Re: [meteorite-list] slabbed meteorites
Stan, I was attempting to be sarcastic. I mistook Bill's comments to be an attack on profiteering. I'd rather pay the $7/g because I know there's a lot of value added from of all the effort it takes to have the testing, cutting etc. done. I'd rather spend what free time I do have on prospecting and meteorite hunting around here (and so have that lower paying stable job most of us settle for) and leave Morocco to those who have the necessary drive it takes to succeed. I certainly don't offer my services for free. I was just up too late and my judgment was a bit impaired. While I'm pretty young, I have that Mike Meyers SNL "grumpy old man" persona at times. e.g. When I was a boy, we didn't have soccer balls. We dug up a pineapple cactus and kicked it around with our bare feet till we were dizzy from the lack of blood... That's the way it was... And we liked it! (See, it's late again.) Mark - Original Message - From: "stan ." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 12:10 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] slabbed meteorites > well you DO realize that you dont have to buy from conventional dealers, > yes? with a little bit of research on the net it wouldnt be too hard to come > up with the contacts for at least 2 guys directly in morocco. they normally > dont like selling a few grams here and there - but if you partner up with a > few collector buddies there is no reason why you cant buy directly out of > morocco yourself. there are risks - but these risks tend to be minimalized > by dealing with known moroccain sources AND knowing your meteorites. but in > the end it's a trade off - would you rather pay 7$ a gram for nwa cv3 from a > dealer stateside who will guarantee the authenticity of a rock in > perpetuality - or would you rather pay 1.25$ a gram and get a rock with no > nwa number who's only authenticity guarantee is based upon your ability to > recognize a cv3? keep in mind that most guys in morocco probably arent going > to want to talk to you unless you are spending a thousand or two or even > more - and even if they dont mind doing small transactons bank wire or > western union fees make such highly unrealistic. > > > >From: "minador" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: minador <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] slabbed meteorites > >Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 01:26:28 -0700 > > > >If we could only convince sellers to stop profiting, the world would be a > >better place. I mean I provide my professional services for free, why > >can't > >they? > > > >Mark > >Vail, AZ > > > > > >- Original Message - > >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 12:13 AM > >Subject: [meteorite-list] slabbed meteorites > > > > > > > I'm sure many drool over the possibility of establishing that system. > >It's > >worked so well in all other collectible markets to run profits up. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > __ > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > >__ > >Meteorite-list mailing list > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] slabbed meteorites
If we could only convince sellers to stop profiting, the world would be a better place. I mean I provide my professional services for free, why can't they? Mark Vail, AZ - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 12:13 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] slabbed meteorites > I'm sure many drool over the possibility of establishing that system. It's worked so well in all other collectible markets to run profits up. > > Bill > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: solution to the number game
Hi All, From: "Comcast Mail" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I believe ( I know this will not be the popular belief ) that whether a > meteorite is a find or a fall and has a NWA # or locality name there > really is no point in renaming specimens. If its the same meteorite . > then its the same meteorite. It might be the same meteorite, but it's not NWA 1110. It's sort of like two different companies buying bolts from the same factory. The bolts have the same look, features and reliability. One company has theirs tested and certified. The other company doesn't (and gives them a different name and packaging). They're exactly the same in every respect, but not to a engineering firm with deep pockets (or the lawyers looking for any reason to sue after a failure of what ever the engineer makes...). An engineer is going to use the certified bolts if the application calls for it. I'll opt for the less expensive untested bolts as I'm only building a "swing set" or the like. And if I'm led to believe they come from the same bin as the certified ones, there's nothing wrong with passing that info along. It may or may not be true, but as long as I'm getting a cheap bolt what do I care? It's obviously they size I need... The point is that no matter how the same they are, they're not the same. e.g. RC can't sell their cola in a Coke can. Except if Coke doesn't care, then it's ok. That's what you're doing when you sell your "NWA 1110". Just say you bought your unclassified material from a guy in Africa who claims he sold Adam his NWA 1110 (and that he also claims he collected them from the same exact location), but that you haven't had it scientifically tested or paired to the NonCom standards as it pertains to NWA meteorites. It looks the same, smells the same, but didn't come from the material tested and named NWA 1110. This tends to build up trust between collectors and dealers. Clear skies to all, Mark Bowling Vail, AZ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Another fake name, serious business
