Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day (suspended until further notice)
If all finds are falls and all falls are finds, even though all falls haven't been found and all finds have been found, a fall has to be found before it becomes a fall or a find, but a find is just a find even though it fell, so everything that's found fell and everthing has to fall to be found and a fall has to be a find before it's a fall at all and never the twain shall meet? > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 01:50:05 -0500 > From: almi...@localnet.com > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day (suspended until > further notice) > > Greetings, > > I thought falls without witnesses were allege falls?? > > --AL Mitterling > > Quoting h...@meteorhall.com: > > > Scientists argue all the time. Discussion is what drives every science. > > Words are important. I'm impotent...wait, that's from an old joke. See, > > even spelling is important! > > Good Night, Fred > > > >> People can argue about many things my question is why > > So calling them Observed or Unobserved falls is logical. That is what > happened to all of them. > That is simple reality. > > > Anne M. Black > > > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] the preposition before
Hi, With the lively discussion about fall/find terminology recently going on I thought that it is a good time to ask the lists opinion (if it i ever a good time to ask the list for an opinion) about a preposition that I have started to add to my descriptions of meteorites. The preposition that I am talking about is "before". I often insert "before" between "found" and the date i.e. Found before 1576. To me this acknowledges the truth that the meteorite was known to exist prior to is discovery by western society. "Before" also indicates that there may be an interesting pre-discovery history. So my questions to the list are: Does my use of "before" make a difference to you? Is it confusing or informative? Or is it just a waste of ink and electrons? Thanks, Peter __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Dealer views of 2012 Sales
Hi List. With the economy still weak and recovery being painfully slow, I was curious if any Dealers would like to ping in and give their thoughts of what kind of year (2012) it was for sales of your meteorites, be it on your Website or via eBay. Sincerely Don Merchant Founder-Cosmic Treasures Celestial Wonders www.ctreasurescwonders.com IMCA #0960 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NASA Considers Capturing an Asteroid
NASA Considers Capturing an Asteroid, Setting It to Orbit the Moon, Wired UK, January 1, 2012 http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/01/nasa-asteroid-capture/ NASA's bizarre plan to drag an asteroid into the moon's orbit, The Week Magazine, January 1, 2012 http://theweek.com/article/index/238374/nasas-bizarre-plan-to-drag-an-asteroid-into-the-moons-orbit NASA Wants to Drag an Asteroid Into Orbit Around the Moon, Smithsonian, January 3, 2012 http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/smartnews/2013/01/nasa-wants-to-drag-an-asteroid-into-orbit-around-the-moon/ Best wishes, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
Maybe we need to try a different language. How about the universal language of mathematics? [Observed fall: No] != [unobserved fall] or IF(observed fall, fall, find) Nip this in the bud before someone makes up a term for an unobserved meteor... -Michael in so. Cal. On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Michael Farmer wrote: > Noit makes perfect sense actually, is it a fall or a find. I spoke to Garvie > yesterday, who made very clear there are only two terms, fall or find. > You would make a great politician, mincing words until no logic is left to > find. > An old meteorite found in a field was found, thus a find. > been that way for centuries, no need to change it now. > > Michael Farmer > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jan 5, 2013, at 9:30 AM, wrote: > >> Mike, >> >> The Meteoritical Bulletin Database uses the following terminology: >> >>Observed fall: No >> >> Does that disturb you? >> >> Paul Swartz >> >>> I find this new attempt to change terminology disturbing. I have hundreds >>> of old catalogs from the top museums and dealers from more than 200 years >>> ago till today, all of them list falls and finds. None of them discuss >>> unobserved falls as an acceptable alternative. >>> Are we really ready to just accept anything thrown out there, and watch as >>> all manner of BS is used to discredit hundreds of years of accepted >>> terminology? >>> My private collection focuses on witnessed falls, with date and time and >>> science to back it up. >>> I am not interested in another group which would include every meteorite >>> ever to have fallen, since they did actually all fall at some point. >>> Well, I guess Anne can delete her birthday fall calendar page since now we >>> can simply put every NWA on any date you choose to believe it might have >>> possibly fallen:). > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
I'm not sure if the message below got sent... getting weird bounce messages fr On 1/5/2013 9:25 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote: I should add: my first two categories are types of falls, whereas the last three are types of finds. Jeff On 1/5/2013 8:12 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote: In all seriousness, I have considered refining, or at least qualifying the definition of "fall." The categories I've considered are these, and the definitions are first passes: Observed fall: observed to fall, either visually or with instruments, and collected soon after the event. The event was well documented. Physical evidence associated with the collected meteorites is consistent with a fresh fall, or, when collection does not occur immediately, directly points to a fall at the time of the observed event. Unobserved fall: No observations were made of a fall event, but physical evidence conclusively points to a fall on a specific date or within a very narrow range of dates. Probable fall: In these cases, there was a well-documented meteor event with characteristics consistent with a meteorite fall, followed by the collection of meteorites some time later. There is a strong likelihood that the meteorite fell in the observed event, but physical evidence is not fully conclusive. Possible fall: The same situation as a probable fall, but there is significant doubt about whether the meteorite is connected to the event or about the reliability of the observations of the event. Doubtful fall: The same situation as a possible fall, but there is a high degree of doubt. This was all suggested by the circumstances surrounding the Benešov (a) and (b) meteorites, which I would have put in the "possible fall" category, if such a thing existed. Jeff On 1/4/2013 8:57 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: I find this new attempt to change terminology disturbing. I have hundreds of old catalogs from the top museums and dealers from more than 200 years ago till today, all of them list falls and finds. None of them discuss unobserved falls as an acceptable alternative. Are we really ready to just accept anything thrown out there, and watch as all manner of BS is used to discredit hundreds of years of accepted terminology? My private collection focuses on witnessed falls, with date and time and science to back it up. I am not interested in another group which would include every meteorite ever to have fallen, since they did actually all fall at some point. Well, I guess Anne can delete her birthday fall calendar page since now we can simply put every NWA on any date you choose to believe it might have possibly fallen:). Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 4, 2013, at 6:47 PM, "Mike Bandli" wrote: If a meteorite falls from the sky and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound? ;^] -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 --- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of h...@meteorhall.com Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 5:36 PM To: Anne Black Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; valpar...@aol.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day Right, Anne. That is why they are referred to as a "Fall" or a "Find". Concise! Cheers, Fred Hall Every single meteorite ever found on Earth is necessarily the result of a fall, they are not native to Earth. The only difference is that some falls are seen, witnessed, and some, the vast majoriry, are not. So calling them Observed or Unobserved falls is logical. That is what happened to all of them. That is simple reality. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- tFrom: hall To: Michael Farmer Cc: meteorite-list ; valparint Sent: Fri, Jan 4, 2013 6:13 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day An "unobserved fall" is two words to describe the one word that has been used for a century, "Find". The one word "Find" is good enough for the Catalogue of Meteorites, it was good enough for Harvey Nininger, and it is what I shall always use. Keep it concise. Regards, Fred Hall That would make sense for say New Orleans, where a stone went through a hou
Re: [meteorite-list] Dealer views of 2012 Sales
My 2012 sales was one of my best years ever. eBay is done, nothing for me but problems and scams on there now. That being said, most sales are to larger buyers, the small buyers are hurting and sales are way down at the lower end of the scale (another reason I have mostly abandoned eBay, not counting the endless ways they steal from the sellers). I expect the Tucson show to be jumping. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 7, 2013, at 9:43 AM, "Don Merchant" wrote: > Hi List. With the economy still weak and recovery being painfully slow, I was > curious if any Dealers would like to ping in and give their thoughts of what > kind of year (2012) it was for sales of your meteorites, be it on your > Website or via eBay. > > Sincerely > Don Merchant > Founder-Cosmic Treasures Celestial Wonders > www.ctreasurescwonders.com > IMCA #0960 > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dealer views of 2012 Sales
I will let you know when I figure the exceedingly high taxes partially due to the Affordable Healthcare Act. Taxes are now so complicated that it took a 19 page return for 2011and this doesn't include 1099s that had to be issued for anything over $599.00. I feel sorry for the paper boy. I can only imagine how difficult 2012 will be with a flood of new tax requirements. I can hardly wait for 2013 with record level and numerous hidden tax increases hidden in the "healthcare bill!" Overall, I would say 2012 was an average year for meteorite sales considering the terrible shape the economy is in. And as Mike pointed out, eBay is becoming more and more difficult to deal with. 2012 held a record number of unpaid item disputes and "lost" sent packages for me. It seems some people have fun bidding on items but refuse to pay for them with no real recourse from eBay. If any item is "lost" then a seller can count on not recovering any funds since PayPal maintains the right to manage all of your money in their account. Here is to a better looking 2013 where diversification may save the day! Adam From: Don Merchant To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Don Merchant Sent: Monday, January 7, 2013 8:43 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealer views of 2012 Sales Hi List. With the economy still weak and recovery being painfully slow, I was curious if any Dealers would like to ping in and give their thoughts of what kind of year (2012) it was for sales of your meteorites, be it on your Website or via eBay. Sincerely Don Merchant Founder-Cosmic Treasures Celestial Wonders www.ctreasurescwonders.com IMCA #0960 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day (suspended until further notice)
I heard the list was down the last 3 days - but see This post was but 36 hrs or so ago. Is it up or down? Michael On 1/5/13 6:55 PM, "W&S Schroer" wrote: > So are the sales of unobserved finds. > > Werner Schroer > Australia > > -Original Message- > From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks > Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 12:24 PM > To: Mike Bandli > Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com ; Anne Black ; valpar...@aol.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day (suspended until > further notice) > > Attention : sales of all unobserved falls are hereby suspended until > further notice. ;) __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Martian (Basaltic Breccia)
My revised classification of NWA 7034 was approved yesterday for this new type of martian meteorite: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=NWA+7034&sfor=names&ants=&falls=&valids=&stype=contains&lrec=50&map=ge&browse=&country=All&srt=name&categ=All&mblist=All&rect=&phot=&snew=0&pnt=Normal%20table&code=54831 Also it will be featured on Wikipedia's front page soon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Africa_7034 -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Falls and finds
