Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
Bob: You make a good point, but I think liability laws, which vary state to state are pretty complex. Hopefully, as you suggested some actual legal opinion will be offered. I had a business law professor in college say that the law looks for someone to pay regardless of whether a person is actually responsible. It may not win in court, but I'll bet the legal argument for someone being hit by a meteorite in a doctor's office would be something like, there is an implied guarantee of safety when entering the building. George __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
Carl: Your examples show why there are so many 5-4 decisions on the supreme court. There are at least two legal viewpoints and a practical, though not necessarily legal one, take the money and run. I know we could probably keep going back and forth with this issue, invoking analogies all day. The issue of ownership is an interesting legal and philosophical issue. I always remember the Native American position, "The earth does not belong to us, we belong to the earth". I'll bet, if asked, they'd have an answer for meteorites and sunglasses. George __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
Carl: Hello and thanks for your comments and point of view. I actually didn't intend for this to be taken as cut and dry. I do come down on the side of the land owners, but my reference to the EM Spectrum implies that there is always another point of view. If you were unfortunate enough to be hit by a meteorite on someone else's property, I believe you'd be entitled to damages for your injury and pain and suffering. If you were walking on my property here in CT and one of my black walnut trees fell on you, you could (and should) file a claim against my home owners policy, but I don't think you'd get to keep the black walnut tree which is probably worth about 10K for the wood. In your example of the dollar bill, a fairly insignificant amount if you can afford to see a doctor, the dollar probably goes to the finder. But if you drop your Maui Jim sunglasses there, you still have the right to them and neither the finder nor the doctor nor the landlord owns them. Of course most communities have a procedure for claiming a lost and found, unlike a space rock. This series of events changes if the object which hits you is from a military satellite. They'd deny any responsibility but want it back anyhow. There was a court case recently where a contractor was removing a wall in a house and found a bunch of money which had been hidden in there for decades. The contractor tried to claim it using the old legal defense of "finders keepers losers weepers" but the courts said, no. I guess we all have a slight bias when interpreting the law and what constitutes ownership. This no doubt determines which side of this issue we each come down on. George __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'
We should all be concerned about this law and not be complacent. Up until the 1980s the Communications Act of 1934 prohibited anyone from owning the electromagnetic spectrum. It was considered the "peoples spectrum". During the 1980s the telecommunications industry bought off a corrupt and ignorant congress and FCC and had the laws rewritten. In that case the ownership by the people, I felt, was a good thing. After all those radio waves are constantly passing through our bodies and on our properties, so we should all have access to them. Instead of insisting on the industry encrypting their signals, it became illegal to descramble any radio or tv signals unless you paid some company. In the current view, the land owner does (and I believe should) have ownership of meteorites. We should all be vigilant that some politician or museum director does not start an effort to overturn this. All it takes is some money and a few greedy politicians (redundant I know). I don't see any immediate changes on the horizon, I'm just cautioning against complacency. George __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The search for aliens should start on Earth not outer space, says scientist
Darren and Gary: I agree, it may be a long shot, but one of the problems with science is it's resistance to change. Almost every monumental discovery was met by skepticism if not outright ridicule. Just a few years ago the mere mention of any researcher considering lights or outgassing on the moon would have caused funding cuts, rejection of tenure and likely dismissal. Academic freedom should encompass ideas which are inherently offensive or outrageous. Without that we are condemned to repeat the mistakes of the past and slow our acquisition of the truth. This guy may be totally wrong, but he should be allowed to pursue his ideas. George __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] (no subject)
