[meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of Day - March 14, 2011
http://www.rocksfromspace.org/March_14_2011.html --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Racetrack Playa redux
Just wanted to share a few images of Racetrack Playa in Death Valley. These are some experimental photos using infrared film and BW paper. http://4-kats.homeip.net/Racetrack/ Rob H __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Oman prison saga
Welcome back Mike and Robert. I was unaware of your ordeal until last week. I am glad that you two made it out unharmed. A little lighter perhaps but now safe and sound. I know it's not the most important thing but I have to ask. Did the authorities let you keep the meteorites you found or where they confiscated and not returned? -Walter Branch - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 11:36 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Oman prison saga 90% of the meteorite list is interested in the Oman meteorite saga that Robert Ward and Michael Farmer went through from our arrest in early January until our release ordered on March 7th 2011. This is my story, Robert can tell his, as it is a little different as we were separated, interrogated, and housed apart for more than half of the event. On December 31st we headed for Oman, my 20th meteorite hunting expedition there. I have studied the law there since the arrest of the Russian and American hunters back in 2005. There is no law against meteorite hunting in Oman, those who asked why we keep doing it, that is why. It is legal. After months of meeting with lawyers, looking at Oman law, I think we know what we are talking about. We had a very successful trip, I found 35 meteorites, 3 pieces of the Dhofar 1180 Lunar, more than 100 grams, and some other nice things. On the last day we headed out of the desert and towards Dubai. At 1 PM on 13 January we arrived at a police roadblock in Adam, nothing out of the norm, until they rushed my car with M16's and they had heavy belt-fed guns on their trucks. They forced us out of our cars and ripped them apart of course, finding the meteorites immediately. We were taken to the Adam police station and interrogated for 10 hours. The Wali (governor) of the area arrived and was very upset at our confinement, he kept apologizing to us and saying he did not understand why we were being arrested and kept calling Muscat to try and get us released, he was angry at tourists being detained in his district. He then informed that orders from much higher in the government came in that we were to be taken to Muscat and it was out of his hands. The roadblock was for us, they had intel that we were coming. I have intel on who did it.. We were driven to Muscat in shackles, arriving at midnight, taken to an interrogation center in Qurum. Stripped, put into separate rooms, and never saw each other again for the next 25 days except when the embassy came, our lawyers came, or we were taken to the hospital a couple of times. Qurum Criminal Investigation Division is little more than a torture chamber, we heard many times people being beaten, and dragged around. I was interrogated in a conference room after more than 72 hours without sleep. We were kept in small rooms, 9 x 9 x 12 ft, with small pad on the floor and two blankets, horribly filthy, crawling with roaches, and things on the floors and walls which I decline to try to describe. There were 4 rooms, Robert and I in two, and other people in the others, we could hear them crying or screaming sometimes. I tried to speak to Robert a couple of times just to see if he was there, and he would yell he was, then the police would come and threaten me not to speak again, this went on for 25 days and nights, 24 hours a day in that room, cold, a small light on 24/7 you never knew the time of day except when food would come. It was a nightmare that never seemed to end. I was close to losing it, never did, but my military training kicked in and helped with that. It was more than 48 hours since our arrest that I was interrogated, forced to sign a statement of guilt, then driven to a prosecutor's office at midnight on the 15th of Jan. No phone calls in that time, no chance to see lawyer or embassy despite endless pleas. I was charged with various crimes again with no chance to see lawyer beforehand. I begged the prosecutor for a call and he refused, then thankfully after he sent me out into a waiting room, another person handed me a cell phone quietly so I called my wife and in 20 seconds told her I was in jail in Muscat, and to call for help to the embassy,. It took a week for the embassy to find us. Oman violated many laws, they are required to provide lawyer before charges are filed, and contact embassy within 24 hours, neither done. After that, the endless days passed in hell, the toilet a hole in the ground and I will leave the rest to your imagination. We went to trial on 6 Feb, a 15 minute joke in Arabic with one question asked by the judge, who then sentenced us to 6 months in prison and a $250 fine for illegal mining operations. We were sent the next day to the Sumail central prison. Once we arrived at the prison, Robert and I were placed together in a room, for the first time we could talk at will, see the sky and see
[meteorite-list] AD: British museum photo cards from 1922 depicting British meteorites for sale/trade
Hi all, I still have one set of these photo cards available for sale or trade. These meteorite photocards were Issued by the British Museum in 1922. They are in excellent condition and come in the envelope they were issued in. They really are superb and look much better in hand than in photos. Not very often seen for sale if at all i am asking for $175 including shipping. See photos at the link below: (http://s1130.photobucket.com/albums/m531/msg-meteorites/?albumview=slideshow) I am open to trade offers so drop me a line if interested. -- Martin Goff www.msg-meteorites.co.uk IMCA #3387 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Oman prison saga
Michael, Robert, Wow! what a very important story you share with us all. Good to see there was a happy ending, for the most part. Thank you very much. Roman Jirasek -- From: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 11:36 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Oman prison saga 90% of the meteorite list is interested in the Oman meteorite saga that Robert Ward and Michael Farmer went through from our arrest in early January until our release ordered on March 7th 2011. This is my story, Robert can tell his, as it is a little different as we were separated, interrogated, and housed apart for more than half of the event. On December 31st we headed for Oman, my 20th meteorite hunting expedition there. I have studied the law there since the arrest of the Russian and American hunters back in 2005. There is no law against meteorite hunting in Oman, those who asked why we keep doing it, that is why. It is legal. After months of meeting with lawyers, looking at Oman law, I think we know what we are talking about. We had a very successful trip, I found 35 meteorites, 3 pieces of the Dhofar 1180 Lunar, more than 100 grams, and some other nice things. On the last day we headed out of the desert and towards Dubai. At 1 PM on 13 January we arrived at a police roadblock in Adam, nothing out of the norm, until they rushed my car with M16's and they had