Re: [meteorite-list] Questions About NWA 7034,

[Bigjohn Shea via Meteorite-list]

“You, a thief, admitted by yourself, to stealing by claiming a pairing number 
to John Higgins material.  Mr. Higgins likely paid several hundreds of dollars 
to have it studied and the grams donated as a type specimen.”

Seriously...?
This is why he’s a “thief”? Because he self-paired some specimens to a 
meteorite that Higgins had classified?

This is a joke, right? 

How about every merchant who ever self-paired a specimen to NWA 869? How about 
every merchant who ever self-paired a specimen to Taza? How about every hunter 
who self-pairs a specimen to a DCA in the US deserts? How about every merchant 
who bought a bunch of NWA 6963 that was self-paired in Tucson this year, and 
just listed it for sale on ebay? 

Are these people all thieves too? Someone somewhere payed for all those 
classifications and gave up the material for the type specimen, just like John 
Higgins did.

Reign in your attitudes everyone. You don’t get to call someone a thief for 
doing what many MANY other known merchants do every single day.

John A. Shea, MD
IMCA 3295





Sent using the mail.com mail app

On 3/13/18 at 7:37 PM, drtanuki via Meteorite-list wrote:

> Dear Mr. Nourddine Azelmat, (Adam, John Higgins, and John MD,
> 
>   Nourddine, 
> I have now received FOUR copies of your same message as below.  A person that 
> posts the same message four times? And it is the truth???  Your honor and 
> truth diminished after the second post- now four.
> 
> Mr. John Higgins is a very honorable meteorite dealer. He would not lie about 
> dealings with you.
> 
> You, a thief, admitted by yourself, to stealing by claiming a pairing number 
> to John Higgins material.  Mr. Higgins likely paid several hundreds of 
> dollars to have it studied and the grams donated as a type specimen.  
> 
> Please do not reply on list as I cannot bear reading your message another 
> four times.
> Good day. 
> Dirk Ross...Tokyo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: nourddine azelmat via Meteorite-list 
> 
> To: "meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com" 
>  
> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 5:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Questions About NWA 7034,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear John/Adam/List,
> 
> I am greatly saddened to be dragged into what I can only assume is
> 'politically' motivated debate. 
> For my part, I have never heard of this 3KG of Black Beauty, and it is
> frankly farcical to suggest I am part of a conspiracy to keep this off
> market.
> The linking of my few grams, as evidence of a secret cache of Black Beauty
> is at best delusional.
> 
> I have been dealing in meteorites for a number of years and recently on ebay
> where my feedback is 99 percent positive (only negative was someone wanted a
> certificate of authenticity that was never mentioned in the listing).
> 
> My 3g (please note not KG) of BB came from hunters I have known for years
> and I trust absolutely. The material was found in November 2017 in the Sbita
> area " known strewn field of black beauty" and the balance of the parcel was
> sold to a dealer in Belgium. 
> 
> As with the majority of non NWA XXX meteorites I sell, a fragment of my
> material was recently sent to the LFP lab in Germany for analysis (not
> classification) and should it prove to be anything other than BB, I would
> give a full refund. Frankly, given my knowledge and trust of the hunters,
> the probability that they have defrauded me is zero.
> 
> This list has seen the drama of bad US dealers, bad Moroccan dealers, family
> rifts and petty squabbles played out ad-nauseum. However, its use to damage
> people who are doing their absolute best to build a good business is in my
> opinion at least, immensely sad and nothing more than playground bullying. 
> 
> I have many customers who have purchased multiple from me and several have
> become genuine friends, it is that aspect of this community which I love,
> sadly there is a Janus Face to this community.
> 
> John Higgins is angry with me for selling pieces of the Tindouf, Algerian
> Lunar and calling them 'paired NWA 10265' - which is his classification for
> this material. There is zero debate my material is the Algerian Lunar but I
> simply used one of the many many classification numbers associated with it.
> Hands up, I should have just called it Tindouf, Algerian Lunar,  but it is
> utterly wrong to suggest this was an attempt to defraud anyone. Claiming a
> specific classification of the same material is more 'special' than all the
> generic Tindouf material it all represents, is a far greater
> misrepresentation in my opinion.
> 
> I am neither part of an evil conspiracy to keep BB off the market or a bad
> player, I just am trying to make a living and build a long term client 
> business in a field I love.
> __
> 
> Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the 
> Archives at 

Re: [meteorite-list] Questions About NWA 7034,

[drtanuki via Meteorite-list]

Dear Mr. Nourddine Azelmat, (Adam, John Higgins, and John MD,

  Nourddine, 
I have now received FOUR copies of your same message as below.  A person that 
posts the same message four times? And it is the truth???  Your honor and truth 
diminished after the second post- now four.