Paul: Welcome to the list. I normally read quietly, posting something every few months when the urge strikes. Everything you said is true, which makes this list one of my favorites. However, in addition to the immense knowledge and profound statements as well as cutting edge research and terrific bargains, you will also find an occasional brawl resembling a sixth grade schoolyard fight. I just wanted to give you a "heads up" on what some would call the downside of this list, but which I find "sociologically interesting". Without this caveat it might be similar to finding out as a child that your parents weren't perfect, like the first time I saw my normally calm dad give some other motorist the finger. Anyhow, I've been on this list for years, and unless I get kicked off for some reason (not very likely) I plan to be here for years to come. I'm sure you'll learn a lot and be entertained as well. George __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics - west
Jason et. al. Did anyone offer to act as a broker? Rather than paying outright, have a contract stating the total number of grams retrieved and a percentage for selling them. I know most hunters would rather own what they sell, but it beats leaving specimens to weather in the field. George __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] How about a thread to discuss hunting ethics
Mike: Thanks for sharing your experience and views. Your comments really struck home for me. Many of us tend to think because we all live in the USA that things are not that different a few hundred miles in one direction or another. During the 1970s I hitch hiked and hopped freight trains to see the US. The south was a harsh dichotomy. On one hand, I met some of the nicest most trusting people who opened their homes to me. On the other hand, I was shot at, assaulted with bottles from passing cars, harassed and chased by law enforcement. It was a quick lesson in cultural differences. While I was not officially collecting meteorites back then, I learned very quickly that wandering far from urban areas was done at great risk. I have literally dozens of stories which people have a difficult time believing, but your recent experience tells me that in many areas not much has changed. This is why I eventually tried to restrict my travels to as close to the coast as possible. Hopefully, others on this list will take your warning seriously and not venture into any area for which they don't have permission or any place that doesn't want us. I for one am content to let residents of the stone age keep to themselves. George __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] List Members, what's your job ?
I'm a 59 year old voice actor and real estate broker. Also, while I don't get paid for it, a gadfly to local, state and national officials. George __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Cheapening of Meteorites Continues....
Michael: Hello. I do understand your concern over turning meteorites into "trinkets" and "junk", but I think it's important to discriminate between the historical uses of some of this meteoritic material and the "dime store" variety. While I don't understand gold plating etched slices, I do find some current uses of "some" material appealing. Knives and coins and some jewelry are appealing to me, although I'm sure not to everyone. There are also areas that are bound to be controversial. Yesterday I was at the Boston Museum of Science and saw a piece of lunar highland rock encased in a lucite sphere, given to the Museum by NASA. I would have preferred this not be encased, but I'm sure NASA put some thought into why this should be so. Anyhow, hopefully, as you have said, no one will be bidding on the plated Gibeon. However, if I knew the only piece of lunar rock available (legally) to me was encased in Lucite, I'd probably try to get it anyhow. Clear skies George __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] meteor shower
Twink: It was the Quadrantid shower which peaked in the early morning today (5 am PST). George __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT -- need a website or data on calibrated spectral data
Tracy: Hello, if you are looking for the spectral "type" they are as follows: Antares-Spectral Type M1.5Iab-Ib+B4Ve Antares is a Red Giant Beta Pegasus (Pegasi)-Also known as Scheat is also a Red Giant, an irrgular variable, the only info I have on it is spectal type M2. George __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Super Nova
Richard: What they discovered were the "remains" of a supernova whose supernova light reached us about 140 years ago. The 140 year calculation was based on the area of expansion of the material around the remnant. On average, we should experience about 3 supernovae per century, according to current estimates. We have seen many supernovae in other galaxies, but until this "most current" one was discovered, the last one occurred in the mid 1600s about the time of Isaac Newton. You are of course correct, the light which is currently hitting astronomers eyes has been traveling thousands of years. I hope this clarifies, rather than confuses the issue. George __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Weston
For whatever it's worth, I can account for about 2.5 grams in several pieces. George __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: metal detector giveaway!