heavy belt-fed guns on their trucks. They forced us out of our cars and ripped them apart of course, finding the meteorites immediately. We were taken to the Adam police station and interrogated for 10 hours. The Wali (governor) of the area arrived and was very upset at our confinement, he kept apologizing to us and saying he did not understand why we were being arrested and kept calling Muscat to try and get us released, he was angry at tourists being detained in his district. He then informed that orders from much higher in the government came in that we were to be taken to Muscat and it was out of his hands. The roadblock was for us, they had intel that we were coming. I have intel on who did it.. We were driven to Muscat in shackles, arriving at midnight, taken to an interrogation center in Qurum. Stripped, put into separate rooms, and never saw each other again for the next 25 days except when the embassy came, our lawyers came, or we were taken to the hospital a couple of times. Qurum Criminal Investigation Division is little more than a torture chamber, we heard many times people being beaten, and dragged around. I was interrogated in a conference room after more than 72 hours without sleep. We were kept in small rooms, 9 x 9 x 12 ft, with small pad on the floor and two blankets, horribly filthy, crawling with roaches, and things on the floors and walls which I decline to try to describe. There were 4 rooms, Robert and I in two, and other people in the others, we could hear them crying or screaming sometimes. I tried to speak to Robert a couple of times just to see if he was there, and he would yell he was, then the police would come and threaten me not to speak again, this went on for 25 days and nights, 24 hours a day in that room, cold, a small light on 24/7 you never knew the time of day except when food would come. It was a nightmare that never seemed to end. I was close to losing it, never did, but my military training kicked in and helped with that. It was more than 48 hours since our arrest that I was interrogated, forced to sign a statement of guilt, then driven to a prosecutor's office at midnight on the 15th of Jan. No phone calls in that time, no chance to see lawyer or embassy despite endless pleas. I was charged with various crimes again with no chance to see lawyer beforehand. I begged the prosecutor for a call and he refused, then thankfully after he sent me out into a waiting room, another person handed me a cell phone quietly so I called my wife and in 20 seconds told her I was in jail in Muscat, and to call for help to the embassy,. It took a week for the embassy to find us. Oman violated many laws, they are required to provide lawyer before charges are filed, and contact embassy within 24 hours, neither done. After that, the endless days passed in hell, the toilet a hole in the ground and I will leave the rest to your imagination. We went to trial on 6 Feb, a 15 minute joke in Arabic with one question asked by the judge, who then sentenced us to 6 months in prison and a $250 fine for illegal mining operations. We were sent the next day to the Sumail central prison. Once we arrived at the prison, Robert and I were placed together in a room, for the first time we could talk at will, see the sky and see other people. We were in a brand new American made ultra-max type prison. It was quite nice if you can call prison nice. Clean, new, but full. Usually around 200 people in
Re: [meteorite-list] Oman prison saga
Walter, Ask them again in 3 months and 1 day. (wink,wink) Elton - Original Message From: Walter Branch waltbra...@bellsouth.net To: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 6:14:33 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Oman prison saga . important thing but I have to ask. Did the authorities let you keep the meteorites you found or where they confiscated and not returned? -Walter Branch __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Breja are sold
Aloha and mahalo to everyone who expressed interest in Breja stones, but all specimens have been sold! Gary Fujihara Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693) 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/ http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html (808) 640-9161 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] ad : 121 gr achondrite to see great one
hello all enjoy http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/ aziz h __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Oman prison saga
Mike and Robert, Welcome back. I agree with Ruben in that nobody I spoke with about you guys wanted to see you imprisoned. In fact between you and the shootings of Gabby and company the mood at the Tucson Show was that of civility. for the past twenty years I have never missed the show but, this year was a special one. The sadness felt for you guys was evident every day of the show. People shared good stories about you two and everyone wished for your safe speedy return. I know I longed to hear what you had to say in your personal phone calls to Jim Strope. This gave us all hope. Hopefully the civility inspired by the two of you along with Gabby and the rest will last. I commented on this before that this years Tucson was the friendliest ever. Welcome back guys. I think we are all better people from your suffering. 40 pound weight loss. Man , you might be able to sell that diet plan? Ha ha Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: 90% of the meteorite list is interested in the Oman meteorite saga that Robert Ward and Michael Farmer went through from our arrest in early January until our release ordered on March 7th 2011. This is my story, Robert can tell his, as it is a little different as we were separated, interrogated, and housed apart for more than half of the event. On December 31st we headed for Oman, my 20th meteorite hunting expedition there. I have studied the law there since the arrest of the Russian and American hunters back in 2005. There is no law against meteorite hunting in Oman, those who asked why we keep doing it, that is why. It is legal. After months of meeting with lawyers, looking at Oman law, I think we know what we are talking about. We had a very successful trip, I found 35 meteorites, 3 pieces of the Dhofar 1180 Lunar, more than 100 grams, and some other nice things. On the last day we headed out of the desert and towards Dubai. At 1 PM on 13 January we arrived at a police roadblock in Adam, nothing out of the norm, until they rushed my car with M16's and they had heavy belt-fed guns on their trucks. They forced us out of our cars and ripped them apart of course, finding the meteorites immediately. We were taken to the Adam police station and interrogated for 10 hours. The Wali (governor) of the area arrived and was very upset at our confinement, he kept apologizing to us and saying he did not understand why we were being arrested and kept calling Muscat to try and get us released, he was angry at tourists being detained in his district. He then informed that orders from much higher in the government came in that we were to be taken to Muscat and it was out of his hands. The roadblock was for us, they had intel that we were coming. I have intel on who did it.. We were driven to Muscat in shackles, arriving at midnight, taken to an interrogation center in Qurum. Stripped, put into separate rooms, and never saw each other