[meteorite-list] Re: Meteorite Market 101
I'm with Doug on this one. Free Markets for Free Men! Mike Fowler Chicago ebay--Starsandrocks Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations, 1776. "People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices." __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] OT--Mirrors to infinity
Yes, but if each mirror can only reflect back 99% of the incoming light (most high end telescope mirrors do worse) the image will become impossibly dim long before the 30,000th reflection. Mike Fowler Chicago If two mirrors are 1 km apart you'd have to look back to the 30,000 th reflected image to see the light still on while the light is off, by a tenth of a second. You also need to cut the light quickly. Bulbs are too slow. Maybe an electric arc with a nanosecond surge protector, as can be purchased. Deliberately surge, and in a nanosecond the arc is off. Get a very bright source; you are looking at 30,000 km. of reflections. So using two infinite mirror effect mirrors as a time machine to look back one tenth second and see one light on after it is off is just barely do-able, it would seem, using some big mirrors and a nice big field on a dark moonless night, and careful alignment to insure perpendicularity (the curvature of the Earth would have to be accounted for). Francis Graham __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Recognizing a Venusian meteorite
Sterling, Interesting theory about Venus's atmosphere being blown off by a monster impactor. Here is my objection: Where did the 100 bar carbon dioxide atmosphere come from? Could one monster impactor blow off the existing atmosphere and yet at the same time deposit a new one? Seems a stretch. I suggest a different scenario. Mars is enriched in Argon 40 compared to earth for the same reason it is enriched in deuterium. The lighter elements are lost to space as a function of Mars's lesser gravity. Venus has a tremendous amount of CO2, Argon 36 neon, etc, because it atmosphere was not blown off into space by a giant impactor. On the contrary it was earth's atmosphere that was lost to space. Therefore using Earth's ratio of Ar 36/40 as a standard is misleading. What was the giant impactor responsible for the loss of earth's atmosphere. A good candidate is the impactor that created the moon. In any case, a young crystallization age of less than 500 million years would eliminate all sources, except Venus and Mars. Mike Fowler E.J wrote: Howard Wu wrote: Still the question was how would we recognize a venusian meteorite? Great question to ponder. The best way to identify a Venus Stone would be by the Argon isotope ratios. Argon-36 is the natural original isotope of Argon from the solar nebula. Argon-40 is formed by the radioactive decay of Potassium. It forms in the stone body of a planet and is released to the atmosphere by volcanic action, or out-gassing. On Earth, most of our Argon is isotope 40, thanks to our active little rockball, and there is very little natural Argon. The 40:36 isotope ratio is 296 to 1. On Mars, there is even less natural Argon. The 40:36 isotope ratio for Mars is 2750 +/- 500 to 1 (Is Mars more volcanic than the Earth? H.). So far, it all fits with those nice theories about volatiles and nebulas (which, you call tell by my tone, I distrust profoundly). Therefore, we would expect a ratio of 200:1 for Venus or maybe even 100:1, right? Here's where reality gets in its licks. First, there's 50 to 100 times more Argon and Neon in Venus' atmosphere than we would expect, huge amounts! Where in the H*** did that come from? Second, the 40:36 isotope ratio is 1 to 1, more or less. That is, they are present in roughly equal amounts. Say what? Well, maybe all the noble gasses are enriched? Nah, they're not. This demonstrates that the abnormal Argon did not come from the old solar nebula. The two explanations left and they're both whacky: 1) Venus has no Potassium in the planet at all, so there is no Argon 40! This goes against everything. No Potassium!!! That's Crazy. And 2) Venus has never had any kind of volcanic activity at all, ever, period. That's even Crazier, since we can radar-map a huge of what appear to be volcanic features on Venus. My personal theory is that Venus had its entire native atmosphere blown off by a whopping big impactor 480,000,000 years ago, an impactor that completely melted Venus' crust, resurfaced the planet, and left a lot of its own volatiles behind as a new atmosphere to mix with the residues of the melted crust. Hey, I said it was whopping big, didn't I? So, what you do is a rare gas analysis of the suspected Venus meteorite, and if the Argon 40:36 ratio is the same, then Venusian meteorite is its name, as Johnny Cochran would say. Sterling K. Webb __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: What Would Nininger Do?