Why don't we just leave things that work as they are? In more than 18 years of selling meteorites, I have never heard of finds morphing into "unobserved falls". Poor marketing gimmick to try and remake finds into something more interesting (not sure who buys into such scams). If there is some anecdotal evidence that a meteorite may be a fall it is usually noted in the writeup. Any label I get describing a meteorite as an "unobserved fall" will be promptly thrown where it belongs, in the trash heap of schemes and scams:) By the way, has the Alpha-site been disclosed yet, or is that still a "secret"? Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 6, 2013, at 10:52 PM, Michael Mulgrew wrote: > Maybe we need to try a different language. How about the universal > language of mathematics? > > [Observed fall: No] != [unobserved fall] > > or > > IF(observed fall, fall, find) > > > Nip this in the bud before someone makes up a term for an unobserved meteor... > > > -Michael in so. Cal. > > On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Michael Farmer wrote: >> Noit makes perfect sense actually, is it a fall or a find. I spoke to Garvie >> yesterday, who made very clear there are only two terms, fall or find. >> You would make a great politician, mincing words until no logic is left to >> find. >> An old meteorite found in a field was found, thus a find. >> been that way for centuries, no need to change it now. >> >> Michael Farmer >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Jan 5, 2013, at 9:30 AM, wrote: >> >>> Mike, >>> >>> The Meteoritical Bulletin Database uses the following terminology: >>> >>> Observed fall: No >>> >>> Does that disturb you? >>> >>> Paul Swartz >>> I find this new attempt to change terminology disturbing. I have hundreds of old catalogs from the top museums and dealers from more than 200 years ago till today, all of them list falls and finds. None of them discuss unobserved falls as an acceptable alternative. Are we really ready to just accept anything thrown out there, and watch as all manner of BS is used to discredit hundreds of years of accepted terminology? My private collection focuses on witnessed falls, with date and time and science to back it up. I am not interested in another group which would include every meteorite ever to have fallen, since they did actually all fall at some point. Well, I guess Anne can delete her birthday fall calendar page since now we can simply put every NWA on any date you choose to believe it might have possibly fallen:). >> __ >> >> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dealer views of 2012 Sales
Hi Don and List, For me personally in a word to describe my 2012 sales - Outstanding! As Mike wrote, I too do very little on eBay these last several years due to their constant changes, fees and that they insist that we conduct business the way THEY see fit. I do not need anyone to tell me how to run my business except for my customers/friends and myself!! As part of a way for me to better my service and to share my experiences I built a new web site and 'remodeled' an old one. I am also taking other steps to better my presentation, packaging, ID cards,... just about everything!! :) I wish everyone a healthy and prosperous 2013 and beyond!! Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog & Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest & eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Don Merchant Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 11:43 AM To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Don Merchant Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealer views of 2012 Sales Hi List. With the economy still weak and recovery being painfully slow, I was curious if any Dealers would like to ping in and give their thoughts of what kind of year (2012) it was for sales of your meteorites, be it on your Website or via eBay. Sincerely Don Merchant Founder-Cosmic Treasures Celestial Wonders www.ctreasurescwonders.com IMCA #0960 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dealer views of 2012 Sales
Can't complain. Not the very best year but not the worse either. The economy seems to be bouncing back niely. I abandonned Ebay years ago, and I have been selling across the board, large and small buyers, state-side and in Europe. And I sure hope that the Tucson show will be jumping! I am bringing so much stuff, my room will be very full this year. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Michael Farmer To: Don Merchant Cc: ; Don Merchant Sent: Mon, Jan 7, 2013 10:13 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealer views of 2012 Sales My 2012 sales was one of my best years ever. eBay is done, nothing for me but problems and scams on there now. That being said, most sales are to larger buyers, the small buyers are hurting and sales are way down at the lower end of the scale (another reason I have mostly abandoned eBay, not counting the endless ways they steal from the sellers). I expect the Tucson show to be jumping. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 7, 2013, at 9:43 AM, "Don Merchant" wrote: Hi List. With the economy still weak and recovery being painfully slow, I was curious if any Dealers would like to ping in and give their thoughts of what kind of year (2012) it was for sales of your meteorites, be it on your Website or via eBay. Sincerely Don Merchant Founder-Cosmic Treasures Celestial Wonders www.ctreasurescwonders.com IMCA #0960 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day (suspended until further notice)
I feel that I've achieved a higher level in the World o' Meteorites! Only the most specialist stuff gets the "suspended" notice ;) Paul Swartz > Attention : sales of all unobserved falls are hereby suspended until > further notice. ;) > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
Mike, The Meteoritical Bulletin Database uses the following terminology: Observed fall: No Does that disturb you? Paul Swartz > I find this new attempt to change terminology disturbing. I have hundreds of > old catalogs from the top museums and dealers from more than 200 years ago > till today, all of them list falls and finds. None of them discuss unobserved > falls as an acceptable alternative. > Are we really ready to just accept anything thrown out there, and watch as > all manner of BS is used to discredit hundreds of years of accepted > terminology? > My private collection focuses on witnessed falls, with date and time and > science to back it up. > I am not interested in another group which would include every meteorite ever > to have fallen, since they did actually all fall at some point. > Well, I guess Anne can delete her birthday fall calendar page since now we > can simply put every NWA on any date you choose to believe it might have > possibly fallen:). __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] 1/6/2013 MPOD
>From Mendy Ouzillou / IMCA8395 Love it and the metal vein. Outstanding specimen and a great American find. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
Today's Meteorite Picture of the Day: Monument Draw Contributed by: Tony Stuedi http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpod.asp __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Order or Inquiry
Item 1018: various sizes of Orgueil __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
Today's Meteorite Picture of the Day: Franconia Contributed by: Jason Snyder http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpod.asp __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] the preposition before
Makes perfect sense to me, Peter. There are many meteorites that were known long before they were "discovered". Since I bought an old collection with many meteorites I had never seen or even heard of before, I have had to do a lot of research, Thank Heavens for the Buchwald books!! If you don't have them, get them! They are full of interesting and sometimes rather funny stories about the discovery or re-discovery of meteorites. Here is one I have posted on my site right now: IRON CREEK: Medium Octahedrite, IIIA A mass of 175kilos was reported as being in a farmyard in Victoria, a village 140 km east-northeast of Edmonton (Alberta, Canada) in 1871. It had been moved there from the summit of a hill some 150km. south of Victoria, by Iron Creek, a tributary of the Battle River and it had been known by the local Cree and Blackfoot Indians for much longer than anyone could remember. The mas was highly venerated and tribute was paid to it in the form of trinkets and beads. When it was removed they regretted it and feared dire repercussions; in fact only a few months later an epidemic of smallpox decimated the tribes. The main mass is now in the Victoria University in Toronto, Canada. (thanks to Dr Vaugh Buchwald) To me those stories are very interesting and very important; meteorites have influenced the lives of so many people in so many different ways. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Peter Scherff To: 'Meteorite List' Sent: Mon, Jan 7, 2013 9:22 am Subject: [meteorite-list] the preposition before Hi, With the lively discussion about fall/find terminology recently going on I thought that it is a good time to ask the lists opinion (if it i ever a good time to ask the list for an opinion) about a preposition that I have started to add to my descriptions of meteorites. The preposition that I am talking about is "before". I often insert "before" between "found" and the date i.e. Found before 1576. To me this acknowledges the truth that the meteorite was known to exist prior to is discovery by western society. "Before" also indicates that there may be an interesting pre-discovery history. So my questions to the list are: Does my use of "before" make a difference to you? Is it confusing or informative? Or is it just a waste of ink and electrons? Thanks, Peter __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
I'm quite happy with Find and Fall, been using that since I first started and I see no reason to change. Besides I'm getting too old for changes ;-) Cheers John On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Michael Farmer wrote: > > Noit makes perfect sense actually, is it a fall or a find. I spoke to > Garvie yesterday, who made very clear there are only two terms, fall or > find. > You would make a great politician, mincing words until no logic is left to > find. > An old meteorite found in a field was found, thus a find. > been that way for centuries, no need to change it now. > > Michael Farmer > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jan 5, 2013, at 9:30 AM, wrote: > > > Mike, > > > > The Meteoritical Bulletin Database uses the following terminology: > > > >Observed fall: No > > > > Does that disturb you? > > > > Paul Swartz > > > >> I find this new attempt to change terminology disturbing. I have > >> hundreds of old catalogs from the top museums and dealers from more than > >> 200 > >> years ago till today, all of them list falls and finds. None of them > >> discuss > >> unobserved falls as an acceptable alternative. > >> Are we really ready to just accept anything thrown out there, and watch > >> as all manner of BS is used to discredit hundreds of years of accepted > >> terminology? > >> My private collection focuses on witnessed falls, with date and time > >> and science to back it up. > >> I am not interested in another group which would include every > >> meteorite ever to have fallen, since they did actually all fall at some > >> point. > >> Well, I guess Anne can delete her birthday fall calendar page since now > >> we can simply put every NWA on any date you choose to believe it might have > >> possibly fallen:). > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
> An "unobserved fall" is two words to describe the one word that has > been used for a century, "Find". The one word "Find" is good enough for > the Catalogue of Meteorites, it was good enough for Harvey Nininger, > and it is what I shall always use. Keep it concise. Yep, I concur! Keep it concise. Alex Berlin/Germany __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
Indeed, in other words, if it ain't broke don't change it. Sent from Gary's iPhone On Jan 6, 2013, at 11:11 AM, John Cabassi wrote: > I'm quite happy with Find and Fall, been using that since I first > started and I see no reason to change. Besides I'm getting too old for > changes ;-) > > Cheers > John > > On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Michael Farmer wrote: >> >> Noit makes perfect sense actually, is it a fall or a find. I spoke to >> Garvie yesterday, who made very clear there are only two terms, fall or >> find. >> You would make a great politician, mincing words until no logic is left to >> find. >> An old meteorite found in a field was found, thus a find. >> been that way for centuries, no need to change it now. >> >> Michael Farmer >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Jan 5, 2013, at 9:30 AM, wrote: >> >>> Mike, >>> >>> The Meteoritical Bulletin Database uses the following terminology: >>> >>> Observed fall: No >>> >>> Does that disturb you? >>> >>> Paul Swartz >>> I find this new attempt to change terminology disturbing. I have hundreds of old catalogs from the top museums and dealers from more than 200 years ago till today, all of them list falls and finds. None of them discuss unobserved falls as an acceptable alternative. Are we really ready to just accept anything thrown out there, and watch as all manner of BS is used to discredit hundreds of years of accepted terminology? My private collection focuses on witnessed falls, with date and time and science to back it up. I am not interested in another group which would include every meteorite ever to have fallen, since they did actually all fall at some point. Well, I guess Anne can delete her birthday fall calendar page since now we can simply put every NWA on any date you choose to believe it might have possibly fallen:). >> __ >> >> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Everett Gibson for Met Soc Leonard Medal
