Re: [meteorite-list] NWA paying for terrorism?
On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:38:05 -0500, Gary K. Foote [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anybody lend any credence to this theory? http://www.saharamet.com/meteorite/data/Sahara/Nwa.html Two facts: 1) NWA meteorites are for 95%, contraband items, coming from Algeria and the whole Sahara (9 million square kilometers). These rocks are centralized in one point (South Morocco, Erfoud). 25 Algerian policemen have been especially trained to stop this contraband. See two links (you can use Google language tools to translate from French) : http://www.elwatan.com/print.php3?id_article=15125 http://www.algerie-dz.com/article1665.html 2) Trans Saharan Counterterrorism Initiative. Saharan contraband is well organized and linked with army groups. That's the reason why a budget of $ 500 millions will be allocated by the US government to stop it. Ten sub-Saharan countries are associated to the project. Half of the budget will be allocated for helping the population to develop their economy, the other is dedicated to the fight against army groups and the contraband controlled by them. See this link: http://www.defense.gov/news/May2005/20050516_1126.html And also for an external point of view: http://www.tecom.usmc.mil/caocl/Africa/Pan-Sahel/Readings/Islamist%20Terrorism %20in%20the%20Sahel--Fact%20or%20Fiction.pdf Richard Roland Pelisson http://www.SaharaMet.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Pellisson,the best of hypocrisy
Mr. Fectay, we have still answered about these points (see below). But could you explain to the list why when people make a search on google.com with the french words : Mike Farmer meteorites illegales or Alain Carion meteorites illegales They arrive on your answer to a journalist at who you explain : http://www.maroc-hebdo.press.ma/MHinternet/Archives_575/html_575/4rue.html vous pourriez citer d'autres personnes qui, elles n'ont pas de preuves d'export: Mike Farmer (météorite lunaire d'un kilo), les frères Pellisson qui ont 500 Kg de météorites marocaines illégales, Alain Carion qui a des centaines de kilos de météorites du Maroc, etc. Nous attendons votre réaction avant de saisir l'avocat de notre société. Pour faire Valoir ce que de droit. Bruno Fectay Perhaps could you translate in English your answer to this journalist and share with the list your idea of what is the best of hypocrisy About our web page, when we see the misadventure which happened at Mike during his last trip, it's natural to ask the question : Who are these kind nomads who share the tea with him one day, and the other day drive at full speed in a military place to escape at a patrol with the risk to explode in a minefield or to be shoot by another patrol? What his the reason of their quick change of attitude when they have been discovered at 2 km of the Algeria border, near the mined wall? See Mike recent email, title : [meteorite-list] Morocco new fall news We had planned a careful search, but one of the Moroccans spotted a military patrol coming so we packed up quickly and fled. It is very flat there, nowhere to hide. They chased us for about 2 hours but we were too far ahead and they could not catch up, but it was close enough for meMike Richard and Roland Pelisson -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] We have put this web page explaining the situation of NWA meteorites for a good reason : http://www.saharamet.com/meteorite/data/Sahara/Nwa.html 1) the situation of terrorism is dramatic in Algeria and there is an open link with contraband. See these recent posts of Mike on the mailing with the title :Re: [meteorite-list] news from Algeria and [meteorite-list] Algeria : Yep, things are getting a little scary out in Islamland. Why anyone would go to Algeria I dont know. The Army of God terrorist group is still hacking people up there on a daily basis. Michel, are you suggesting that massacres do not happen in Algeria? Tens of thousands are dead over the decade. I can pull up hundreds of articles on the bombings, entire villages murdered etc. Mike 2) meteorites bought in Morocco are coming from Algeria, Libya and up to Egypt for their majority. It's the case of NWA 482 and 2046 of Mike for example. And for his recent trip, when we see that he has been driven right on the Algeria border to find the original seller... for us this seller seems coming from Algeria (nomads with their flocks don't live in a minefield... in the other case, after one week, there will be no more flock in live). 