Kevin, I find your post very disturbing. First, several of the saner members of the list have been pleading for a cessation of the constant personal attacks. With Mike's apology, I thought we were getting somewhere. Second, you may not like Mike Farmer, and you two may disagree about whether bureaucrats deserve more or less respect than traffic cops, but getting down in the mud with hateful personal attacks is NOT the right approach. Sincerely, Mike Fowler Chicago __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] ebay descriptions
Yes, and it is even more annoying when the description says HUGE!!! Mike Fowler Chicago it extremely annoying to see a location name that I'm interested in, only to click on it and see that it's a 0.00438 gram speck. Craig __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Deceptive
Is it the HUGE part in the description, or am I missing something? Mike Fowler think it is worse because the seller is an IMCA member. I apologize to the seller, but it is my opinion. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2196131355 Am I alone in thinking this seller is not completely truthful? __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Nickel test kit
Hi List, The hallmark of a good scientific experiment is reproducibility. I'm getting very frustrated with the nickel test kit I bought on ebay to test my rusty iron meteorwrong. I do not get reproducible and or consistent results. For example filings from a nickel (5 cent coin) have come back negative. Even the Gibeon which gave a positive test Saturday gives a negative result today. Any users of this test who can give me practical advise? Is it a waste of money? Is there a better one out there? Thanks, Mike Fowler Frustrated in Chicago __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] meteorite from Phobos? Kaidun
You guys are dancing around the answer to the question. The Vernadsky Institute has in their possession a meteorite that they believe came from Phobos. Why do they think so? Because it has a spectral match with carbonaceous chondrites as does Phobos and it has at least 2 clasts that are Shergottite like that they theorize were blasted off Mars and were later captured by Phobos and incorporated into its regolith, before being blasted into space and eventually falling to Earth. The meteorite is Kaidun, which I mentioned about 2 weeks ago. Mike Fowler Chicago See: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2003/pdf/1236.pdf My question is: Would it be possible to find on Earth, meteorites with an origin from Phobos (or the other moon Deimos)? Yes, but at present we don't really have any way to determine if a specific meteorite originated from Phobos or Deimos as opposed to asteroids of similar composition (as best we can determine the composition without actual samples). The Russians have been planning to launch a sample return mission to Phobos for some time. Last I heard they were hopeful of a late 2004 sendoff. -- Philip R. Pib Burns __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ad - Rare Weekly Special DHO 019 age??
Adam, Is there a typo here? 525 million years is not particularly old. ALH84001 is 4.5 billion years old. Mike Fowler Chicago Its very old crystallization age of 525Ma +/- 56Ma. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Rusty Iron Meteorwrong?
Fellow listees: While looking in the woods for Park Forest Meteorites I found a rusty somewhat angular chunk of Iron. I know the odds of it being meteorite are about a million to one, but I took it home since it was the only thing I found, and because its shape was not like any obvious tool. I purchased one of those $20 nickel tests on ebay to play around with. I tested a coathanger-negative, some filings from a Gibeon-positive and the rusty iron, which also tested positive. What else can I do to test this thing? I looked at several of the meteor wrong sites, but they were in no help in this case, since we are not talking about hematite, basalt or other common meteorwrongs. If this is a meteorite it would be an iron from a long ago fall, so no fusion crust. Since it is iron, the magnetic test would be pointless. Can I saw the end off with a hacksaw, grind and polish it smooth, etch it with acid for the widmanstatten pattern? Is this practical for someone with no special tools or experience? Hoping to learn something. I don't really believe it is a meteorite, but the positive nickel test leaves me little choice but to dig a little deeper. Thanks, Mike Fowler Chicago PS I'm feeling a little foolish posting this, but surely all you cold hunters out there have encountered something like this at least once. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: The Hotest Deals of the Year-Update
Quick update: I got an email acknowledging my order overnight. And with all due respect to Mike Farmer with whom I have done business in the past, and with whom I hope to do more business in the future, GUJBA AT 50 CENTS A GRAM LOOKS LIKE A BARGAIN TO ME.! Dear List and M. Fowler, just a short note to answer few questions we had, we got so many answers to our special sales that we need time to reply to all of you. YES, the prices have to be discounted by 50% OFF the marked prices !!! that's give Begaa at 12.5$/gr, Pultusk under 6$/gr, CB's at 55$/gr includding Bencubbin etc.., etc... never seen before. Some of you got killer pieces for peanuts during this 48h race, even buyers from Denver show witch report to be slow with no interesting specimens... Most of you know Me Carine, for the others, you are welcome to get in touch with us. we are the source of most part of the rare stuff (who desagree with that fact ??) We will make you all happy with the stock we have, you'll ask for more. Sincerely, Bruno Carine France www.meteorite.fr Hi List, Regarding this meteorite sale I have two questions. Has anyone emailed to buy anything and gotten a response? I did, but no response yet. (after 12 hours) Second, I assumed that the sale price is 50% of the prices posted on the linked pages, because if the posted prices already reflect a 50% discount, then I don't see any bargains. Any comments from you more savvy list members? Mike Fowler __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: The Hotest Deals of the Year-Update