I agree with Mike and Adam on this one. I'm a new collector, and I certainly don't want to be sold something that isn't as advertised. I don't mind buying unclassified stuff, etc. but I want to be told (so I don't propagate any errors). I think it's an honest mistake on Marcin's part, but dealers need to be sure what they're selling, and believing a Moroccan doesn't cut it in my eyes. I think when you're sold something with a number, you need to inquire as to where it received that number. Maybe it's something they submitted or maybe it's something they traded from the person who got the number. If you got it from a hippie selling strange etching potions, you should probably get your own number or use none. Should the IMCA work on some kind of rules or guidelines for dealers to work from? I think that the dealers who put a lot of time and money into their material should push for this. It could make things easier for them in the long run. A solution may be slow in coming, but I think it's something that should be attempted sooner rather than later. As for the collectors, caveat emptor - know your buyer or just buy with little faith if you like what you see (and make sure you disclose those concerns when parting with that material). I don't mind buying admitted questionable material at a good price if it brings me some satisfaction. We all just need to do our part to keep things on the up and up. As for Mike bringing up the subject publicly before contacting the dealer, I think it's great if it saves me from making a bad purchase. Sure, I can get a refund, but it saves me time and hassle in the long run. In this instance, I think Mike did the right thing. Thanks! Wow, I agreed with Mike... ;-) Mark Bowling Vail, AZ - Original Message - From: "Meteoryt.net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > I buy it from a well know Maroccan dealer AS NWA1906. Later in June I saw in > Ensisheim other persons selling THE SAME material as NWA1906 R4 and NWA2289 > R3-6. Comparing photos is not the same as comparing material in real, slice > to slice under loupe. So I was sure that I have NWA1906 and NWA2289. So I > start selling this without any BAD intention to anyone. Just another > meteorite, as other that I buy in Morocco. > > -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Which one came closest?
How about Tucson! (well I don't officially live there right now, but I did for about 30 years...) > How many people live in the same town that has a meteorite named after it? > Dave F. > __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Which one came closest?
Well, I thought it was the Tanque Verde Wash meteorite from Norton's Rocks >From Space, but it's not listed in Meteorites From A to Z or Catalog of Meteorites (not submitted to NomCom?). So the closest would probably Udall Park (an H4), though Greaterville is close also (an L4). Mark, Vail, AZ > Do you know which meteorite came closest to your backyard? > > Anne M. Black __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] ATTN: German list members
Hi List, I'll be working at Spiel in Messe Essen next week from Okt. 21-24 (http://www.merz-verlag.com/). If any of you would like to visit my booth or meet in the evening to discuss meteorites, please email me off list. I can bring a few duplicate specimens in my collection if you are interested in buying. If I'm unable to get back to you, the booth is 6-108. Unfortunately - Ich kann nicht gut Deutsch sprechen... I've been very tied up the last few months. I hope everyone is doing well! Enjoy the Orionids - I've been missing them the last few years because of Spiel... Clear skies to all, Mark Bowling Vail, AZ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 110 Photos
Hi All, It seems that Adam is correct, as per Jeff's clarification. NWA 1110 applies only to the 118 g he submitted. Nobody denies that the material in question could be from the same fall, and that it may be the same in every way (and might be proven to be paired - following the right steps). The issue is the use of the official name. One thing that may be causing confusion is this. I can call a meteorite I find along the RR tracks at Arntz a "Holbrook", and nobody would have an issue with that (unless it was obviously different - e.g. an iron or MES). I can also go to the person the Hupe's bought the meteorite from and locate a specimen with the exact same physical properties, that was somehow misplaced (perhaps I notice it in an overlooked hole in the floor). I cannot call that piece NWA 1110 based on my personal observations and reasoning. I can go through the effort that Adam did and hopefully get an ok from the NonCom to call it a pairing with NWA 1110 and have a unique number of my own. Considering the time, effort and cost involved, I can understand why the Hupe's want to protect that. My brother's business goes through the trouble of having all of our original products patented, trade marked, etc. (thought that doesn't always help if you have careless attorneys who don't observe filing deadlines...) - it