Re: [meteorite-list] What are those blueberries on Mars?

[Mark Ferguson]

Hi Bjorn and List

They are interesting. Two things come to mind for spherical rocks. One, you
mentioned wind, and you might know theres an area where the rocks seem to
move and leave these curious "tracks" of they're movement across the ground.
It was finally found that wind moved them as it gusted across the area. So,
with the wind speeds possible on Mars, its very possible to tumble and wind
abrade things very well.
The other I thought of requires a body of water. In this also, a change
needed to occur so that oolitic type precipitation could form ( oolites are
small round carbonate balls formed as material precipitates out of solution
and  layers form increasing the size).
It is interesting and will be fun to learn what the rover says about them.
Mark

- Original Message -
From: "Bjørn Sørheim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 11:09 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] What are those blueberries on Mars?


> Hello List,
> I guess you all have seen those pictures coming from Mars at the
> the Meridiani Planum/Opportunity site.
>
> Embedded in, and eroding out of the bedrock in the sidewall of the
> 20 m crater where Opportunity is located, are those <5mm perfect
> spherical stones.
> They have a different colour than the finely layered matrix they sits in.
> The geologist Steven Squyers said that there were 3 theories about them
> among the scientists at JPL - the 3rd one, by now almost discarded:
>
> 1) They are concretions in the layered deposits, that formed slowly
>  after the deposists had been made, probably by water circulating through
>  them and slowly crystalizing.
> 2) They are balls made from molten material flung up in the atmosphere
>  either by volcanic eruptions or large crater forming impacts.
> 3) They are volcanic 'lapilli' formed as growing spherical balls from
>  ash coming out of an erupting volcano. Since these small balls (blueish)
>  as photographed by Opportunity, has a different color than the deposits
>  they are located in, this seems less likely.
>
> So what are your theories, any thoughts?
> Another theory: Could they be rock fragments rounded by the movements by
> the wind in fine deposits through millions of years at the surface?
>
> Link to picture:
> http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA05235.jpg
> http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/targetFamily/Mars (More pictures)
>
> Regards,
> Bjørn Sørheim
>
>
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>



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Re: [meteorite-list] Astronomers Suggest Comet To Blame for 6th-Century 'Nuclear Winter'

[Mark Ferguson]

Hi Sterling and list

It is interesting. The one thing you ommited about China though was that the
prince (or emperor) also said that a yellow dust was falling and could be
scooped up like snow (I think thats how it went). This suggested initially
that a event at Krakatoa dated to about that time occured. One interesting
thing to note is that there seems to be a correlation between impact events
and volcanic activity.
So, this could have been an event (the dark ages) fostered by an explosive
meteoritc entry or impact.

I like the fact that its effects can be seem in logs used for fortresses in
Ireland and elsewhere around the world which verify that there was a long
period of little growth in the trees.
Mark
 Original Message -
From: "Sterling K. Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Bernhard "Rendelius" Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astronomers Suggest Comet To Blame for
6th-Century 'Nuclear Winter'


> Hi,
>
> The "comet" theory is not new nor original with these researchers.
There
> is a book published 4-5 years ago by Baille (title now forgotten by me)
that
> advance the same explanation for the same phenomenon.
> The "bad years" of 536-540 AD are a world-wide event. In fact, it
seems
> to have been at its very worst in SW China, where according to the
> chronicles, "the sun was not seen for three years"! Crops failed totally,
> and everything was covered with dust a foot deep.
> This description has given rise to the alternative theory of these
> events, which is that there was a volcanic eruption of tremendous size and
> world-wide effect. The culprit that is advanced is Krakatoa, which did
have
> a massive early episode sometime between 500 BC and 1000 AD, one 10 times
> bigger than the 1883 episode.
> However strata from this earlier event are hard to find and none that
> have been found have been datable with any precision, so it remains only a
> possibility, but not a proven one.
> The greatest volcanic event of the last 500 years was "Tambora on the
> island of Sumbawa in Indonesia in 1815, a 13,000-foot volcano that belched
> f1ame and ash from April 7 to 12, 1815; and rained stone fragments on
> surrounding villages. It has been estimated that Tambora's titanic
explosion
> blew from 37 to 100 cubic miles of dust, ashes, and cinders into the
> atmosphere, generating a globe-girdling veil of volcanic dust."
> This produced "The Year Without A Summer" world-wide in 1816. For
> fascinating details, see: . Of course,
> the effects described in this fascinating piece of history could just as
> easily have been produced by a "insignificant" little 150-200 meter comet.
> At the time (1816), the cause was complete mystery (except to Benj.
> Franklin, who hypothesized the cause to be volcanic dust). Tambora was not
> identified as the culprit for almost a century (1913).
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
> --
--
>
> Bernhard \"Rendelius\" Rems wrote:
>
> > I mean, do they offer some PROOF for their theory? A "plume" is nothing
> > that would have gone unobserved by the eye (left alone a comet exploding
> > in the sky) - and as much as I know, the "mini ice age" at that time
> > wasn't a global occurence, but rather a european one - at least to my
> > knowledge. There has been a second "mini ice age" around 1500 in Europe,
> > and this is either attributed to the Maraunder solar minimum or the
> > change of the gulf stream.
> >
> > Bernhard
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron
> > Baalke
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 5:39 PM
> > To: Meteorite Mailing List
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Astronomers Suggest Comet To Blame for
> > 6th-Century 'Nuclear Winter'
> >
> > Contact: Dr Derek Ward-Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 029-2087-5314
> > Cardiff University
> > February 3, 2004
> >
> > Astronomers unravel a mystery of the Dark Ages
> >
> > Undergraduates' work blames comet for 6th-century "nuclear winter"
> >
> > Scientists at Cardiff University, UK, believe they have discovered the
> > cause of crop failures and summer frosts some 1,500 years ago - a comet
> > colliding with Earth.
> >
> > The team has been studying evidence from tree rings, which suggests that
> > the Earth underwent a series of very cold summers around 536-540 AD,
> > indicating an effect rather like a nuclear winter.
> >
> > The scientists in the School of Physics and Astronomy believe this was
> > caused by a comet hitting the earth and exploding in the upper
> > atmosphere. The debris from this giant explosion was such that it
> > enveloped the earth in soot and ash, blocking out the sunlight and
> > causing the very cold weather.
> >
> > This effect is known as a plume and is similar to that which was seen
> > when comet Shoemaker-Levy-9 hit Jupite

Re: [meteorite-list] Finding Bits Of Mars On Earth

[Mark Ferguson]

Hi Charlie and List

My understanding of the Antartica treaty was that it was set up so that it
would not be governed by any one country or owned as it were.
The presence of scientific groups and zones is to further science now,
though it originally gave a presence by the various countries. This insured
that no one country had the upper hand and could say it had sole presence.
Therefore, there are no "laws" governing movement as such and passports
would only be needed for countries through which one would travel through
territorial waters during the voyage.
There are cruises which travel to Antartica and have a geologic interpter on
board giving lectures as they go south as well (I saw a flyer looking for
applicants to such a job last year at school).


Mark
- Original Message -
From: "Charlie Devine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "magellon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Finding Bits Of Mars On Earth


> Dear Adam, Norbert, Ken and list:
>
> Adam, what you're saying is what I was told as well.  But it was
> certainly a revelation to me, until I asked myself "who would prosecute
> an INDIVIDUAL if he or she collected meteorites in Antarctica?"  And I
> guess the answer is indeed nobody!  But, I was also told that
> individuals from private expedition cruises were doing the collecting.
> I have no idea how close to the coast any meteorite fields may be, but
> while expensive, Antarctic cruise prices seem to be within financial
> reach of many people, and not just those for who $50,000 is a pittance.
> I checked a few websites for Antarctic cruises and several do arrange
> for smaller groups of 15 people or less to travel inland as far as 3-4
> hours will take them to camp out.  This can hardly amount to a serious
> "threat" to the scientific parties down there.  I imagine any list
> member contemplating going on such a cruise would want to check the
> exact geographic itinerary of these cruises and pick one that might be
> more interesting then others.  As for the ethics, I'm conflicted about
> it, but that's par for the course for me.  Legal it is.
> Regards,
> Charlie
>
>



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[meteorite-list] My mistake

[Mark Ferguson]

List, I'm sorry. I didn't intend for the picutre to 
show in the message. In the future, I will only post links.
 
Mark

[meteorite-list] membrane box modifying

[Mark Ferguson]

Greetings list
 
A couple weeks ago, there was a thread about using 
waterhose washers to contain dust and particles in a membrane box. Great idea, 
but most of those washers are darker colored. 
Last week I was re-introduced to seal-tite flexible 
conduit which uses a nice bright yellow washer for a seal. These would contrast 
nicely against all meteoritic material and I do know that seal-tite distributors 
will sell bags of these washers. I took a scan to show and have attached it for 
any caring to see.
Mark
<>

Re: [meteorite-list] EBay analysis (preliminary)

[Mark Ferguson]

One item not mentioned about this survey of yours Jamie, is the tax angle,
which may be the biggest reason anyone would be against it. Public knowledge
is a powerful tool in the right hands.
Personally, I think its a great idea. It will reflect trends and help
marketing strategies. It will also point those using meteorites as an
investment, like precious metals and gemstones, to which are the best to
invest in.
The legal angle about bots and data collecting is often a gray zone. Much
like the ability to build a receiver for any kind of transmission, but the
minute you disseminate any information you've received, you can be charged
under law. So is it illegal to make and own a receiver? No, but the use of
that receiver is where it gets gray. So to would this use of a bot. Its
kinda like recording a movie and later selling it at a garage sale. You can
watch the movie, they usually don't beef if you watch your recording. But
when you sell it, or even loan it, for some reason they call that pirating.
The other point is gathering information from a website. Is it copyrighted?
Even when its an auction and changing often? Curious stuff in the least.

Mark


- Original Message -
From: "Jamie Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] EBay analysis (preliminary)


> Listees,
>
> Thanks for the many comments.
>
> As I warned, the results are preliminary.  One prominent seller
> pointed out important omissions in my data (items sold via "Buy
> It Now" in particular).  I'm debugging and rerunning.
>
> Since there is sufficient interest and since the reports are not
> small, I'll set up a little Web page for future results.  Stay
> tuned for a pointer.
>
> It'll be fun to look at data over time.
>
> --Jamie
>
> Jamie Stephens wrote:
>
> > Listees,
> >
> > On the dealer/collector spectrum, I'm at the collector end.
> > I haven't yet sold any meteorites (but I do need to thin
> > out my collection a bit).  Anyway, I am interested in the
> > meteorite market dynamics.  It's fun.
> >
> > Targeting Ebay, I exercised some software tools I have.  I
> > looked at completed "Meteorites, Tektites" category completed
> > sales from 2003-10-10 to 2003-10-25 (the data that Ebay
> > keeps easily available).  Here are some interesting stats:
> >
> > [CAVEAT: I haven't thoroughly validated these results.  Please
> > consider them preliminary.]
> >
> > Items ended: 2036
> > Items sold: 1035
> > Number of unique sellers: 169
> > Number of unique winners: 413
> > Number of unique bidders: 815
> > Total sold: $57,951.60
> > Most expensive item sold: $6,736.00
> >
> > More data below.  I plan to start collecting data over time to
> > see trends.  If you're interested in the result, let me know.
> > I'll post if there's sufficient interest.  I'm mostly interested
> > in the "demand side".  Are more people bidding on meteorites?
> > What else are they bidding on?  Etc.
> >
> > Of course, I'm only looking at EBay -- as opposed to the large
> > number of direct deals that I can't see.
> >
> > Some folks might gripe that I'm invading privacy.  Yes?  If
> > so, lemme know.  I can obfuscate identities.  But folks can
> > still figure out the identities from the EBay data.
> >
> > Please remember the caveat above, and send my any comments
> > or questions.
> >
> > --Jamie Stephens
> >
> > Top 20 sellers making the most money:
> >
> > seller   | # trans |  usd
> > ---+---+---
> >  cometshop |47 | 10634
> >  finmet|70 |  7436
> >  meteoritehunter%40comcast.net |80 |  4584
> >  meteoritemarina   |17 |  3619
> >  a.chondrite   | 6 |  2145
> >  mr-meteorite  | 6 |  2132
> >  flattoprocks  |30 |  1956
> >  meteoritelab  |   108 |  1937
> >  katy2kary |35 |  1710
> >  meteoritehunters  |47 |  1374
> >  17jack-anthony|10 |  1141
> >  meteoriten| 8 |  1044
> >  illinoismeteorites|12 |  1025
> >  paolo2000 | 7 |  1018
> >  3281958   | 2 |  1005
> >  meteoriteusa.com  |22 |   940
> >  meteorflash   |79 |   808
> >  svassiliev|18 |   736
> >  meteoritesandmore |63 |   628
> >  litig8nshark  | 6 |   516
> > (20 rows)
> >
> > Top 20 bidders spending the most money:
> >
> > bidder   | usd  | wins
> > -+--+--
> >  nickelironmonkey| 6787 |2
> >  dbgbogey| 2065 |2
> >  cat_berlin  | 1848 |3
> >  peterutas%40aol.com | 1630 |1
> >  aggiemwd| 1525 |1
> >  pangeogem   | 1447 |3
> >  meteorpassion   | 1032 |   16
> >

Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Eucrite, absolutely the strangest ever seen!

