Re: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite
Looks to me like Chromium. The link is to a picture of a piece of chromium I have here. http://www.nepra.com/cr.JPG Drake "A rock pile ceases to be a pile of rocks, the moment one contemplates it and envisions a cathedral." Drake "Doc" Dameräu L3CC Member http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/ www.rocketmaterials.org www.endlessmountaincandle.com www.nepra.com - Original Message - From: "David & Kitt Deyarmin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 6:30 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this a meteorite A friend of mine who lives in Germany was given this and was told it was a meteorite. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Markus.jpg I told him I didn't recognize it as a meteorite bit I figured I would post here just to be sure. Does anyone know what this is? Thanks __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Since Scale Cubes are a topic today
- Original Message - From: "Sterling K. Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mike Bandli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'Delbert Waterbury'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Since Scale Cubes are a topic today Hi, All I hate to sound a sour note, but these "artifacts" are for SCALE, not measurement. I think it's wonderful that folks make them accurate to +/- 0.001 inch or millimeter, out of materials with low coefficients of expansion, and so forth, but that is purely an exercise in personal perfectionism. Actualy, I made them to +/- 0.00015 ;-) But your are right, scale is not a NIST traceable measurement. It's more of a concept. But still... you can't be too accurate. :-) Drake "A rock pile ceases to be a pile of rocks, the moment one contemplates it and envisions a cathedral." Drake "Doc" Dameräu L3CC Member www.nepra.com www.rocketmaterials.org http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Scalecube Family
I thought they were all cm cubes as well, until I got several emails asking me to produce inch cubes. One guy even sent me pictures of several NASA inch cubes.Some pictures of cubes had marks on the "T" and "B". That guy bought one of my inch cubes, and after receiving it, ordered 12 custom made cubes with "tick marks" on ALL letters! What I don't understand is why some of them have tick marks on all the letters. Why would one need a mark showing the bottom of the "W"? ...And the T and B??? Mike, can you enlighten me on this one? Drake "A rock pile ceases to be a pile of rocks, the moment one contemplates it and envisions a cathedral." Drake "Doc" Dameräu L3CC Member www.nepra.com www.rocketmaterials.org http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/ - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 2:03 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Scalecube Family On November 7, 2007 Mike wrote: From left to right: Buhl 1cm Cube, Unknown 1cm Cube, NASA 'Scale Block' 1 inch Cube, Drake 1 inch Certified Cube, Drake 1cm Cube, Drake 1cm prototype.< Dear Mike, when or where did NASA use a 1 inch cube? I am quite sure all their meteorite documentation use the metric sytem with 1 cm cubes. Just curious. Svend www.niger-meteorite-recon.de __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- www.niger-meteorite-recon.de __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] [AD] 1 inch Scale Cubes Now Available
List, I have finally finished the one inch scale cubes. There are a limited number of two types available; a "Standard Version" and a "Precision Version". The 1 inch standard version cubes are 6061 T6 aluminum, the letters are cold formed into the cubes, and are Type II, Class 2 anodized black per the military specification: MIL-A-8625F. The letters are filled with baked enamel. These cubes are high quality and perfect for visual standards. The Certified Version scale cubes are the same as the standard version, except that they come with a material certification from Alcoa (Aluminum Mill) and dimensional certification form the metrology laboratory and can be used for calibration. The dimensional certification includes measurements using a Pratt & Whitney Supper Mic., and a J&L optical comparator. (A picture of a cube on these instruments is in the paperwork provided.) Also, there are a number of 1 cm Standard scale cubes left. Pricing and availability: Standard 1" cubes - $58.50 USD + $6.50 S&H - 12 available Precision 1" cubes - $82.50 USD + $6.50 S&H - Only 4 available Standard 1cm cubes - $25.00 USD + $6.50 S&H ~18 left All cubes come in a protective plastic container and a paper on ways to get the most out of a cube. Certified cubes also come with serialized certification papers. Email me for pictures if you wish. I accept PayPal, checks and money orders. Drake "A rock pile ceases to be a pile of rocks, the moment one contemplates it and envisions a cathedral." Drake "Doc" Dameräu L3CC Member www.nepra.com www.rocketmaterials.org http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] In memory of Jim Kriegh