3) the potential for meteorite prospecting in Morocco is very limited and the border with Algeria is officially closed since 1994. For protecting Morocco from army groups coming from Algeria there's a double wall of earth created by bulldozer and mined : one million mines !!!. It's a military place where it's forbidden to go. It's what Mike has described in his recent trip with the title : [meteorite-list] Morocco new fall news .That is when the Moroccans told me that this was a military-only, prohibited zone, and that we were not allowed there! I of course got a little concerned (especially when we saw several mine-fields. We were driving cross-country at night with no lights, only by full moonlight, (not a safe thing in an old war zone where mine-fields are still around). The next morning we arrived at the tent of the nomad who found the pallasite. He led us there, over the berm and military fighting emplacements to the site, Algeria was only about 2 kilometers away...Mike So read our web page, you will see that it contains lots of things that dealers have still noticed. But it's sure that for us meteorites are also a world patrimony which could be protected under the UNESCO laws : http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2001/pdf/5150.pdf Just for comparison : 20 kg of Martian meteorites have been discovered in hot desert by systematic prospectors who share full documentation, photos, GPS localization... and only 3 kg have been discovered by NWA approach. Coordinates are important to find paired specimen, a world patrimony is lost. Richard and Roland Pelisson --- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[meteorite-list] SaharaMet : Point of view on NWA meteorites
We have put this web page explaining the situation of NWA meteorites for a good reason : http://www.saharamet.com/meteorite/data/Sahara/Nwa.html 1) the situation of terrorism is dramatic in Algeria and there is an open link with contraband. See these recent posts of Mike on the mailing with the title :Re: [meteorite-list] news from Algeria and [meteorite-list] Algeria : Yep, things are getting a little scary out in Islamland. Why anyone would go to Algeria I dont know. The Army of God terrorist group is still hacking people up there on a daily basis. Michel, are you suggesting that massacres do not happen in Algeria? Tens of thousands are dead over the decade. I can pull up hundreds of articles on the bombings, entire villages murdered etc. Mike 2) meteorites bought in Morocco are coming from Algeria, Libya and up to Egypt for their majority. It's the case of NWA 482 and 2046 of Mike for example. And for his recent trip, when we see that he has been driven right on the Algeria border to find the original seller... for us this seller seems coming from Algeria (nomads with their flocks don't live in a minefield... in the other case, after one week, there will be no more flock in live). 3) the potential for meteorite prospecting in Morocco is very limited and the border with Algeria is officially closed since 1994. For protecting Morocco from army groups coming from Algeria there's a double wall of earth created by bulldozer and mined : one million mines !!!. It's a military place where it's forbidden to go. It's what Mike has described in his recent trip with the title : [meteorite-list] Morocco new fall news .That is when the Moroccans told me that this was a military-only, prohibited zone, and that we were not allowed there! I of course got a little concerned (especially when we saw several mine-fields. We were driving cross-country at night with no lights, only by full moonlight, (not a safe thing in an old war zone where mine-fields are still around). The next morning we arrived at the tent of the nomad who found the pallasite. He led us there, over the berm and military fighting emplacements to the site, Algeria was only about 2 kilometers away...Mike So read our web page, you will see that it contains lots of things that dealers have still noticed. But it's sure that for us meteorites are also a world patrimony which could be protected under the UNESCO laws : http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2001/pdf/5150.pdf Just for comparison : 20 kg of Martian meteorites have been discovered in hot desert by systematic prospectors who share full documentation, photos, GPS localization... and only 3 kg have been discovered by NWA approach. Coordinates are important to find paired specimen, a world patrimony is lost. Richard and Roland Pelisson --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let us explain the French problem with B. Fectay/C. Bidaut Bruno Fectay and Carine Bidaut have sued us in March 2004 for libel. It is only a civil action between B. Fectay/C. Bidaut and us to claim for damages. Now we are also claiming for damages against them. It will take several months to the justice before to return a verdict. As you can imagine, nothing is illegally done in front of the court : private emails are not admissible. And nobody can be summoned to appear in a civil action. All the remarks and all the publicity which have been given to this affair are the consequences of this civil action. Regarding our web page on NWA meteorites, the French court decided in our favor: Il ne peut être contesté que le débat sur les lieux de découvertes des météorites est légitime et présente un intérêt scientifique. La même légitimité doit être reconnue pour les discussions sur le transport et les opérations commerciales relatives à ces météorites We hope that everybody can return to his passion. And we wish that those interested by the subject will wait for the official decision. And if Bruno Fectay has something to express why does he needs to write through N. Classen and not with his own email ? For those who want to know more about us and our work on Saharan strewnfields, you can browse our web pages: http://www.SaharaMet.com And our 2003 expedition on Mauritanian craters: http://www.saharamet.com/expedition/2003/craters.html Best regards, Richard and Roland Pelisson __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Pellisson, the end of a free meteorite hobby?