In a message dated 9/15/03 7:49:14 AM, Popocatept writes: GUJBA AT 50 CENTS A GRAM LOOKS LIKE A BARGAIN TO ME.! Hit the send key by accident before proofreading--what a bummer! Should read $50 a gram, not 50 cents. I know $50 a gram is not inexpensive, but I've been lusting after a nice sized piece of Gujba for a long time and prices are usually around $100 a gram. Now anyone with a big HAH 237 for sale cheap? Mike Fowler Chicago __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: [meteorite_sale] The Hotest Deals of the Year
Hi List, Regarding this meteorite sale I have two questions. Has anyone emailed to buy anything and gotten a response? I did, but no response yet. (after 12 hours) Second, I assumed that the sale price is 50% of the prices posted on the linked pages, because if the posted prices already reflect a 50% discount, then I don't see any bargains. Any comments from you more savvy list members? Mike Fowler Chicago Hello Bruno and list. Is anybody else having problems getting through The Earth's Memory spam filters. I've tried emailing several times without luck. Howard Wu The Earth's Memory [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear List members, Just a short note to let you know that we have decided to give you a rare opportunity to acquire exceptional specimens (historical falls, oriented, unique types, etc...) from our available meteorites at the lowest price ever seen worldwide. This year we decided not to go in Denver, so as we don't have the costs of travel and show fees we will give you the opportunity to buy from us with a 50% discount ...!! This offer will be available for only 48 hours (from 0h01 Saturday 13 to 0h01 Monday 15 eastern time) on a first ordered, first served basis. Check our special page http://www.meteorite.fr/en/forsale/hotdeals.htm and you will see that such a thing never happened before, nobody could compete this is what you all dreamed about for years !! these are real pieces, no ebay crumbs ! All the special prices are available only from the 13 web pages linked in the 48 hours Hot Deals box . We wish you a good race !! Sincerely, Bruno Carine The Earth's Memory LLC La Memoire de la Terre SARL France www.meteorite.fr www.fossile.fr www.jurassique.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: anyone with 1/2 million? a Zagami for You
Before anyone bids $450,000 for a 188 gram super hyped piece of Zagami they should consider the 43.9 slice of DAG 476 (a Shergottite) that Eric Twelker of the Meteorite Market has for only $10,975.00. I must say that I have lusted after that one myself, but none of my lottery investments have paid off yet! Mike Fowler Chicago Anyone on the list with $450,000 burning a hole in their pocket? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2190932023 Thanks, Tom Peregrineflier The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: Putorano
Hi Matt and list, How much Putorano is out there? What is it's TKW? I realize it's not a meteorite and TKW may not apply, but how can one judge it's rarity? By the way, I have two pieces, that Steve has seen and the exterior is so different, that I wonder about the authenticity of one of them. Do they vary a lot? Is it possible that there are fake Putoranos. How would one know? Thanks, Mike Fowler Subject: [meteorite-list] putorano Hi list. Does anyone have any PUTURANO forsale?I am looking for a 100 to 200 gram piece. Who has any? Let me know. Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! I do. Much of it. matt Morgan __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Kaidun meteorite
Dave Weir's marvelous site while discussing the various Martian Shergottites mentions the Kaidun Meteorite. Is there any of this material in collector, or dealer hands? Mike Fowler __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] DAG 670 476
Doing a little research in response to Matteo's listing of a 40 gram piece of DAG 670 I find that it has many pairings, one which is DAG 476 referred to as Lucky 13 Why is it lucky 13? Mike Fowler Chicago __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NWA 1139
Hi Mark, The original post about NWA 1139 was mine. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers with my question, it was not my intention. As a new member of the list I may not be sure of the proper protocol in every case. However, I realize I could have emailed you directly for clarification, but I only learn when others post their questions to the list, and by likewise posting my question to the list, I give others a chance to learn as well. What I have learned is that a meteorite can be unclassified, but still be numbered. (or named is this the same thing?) Thanks, Mike Fowler PS Will you be selling any more of those digital scales on ebay? Steve Arnold, proud owner of NWA 1139 main mass, says they're a good deal. Hello Tom and list, Just came in from the family reunion and see this post so I figure I would answer it. NWA1139 is mine, or was mine if the auction ended. It is uncut and has been only submitted for a number by me. snip-snip However, I am kind of surprized you e-mailed the list and asked about it. You have e-mailed me 60-80 times or more about other things. Mark Bostick www.MeteoriteArticles.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NWA1139 Meteorite MAIN MASS, 61.6 grams ebay auction
Hi List, Regarding ebay Item number: 2188776595 the description states: One stone with a total weight of only 61.6 grams and the complete uncut mass, otherwise known as the Main Mass My question is this-- If this is a classified and named meteorite, how can it be an uncut main mass? Isn't a sample of 20 grams required to be deposited with a curating institution? If it is somehow paired with other smaller stones, wouldn't you still have to slice off a piece in order to deterime the pairing? Mike Fowler Chicago __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] A Recent Set Of Ebay Aucitons