I never knew Mr. Kriegh. I'm discovering that I wish I did. Anyone that can have so many nice things said about him must be an incredible person. The saddest thing is that most people don't say these things before they pass. Tell people how much they mean to you before it's too late. I hope I can live up to the standards in life that will generate this level of appreciation when I'm gone. God Speed Jim Kriegh. Drake "Doc" Dameräu L3CC Member www.nepra.com www.rocketmaterials.org http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 1cm scale cube available
Holding out for a scale cubit... That could be cumbersome to use, especially in the field. Perhaps, but it would be nice to find a meteorite that was big enough to NEED a scale cubit! :-) Drake Drake "Doc" Dameräu L3CC Member www.nepra.com www.rocketmaterials.org http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 1cm scale cube available
Thank you, everyone for all the positive comments and emails. This project has been quite an experience. I have sent cubes to 6 countries! So far, I have one one dissatisfied customer. (A fossil collector) They thought that the cubes were 1 inch rather than 1cm. I am in the middle of making 1" cubes, but they will cost significantly more. The precession ground blocks I am using cost me over $40 each. (Pray for no scrap!) Thanks again to all who supported me on this! Drake Drake "Doc" Dameräu L3CC Member www.nepra.com www.rocketmaterials.org http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/ - Original Message - From: "Mal Bishop" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 8:16 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 1cm scale cube available Yes, I just wanted to chime in to agree with Tom, Drake's cm scale cube is a beauty in its own right. A very nice visual aid for your photos, indeed! Like Tom also mentioned, the documentation that came along with the cube is definitely a very nice added bonus -- top notch and professional. Very well done, Drake -- Thanks! Mal At 09:43 PM 8/30/2007 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 8/25/2007 3:34:33 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The cubes I promised a month ago came back from the anodizer on Thursday. The letters are being filled with enamel today. They will be ready for shipping on Monday. I'll email pictures to those that are interested. I got my Drake Centimeter Scale Cube today! I know it's only a cm cube but it is a work of art. The best scale cube made. Drake even included a write up on it's correct usage. I don't know how many he has made. I think he still has some available. Thanks Drake! Tom ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD Final Post - Drake Scale Cubes
I know everyone is sick of posts about scale cubes, so this will be my last ever post on it. Here is a link to a picture of the cubes: http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/Cubes.jpg The picture contains 3 images: Two cubes, one view is top, one view is bottom. A cube showing the cold formed letters. And a cube next to it's storage container. There is a dot next to the "N" indicating the bottom of the cube. The font for the "S" is smaller at the top and is bottom heavy to indicate the correct orientation. The cubes are made of 6061T6 aluminum and are Type II anodized black. The letters are filled with baked enamel. They are $25.00 each, + $6.50 for priority shipping with tracking. Insurance is optional. I take cash, checks, MO's and PayPal (preferred). PayPal is sent to this email address. Regards, Drake Drake "Doc" Dameräu L3CC Member www.nepra.com www.rocketmaterials.org http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 1cm scale cube available
There is another option. The cubes I promised a month ago came back from the anodizer on Thursday. The letters are being filled with enamel today. They will be ready for shipping on Monday. I'll email pictures to those that are interested. For those that missed the posts, they are 6061 T6 aluminum, the letters are cold formed into the cubes, and anodized. Each cube comes with a protective case. They are $25.00 + shipping etc. Here's some bad news. If you are one of the people that reserved one, I will need your information again. My HDD crashed and I lost all that info. Here's the worst news: I'm using Vista now. :-( Drake Drake "Doc" Dameräu L3CC Member www.nepra.com www.rocketmaterials.org http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/ - Original Message - From: "Stefan Brandes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 4:30 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 1cm scale cube available Hi Joe, you´r kidding, aren´t you? 25$ each How about those: http://cgi.ebay.com/10-Neodymium-Magnets-10mm-Cube-N48-Rare-Earth_W0QQitemZ160148882480 Stefan Hello everyone, I have been looking all over for a 1cm scale cube. I can't find any anywhere, only cheap plastic or rubber ones. I had some 1cm black Nickel coated Neodymium magnets made into 1cm scale cubes for meteorite photos. I have some available now if you are interested. If you are interested here is a link: http://illinoismeteorites.com/1cm_scale_cubes.htm Best Wishes, Joe Kerchner http://illinoismeteorites.com/yabb/YaBB.pl __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] [AD] Centemeter Cubes