Tracy: Hello. While Heathkit no longer makes kits, they still do sell copies of their manuals. There are also a number of internet sites that sell them. Some of those old metal detectors had unique directions to compensate for ground effects, so getting at least the operating manual would be a good idea. A fair number of Heahtkits never worked properly, since many were actual kits and the talent of the builder varied greatly. For that reason, I would try for the construction manual as well. George __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Listening to meteors
Hello everyone. Listening to meteors or communicating with another station utilizing the ionized trails of meteors is something many amateur (HAM) radio operators do frequently. If anyone is interested they can get some information (some free, some not) at the www.ARRL.com website. It is the headquarters for amateur radio, located in Newington, CT. Most communicating over ionized trails is done with highly directional antennas using either CW (Morse code), SSB (single sideband) or digital modes with fairly high power levels. If any of you have scanners and can monitor the amateur bands at 50, 144, 220, 440, 928 and 1,200 MHz you'll be able to hear these short bursts of communication. Additionally, many hams use EME (earth-moon-earth) communication, bouncing signals off the moon with vhf, uhf and microwave signals. I personally am setting up a radio telescope at a new house and will ultimately give a shot at EVE earth-Venus-earth. That attempt is still a couple years away as the house repairs must come first. There are quite a few publications on meteor scatter communications, some of which I have seen on (where else) eBay. You don't need a license to listen, but you do to transmit. George Quaker Hill, CT __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Kitchen Comet Cows
Hello everyone, I'd just like to share an observation here without passing judgement on anyone else or their opinions. Although I no longer teach, I have a background in math and science education. To me, the primary focus has to be on getting the audience to learn what is being taught and to remember it for more than just a few minutes. I too loved Mr. Wizard, but I recognize that today's students would not react positively to this approach. As much as I'd like them to be thrilled about a subject before anything is presented to them, that's just not reality. Whatever it takes to keep this country from losing a generation of scientists, within reason, is OK with me. Crude or not, there is plenty of room for divergent approaches to learning. I'll bet those kids never forget where the methane comes from or that there;s methane in comets. Respectfully, George - Original Message - From: "Bob Martino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 8:07 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Kitchen Comet Cows > You have _got_ to be kidding. > > Did you in fact READ my kitchen comet write-up? If you did then you should > have noticed that it is stuffed full of educational content. Every > ingredient added to the comet is there because such things are found in > real comets. So I make my activities enjoyable. This is wrong somehow? > Should all science content be presented by someone who talks like Ben Stein > on sedatives? Should I not have my own style? > > I inject humor into my presentations. This elicits an emotional response > from the audience. If you had bothered to keep up on educational, > learning, and brain research in the last 18 years you might have noticed > results indicating that humans remember better when strong emotions are > tied with the memories. Since it wouldn't do for me to make my audience > cry or run in fear, I figure that making them happy through the use of > jokes will add that emotional engagement which helps to make the memories > last. > > FYI, I never fail to receive many compliments from the _parents_ (not their > "crude youth") who attend my shows. I constantly am told that they learned > something and will remember it. And I made them happy, too. Oh, how awful > I am! Western Civilization is DOOMED! > > Seriously, if you have a better way to indicate the methane content in the > kitchen comet, I'd love to hear it. Until then, you might try to lighten > up. "Fun" and "educational" are not mutually exclusive. > > > >You are not alone in this opinion. The idea that science should be taught > >as a form of entertainment --not necessarily with any substantial content > >nor accountability-- is the primary reason why I left the science teaching > >profession 18 years ago. The old Mr. Wizard TV shows of the 1950s would be > >considered dull by today's commercial entertainment-driven standards, but > >they were highly informative-- and to me as a young boy--fascinating. > > > >> In my humble but doubtless unique opinion, too much of our world is run > >> already by crude youth and their toadies, the crude youth marketeers. > >> Perhaps like the methane itself, it's a product of decay. > >> > >> I vote not to encourage it. > >> > >Add my vote too. > > > >> Dave Coleman > >and Paul Dudley > > > >>> And don't forget the methane! So I take a stuffed cow and have it pass > >>> some gas into the bucket. Sure its crude. That's why the kids love it > >>> so. > >> > >> > Mooo! > >> > >> __ > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > > > Bob MartinoCan you really name a star? >http://home.columbus.rr.com/starfaq/ > "I look up to the heavens > but night has clouded over > no spark of constellation > no Vela no Orion." -Enya > > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mohammed
Mike et. al. I agree, "his" abilities to post photos etc. is inconsistent with his other behavior. He is putting us on. George B. - Original Message - From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Matson, Robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'George N. '" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 12:55 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mohammed > Guys, this is a guy just yanking our chains. Forget it and ignore him. > I am sure he is getting a laugh every time we respond. I have seen this > behavior before. Soon he will be posting dead animal photos with rocks. > > Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