Mr. John Higgins is a very honorable meteorite dealer. He would not lie about 
dealings with you.

You, a thief, admitted by yourself, to stealing by claiming a pairing number to 
John Higgins material.  Mr. Higgins likely paid several hundreds of dollars to 
have it studied and the grams donated as a type specimen.  

Please do not reply on list as I cannot bear reading your message another four 
times.
Good day. 
Dirk Ross...Tokyo




From: nourddine azelmat via Meteorite-list 
To: "meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com"  
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Questions About NWA 7034,




Dear John/Adam/List,

I am greatly saddened to be dragged into what I can only assume is
'politically' motivated debate. 
For my part, I have never heard of this 3KG of Black Beauty, and it is
frankly farcical to suggest I am part of a conspiracy to keep this off
market.
The linking of my few grams, as evidence of a secret cache of Black Beauty
is at best delusional.

I have been dealing in meteorites for a number of years and recently on ebay
where my feedback is 99 percent positive (only negative was someone wanted a
certificate of authenticity that was never mentioned in the listing).

My 3g (please note not KG) of BB came from hunters I have known for years
and I trust absolutely. The material was found in November 2017 in the Sbita
area " known strewn field of black beauty" and the balance of the parcel was
sold to a dealer in Belgium. 

As with the majority of non NWA XXX meteorites I sell, a fragment of my
material was recently sent to the LFP lab in Germany for analysis (not
classification) and should it prove to be anything other than BB, I would
give a full refund. Frankly, given my knowledge and trust of the hunters,
the probability that they have defrauded me is zero.

This list has seen the drama of bad US dealers, bad Moroccan dealers, family
rifts and petty squabbles played out ad-nauseum. However, its use to damage
people who are doing their absolute best to build a good business is in my
opinion at least, immensely sad and nothing more than playground bullying. 

I have many customers who have purchased multiple from me and several have
become genuine friends, it is that aspect of this community which I love,
sadly there is a Janus Face to this community.

John Higgins is angry with me for selling pieces of the Tindouf, Algerian
Lunar and calling them 'paired NWA 10265' - which is his classification for
this material. There is zero debate my material is the Algerian Lunar but I
simply used one of the many many classification numbers associated with it.
Hands up, I should have just called it Tindouf, Algerian Lunar,  but it is
utterly wrong to suggest this was an attempt to defraud anyone. Claiming a
specific classification of the same material is more 'special' than all the
generic Tindouf material it all represents, is a far greater
misrepresentation in my opinion.

I am neither part of an evil conspiracy to keep BB off the market or a bad
player, I just am trying to make a living and build a long term client business 
in a field I love.
__

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Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
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[meteorite-list] Awesome Shock Melted (NWA 6963) Martian Specimens

[Ruben Garcia via Meteorite-list]

Hi all,

I purchased quite a few NWA 6963 Martian Specimens in Tucson -
February 2018. After slicing and selling many of the individuals I
came to the last one, a 40 gram specimen.  As I began to take slices
off I started seeing inclusions that looked as if they swirled around
the interior of the meteorite in a fluid motion. In reality the slices
looked more like a loaf of marble rye bread than any Mars specimen I'd
seen previously. After contacting two well known meteorite scientists
and asking if what I was seeing was a weathering pattern they both
informed me that it looked like shock melt. The slices listed on ebay
have NOT been polished as sometimes a polished surface takes away the
sharp contrast in the two lithologies.

Worth a look even if you're not looking to buy!
https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=mr-meteorite=323140487648&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xshock+melted+nwa+6963.TRS0&_nkw=shock+melted+nwa+6963&_sacat=0

-- 



Rock On!

Ruben Garcia

www.RubenMrMeteoriteGarcia.com
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[meteorite-list] 回覆︰ Hot on the trail of Antarctic meteorites

[Wah via Meteorite-list]

There will be an Antarctic Total Solar Eclipse in 2021.Is it possible to do 
both things in one trip: watching the TSE and hunting for meteorites ? 
Best Regards, 
Wah! 

Tommy via Meteorite-list  於 
2018年03月13日 (週二) 2:29 AM 寫道﹕
 

 https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/hot-trail-antarctic-meteorites

Regards!