I apologize in advance if this post is inappropriate. A short time ago I announce I was making high quality centimeter cubes. I'm still waiting on the anodizing. However, I have made available a few "prototypes" on eBay. This will help defray the cost of the anodizing tooling costs. Those that sent me a not reserving an anodized cube still have first dibs on the final product. Regards, Drake Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes Drake "Doc" Dameräu NAR Section 614 L3CC member TRA 9934 L3 www.nepra.com www.rocketmaterials.org http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/home.htm __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Centimeter cubes
I too really enjoyed reading the cube history. Now I feel bad for calling the one I got a toy. It is exactly as described in the article. After I read it, I feel more like I have a piece of history! To all the posts and emails ... I bought 18 feet of 1 cm Al rod because I wanted more than enough for scrap as I figured out how to make them. I don't know what to charge for them. My letter dies-sets and other tooling costs are getting pretty high, so I can't charge what I have into them. (This wont be a money maker!) Reading the article, I too had a problem figuring out how to properly anodize them. I don't want any un-anodized areas at all. My first attempt will be to drill a 0.030" hole where one of the "tick marks" show the bottom side. This will be used to attach the cube to the anode. The first run will be just a few to see how it works. I'm also working on three 1" cubes, just for fun. Drake Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes Drake "Doc" Dameräu NAR Section 614 L3CC member TRA 9934 L3 www.nepra.com www.rocketmaterials.org http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/home.htm > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tett > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 9:13 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Centimeter cubes > > > Thanks Svend! > > I really enjoyed reading the history. My new cube has the T > with 1CM below > it. Is this your latest version? > > When will you have more for sale? > > Cheers, > > Mike > > - Original Message - > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 9:33 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Centimeter cubes > > > > Tett and list, > > > > you may find most of your questions on the origin of scalecubes > > answered > > here: > > > > http://www.niger-meteorite-recon.de/en/meteorite-scalecube.htm > > > > best regards > > > > Svend > > > > --- > > Hey List! > > > > Just got a nice centimeter measuring cube from Anne Black. I am > > looking forward to photographing my collection with this > beside each > > piece. > > > > Do these things have a name? I have been searching the net > and can't > > find any of these gauges anywhere. I know Anne could have > sold many > > more of these if she had more. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Mike Tettenborn > > > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > -- > > www.niger-meteorite-recon.de > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Centimeter cubes
I looked for months and never found an official name. I had much frustration in finding them. When I did, it turned out to be a plastic toy cube painted black with stickers on it. Needless to say, I was disappointed. So, I decided to have a bunch of good ones made. (Enough for everyone.) They are made of cold formed 6061T6 aluminum, with the letters formed into the sides. They are almost ready to go to the anodizer, where they will be Type II anodized black. Then they will get the letters filled with white enamel. Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes Drake "Doc" Dameräu NAR Section 614 L3CC member TRA 9934 L3 www.nepra.com www.rocketmaterials.org http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/home.htm > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tett > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 10:44 PM > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Centimeter cubes > > > Hey List! > > Just got a nice centimeter measuring cube from Anne Black. I > am looking > forward to photographing my collection with this beside each piece. > > Do these things have a name? I have been searching the net > and can't find > any of these gauges anywhere. I know Anne could have sold > many more of > these if she had more. > > Cheers, > > Mike Tettenborn > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Centimeter Cubes