[Mark Ferguson]

I have to apologize to everyone, was totally 
thinking of a conglomerate and not a gabbro. Thats what happens when your busy 
web surfing for sources of information on other topics. I am oriented towards 
opal and such, and I will mix terms in my head often (big problem when I took 
tests). Again, I'm sorry.
 
Mark

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Michael Farmer 
  To: N Lehrman ; Mark 
  Ferguson ; tett 
  
  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 9:20 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW 
  Eucrite, absolutely the strangest ever seen!
  
  Excuse Friggin me, I am not a geologist, nor a 
  great typist. Any other criticisms?
  Mike Farmer
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
N Lehrman 

    To: Mark Ferguson ; tett 
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 8:25 
PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW 
Eucrite, absolutely the strangest ever seen!


Mark & others,
 
This is totally absurd.  Look up "gabbro" if you can 
spell it.  Then write.
 
Norm (an earth geologist that doesn't make up new 
definitions---)

  - Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  Mark 
  Ferguson 
  To: tett 
  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 7:49 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW 
  Eucrite, absolutely the strangest ever seen!
  
  Hi Tett and list
   
  A gabro is a collection of individual rocks 
  (they don't have to be the same kind of rock either) welded or held 
  together by some cemmenting substance. Here on earth, the cemment can be 
  cristobalite, opal, limestone, stiltstone, and many other items. A cemment 
  with rock in it is a manmade gabro. So, gabroic infers that it is like a 
  gabro.
   
  Mark
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
tett 
To: Michael Farmer ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 
4:14 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW 
Eucrite, absolutely the strangest ever seen!

What the heck does Gabbroic 
mean?
 
Took a look at the images on your web 
page.  Sure is one cool looking meteorite
 
Mike

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Michael Farmer 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 
  6:49 PM
  Subject: [meteorite-list] NEW 
  Eucrite, absolutely the strangest ever seen!
  
  I have finally got a classification that 
  I have been waiting two years for. It is NWA 1925, a new Gabbroic 
  Cumulate Eucrite. This sucker is the strangest meteorite I have seen, 
  we did not know what to think when we cut it. Likewise the scientists 
  have been having a fit with it. It is unlike any known eucrite, large 
  crystals up to 8mm of Plagioclase and Pyroxenes. 
  Read the data for yourselves. I have a 
  little for sale, and that is it. 
  Grab it now, Ted Bunch said that it is 
  one of the most interesting meteorites that he has ever seen. 
  
  It is listed on my website. 
  I also hope to get the India webpage up 
  later tonight. 
   
  Mike Farmer
  www.meteoritehunter.com

Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Eucrite, absolutely the strangest ever seen!

[Mark Ferguson]

Hi Tett and list
 
A gabro is a collection of individual rocks (they 
don't have to be the same kind of rock either) welded or held together by 
some cemmenting substance. Here on earth, the cemment can be cristobalite, opal, 
limestone, stiltstone, and many other items. A cemment with rock in it is a 
manmade gabro. So, gabroic infers that it is like a gabro.
 
Mark

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  tett 
  To: Michael Farmer ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 4:14 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW 
  Eucrite, absolutely the strangest ever seen!
  
  What the heck does Gabbroic mean?
   
  Took a look at the images on your web page.  
  Sure is one cool looking meteorite
   
  Mike
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Michael Farmer 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 6:49 
PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] NEW Eucrite, 
absolutely the strangest ever seen!

I have finally got a classification that I have 
been waiting two years for. It is NWA 1925, a new Gabbroic Cumulate Eucrite. 
This sucker is the strangest meteorite I have seen, we did not know what to 
think when we cut it. Likewise the scientists have been having a fit with 
it. It is unlike any known eucrite, large crystals up to 8mm of Plagioclase 
and Pyroxenes. 
Read the data for yourselves. I have a little 
for sale, and that is it. 
Grab it now, Ted Bunch said that it is one of 
the most interesting meteorites that he has ever seen. 
It is listed on my website. 
I also hope to get the India webpage up later 
tonight. 
 
Mike Farmer
www.meteoritehunter.com

Re: [meteorite-list] NWA is Far Better Than Antarctica

[Mark Ferguson]

Hi Rafael and list

The only way that NWA's will gain in this debate is if the collecting nomads
do as the out country collectors do and file the location with the finds
when they sell them or submit them for naming. Problem is, as many know,
these people live on very little a year, and these rocks provide them with
much needed extra income. They aren't about to disclose that for fear of
others raiding the spot.
So, now the question becomes; How can we, as a group, help these people
protect their sources and still provide us with a location so that science
benefits?

Mark
- Original Message - 
From: "Rafael B. Torres" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA is Far Better Than Antarctica


> Hello everyone
> I think this is the eternal question since NWA arrived, what is better NWA
> or Antartic meteorites???.The answer???...it depends. What I
personally
> think is that there is no better, nor worst, after all they are meteorites
> and meteorites come from Space. They were born in the same place with the
> very same material, though not all meteorites had the fortune to fall in a
> white place covered by ice, what I meant is that not all meteorites had
the
> fortune of falling in a place where only scientists would fully uncover
> their secrets. Meteorites didnt have the choice of choosing where to fall,
> nor humans as picking the house to be borned...does that make a human
better
> than other???, just because one was borned in a huge house and another was
> born in the street? The same is with metoritesthey are all the
same
> and have the same information there are no better nor worst.
>
> Then, where does the path separate to tell what is better and what is
> worst?...Only when we, humans, interact with them.  I think there is the
> absolute answer (above), but two perspectives: The scientists and reduced
> budget collectors. Scientists would like meteorites to fall only in
> Antartica and I thanks meteorites for keep on falling in North West Africa
> =) after all we can touch rocks from Space at lower prices and thus enjoy
> beautiful expensive specimens from Antartica and other locations...
>
> Rafael Blando Torres
> Space Collection 2001
>
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>
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Re: [meteorite-list] oriented nose cone glorieta

[Mark Ferguson]

Hi Harlan and list
 
Many times flow streams show eddie currents, little 
whirls within the stream caused by minute differences in flow rates. One part of 
the surface being bumpier than an adjacent area would be enough to cause 
such a whirl pattern
 
Mark
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  harlan 
  trammell 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 8:00 
  AM
  Subject: [meteorite-list] oriented nose 
  cone glorieta
  
  
  i don't know why i keep buying these things, but i have an addiction to 
  glorieta. i think it's 'cuz of how the main mass got found by steve in this 
  remote location. but i just got another off ebay. that is supreme. it has that 
  blue fusion crust and it is a nosecone all the way with a 360 degree blow-over 
  cornice around the nosey part. but the flow lines are NOT radial but are 
  spirally in nature looking exactly like a crop circle corn pattern. what 
  causes this ? whay are the flow lines not radial like all other oriented 
  irons? pix available on request.
  
  Need more e-mail storage? Get 
  10MB with Hotmail Extra Storage. 
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Re: [meteorite-list] A Letter change title to "a shut in's life"

[Mark Ferguson]

Hi Bill

I myself, answer some questions, and do so often without replying through
the list. I will endevor to post those to the list in the future.
Mark
- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Tom aka James Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Letter change title to "a shut in's life"


> Tom,
>
> I've noticed that as well. I havn't graphed it yet but I'd say that at
least
> 75% of all newbie questions, asked of the list, get blown off. But talk
about
> a muddy rock on ebay goes on for days! Where is the real concern? Genuine
> sharing is not always forthcoming for many obvious reasons.
>
> Bill Kieskowski
>
>
> > David,  They say Americans do not get enough fiber in their diets, That
> > could be it, I am going to eat a bowl of Cheerios right now! : )
> > Thanks, Tom
> > Peregrineflier <><
> > The proudest member of the IMCA 6168
> > - Original Message -
> > From: David Freeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: Tom aka James Knudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; almitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 8:23 PM
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Letter change title to "a shut in's
life"
> >
> >
> > > Dear Tom, and List;
> > > It must be Mars proximity, the war, season's change, the world series.
> > > All crabby-appleton's, don't be such a bunch of shut in's and give the
> > > list and your emotions a break. Go for a walk even.  Try more fiber in
> > > your diet, geese, what ever works for you, works for me.
> > > Encouragement to carry on "as is"!  Hell, the stock market is
basically
> > > good, be happy.
> > > It MUST be five o'clock somewhere!
> > > Dave F. :-) :-) :-)...hell,  I just joined the AARP, I should be
> > > sad! Let's eat more oatmeal, every day.
> > >
> > > Tom aka James Knudson wrote:
> > >
> > > >Hello List, I happen to love the list, but I have noticed something.
If I
> > > >post something about ebay,  I get A LOT of responses, some agreeing,
but
> > > >most telling me to stop posting things not pertaining to meteorites.
I
> > > >happen to think Ebay is a huge part of our hobby, but I will no
longer
> > post
> > > >anything about ebay for the good of the list.
> > > >  But what I find funny, is when I do post something meteorite
related,
> > such
> > > >as a question, I am lucky to get a few responses, if any!  So, what
is it
> > > >the list members want? I would bet all of the longest treads are
about
> > non
> > > >meteorite related subjects!
> > > >
> > > >Thanks, Tom
> > > >Peregrineflier <><
> > > >The proudest member of the IMCA 6168
> > > >
> > > >- Original Message -
> > > >From: Matt Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >To: almitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 5:51 PM
> > > >Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] A Letter From Blaine Reed
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>There it is. Blaine said it for me.
> > > >>matt
> > > >>
> > > >>-Original Message-
> > > >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
almitt
> > > >>Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 6:39 PM
> > > >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >>Subject: [meteorite-list] A Letter From Blaine Reed
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>Hi list,
> > > >>
> > > >>Blaine has asked me to post a message he has been trying to get to
the
> > > >>
> > > >list
> > > >
> > > >>for two
> > > >>days in regards to the recent fighting. Since he has no internet
access
> > I
> > > >>have agreed
> > > >>to post his remarks. I am simply putting this on for him and
responses
> > can
> > > >>go to the
> > > >>list but I hope all this will die down now. Blaine in my opinion is
a
> > > >>
> > > >super
> > > >
> > > >>sharp guy
> > > >>and has a better feeling for the meteorite market than most people.
I
> > > >>
> > > >think
> > > >
> > > >>listening
> > > >>to his good advise is wise. All my best to everyone.
> > > >>
> > > >>--AL Mitterling
> > > >>
> > > >>From Blaine:
> > > >>
> > > >>ENOUGH ALREADY,
> > > >>
> > > >> All of these ridiculous threats, accusations and ego battles must
stop.
> > > >>They are
> > > >>destroying the hobby! Every time there is some kind of flare up on
the
> > > >>
> > > >list,
> > > >
> > > >>I get
> > > >>phone calls from collectors asking to be dropped from my customer
list
> > > >>
> > > >(and
> > > >
> > > >>from the
> > > >>number of long term collectors I no longer hear from I suspect many
more
> > > >>
> > > >are
> > > >
> > > >>taking a
> > > >>more passive route to the same ends). When I ask why, they have all
said
> > > >>
> > > >the
> > > >
> > > >>same
> > > >>thing; "I am no longer collecting meteorites". They tend to say that
it
> > is
> > > >>no longer
> > > >>fun or enjoyable. When pressed further, they have pointed to the
list
> > for
> > > >>their new
> > > >>found distaste of meteorites. While this may be well and fine for
some
> > of
> > > >>us, as often
> > > >>t

Re: [meteorite-list] Matteo's Challenge Answered

[Mark Ferguson]

- Original Message -
From: "E.J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Matteo's Challenge Answered


> Randy, All,
>
> I agree that new technology will help overcome this identification issue
> of micro particles.  In predict a day of a hand held mineral mass
> spectrometer where I can hike from boulder to boulder zap it from
> several feet away and get a readout of it's composition!
They already exist. The little rover on Mars had one and years ago, there
was a small tabletop rig, Just don't remember the make.