again for the next 25 days except when the embassy came, our lawyers came, or we were taken to the hospital a couple of times. Qurum Criminal Investigation Division is little more than a torture chamber, we heard many times people being beaten, and dragged around. I was interrogated in a conference room after more than 72 hours without sleep. We were kept in small rooms, 9 x 9 x 12 ft, with small pad on the floor and two blankets, horribly filthy, crawling with roaches, and things on the floors and walls which I decline to try to describe. There were 4 rooms, Robert and I in two, and other people in the others, we could hear them crying or screaming sometimes. I tried to speak to Robert a couple of times just to see if he was there, and he would yell he was, then the police would come and threaten me not to speak again, this went on for 25 days and nights, 24 hours a day in that room, cold, a small light on 24/7 you never knew the time of day except when food would come. It was a nightmare that never seemed to end. I was close to losing it, never did, but my military training kicked in and helped with that. It was more than 48 hours since our arrest that I was interrogated, forced to sign a statement of guilt, then driven to a prosecutor's office at midnight on the 15th of Jan. No phone calls in that time, no chance to see lawyer or embassy despite endless pleas. I was charged with various crimes again with no chance to see lawyer beforehand. I begged the prosecutor for a call and he refused, then thankfully after he sent me out into a waiting room, another person handed me a cell phone quietly so I called my wife and in 20 seconds told her I was in jail in Muscat, and to call for help to the embassy,. It took a week for the embassy to find us. Oman violated many laws, they are required to provide lawyer before charges are filed, and contact embassy within 24 hours, neither
Re: [meteorite-list] Oman prison saga
Hi Mike, Robert and List, I concur with what some of the others said - I don't recall anyone being happy you guys were sitting in an Omani prison. Of course, when the news got around, people did talk about it, and it did result in the expected debates about hunting, legalities, and the like. Eventually, everyone just shut up about it in public because we didn't want to add to your problem. Now that both of you are back home and safe, everything can return to normal - or what passes for normal in the meteorite world. I don't think anyone would wish a foreign prison on their worst enemy, and if there are people out there who were happy to see you guys rot in a cell, then I would not want to have anything to do with such people. Now, get some rest, try to unwind, and get out there and find the first American lunar. :) Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 3/14/11, cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: Mike and Robert, Welcome back. I agree with Ruben in that nobody I spoke with about you guys wanted to see you imprisoned. In fact between you and the shootings of Gabby and company the mood at the Tucson Show was that of civility. for the past twenty years I have never missed the show but, this year was a special one. The sadness felt for you guys was evident every day of the show. People shared good stories about you two and everyone wished for your safe speedy return. I know I longed to hear what you had to say in your personal phone calls to Jim Strope. This gave us all hope. Hopefully the civility inspired by the two of you along with Gabby and the rest will last. I commented on this before that this years Tucson was the friendliest ever. Welcome back guys. I think we are all better people from your suffering. 40 pound weight loss. Man , you might be able to sell that diet plan? Ha ha Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: 90% of the meteorite list is interested in the Oman meteorite saga that Robert Ward and Michael Farmer went through from our arrest in early January until our release ordered on March 7th 2011. This is my story, Robert can tell his, as it is a little different as we were separated, interrogated, and housed apart for more than half of the event. On December 31st we headed for Oman, my 20th meteorite hunting expedition there. I have studied the law there since the arrest of the Russian and American hunters back in 2005. There is no law against meteorite hunting in Oman, those who asked why we keep doing it, that is why. It is legal. After months of meeting with lawyers, looking at Oman law, I think we know what we are talking about. We had a very successful trip, I found 35 meteorites, 3 pieces of the Dhofar 1180 Lunar, more than 100 grams, and some other nice things. On the last day we headed out of the desert and towards Dubai. At 1 PM on 13 January we arrived at a police roadblock in Adam, nothing out of the norm, until they rushed my car with M16's and they had heavy belt-fed guns on their trucks. They forced us out of our cars and ripped them apart of course, finding the meteorites immediately. We were taken to the Adam police station and interrogated for 10 hours. The Wali (governor) of the area arrived and was very upset at our confinement, he kept apologizing to us and saying he did not understand why we were being arrested and kept calling Muscat to try and get us released, he was angry at tourists being detained in his district. He then informed that orders from much higher in the government came in that we were to be taken to Muscat and it was out of his hands. The roadblock was for us, they had intel that we were coming. I have intel on who did it.. We were driven to Muscat in shackles, arriving at midnight, taken to an interrogation center in Qurum. Stripped, put into separate rooms, and never saw each other again for the next 25 days except when the embassy came, our lawyers came, or we were taken to the hospital a couple of times. Qurum Criminal Investigation Division is little more than a torture chamber, we heard many times people being beaten, and dragged around. I was interrogated in a conference room after more than 72 hours without sleep. We were kept in small rooms, 9 x 9 x 12 ft, with small pad on the floor and two blankets, horribly filthy, crawling with roaches, and things on the floors and walls which I decline to try to describe. There were 4 rooms, Robert and I in two, and
[meteorite-list] Research Finds Asteroid Itokawa Is An Ancient Rock