Good point, and I agree. But, I have a slightly different motive. I have wanted to get one ever since I saw one in the news papers when "they" announced "possible fossilized bacteria in the Mars rock". (ALH1983??) This was years before I started collecting meteorites. I do failure analysis and many of my papers are peer reviewed. Placing a quarter or a scale (AKA ruler) on or near a fracture/failure has always been my MO. But, it's always looked, well, kind of "cheap". ...at least for a paper that is being published. Having a centimeter cube will add a bit of professionalism to my profession. The other thing it does (in my profession) is that if I want to show the bottom or particular side of the failed object, I can orientate the cube with the position of the object. Hence, my "need" for the T, B, N, S, E, and W. This helps with the lay-person reading my papers. Most non-scientists only read my conclusion and look at the pictures. Picture Caption: "Failed bolt pictured next to centimeter cube. Catastrophic overload bending moment is in the W direction. Fracture origin is at E" I did find one and it's being shipped now. However, I became so frustrated in my search that I sent out an RFQ to several gauge makers. I'm going to have a bunch of them made for my peers and give them out as Christmas presents. Oh, yeah, The work for meteorites too. :-) "Centimeter cubes: Not just for meteorites any more!" Drake "Justification" Damerau Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes Drake "Doc" Dameräu NAR Section 614 L3CC member TRA 9934 L3 www.nepra.com www.rocketmaterials.org http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/home.htm > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of dean bessey > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 3:44 AM > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Centimeter Cubes > > > For years this topic has come up regularly as people > try and get cubes for size. > Whats wrong with using a coin in your photo for size? > Everybody knows what the size of a USA 10 and 25 cent > coin is but if not I am sure somebody would send you > one or you could get one at a local coin store or when > travelling. Everybody knows somebody from the USA. Then you > could get a collection of a half dozen EU and australian > coins to compare if somebody really wants to take sizes into > account so as to cover all bases. Or if that is to much why > is a centimeter cube somehow better than a centimeter ruler? > (Which everybody already has). > This centimeter cube fetish thing is a solution > looking for a problem. Save yourself hassle and use a > ruler or a coin. People will get the idea of the size > of whatever it is that you are selling. > Sincerely > DEAN > > > > > > __ > __ > Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's > Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. > http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Centimeter Cubes
OK, done that, now where can I buy one! :-) Drake Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes Drake "Doc" Dameräu NAR Section 614 L3CC member TRA 9934 L3 www.nepra.com www.rocketmaterials.org http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/home.htm > -Original Message- > From: Maria Haas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 10:35 PM > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Cc: Drake > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Centimeter Cubes > > Hello Drake, > > I know where you have a shot at one of four of them! > > http://www.aerolite.org/events/greensburg-raffle.htm > > Maria > Shameless promoter > > > - Original Message - > From: "Drake" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 4:29 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Centimeter Cubes > > > A few months ago, someone asked where they could get a centimeter cube. > The only answer was that somebody had an extra one he'd part with. I've > been searching myself ever since. I Googled my fingers to death, checked > major gauge manufacturers, and even contacted NIST. Nothing > > I'm looking for a good one. Nothing cheap with letters glued on. > > Does anyone know where I can buy a centimeter cube? > > > Drake > > > > Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes > > Drake "Doc" Dameräu > NAR Section 614 > L3CC member > TRA 9934 L3 > > www.nepra.com > www.rocketmaterials.org > http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/home.htm > > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Centimeter Cubes
A few months ago, someone asked where they could get a centimeter cube. The only answer was that somebody had an extra one he'd part with. I've been searching myself ever since. I Googled my fingers to death, checked major gauge manufacturers, and even contacted NIST. Nothing I'm looking for a good one. Nothing cheap with letters glued on. Does anyone know where I can buy a centimeter cube? Drake Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes Drake "Doc" Dameräu NAR Section 614 L3CC member TRA 9934 L3 www.nepra.com www.rocketmaterials.org http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/home.htm __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Etching Iron Meteorites