For the record. The 1968 Holbrook specimen I recovered weighed 1,560 grams [Meteoritics vol 5, pp 57-60 (1970). E. K. Gibson, Jr]. Larry, hope this assists with the accounting for Holbrook recovered specimens. Everett Gibson Sent from my iPhone Everett K. Gibson ekgm...@aol.com 713-898-6998 cell 281-488-6024 home 281-483-6224 work On Jan 5, 2013, at 9:49 AM, Larry Atkins wrote: > > > I demand a recount! > > My find, in reality, did weigh more than 1.45kg. I didn't sift through > the sand and I left a bunch of fragments for the next person to come > along. (Call me crazy!) From what I heard, another~100 grams or so come > out of the dirt. > > I'm gonna think of it as a tie! > > Sincerely, > Larry Atkins > > IMCA # 1941 > Ebay alienrockfarm > > > > -Original Message- > From: Frank Cressy > To: Larry Atkins ; rubengarcia85382 > ; meteorite-list > > Sent: Fri, Jan 4, 2013 9:58 pm > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Everett Gibson for Met Soc Leonard Medal > > > Hi all, > > Dr. Gibson's stone weighed 1.5 kg. That what his article in > Meteoritics says. > (v. 5, no. 1, 1970, "Discovery of another Meteorite Specimen from the > 1912 > Holbrook, Arizona Fall Site"). > Still beat you Larry, but not by much ;-) > > > Frank > > > - Original Message > From: Larry Atkins > To: rubengarcia85...@gmail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Thu, January 3, 2013 7:53:50 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Everett Gibson for Met Soc Leonard Medal > > Hi Ruben, > > If Dr. Everette's Holbrook is 3.5 Kilo's, he's got me beat! Mine was a > measley 1.45 Kg. > > > Sincerely, > Larry Atkins > > IMCA # 1941 > Ebay alienrockfarm > > > > -Original Message- > From: Ruben Garcia > To: Greg Hupé > Cc: ekgmars ; meteorite-list > ; metsocsec ; > palmeherbert > Sent: Thu, Jan 3, 2013 3:57 pm > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Everett Gibson for Met Soc Leonard Medal > > > Hi Greg, > > I second Greg's nomination, and completely agree! I just donated a > few small specimens to Dr. Everett K. Gibson (and NASA) for some > spectacular work they're in the midst of. > > Some of you many not be aware that Dr. Everett K. Gibson is one of > Carleton Moore's graduate students and (as far as I know) has the > record for the second largest Holbrook find in the last 50 years - 3.5 > kilos. Larry (Lucky Dog) Atkins has the largest! > > Keep up the great work! > > -- > > http://www.MrMeteorite.com > > Ruben Garcia > > > > > urrently work at NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston. > > On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Greg Hupé > wrote: >> Dear List Members, >> >> For the last two years that I know of, Dr. Everett K. Gibson has been >> nominated for the Meteoritcal Society’s Leonard Medal and a > nomination for >> this year is soon to be made. While I am not a Meteoritical Society > member >> at current time, I would encourage as many members to nominate or > second the >> nomination of Everett for his outstanding contributions to the > scientific >> community and more!! Everett is Senior Scientist and Astrobiologist > in the >> Astromaterials Research Office at NASA-JSC. If non-members > nominations or >> seconds ARE considered, I certainly do nominate and/or second Everett > for >> the Leonard Medal!! >> >> The rules allow for any number of seconders. To be a seconder you > should >> write (email) to the Chairman of the Leonard Medal Committee Herbert > Palme >> (palmeherb...@gmail.com). In case I have that wrong you should send a > copy >> to Greg Herzog (metsoc...@gmail.com). The deadline is January 15th. I > hope >> you will feel you would like to support Everett. >> >> Best Regards, >> Greg >> >> >> Greg Hupé >> The Hupé Collection >> gmh...@centurylink.net >> www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog & Reference Site) >> www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) >> NaturesVault (eBay & Facebook) >> http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault >> IMCA 3163 >> >> Click here for my current eBay auctions: >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault >> >> >> >> __ >> >> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-
Re: [meteorite-list] Unobserved fall [bounced reply - resent]
Re-transmit. Last week I sent 3 posts to the List, none of them made it, and they still don't appear in any of the Archives. The following message is a "re-transmit" of one that was "bounced-back" to me from the Met-List server. Art! PLEASE BRING BACK THE "OLD" ARCHIVES! Original Message [meteorite-list] Unobserved fall valparint Sun, 23 Dec 2012 09:20:03 -0800 "Find" does not tell us if a fall was observed. Maybe not a big deal for the old hands but useful info for newbies. "Observed" and "Find" usually occur at different times and are, therefore, different pieces of information. One does not contain the other. The MetBul uses this terminology - "Observed fall: No". Grammatically, equivalent to "unobserved fall". Then they add "Year found: 1576". Two pieces of unequivocal information. I don't control the terminology of the meteorite world. I do control the MPOD and it was my decision to use "unobserved fall" in order to convey more information. cheers Paul Swartz IMCA 5204 --- End of Original Message --- Re: [meteorite-list] Unobserved fall From: "Robert Verish" To: "Meteorite-list Meteoritecentral" On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 09:20:03 -0800, valprint wrote: "A 'find' does not tell us if a fall was observed. Maybe not a big deal for the old hands but useful info for newbies." -- Sorry for my delay in replying to this post, but I first wanted to ask a couple of the "old hands" that I personally know, whether or not they agreed with those comments. And this may come as a surprise, especially if you would assume that the reactionary "old hands" would be resistant to change, but they were all open to any improvements in terminology, especially if the "improvement" would be useful to newbies. But the general consensus of the "old hands" was that it would actually be the newbies that would be the most confused by the existence of two terms meaning the same thing. It would be particularly difficult during the transition, the introduction of the new phrase while the usage of the old term is still in vogue. And the transition would be a very long period of time given how the old term is so entrenched. As is typical of "old hands", they questioned "why now?" Why hasn't this long-standing terminology been a problem until now? Maybe there is no problem. Maybe the premise of the iconoclasts is flawed, and it needs to be reexamined. "A 'find' does not tell us if a 'fall' was observed." Is this always true? I'm not sure how the terms "find" and "fall" are defined here? For the sake of the "newbies" and for clarity, the "old hands" said this: When you are making labels for your specimens, where it says "Fall or Find?", ** a "Fall" always tells you that the fall was observed (or witnessed), and a "Find" always tells you that the fall was unobserved, or better stated, that there were no reports it was observed. After all, who can honestly know that it was not observed? Isn't it possible that a "Find" could be changed to a "Fall"? Which makes the term "unobserved fall" sound presumptuous. (** - based upon Met Soc usage in "Guidelines for Nomenclature") Anyway, that's what I got from the "old hands" that I asked. I haven't stated my personal opinion about what I think is the meaning and usage of the term "unobserved fall", because that would be more appropriate in a separate post. So many falls, so little time to find them, Bob V. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
The following message is being resent - sorry for any duplicated posts: --- Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day Sunday, January 6, 2013 2:09 PM From: "Robert Verish" To: "" Cc: "" Hey Paul, I'll go ahead and apologize, now, in case your message to Michael was personal, but now that it appears on the List, I need to point-out something regarding your reference to the Meteoritical Bulletin. Should you have the occasion to fill-out the MetBull Template for Submission (to request a name) used for reporting falls and finds (as I have recently), you will find the following: in the report form there are two columns to be filled-in: "Fall or Find Date" - "Enter the actual date that the sample fell or was found in the field." "Fall" - "Enter Y for an observed fall. Otherwise leave blank." This form and the Met Soc "Guidelines for Meteorite Nomenclature" is replete with the terms "fall" and "find", and nowhere is there any reference to a category that could be called "unobserved falls". The closest that I could find was, "Otherwise leave blank." I'm just saying, you made the reference to the MetBull, so I'm just making "full disclosure". Bob V. --- On Sat, 1/5/13, Michael Farmer wrote: > From: Michael Farmer > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day > To: "" > Cc: "" > > Date: Saturday, January 5, 2013, 8:52 AM > > No it makes perfect sense actually, is it a fall or a find. > I spoke to Garvie yesterday, who made > very clear there are only two terms, fall or find. > You would make a great politician, mincing words until no > logic is left to find. > An old meteorite found in a field was found, thus a find. > been that way for centuries, no need to change it now. > > Michael Farmer > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jan 5, 2013, at 9:30 AM, wrote: > > > Mike, > > > > The Meteoritical Bulletin Database uses the following > terminology: > > > >Observed fall: No > > > > Does that disturb you? > > > > Paul Swartz > > > >> I find this new attempt to change terminology > disturbing. I have hundreds of old catalogs from the top > museums and dealers from more than 200 years ago till today, > all of them list falls and finds. None of them discuss > unobserved falls as an acceptable alternative. > >> Are we really ready to just accept anything thrown > out there, and watch as all manner of BS is used to > discredit hundreds of years of accepted terminology? > >> My private collection focuses on witnessed falls, > with date and time and science to back it up. > >> I am not interested in another group which would > include every meteorite ever to have fallen, since they did > actually all fall at some point. > >> Well, I guess Anne can delete her birthday fall > calendar page since now we can simply put every NWA on any > date you choose to believe it might have possibly fallen:). > __ > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dealer views of 2012 Sales
Aloha Don, all, 2012 was a strong year for sales off my website and eBay. My only complaint is the asinine policy changes made by the USPS regarding (small) customs forms. International sales have increased substantially (which exacerbates the USPS issues). Don't get me started on eBay. I've been on eBay since 1999, and have watched a slow decline in seller support and increase in seller fees. Those issues notwithstanding, there is no better market to reach global exposure. Sent from Gary's iPhone On Jan 7, 2013, at 6:43 AM, Don Merchant wrote: > Hi List. With the economy still weak and recovery being painfully slow, I was > curious if any Dealers would like to ping in and give their thoughts of what > kind of year (2012) it was for sales of your meteorites, be it on your > Website or via eBay. > > Sincerely > Don Merchant > Founder-Cosmic Treasures Celestial Wonders > www.ctreasurescwonders.com > IMCA #0960 > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