Tom

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Re: [meteorite-list] Questions About NWA 7034,

[nourddine azelmat via Meteorite-list]

Dear John/Adam/List,

I am greatly saddened to be dragged into what I can only assume is
'politically' motivated debate.
For my part, I have never heard of this 3KG of Black Beauty, and it is
frankly farcical to suggest I am part of a conspiracy to keep this off
market.
The linking of my few grams, as evidence of a secret cache of Black Beauty
is at best delusional.

I have been dealing in meteorites for a number of years and recently on ebay
where my feedback is 99 percent positive (only negative was someone wanted a
certificate of authenticity that was never mentioned in the listing).

My 3g (please note not KG) of BB came from hunters I have known for years
and I trust absolutely. The material was found in November 2017 in the Sbita
area " known strewn field of black beauty" and the balance of the parcel was
sold to a dealer in Belgium.

As with the majority of non NWA XXX meteorites I sell, a fragment of my
material was recently sent to the LFP lab in Germany for analysis (not
classification) and should it prove to be anything other than BB, I would
give a full refund. Frankly, given my knowledge and trust of the hunters,
the probability that they have defrauded me is zero.

This list has seen the drama of bad US dealers, bad Moroccan dealers, family
rifts and petty squabbles played out ad-nauseum. However, its use to damage
people who are doing their absolute best to build a good business is in my
opinion at least, immensely sad and nothing more than playground bullying.

I have many customers who have purchased multiple from me and several have
become genuine friends, it is that aspect of this community which I love,
sadly there is a Janus Face to this community.

John Higgins is angry with me for selling pieces of the Tindouf, Algerian
Lunar and calling them 'paired NWA 10265' - which is his classification for
this material. There is zero debate my material is the Algerian Lunar but I
simply used one of the many many classification numbers associated with it.
Hands up, I should have just called it Tindouf, Algerian Lunar,  but it is
utterly wrong to suggest this was an attempt to defraud anyone. Claiming a
specific classification of the same material is more 'special' than all the
generic Tindouf material it all represents, is a far greater
misrepresentation in my opinion.

I am neither part of an evil conspiracy to keep BB off the market or a bad
player, I just am trying to make a living and build a long term client business 
in a field I love.

__

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Re: [meteorite-list] Questions About NWA 7034, "Black Beauty" Pairing

[Carl Esparza via Meteorite-list]

Nourddine, list, I agree with you. Thank you for your wisdom.  I too have been 
needlessly dragged through the coals on this list. It has been proven off-list 
that the bad mouthing I was given was totally misguided but, It matters not. 
The truth is , these actors have caused great harm to this list and some of 
it's members. People need to think before they post. I have never had a bad 
experience with any Moroccan. Only a few crack head Americans. 
Carl Esparza
--
Love & Life

 nourddine azelmat via Meteorite-list  
wrote: 
> 
> Dear John/Adam/List,
> 
> I am greatly saddened to be dragged into what I can only assume is
> 'politically' motivated debate. 
> For my part, I have never heard of this 3KG of Black Beauty, and it is
> frankly farcical to suggest I am part of a conspiracy to keep this off
> market.
> The linking of my few grams, as evidence of a secret cache of Black Beauty
> is at best delusional.
> 
> I have been dealing in meteorites for a number of years and recently on ebay
> where my feedback is 99 percent positive (only negative was someone wanted a
> certificate of authenticity that was never mentioned in the listing).
> 
> My 3g (please note not KG) of BB came from hunters I have known for years
> and I trust absolutely. The material was found in November 2017 in the Sbita
> area " known strewn field of black beauty" and the balance of the parcel was
> sold to a dealer in Belgium. 
> 
> As with the majority of non NWA XXX meteorites I sell, a fragment of my
> material was recently sent to the LFP lab in Germany for analysis (not
> classification) and should it prove to be anything other than BB, I would
> give a full refund. Frankly, given my knowledge and trust of the hunters,
> the probability that they have defrauded me is zero.
> 
> This list has seen the drama of bad US dealers, bad Moroccan dealers, family
> rifts and petty squabbles played out ad-nauseum. However, its use to damage
> people who are doing their absolute best to build a good business is in my
> opinion at least, immensely sad and nothing more than playground bullying. 
> 
> I have many customers who have purchased multiple from me and several have
> become genuine friends, it is that aspect of this community which I love,
> sadly there is a Janus Face to this community.
> 
> John Higgins is angry with me for selling pieces of the Tindouf, Algerian
> Lunar and calling them 'paired NWA 10265' - which is his classification for
> this material. There is zero debate my material is the Algerian Lunar but I
> simply used one of the many many classification numbers associated with it.
> Hands up, I should have just called it Tindouf, Algerian Lunar,  but it is
> utterly wrong to suggest this was an attempt to defraud anyone. Claiming a
> specific classification of the same material is more 'special' than all the
> generic Tindouf material it all represents, is a far greater
> misrepresentation in my opinion.
> 
> I am neither part of an evil conspiracy to keep BB off the market or a bad
> player, I just am trying to make a living and build a long term client 
> business in a field I love.
> __
> 
> Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the 
> Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

