suspect meteorite > because of the unfinished work (no oxygen performed) and the > fact that there are 30 different stones that were visually > paired, tossed in a box, and then sold around the world as > being paired to the one sampled "NWA 5363" stone. > > I am not trying to further any negative discussions here, > these are just the facts. If I had a stone from "NWA 5363", > you bet I would send a piece of that particular rock and > have oxygen analysis performed, preferably by the same lab > where NWA 5400 was studied. Short of that, you have, or are > offering, unconfirmed stones which may or may not be paired > to the "NWA 5363" stone, much less NWA 5400. > > I will not engage into any further discussions here > regarding this topic. If you have concerns about your "NWA > 5363" stone, contact a scientist who is willing to study > your rock. > > Best regards, > Greg > > > Greg Hupe > The Hupe Collection > NaturesVault (eBay) > gmh...@htn.net > www.LunarRock.com > IMCA 3163 > > Click here for my current eBay auctions: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > - Original Message - From: "Peter Marmet" > To: "Greg Catterton" > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 12:13 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 6292 (BRA) IS paired to > NWA 5400 ! > > > Hello Tom, Greg and list, > > I know that further studies are currently made concerning > NWA 5363. I > also know that several recent finds are - strangely - NOT > paired to > NWA 5400, despite > the fact that they look very similar. > > Here you can see picts of NWA 5363 (please scroll down) and > NWA 6292 > (paired to NWA 5400!) > > http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/id41.html > > ...and h
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 25, 2010
Hey Rob, Another excellent display! And as always, "Thank You", Michael, for your Pictures of the Day!! Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmh...@htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault - Original Message - From: "Michael Johnson" To: Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 11:57 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 25,2010 http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_25_2010.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.856 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3156 - Release Date: 09/24/10 02:34:00 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