In all seriousness, I have considered refining, or at least qualifying the definition of "fall." The categories I've considered are these, and the definitions are first passes: Observed fall: observed to fall, either visually or with instruments, and collected soon after the event. The event was well documented. Physical evidence associated with the collected meteorites is consistent with a fresh fall, or, when collection does not occur immediately, directly points to a fall at the time of the observed event. Unobserved fall: No observations were made of a fall event, but physical evidence conclusively points to a fall on a specific date or within a very narrow range of dates. Probable fall: In these cases, there was a well-documented meteor event with characteristics consistent with a meteorite fall, followed by the collection of meteorites some time later. There is a strong likelihood that the meteorite fell in the observed event, but physical evidence is not fully conclusive. Possible fall: The same situation as a probable fall, but there is significant doubt about whether the meteorite is connected to the event or about the reliability of the observations of the event. Doubtful fall: The same situation as a possible fall, but there is a high degree of doubt. This was all suggested by the circumstances surrounding the Benešov (a) and (b) meteorites, which I would have put in the "possible fall" category, if such a thing existed. Jeff On 1/4/2013 8:57 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: I find this new attempt to change terminology disturbing. I have hundreds of old catalogs from the top museums and dealers from more than 200 years ago till today, all of them list falls and finds. None of them discuss unobserved falls as an acceptable alternative. Are we really ready to just accept anything thrown out there, and watch as all manner of BS is used to discredit hundreds of years of accepted terminology? My private collection focuses on witnessed falls, with date and time and science to back it up. I am not interested in another group which would include every meteorite ever to have fallen, since they did actually all fall at some point. Well, I guess Anne can delete her birthday fall calendar page since now we can simply put every NWA on any date you choose to believe it might have possibly fallen:). Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 4, 2013, at 6:47 PM, "Mike Bandli" wrote: If a meteorite falls from the sky and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound? ;^] -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 --- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of h...@meteorhall.com Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 5:36 PM To: Anne Black Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; valpar...@aol.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day Right, Anne. That is why they are referred to as a "Fall" or a "Find". Concise! Cheers, Fred Hall Every single meteorite ever found on Earth is necessarily the result of a fall, they are not native to Earth. The only difference is that some falls are seen, witnessed, and some, the vast majoriry, are not. So calling them Observed or Unobserved falls is logical. That is what happened to all of them. That is simple reality. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- tFrom: hall To: Michael Farmer Cc: meteorite-list ; valparint Sent: Fri, Jan 4, 2013 6:13 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day An "unobserved fall" is two words to describe the one word that has been used for a century, "Find". The one word "Find" is good enough for the Catalogue of Meteorites, it was good enough for Harvey Nininger, and it is what I shall always use. Keep it concise. Regards, Fred Hall That would make sense for say New Orleans, where a stone went through a house and no one in their right mind would suggest that it did not fall at that time say between 8 am and 4 pm when there was no hole in the house, yet it was not seen to fall. An old rock found in a field does not suggest anything about fall date. So it is a find, something never really ar
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
I should add: my first two categories are types of falls, whereas the last three are types of finds. Jeff On 1/5/2013 8:12 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote: In all seriousness, I have considered refining, or at least qualifying the definition of "fall." The categories I've considered are these, and the definitions are first passes: Observed fall: observed to fall, either visually or with instruments, and collected soon after the event. The event was well documented. Physical evidence associated with the collected meteorites is consistent with a fresh fall, or, when collection does not occur immediately, directly points to a fall at the time of the observed event. Unobserved fall: No observations were made of a fall event, but physical evidence conclusively points to a fall on a specific date or within a very narrow range of dates. Probable fall: In these cases, there was a well-documented meteor event with characteristics consistent with a meteorite fall, followed by the collection of meteorites some time later. There is a strong likelihood that the meteorite fell in the observed event, but physical evidence is not fully conclusive. Possible fall: The same situation as a probable fall, but there is significant doubt about whether the meteorite is connected to the event or about the reliability of the observations of the event. Doubtful fall: The same situation as a possible fall, but there is a high degree of doubt. This was all suggested by the circumstances surrounding the Benešov (a) and (b) meteorites, which I would have put in the "possible fall" category, if such a thing existed. Jeff On 1/4/2013 8:57 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: I find this new attempt to change terminology disturbing. I have hundreds of old catalogs from the top museums and dealers from more than 200 years ago till today, all of them list falls and finds. None of them discuss unobserved falls as an acceptable alternative. Are we really ready to just accept anything thrown out there, and watch as all manner of BS is used to discredit hundreds of years of accepted terminology? My private collection focuses on witnessed falls, with date and time and science to back it up. I am not interested in another group which would include every meteorite ever to have fallen, since they did actually all fall at some point. Well, I guess Anne can delete her birthday fall calendar page since now we can simply put every NWA on any date you choose to believe it might have possibly fallen:). Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 4, 2013, at 6:47 PM, "Mike Bandli" wrote: If a meteorite falls from the sky and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound? ;^] -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 --- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of h...@meteorhall.com Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 5:36 PM To: Anne Black Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; valpar...@aol.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day Right, Anne. That is why they are referred to as a "Fall" or a "Find". Concise! Cheers, Fred Hall Every single meteorite ever found on Earth is necessarily the result of a fall, they are not native to Earth. The only difference is that some falls are seen, witnessed, and some, the vast majoriry, are not. So calling them Observed or Unobserved falls is logical. That is what happened to all of them. That is simple reality. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- tFrom: hall To: Michael Farmer Cc: meteorite-list ; valparint Sent: Fri, Jan 4, 2013 6:13 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day An "unobserved fall" is two words to describe the one word that has been used for a century, "Find". The one word "Find" is good enough for the Catalogue of Meteorites, it was good enough for Harvey Nininger, and it is what I shall always use. Keep it concise. Regards, Fred Hall That would make sense for say New Orleans, where a stone went through a house and no one in their right mind would suggest that it did not fall at that time say between 8 am and 4 pm when there was no hol
[meteorite-list] Chantonnay, Ensisheim, Lost City, Honolulu, Murray, Stannern, Barwell & much more ending on ebay soon :)
Hello Listers Thank you for taking a look at my post of meteorites I have for sale on eBay. Here is your chance to own some rare and historic meteorites. Please take a look and if you have any questions or OFFERS & /or TRADES, please email me and I'll get back with you. Also if you are looking for bigger/smaller meteorites, let me know too. A meteorite is a meteorite, but a meteorite with history and a legacy, will always add aura to your meteorite collection and value. eBay Store http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633nyc/m.html Featured Meteorites CHANTONNAY 143mg meteorite fell in 1812 in France. Very rare and hard to find stone *MAKE AN OFFER* http://www.ebay.com/itm/251208466425?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 NEW CONCORD meteorite 1860-Horse killer-ASU collection! http://www.ebay.com/itm/251209260605?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 LOST CITY 116mg meteorite 1st fireball photo path in USA VERY RARE http://www.ebay.com/itm/251208868889?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 ENSISHEIM historic meteorite fall from 1492 - 1st fall from France - Very Rare http://www.ebay.com/itm/251209264397?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 BARWELL meteorite Christmas meteorite fall/shower UK 1965- Hammer Fall! http://www.ebay.com/itm/251209262477?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 HIGH POSSIL historic meteorite 1st Scotland fall - 1804 - 350g TKW VERY RARE! http://www.ebay.com/itm/251209265859?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 VALERA Cow killing HAMMER STONE meteorite - rare fall with documentation! http://www.ebay.com/itm/251208870051?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 STANNERN historic meteorite fall-1808 very important and rare HED meteorite fall http://www.ebay.com/itm/251208867424?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 St. Louis historic meteorite SUPER RARE hammer STONE hit a moving car 1950! http://www.ebay.com/itm/251208871728?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 MURRAY Ultra Rare CM2 Meteorite 70 Amino Acids Polyols SUGARS - ASU Collection. http://www.ebay.com/itm/251208869232?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 BONITA SPRINGS found among skeletons in 1938 in FL USA Rare meteorite http://www.ebay.com/itm/251208865642?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 BERLANGUILLAS historic meteorite - Fell in 1811 Spain - 1440g TKW Super Rare http://www.ebay.com/itm/251209266521?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBay Store http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633nyc/m.html http://www.meteoritefalls.com/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Everett Gibson for Met Soc Leonard Medal
Everett, I know we have discussed this Amazing fund in person, and I have seen you generously giving pieces if it away! Again congrats on likely the largest Holbrook recovery since Nininger days, even though it was before I was born:) Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 7, 2013, at 12:07 PM, Everett K Gibson wrote: > For the record. The 1968 Holbrook specimen I recovered weighed 1,560 grams > [Meteoritics vol 5, pp 57-60 (1970). E. K. Gibson, Jr]. >Larry, hope this assists with the accounting for Holbrook recovered > specimens. >Everett Gibson > > Sent from my iPhone > Everett K. Gibson > ekgm...@aol.com > 713-898-6998 cell > 281-488-6024 home > 281-483-6224 work > > On Jan 5, 2013, at 9:49 AM, Larry Atkins wrote: > >> >> >> I demand a recount! >> >> My find, in reality, did weigh more than 1.45kg. I didn't sift through >> the sand and I left a bunch of fragments for the next person to come >> along. (Call me crazy!) From what I heard, another~100 grams or so come >> out of the dirt. >> >> I'm gonna think of it as a tie! >> >> Sincerely, >> Larry Atkins >> >> IMCA # 1941 >> Ebay alienrockfarm >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Frank Cressy >> To: Larry Atkins ; rubengarcia85382 >> ; meteorite-list >> >> Sent: Fri, Jan 4, 2013 9:58 pm >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Everett Gibson for Met Soc Leonard Medal >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> Dr. Gibson's stone weighed 1.5 kg. That what his article in >> Meteoritics says. >> (v. 5, no. 1, 1970, "Discovery of another Meteorite Specimen from the >> 1912 >> Holbrook, Arizona Fall Site"). >> Still beat you Larry, but not by much ;-) >> >> >> Frank >> >> >> - Original Message >> From: Larry Atkins >> To: rubengarcia85...@gmail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> Sent: Thu, January 3, 2013 7:53:50 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Everett Gibson for Met Soc Leonard Medal >> >> Hi Ruben, >> >> If Dr. Everette's Holbrook is 3.5 Kilo's, he's got me beat! Mine was a >> measley 1.45 Kg. >> >> >> Sincerely, >> Larry Atkins >> >> IMCA # 1941 >> Ebay alienrockfarm >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Ruben Garcia >> To: Greg Hupé >> Cc: ekgmars ; meteorite-list >> ; metsocsec ; >> palmeherbert >> Sent: Thu, Jan 3, 2013 3:57 pm >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Everett Gibson for Met Soc Leonard Medal >> >> >> Hi Greg, >> >> I second Greg's nomination, and completely agree! I just donated a >> few small specimens to Dr. Everett K. Gibson (and NASA) for some >> spectacular work they're in the midst of. >> >> Some of you many not be aware that Dr. Everett K. Gibson is one of >> Carleton Moore's graduate students and (as far as I know) has the >> record for the second largest Holbrook find in the last 50 years - 3.5 >> kilos. Larry (Lucky Dog) Atkins has the largest! >> >> Keep up the great work! >> >> -- >> >> http://www.MrMeteorite.com >> >> Ruben Garcia >> >> >> >> >> urrently work at NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston. >> >> On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Greg Hupé >> wrote: >>> Dear List Members, >>> >>> For the last two years that I know of, Dr. Everett K. Gibson has been >>> nominated for the Meteoritcal Society’s Leonard Medal and a >> nomination for >>> this year is soon to be made. While I am not a Meteoritical Society >> member >>> at current time, I would encourage as many members to nominate or >> second the >>> nomination of Everett for his outstanding contributions to the >> scientific >>> community and more!! Everett is Senior Scientist and Astrobiologist >> in the >>> Astromaterials Research Office at NASA-JSC. If non-members >> nominations or >>> seconds ARE considered, I certainly do nominate and/or second Everett >> for >>> the Leonard Medal!! >>> >>> The rules allow for any number of seconders. To be a seconder you >> should >>> write (email) to the Chairman of the Leonard Medal Committee Herbert >> Palme >>> (palmeherb...@gmail.com). In case I have that wrong you should send a >> copy >>> to Greg Herzog (metsoc...@gmail.com). The deadline is January 15th. I >> hope >>> you will feel you would like to support Everett. >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> Greg >>> >>> >>> Greg Hupé >>> The Hupé Collection >>> gmh...@centurylink.net >>> www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog & Reference Site) >>> www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) >>> NaturesVault (eBay & Facebook) >>> http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault >>> IMCA 3163 >>> >>> Click here for my current eBay auctions: >>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault >>> >>> >>> >>> __ >>> >>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> __ >> >> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >> Met