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Re: [meteorite-list] Linton Rohr R.I.P. -- LINTON ROHR 7/8/56 – 5/8/16

[Carl Esparza via Meteorite-list]

RIP Linton. Always enjoyed your company at the Tucson gem Show. 
--
Love & Life

 drtanuki via Meteorite-list  wrote: 
> Dear List,
>   I have only learned that we have lost one of our active METLIST early 
> members.
> Rest in Peace Linton. My condolences to his wife Karen.
> http://www.insiderutah.com/2016/05/25/linton-rohr-7856-5816/ 
> Dirk Ross...Tokyo 
> __
> 
> Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the 
> Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

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Re: [meteorite-list] Questions About NWA 7034, "Black Beauty" Pairing

[Roger via Meteorite-list]

I cannot better articulate what has been said by Dr Shea in his two earlier
responses on this topic. 
It is not my nature to respond to such debates, but I do not feel justice is
being served here.

Repeating what John S said,  I do not pretend to have the details of what
happened with John Higgins (for whom I have great respect)

I have been buying from Morocco for many years and while I have been of the
receiving end of a (very) few bad people, I have dealt with Mr Nourddine
many times (15-20) and found him to be completely reliable (as the vast vast
majority of dealers). 

Several of his stones (that warranted it) I had analysed at UOW - as is my
standard practice, and am yet to find fault. 
In fact, it was Mr Nourddine who pointed out that a suspected carbonaceous
that I had bought from him turned out to be an bizarre OC (upon his analysis
in Germany) and gave me a full refund, without my asking. 

In my experience at least, this man is absolutely not a 'bad actor'



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[meteorite-list] Linton Rohr R.I.P. -- LINTON ROHR 7/8/56 – 5/8/16

[drtanuki via Meteorite-list]

Dear List,
  I have only learned that we have lost one of our active METLIST early members.
Rest in Peace Linton. My condolences to his wife Karen.
http://www.insiderutah.com/2016/05/25/linton-rohr-7856-5816/ 
Dirk Ross...Tokyo 
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[meteorite-list] Questions About NWA 7034, "Black Beauty" Pairing

[nourddine azelmat via Meteorite-list]

Dear John/Adam/List,

I am greatly saddened to be dragged into what I can only assume is
'politically' motivated debate. 
For my part, I have never heard of this 3KG of Black Beauty, and it is
frankly farcical to suggest I am part of a conspiracy to keep this off
market.
The linking of my few grams, as evidence of a secret cache of Black Beauty
is at best delusional.

I have been dealing in meteorites for a number of years and recently on ebay
where my feedback is 99 percent positive (only negative was someone wanted a
certificate of authenticity that was never mentioned in the listing).

My 3g (please note not KG) of BB came from hunters I have known for years
and I trust absolutely. The material was found in November 2017 in the Sbita
area " known strewn field of black beauty" and the balance of the parcel was
sold to a dealer in Belgium. 

As with the majority of non NWA XXX meteorites I sell, a fragment of my
material was recently sent to the LFP lab in Germany for analysis (not
classification) and should it prove to be anything other than BB, I would
give a full refund. Frankly, given my knowledge and trust of the hunters,
the probability that they have defrauded me is zero.

This list has seen the drama of bad US dealers, bad Moroccan dealers, family
rifts and petty squabbles played out ad-nauseum. However, its use to damage
people who are doing their absolute best to build a good business is in my
opinion at least, immensely sad and nothing more than playground bullying. 

I have many customers who have purchased multiple from me and several have
become genuine friends, it is that aspect of this community which I love,
sadly there is a Janus Face to this community.

John Higgins is angry with me for selling pieces of the Tindouf, Algerian
Lunar and calling them 'paired NWA 10265' - which is his classification for
this material. There is zero debate my material is the Algerian Lunar but I
simply used one of the many many classification numbers associated with it.
Hands up, I should have just called it Tindouf, Algerian Lunar,  but it is
utterly wrong to suggest this was an attempt to defraud anyone. Claiming a
specific classification of the same material is more 'special' than all the
generic Tindouf material it all represents, is a far greater
misrepresentation in my opinion.