isn't cheap or easy to do that. It adds a level of certainty for those who can afford to drop a few grand on space rocks. And that sort of effort requires that those rules are respected, and I (and I suspect most other holders of their material) expect them to follow up in any way they can. I think that Bob could say that his piece was found in the same area as NWA 1110 and that it looks exactly the same. It holds no water, but nobody could dispute it. He just can't say it IS NWA 1110. As it is, I think it would have to be an unclassified NWA unless he's had it classified. If it's classified and is certified Martian, it still is a valuable piece - worth having in any collection. In fact, none of this would stop me from bidding if I weren't certain it will sell for more that I can afford. I will try to snap up one of Bob's Amgala specimens though - those are too cool! I hope both sellers well and hope some entity can come forward to referee this sort of stuff... Good wishes to all and to all a fresh fall on your lawn (or cactus garden)... Mark, Vail, AZ - Original Message - From: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Bernhard Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 110 Photos > Hi Bernhard, > > NWA 1110 is a proprietary lab sample comprised of 118 grams that we paid to > have studied and authenticated. The NWA 1110 designation only applies to > this 118 grams. I know there are pairings to NWA 1110, this is not in > dispute. If another dealer will not invest the time and money to have his > material authenticated why should we honor his self proclaimed pairings. > It is very simple, what he has may be paired but it is not NWA 1110. I feel > like I am talking to a wall. Has anybody read Jeff Grossman's statements? > > This is the last from me, I grow tired of repeating myself. > > Adam > > > - Original Message - > From: "Bernhard Rems" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 2:50 PM > Subject: AW: [meteorite-list] NWA 110 Photos > > > Adam, > > but it would be fair to say that it is most probably the same material > as NWA 1110, right? > > Bernhard > > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- > Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Adam > Hupe > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 09. September 2004 23:36 > An: Comcast Mail > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 110 Photos > > Some people will never get it. You do not have NWA 1110! Have a > scientist > authenticate it and get your own number. > > > - Original Message - > From: "Comcast Mail" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Meteorite list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 2:35 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 110 Photos > > > > Well, > > > > Sorry , I didn't realize trying to sell a few Martian meteorites would > stir > > up so much controversy. My apologies to everyone. > > > > For those interested you can see better pics of my NWA 1110 at the > following > > link: > > > > http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/spacerox2001/album?.dir=/adcf&.src=ph > > > > As far as Adam goes , I know this is all about money to him. Im sure > he > > wanted to be the sole possessor of NWA 1110 , Sorry Adam. my > stuff > > is the same as yours. Care to share some pics? > > > > As for those interested, Im selling these on ebay > > You can search my Seller name " maccers531 " to find the auctions > > They end Sunday and Im sure some collectors will read between Hupes > emails > > and get one of these rare specimens for their collection.
Re: [meteorite-list] Bush-b-Gone sale
Hey List, That's true - he's the "stain on America's blue dress" president. ;-) My buddy's over there fighting some kind of conflict - He calls it a war and Bush is his Commander-in-Chief - I guess that does make him a war president. Did FDR get this much grief? All in fun! Happy hunting and collecting! Mark (hunting Holbrook soon - wish me luck!) - Original Message - From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Tom AKA James Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bush-b-Gone sale > I will tell you the difference, Clinton did not claim to be the "war" > president. > Mike Farmer > - Original Message - > From: "Tom AKA James Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 7:15 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bush-b-Gone sale > > > > Hi there list, while we are on the off subject of politics, may I ask > this? > > Bush did not fight in a war and everyone looks down on him, Kerry might > have > > made some exaggerations of his war days and everyone looks down on him, > but > > neither of these situations comes close to that draft dodger the democrats > > voted into office 11 years ago. What's the big deal about Bush or Kerry? > > > > Thanks, Tom > > peregrineflier <>< > > IMCA 6168 > > http://www.frontiernet.net/~peregrineflier/Peregrineflier.htm > > - Original Message - > > From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 4:32 PM > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Bush-b-Gone sale > > > > > > > In light of the coming election in the USA, I am having a Bush-B-Gone > > sale. > > > Email me if you want anything on my website, I will make great discounts > > > through this weekend. > > > Mike Farmer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Zagami Game (taking it off topic!)