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n1103/13hayabusa/ Research finds asteroid Itokawa is an ancient rock BY STEPHEN CLARK SPACEFLIGHT NOW March 13, 2011 A preliminary analysis of asteroid samples returned last year by Japan's Hayabusa probe show evidence the dust grains have a similar composition to stony meteorites that commonly fall to Earth. Hayabusa returned to Earth last June with a fiery plunge into the Australia outback. The seven-year robotic mission surveyed asteroid Itokawa, a potato-shaped rock about the size of a city block. The initial research also shows the samples inspected so far contain no organic molecules. Scientists also say the analysis confirms the rocks at Itokawa were formed 4.6 billion years ago at the dawn of the solar system. Researchers believe Itokawa itself was formed when several existing smaller bodies accreted into a larger asteroid. Scientists describe such asteroids as rubble pile objects. The early results were presented last week at the Lunar and Planetary Science conference in Houston. Hayabusa was intended to approach the surface of Itokawa, fire a pellet into the regolith and collect bits of rock in a funnel leading to the spacecraft's sample chamber. But in two sampling attempts in late 2005, the projectile didn't fire and scientists feared the mission was a failure. A crippling fuel leak, ion engine failures, reaction wheel glitches, battery issues and a two-month communications loss challenged mission controllers during Hayabusa's flight. Officials had to delay the mission's return to Earth from 2007 until 2010 to deal with the issues. An analysis of telemetry later showed Hayabusa landed on Itokawa for up to a half-hour during one of the sampling attempts, giving scientists renewed hope the probe may have gathered some small dust grains in its time on the asteroid. Researchers confirmed their hopes last year when they opened Hayabusa's sample return capsule in a clean room in Sagamihara, Japan. They found at least 1,500 individual grains, most of which were confirmed to be from asteroid Itokawa. Most of the particles were less than 10 microns in diameter, but a few samples were 100 microns or larger, comparable to the width of a strand of human hair, according to papers presented by Japanese scientists. Teams started their preliminary analyses of the samples in January and expect to finish their first round of examinations by June at the curation facility in Sagamihara. The material will then be distributed to other research sites for further study. NASA will get about 10 percent of the material in return for U.S. contributions to the mission's operations and sample recovery efforts. Hayabusa was the first mission to retrieve samples from the surface of an asteroid and bring them back to Earth. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Oman prison saga
Good afternoon Mike, Robert and Folks, MikeG echoes my sentiments exactly. Its great to have you guys back safe and sound. Welcome back. Best regards, Paul Martyn, Savannah GA In a message dated 3/14/2011 3:01:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, meteoritem...@gmail.com writes: Hi Mike, Robert and List, I concur with what some of the others said - I don't recall anyone being happy you guys were sitting in an Omani prison. Of course, when the news got around, people did talk about it, and it did result in the expected debates about hunting, legalities, and the like. Eventually, everyone just shut up about it in public because we didn't want to add to your problem. Now that both of you are back home and safe, everything can return to normal - or what passes for normal in the meteorite world. I don't think anyone would wish a foreign prison on their worst enemy, and if there are people out there who were happy to see you guys rot in a cell, then I would not want to have anything to do with such people. Now, get some rest, try to unwind, and get out there and find the first American lunar. :) Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Oman prison saga
Yes it is good to have them home safe and sound. I would not wish a foreign prison on anybody!! (well maybe Osama or Gadahfi):-) Welcome Home!! Stuart McDaniel Galactic Stone and Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Mike, Robert and List, I concur with what some of the others said - I don't recall anyone being happy you guys were sitting in an Omani prison. Of course, when the news got around, people did talk about it, and it did result in the expected debates about hunting, legalities, and the like. Eventually, everyone just shut up about it in public because we didn't want to add to your problem. Now that both of you are back home and safe, everything can return to normal - or what passes for normal in the meteorite world. I don't think anyone would wish a foreign prison on their worst enemy, and if there are people out there who were happy to see you guys rot in a cell, then I would not want to have anything to do with such people. Now, get some rest, try to unwind, and get out there and find the first American lunar. :) Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 3/14/11, cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: Mike and Robert, Welcome back. I agree with Ruben in that nobody I spoke with about you guys wanted to see you imprisoned. In fact between you and the shootings of Gabby and company the mood at the Tucson Show was that of civility. for the past twenty years I have never missed the show but, this year was a special one. The sadness felt for you guys was evident every day of the show. People shared good stories about you two and everyone wished for your safe speedy return. I know I longed to hear what you had to say in your personal phone calls to Jim Strope. This gave us all hope. Hopefully the civility inspired by the two of you along with Gabby and the rest will last. I commented on this before that this years Tucson was the friendliest ever. Welcome back guys. I think we are all better people from your suffering. 40 pound weight loss. Man , you might be able to sell that diet plan? Ha ha Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: 90% of the meteorite list is interested in the Oman meteorite saga that Robert Ward and Michael Farmer went through from our arrest in early January until our release ordered on March 7th 2011. This is my story, Robert can tell his, as it is a little different as we were separated, interrogated, and housed apart for more than half of the event. On December 31st we headed for Oman, my 20th meteorite hunting expedition there. I have studied the law there since the arrest of the Russian and American hunters back in 2005. There is no law against meteorite hunting in Oman, those who asked why we keep doing it, that is why. It is legal. After months of meeting with lawyers, looking at Oman law, I think we know what we are talking about. We had a very successful trip, I found 35 meteorites, 3 pieces of the Dhofar 1180 Lunar, more than 100 grams, and some other nice things. On the last day we headed out of the desert and towards Dubai. At 1 PM on 13 January we arrived at a police roadblock in Adam, nothing out of the norm, until they rushed my car with M16's and they had heavy belt-fed guns on their trucks. They forced us out of our cars and ripped them apart of course, finding the meteorites immediately. We were taken to the Adam police station and interrogated for 10 hours. The Wali (governor) of the area arrived and was very upset at our confinement, he kept apologizing to us and saying he did not understand why we were being arrested and kept calling Muscat to try and get us released, he was angry at tourists being detained in his district. He then informed that orders from much higher in the government came in that we were to be taken to Muscat and it was out of his hands. The roadblock was for us, they had intel that we were coming. I have intel on who did it.. We were driven to Muscat in shackles, arriving at midnight, taken to an interrogation center in Qurum. Stripped, put into separate rooms, and never saw each other again for the next 25 days except when the embassy came, our lawyers came, or we were taken to the hospital a couple of times. Qurum Criminal Investigation Division is little more than a torture chamber, we heard many times people being beaten, and dragged
Re: [meteorite-list] ad : 121 gr achondrite to see great one