Re: [meteorite-list] Dealer views of 2012 Sales
Hi Gary and All, Gary wrote: "My only complaint is the asinine policy changes made by the USPS regarding (small) customs forms." I talked to my local USPS clerk and he stated that the new Federal requirements for the small green customs form (and probably large form, I did not ask) are that the clerk MUST input all of the data we fill in on the forms for Homeland Security and the post office can be fined if they do not abide by these new rules. The customs shop in the country of destination will compare the data from the originating post office and if they do not match, a red flag is drawn and they will handle that package as suspicious and do what they do from there. It is another method to catch mail bombs before they get delivered. So, this is what I learned today, hope it helps! Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog & Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest & eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Gary Fujihara Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 1:26 PM To: Don Merchant Cc: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com ; Don Merchant Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealer views of 2012 Sales Aloha Don, all, 2012 was a strong year for sales off my website and eBay. My only complaint is the asinine policy changes made by the USPS regarding (small) customs forms. International sales have increased substantially (which exacerbates the USPS issues). Don't get me started on eBay. I've been on eBay since 1999, and have watched a slow decline in seller support and increase in seller fees. Those issues notwithstanding, there is no better market to reach global exposure. Sent from Gary's iPhone On Jan 7, 2013, at 6:43 AM, Don Merchant wrote: Hi List. With the economy still weak and recovery being painfully slow, I was curious if any Dealers would like to ping in and give their thoughts of what kind of year (2012) it was for sales of your meteorites, be it on your Website or via eBay. Sincerely Don Merchant Founder-Cosmic Treasures Celestial Wonders www.ctreasurescwonders.com IMCA #0960 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
Jeff, Thanks once again for your information. I have a question; What degree of accuracy does Science have in calculating the exact time a meteorite fell? Is this calculation within one day, one week , one month, one year, or within ten years? which is it and how certain can Science be? Just for one example of why I ask; If I recall correctly, Farmer found a second fall find in Spain (name escapes me at the moment but, was in an olive grove?) about one year later than his first fall find and it still looked fresh. Thanks. Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Jeff Grossman wrote: > I should add: my first two categories are types of falls, whereas the > last three are types of finds. > > Jeff > > On 1/5/2013 8:12 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote: > > In all seriousness, I have considered refining, or at least qualifying > > the definition of "fall." The categories I've considered are these, > > and the definitions are first passes: > > > > Observed fall: observed to fall, either visually or with instruments, > > and collected soon after the event. The event was well documented. > > Physical evidence associated with the collected meteorites is > > consistent with a fresh fall, or, when collection does not occur > > immediately, directly points to a fall at the time of the observed event. > > > > Unobserved fall: No observations were made of a fall event, but > > physical evidence conclusively points to a fall on a specific date or > > within a very narrow range of dates. > > > > Probable fall: In these cases, there was a well-documented meteor > > event with characteristics consistent with a meteorite fall, followed > > by the collection of meteorites some time later. There is a strong > > likelihood that the meteorite fell in the observed event, but physical > > evidence is not fully conclusive. > > > > Possible fall: The same situation as a probable fall, but there is > > significant doubt about whether the meteorite is connected to the > > event or about the reliability of the observations of the event. > > > > Doubtful fall: The same situation as a possible fall, but there is a > > high degree of doubt. > > > > This was all suggested by the circumstances surrounding the Benešov > > (a) and (b) meteorites, which I would have put in the "possible fall" > > category, if such a thing existed. > > > > Jeff > > > > On 1/4/2013 8:57 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: > >> I find this new attempt to change terminology disturbing. I have > >> hundreds of old catalogs from the top museums and dealers from more > >> than 200 years ago till today, all of them list falls and finds. None > >> of them discuss unobserved falls as an acceptable alternative. > >> Are we really ready to just accept anything thrown out there, and > >> watch as all manner of BS is used to discredit hundreds of years of > >> accepted terminology? > >> My private collection focuses on witnessed falls, with date and time > >> and science to back it up. > >> I am not interested in another group which would include every > >> meteorite ever to have fallen, since they did actually all fall at > >> some point. > >> Well, I guess Anne can delete her birthday fall calendar page since > >> now we can simply put every NWA on any date you choose to believe it > >> might have possibly fallen:). > >> > >> > >> Michael Farmer > >> > >> Sent from my iPad > >> > >> On Jan 4, 2013, at 6:47 PM, "Mike Bandli" wrote: > >> > >>> If a meteorite falls from the sky and no one is there to hear it, > >>> does it > >>> make a sound? > >>> > >>> ;^] > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Mike Bandli > >>> Historic Meteorites > >>> www.HistoricMeteorites.com > >>> and join us on Facebook: > >>> www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 > >>> IMCA #5765 > >>> --- > >>> > >>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and > >>> intended > >>> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are > >>> addressed. > >>> If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, > >>> distribute or > >>> copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if > >>> you have > >>> received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your > >>> system. If > >>> you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, > >>> copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the > >>> contents of > >>> this information is strictly prohibited. > >>> > >>> > >>> -Original Message- > >>> From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com > >>> [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of > >>> h...@meteorhall.com > >>> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 5:36 PM > >>> To: Anne Black > >>> Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; valpar...@aol.com > >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day > >>> > >>> Right, Anne. That is why they are referred to as a "Fall" or a "Find". > >>> Concise!
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
I am pretty sure that was Puerto Lapice. Mendy Ouzillou > > From: "cdtuc...@cox.net" >To: Jeff Grossman ; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >Sent: Monday, January 7, 2013 12:29 PM >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day > >Jeff, >Thanks once again for your information. >I have a question; >What degree of accuracy does Science have in calculating the exact time a >meteorite fell? Is this calculation within one day, one week , one month, one >year, or within ten years? which is it and how certain can Science be? Just >for one example of why I ask; If I recall correctly, Farmer found a second >fall find in Spain (name escapes me at the moment but, was in an olive grove?) >about one year later than his first fall find and it still looked fresh. >Thanks. >Carl >meteoritemax >-- >Cheers > > Jeff Grossman wrote: >> I should add: my first two categories are types of falls, whereas the >> last three are types of finds. >> >> Jeff >> >> On 1/5/2013 8:12 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote: >> > In all seriousness, I have considered refining, or at least qualifying >> > the definition of "fall." The categories I've considered are these, >> > and the definitions are first passes: >> > >> > Observed fall: observed to fall, either visually or with instruments, >> > and collected soon after the event. The event was well documented. >> > Physical evidence associated with the collected meteorites is >> > consistent with a fresh fall, or, when collection does not occur >> > immediately, directly points to a fall at the time of the observed event. >> > >> > Unobserved fall: No observations were made of a fall event, but >> > physical evidence conclusively points to a fall on a specific date or >> > within a very narrow range of dates. >> > >> > Probable fall: In these cases, there was a well-documented meteor >> > event with characteristics consistent with a meteorite fall, followed >> > by the collection of meteorites some time later. There is a strong >> > likelihood that the meteorite fell in the observed event, but physical >> > evidence is not fully conclusive. >> > >> > Possible fall: The same situation as a probable fall, but there is >> > significant doubt about whether the meteorite is connected to the >> > event or about the reliability of the observations of the event. >> > >> > Doubtful fall: The same situation as a possible fall, but there is a >> > high degree of doubt. >> > >> > This was all suggested by the circumstances surrounding the Benešov >> > (a) and (b) meteorites, which I would have put in the "possible fall" >> > category, if such a thing existed. >> > >> > Jeff >> > >> > On 1/4/2013 8:57 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: >> >> I find this new attempt to change terminology disturbing. I have >> >> hundreds of old catalogs from the top museums and dealers from more >> >> than 200 years ago till today, all of them list falls and finds. None >> >> of them discuss unobserved falls as an acceptable alternative. >> >> Are we really ready to just accept anything thrown out there, and >> >> watch as all manner of BS is used to discredit hundreds of years of >> >> accepted terminology? >> >> My private collection focuses on witnessed falls, with date and time >> >> and science to back it up. >> >> I am not interested in another group which would include every >> >> meteorite ever to have fallen, since they did actually all fall at >> >> some point. >> >> Well, I guess Anne can delete her birthday fall calendar page since >> >> now we can simply put every NWA on any date you choose to believe it >> >> might have possibly fallen:). >> >> >> >> >> >> Michael Farmer >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> >> On Jan 4, 2013, at 6:47 PM, "Mike Bandli" wrote: >> >> >> >>> If a meteorite falls from the sky and no one is there to hear it, >> >>> does it >> >>> make a sound? >> >>> >> >>> ;^] >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Mike Bandli >> >>> Historic Meteorites >> >>> www.HistoricMeteorites.com >> >>> and join us on Facebook: >> >>> www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 >> >>> IMCA #5765 >> >>> --- >> >>> >> >>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and >> >>> intended >> >>> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are >> >>> addressed. >> >>> If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, >> >>> distribute or >> >>> copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if >> >>> you have >> >>> received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your >> >>> system. If >> >>> you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, >> >>> copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the >> >>> contents of >> >>> this information is strictly prohibited. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -Original Message- >> >>> From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.c
[meteorite-list] Puerto Làpice (was: Meteorite Picture of the Day)
Mendy wrote: "I am pretty sure that was Puerto Lapice." Yep! LLORCA J. et al. (2009) The Puerto Làpice eucrite (MAPS 44-2, 2009, pp. 159-174). TRIGO-RODRIGUEZ et al. (2009) Puerto Làpice eucrite fall: Strewn field, physical description, probable fireball trajectory and orbit (MAPS 44-2, 2009, pp. 175-186). Cheers, Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Times Magazine January 2013 Issue Now Up
Happy New Year Everyone! The January issue of Meteorite Times is now up and is our largest issue ever thanks to all of our amazing contributors. The following URL gives access to the Web Browser View, Flash Magazine View, and Mobile PDF. http://www.meteorite-times.com/monthly-issues/ This page also has an easy way to view all of the "Mag View" issues in the "Archives" section of the page. http://issuu.com/meteorite-times/docs Enjoy! Paul and Jim __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