Hi everyone, I can't resist a shameless plug... My brother's company manufacturers Icehouse sets made of natural minerals (something he worked out with Loony Labs who invented Icehouse). They can be used to play hundreds of games in addition to Icehouse and Zagami. http://www.crystalcaste.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=CC&Category_Code=PY Good hunting! Mark Vail, Arizona - Original Message - From: "Pierre-Marie PELE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "MeteoriteList" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 8:40 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] The Zagami Game > Hello to the List, > > searching for Zagami information on the web, I found this Zagami Game that you can play on a standard chessboard. The story is comic : > > "In 1962, on a quiet October afternoon in the middle of an African cornfield, a 40-pound meteorite tumbled to the earth and planted itself in a two-foot hole in the ground. It landed ten feet away from a farmer, who was busy scaring crows away from his corn and so was not on the lookout for falling meteorites. The papers reported that the pressure wave from the impact knocked him flat on his back. > > What the papers failed to report was that, immediately after the impact, a tiny Martian lifeform hopped off the smoldering rock and made its way, quietly, toward the dazed farmer. The changes that overtook him during the following weeks and months were slow and subtle to the eye. It was a long while before he, or anyone else, understood what he'd become. > > Zagami is a game of Martian microbial life for four players; it requires a standard chessboard and an Icehouse set. Each player controls a single-colored colony of microbes, which moves and expands across the small meteorite in search of food. Multicolored stacks begin to form - microbes eating microbes eating microbes. As the game progresses, each colony evolves "enzymes" which allow it to metabolize other microbes into energy to be used for growing, sporing, attacking, and escaping. Only one colony will survive the long journey from Mars to Earth. Will it be yours?" > > > Here's the link to get the rules ! http://www.wunderland.com/WTS/Kory/Games/Zagami/ > > Regards, > > Pierre-Marie PELE > www.meteor-center.com > -- > > Faites un voeu et puis Voila ! www.voila.fr > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Where Were You When It Happened...delete nowit's from me
Boy, it's great reading the different experiences you had - I wish I had been around then. I'll have to ask my parents what they were doing. I guess I could have bought some lunar material to compensate for my lack of a connection... Maybe when I when the lottery (I guess never since I don't do lotteries...). :-) Good night (day) to all! Mark Vail AZ - Original Message - From: "DNAndrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 9:33 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Where Were You When It Happened...delete nowit's from me > I was 12 at the time and staying at my grand parents house in Carlsbad, > New Mexico (where I was born and raised...not Holbrook). They had a > nice color console TV then as my aunt lived with them and she was a > little more hi-tech than they were. Anyway, I remember my grandma > asking, "What are you watching?" as she was quilting, crocheting or > whatever she was doing. When we told her that we were watching men > walking on the moon, she replied, "That's impossible! I don't believe > that." We told her to "watch the TV, it's therethey are doing it > now." She refused to believe it all. She probably would have made a > good Capricorn 1 conspirator. ;-) > > BTW-I remember the first color TV show that I had viewedBonanza, > about 1961 or 2? The quality wasn't that good as everyone was kind of > purple and lots of green (Loren) in the background. I do remember > SkyKing in black and whiteit was one of my faves. > > OK, I'm done. > Dave > > > > > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Meteorite?