That is an awesome piece!!! Stuart McD. habibi abdelaziz azizhab...@yahoo.com wrote: hello all enjoy http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/ aziz h __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Oman prison saga
Wow Michael - what an incredible story. I'm so glad both you and Robert are home safe and sound. Just makes you think how good we have it in here in American, and at times many take it for granted. I wish both of you many safe and successful hunting adventures in the future and look forward to be seeing you next year in Tucson. Greg S. Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 20:36:30 -0700 From: m...@meteoriteguy.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Oman prison saga 90% of the meteorite list is interested in the Oman meteorite saga that Robert Ward and Michael Farmer went through from our arrest in early January until our release ordered on March 7th 2011. This is my story, Robert can tell his, as it is a little different as we were separated, interrogated, and housed apart for more than half of the event. On December 31st we headed for Oman, my 20th meteorite hunting expedition there. I have studied the law there since the arrest of the Russian and American hunters back in 2005. There is no law against meteorite hunting in Oman, those who asked why we keep doing it, that is why. It is legal. After months of meeting with lawyers, looking at Oman law, I think we know what we are talking about. We had a very successful trip, I found 35 meteorites, 3 pieces of the Dhofar 1180 Lunar, more than 100 grams, and some other nice things. On the last day we headed out of the desert and towards Dubai. At 1 PM on 13 January we arrived at a police roadblock in Adam, nothing out of the norm, until they rushed my car with M16's and they had heavy belt-fed guns on their trucks. They forced us out of our cars and ripped them apart of course, finding the meteorites immediately. We were taken to the Adam police station and interrogated for 10 hours. The Wali (governor) of the area arrived and was very upset at our confinement, he kept apologizing to us and saying he did not understand why we were being arrested and kept calling Muscat to try and get us released, he was angry at tourists being detained in his district. He then informed that orders from much higher in the government came in that we were to be taken to Muscat and it was out of his hands. The roadblock was for us, they had intel that we were coming. I have intel on who did it.. We were driven to Muscat in shackles, arriving at midnight, taken to an interrogation center in Qurum. Stripped, put into separate rooms, and never saw each other again for the next 25 days except when the embassy came, our lawyers came, or we were taken to the hospital a couple of times. Qurum Criminal Investigation Division is little more than a torture chamber, we heard many times people being beaten, and dragged around. I was interrogated in a conference room after more than 72 hours without sleep. We were kept in small rooms, 9 x 9 x 12 ft, with small pad on the floor and two blankets, horribly filthy, crawling with roaches, and things on the floors and walls which I decline to try to describe. There were 4 rooms, Robert and I in two, and other people in the others, we could hear them crying or screaming sometimes. I tried to speak to Robert a couple of times just to see if he was there, and he would yell he was, then the police would come and threaten me not to speak again, this went on for 25 days and nights, 24 hours a day in that room, cold, a small light on 24/7 you never knew the time of day except when food would come. It was a nightmare that never seemed to end. I was close to losing it, never did, but my military training kicked in and helped with that. It was more than 48 hours since our arrest that I was interrogated, forced to sign a statement of guilt, then driven to a prosecutor's office at midnight on the 15th of Jan. No phone calls in that time, no chance to see lawyer or embassy despite endless pleas. I was charged with various crimes again with no chance to see lawyer beforehand. I begged the prosecutor for a call and he refused, then thankfully after he sent me out into a waiting room, another person handed me a cell phone quietly so I called my wife and in 20 seconds told her I was in jail in Muscat, and to call for help to the embassy,. It took a week for the embassy to find us. Oman violated many laws, they are required to provide lawyer before charges are filed, and contact embassy within 24 hours, neither done. After that, the endless days passed in hell, the toilet a hole in the ground and I will leave the rest to your imagination. We went to trial on 6 Feb, a 15 minute joke in Arabic with one question asked by the judge, who then sentenced us to 6 months in prison and a $250 fine for illegal mining operations. We were sent the next day to the Sumail central prison. Once we arrived at the prison, Robert and I were placed together in a room, for the first time we could
[meteorite-list] Oman Prison Saga
Hi Mike Robert, Glad you are both home and safe and sound. What a story! Do you happen to know WHY you were targeted by the Omani cops? Best regards, Charley Butterfield Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's try elephants ! Hannibal __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Omani Prison Saga
They're sending a message to meteorite hunters that we don't want your kind in these parts. If they just wanted the meteorites they'd have taken them and let M R go. Just my two riyals, Phil Whitmer -- Hi Mike Robert, Glad you are both home and safe and sound. What a story! Do you happen to know WHY you were targeted by the Omani cops? Best regards, Charley Butterfield Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's try elephants ! Hannibal __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Omani Prison Saga
I think Phil is probably right on that count. They (the authorities) were making an example out of Mike and Rob, and they were also sending a message. I think that message is pretty clear, despite the fact that apparently it is not illegal yet to remove Omani meteorites. Ask anyone who has been wrongly accused of a crime and they will tell you that the actual law has very little to do with what the authorities can/will do. On 3/14/11, JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com wrote: They're sending a message to meteorite hunters that we don't want your kind in these parts. If they just wanted the meteorites they'd have taken them and let M R go. Just my two riyals, Phil Whitmer -- Hi Mike Robert, Glad you are both home and safe and sound. What a story! Do you happen to know WHY you were targeted by the Omani cops? Best regards, Charley Butterfield Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's try elephants ! Hannibal __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Jacksonville, IL
Howdy all A semi-shameless, semi-plug here... Just wanted to point this out and remind y'all that this event is still out there. And that the snow should be melting soon if it hasn't already. I plan on getting up there myself, but I don't know when and the more eyes on the ground the better. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2011/pdf/1130.pdf Cheers, Marc Fries __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Oman notes.