Mark



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Re: [meteorite-list] Re: [meteoritecollectorsassociation] Intermission/Membrane Box Finding

[Mark Ferguson]

they have many styles, maybe they have flat o-rings now as standard stock
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ""Mark Ferguson"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re: [meteoritecollectorsassociation]
Intermission/Membrane Box Finding


> Hello Mark
>
>   I would suggest instead of "O" rings a flat washer type ring would be
better as the dust would be less likely to hide under the edge of the ring.
>
> Eric Olson
> http://www.star-bits.com
>



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Re: [meteorite-list] Re: [meteoritecollectorsassociation] Intermission/Membrane Box Finding

[Mark Ferguson]

Hi Howard and list
 
I like this idea very much. I noticed the problem 
but hadn't taken time to worry and answer since I had more pressing things to 
contend with.
What I would like to mention is that the Apple 
Rubber company in NY (no, they aren't that kind of company) make all sizes of 
o-rings and are especially noted for the manufacture of silicon o-rings in just 
about any color you can think of including a translucent uncolored one. It might 
be a great idea if we got a group together and bought a minimal amount of the 
clear o-rings to do just as Howard has suggested for the dust and 
specks.
I would have to do a search on them, but I'm sure I 
could find them on the web (I don't have access to the Tomcat books 
anymore).
Let me know if theres an interest for 
this.
Mark

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Howard Wu 
  
  To: Mike Groetz ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 12:36 
  PM
  Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: 
  [meteoritecollectorsassociation] Intermission/Membrane Box Finding
  
  Thankyou, Mike, for comfirming a riddle I've had about membrane boxes for 
  sometime. I too have been curious about the small migration of dust into the 
  bottom of these boxes. And I thought I was the only one. I'm now been using #2 
  capsule inside this boxes for the rarest of the rare.
   
  Howard WuMike Groetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Good 
Morning-   Lets take a break from the email battles going 
on(I'm tired of them and just zapping without opening)and let me 
tell you about a neat membrane trick Ifound.   Recently I 
purchased about 1/10th of a gram ofJohnstown in dust and crumbs. They 
came in a vial,which looked good, but I thought in one of 
Mr.Hartman's membrane boxes would look much nicer.   So I 
carefully poured them into the center of oneof the small boxes, spread 
them to about 3/8" diameterand gently put the lid on 
tightly.   Then I held it up to admire my work and it all 
slidSouth within the box.   I emailed Mr. Hartman and 
he was kind enough totype me back with a note that the boxes were 
notreally designed for crumbs and dust. Generally 1/8" orlarger 
pieces work best. There is also a small venthole in the membranes to 
relieve the pressure whencoupling which the crumbs can fall 
through.   So I came up with this idea. I poured the 
crumbsand dust back into the vial and got a new approx. 5/8"OD/ 3/8" 
ID faucet "O" ring washer, laid it in thecenter of the membrane and 
poured the vial back withinthe washer. Then reapplied the 
lid.   I held it up and it was wonderful The crumbsand 
dust stayed in place within the "O" ring and yetspread out enough to see 
the assortment of fragments.   Another neat thing is if you 
lay the membrane boxflat and lightly tap it, the dust goes to the 
bottomand the crumbs to the top.   It may be simple but 
this really made my day. I maytake a photo of it with the engineering 
camera at worktomorrow- if anyone would like to see it- email me 
offlist and I would be happy to send it to you.   Everyone 
have a nice Sunday. Maybe we can talk somemeteorites and collecting on 
the list today.Take care,Mike GroetzIMCA#8474 (And proud of 
it!)    __Do you 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Bessey Specks and aphasia

[Mark Ferguson]

HI steve and List
 
Steve, I cannot help but wonder at what you went 
through. I t truely must have been a period that you felt very detached from 
your former self and being partly inmobil must have compounded the whole thing. 
But I did enjoy that story and how you had not lost your ability to ponder 
things even if the knowledge you once had was locked away from you. Thats a plus 
and it, I'm sure has led you to your current state of recovery.
Well done and I glad your back with us, at 
least to help educate me.
Mark

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Steve 
  Schoner 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 4:22 
  PM
  Subject: [meteorite-list] Bessey Specks 
  and aphasia
  
  
  
  


  



I was looking at my meteorite shelf and found two little specks in 
a container.  Here is something that amuses me, as these brought 
back a lot of memories.
 
For those of you who do not know, I nearly died and was in a coma 
in the hospital last January.  I was in ICU and rehab for over a 
month.
 
I received many, many letters from all of you from all around the 
world wishing me the best recovery.  (At the initial moment the 
doctors were certain that I would not recover at all).
 
Well one package came to me while I was in the Rehab unit suffering 
from the aftermath of this very rare condition that overtook me.  
It was a package from Dean Bessey up in Toronto.  It had a very 
nice note, which was read to me as I could not read due to the aphasia 
that was affecting me by one of the nurses at the time. .
 
Any demand on me at that time that involved conceptualizationaton 
was beyond me.  It was very frustrating.
 
Then the nurse said, "Oh, there is a container in this 
package?"  
 
Low and behold, it was a tiny round plastic container with two very 
tiny specks
 
Aphasia is a very odd state of mind to be in.  Words mean 
nothing in print.  A printed page was as unreadable as if it were 
written in Russian.  And not only that, putting together even the 
simplest concepts was way beyond me.  It was so bad, if the nurse 
asked me what one plus one was I could not give her any meaningful 
answer.
The nurse then held it up to my face and showed me the two tiny 
specks, and asked me "What are these?"Well, that 
question perplexed me as well.  I had absolutely no idea 
what those two specks were.  I didn't even know that they were 
meteorites let alone regular earth dust.I mean, I did not even 
know what Bessey Specs were, and neither did the nurse.  She 
was just as mystified about what those specs were as I was in 
my aphasic state of mind.She left the letter and jet 
pack on the counter next in my hospital bed where I could reach 
them.  Many times I reached over with my left hand, as my 
right side was completely dead,  for that small plastic container 
with those two tiny specs.  And for hours I 
 tried  to figure out what it was.
It make no sense at all.
Then my wife came and saw the package and the container.  "Oh, 
someone sent you something?"  I could not talk then, and only 
acknowledged with a nod.  She then read the letter again, but it 
gave no clue as to what the specks were, or why they had been 
sent.  My wife did not know.  Then she looked into the jet 
pack and found a card that said:
  "Sayah Al Uhaymir 90  Meteorite from the Planet Mars 
found in Oman. TKW 94 grams, but these are likely paired stones."
Then it was followed by Bessey's address.
Then she said, "Are those two tiny things in there meteorites? 
 Those are not 94 grams.  Maybe there is sample in all of 
the packing inside the container."  She attempted to open it 
as I watched, but was thwarted by the tape on the outside of the 
container.  She could not open it so put it back.   
Rehab meetings got our attention and I was put into a wheel 
chair for therapy.
When I got back to my hospital room later in the day, 
that container mystified me again.  I picked it up and looked 
at it for quite some time.   I'd put it down, completely 
degraded conceptually, and then later pick it up again, and 
try to figure it out again..  
I remembered Dean Bessey but could not remember that he sold 
"specks"  even though I had one (two very tiny ones) in my 
hands. 
Well, I have said all of this and related this story to say, that I 
do have two very, very tiny Bessey Specks" in my collection.  And I 
   

Re: [meteorite-list] Matteo's Challenge Answered(was India #2)

[Mark Ferguson]

Hi Steve and List

Steve, I am surely not trying to start an arguement, and all people on the
list respect your opinions, but I would like to address and question your
comments.

> How do you know, other than the reputation of the
> seller behind it?
Isn't this exactly what the IMCA is trying to establish, authenticity of
meteorites sold and traded and the reputation of its members?

> It is not just an issue with Matteo, but ANY one that
> sells such specks.
So, if someone cuts a specimen for whatever reason, the crumbs from cutting
should be tossed because you don't feel they can be authenticated to your
satisfaction. The fact that the person cutting it and selling the crumbs
makes no difference to you because that person isn't trustworthy and has no
reputation.

> To determine the authenticy of such one would have to
> destroy the specimen.
I think this is not the case any longer with the ion probe, but then, I'm
not a scientist, I just have graduated with my undergrad degree. I do know,
personally, that non-destructive testing can be done on larger pieces in XRF
as long as a relatively flat surface is available and that non destructive
analysis by XRD is possible using a few grains and vasiline, and these tests
provide a fair representation of the results obtained using the destructive
tests, and that they are using an ion probe to analyse extremely small
particles of cosmic dust, again, non-destrucively I believe, but they don't
elaborate on technics, they just publish data and pictures.

> And even then, questions might remain.
This is true, but it also used to be that measurements between mass
spectrometers on the same material would result in differing values. This
was a fact at least until the 1980's and may still hold to some extent that
no two machines will yield the same results. So, what are you saying then?
That unless an analysis is done on a machine, you won't believe it?  So,
then, maybe you can explain NWA 869 and UCLA's attempts to classify it, and
how you would deal with such inconclusiveness.

> So, my prefrence is that I will not buy any such
> specks and if I do only in the form of legit thin
> sections so that the minerology of such can be
> confirmed via optical and or microprobe means.

So, thats your choice and you have the means to purchase what I cannot.
So, I have a collection of specks that I believe are what the sellers says
they are. And I sell the extra to fund my collection. I have no other means
to purchase these exotic and hard to get meteorites.

What Matteo does is his, and those that deal with him, business. Don't
impose his practices upon others for it implies that if one meteorite
dealer/collector does something, then all must do that. And I'm sure that
your not saying that because Matteo does some things, and people have issue
with him over it, that all dealers or collectors are the same way. But, it
sure sounds that way.
>
> Steve Schoner/ams
>
>
Mark



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Re: [meteorite-list] Possible Ebay Solution re: Policeman etc.

[Mark Ferguson]

Good question and a good suggestion.
One of the problems with ebay is they do not allow links to any pages that
also have sale pages on the same site. They want exclusive market. You can
link from your "me" page though, but that doesn't help the newbie as most
don't have a clue about how to get around ebay well.
Linking to your auctions from your website is ok, it brings in money to
ebay.
What we could do is see about a meteorite chat board on ebay. They do help
the new and unknowing with problems. I'll write them and see.
Mark
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 4:23 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible Ebay Solution re: Policeman etc.