My vote is for smelter slag. It can rarely have some value to it. Mark Bowling Arizona - Original Message - From: "Michael L Blood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Meteorite? > What do people think of the photo at the link below? What is the > vote? Is this a meteorite, or not? > > http://community.webshots.com/photo/165850784/165851815OYLCpy > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Franconia for sale (Canyon Diablo questions)
Hi List, Dennis has added some great unclassified franconia area meteorites. My dad and I saw Dennis find a few of these while we were up there searching, so I know they're not planted. http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=dwheadstone&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50 Happy bidding. I'll try to keep my sniping to a minimum... ;-) Mark Vail,AZ P.S. what's with all the Canyon Diablos on eBay? Is it related to the current AZ highways issue, or is there something else going on? What's a "market price" on something in the ~200g range??? __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] TEST - Delete
I wanted to see if the list was functioning.and to see if people read the "test delete" messages. I'm glad I didn't put anything too controversial in there... ;-) Yes, coordinates would be forthcoming to all NASCAR associates... - Original Message - From: "Jerry A. Wallace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] TEST - Delete > AND...I suppose- had this been an actual alert- we would have been > advised to tune to the > NASCAR (National Aeronautics and Science Consortium for Astronomical > Reconnaissance) > channel on our radios for GPS coordinates of the new fall. > > Right? > > minador wrote: > > >This is a test of the Meteorite Emergency Broadcast System > > > >This is only a test. > > > > > > > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] TEST - Delete
This is a test of the Meteorite Emergency Broadcast System This is only a test. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Nevada Meteorite on Ebay
Hi List, I agree with Bob. I've posted something regarding this mess and the IMCA on the IMCA list. I think some members have brought up some important issues regarding the IMCA. So check it out over there. :-) Mark Bowling - Original Message - From: "Robert Verish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Meteorite-list Meteoritecentral" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 11:08 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] New Nevada Meteorite on Ebay I feel these questions > should be raised and discussed on the IMCA-List, where > it was first raised, and where it properly belongs. > > Bob V. > __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Thank you for the information
Hi Adam, I didn't think it was off topic at all. I really enjoy getting updates from the different teams when they're out on the hunt. I wouldn't give up on that occurrence, but maybe that's why I probably wouldn't be very successful in you line of work... Please keep us updated - I for one have picked up tips from the past "hunting reports". Viel Glück! Mark Vail, AZ - Original Message - From: "Adam Hupe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 9:08 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Thank you for the information > Dear List, > > I would like to thank those who took the time to respond to my questions > regarding the effects of lightning on trees. After reading several off-List > emails I concluded the damage to the trees was more than likely caused by > lightning. This post may seem a little off topic but when trying to track > down a fall I feel it is important to know what to look for in the field. I > have found that there are a lot of things that cannot, at first, be > explained but thanks to others who shared what they knew about lightning I > will no longer pursue the broken trees as clues in our search. > > This forum has proven several times that sharing information is a key > component in helping others including myself to better understand > meteorites. This includes the many disciplines that are related in one way > or another. > > > Kind Regards, > > Adam Hupe > The Hupe Collection > Team LunarRock > IMCA 2185 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA/Sahara maps
Hi Bernd, Yes, but I'm looking for a larger scale map showing the whole region - I suppose it's a project for me... :-) Have a nice night, Mark - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA/Sahara maps > > Are there any regional maps depicting NWA & Sahara (and others?) on the > > same map? I've found some material online, but they're small scale maps that > > don't show the "big picture". > > > Hi again, > > Have you already tried Jeff Grossman's "Meteorite Collection Areas"? > > http://meteoriticalsociety.org/simple_template.cfm?code=pub_bulletinareas > > > Best regards, > > Bernd > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Killer thread
Hi Dave and list, I had a problem a while back. It seems to be doing fine now - I think I may have sent some of them as html. It could have been other problems though... Lately it's fine. mark Bowling - Original Message - From: "David Freeman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "meteorite-list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 8:47 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Killer thread > Oops, I meant thread killer in the subject. > I seem to notice that when I post, that 36% of the time, the thread dies > after I postHas anyone else noticed this unusual occurance, and > does it happen to them? > D Freeman > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NWA/Sahara maps
Hi List, Are there any regional maps depicting NWA & Sahara (and others?) on the same map? I've found some material online, but they're small scale maps that don't show the "big picture". I know there are uniquely named falls/finds through out Northern Africa. I'm mainly interested in a visual showing the boundaries that would determine whether an unclassified specimen would be called NWA vs. Sahara (or any other "catch all" names that may be in the same part of the world). Thanks for any help! Mark Bowling Vail, AZ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Need ideas for numbering collection
Hi List, I've been wanting to create a numbering system for my collection. Right now I'm just using the specimen name with the gram weight. Believe it or not, I actually have a few specimens with the same weight! So I need to come up with something more versatile. The few ideas I've come up with or have seen aren't very attractive. I guess this sort of thing will always involve compromise though. I would like to hear what you do for your collections. Contact me off list if you don't want to post publicly. Happy collecting! Mark Bowling Vail, AZ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Just observed bright meteor (fireball?) outside Tucson!