Let us explain the French problem with B. Fectay/C. Bidaut Bruno Fectay and Carine Bidaut have sued us in March 2004 for libel. It is only a civil action between B. Fectay/C. Bidaut and us to claim for damages. Now we are also claiming for damages against them. It will take several months to the justice before to return a verdict. As you can imagine, nothing is illegally done in front of the court : private emails are not admissible. And nobody can be summoned to appear in a civil action. All the remarks and all the publicity which have been given to this affair are the consequences of this civil action. Regarding our web page on NWA meteorites, the French court decided in our favor: Il ne peut être contesté que le débat sur les lieux de découvertes des météorites est légitime et présente un intérêt scientifique. La même légitimité doit être reconnue pour les discussions sur le transport et les opérations commerciales relatives à ces météorites We hope that everybody can return to his passion. And we wish that those interested by the subject will wait for the official decision. And if Bruno Fectay has something to express why does he needs to write through N. Classen and not with his own email ? For those who want to know more about us and our work on Saharan strewnfields, you can browse our web pages: http://www.SaharaMet.com And our 2003 expedition on Mauritanian craters: http://www.saharamet.com/expedition/2003/craters.html Best regards, Richard and Roland Pelisson - Original Message - From: Norbert Classen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: La Memoire de la Terre [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 6:38 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Pellisson, the end of a free meteorite hobby? Hi All, I'm forwarding this message on behalf of Bruno Carine. They are having problems to post to the list, and thus they asked me for assistance. Please read below. BTW, I believe their message to be of major importance to us all. We shouldn't allow a few rotten apples to spoil our hobby - so please read what Bruno Carine have to say since it affects us all, and a few of us, more directly. If you want to take action, please contact Bruno Carine in that matter. You may reach them via: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Best, Norbert -Original Message- Dear List Members, this subject is of high interest as it will affect all of us including the scientists. What the Pellissons are doing is just unbelievable, they already did contact the French interior Ministry as well as the Customs offices in different countries. They are linking the meteorite community to terrorism in different ways. They did send to major medias a 64 pages document full of crap with parts of YOUR private and public mails to try to establish that nobody but themselves have the right to sell meteorites!! Be aware than in a close future we will all have problems shipping or crossing borders with meteorites, thanks to them! Just try a Google search for money for terrorism and you will get straight to their page, listed in first place see it here: http://www.google.fr/search?hl=frq=%22money+for+terrorism%22meta= They are using metanames and cross linking with pages about horrible things just to attract interest on them. You all know that we did bring them to court, they already have been sentenced in emergency during the last Tucson show. Now we are driving them to serious things, we received their list of pseudo arguments from our attorneys. Here is the list of the people they are involving in front of the Judge and the Lyon's Court (the second biggest in France), they are using parts of your public and private emails to try to explain why meteorites (except of their own) are funding terrorism. Warning: be aware that these documents are used to prove that either you 100% agree with them and support their ideas or that you are involved in funding islamist networks.. Privates: Mr Bernd Pauli Mr Eric Twelker Mr Art Jones Mr Alain Carion Mr Michael Farmer Mr Michel Franco Mr Aziz Habibi Mr Nelson Oakes Mr Bob Verish Mr Greg and Adam Hupe Mr Tracy Latimer Mr Luc Labenne Mr Dean Bessey Mr Matteo Chinellato Scientists: Dr Zenda Dr Grossman Dr Barrat Dr Treiman Dr Huss Dr Gillet Dr Jambon Dr Bunch the whole Meteoritical Society the AMNH of New York the MNHN of Paris And this is only a resume of the thing, it would take days to translate the horrors they are building. As an example they are trying to explain that the MNHN of Paris did send Michel Franco to build a new network for funding Al Queda and they sent that to the French medias... What will be the next step? Child abuse? Drug traffic? If we don't stop them now be sure everybody will get in trouble because of the wonderful hobby we share: meteorites. As your names and private emails
[meteorite-list] NWA meteorites - money for terrorism?