I made multiple trips to the Puerto Lapice strewn field, and since the meteorite is a Eucrite (virtually no free iron), covered in glossy almost plastic fusion crust, one year after the fall the stones still looked like the day they fell, and stones are still ring found there. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 7, 2013, at 2:52 PM, Mendy Ouzillou wrote: > > I am pretty sure that was Puerto Lapice. > > > Mendy Ouzillou > > >> >> From: "cdtuc...@cox.net" >> To: Jeff Grossman ; >> meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> Sent: Monday, January 7, 2013 12:29 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day >> >> Jeff, >> Thanks once again for your information. >> I have a question; >> What degree of accuracy does Science have in calculating the exact time a >> meteorite fell? Is this calculation within one day, one week , one month, >> one year, or within ten years? which is it and how certain can Science be? >> Just for one example of why I ask; If I recall correctly, Farmer found a >> second fall find in Spain (name escapes me at the moment but, was in an >> olive grove?) about one year later than his first fall find and it still >> looked fresh. Thanks. >> Carl >> meteoritemax >> -- >> Cheers >> >> Jeff Grossman wrote: >>> I should add: my first two categories are types of falls, whereas the >>> last three are types of finds. >>> >>> Jeff >>> >>> On 1/5/2013 8:12 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote: In all seriousness, I have considered refining, or at least qualifying the definition of "fall." The categories I've considered are these, and the definitions are first passes: Observed fall: observed to fall, either visually or with instruments, and collected soon after the event. The event was well documented. Physical evidence associated with the collected meteorites is consistent with a fresh fall, or, when collection does not occur immediately, directly points to a fall at the time of the observed event. Unobserved fall: No observations were made of a fall event, but physical evidence conclusively points to a fall on a specific date or within a very narrow range of dates. Probable fall: In these cases, there was a well-documented meteor event with characteristics consistent with a meteorite fall, followed by the collection of meteorites some time later. There is a strong likelihood that the meteorite fell in the observed event, but physical evidence is not fully conclusive. Possible fall: The same situation as a probable fall, but there is significant doubt about whether the meteorite is connected to the event or about the reliability of the observations of the event. Doubtful fall: The same situation as a possible fall, but there is a high degree of doubt. This was all suggested by the circumstances surrounding the Benešov (a) and (b) meteorites, which I would have put in the "possible fall" category, if such a thing existed. Jeff On 1/4/2013 8:57 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: > I find this new attempt to change terminology disturbing. I have > hundreds of old catalogs from the top museums and dealers from more > than 200 years ago till today, all of them list falls and finds. None > of them discuss unobserved falls as an acceptable alternative. > Are we really ready to just accept anything thrown out there, and > watch as all manner of BS is used to discredit hundreds of years of > accepted terminology? > My private collection focuses on witnessed falls, with date and time > and science to back it up. > I am not interested in another group which would include every > meteorite ever to have fallen, since they did actually all fall at > some point. > Well, I guess Anne can delete her birthday fall calendar page since > now we can simply put every NWA on any date you choose to believe it > might have possibly fallen:). > > > Michael Farmer > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jan 4, 2013, at 6:47 PM, "Mike Bandli" wrote: > >> If a meteorite falls from the sky and no one is there to hear it, >> does it >> make a sound? >> >> ;^] >> >> -- >> Mike Bandli >> Historic Meteorites >> www.HistoricMeteorites.com >> and join us on Facebook: >> www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 >> IMCA #5765 >> --- >> >> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and >> intended >> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are >> addressed. >> If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, >> distribute or >> copy this e-mail. Please notify the sen
[meteorite-list] To my Tucson friends...
Happy New Year! I hope life is treating you all kindly. I'm looking forward to seeing you all next month, but I've apparently procrastinated too long and my usual accomadations are unavailable. I'm wondering if anyone has an extra room in their home they wouldn't mind sharing. Karen and I would be happy to return the favor in our new home in southern Utah, near Capitol Reef N.P. (Of course, you'd want to wait till our weather warms up a bit!) Otherwise, I'm sure I'll find something, but I'd rather spend the money on meteorites anyway! ;^) Thanks. And see you all soon! Linton __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] "Find", "Fall" Terminology
All, The terms "find" and "fall" are concise and understood by everyone in the meteorite community. I don't see the need to introduce terms that may lead to more ambiguity. For example: if "find" is changed to "unobserved fall" in describing a meteorite it could possibly be an outright false statement since it could have been observed by many people but never reported or recorded. Also, do we include other animals when we refer to "observed"? Who knows who or what observed one of those that we call "find", so let's just leave it at that and continue to call it a "find". The term "fall" as it is now used means that we have a pretty good record that someone actually saw it streak through the atmosphere and recoveries were soon made in the projected fall area. In some cases people have witnessed the actual impact or impacts as they happened but this is not required to call it a fall. Occasionally it may be years before a witnessed event produces recovered meteorites but if we know the fall area we can tie it to the event and still call it a probable fall and end up using just "fall" with a fairly high degree of accuracy. For practicality and to tie in with what has been used and understood for years, I think we should continue to use the terms "find" and "fall". My best, Thomas __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] To my Tucson friends...
Linton makes a fine point, Many of you coming to Tucson have not made plane or hotel reservations, that is a mistake! Every flight, hotel, and rental car in this city is usually booked up for the show. It is very easy to fly into Phoenix and either rent a car there or take a shuttle van ~$50 each way from the airport direct to Tucson every hour. Car rental is best option as the show is huge, and covers the entire city. Make those plans, it gets expensive if you don't. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 6, 2013, at 2:46 PM, "Linton Rohr" wrote: > Happy New Year! I hope life is treating you all kindly. > I'm looking forward to seeing you all next month, but I've apparently > procrastinated too long and my usual accomadations are unavailable. I'm > wondering if anyone has an extra room in their home they wouldn't mind > sharing. Karen and I would be happy to return the favor in our new home in > southern Utah, near Capitol Reef N.P. (Of course, you'd want to wait till our > weather warms up a bit!) Otherwise, I'm sure I'll find something, but I'd > rather spend the money on meteorites anyway! ;^) > Thanks. And see you all soon! > Linton > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] "Find", "Fall" Terminology
I find that I prefer 'fall' and 'find' as well, straight to the point. Now I better get back to work before I fall behind any more!! ;-) Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog & Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest & eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Thomas Webb Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 5:51 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] "Find", "Fall" Terminology All, The terms "find" and "fall" are concise and understood by everyone in the meteorite community. I don't see the need to introduce terms that may lead to more ambiguity. For example: if "find" is changed to "unobserved fall" in describing a meteorite it could possibly be an outright false statement since it could have been observed by many people but never reported or recorded. Also, do we include other animals when we refer to "observed"? Who knows who or what observed one of those that we call "find", so let's just leave it at that and continue to call it a "find". The term "fall" as it is now used means that we have a pretty good record that someone actually saw it streak through the atmosphere and recoveries were soon made in the projected fall area. In some cases people have witnessed the actual impact or impacts as they happened but this is not required to call it a fall. Occasionally it may be years before a witnessed event produces recovered meteorites but if we know the fall area we can tie it to the event and still call it a probable fall and end up using just "fall" with a fairly high degree of accuracy. For practicality and to tie in with what has been used and understood for years, I think we should continue to use the terms "find" and "fall". My best, Thomas __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Invitation to View David Weir's 'MeteoriteStudies.com'
Second everything about Mr. Weir. His website is very informative. If the website was a book on my shelf, it would be well-worn, spine broken, binding loose, dogeared, and discolored from frequent long-term useage. Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone RSS - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 - On 1/7/13, Kevin Kichinka wrote: > Team Meteorite: > > > If you have never visited this authoritative website dedicated to > meteorites, take a look now and I'm sure that you will bookmark its > URL for further reference. David continuously reads and evaluates the > latest research papers on meteorites, updating his site with the most > relevant data. > > Accompanied by meteorite backstories illustrated with images of > specimens, MeteoriteStudies.com is the world's #1 'go to' website for > all involved in the search, study and collection of meteorites. > > I asked David how he got started in the hobby and the impetus for his > website. > > "When I was 5 years old, my brother and I found a strange melted stone > in a shallow depression in our backyard. He said it was probably a > meteorite, and that assumption was verified by his elementary school > teacher. Of course, the material was actually slag from the > fireplace, but that event created an awe in my mind about such things. > > I began my meteorite studies website as a notebook of sorts to keep up > with the rapid increase in "modern" research results in the field of > meteoritics, and my interest in the subject has grown exponentially." > > Seeing first light in 1997, the website is approaching it's 16th > anniversary of serving collectors worldwide. > > I am writing in support for this site today because I am honored to > again have some of my work selected to appear there. David has just > added my latest expo, "The Rise of the Raj and the Fall of Shergotty". > > To persuade you to check out his site and then the Shergotty story, I > am pleased to post his review (used by permission) - > > "I suddenly finished the conclusion of your novella about the fall of > Shergotty, and wished for more. The results are superior. The story of > Shergotty could only have been expanded into such an enjoyable novella > by you, and your talent is worthy of an award." > > No awards necessary, I'm just the messenger. > > But I hope to enthusiastically encourage list members to check out > David's site now before you forget, and after being amazed by the > wealth of information and bookmarking it for later reference, take > awhile to read the powerful story of a namesake of Mars meteorites, > with illustrations by Dorothy Norton. > > "“I at first doubted whether it was a true aerolite or not, in > consequence of the colour being different from the one that fell in > the Furreedpore District in 1850... but I find from Mr. Peppe, the > Sub-Deputy Opium Agent, that there can be no doubt of its being a true > aerolite, as he has seen two that fell in the District...” (This > account of the fall of Shergotty is found in a deposition submitted in > late 1865 by W.C. Costley, Deputy Magistrate in Bihar, India.) > > And perhaps another day, return to learn more about the meteorites in > your collection, and then spend some quality time in post-Napoleonic > France, reading about the October, 1815 fall of Chassigny... > > "... where upon the plateau above Dijon, when like all stillness this > one was also broken, not from an echo of Waterloo, but by a volley > from the God of War." > > Then complete the only trilogy of Mars namesake meteorite falls by > becoming acquainted with Nakhla... > > "El Nakhla El Baharia. The original name for a piece of Mars fallen > from the heavens, impacting the ancient dust of the Pharaohs, an > object now probed by scholars seeking signs of life lived on that > world. The Holy Grail of meteorites. " > > Following your walk through Nakhla's 'science and circumstances', > consider then the detailed, forensic evidence related to the 'tale of > the dog' legendarily left "like ashes in a moment" - our hobby's most > compelling legend. Written in 1998, this description remains the only > comprehensive, scholarly look at this event. Recently, David > thoughtfully reviewed the evidence again and his new commentary > appears, constraining the argument further. > > I am grateful to David for growing my audience of readers by adding my > work to his. In our 'pay-per-view' world, Meteoritestudies.com allows > everyone to freely reference and learn about the rocks from space that > enthrall us all. > > >From Nine Degrees North > > Kevin Kichinka > Rio del Oro, Santa Ana, Costa Rica > 'The Global Meteorite Price Report - 2013' > www.theartofcollectingmeteorites.com > __