Hello List, About 7:45 (~3:45 GMT) I witnessed a bright meteor bearing ~270 degrees at an altitude of ~70° down to ~45°. I can't estimate a brightness, but the sun had been down ~20 minutes and the sky was still fairly bright blue. About 10 minutes later I thought to look at Jupiter, and it was much brighter than Jupiter. The meteor was a brilliant white/blue and I could see a few pieces come off, but nothing major. This whole event took ~3 to occur. Did it most likely burn up at high altitude? Would this be called a fireball since it was very bright? Is there somewhere I should report this? I was pretty excited at the time and was trying to point it out to my dad. Certainly others in the Tucson area saw this, especially since it was in the area close to Jupiter. Any other sky observers out there who saw this? Any feedback will be appreciated. Thanks, Mark Bowling Vail, AZ (Southeast of Tucson) __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Moldavite question
Hi list, I saw a seller selling a Moldavite as a "great channeling crystal". Aren't Moldavites a type of impactite glass, and thus lacking crystal structure (amorphous)? Also, I was checking in an old geology dictionary, and it mentions that Moldavites are a type of ozocerite (also spelled ozokerite). A mineral paraffin wax (aka mineral wax, fossil wax, earth wax & native paraffin). Has anyone heard of ozocerite and know how they are (were) associated with Moldavites? Thanks, Mark Bowling Vail, AZ, USA __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rants
Hi List, I have a question relating to this. What exactly are the guidelines for this list? I'm on 4 lists. This one, IMCA, Meteorite_Sale and eBay Meteorites. Many times I receive duplicate emails (mostly sales). While this isn't too much of a problem for me, I imagine that there are people who don't subscribe to all lists and only are interested in non-sale discussions. Are there any firm rules here? Thanks, Mark Bowling Vail, AZ - Original Message - From: "Marc D. Fries" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 11:31 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rants > Could you gents take your fight off-line? This has turned into a > spam-stream. > > Cheers, > MDF > > > -- > Marc D. Fries, Ph.D. > Postdoctoral Research Associate > Carnegie Institution of Washington > Geophysical Laboratory > 5251 Broad Branch Rd. NW > Washington, DC 20015 > PH: 202 478 7970 > FAX: 202 478 8901 > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Statistics for falls (& List Problems)
Dear List, I've also been having trouble receiving/sending messages. I had a couple of posts that didn't make it through. I'm most curious with this one though... - Original Message - From: "minador" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Sterling K. Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Meteorite-List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Statistics for falls Sterling Wrote: > where I outlined a different method of > estimating the fall rate and came up with a figure of 50,000 to 80,000 per > year, > based on how many meteorites hit cars. The method is the same as is used > in > nuclear physics to calculate "collisional cross sections." Wow, that's great to hear. Have there been any papers written on this subject? What is the convention wisdom regarding meteorite supply? Are they being "hunted out", or are hunter's just beginning to scratch the surface (of the earth)? Private replies are always welcome. As I said before, I don't want to take away from Tracy's post... Over & out, Mark B. Vail, AZ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Fall Rates
Hi List, I agree with Walter on both points. I would throw "more meteorite awareness" in with the increase in population density. Does that sound reasonable? However, just because there is a lack of sample data, that doesn't mean there can't be a true increase of fall rate. I sometimes think that solar system is seen more static that it truly is. For instance, it's easy to talk about collisions now that we witnessed Shoemaker-Levy 9 smack into Jupiter. At least perhaps with novices like me. I'm sure scientist have been warning of such events for a long time now. This is a really interesting discussion. I hope a lot of you have time to write some comments... Mark Bowling - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 6:42 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Fall Rates Hello Everyone, Determining whether meteorite falls has remained constant over a given period of time is more difficult than it first appears. At