NWA meteorites - money for terrorism? http://www.saharamet.com/meteorite/data/Sahara/Nwa.html 1 - NWA meteorites are undocumented stones "bought" in Morocco. 2 - There is no potential prospecting field in Morocco to supply this market. 3 - More than 95% of the NWA meteorites come from Algeria, Libya and up to Egypt. 4 - The border between Morocco and Algeria has officially been closed since 1994. Islamic army groups cross the border. NWA meteorites = contraband meteorites Some serious facts: - 2 of the 11 international terrorist organizations which have been target of the Bush government since September 11th live in Algeria: - GIA (Armed Islamic Group) - GSPC (Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat) - 30 Europeen hostages have been rescued from Islamic groups by a military attack between the Acfer and the Tanezrouf meteorite strewnfields in 2003. - Well organized smuggling rings act through the militarized no man's land between the two countries. - NWA meteorite contraband is still financed by private investors who prefer to stay "anonymous". - The track of the millions of dollars involved in this traffic is lost on the Algerian border. More info : http://www.saharamet.com/ Richard Roland Pelisson
Re: [meteorite-list] Saint-Severin, Chinga, Foote
Hello Rob, in the archives of the mailing you will find a mail from Michel Franco (link below). It's a document from the CEA (French Research Center) concerning the fall of Saint-Severin. We can add that this publication includes a calculation of the atmospheric trajectory, position of the different fragmentations and possible orbit. Trajectory : 282° W-NW eight fragments on 10 km TKW : 271 kg Orbital speed: 35.9 km/s Entry speed related to Earth : 14 km/s +or- 1.4 km/s First break point : - altitude : 15.3 km +or- 0.8 km - speed : 2.4 km/s +or- 0.3 km/s - incidence angle : 17.2° +or- 0.9° - abscissa from final 113 kg impact : 22 km +or- 2 km To obtain this document contact: Service Central de Documentation du CEA CEN-Saclay B.P. n°2 91190 GIF-SUR-YVETTE FRANCE Best Regards, Richard Roland Pelisson www.SaharaMet.com === original mail from Michel Franco http://www.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2001-April/003213.html [meteorite-list] Re: Small crater size info wanted Thanks ever present Bernd !I am proud to add to your list the Saint Severin fall (amphoterite LL6)27 june 1966 at 15 h 40 legal time in France) where 8 objects dug holes in our country: A) 113 kg fell on a calcarous cliff and bouced down on a path. B) 57.6 kg dug a 0.80 m dia hole at 0.50 depth C) 27.2 kg dug a 0.50 m dia hole at .040 depth D) 19.9 kg dug a 0.30 m dia hole at 1.50 m depth E ) 2.7 kg fell on a paved path F) 45 kg dug a 0.40 m dia hole ar 1.85 m depth G) 0.35 kg layed on the ground h) 5.2 kg was found at 0.70 m depth This fall happened in different soils which explains that the depth ofburial are not deeper when object louder. from La météorite de Saint Severin Recherche de la trajectoire atmosphérique et de l'orbite by Daniel Nordemann, Jacques Tobailem, Charles- Henri de LAssus St Genies CEA report CEA -R- 4045 Nov 1970 == Dans un e-mail daté du 01/02/02 05:49:10 Paris, Madrid, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : Saint Severin is only 40 years old, so there cant be much old documentation or artwork for that one. I may have the Holbrook information still. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: "Rob and Colleen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "meteorite-list" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 7:18 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Saint-Severin, Chinga, Foote Hello all- Three questions in one post. Does anyone have any info on the Saint-Severin fall, The Chinga find, or Foote documentation for Holbrook. On the fist two, I am looking beyond the MetCat information and am more interested in the fall/find info versus the lithology and metallurgy. Any old artwork on Saint-Severin? On Foote, anything would be great. Someone out there used to have a copy of Foote documents to go along with Holbrook sales but I forget who it was. Thanks in advance. -- Rob Wesel
[meteorite-list] SaharaMet, 2001 expedition photos
A new web page with photos of our October 2001 expedition: http://www.saharamet.com/expedition/2001/preview.html Hello, we don't know if we have the permission to discuss about serious meteorite prospecting work and results on this mailing. When we read Dean Bessey offensive comments, it seems that only NWA business is welcome. So as not to offend their sensibilities, please keep away emotional people, our new web page contains unbearable images of meteorites in situ. We have worse to tell you... we have collected data! Richard Roland Pelisson - SaharaMet