I am neither part of an evil conspiracy to keep BB off the market or a bad
player, I just am trying to make a living and build a long term client business 
in a field I love.
__

Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the 
Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
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Re: [meteorite-list] Questions About NWA 7034,

[nourddine azelmat via Meteorite-list]

Dear John/Adam/List,

I am greatly saddened to be dragged into what I can only assume is
'politically' motivated debate. 
For my part, I have never heard of this 3KG of Black Beauty, and it is
frankly farcical to suggest I am part of a conspiracy to keep this off
market.
The linking of my few grams, as evidence of a secret cache of Black Beauty
is at best delusional.

I have been dealing in meteorites for a number of years and recently on ebay
where my feedback is 99 percent positive (only negative was someone wanted a
certificate of authenticity that was never mentioned in the listing).

My 3g (please note not KG) of BB came from hunters I have known for years
and I trust absolutely. The material was found in November 2017 in the Sbita
area " known strewn field of black beauty" and the balance of the parcel was
sold to a dealer in Belgium. 

As with the majority of non NWA XXX meteorites I sell, a fragment of my
material was recently sent to the LFP lab in Germany for analysis (not
classification) and should it prove to be anything other than BB, I would
give a full refund. Frankly, given my knowledge and trust of the hunters,
the probability that they have defrauded me is zero.

This list has seen the drama of bad US dealers, bad Moroccan dealers, family
rifts and petty squabbles played out ad-nauseum. However, its use to damage
people who are doing their absolute best to build a good business is in my
opinion at least, immensely sad and nothing more than playground bullying. 

I have many customers who have purchased multiple from me and several have
become genuine friends, it is that aspect of this community which I love,
sadly there is a Janus Face to this community.

John Higgins is angry with me for selling pieces of the Tindouf, Algerian
Lunar and calling them 'paired NWA 10265' - which is his classification for
this material. There is zero debate my material is the Algerian Lunar but I
simply used one of the many many classification numbers associated with it.
Hands up, I should have just called it Tindouf, Algerian Lunar,  but it is
utterly wrong to suggest this was an attempt to defraud anyone. Claiming a
specific classification of the same material is more 'special' than all the
generic Tindouf material it all represents, is a far greater
misrepresentation in my opinion.

I am neither part of an evil conspiracy to keep BB off the market or a bad
player, I just am trying to make a living and build a long term client business 
in a field I love.

nourddine A
__

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Re: [meteorite-list] Questions About NWA 7034,

[nourddine azelmat via Meteorite-list]

Dear John/Adam/List,

I am greatly saddened to be dragged into what I can only assume is
'politically' motivated debate. 
For my part, I have never heard of this 3KG of Black Beauty, and it is
frankly farcical to suggest I am part of a conspiracy to keep this off
market.
The linking of my few grams, as evidence of a secret cache of Black Beauty
is at best delusional.

I have been dealing in meteorites for a number of years and recently on ebay
where my feedback is 99 percent positive (only negative was someone wanted a
certificate of authenticity that was never mentioned in the listing).

My 3g (please note not KG) of BB came from hunters I have known for years
and I trust absolutely. The material was found in November 2017 in the Sbita
area " known strewn field of black beauty" and the balance of the parcel was
sold to a dealer in Belgium. 

As with the majority of non NWA XXX meteorites I sell, a fragment of my
material was recently sent to the LFP lab in Germany for analysis (not
classification) and should it prove to be anything other than BB, I would
give a full refund. Frankly, given my knowledge and trust of the hunters,
the probability that they have defrauded me is zero.

This list has seen the drama of bad US dealers, bad Moroccan dealers, family
rifts and petty squabbles played out ad-nauseum. However, its use to damage
people who are doing their absolute best to build a good business is in my
opinion at least, immensely sad and nothing more than playground bullying. 

I have many customers who have purchased multiple from me and several have
become genuine friends, it is that aspect of this community which I love,
sadly there is a Janus Face to this community.

John Higgins is angry with me for selling pieces of the Tindouf, Algerian
Lunar and calling them 'paired NWA 10265' - which is his classification for
this material. There is zero debate my material is the Algerian Lunar but I
simply used one of the many many classification numbers associated with it.
Hands up, I should have just called it Tindouf, Algerian Lunar,  but it is
utterly wrong to suggest this was an attempt to defraud anyone. Claiming a
specific classification of the same material is more 'special' than all the
generic Tindouf material it all represents, is a far greater
misrepresentation in my opinion.

I am neither part of an evil conspiracy to keep BB off the market or a bad
player, I just am trying to make a living and build a long term client business 
in a field I love.

nourddine A



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Re: [meteorite-list] Questions About NWA 7034, "Black Beauty" Pairing

[Bigjohn Shea via Meteorite-list]

Quite the Witch hunt “brewing” here...