> Good evening list,
>
> Been a while since I threw in my 2 grams worth on a subject. Tom, and
others,
> you bring up a good points with regards to size of meteorites and cost
> relation, etc. It seems to me that meteorite auctions are a bit trickier
to post
> than say, Wedgewood china, Waterford crystal, etc. Again you are still at
the
> mercy of the seller, in that fake china pieces abound, but for the most
part, the
> seller sometimes will have closeups of Mfgr / markings, artist signatures,
> etc. We in the meteorite community don't have that benefit.
>
> I for one would like to see a dealer, if the desire moves them, to offer a
> modestly priced meteorite "Sampler Box" to newbies jsut looking into
getting
> this hobby. I don't mean 10 or 25 samples, but maybe 3, i.e. an iron, an
ordinary
> chondrite, and possibly  a piece of inexpensive pallasite. Along with the
> samples would obviously be information about meteorites, and meteorwrongs
for
> that matter. Keeping the price low, and advertising it as "Starter" kit
would
> allow persons who don't have any idea what to look for, or any knowledge
about
> meteorites, a new beginning. I still have a few of Ninninger's starter
kits and
> have been surprised (considering all of the Ebay consternation) no-one has
> tried to duplicate Ninninger's sample/ starter kit.
>
> If the cost factor is a problem, just offer one sample. At least a newbie,
> unwisely putting a bid on an obvious piece of slag, (and possibly a large
bid)
> won't get burned. If the newbie chooses to ignore an offering of an
educational
> "Sampler Box" and opts for the "big one"...well that's their choice. As is
> said in the Indiana Jones movie: "He chose unwisely".
>
> As it is now, some bidders don't know about IMCA, or possibly don't care.
The
> "Meteorwrong" pages that some members offer are EXCELLENT. The question
is:
> how do you get a newbie to go to it? And would the pages translate from
the
> meteorwrong page back to the Ebay page? It may be very confusing to the
person
> just introduced to this science.
>
> Anywho.   Feedback???
>
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>
>



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Re: [meteorite-list] eBay policemen?

[Mark Ferguson]

Thanks Dave

I liked the way you phrased that. I have been bypassing some of the posts
for the more interesting and informative ones like Mike's and Atul's. My
minor was anthropology, so I find hearing about India interesting. Its also
a look into what can be expected when one travels for any reason. When one
travels abroad, searching for meteorites or just for pleasure, one really
needs to keep in mind (and an open mind at that) that you will often leave
the "western" world behind and enter into a civilization that is so
different that its hard to comprehend. I wish I had the fore-sight when I
was younger to search for meteorites when I was overseas. But I enjoyed
those far away lands all the same. This list has opened the world up for me
again and although I do travel and camp a lot here in the northwest, its not
the same as being in a non-western country.
I would like to hear of some of the other major meteorite hunting peoples
exploits in distant lands. Maybe, if they read the list, they will post some
of their travels and enlighten those less fortunate or willing. I find that
as much fun as the meteorites they find and buy.

Mark


- Original Message -
From: "Dave Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "metlist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 11:01 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] eBay policemen?


Hi,
I have to throw in my 2g's worth here - seems that some people on the list
spend too much of their time trawling eBay looking for auctions to criticise
and debunk and publish their 'findings' to the list.
Fine in principle, but we are not here to police eBay - I think that "Caveat
Emptor" should prevail here.  If anyone is naive or stupid enough to spend
thousands of bucks on a so-called 'meteorite' and from a supplier who doesn
t sport the IMCA label then so be it.

Like a lot of people, I find the exceptional ripoffs very funny and I am
quite happy to have my attention drawn to it, but on the whole these
auctions for faux meteorites are all a bit sad, desperate and not really
funny.

Seems to me that every Metlist digest I get now has a "look at this eBay
auction..." gleefully pointing out some stupid ad - Can I suggest that
perhaps one could spend one's time better employed?


frustratingly frustrated!


dave


IMCA #0092

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Re: [meteorite-list] hunting, A good subject!!!!

[Mark Ferguson]

Only if there was an attachment to native Americans, kinda like petroglyphs
in that sense. It becomes important to the archaeological community and the
native peoples. If its found with no tie to a known or possible religious
significance, then it could be treated like any other find.
I just wouldn't want to find one in Florida (or any state that has adopted
similar laws). Since the Mel Fisher brew-haha over sunken treasure, Florida
has laws which allow them to take any find of historical or scientific
nature and its very hard to win against a state in their own courts.
Mark
- Original Message -
From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mark Ferguson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] hunting, A good subject


> Very interesting! I live in an area full of Indian history, but they are
> stuck in a reservation 40 miles north of here. I have to wonder if you
found
> a meteorite on BLM land that has no current Indian ties, would there be
any
> problems?
> Thanks, Tom
> Peregrineflier <><
> The proudest member of the IMCA 6168
> - Original Message -
> From: Mark Ferguson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Tom aka James Knudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: meteoritelist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] hunting, A good subject
>
>
> > Hi Tom and list
> >
> > I did some research on meteoritic iron for a paper in college and its
> > interesting to note that in some cultures the stones were revered and
some
> > even were buried with rituals while irons were often used for knives. I
> read
> > that the Cape York iron was found (analysis done matched the material to
> > Cape York) as far as 2200 Km from its impact site. So, meteoritic iron
was
> > well traded. This also was found for an iron from Kansas which was found
> as
> > far away in Hopewellian earth structures on the Ohio River. This may
only
> > apply to irons which were found and not observed to have fallen by
ancient
> > peoples since the observed falls tended to be treated differently.
> > So, if one is hunting for meteorites which were placed in special spots
by
> > native Americans, I would research the ancient trade routes, and if any
> are
> > found, you then have to report it, and, you must then leave it as found
as
> > an artifact which is covered under laws for native peoples and let
> > professional archaeologists study it before anything is disturbed. Its
> > almost a sure bet that it will then either be attached as a find by the
> > university that the archaeologist works for or!, it, being on native
> lands,
> > would have to be reported to the tribe which has jurisdiction over that
> land
> > for further investigation.
> > Mark
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "meteorite-list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:10 PM
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] hunting, A good subject
> >
> >
> > > Hello List, On to a better topic!
> > >   I read that some Glorietta individuals where found on the top of a
> hill
> > > and it was determined the Indians had placed them there as some type
of
> > > ritual or something.
> > >   If you live in a area with a history of Indians, would it be wise to
> > hunt
> > > peaks?
> > >
> > > Thanks, Tom
> > > Peregrineflier <><
> > > The proudest member of the IMCA 6168
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>



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Re: [meteorite-list] hunting, A good subject!!!!

[Mark Ferguson]

Hi Tom and list

I did some research on meteoritic iron for a paper in college and its
interesting to note that in some cultures the stones were revered and some
even were buried with rituals while irons were often used for knives. I read
that the Cape York iron was found (analysis done matched the material to
Cape York) as far as 2200 Km from its impact site. So, meteoritic iron was
well traded. This also was found for an iron from Kansas which was found as
far away in Hopewellian earth structures on the Ohio River. This may only
apply to irons which were found and not observed to have fallen by ancient
peoples since the observed falls tended to be treated differently.
So, if one is hunting for meteorites which were placed in special spots by
native Americans, I would research the ancient trade routes, and if any are
found, you then have to report it, and, you must then leave it as found as
an artifact which is covered under laws for native peoples and let
professional archaeologists study it before anything is disturbed. Its
almost a sure bet that it will then either be attached as a find by the
university that the archaeologist works for or!, it, being on native lands,
would have to be reported to the tribe which has jurisdiction over that land
for further investigation.
Mark

- Original Message -
From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "meteorite-list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:10 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] hunting, A good subject


> Hello List, On to a better topic!
>   I read that some Glorietta individuals where found on the top of a hill
> and it was determined the Indians had placed them there as some type of
> ritual or something.
>   If you live in a area with a history of Indians, would it be wise to
hunt
> peaks?
>
> Thanks, Tom
> Peregrineflier <><
> The proudest member of the IMCA 6168
>
>
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] Too many List Big Brothers!!!!

[Mark Ferguson]

Hey, ya know, thats kinda how I felt about the reports I had to do in
school. Reword this, I don't like that.
And, of course, don't even get go to the gramatical errors that always seems
to become bigger than the rest of the print when the prof saw it.


- Original Message -
From: "Dave Schultz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 7:46 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Too many List Big Brothers


>   Is it just me, or is there anyone else on the list
> that feels as if we are all being watched by Big
> Brother. Geez, don`t use the wrong wording or heaven
> forbid list something that isn`t quite kosher to some
> list members on eBay. Sorry if I`m offending anyone,
> but give it a rest people!!! Sometimes I feel that
> this list is becoming one big Spanish Inquisition!!!
>
>  Dave IMCA 2725
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] India

[Mark Ferguson]

Hi Mike and list

Mother Theresa made it her home, must have some redeeming qualities,
somewhere, maybe
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 7:28 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] India


> hello all, from Calcutta, the nastiests and most horrible city on the
planet without  doubt. i will be in the strenfield today, but there is
terrible flooding here right now, so it may take a day or two to ascertain
anything.
> hopefully, the next message will be to tell how many kilos of the new fall
i have:)
> Mike Farmer
> ps
> This one may finally do me in, I hope i can survive this place.
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] New Orleans fall PHOTOS

[Mark Ferguson]

If thats a translation program, the people who 
wrote the code need help themselves, eh?
Maybe if they stuck that babelfish in their ear, 
they'd learn something.
oh, was that off topic?
 
sorry
Mark

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 8:29 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Orleans 
  fall PHOTOS
    [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  I may think you are the most sour grape in Italy. I would have 
commented in your pigeon english but I can't figure it out. I don't 
speak a word of Italian but it seems you intentionaly used mumbo jumbo 
talk for some vested reason. << Tell me that 
  I'm wrong >>I think you're wrong.  My guess is that Matteo 
  uses babelfish or transalation.com or some similar translation 
  site.  One enters a message in one's "first language", has it translated, 
  and then cuts, pastes, and sends it along.  These sites of necessity 
  pretty much translate very literally, and one word at a time, thus the larger 
  context almost always comes out convoluted.I can't remember ever being 
  in the position of defending Matteo before ;-)  but until we 
  English-speakers can do better in Italian than he can in English, with or 
  without a translation website, I think it takes a pretty fair amount of nerve 
  to launch linguistic rocks so near a glass 
  house.   
Gregory

Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone - Example from Sweden

[Mark Ferguson]

Hi Robert
Not sure I have close to all the answers, but metal, free metal, in a
limestone, can only be from a few select sources. One, the first to mind, is
vents such as black smokers. But, here we have high temps, a corrosive
environment, and no discoloration of the limestone from other vent
chemicals. Not a likely source. Second to mind are some very nasty bacteria
which excrete free metals while digesting rock for nutrient, and are a
possible source for gold and silver crystals (least thats some peoples
thoughts). Next to mind is the free iron found in basalts, not basalt in the
limestone, doubtful then that is the source. Iron and nickel, which shows a
Widmanstätten pattern, cannot be from any of these sources and is not known
from any terrestrial souce to date. Best guess would be a impactor and the
metal nuggets are splash ejecta which landed on a reef or in a oolitic
environment and got encapsulated as the limestone was buried.
Mark
- Original Message -
From: "Robert Szep" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 9:19 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone - Example from Sweden