>From an earlier post, [Widmanstatten patterns] can happen in wrought iron alloys used for heat treating fixtures, aluminum alloys, copper alloys and very commonly in titanium alloys. It can also happen in HSLA alloys when improperly heat treated. While I personally dont have any pictures, I Googled it and came up with these: In iron alloys http://www.msm.cam.ac.uk/phase-trans/2002/widmanstatten.html http://doc.tms.org/ezMerchant/prodtms.nsf/ProductLookupItemID/MMTA-0001- 15/$FILE/MMTA-0001-15F.pdf?OpenElement http://metals.about.com/library/bldef-Widmanstatten-Structure.htm In Titanium http://stinet.dtic.mil/oai/oai? <http://stinet.dtic.mil/oai/oai?&verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&iden tifier=ADA070745> &verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA070745 http://www.msm.cam.ac.uk/phase-trans/2000/C9/lecture3.pdf http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL <http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TXD-4K719V7- 1&_user=10&_coverDate=07%2F25%2F2006&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d& view=c&_acct=C50221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=8f512a19 205c0c408e41e0acd72c51b1> &_udi=B6TXD-4K719V7-1&_user=10&_coverDate=07%2F25%2F2006&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_ orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C50221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_us erid=10&md5=8f512a19205c0c408e41e0acd72c51b1 http://www.springerlink.com/content/hm8447m741171048/ In copper http://www.copper.org/applications/cuni/corrosion_resistance_ni_alum_bro nze.html Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes Drake "Doc" Dameräu President, NEPRA NAR Section 614 L3CC member TRA 9934 L3 <http://www.nepra.com> www.nepra.com www.rocketmaterials.org <http://www.rocketmaterials.org/> http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/home.htm -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David & Kitt Deyarmin Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 4:31 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Etching Iron Meteorites You said it was incorrect to state that only meteorites exhibited a Widmanstatten pattern. What other materials exhibit a Widmanstatten pattern? Do you have pictures? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Etching Iron Meteorites
You must have misread my post. I did not say high carbon steels had Widmanstatten structures. To the contrary, the alloys I listed do not have any carbon at all. The only steel I listed was HSLA and I mentioned that it is difficult to get Widmanstatten patterns in them. Pearlite is not the same as Widmanstatten, nor is martensite or bainite. Pearlite is a structure made of iron and iron carbide and only found in heat treated steels with carbon contents over 0.20% by weight. To confirm this, all you need to do is ask a professional metallurgist, but then thats what I am. Drake Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes Drake "Doc" Dameräu President, NEPRA NAR Section 614 L3CC member TRA 9934 L3 www.nepra.com www.rocketmaterials.org http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/home.htm > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:meteorite-list- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mr EMan > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:09 PM > To: Gerald Flaherty; Sterling K. Webb; Drake; meteorite- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Etching Iron Meteorites > > Dear Jerry, Why do you say "WOW!"? just WOW? I enjoy > a good discussion like everyone else so imagine my > disappointment in opening posts that just say Wow or > Cool or Gosh... It is better to interact like this is > a message board and not a chat room, in my opinion. If > we all do so it will knock my mailbox down to under > 200 messages a day. Thank you. Now to the discussion > at hand. > > So while some were moved to awe at this alleged > revelation, the fact remains to be proven that the > pearlite/ferrite/cementite patterns in high carbon > steel are correctly identified as Widmanstatten > patterns proper. They are micro structures and not > visible ASAIK to the naked eye. Plus they are > artifacts of human industry. We have yet to have Drake > confirm that these are other occurrences of > Widmanstatten patterns found in other than meteorites. > > Elton > > --- Gerald Flaherty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > WOW! > > Jerry Flaherty > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Etching Iron Meteorites
I agree, "Zero". You could make nice Widmanstatten patterns in some stainless steel alloys like 303, the giant crystals I've seen would be virtually impossible and very expensive. The dendrites seen in cast irons are the crystals growing along the crystallographic planes as the metal solidifies. This is basically the same property in metals that also form the Widmanstatten patterns. It's also why snowflakes, and gemstones have their unique shapes; they are all growing crystals taking on the shape of their crystallographic planes, or atomic arrangement. (ie, salt is always a cube and an amethyst is always a tetrahedron.) Drake Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes Drake "Doc" Dameräu President, NEPRA NAR Section 614 L3CC member TRA 9934 L3 www.nepra.com www.rocketmaterials.org http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/home.htm > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:meteorite-list- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin Altmann > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 7:21 PM > To: 'Sterling K. Webb'; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Etching Iron Meteorites > > "What's the likelihood of