We were not allowed to keep anything other than really the clothes on our backs and our luggage (except Robert's brand new metal $1200 case, they decided that was just a little too nice). I lost my Iphone, Ipad, Ipod, Satellite phone, camera, 3 GPS units, and many other items. It seems Ipods are mining gear. I estimate more than $10,000 in my own gear alone, not to mention all camping gear. Total financial cost to me of this trip is now well over $30,000 with lawyers, plane tickets, car costs etc. Cell phone bills of more than $4000 as all calls from Oman were made on my Iphone. Loss at the Tucson show more than $50,000 down from last year's sales. Other costs such as fear to me and my family are not possible to calculate. I had found 3 pieces of the Dhofar 1180 Lunar meteorite on this trip, more than 2 km from the original find site, exciting as now a confirmed strewnfield. When the police took us into custody and began looting our cars, all meteorite bags were dumped out, all scientific data lost for about 50 % of the meteorites since they mixed them up. I saw the three Lunar meteorites get dumped into a pile of rocks them trown in a trash bag. I tried to stop the police from mixing them all up but they laughed and told me to shut up. Oman could care less about their meteorites. I am sure they were likely thrown into a dumpster to tell you the truth. We found more meteorites in 10 days than the Omani/Swiss team usually find in 3 weeks with 5 times the people. But I guess they need it all for themselves. I missed most of you at the gem show, but no matter, will be in Ensisheim and Saint Marie aux Mines show in France in June, see all of my European friends there. Tucson 2012 will arrive before we know it and I will try too avoid a trip just before that show:) I want to thank so many who dropped everything, taking the 3 am phone calls from Oman, paying the bills, doing the gem show for me, and doing everything needed to keep my wife busy and focused on getting by alone. You all know who you are. Michael Farmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Gebel Kamil
Jason, The following is a quote from a blog by John Blennert. If you google the following quote you can see where I copied it from. It clearly states that meteorite collecting on public land is legal but, has some limitations as per the BLM stated rules here ; BLM and I assume the Forest Service lands view meteorites the same way ( although every ones views may vary from officer to officer and district to district ). Here is what is in writing in BLM/AZ/GI-98/006 Free Rock, Mineral Semi-Precious Gemstone Collection Limits 1)The specimens are for personal use and are not collected for commercial purposes or bartered to commercial dealers. Limits are set for personal use at up to 25 pounds per day with a total of 250 pounds per year. These are the restrictions for rock collecting and rocks are what the BLM and I believe the Forest Service classes meteorites as. Again, If you insist on talking about the US maybe this clarifies things for you. Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com wrote: Carl, Legal precedents in the US suggest that meteorites belong to the person upon whose land they are found. As we found out with the recent Lorton fall, renting the land upon which a meteorite falls apparently gives someone adequate claim to ownership. If you want to be nit-picky, we can break it down, but the answer is still the same: you do not have the right to claim ownership of *any* meteorite found on public land in the US. The BLM is under the jurisdiction of the US Dept. of the Interior and, as such, it is a federal government program. While each state has its own sub-BLM department, they are technically an extension of the federal government, and any meteorite found on BLM land belongs to the federal government (and thus the Smithsonian). There is no such thing as public land, in the sense that you seem to be suggesting, Carl. Public land is not free meteorite hunting territory. It is either owned by the country, state, county, or city, meaning that a meteorite found on such land would belong to...one of those organizations. Whether you're on BLM land, state trust land, or sitting in a city park, you're standing on land that belongs to a governmental organization, and any meteorite found on said land would legally be deemed lawfully theirs. If what MikeG said is true, then it's true. I just find it hard to believe granted that the export of Libyan desert glass from Egypt wasn't made illicit until people started realizing that neolithic tools made of it were being shipped out of Egypt as well. The entire controversy surrounding the glass had nothing to do with the export of the glass in general, but rather pertained to the export of artifacts made of the glass. Things with cultural value. And now its export is prohibited. Regards, Jason On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 7:52 AM, cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: Jason, PLEASE!!! YOU said; 4) In light of that fact that the US owns all meteorites found on public land, by the logic of your statement, it should be illegal to export (or own) any meteorite found on public land in the US. After all, if all meteorites found on public land belong to the US government, then, surely, one cannot legally export them. This statement you make here is completely FALSE. Where on Earth did you ever see this? The US Government only owns meteorites found on FEDERAL USA land. Not on public land. That makes a huge difference. This means NATIONAL PARKS and not many of us ever hunt on federal lands to begin with. It has been posted umpteen times that State lands allow meteorite hunting and ownership is *never* questioned . In fact there are specific quotas or amounts of material they allow you to take off public State land. I seem to remember it being 20 pounds per year or something like that. (BLM) But to be very clear here. It is NOT illegal to hunt on state owned land and for you to say so is as you would put it. WELL, WRONG! I still believe that the Egyptian Government does not allow ANYTHING to be taken. Meteorites would fall generally under the ANYTHING category? ?? Maybe? Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com wrote: Carl, You don't seem to understand what I'm saying. 1) The Egyptian government has made no claims regarding meteorite ownership. The questionable claims were made by a few Egyptian professors. No one with official governmental standing has said anything. 2) Egypt has no laws in place (currently) that address the ownership of meteorites. Well, none published. They tend to be good with such things, and I can only assume that owning an Egyptian meteorite is legal since it has historically never been an issue, and the government has yet to make any sort of statement about it. -- You seem to be suggesting that Egypt
[meteorite-list] (AD) BOB HAAG CATALOGS
Good eveing list.I am looking for any bob haag meteorite catalogs that you'd be willing to give up or sell.Please off list.Thanks so much and have a great evening. Steve R.Arnold, Chicago! __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Oman notes.