> Hello Paul and list...
>
>
> I have found IRON NODULES in ~500 million year old limestone and know
where
> to find more.
> They are rather smooth and not, repeat NOT badly 'rusted'.
>
> The limestone surrounding the small pocket left behind after removing the
> metal-object shows some discoloration but only in very close proximity to
> where the nodule was.
> The metal in this limestone is far from abundant but then again I didn't
> hammer my way through any major amount of host material. At the time I
> thought the dense, roughly 1/2 inch nuggets might be meteorites but
figured
> the odds were slim.
> After reading your posting I realized the odds might not be nearly as slim
> as I originally considered them to be.
>
> Here is my question to you and the 'list'...
> When a small metal object is found in ~500 million year old limestone,
what
> are the chances of that object being a meteorite?
>
> Replies to this posting, if any, should be interesting.
> If the consensis is better than 50/50 I might collect a few specimens this
> weekend.
>
>
> Best regards, Robert Szep.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:40 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Unconventional Meteorite Hunting - Example from
> Sweden
>
>
> >
> > It seems like there are some unconventional places
> > that people can look for meteorites. For example,
> > ancient meteorites have been found in the carbonate
> > rocks of Sweden as discussed in:
> >
> > Schmitz, B. Peucker-Ehrenbrink, Lindstrom, M., and
> > Tassinari, M., 1997, Accretion Rates of Meteorites
> > andCosmic Dust in the Early Ordovician. Science.
> > vol. 278, no. 5335, pp. 88-90.
> >
> > In this paper they discussed "Abundant fossil
> > meteorites" that were found in "...marine,
> > condensed Lower Ordovician limestones..."
> >
> > They note:
> >
> > 1. A 4-inch in diameter meteorite discovered
> > middle Ordovician Limestone in 1951, which was
> > described by Thorslund and Wickman (1981).
> >
> > 2. a swedish meteorite , called "Osterplana 1," which
> > was discovered in 5-million year older Lower Ordovician
> > limestone about 300 miles away from the above by Hansen
> > and Berstrom (1997).
> >
> > Twelve more meteorites have been found at the Thorsberg
> > Limestone Quarry. Hansen and Berstrom (1997, pp. 3)
> > stated:
> >
> > "A 10-foot-thick section of the
> > Holen ("Orthoceratite") Limestone,
> > of Early Middle Ordovician age, is
> > extracted at the Thorsberg quarry
> > and sawed into thin slabs that are
> > used for windowsills and floor tile.
> > Quarry workers discarded slabs with
> > impurities, such as the meteorites,
> > until Professor Maurits Lindstrom
> > of the University of Stockholm
> > alerted them to save such slabs.
> > The 12 specimens were recovered
> > between 1992 and 1996. Ten of the
> > specimens were recovered from a
> > 2-foot-thick bed of limestone and
> > may represent a single meteorite
> > fall. The other three specimens were
> > recovered from two separate levels
> > above this layer. Seven of the
> > specimens, collected between 1993 and
> > 1996, are from a quarried limestone
> > volume of no more than about 127,000
> > cubic feet. Most of the specimens are
> > now on display at the Stiftelsen Paleo
> > Geology Center in Lidkoping, Sweden."
> >
> > The meteorites found in the Thorsberg Quarry meteorites
> > range in size from about 0.5 to 3.5 inches in diameter.
> > They have been almost completely replaced by calcite and
> > barite. The meteorite masses are dark reddish brown and
> > look like iron nodules surrounded by a zone of lighter
> > colored limestone.
> >
> > It would be fun to look at correlative condensed sections,
> > in the United States and elsewhere for similar fossil
> > meteorites. If there 

Re: [meteorite-list] Green Glassy Stone

[Mark Ferguson]

Greetings Robert and list
 
Seems this came up last year and the one seller, on 
their website said that the analysis was a volcanic in origin, but still sold 
them as tektites or moldavites.
Mark

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Robert Szep 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 12:19 
  PM
  Subject: Fw: [meteorite-list] Green 
  Glassy Stone
  
   
  - Original Message - 
  From: Robert Szep 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 3:16 PM
  Subject: Fw: [meteorite-list] Green Glassy Stone
  
  Hello Thomas & list. 
   
   
  There are Tsavorite GARNETS and what are called 
  Tsavorites which are being referred to as tektites.
   
  Both are found in the same region but are two 
  different things. 
   
  The Garnet formed in matrix and has a 
  crystaline structure. The green glassy stones do not display any 
  crystal-structure and do not appear to have formed within any type of matrix. 
  
   
  One ebay seller specifically mentions that he is 
  selling Tsavorite Tektite which is not to be mistaken for Tsavorite 
  Garnet.
   
  The common naming and coloration shared by both 
  materials creates confusion between the two. 
   
  One of these two types of similar things contain 
  tiny air-bubbles... 
   
  Guess which one... 
  it's not the Garnet... 
   
   
  R. Szep
   
   
  - Original Message - 
  From: Thomas Webb 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 1:57 PM
  Subject: [meteorite-list] Green Glassy Stone
  
  Hello list,
  The guy with the ebay ad does not call his stone Tsavorite.  He only 
  uses this term to describe the COLOR of the stone he is selling.  He 
  even goes on to say that Tsavorite is a green garnet, which is 
  correct.   He does however call the stone a tektite.  Perhaps 
  someone can clarify the truth or non-truth of this proclamation.
  My best,
  Thomas H. Webb
  
  
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  New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search 

Re: [meteorite-list] Serious question?

[Mark Ferguson]

 I think the list has taken this thread well 
and answered a lot of the questions. It is interesting how terminology can be 
misunderstood, such as oxidation, its just not only rust!
But,I think the most perplexing question has that 
of classifications. Since the researchers are somewhat divided as of yet on some 
classes as to where they should be placed or categorized, it makes for a lively 
topic. And I'm sure as equipment becomes more refined and techniques to define 
minerals become larger in numbers, those classes will become even more a subject 
of debate. Right now we have  isotopes on one side and physical mineralogy 
on the other and often they clash, or so it appears to me, and one is usually 
favored over the other for a definitive ruling on where a meteorite falls within 
a class. The other measure used is metal content. And this puzzles me somewhat 
as metals are a later forming element ( even though I've heard that some 
physicists consider any element other than Hydrogen or Helium a metal). And 
require some fractionation to occur before they are evolved out of solution. 
That it takes a sun to form before the heavier elements are even formed. This 
brings up the Aluminum isotopes used for initial heat of early planitismals. 
When is it formed and how is it formed so early on? And why is only the Aluminum 
isotopes ( Al26 I think) a source of internal heat mentioned. This is one of the 
things I haven't read about ( having only read Dodd, Wasson, Sears and one other 
that I just can't remember how his name is spelled but its like Ramdhor or 
something about opaque minerals in meteorites) and maybe that's what I need to 
read, so if someone on list knows of a book which covers the formation of basic 
elements a little better in how and when they formed early on, I catch up on the 
big picture. 
 
Have enjoyed these topics very much and thanks to 
all for contributing
Mark
 
 
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Howard Wu 
  
  To: Mark Ferguson 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 11:47 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Serious 
  question?
  
  Thanks Mark,
  I guess my point was it a big planet. Mars and the moon aren't puny 
  either. Lots of different mineralogies if you could get a closer look. 
   
  So lets go...
   
  Howard WuMark Ferguson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote:
  



Different rock types Howard, Yosemite is 
granite batholith, Zion is sandstone

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Howard 
  Wu 
  To: mark ford ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 
  11:53 AM
  Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Serious 
  question?
  
  When I go into Yosemite the cliffs are grey. When I am in 
  Zion they are red. Go figure? 
   
  Howard Wumark ford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote:
  On 
a similar note ... why is the Lunar surface Grey and Mars red ifthey 
are both resurfaced by meteorites, likewise wouldn't we expectother 
rocky bodies/planets to be red too especially those with a 
thinatmosphere? Surley the only process that would turn meteorite 
dust intored soil is oxygen or WATER ??Any 
thoughts?Mark Ford.-Original 
Message-From: Tom aka James Knudson 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 16 September 2003 
05:56To: meteorite-listSubject: [meteorite-list] Serious 
question?Hello List, Scientists are now thinking that mars is 
red from meteoritedust, right? They also say tons of meteorite dust 
are landing on earth,right?I was wondering if the black iron 
stuff we get on our magnets when wedrag them through the dirt could 
me meteorite related?Thanks, TomPeregrineflier 
<><The proudest member of the IMCA 
6168__Meteorite-list 
mailing 
list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list__Meteorite-list 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Denver

[Mark Ferguson]

Hi All
As much as I wanted to make Denver, a job of 
suitable means has yet to appear and so I have to hope Tucson will be 
possible.
Have fun and hope to meet some of you people after 
the new year.
Mark

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Michael Farmer 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 10:54 
  AM
  Subject: [meteorite-list] Denver
  
  Hello everyone, I will fly up to Denver on 
  Wednesday and stay until Sunday. I have a new Cell Phone # for use up there, 
  it is 520 730 4754. If anyone wants me to bring any specific item, please let 
  me know. 
  Who else will be there? 
  Mike Farmer

Re: [meteorite-list] Are chondrites sedimentary rocks?

[Mark Ferguson]

Hi List

I just have to comment on this. Sedimentary rock, in any definition found in
geology and petrology books is matter which is laid down by either wind or
water, then compacted over time into a durable rock. This is not how
chondrules formed. Chondrules most likely are a coalescing of minute liquid
droplets into larger droplets which is very different from the sedimentary
process. It would be more accurate to liken it to the formation of a
chondrule to that of a rain drop, but that might well be to simple a process
to adequately describe chondrule formation since there are some high
temperatures  and very different pressures indicated . But to use
sedimentation is not even close. Totally different mechanisms are involved,
that much is sure. For anyone to use totally different processes and
mechanisms is wrong for that only corrupts a new persons attempt understand
meteoritics.

Mark

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 2:51 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Are chondrites sedimentary rocks?


> Martin wrote:
>
> > In the interview, Ebel makes two comments that made me wonder...
> > First, he mentions that "Most meteorites are pieces of asteroids.
> > A very few are comets."
>
> > My question is which "very few"? I figure the usual suspects are Orgueil
> > and Murchison, but some comet experts I have talked with discount them
> > and all other meteorites as being of cometary origin.
>
> .. do not forget Tagish Lake and to some extent Krymka (see David Weir's
> comments on Krymka on his website: " ... This material is enriched in
volatile
> siderophiles such as Ag, Tl, and Bi, and represents a late condensate from
> a metal-depleted region of the solar nebula, possibly related to cometary
> material."
>
> > The second thing that caught my eye was when Ebel said, "Chondrites are
> > really sedimentary rocks made up of dust and then chondrules, these
round
> > droplets that were once molten and now are little beads, many containing
> > glass, which were present in the solar system."
>
> He may have read O.R. Norton's comments in Joel Schiff's magazine:
>
> NORTON O.R. (1998) Are chondrites sedimentary
> rocks? (M! Feb. 1998, Vol. 4, No. 3, pp. 22-23).
>
> > My question here is if chondrites can
> > really be considered sedimentary rocks.
>
> The only references I have about sedimentary meteorites:
>
> TOMEOKA K. et al. (1997) Evidence for early sedimentary
> processes in a dark inclusion in the Vigarano CV3 chondrite
> (Meteoritics 32-4, 1997, A129).
>
> TOMEOKA K. et al. (1998) Arcuate band texture in a dark inclusion from
> the Vigarano CV3 chondrite: Possible evidence for early sedimentary
> processes (Meteoritics 33-3, 1998, 519-525).
>
> BRIDGES J.C. et al. (1998) Traces of Martian sediment in Nakhla
> and other SNC meteorites (Meteoritics 33-4, 1998, A023).
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Bernd
>
>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] Elma status

[Mark Ferguson]

Hi List, Charles 
I would think that all of this is relevant 
information for future meteoritics and other physical sciences. And, my guess is 
that there will be some masters or doctorial papers resulting from these small, 
curious items. The fact that some little analysis has been done would be to 
verify the worthiness of the items for such research. They would have to show 
enough "strangeness" to warrent a research project.
This is something profs are always looking for to 
further education and give students new and unusual items to fathom and pry 
information from.
I too, would like to see some classifications get 
done in a more timely manner, but I also support educational 
endevors.
Mark