I won’t pretend to have all the information about everyone’s issues with this 
seller, but if there’s a legit gripe between two IMCA members concerning 
something as sincere as fraud, then the metlist is certainly not the place to 
deal with it.

Cheers,
John A. Shea, MD
IMCA 3295




Sent using the mail.com mail app

On 3/13/18 at 9:45 AM, Gary Fujihara via Meteorite-list wrote:

> I would like to know how this person got to be an IMCA member, and more 
> importantly how and why he still remains one after all these incidences of 
> misrepresentation and fraud have occurred?
> 
> Sent from Gary's iPhone
> 
> > On Mar 13, 2018, at 3:08 AM, John higgins via Meteorite-list 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Last time I checked the wholesale price of Black Beauty has always stayed 
> > above $1000 per gram, any rumors of a stone being sold as Black Beauty for 
> > $100 is likely a fake, just a fantasy.
> > 
> > And I have proven in the past that this seller in question is self pairing 
> > and making illegimitate claims. Read my facebook posts, all the facts of my 
> > experience with him cheating me are there, he should not be given any 
> > credit. This is a big fleece taking place here. You are a sucker for 
> > supporting and entertaining this.
> > 
> > Martians especially Black Beauty likely pairings should always be verified. 
> > Labs do have the time and manpower for planetary meteorites and yes it's up 
> > to you especially as the seller to verify. If you do not verify by lab, and 
> > your intent is to sell, you are destroying the integrity of the market 
> > place and looking to make a quick buck off another's hard work. There is a 
> > unspoken code here that forbids this illegitimate practice. The new 
> > generation of collectors are educated and they disdain any seller 
> > participating in any such sales. No more excuses.
> > 
> > John Higgins
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Monday, March 12, 2018, 11:40:03 AM EDT, Bigjohn Shea via Meteorite-list 
> >  wrote: 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I have bought from the seller in question numerous times. He is very 
> > reliable, after at least a dozen transactions...
> > 
> > As to whether or not people are willing to buy specimens that cost as much 
> > as Black Beauty under the advertisement of a probable pairing, it is 
> > entirely up to the buyer.
> > 
> > This is a topic that has been discussed to death. Probable pairings are 
> > simply that, “probable” based on the knowledge of the seller, and the 
> > extent to which the buyer trusts them. Labs have neither the time nor the 
> > manpower to verify every specimen of every meteorite that gets sold. As a 
> > result, the trust between buyer and seller is what is most important when 
> > buying probable pairings.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > John A. Shea, MD
> > IMCA 3295
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Sent using the mail.com mail app
> > 
> >> On 3/12/18 at 10:08 AM, Carl Esparza via Meteorite-list wrote:
> >> 
> >> List, Interesting Ebay  listing. The seller shows an IMCA number 5743 and 
> >> guarantees authenticity with a certificate. Is that OK with the IMCA if a 
> >> lab has not certified it? 
> >> Carl
> >> --
> >> Love & Life
> >> 
> >>  Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list  
> >> wrote: 
> >>> It looks like the Moroccans are letting out a little bit at time of this 
> >> one.  Let a small amount out, find out what it is and what it goes for 
> >> on the market, and then slowly release all of the pairings.  The only 
> >> exception is if multiple parties in Morocco get a hold of the same 
> >> material, at the same time; Then it is dumped as quickly as possible as 
> >> is the case with the new "lunar" with similar looking terrestrial 
> >> breccia mixed in for extra profit.  There is no crust so few collectors, 
> >> and some dealers for that matter, can't tell the difference.
> >> 
> >> A List member was kind enough to point out one example of many untested 
> >> fragments of "Black Beauty" being offered on eBay directly from Morocco. 
> >>   He claims he was offered the 3 Kilo piece over a year ago but they 
> >> refused to break it down into more affordable pieces at $100.00/gram. 
> >> They are content selling smaller untested pieces for 10 times this amount.
> >> 
> >> Rarest Old Basaltic Breccia Martian meteorite 0.31g 
> >> http://r.ebay.com/ZgE79Q
> >> 
> >> I refuse to play games with them.  If a few dealers want to buy two 
> >> thirds of the big stone, I would be interested in the other third.
> >> 
> >> Adam
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> On 3/9/2018 3:53 PM, Graham Ensor wrote:
> >>> I was told it is mythical.
> >>> 
> >>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 6:06 PM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
> >>>  >>> > wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Does anybody know the disposition of the 3 kilogram plus 

Re: [meteorite-list] Questions About NWA 7034, "Black Beauty" Pairing

[Gary Fujihara via Meteorite-list]

I would like to know how this person got to be an IMCA member, and more 
importantly how and why he still remains one after all these incidences of 
misrepresentation and fraud have occurred?