Amazing story Mike. YIKES!! Glad you and Robert have returned home safely! My best to you and yoursand Robert's too!! Kirk.:-) - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 10:58 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Oman notes. We were not allowed to keep anything other than really the clothes on our backs and our luggage (except Robert's brand new metal $1200 case, they decided that was just a little too nice). I lost my Iphone, Ipad, Ipod, Satellite phone, camera, 3 GPS units, and many other items. It seems Ipods are mining gear. I estimate more than $10,000 in my own gear alone, not to mention all camping gear. Total financial cost to me of this trip is now well over $30,000 with lawyers, plane tickets, car costs etc. Cell phone bills of more than $4000 as all calls from Oman were made on my Iphone. Loss at the Tucson show more than $50,000 down from last year's sales. Other costs such as fear to me and my family are not possible to calculate. I had found 3 pieces of the Dhofar 1180 Lunar meteorite on this trip, more than 2 km from the original find site, exciting as now a confirmed strewnfield. When the police took us into custody and began looting our cars, all meteorite bags were dumped out, all scientific data lost for about 50 % of the meteorites since they mixed them up. I saw the three Lunar meteorites get dumped into a pile of rocks them trown in a trash bag. I tried to stop the police from mixing them all up but they laughed and told me to shut up. Oman could care less about their meteorites. I am sure they were likely thrown into a dumpster to tell you the truth. We found more meteorites in 10 days than the Omani/Swiss team usually find in 3 weeks with 5 times the people. But I guess they need it all for themselves. I missed most of you at the gem show, but no matter, will be in Ensisheim and Saint Marie aux Mines show in France in June, see all of my European friends there. Tucson 2012 will arrive before we know it and I will try too avoid a trip just before that show:) I want to thank so many who dropped everything, taking the 3 am phone calls from Oman, paying the bills, doing the gem show for me, and doing everything needed to keep my wife busy and focused on getting by alone. You all know who you are. Michael Farmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Blue/Green Fireballs California/ Serbia 14MAR2011- Texas 12MAR2011
Dear List, Here are some of the latest that have been reported. California http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/03/california-meteor-14mar2011.html Serbia http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/03/belgrade-serbia-blue-meteor-14mar2011.html Texas 12MAR2011 http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/03/texas-green-fireball-meteor-pm.html Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Oldest Objects in Solar System Indicate a Turbulent Beginning
https://www.llnl.gov/news/newsreleases/2011/Mar/NR-11-03-02.html Oldest objects in solar system indicate a turbulent beginning For immediate release: 03/03/2011 | NR-11-03-02 Anne M Stark Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (925) 422-9799, sta...@llnl.gov LIVERMORE, Calif. -- Scientists have found that calcium, aluminum-rich inclusions (CAIs), some of the oldest objects in the solar system, formed far away from our sun and then later fell back into the mid-plane of the solar system. The findings may lead to a greater understanding of how our solar system and possibly other solar systems formed and evolved. CAIs, roughly millimeter- to centimeter in size, are believed to have formed very early in the evolution of the solar system and had contact with nebular gas, either as solid condensates or as molten droplets. Relative to planetary materials, CAIs are enriched with the lightest oxygen isotope and are believed to record the oxygen composition of solar nebular gas where they grew. CAIs, at 4.57 billion years old, are millions of years older than more modern objects in the solar system, such as planets, which formed about 10-50 million years after CAIs. Using Lawrence Livermore's NanoSIMS (nanometer-scale secondary-ion mass spectrometer) -- an instrument that can analyze samples with nanometer-scale spatial resolution -- LLNL scientists in conjunction with NASA Johnson Space Center, University of California, Berkeley and the University of Chicago measured the concentrations of oxygen isotopes found in the CAIs. In the recent research, the team studied a specific CAI found in a piece of the Allende meteorite. Allende is the largest carbonaceous chondrite meteorite ever found on Earth. It fell to the ground in 1969 over the Mexican state of Chihuahua and is notable for possessing abundant CAIs. Their findings imply that CAIs formed from several oxygen reservoirs, likely located in distinct regions of the solar nebula. CAIs travelled within the nebula by lofting outward away from the sun and then later falling back into the mid-plane of the solar system or by spiraling through shock waves around the sun. Through oxygen isotopic analysis, the team found that rims surrounding the CAI show that late in the CAI's evolution, it was in a nebular environment distinct from where it originated and closer in composition to the environment in which the building materials of the terrestrial planets formed. Allende is this very unusual meteorite with all these wonderful inclusions (CAIs), said Ian Hutcheon, one of the LLNL scientists on the team. The isotopic measurements indicate that this CAI was transported among several different nebular oxygen isotopic reservoirs, arguably as it passed through into various regions of the protoplanetary disk. A protoplanetary disk is an area of dense gas surrounding a newly formed star. In this case, the CAI formed when our star was quite young. It is particularly interesting in understanding the formation and dynamics of our solar system's protoplanetary disk (and protoplanetary disks in general), said Justin Simon of NASA Johnson Space Center and lead author of a paper appearing in the March 4 issue of the journal Science. The new observations, support early and short-lived fluctuations of the environment in which CAIs formed, either due to transport of the CAIs themselves to distinct regions of the solar nebula or because of varying gas composition near the proto-sun, Hutcheon said. Other Livermore researchers include Jennifer Matzel, Erick Ramon and Peter Weber. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Oman prison saga
Hi Mike and Robert, Glad you guys are safely back and thank you for letting us know the story in Oman. Something is a bit puzzling. I had read another post not to long ago here that mentioned there was $250,000 to get you back into Oman(?). Not sure if that was a bounty or some kind of reward. The one who made that post did not accept that deal but that is a large sum and seemed with that kind of money for you, you were allowed to leave so relatively easily. I would think that once they got you, they would lock you up and throw away the key. Sorry if I don't have my facts straight or if it opens any wounds. I also thought that it was a stroke of genius of you to say the camera, Ipod, gps,..etc. was not for mining. I would have stammered and gave up hope.:) As much as those meteorites you lost were valuable, it's nothing compared to your health. I also found it strange if the Omani police thought those meteorites were such a national treasure they would just treat them like so much garbage. Carl2 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Inventory Sale