Al, Thanks for the alert. I bid on some auctions that match the description below. I will probably sit on my payment till the situation clarifies. However, many fraud alerts are triggered by computers monitoring for certain patterns, such as a newbie having a large amount of high value transactions with no track record. Assuming we are talking about the same auctions, and the same company, They do have a track record with many members of the list, and hopefully the above explanation is all there is. Mike Fowler Chicago starsandrocks In a message dated 8/27/03 9:23:54 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: o all, Recently a seller known to me posted a bunch of items on ebay. This seller had a zero rating and was new to eBay. I have dealt with this company before and have only heard good things about them and that they do their own hunting for the material they have. Included in these listing were a number of lunar specimens that are listed in the Meteoritical Bulletins. I just received notification from eBay that in investigation of this seller is taking place and that I may wish to hold off sending payment for my winning bids. I know for a new user they sold a bunch of material but they had a lot of nice material to begin with and items I wouldn't have minded buying. If anyone knows the details of what is going on and wants to send me an email or send one to the list as there were other list members that bid on these items I would be interested in what might be the reason for the suspension of this seller. Many auctions shot up real high for the material being sold at the last minute and I certainly did my part to bid high the last remaining few minutes and saw others do the same. Perhaps this is the basis for ebays concern. All my best! --AL Mitterling __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] archives-name vs email address
I prefer to read the meteorite list from the archives. It is easier to follow interesting threads, and ignore uninteresting ones. (for me anyway) http://one.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2003-August/date.html My question is: Why do some members names show up next to their post's and others are identified by their email address? Mine show up with my email address instead of my name. Although eventually one can get to recognize people by their email addresses, it is much more convenient to see the name. I've noticed this on other lists I'm a member of, but never asked why before. Mike Fowler Chicago __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Found In Israel
Asteroid #6 is Hebe, could have been mistranslated as HAVH-6 Mike Fowler Chicago Norbert, I don't recognize that asteroid either. Perhaps it is a typo. I do recognize Gabriel Shaked. He had that really neat astronomical online encyclopedia. He shut it down about a year ago due to copyright conflicts with David Weir. Best, ken newton Norbert Classen wrote: Hi all, There's another paragraph in this article that kindled my interest. Quote: A member of the vehicle's team, Gabriel Shaked, who was one of the people who discovered the stone, said yesterday that the test showed that it was a fragment of Asteroid HAVH-6, a rocky heavenly object that departed from its orbit between the sun and Jupiter, and broke up. The original asteroid approaches the earth once every three years. Has anyone ever heard of this particular asteroid HAVH-6, and it's connection to any known class of meteorites? Did I miss something? Any input on this alleged PB would be highly appreciated. All the best, Norbert __ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Asteroid 6-Hebe
Some references to 6-Hebe that indicate it could be the source of some meteorites. Mike Fowler Chicago Farinella, P. 1996. Chaotic routes between the asteroid belt and Earth. Meteorite! May 1996. Migliorini, F., et al. 1997. 7 Iris: A possible source of ordinary chondrites? Astron. Astroph. 321(2):652-659. A member of the vehicle's team, Gabriel Shaked, who was one of the people who discovered the stone, said yesterday that the test showed that it was a fragment of Asteroid HAVH-6, a rocky heavenly object that departed from its orbit between the sun and Jupiter, and broke up. The original asteroid approaches the earth once every three years. Has anyone ever heard of this particular asteroid HAVH-6, and it's connection to any known class of meteorites? Did I miss something? Any input on this alleged PB would be highly appreciated. All the best, Norbert __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] ebay auctions by Comet Meteorite-Shop
Comet Meteorite-Shop has many interesting ebay auctions running. However, they have a zero feedback rating. I am reluctant to buy from a zero feedback entity. Could any list members who have dealings with this company advise as to the reputation of same? Since I'm a new list member, I'll let any responders decide whether on or off list is more appropriate. Thanks, Mike Fowler Chicago ebay-Starsandrocks __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Slow to approve new Members (no more!)
Hi List, A few hours ago email from list members started appearing in my email in box. I guess that means I'm now a member of the Meteorite List. (if you get this for sure I'm in!) Thanks Walter Thanks Dave Andrew And Thanks Art for maintaining this list and for having a subscribe box that works! Mike Fowler Chicago (starsandrocks--ebay) Hi Walter and list, I just changed my email address a couple of days ago, but if you follow the link at the bottom of all the emails to sign-up, the SUBMIT button doesn't work. I also tried doing the manual thing by sending an email with SUBSCRIBE in the subject line. That didn't work after two days of waiting either. But, I did find this link that did work. (Accessed by going directly to http://www.meteoritecentral.com) http://meteoritecentral.com/mailing_list.shtml Try that and I think he'll be up and running within a several hours. Best, Dave __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