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Charles R. Viau 

  To: 'Pekka Savolainen' ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; 'Meteorite-list 
  Meteoritecentral' 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 10:38 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Elma 
  status
  
  
  Pekka, 
  Robert Verish and Robert Matson 
  had some excellent comments on this, and I wanted to comment back to 
  each…
   
  For Pekka,
      
  Thanks for sharing that data. The chemical analysis looks somewhat 
  similar to what I have been told , but does 
  vary.  Some people I have talked 
  to thought that the total absence of MgO and MnO were just as strange. Some said 
   that these were also 
  common impurities in slag, especially in minerals related to Ilmenite, and the ratio’s and streak did not match. Also, 
  the physical characteristics of the individual pieces seemed to have a very 
  thin, even coating of the glass and that a slag would most likely be 
  homogenous or glass on one side with material on the other… who knows.  It is real strange and I think that 
  what bothers the analysts the most is that they cannot explain how it was 
  made.  I think an electrical or 
  plasma mechanism is really interesting and wonder if 
  there is even enough existing data on such phenomena to help them there as 
  well. I also hope that the resulting analysis won’t require a PhD in petrology 
  to decipher… J 
  
   
  For Robert M and 
  Robert V,
      
  I agree that there should be a priority for those that have worked so 
  hard and have material in a queue to be examined. I wonder if the analysts 
  themselves are really kind of their own boss, and perhaps take on what they 
  feel is easy to disprove first, and then get wrapped up in the enigma of 
  trying to prove just what it is when it cannot be easily explained. And/or it 
  was the immediacy of the Elma event, the story content and the speed in which 
  samples were available to them…In any case, the NWA thing has hurt a lot of 
  research and NASA should never have shut the doors on domestic researchers 
  that have finds that have been properly documented. What they needed to do was 
  put someone in charge of clearing these finds from the NWA imports based on 
  the documentation and credibility of the finders.
   
  Thanks,
  Charles, IMCA 
  4351
   
   

Re: [meteorite-list] Image of Mount Vernon on Ch4 NEWS

[Mark Ferguson]

Well, at least its a more believable pastime than watching for UFO's in
small country towns...snicker
But one has to wonder at the education level of reporters, must rank up
there with museum officials, ya think?

- Original Message -
From: "Robert Verish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Meteorite-list Meteoritecentral" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 8:13 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Image of Mount Vernon on Ch4 NEWS


> -- Forward Message 
>
> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 08:01:16 +0400
> From: "Andrei Ol'khovatov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: (meteorobs) US TV on  a "meteorite fall"
>
> http://www.komotv.com/stories/26636.htm
>
> -- End 
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Wrong from Washington

[Mark Ferguson]

Hi Adam and List
Sure looks like the rocks one finds in the river canyons up this way.
Nothing terribly unusual though. Its even close to me, within an hour or so.
I'm not an expert, but it does sound like some wayward missile launched by
kids just to see how far one can throw things. my friends and I did that
often enough when it was boring.

Mark


- Original Message -
From: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 2:04 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Wrong from Washington


> Dear List Members,
>
> It looks like a trend is starting to happen here, yet another meteorite?,
I
> don't think so.  I saw pictures of this rock a month ago and in my opinion
> it is not a meteorite.  Here is a newspaper story link:
>
> http://www.skagitvalleyherald.com/articles/2003/08/13/news/news01.txt
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Collecting Ban

[Mark Ferguson]

Hi Steve and List
 
Steve thats so true. But, by the same token, those 
who introduce or lobby for bans on fossil or meteorite are sometimes those most 
ignorant of the items themselves and are glory seekers.
Just ask Mel Fisher's family what credentials the 
museum curator had who took Fisher to court forcing Florida to back him in 
saying the treasures Fisher found belonged to Florida. Or, how much of a world 
class paleontologist is the museum curator who started the T. Rex Sue lawsuit. 
They were both out for the kudos, since they couldn't and wouldn't profit 
personally from their actions, or would they?
Ask a world class expert in either field how 
much they depend on the amateur collectors for new finds. Doesn't matter if that 
amateur is a dealer or not. Only that they bring new material to the attention 
of the scientists.
 
Mark
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 1:26 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite 
  Collecting Ban
  Hello List,What is so hard to understand about 
  this?Let's not forget that the science of meteoritics is big 
  business.  Well, not big by Microsoft or American Airlines standards, but 
  compared to collecting it sure is.  I was given a number a couple years 
  ago that $12,000,000 a year is given out in grant money to study 
  meteorites.It is hard to put a handle on how many dollars of 
  meteorites are sold in the collecting field to the END consumer.  Let's 
  not count the same $5 specimen over and over again as it gets sold and traded 
  to dealer after dealer 6 times then to ebay a few times before getting to a 
  collector as if it were $50 in sales.  Researching meteorites pays a lot 
  more each year than all the dealing or field hunting pays.The point is 
  that if a Canadian Meteorite crosses the border and a researcher in the US 
  gets it, the US institution that researcher works for gets the grant money and 
  NOT the Canadian Institution (or researcher who gets the pay check from said 
  institution).  This of course goes for any other country that 
  lets a meteorite get out.  However, I have not heard too many complaints 
  from the Libyan Meteoritical Society about them losing jobs because they can't 
  get grant money from NASA, because a DaG SNC slipped across of their 
  borders.  Folks, it is always about the money.If an 
  attorney is writing a paper on it, ask who is paying him to write the 
  paper?  Or ask who is he wanting to see his "advertisement" so someone 
  might hire him in the future as "the foremost legal authority on 
  anti-collecting?"  Either way, it comes back to money.  I mean come 
  on, do we really believe that he is spending this time because he feels a 
  moral obligation to devote his life to correcting this major injustice is our 
  modern society?I think it is politically incorrect for a scientist to 
  stand up and speak up for the collecting community, so it is hard to know how 
  many support us, and how many really don't.  But I have asked around, and 
  I have yet to find one single researcher who bashes dealers and field 
  collectors for "only being in meteorites for profit" who also endorses their 
  paychecks each week and donates them back to the institution they work for. 
  Is this the kettle calling the pot black or what?As far as I 
  know, Art Elhmann at T.C.U. is the only scientist that has been actively 
  contributing to the science who is working for free.  I mean, he is 
  getting a pension, but I don't think he makes anything extra for doing what he 
  has done these last few years in helping our science.  And even if he did 
  make more money, that is OK, the point is that he is one scientist who 
  supports us.  Even Jeff Grossman, who most of us really appreciate what 
  all he does for us, is hesitant to even take a side on this issue!  Can 
  we blame him?It seems most researchers might only be in meteorites for 
  the money too.  Could it be that they want as big of the $12,000,000 pie 
  as they can get?  If they can squeeze out some their competition, and get 
  a monopoly on the money game of meteoritics, then maybe their jobs will be 
  more secure?  If only they could squeeze out the collectors and also 
  squeeze out researchers in other countries, then they can keep more money for 
  themselves.  But if evil field collectors, smuggle their future pay 
  raises out to researchers in other countries, then that is "bad for 
  science."  Don't get dragged off on the rabbit trail of "what is 
  best for science."  We all KNOW what is best for science.  So do 
  they.  They are just hoping their legislators (fellow government 
  employees) won't look deep enough to see the greed behind their requests and 
  add the bill to some Farm Subsidy Bill on page 634.  And if their fellow 
  government employees DO see through their requests, maybe a "wink and a nod" 
  will get it pas

Re: [meteorite-list] yea, you wanna talk rare?...

[mark ferguson]

awh, they just can't decide if its meteorite or just
old fruit in the fruitcake
--- harlan trammell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

-
try claxton, ga. 

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Re: [meteorite-list] Volcano Bombs & Impact Breccia Identification

[mark ferguson]

Hello Mark and List

Bombs are typically highly vessiculated magmas. What
you may be thinking of are ejected "old" magmas which
are ripped from the walls of a volcanic vent and would
have shapes that are irregular if not just plain
blocky. These differ from bombs in that they are from
previous events and may be breciated magmas, and that
becomes then a problem to determine origin other than
terrestrial. Bombs on the other hand, will usually be
of freshly melted material and can be very frothy in
texture as well as having aerodynamic forms. Both
types can occur in an eruption, but I'd expect ash to
be the more common found with old magma ejecta.
Mark
--- Mark Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> March 31, 2003
> 
> Greetings Meteorite Enthusiasts!
> 
> I may not have found an actual space rock yet, but I
> have strong suspicions that I did when it deals with
> impact crater material.  Keep in mind these are rock
> pieces found in end moraines deposited by glaciers,
> since there is no bedrock near my location as far as
> 
> I know.  
> 
> This is where I need to ask the questions:
> 
> 1. Are volcano bombs commonly found in Michigan and
> are they ever mistaken for impact breccias?
> 
> 2. Also, are there any good clues that distinguish
> terrestrial breccias from the impact created ones?  
> 
> Thank you again for everyone's help!  I hope you all
> are continuing to keep finding those black "Park
> Forest" rocks!  It just so happens that one of the
> pictures I saw of one reminds me of the black melt
> veins seen in the Rose City H5 chondrite.   
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Mark Fox
> Newaygo, MI USA
> 
>  
> 
> 
> __
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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorwrong ?

[mark ferguson]

Hi Tom

Had you thought of a volcanic bomb? These are ejecta
which can travel some distance before hitting ground,
depending on the strength of the eruption.
Do a search on google.com under volcanic bombs and
you'll get a lot of returns which have great photos.

Mark

--- Tom aka James Knudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Hello List, My mother in law said she had a rock she
> found in OK. that looks
> just like my meteorites. Indeed it did, But its not
> a meteorite, I do not
> know what it is. It looks to have a thin crust, it
> is not attract a magnet
> in the slightest. It does not look like any slag I
> have seen. It seems to be
> made of natural material.  What weird is it looks
> like it was melted and
> poured down a small hole in the ground. I feel like
> it could have been made
> by a lightning strike. I live in a very volcanic
> area and am getting to know
> volcanic rock pretty good and does not look it at
> all. Any ideas of what
> this can be???
> Thanks, Tom
> The proudest member of the IMCA 6168
> 
> 
> 
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[meteorite-list] site

[mark ferguson]

Greetings List
I have my new (old ) website running, and while I'm
still trying to get ftp to work, I have most of my
site back up online (it was down as I changed site
hosts and thats why my email changed)if anyone is
interested in opals. I tried to include a lot of
detailed information and it took a while, but now,
many opal dealers have followed suit and started
adding to their sites as well. You can visit it at:
www.imagineopals.com 


Thanks
Mark


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Re: [meteorite-list] Slikensides ?