Sent from Gary's iPhone

> On Mar 13, 2018, at 3:08 AM, John higgins via Meteorite-list 
>  wrote:
> 
> Last time I checked the wholesale price of Black Beauty has always stayed 
> above $1000 per gram, any rumors of a stone being sold as Black Beauty for 
> $100 is likely a fake, just a fantasy.
> 
> And I have proven in the past that this seller in question is self pairing 
> and making illegimitate claims. Read my facebook posts, all the facts of my 
> experience with him cheating me are there, he should not be given any credit. 
> This is a big fleece taking place here. You are a sucker for supporting and 
> entertaining this.
> 
> Martians especially Black Beauty likely pairings should always be verified. 
> Labs do have the time and manpower for planetary meteorites and yes it's up 
> to you especially as the seller to verify. If you do not verify by lab, and 
> your intent is to sell, you are destroying the integrity of the market place 
> and looking to make a quick buck off another's hard work. There is a unspoken 
> code here that forbids this illegitimate practice. The new generation of 
> collectors are educated and they disdain any seller participating in any such 
> sales. No more excuses.
> 
> John Higgins
> 
> 
> 
> On Monday, March 12, 2018, 11:40:03 AM EDT, Bigjohn Shea via Meteorite-list 
>  wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have bought from the seller in question numerous times. He is very 
> reliable, after at least a dozen transactions...
> 
> As to whether or not people are willing to buy specimens that cost as much as 
> Black Beauty under the advertisement of a probable pairing, it is entirely up 
> to the buyer.
> 
> This is a topic that has been discussed to death. Probable pairings are 
> simply that, “probable” based on the knowledge of the seller, and the extent 
> to which the buyer trusts them. Labs have neither the time nor the manpower 
> to verify every specimen of every meteorite that gets sold. As a result, the 
> trust between buyer and seller is what is most important when buying probable 
> pairings.
> 
> Cheers,
> John A. Shea, MD
> IMCA 3295
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent using the mail.com mail app
> 
>> On 3/12/18 at 10:08 AM, Carl Esparza via Meteorite-list wrote:
>> 
>> List, Interesting Ebay  listing. The seller shows an IMCA number 5743 and 
>> guarantees authenticity with a certificate. Is that OK with the IMCA if a 
>> lab has not certified it? 
>> Carl
>> --
>> Love & Life
>> 
>>  Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list  
>> wrote: 
>>> It looks like the Moroccans are letting out a little bit at time of this 
>> one.  Let a small amount out, find out what it is and what it goes for 
>> on the market, and then slowly release all of the pairings.  The only 
>> exception is if multiple parties in Morocco get a hold of the same 
>> material, at the same time; Then it is dumped as quickly as possible as 
>> is the case with the new "lunar" with similar looking terrestrial 
>> breccia mixed in for extra profit.  There is no crust so few collectors, 
>> and some dealers for that matter, can't tell the difference.
>> 
>> A List member was kind enough to point out one example of many untested 
>> fragments of "Black Beauty" being offered on eBay directly from Morocco. 
>>   He claims he was offered the 3 Kilo piece over a year ago but they 
>> refused to break it down into more affordable pieces at $100.00/gram. 
>> They are content selling smaller untested pieces for 10 times this amount.
>> 
>> Rarest Old Basaltic Breccia Martian meteorite 0.31g http://r.ebay.com/ZgE79Q
>> 
>> I refuse to play games with them.  If a few dealers want to buy two 
>> thirds of the big stone, I would be interested in the other third.
>> 
>> Adam
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 3/9/2018 3:53 PM, Graham Ensor wrote:
>>> I was told it is mythical.
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 6:06 PM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Does anybody know the disposition of the 3 kilogram plus pairing to
>>> NWA 7034, the Basaltic Martian Breccia sometimes referred to as
>>> "Black Beauty?"  Has it been been cut yet?  Has a laboratory
>>> analyzed it or is it just another self-paired stone? $300,000.00 or
>>> $100.00/gram for the entire stone is a bit much but I would be
>>> interested in a kilogram at this price if it has been confirmed in a
>>> laboratory and is available.
>>> 
>>> I was hoping it would have shown up cut in Tucson but I did not hear
>>> anything more about it so canceled any thoughts of going to the show
>>> last month.
>>> 
>>> Any info would be greatly appreciated,
>>> 

Re: [meteorite-list] Questions About NWA 7034, "Black Beauty" Pairing

[John higgins via Meteorite-list]

Last time I checked the wholesale price of Black Beauty has always stayed above 
$1000 per gram, any rumors of a stone being sold as Black Beauty for $100 is 
likely a fake, just a fantasy.