fake meteorites being made that way?" > > Zero. You have to fake at least pallasites for the fraud becoming > profitable > q.e.d. > > Would be nice to have a photo of the described products, if they show any > similarity to Widmathompsopatures. > (Cast irons display dendritic patterns). > > Martin, > Frozen in Tucson. > > > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- > Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von > Sterling > K. Webb > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 1. Februar 2007 00:43 > An: Drake; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Etching Iron Meteorites > > Hi, Drake, > > > ...Widmanstatten patterns are unique to > > meteorites. That's not true. > > I'll bite. In what other materials can they be found? > Long considered definitive hereabouts. I quote one > source: "Widmanstatten pattern or Thompson structure: > This pattern does not appear in terrestrial iron ores. > Its presence is diagnostic in the identification of a > meteorite." > Looking for a definition, I found that they form when > "steels are cooled at a critical rate from extremely high > temperatures. It consists of ferrite and pearlite and > has a cross-hatched appearance due to the ferrite > having formed along certain crystallographic planes." > What's the likelihood of fake meteorites being made > that way? > > Sterling K. Webb > > - Original Message - > From: "Drake" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 4:52 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Etching Iron Meteorites > > > That was I, and thank you. The Nital I was using was what I use for > standard metallographic sample preparation at 2% to 5%. I see now I need > a much higher concentration. > > I did find one metallurgical error in that it states that Widmanstatten > patterns are unique to meteorites. That's not true. > > Drake > > Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes > > Drake "Doc" Dameräu > President, NEPRA > NAR Section 614 > L3CC member > TRA 9934 L3 > > www.nepra.com > www.rocketmaterials.org > http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/home.htm > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:meteorite-list- > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary K. Foote > > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:21 PM > > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Etching Iron Meteorites > > > > Hello List, > > > > I forget who was asking this morning, but Ruben Garcia has graciously > > allowed me to > > publish his in-depth article on cutting, etching and preserving iron > > meteorites to my > > site. > > > > For those interested the URL is; > > > > http://www.meteorite-dealers.com/etchingandpreservation.html > > > > Gary > > http://www.meteorite-dealers.com > > __ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Etching Iron Meteorites
While it's true that the Widmanstatten pattern was first seen in meteorites, it is fairly commonly seen in terrestrial metal alloys. Metals are crystals when in solid form, and undergo allotropic phase changes when heated and cooled. Adding different metals together form alloys and these solutions form new phases. Even these new phases undergo phase changes when heated and cooled. So just having two metals in solution can create several different phases. Each of these phases have different melting points, solidification points, and temperatures at which these phase changes take place. All this is like water and salt... Water has a boiling point and a freezing point. Ice, liquid water, and steam are all phases. If you add salt, the boiling point is lowered and the freezing point is lowered. This is just a quick example of how one thing can change the phases of another. In metals its exactly the same thing, except there are actually several phases that exist when the metal alloy is in solid form. The Widmanstatten pattern is a geometrical pattern resulting from the formation of a new phase along certain crystallographic planes of the parent solid solution. The orientation of the lattice in the new phase are crystalographically related to the lattice in the parent phase. This can happen in wrought iron alloys used for heat treating fixtures, aluminum alloys, copper alloys and very commonly in titanium alloys. It can also happen in HSLA alloys when improperly heat treated. Sorry for rambling. I am in no way a meteorite expert, but I'm very passionate about metallurgy. I have looked at the Nantan and the Campo I have in my metallurgical laboratory. There is no way that some of the things I've seen could be made on earth in less than 4 billion years. If you want a quick lesson in metallurgy, I wrote a paper explaining some of the cool metallurgical stuff. http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/metallurgy_faq_v11.htm Drake Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes Drake "Doc" Dameräu President, NEPRA NAR Section 614 L3CC member TRA 9934 L3 www.nepra.com www.rocketmaterials.org http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/home.htm > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:meteorite-list- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sterling