least other two variables have to be considered. First, as I point out on my site, increasing population density may account for an increase in reported falls. If the fall rate truly is constant over say the past century, any increase in reported falls may be more of a function of more people covering a given area of the Earth's surface, than an actual increase in fall rate. An inverse correlation between population density and fall rate would be much more interesting. Also, there may be the problem of time sampling. Meteorites have been impacting the Earth for literally billions of years. The time of recorded human history is so small in comparison. The time that we have been interested in documenting falls smaller still. Any perceived (or even documented) increase or decrease in fall rate may simply be due to random fluctuations that, given a longer period of time, may prove to just be so much "noise" rather than a true signal. Much like my seti-at-home screen saver program. I sometimes see enormous changes in the frequency over a short period of time but overall, the curve plots a rather flat line :-( -Walter www.branchmeteorites.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Machu Picchu Meteorite?
Doesn't look like a meteorite - since it's very heavy, could it be a hematite nodule? Then again, hematite isn't usually hard enough grind granite, right? Did the Inca's even "grind" building stones? I thought they shaped them by impact - bang a shaping stone onto the building stone. I think it looks like a worn chunk of basalt, which because of its large size, could explain the heaviness. Water worn (smooth) basalt can sometimes have a metallic luster from desert varnish. If only the photo was of better quality. Very interesting though... Any other ideas??? Mark Bowling - Original Message - From: ken newton To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 7:50 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Machu Picchu Meteorite? http://www.gateofthesun.com/evan2/machupichu.htm Photo of 'meteorite' about halfway down page. What do you think? Ken #9632 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Apology for "academic egghead PhDs"
Dear List, Someone just graciously pointed out my poor choice of words privately rather than chastising me publicly. I apologize if I offended any academics. I didn't mean to lump all academics together. Those I intended to criticize are those who are condescending toward amateurs or professionals only because they don't have the correct credentials or are for profit. The "boot leather" types they criticize can play an essential role in new discovery. I don't consider most academic as eggheads - just the purists who seem to have no judgment or balance (common sense). I meant the ivory tower types who can be so problematic and irritating to those who try to come up with new ideas or "trail blaze" into new geographic areas. I didn't foresee that "egghead" can mean more than highbrow, especially for those who are academics and are flippantly tagged with the word so often. I have many professors whom I keep contact with to this day. They have been great mentors and friends. It seems to me that more and more these days, good leaders are slowly being replaced with politically correct people who are savvy at surviving (because they don't take a stand for something). While those who stand up for what they believe in fall by the way side - or retire with (seemingly) no new, good cadre replacing them. I have the utmost respect for most academics, including some who I may disagree with in some areas. I guess it's important to point out that the person who I was responding to isn't an academic and doesn't represent the academic community. I think that he is engaged in a responsible, honorable profession, but that I just disagree with him on the subject at hand. Respectfully, Mark Bowling Vail, AZ USA __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Thank You - Was A fun Libyan Desert Glass Debate