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
Ah-ha! Now I know what Greg's black page was.the unobsevered un-fallen non-fall - Original Message - From: "Greg Hupé" To: ; ; "Anne Black" Cc: ; Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 7:37 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day Yes, of course all meteorites fell on Earth therefore they are 'falls'! When many people are infected with this extended 'fall' flu, the best medicine for a cure can only be administered by humor... Dr. Greg is in the house! ;-) Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog & Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (eBay & Facebook) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Anne Black Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 8:27 PM To: h...@meteorhall.com ; m...@meteoriteguy.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com ; valpar...@aol.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day Every single meteorite ever found on Earth is necessarily the result of a fall, they are not native to Earth. The only difference is that some falls are seen, witnessed, and some, the vast majoriry, are not. So calling them Observed or Unobserved falls is logical. That is what happened to all of them. That is simple reality. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- tFrom: hall To: Michael Farmer Cc: meteorite-list ; valparint Sent: Fri, Jan 4, 2013 6:13 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day An "unobserved fall" is two words to describe the one word that has been used for a century, "Find". The one word "Find" is good enough for the Catalogue of Meteorites, it was good enough for Harvey Nininger, and it is what I shall always use. Keep it concise. Regards, Fred Hall That would make sense for say New Orleans, where a stone went through a house and no one in their right mind would suggest that it did not fall at that time say between 8 am and 4 pm when there was no hole in the house, yet it was not seen to fall. An old rock found in a field does not suggest anything about fall date. So it is a find, something never really argued against until now? It has crust which can suggest it is not thousands of years old, most of our Springwater meteorites have black and blue crust but nevertheless it is a find. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 4, 2013, at 10:28 AM, wrote: An "unobserved fall" is, well, a fall that was not observed, in contradistinction to a fall that was observed. The terminology of the Meteoritical Bulletin Database is "Observed fall: no". The information being conveyed is NOT that the meteorite fell but that the fall was not observed. In general, the questions about falling and finding are: 1) was the fall observed? 2) if so, when was it observed? 3) if not, is there any guesstimate of when it fell? 4) regardless of weather it was observed or not, when was it actually found? Paul Swartz MPOD webmaster What is an "unobserved fall"? Every meteorite fell at some point. I have thousands of unobserved falls in my collection. Michael Farmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
Anyone can put anything on the internet and it doesn't make it true. This new term only exists on one web page. May it stay in quarantine there. Michael in so. Cal. On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 8:09 PM, Martin Altmann wrote: > "they are not native to Earth." > > Ouch, Anne, cat-piano... > > Does that mean a paradigm shift in the IMCA rules? > > Really no offense intended, > though at least the German collectors are waiting since last August for a > definite clarification how to apply the "CoE" in that respect. Would be > nice... > > "Unobserved fall", > Please folks, don't make such a bugbear out of that, like it had happened > with the so called "hammer falls"! > I think, meteorites are already expensive enough > > "Fallen find" > > Skol! > Martin > > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- > Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Anne > Black > Gesendet: Samstag, 5. Januar 2013 02:28 > An: h...@meteorhall.com; m...@meteoriteguy.com > Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; valpar...@aol.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day > > Every single meteorite ever found on Earth is necessarily the result of a > fall, they are not native to Earth. The only difference is that some falls > are seen, witnessed, and some, the vast majoriry, are not. > > So calling them Observed or Unobserved falls is logical. That is what > happened to all of them. > That is simple reality. > > > Anne M. Black > www.IMPACTIKA.com > impact...@aol.com > > > > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Falls and finds
Hi Mike and Michael, The only time I could see this being used reasonably is under Circumstances where there is a fall that is not seen with the eye But is noted within 24hrs. We have seen this on more than one occasion - such as a Family goes to bed and may or may not hear a crash but in the Morning a meteorite is found to have smashed the car in the Garage, coming through the roof (Warden) or the like. I could see that referred to as "an unobserved fall" - but I am confident it is recorded as a "fall." I am sure there are many, Many others where a meteorite is found within 24 hrs of the Fall so the date of the fall is known, though the fall was technically "unobserved" - but I see no reason to become so specific other than In notations of the details - and most certainly not as a separate "classification," as what has already been noted: all "finds" were "unobserved falls" if you use the term loosely. Michael On 1/7/13 9:15 AM, "Michael Farmer" wrote: > Why don't we just leave things that work as they are? In more than 18 years of > selling meteorites, I have never heard of finds morphing into "unobserved > falls". Poor marketing gimmick to try and remake finds into something more > interesting (not sure who buys into such scams). > If there is some anecdotal evidence that a meteorite may be a fall it is > usually noted in the writeup. > Any label I get describing a meteorite as an "unobserved fall" will be > promptly thrown where it belongs, in the trash heap of schemes and scams:) > By the way, has the Alpha-site been disclosed yet, or is that still a > "secret"? > > Michael Farmer > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jan 6, 2013, at 10:52 PM, Michael Mulgrew wrote: > >> Maybe we need to try a different language. How about the universal >> language of mathematics? >> >> [Observed fall: No] != [unobserved fall] >> >> or >> >> IF(observed fall, fall, find) >> >> >> Nip this in the bud before someone makes up a term for an unobserved >> meteor... >> >> >> -Michael in so. Cal. >> >> On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Michael Farmer wrote: >>> Noit makes perfect sense actually, is it a fall or a find. I spoke to Garvie >>> yesterday, who made very clear there are only two terms, fall or find. >>> You would make a great politician, mincing words until no logic is left to >>> find. >>> An old meteorite found in a field was found, thus a find. >>> been that way for centuries, no need to change it now. >>> >>> Michael Farmer >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Jan 5, 2013, at 9:30 AM, wrote: >>> Mike, The Meteoritical Bulletin Database uses the following terminology: Observed fall: No Does that disturb you? Paul Swartz > I find this new attempt to change terminology disturbing. I have hundreds > of old catalogs from the top museums and dealers from more than 200 years > ago till today, all of them list falls and finds. None of them discuss > unobserved falls as an acceptable alternative. > Are we really ready to just accept anything thrown out there, and watch as > all manner of BS is used to discredit hundreds of years of accepted > terminology? > My private collection focuses on witnessed falls, with date and time and > science to back it up. > I am not interested in another group which would include every meteorite > ever to have fallen, since they did actually all fall at some point. > Well, I guess Anne can delete her birthday fall calendar page since now we > can simply put every NWA on any date you choose to believe it might have > possibly fallen:). >>> __ >>> >>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> __ >> >> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dealer views of 2012 Sales (eBay)
Hi Adam and all, Since the flood of examples cited below I will now ONLY send Ebay purchases with a required signature in the US or Registered Mail overseas. That should take care of that. Michael On 1/7/13 9:43 AM, "Adam Hupe" wrote: >... as Mike pointed out, eBay is > becoming more and more difficult to deal with. 2012 held a record number of > unpaid item disputes and "lost" sent packages for me. It seems some people > have fun bidding on items but refuse to pay for them with no real recourse > from eBay. If any item is "lost" then a seller can count on not recovering > any funds since PayPal maintains the right to manage all of your money in > their account. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Curiosity Rover Makes First Use of its Brush
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?release=2013-009 NASA's Big Mars Rover Makes First Use of its Brush Jet Propulsion Laboratory January 07, 2013 PASADENA, Calif. -- NASA's Mars rover Curiosity has completed first-time use of a brush it carries to sweep dust off rocks. Nearing the end of a series of first-time uses of the rover's tools, the mission has cleared dust away from a targeted patch on a flat Martian rock using the Dust Removal Tool. The tool is a motorized, wire-bristle brush designed to prepare selected rock surfaces for enhanced inspection by the rover's science instruments. It is built into the turret at the end of the rover's arm. In particular, the Alpha Particle X-ray Spectrometer and the Mars Hand Lens Imager, which share the turret with the brush and the rover's hammering drill, can gain information after dust removal that would not be accessible from a dust-blanketed rock. Choosing an appropriate target was crucial for the first-time use of the Dust Removal Tool. The chosen target, called "Ekwir_1," is on a rock in the "Yellowknife Bay" area of Mars' Gale Crater. The rover team is also evaluating rocks in that area as potential targets for first use of the rover's hammering drill in coming weeks. Images of the brushed area on Ekwir are online at http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA16565 and http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA16566 . "We wanted to be sure we had an optimal target for the first use," said Diana Trujillo of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., the mission's activity lead for the Dust Removal Tool. "We need to place the instrument within less than half an inch of the target without putting the hardware at risk. We needed a flat target, one that wasn't rough, one that was covered with dust. The results certainly look good." Honeybee Robotics, New York, N.Y., built the Dust Removal Tool for Curiosity, as well as tools for two previous Mars rovers, Spirit and Opportunity, which included wire brushes plus rock-grinding mechanisms. NASA's Mars Science Laboratory project is using Curiosity to investigate whether the study area within Gale Crater has offered environmental conditions favorable for microbial life. JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, manages the Mars Science Laboratory mission for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington. For more information about the mission, visit http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/msl , http://www.nasa.gov/msl and http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl . Follow the mission on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/marscuriosity and on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/marscuriosity . Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webs...@jpl.nasa.gov 2013-009 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Everett Gibson for Met Soc Leonard Medal