[mark ferguson]

Hi Tom and list

Tom, slickensides (my books spell it differently than
European books) are a feature on a rock face left by
movement of rock against it. Sometimes its smooth,
sometimes not. Most commonly seen at sites of traverse
faulting where the rock on each side of a fault grind
against each other. Its a geological term of which I'm
sure you've seen too many already. A good book to have
at your side sometimes if a dictionary of geological
terms.
Hope this helps a little
Mark
--- Tom aka James Knudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Hello Good List, I now know how Slikensides came to
> be, thanks to all the
> experts that hang around this list! BUT, I still
> have not figured out what
> you are talking about? What is a Slikenside? Some
> one asked;
> 
> > > > I am looking for information about SLIKENSIDE
> formation.
> > > >
> > > > Does they come from a shock in the cosmos or
> do they form when landing
> on Earth ?
> 
> But no one has said what they are!
> 
> Thanks, Tom
> The proudest member of the IMCA 6168- Original
> Message -
> 
> 
> 
> From: John Divelbiss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Bill Mason III <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Michel
> Franco
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Meteorite List
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 9:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Slikensides ?
> 
> 
> > Bill,
> >
> > Thank you for this informative response. I have a
> nice chunk of Zag that
> has
> > one surface that looked like a slickenslide...but
> I've had doubts because
> it
> > looked smooth/polished, and I was thinking these
> subtle striations should
> be
> > grooves with edges. Not the case by your answer.
> >
> > If I can get a good picture of it this weekend,
> I'll send it to Jeff in
> > Australia and see if he'll put on his site. Thanks
> again for clarification
> > for all of us.
> >
> > John
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Bill Mason III" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Michel Franco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> "Meteorite List"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 12:29 AM
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Slikensides ?
> >
> >
> > > Michel,
> > > Perhaps I can give you an insight into just
> what "slickensides" are
> > all
> > > about. A slickenside is a fault surface or
> fault-plane which exhibits
> > > movement and dislocation,frequently
> warped,broken,and frequently offset.
> > > When you see a true slickensides it is polished
> because the sliding
> > surfaces
> > > are under great pressure as they move slowly,
> opposing surfaces are
> > polished
> > > and often striated grooved.
> > > If you are thinking of impact structure you
> will most likely find
> > > evidence of directional striations as in a
> dynamite exposition but you
> > will
> > > not see the polishing as evidenced in
> slickenside.
> > > Bill Mason
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Michel Franco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "Meteorite List"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 1:00 AM
> > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Slikensides ?
> > >
> > >
> > > > Dear list
> > > >
> > > > I am looking for information about SLIKENSIDE
> formation.
> > > >
> > > > Does they come from a shock in the cosmos or
> do they form when landing
> > on
> > > > Earth ?
> > > >
> > > > Any detail will be appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Thank's in advance.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards
> > > >
> > > > Michel FRANCO
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __
> > > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
>
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
>
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > >
> >
> >
> > __
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
>
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> >
> 
> 
> 
> __
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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Contest, Free Gao-Guenie

[mark ferguson]

Hello Mark and List

Wow, cool answers so far, all of them. Mark, you
should be able to put together a really cool program
for those children.
 So, for my entry:

Meteorites are cool because everyone in the world can
see a meteor blaze through the sky an wonder where it
might hit and how long has it traveled to get here.

Meteorites are kewl cause they are a window into the
past and the formation of our solar system from which
scientists learn how the sun, moon and the earth (and
other planets) were formed.

Meteorites are kewl cause Mark Bostick and the Hupe
Brothers have neet contests about them that make even
the best of the best realize that just by looking at a
rock, you cannot be sure of what it really is.

Well, I tried (the last was for levity).

Mark Ferguson

--- MARK BOSTICK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello Everybody,
> 
> I havent done a meteorite contest in a little while
> so, without further
> delay..
> 
> Meteorite Contest #8?
> 
> The prize in this contest is a free Gao Guenie,
> 13.4g with 95% black crust.
> Smooth on all sides but one, almost an oriented
> shape.
> 
> I am going to be doing a few school presentations
> here soon and the most
> comment thing I here from kids on meteorites is
> "Cool!".  So, with that in
> mind.
> 
> The Winner of this contest will complete the
> following sentence.
> 
> "Meteorites Are Cool Because."
> 
> This is close to the African Meteorites are cool
> contest but different in
> the fact that it is more broad and therefore should
> have quite different
> answers.
> 
> E-mail your answers to the list, no limit on how
> many words you use, the
> contest expires next Tuesday, all decisions final,
> and e-mail any questions.
> 
> Mark Bostick
> Wichita, Kansas
> 
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Re: [meteorite-list] nitol

[mark ferguson]

Hi Desmond and list
Some time back it was posted that ferric cloride (a pc
board etchant avail at radio shack and electronics
suppliers) works well.
Mark
--- Desmond Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> hi, all,
> 
> I got some suspected iron meteorites.  I want to try
> to etch them.
> Does anyone know other easy methods to etch instead
> of using nitric acid?  I find it difficult to buy
> nitric acid and quite danger to handle myself.
> 
> Could anyone tell me other methods? Any existing
> spying chemicals or solutions that I can buy easily
> and less harmful?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Desmond
> 
> 
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system
> (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.455 / Virus Database: 255 - Release
> Date: 2003/2/13
> 


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[meteorite-list] oxidation

[mark ferguson]

I was watching discovery channel this evening and saw
something that just would have never occured to me. It
seems, that when something oxidizes, it gains weight
from the added oxygen atoms!
How simple a principle can that be!? So, to keep tabs
on your collection, one only needs to weigh them
periodicly to see if they've gone off the diet, as it
were. Could help in seeing an unseen problem before
its too late. Of course, it'd be hard to find a scale
to weigh those 10-30 lb or more prizes, but for the
smaller stuff, it could keep you from obtaining a
collection of expensive rust!
Mark

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Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 753

[mark ferguson]

Hi John, Tom and list
John, would a inert invironment help sabilize this
oxidation? Like vacuum sealing them in a food storage
bag like whats advertised on the tv? Or, for a more
pleasing display, one of the little globes used for
opal with the large rubber stopper back filled with
helium (helium is easy to get from local stores which
they fill ballons with is why I mention it). I'm
always wondering about long term storage because, as
you know, once something starts oxidizing, it often
does so very quickly.
Mark

--- John Divelbiss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Tom,
> 
> First off, many of R pieces from the desert are
> oxidized a bit.
> 
> According to "Rocks from Space",  these meteorites
> have very little free
> metal "floating around" in the makeup. Like normal
> chondrites with nickel
> iron. The metal is in the sulfide forms of
> pyrrhotite and pentlandite.  The
> iron level in the olivine is the highest among
> chondrites.
> 
> All that gives this type of meteorite a higher
> rate/chance of oxidation than
> others.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> John
> - Original Message -
> From: "Tom aka James Knudson"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "meteorite-list"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 6:58 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 753
> 
> 
> > Hello List, I have a slice of NWA 753. It has some
> rust colored spots
> > through out the matrix. What Am I looking at? If
> it is rust, what rusted?
> > Thanks, Tom
> > The proudest member of the IMCA 6168
> >
> >
> >
> > __
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> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
>
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> >
> 
> 
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Re: [meteorite-list] A Metallic Asteroid May Have Coincided With The Fall Of Rome

[mark ferguson]

Hi Ron and List
Seems many things happened in the 5th century AD. A
meteorite impact sure would upset the masses, but
findings from around the world show a significant
volcanic event occurred about 436-437 AD. Writings
from many places indicate severely diminished sunlight
hrs for many months and lending credibility to the
term "The Dark Ages". It appears that a super plinian
volcano, very possibly Krakatoa, let loose and effects
may well have been felt world wide. Sulphuric spikes
in ice corings correlate the date as well as tree
rings from lock and bog fortresses in Ireland. A
Chinese prince writes of yellow dust falling to the
ground so thick you can scoop up handfuls and with the
sun shinning only dimly for an hour or two a day, he
fears how to feed his people as the crops won't grow
in conditions like this. A plague runs rampant though
the "civilized world" of the Roman Empire and Europe
since the sun shipitifullyully for a couple hours a
day and cold temperatures have set in when it should
be warm. Famine hits hard in South America and disease
speads in the Moche Empire. This, I believe is what
happened to the Roman Empire and the Moche of Peru. I
also believe it caused the dark ages, and it isn't
just a term used to describe a time of no advancement
and loss of intelligence in a civilization.
Mark


--- Ron Baalke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
>
http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/science/story/0,12450,889308,00.html
> 
> A metallic asteroid may have coincided with the fall
> of Rome, says Duncan Steel 
> 
> The Guardian (United Kingdom)
> February 6, 2003
> 
> In the early fifth century, rampaging Goths swept
> through Italy. 
> Inviolate for 1,100 years, Rome was sacked by the
> hordes in 410 AD. 
> St Augustine's apologia, the City of God, set the
> tone for Christians 
> for the next 16 centuries. 
> 
> But the Rome of that era came close to suffering a
> far worse calamity. 
> A small metallic asteroid descended from the sky,
> making a hypervelocity 
> impact in an Apennine valley just 60 miles east of
> the city. This 
> bus-sized lump of cosmic detritus vaporised as it
> hit the ground. In 
> doing so, it released energy equivalent to around
> 200 kilotonnes of TNT: 
> around 15 times the power of the atomic bomb that
> levelled Hiroshima in 
> 1945. 
> 
> Pescara is on the Adriatic coast, located across the
> Italian peninsula 
> from Rome. Housed there is the International
> Research School of Planetary 
> Sciences, where staff and students study topics
> ranging from planetary 
> geology to astrobiology. In 1999, a young impact
> cratering specialist 
> from Sweden, Jens Ormö, arrived to take up a
> three-year position
> funded by the European Union. 
> 
> Ormö, it happens, is keen on hill walking, and just
> inland from Pescara 
> are some of the most spectacular mountains in the
> Apennines. He decided 
> that some hiking in the area of the Sirente Massif
> was in order, and so 
> he consulted a local guidebook. As he thumbed its
> pages, Ormö came 
> across a photograph of something that amazed him.
> What he saw, labelled 
> as a natural lake, was surely an impact crater. 
> 
> An expedition to the site of the putative impact, on
> the Sirente plain, 
> was hastily organised. Colleagues confirmed Ormö's
> initial suspicion. 
> Here was an impact crater about 140 metres wide,
> previously unrecognised 
> despite lying only a short distance from a busy
> road, and visible from 
> miles away. It has appeared on maps for centuries,
> and in guidebooks
> for decades - but no one had recognised its
> significance. 
> 
> Natural lakes are common in the area. But this one
> has a raised rim, now 
> about two metres high, but originally rather
> thicker. This was produced 
> by the asteroid throwing material out from the
> impact zone, as it crashed 
> at a speed of around 20km per second, producing a
> huge explosion. Later 
> filled with rainwater, the crater is now only a few
> metres deep, and
> occasionally dries up during hot summers. But it was
> more than 30 metres 
> to the bottom when first formed. Centuries of
> weathering has eroded its 
> bank and gradually filled it in. 
> 
> Relatively modest craters like this are unusual,
> because small asteroids 
> can only reach the ground intact if they are
> metallic, and thus strong 
> enough to withstand the physical shock of slamming
> into the atmosphere 
> at such speeds. The best guess at present is that
> the asteroid was about 
> 10 metres across, and had a composition similar to
> nickel-iron meteorites. 
> If it had been stony in composition, as most
> asteroids are, it would have
> shattered in flight and released all of its energy
> in a phenomenal 
> explosion. This is what happened when a 50-metre
> rock blew up over 
> Siberia in 1908, leaving no crater.The expectation
> of a metallic impactor 
> is backed up by the identification of rust grains in
> the surrounding soil. 
> 
> Confirmation of the impact origin comes from 17

RE: [meteorite-list] Space Shuttle "Columbia" Explosion...

[mark ferguson]

Hello Greg and List

Never is a pretty strong word there Greg. And I think
you missed the whole intent of the message. Which was
to point out that the shuttle design was the 6th or
7th place design as far a the designs go. We lost one
crew to human error and a design flaw which was KNOWN
to be a possible problem. You need to study the facts.
I never said there would be a totally safe means of
space travel. I said that the shuttle was not the
optimal design presented, just the one that the powers
at the time thought they could get approved because of
cost and time. No more, No less.
You really need to back off and understand what was
said.