Hi Everybody, I've been going through my inventory and I've put up some stone meteorites for sale. There are several well known locations and some small stones available. Hopefully some decent values for you too. I've also added a few thin section hard cases that hold 100 sections. This is new-old stock, made in the USA and I only have 3 available at $25 each. Plus there's a couple of new thin sections too. A lot of this I bought a decade or more ago. Some of specimens from the the falls around that time were found soon after they landed. They are really pristine meteorites. Insured shipping costs in the US is $6 per order. Thanks for checking it out. John Sinclair www.meteoriteusa.com/sale.htm www.meteoriteusa.com/sections.htm __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Gebel Kamil
Vielen Dank, Martin, fur das great response to my question. There is much to absorb, and ponder...mostly the validity of laws and regulation stifling the free exchange of not only commerce but science as well. At the risk of going OT and citing the rediculous nature of stifling regulatory laws here in CA, and federal for that matter, I digress anyway: no doubt, any nation's laws restricting collection and free trade of meteorites will follow the same course as resticting regulation in any free-enterprise private sector endeavoreventually it will stop. Imagine if the US government were to regulate, fund (try to stop laughing) and institute a program to find and fund (stop laughing) a program to fund 'finding' and then fund (stop laughing) a program to oversee the funding of a program to institute finding, funding and then ask for classification from institutions dependent upon this very inbred ideal? (ANSMET, of course is the survivor with distinction in this regard.) And, of course our meteoritic accademics, without which we'd be no-where. The recent discussion endured in Oman by Michael and Robert is the classic case in point: despite the laws, and ethical considerations, the truth is that meteorite hunters in situ are just as vulnerable to science and collectors as are the regimes that control them. (Mike and Robert, thank you for your spirit and safe return.) -Richard Montgomery - Original Message - From: cdtuc...@cox.net To: Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gebel Kamil Jason, The following is a quote from a blog by John Blennert. If you google the following quote you can see where I copied it from. It clearly states that meteorite collecting on public land is legal but, has some limitations as per the BLM stated rules here ; BLM and I assume the Forest Service lands view meteorites the same way ( although every ones views may vary from officer to officer and district to district ). Here is what is in writing in BLM/AZ/GI-98/006 Free Rock, Mineral Semi-Precious Gemstone Collection Limits 1)The specimens are for personal use and are not collected for commercial purposes or bartered to commercial dealers. Limits are set for personal use at up to 25 pounds per day with a total of 250 pounds per year. These are the restrictions for rock collecting and rocks are what the BLM and I believe the Forest Service classes meteorites as. Again, If you insist on talking about the US maybe this clarifies things for you. Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com wrote: Carl, Legal precedents in the US suggest that meteorites belong to the person upon whose land they are found. As we found out with the recent Lorton fall, renting the land upon which a meteorite falls apparently gives someone adequate claim to ownership. If you want to be nit-picky, we can break it down, but the answer is still the same: you do not have the right to claim ownership of *any* meteorite found on public land in the US. The BLM is under the jurisdiction of the US Dept. of the Interior and, as such, it is a federal government program. While each state has its own sub-BLM department, they are technically an extension of the federal government, and any meteorite found on BLM land belongs to the federal government (and thus the Smithsonian). There is no such thing as public land, in the sense that you seem to be suggesting, Carl. Public land is not free meteorite hunting territory. It is either owned by the country, state, county, or city, meaning that a meteorite found on such land would belong to...one of those organizations. Whether you're on BLM land, state trust land, or sitting in a city park, you're standing on land that belongs to a governmental organization, and any meteorite found on said land would legally be deemed lawfully theirs. If what MikeG said is true, then it's true. I just find it hard to believe granted that the export of Libyan desert glass from Egypt wasn't made illicit until people started realizing that neolithic tools made of it were being shipped out of Egypt as well. The entire controversy surrounding the glass had nothing to do with the export of the glass in general, but rather pertained to the export of artifacts made of the glass. Things with cultural value. And now its export is prohibited. Regards, Jason On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 7:52 AM, cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: Jason, PLEASE!!! YOU said; 4) In light of that fact that the US owns all meteorites found on public land, by the logic of your statement, it should be illegal to export (or own) any meteorite found on public land in the US. After all, if all meteorites found on public land belong to the US government, then, surely, one cannot legally export them. This statement you make here is completely FALSE.
Re: [meteorite-list] Jacksonville, IL
The terminal event of this fireball occurred SW of Virginia, Illinois, over a field where the Arenzville, Illinois Fire Department was battling a grass fire. The terminal explosion was directly overhead for them. You can get the precise spot from the Arenzville F.D. The area along the flight line down stream from there has been searched a number of times by a number of individuals without any finds. Doesn't mean that they aren't there, of course... Sterling K. Webb --- - Original Message - From: Marc Fries fr...@psi.edu To: Meteorite-list List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 5:03 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Jacksonville, IL Howdy all A semi-shameless, semi-plug here... Just wanted to point this out and remind y'all that this event is still out there. And that the snow should be melting soon if it hasn't already. I plan on getting up there myself, but I don't know when and the more eyes on the ground the better. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2011/pdf/1130.pdf Cheers, Marc Fries __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