Hello Everett, How exciting to have you chime in on this! It looks like our two stones weighed very near the same. When you found yours, I was only three years old, a long way off from my meteorite hunting days! I was wondering about the degree of weathering of your stone when found in 1968, was it in pieces or was it whole? Also, are there any pictures of it, and where might it reside now? Thanks! Sincerely, Larry Atkins IMCA # 1941 Ebay alienrockfarm -Original Message- From: Everett K Gibson To: Larry Atkins Cc: meteorite-list Sent: Mon, Jan 7, 2013 12:03 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Everett Gibson for Met Soc Leonard Medal For the record. The 1968 Holbrook specimen I recovered weighed 1,560 grams [Meteoritics vol 5, pp 57-60 (1970). E. K. Gibson, Jr]. Larry, hope this assists with the accounting for Holbrook recovered specimens. Everett Gibson Sent from my iPhone Everett K. Gibson ekgm...@aol.com 713-898-6998 cell 281-488-6024 home 281-483-6224 work On Jan 5, 2013, at 9:49 AM, Larry Atkins wrote: I demand a recount! My find, in reality, did weigh more than 1.45kg. I didn't sift through the sand and I left a bunch of fragments for the next person to come along. (Call me crazy!) From what I heard, another~100 grams or so come out of the dirt. I'm gonna think of it as a tie! Sincerely, Larry Atkins IMCA # 1941 Ebay alienrockfarm -Original Message- From: Frank Cressy To: Larry Atkins ; rubengarcia85382 ; meteorite-list Sent: Fri, Jan 4, 2013 9:58 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Everett Gibson for Met Soc Leonard Medal Hi all, Dr. Gibson's stone weighed 1.5 kg. That what his article in Meteoritics says. (v. 5, no. 1, 1970, "Discovery of another Meteorite Specimen from the 1912 Holbrook, Arizona Fall Site"). Still beat you Larry, but not by much ;-) Frank - Original Message From: Larry Atkins To: rubengarcia85...@gmail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, January 3, 2013 7:53:50 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Everett Gibson for Met Soc Leonard Medal Hi Ruben, If Dr. Everette's Holbrook is 3.5 Kilo's, he's got me beat! Mine was a measley 1.45 Kg. Sincerely, Larry Atkins IMCA # 1941 Ebay alienrockfarm -Original Message- From: Ruben Garcia To: Greg Hupé Cc: ekgmars ; meteorite-list ; metsocsec ; palmeherbert Sent: Thu, Jan 3, 2013 3:57 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Everett Gibson for Met Soc Leonard Medal Hi Greg, I second Greg's nomination, and completely agree! I just donated a few small specimens to Dr. Everett K. Gibson (and NASA) for some spectacular work they're in the midst of. Some of you many not be aware that Dr. Everett K. Gibson is one of Carleton Moore's graduate students and (as far as I know) has the record for the second largest Holbrook find in the last 50 years - 3.5 kilos. Larry (Lucky Dog) Atkins has the largest! Keep up the great work! -- http://www.MrMeteorite.com Ruben Garcia urrently work at NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston. On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Greg Hupé wrote: Dear List Members, For the last two years that I know of, Dr. Everett K. Gibson has been nominated for the Meteoritcal Society’s Leonard Medal and a nomination for this year is soon to be made. While I am not a Meteoritical Society member at current time, I would encourage as many members to nominate or second the nomination of Everett for his outstanding contributions to the scientific community and more!! Everett is Senior Scientist and Astrobiologist in the Astromaterials Research Office at NASA-JSC. If non-members nominations or seconds ARE considered, I certainly do nominate and/or second Everett for the Leonard Medal!! The rules allow for any number of seconders. To be a seconder you should write (email) to the Chairman of the Leonard Medal Committee Herbert Palme (palmeherb...@gmail.com). In case I have that wrong you should send a copy to Greg Herzog (metsoc...@gmail.com). The deadline is January 15th. I hope you will feel you would like to support Everett. Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog & Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (eBay & Facebook) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __
Re: [meteorite-list] Puerto Làpice (was: Meteorite Picture of the Day)
I agree, Puerto Lapice. It's on the top of my wish list before I move on Cheers John On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 2:10 PM, Bernd V. Pauli wrote: > > Mendy wrote: "I am pretty sure that was Puerto Lapice." > > Yep! > > LLORCA J. et al. (2009) The Puerto Làpice eucrite (MAPS 44-2, 2009, pp. > 159-174). > > TRIGO-RODRIGUEZ et al. (2009) Puerto Làpice eucrite fall: Strewn field, > physical description, probable fireball trajectory and orbit (MAPS 44-2, > 2009, pp. 175-186). > > Cheers, > > Bernd > > > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] To my Tucson friends...
G'Day Linton, Michael and List Very good advice Michael. I opted to drive from L.A., hotel is booked. Look forward to seeing everyone. Cheers John On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: > Linton makes a fine point, > Many of you coming to Tucson have not made plane or hotel reservations, that > is a mistake! Every flight, hotel, and rental car in this city is usually > booked up for the show. It is very easy to fly into Phoenix and either rent a > car there or take a shuttle van ~$50 each way from the airport direct to > Tucson every hour. Car rental is best option as the show is huge, and covers > the entire city. > Make those plans, it gets expensive if you don't. > Michael Farmer > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 6, 2013, at 2:46 PM, "Linton Rohr" wrote: > >> Happy New Year! I hope life is treating you all kindly. >> I'm looking forward to seeing you all next month, but I've apparently >> procrastinated too long and my usual accomadations are unavailable. I'm >> wondering if anyone has an extra room in their home they wouldn't mind >> sharing. Karen and I would be happy to return the favor in our new home in >> southern Utah, near Capitol Reef N.P. (Of course, you'd want to wait till >> our weather warms up a bit!) Otherwise, I'm sure I'll find something, but >> I'd rather spend the money on meteorites anyway! ;^) >> Thanks. And see you all soon! >> Linton >> __ >> >> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Black Beauty on the open market?
Hello Listers I was wondering, will this meteorite ever be sold on the open market or has it be donated to science already because of its rarity? And if so, what would be the value? I mean in science terms, this find could have a few billion $ value or more cause that is how much it would cost to build a rover that could bring back a sample like black beauty from Mars Shawn Alan ebay store http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633nyc/m.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Driving vs. flying
Hi John, I'm driving from SoCal as well. Saves the hassle and expense of flying (which limits what I can bring) and then having to rent a car. Also, unlike a rental car, with my own vehicle I can go off-road if I want, which is handy if you plan to do a little space-rock hunting along the way! --Rob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of John Cabassi Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 6:27 PM To: Michael Farmer Cc: Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] To my Tucson friends... G'Day Linton, Michael and List Very good advice Michael. I opted to drive from L.A., hotel is booked. Look forward to seeing everyone. Cheers John __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Driving vs. flying
G'Day Rob My sentiments entirely. I love the thrill of getting out and this year has been lacking that and usually we tend to get off the beaten track to take a break and to look for those elusive illegal rocks that entered the United States without papers. Hope to see you in Tucson Cheers John On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 7:03 PM, Matson, Robert D. wrote: > Hi John, > > I'm driving from SoCal as well. Saves the hassle and expense of > flying (which limits what I can bring) and then having to rent a > car. Also, unlike a rental car, with my own vehicle I can go > off-road if I want, which is handy if you plan to do a little > space-rock hunting along the way! --Rob > > -Original Message- > From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of John > Cabassi > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 6:27 PM > To: Michael Farmer > Cc: > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] To my Tucson friends... > > G'Day Linton, Michael and List > > Very good advice Michael. I opted to drive from L.A., hotel is booked. > Look forward to seeing everyone. > > Cheers > John > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Driving vs. flying
Driving vs Flying is a question of starting point and logistics. For east coasters that's a total of 5000+ miles round trip and 4-5 nights of hotels to account for all that + gas (~170 gallons for a decent vehicle). That comes to roughly $1600 and a week of your life that you could spend doing other things. Flying: Airfare $350 roundtrip, Car rental $120/week: Which comes to approximately $900 (that's including various fees). There will be additional fees for mailing your stuff home. Oh, and you get several free days which you didn't spend driving. So ya, if you're within a day or two driving distance then driving is better. Further out and it may not be worth it. Math! See ya'll in Tucson. -Yinan On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 10:03 PM, Matson, Robert D. wrote: > Hi John, > > I'm driving from SoCal as well. Saves the hassle and expense of > flying (which limits what I can bring) and then having to rent a > car. Also, unlike a rental car, with my own vehicle I can go > off-road if I want, which is handy if you plan to do a little > space-rock hunting along the way! --Rob > > -Original Message- > From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of John > Cabassi > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 6:27 PM > To: Michael Farmer > Cc: > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] To my Tucson friends... > > G'Day Linton, Michael and List > > Very good advice Michael. I opted to drive from L.A., hotel is booked. > Look forward to seeing everyone. > > Cheers > John > > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Driving vs. flying
I don't have much of a choice. Driving of course. The largest Suburban I can get from Hertz. Roughly 1000 miles each way, with a very heavy vehicle, filled to the roof. See you all there. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Yinan Wang To: Matson, Robert D. Cc: meteorite-list ; John Cabassi Sent: Mon, Jan 7, 2013 8:39 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Driving vs. flying Driving vs Flying is a question of starting point and logistics. For east coasters that's a total of 5000+ miles round trip and 4-5 nights of hotels to account for all that + gas (~170 gallons for a decent vehicle). That comes to roughly $1600 and a week of your life that you could spend doing other things. Flying: Airfare $350 roundtrip, Car rental $120/week: Which comes to approximately $900 (that's including various fees). There will be additional fees for mailing your stuff home. Oh, and you get several free days which you didn't spend driving. So ya, if you're within a day or two driving distance then driving is better. Further out and it may not be worth it. Math! See ya'll in Tucson. -Yinan On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 10:03 PM, Matson, Robert D. wrote: Hi John, I'm driving from SoCal as well. Saves the hassle and expense of flying (which limits what I can bring) and then having to rent a car. Also, unlike a rental car, with my own vehicle I can go off-road if I want, which is handy if you plan to do a little space-rock hunting along the way! --Rob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of John Cabassi Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 6:27 PM To: Michael Farmer Cc: Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] To my Tucson friends... G'Day Linton, Michael and List Very good advice Michael. I opted to drive from L.A., hotel is booked. Look forward to seeing everyone. Cheers John __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Black Beauty on the open market?
Hello Listers I agree it is nice meteorite and could see the value being around Nakhla too. But in the name of science I guess they can argue its that much or more. But at the end of the day I hope some will come to light in the open market so everyone can enjoy a piece of science . Shawn A ebay store http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633nyc/m.html - Original Message - From: Michael Farmer To: Shawn Alan Cc: Meteorite Central Sent: Monday, January 7, 2013 9:59 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Black Beauty on the open market? It is nice, but I don't see why it would be much more valuable than say Nakhla or Shergotty. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 7, 2013, at 7:53 PM, Shawn Alan wrote: > Hello Listers > > I was wondering, will this meteorite ever be sold on the open market or has > it > be donated to science already because of its rarity? And if so, what would be > the > value? I mean in science terms, this find could have a few billion $ value or > more cause > that is how much it would cost to build a rover that could bring back a > sample like > black beauty from Mars > > Shawn Alan > ebay store > http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633nyc/m.html > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
Today's Meteorite Picture of the Day: Orgueil Contributed by: Anne Black http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpod.asp __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