K. Webb > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 6:43 PM > To: Drake; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Etching Iron Meteorites > > Hi, Drake, > > > ...Widmanstatten patterns are unique to > > meteorites. That's not true. > > I'll bite. In what other materials can they be found? > Long considered definitive hereabouts. I quote one > source: "Widmanstatten pattern or Thompson structure: > This pattern does not appear in terrestrial iron ores. > Its presence is diagnostic in the identification of a > meteorite." > Looking for a definition, I found that they form when > "steels are cooled at a critical rate from extremely high > temperatures. It consists of ferrite and pearlite and > has a cross-hatched appearance due to the ferrite > having formed along certain crystallographic planes." > What's the likelihood of fake meteorites being made > that way? > > Sterling K. Webb > > - Original Message - > From: "Drake" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 4:52 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Etching Iron Meteorites > > > That was I, and thank you. The Nital I was using was what I use for > standard metallographic sample preparation at 2% to 5%. I see now I need > a much higher concentration. > > I did find one metallurgical error in that it states that Widmanstatten > patterns are unique to meteorites. That's not true. > > Drake > > Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes > > Drake "Doc" Dameräu > President, NEPRA > NAR Section 614 > L3CC member > TRA 9934 L3 > > www.nepra.com > www.rocketmaterials.org > http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/home.htm > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:meteorite-list- > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary K. Foote > > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:21 PM > > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Etching Iron Meteorites > > > > Hello List, > > > > I forget who was asking this morning, but Ruben Garcia has graciously > > allowed me to > > publish his in-depth article on cutting, etching and preserving iron > > meteorites to my > > site. > > > > For those interested the URL is; > > > > http://www.meteorite-dealers.com/etchingandpreservation.html > >
Re: [meteorite-list] Etching Iron Meteorites
That was I, and thank you. The Nital I was using was what I use for standard metallographic sample preparation at 2% to 5%. I see now I need a much higher concentration. I did find one metallurgical error in that it states that Widmanstatten patterns are unique to meteorites. That's not true. Drake Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes Drake "Doc" Dameräu President, NEPRA NAR Section 614 L3CC member TRA 9934 L3 www.nepra.com www.rocketmaterials.org http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/home.htm > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:meteorite-list- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary K. Foote > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:21 PM > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Etching Iron Meteorites > > Hello List, > > I forget who was asking this morning, but Ruben Garcia has graciously > allowed me to > publish his in-depth article on cutting, etching and preserving iron > meteorites to my > site. > > For those interested the URL is; > > http://www.meteorite-dealers.com/etchingandpreservation.html > > Gary > http://www.meteorite-dealers.com > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Etching Techniques
As a newbie, both to this list and meteorites, I want to thank everyone. Im on several lists but this one is the most easy-going one. You people have a great community here! I feel compelled to share my recent involvement into meteorites. I have been a metallurgist for one of the largest defense contractors in the US for almost 10 years. I have two hobbies; high power rockets and astronomy. I build 100-pound rockets that go well over 2 miles high, and have built an award-winning 20 f5 telescope. (Are you seeing a theme here?) It was only recently that I realized how blatantly obvious it should have been for me to collect meteorites. (particularly iron meteorites!) So, I bought a Nantan and a Compo meteorite to play with. I have a full metallurgical laboratory at my disposal with everything a meteorite lover could ever dream of. from sectioning equipment, to grinding/polishing equipment, to digital microscopes with bright field/darkfield, polarizers and differential interference contrast prisms. Ive been surfing the web for various etchants but am not having much luck. Ive cut a few sections and etched them using my own etchants used for Fe-Ni alloys, even ones with picric acid and hydrofluoric acid. I just cant get as much contrast as I see pictured on websites. Can some of you help me with some various etching techniques? Drake Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes Drake "Doc" Dameräu President, NEPRA NAR Section 614 L3CC member TRA 9934 L3 www.nepra.com www.rocketmaterials.org http://home.sprynet.com/~monel/home.htm __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