Mark
--- Greg Redfern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mark,
> 
>   First let me say I respect, but totally disagree
> with your stated opinion.
> Throughout the history of mankind, including our
> very first ancestors, if
> they had not had the courage, drive and or curiosity
> to venture into the
> unknown, we would not be where we are today.
> 
>   The STS-107 astronauts, more than any one else,
> knew the dangers
> represented in each flight. They know them, confront
> them as best as
> possible, and fly knowing that all that can be done
> regarding safety has
> been done. THERE WILL NEVER BE A TOTALLY SAFE WAY TO
> ENTER AND RETURN FROM
> SPACENEVER. Escape systems to operate at 39
> miles altitude and 12,500
> MPH just aren't feasible, period.
> 
> Consider Mark the number of airline crashes and
> resultant fatalities
> that have occurred since Challenger on 1/28/86;
> consider the number of
> crashes and fatalities that have occurred in
> vehicles. By comparison the
> shuttles have a pretty impressive record of safety
> and reliability. Whatever
> happened on Columbia will probably be pinpointed (I
> hope enough telemetry,
> photographic evidence and relevant debris can be
> found to aid in the
> inquiry), analyzed and corrected so that the
> Discovery, Endeavour and
> Atlantis can fly once more.
> 
>   Mark, the destiny of humanity will be determined
> ultimately in our ability
> to live, work, populate and inhabit space. The only
> way the human race will
> be assured of survival is to send representatives to
> the other planets of
> the solar system and beyond. We on this List know of
> the dangers and
> consequences of impacts. The ONLY way to protect
> ourselves against the
> catastrophic effects of a Chicxulub event is to
> learn all we can about the
> adversary AND populate other worlds. We can't do
> that from the comfort and
> safety of our observatories and unmanned spacecraft
> - we have to fly into
> space.
> 
>   I will admit that NASA needs to go beyond the
> space shuttle and low Earth
> orbit. We need a replacement for the shuttle fleet
> and need to be going to
> the Moon and Mars. But this is more of a political
> challenge than a
> technical one. No bucks, no Buck Rogers. I doubt
> that Congress has the will
> in these turbulent times to appropriate more money
> to NASA. The Viet Nam war
> forced the cancellation of three Apollo missions due
> to budget cuts (and the
> ho-hum attitude of the American public about going
> to the Moon again and
> again). Our current war footing will have the same
> effect as does the
> general attitude of the American public - many
> people did not even know a
> shuttle mission was ongoing.
> 
>   To close, when we stop exploring and pushing
> ourselves to understand the
> unknown we are taking the first steps towards our
> own oblivion. Evolution
> has a way of eradicating life forms that cannot
> adapt...without manned and
> unmanned exploration of space we will have taken the
> first steps towards
> that end.
> 
>May God bless the STS-107 crew and their
> families. They went to space for
> all of us to try and
> make our world a better place through their
> scientific explorations. They
> represent the best and brightest in the human
> species.
> 
> Greg Redfern
> IMCA #5781
> www.meteoritecollectors.org
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
> Behalf Of Mark Fox
> Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 10:05 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Space Shuttle "Columbia"
> Explosion...
> 
> 
> Feb. 1, 2003
> 
> Dear Meteorite Enthusiasts,
> 
> I just listened to the news right after the post
> from Mr. John Gwilliam.  This is just terrible!!
> Why must we keep sending people up there?  Space
> travel, no matter how breathtaking and awesome, is
> still too hazardous and not well thought out yet.
> People's lives in space are at stake every minute,
> and
> there is still no good way for them to escape to
> earth
> when a fateful problem arises!
> 
> It is at all comprehensible that a tiny meteoroid
> sent
> the shuttle to earth as a fireball?
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Mark Fox
> Newaygo, MI USA
> 
> __
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Re: [meteorite-list] Remembering Challenger and Columbia

[mark ferguson]

Hi Bernd and list
I wish to join those who feel a loss in this tragic
event. Like those before them, these 7 were among
those who trained for a long time to have this job.
And like the test pilots who put their lives on the
line every day to further our knowledge and improve
our technology, they went into this full aware of the
chances for loss of life. Doesn't make it any easier
to live with or understand. I have followed our space
program since the earliest days. Not understanding,
but thrilled at watching the Mercury launches, then
the Gemini and the Apollo missions. Watching Walter
Chronkite's 21st Century and his coverage of missions
was a must event for me. I've grown up watching these
brave people risk it all, and watched some die. I can
only hope that those in the places to make the
choices, choose the best options, not the 6th or 7th
best because of cost. Find ways to learn from this and
improve, and don't spare cost, our research facilities
use the best equipment around, why should our test
pilots and space crews settle for anything less.

My thoughts go out to the families and wish them to
smile proudly for these brave 7 were doing what they
wanted to do.

Mark
--- Bernd Pauli HD
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mark Miconi wrote:
> 
> > God Speed to our fallen heros, they gave their
> lives
> > in a most noble cause, fully aware that the danger
> > exists long before they stepped aboard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S H U T T L E  T R A G E D Y - Jan 28, 1986
> 
> Ronald Reagan's Address To The Nation After The
> Shuttle Tragedy:
> 
> Ladies and gentlemen, I've planned to speak to you
> tonight to report on
> the state of the Union but the events of earlier
> today have led me to
> change those plans. Today is a day for mournings and
> remembering. Nancy
> and I have pain to the core over the tragedy of the
> shuttle CHALLENGER.
> You know we share this pain with all the people of
> our country. This is
> truly a national loss. Nineteen years ago almost to
> the day we lost 3
> astronauts in a terrible accident on the ground but
> we've never lost an
> astronaut in flight. We've never had a tragedy like
> this and perhaps we
> have forgotten the courage it took for the crew of
> the shuttle but they
> - these CHALLENGER seven - were aware of the dangers
> and overcame
> them and did their jobs brilliantly. We mourn seven
> heroes:
> 
> DICK SCOBEE - RONALD McNAIR - MICHAEL SMITH -
> GREGORY JARVIS
> - JUDITH RESNIK- ELLISON ONIZUKA - CHRISTA McAULIFFE
> 
> We mourn their loss as a nation together. The
> families of the seven – we
> cannot bear as you do the full impact of this
> tragedy but we feel the
> loss and we are thinking about you so very much.
> Your loved ones were
> daring and brave and they had that special grace -
> that special spirit
> that says: 'Give me a   c h a l l e n g e   and I'll
> meet it with joy'.
> They had a hunger to explore the universe and
> discover its truth, they
> wished to serve and they did - they served all of
> us.We've grown used to
> wonders in this century - it's hard to bedevil us -
> but the 25 years the
> US space program has been doing just that; we've
> grown used to the idea
> of space and perhaps we forget that we've only just
> begun - we are still
> pioneers.
> 
> They, these members of the CHALLENGER crew were
> pioneers and I want
> to say something to the school children of America
> who were watching the
> life coverage of this shuttle's take-off: I know
> it's hard to understand
> but sometimes painful things like this happen; it's
> all part of the
> process of exploration and discovery; it's all part
> of taking a chance
> and expanding men's horizons.The future doesn't
> belong to the
> faint-hearted - it belongs to the brave. The
> CHALLENGER crew was
> pulling us into the future and we'll continue to
> follow them. I'd always
> had great faith in and respect for our space program
> and what happened
> today does nothing to diminish it. We don't hide our
> space program, we
> don't keep secrets and cover things up - we do it
> all up front and in
> public and that's the way freedom is and we wouldn't
> change it for a
> minute.
> 
> We'll continue our quest in space, there'll be more
> shuttle flights and
> more shuttle crews and, yes, more volunteers, more
> civilians, more
> teachers in space. Nothing ends here - our hopes and
> our journeys
> continue. I want to add that I wish I could talk to
> every man and woman
> who works for NASA or who worked on this mission and
> tell them: "Your
> dedication and professionalism has moved and
> impressed us for decades
> and we know of your anguish - we share it.
> 
> There is a coincidence today that this year 390
> years ago, the great
> explorer Sir Francis Drake, died aboard ship off the
> coast of Panama;
> in his lifetime the great frontiers were the oceans
> and the story later
> said he lived by the sea, died on it and was buried
> in it. We today, we
> can say of the CHALLENGER crew, there dedication 

Re: [meteorite-list] Mercury Meteorite? plus New Lunar in Tucson

[mark ferguson]

Makes one wonder if Dr Palme was being sarcastic. It'd
be really hard to get an impact ejectate off of
Mercury and this far out from the sun.
Mark



--- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Dear List Members, 
> 
> We promised you some surprises this year at the
> Tucson show, and here are
> the first of them. 
> 
> We are very pleased to announce a NEW non-NWA Lunar
> meteorite. It is
> currently awaiting classification, but viewing is
> available upon request in
> our room at the Executive Inn. 
> 
> In addition, Lang-Hupé Meteorites have joined forces
> to acquire the only
> available specimen of NWA 011. This ultra-rare
> eucrite-like achondrite was
> featured in an article by Shinji Inoue in the August
> 2002 issue of
> "Meteorite" magazine. In his article, Mr. Inoue
> quotes Dr. Herbert Palme
> who said "Perhaps NWA 011 is a basalt from Mercury."
> 
> 
> The total known weight of this meteorite is only 40
> grams, and we are able
> to offer the only specimen of NWA 011 in private
> hands. It is also
> available in our room at the Executive Inn (Room
> 130). 
> 
> There's more! 
> 
> Viewing and bidding for our silent no-reserve
> auction begins today, January
> 31, and will end on Saturday, February 8. We are
> offering over fifty rare
> and historic meteorites, about thirty of which come
> with original Nininger
> or Huss labels. All these specimens are going out
> the door with no reserve! 
> 
> And there's cold beer too. Please stop by and say
> hello if you will be in
> Tucson for the show. 
> 
> More surprises to come! 
> 
> Sincerely, 
> 
> Allan and Iris Lang -- Greg and Adam Hupé 
> Room 130 at the Best Western Executive Inn 
> 333 West Drachman 
> Tucson, Arizona 
> 
> Hotel phone is (520) 791-7551 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .
> 
> 
> 
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>
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Re: [meteorite-list] triolite inclusions

[mark ferguson]

Hi Jeff, Steve and List
There is a great book (and offhand, I can't remember
the name of the author) but its called Opaque Minerals
in Meteorites and goes into detail on these minerals
which don't show up other than black blebs under
crossed polars.
Mark 
--- Jeff Kuyken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> G'day Mike, Russ & List,
> 
> I have a small endcut of NWA 803 which has a few
> metal pockets and in the centre of those are other
> inclusions. It is not rust, but I always thought it
> was perhaps triolite. They are a gold/brown colour.
> Would this assumption be correct or way off track? I
> think I read somewhere that you can get triolite in
> metal pockets like these. You can see a photo of the
> piece at this address:
> 
>
http://www.meteoritesaustralia.com/features/nwa803.html
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jeff Kuyken
> I.M.C.A. #3085
> www.meteoritesaustralia.com
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: tett 
>   To: STEVE ARNOLD ;
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>   Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:43 AM
>   Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] triolite inclusions
> 
> 
>   Steve,
> 
>   Troilite is the mineral iron-sulphide.  I would
> guess that sulphur and iron mixed in sections of
> iron meteorites as the material was cooling and
> formed these pockets.  Perhaps someone more learned
> on the list could explain better.  Not much in
> R.F.S. or The Encylopedia or Met. & T. Parent
> Planets covering Troilite.  At least not that I
> could find in 5 minutes.
> 
>   A few web pages state that this mineral is only
> found in meteorites and other state that it is
> "predominantly" found in meteorites.  
> 
>   I have a nice Sikhote slice with troilite
> inclusions and it is now more dear to me since
> learning how rare this mineral is.  Thanks for
> bringing this up Steve.
> 
>   Cheers,
> 
>   Mike
> - Original Message - 
> From: STEVE ARNOLD 
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 7:03 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] triolite inclusions
> 
> 
> Hey there good list. Can someone please let me
> know, what is triolite? And why does it tend to make
> cavitys in iron meteoritesPlease let me know.
> 
> 
> steve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve   R.  Arnold, Chicago, USA!!
> 
> The Midwest Meteorite Collector!
> 
> I.M.C.A.   #6728
> 
> stormbringer60120.tripod.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

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