And I have proven in the past that this seller in question is self pairing and 
making illegimitate claims. Read my facebook posts, all the facts of my 
experience with him cheating me are there, he should not be given any credit. 
This is a big fleece taking place here. You are a sucker for supporting and 
entertaining this.

Martians especially Black Beauty likely pairings should always be verified. 
Labs do have the time and manpower for planetary meteorites and yes it's up to 
you especially as the seller to verify. If you do not verify by lab, and your 
intent is to sell, you are destroying the integrity of the market place and 
looking to make a quick buck off another's hard work. There is a unspoken code 
here that forbids this illegitimate practice. The new generation of collectors 
are educated and they disdain any seller participating in any such sales. No 
more excuses.

John Higgins



On Monday, March 12, 2018, 11:40:03 AM EDT, Bigjohn Shea via Meteorite-list 
 wrote: 





I have bought from the seller in question numerous times. He is very reliable, 
after at least a dozen transactions...

As to whether or not people are willing to buy specimens that cost as much as 
Black Beauty under the advertisement of a probable pairing, it is entirely up 
to the buyer.

This is a topic that has been discussed to death. Probable pairings are simply 
that, “probable” based on the knowledge of the seller, and the extent to which 
the buyer trusts them. Labs have neither the time nor the manpower to verify 
every specimen of every meteorite that gets sold. As a result, the trust 
between buyer and seller is what is most important when buying probable 
pairings.

Cheers,
John A. Shea, MD
IMCA 3295





Sent using the mail.com mail app

On 3/12/18 at 10:08 AM, Carl Esparza via Meteorite-list wrote:

> List, Interesting Ebay  listing. The seller shows an IMCA number 5743 and 
> guarantees authenticity with a certificate. Is that OK with the IMCA if a lab 
> has not certified it? 
> Carl
> --
> Love & Life
> 
>  Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list  
> wrote: 
> > It looks like the Moroccans are letting out a little bit at time of this 
> one.  Let a small amount out, find out what it is and what it goes for 
> on the market, and then slowly release all of the pairings.  The only 
> exception is if multiple parties in Morocco get a hold of the same 
> material, at the same time; Then it is dumped as quickly as possible as 
> is the case with the new "lunar" with similar looking terrestrial 
> breccia mixed in for extra profit.  There is no crust so few collectors, 
> and some dealers for that matter, can't tell the difference.
> 
> A List member was kind enough to point out one example of many untested 
> fragments of "Black Beauty" being offered on eBay directly from Morocco. 
>  He claims he was offered the 3 Kilo piece over a year ago but they 
> refused to break it down into more affordable pieces at $100.00/gram. 
> They are content selling smaller untested pieces for 10 times this amount.
> 
> Rarest Old Basaltic Breccia Martian meteorite 0.31g http://r.ebay.com/ZgE79Q
> 
> I refuse to play games with them.  If a few dealers want to buy two 
> thirds of the big stone, I would be interested in the other third.
> 
> Adam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/9/2018 3:53 PM, Graham Ensor wrote:
> > I was told it is mythical.
> > 
> > On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 6:06 PM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list 
> >  > > wrote:
> > 
> >    Does anybody know the disposition of the 3 kilogram plus pairing to
> >    NWA 7034, the Basaltic Martian Breccia sometimes referred to as
> >    "Black Beauty?"  Has it been been cut yet?  Has a laboratory
> >    analyzed it or is it just another self-paired stone? $300,000.00 or
> >    $100.00/gram for the entire stone is a bit much but I would be
> >    interested in a kilogram at this price if it has been confirmed in a
> >    laboratory and is available.
> > 
> >    I was hoping it would have shown up cut in Tucson but I did not hear
> >    anything more about it so canceled any thoughts of going to the show
> >    last month.
> > 
> >    Any info would be greatly appreciated,
> > 
> >    Adam
> >    __
> > 
> >    Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral
> >     and the Archives at
> >    http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
> >    
> >    Meteorite-list mailing list
> >    Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> >    
> >    

[meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day

[Paul Swartz via Meteorite-list]

Today's Meteorite Picture of the Day: Chinga

Contributed by: Matthias Baermann

http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpodmain.asp?DD=03/13/2018
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