Keith wrote: > I perfectly agree with you that there is > ***nothing** illegal about picking up or collecting > natural, unmodified pieces of LDG. My discussion had > nothing to do with the collection of natural pieces of > LDG. The only mention of this was that collecting of > any kind in the area containing LDG was prohibited > because of looting of ***artifacts*** in the strewn > field area. In that case, the people collecting only > LDG, not artifacts, were victims of the pothunter > / arrowhead collector types. > > I fully agree that people should be able to collect > and take home natural and unmodified pieces of LDG. > Keith, So why bring this up on a meteorite list? We're not hunting/trading/collecting/selling/studying archaeological artifacts... That's another group isn't it? > my bread and butter geologic work involving finding > sand, gravel, and road fill for companies; generating > oil and gas prospects, which I can sell Some might consider those practices of yours as unethical or morally bankrupt... Though not me - just pointing out that it's easy to nitpick when it comes to moral behaviour. I tend to live and let live - if some poor Arab can sell some pieces of LDG for some barley and oil, that's fine by me... especially pieces that are here today and buried for thousands of years tomorrow. The same goes for mining oil, lead or what ever else people legally engage in to put bread on their table. There are more significant artifacts/sites worthy of study, so many in fact that it would probably take a thousand years to study them all (and by that time they'll be studying us). I don't see picking up flakes as immoral no matter how many academic eggheads say so. Scientists don't have moral leg to stand on if you look at their past behavior. Besides, I know numerous respected PhD's from research one universities who don't agree with most of the current politically correct rhetoric that infects many places of learning these days. I bet many of the "respected" archaeologists you speak of have looted artifacts in their collections, both private and institutional. Seems a bit hypocritical... > prohibit the export of antiquities without permits. If a > person doesn't have the paperwork, which documents > that his Libyan desert glass artifact was exported legally, > a case can be made that the artifact was exported in > violation of either the laws of Egypt or Libya. Since > legally exported artifact are suppose to be sold with > documentation proving that they are legal, the lack of > such, even if the result of negligence on the part of the > person selling it to you failing to provide it, can be used > to argue that the Libyan desert glass artifacts are illicit. > It the owner that has to prove that an artifact was > legally exported with a documented chain-of-custody > going back to the person, who originally received the > license to exported it. If a person doesn't have the > paperwork and don't have this chain-of-custody, the > person don't have the proof that artifact is legal and > the country of origin, whether it be Egypt or Libya > can reclaim it. I think this is wrong. The dealers who were successfully prosecuted in the US & England (for looting in Egypt) weren't successfully prosecuted because they didn't have paperwork - pieces from old collections do not necessarily have documentation. What nailed the case was the fact that they found the detailed journal of the collector which revealed his activities. Most importantly they found some stone reliefs/carvings in his house that were hacked out of a monument. They were exact matches the reliefs that were recently stolen from that monument. In addition, I'm pretty sure that you face prosecution if you are in possession of items of $5,000 or more in value. > Again, someone needs to do a detail study of the antiquity > laws of Egypt, Morocco, and Libya in reference to LEG > artifacts. It seems like people are being much too > complacent about the legally of collecting, buying, and > selling these artifacts. Regardless of whether a minority > of LDG artifacts might be legal, the overall illict trade > in these artifacts is contributing to the destruction of > valuable archaeological sites. Again, I think the laws regarding the possession of "LDG artifacts" has no bearing on the meteorite list. I'll just have to agree to disagree whether the study of flake chippings "contribute to the destruction of valuable archaeological sites". I don't know if I'm engaging in "flaming" here, but I get frustrated with these chicken little/holier that thou arguments. And I'm a bit fatigued after spending the night doing some stargazing and am probably rambling. :-) Respectfully, Mark Bowling __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite eBay Bidding Comment
Boy, I wonder if this thread is about me... :-) I agree with Gregory on this. Bid the max you're willing to pay. Sometimes when I'm at the edge of my budget I'll pass on a few auctions. Only to find later that no other bids were placed and that the item sold way under what I would have been willing to pay. But I am usually more successful when I snipe than when I place my high bid early. That tells me that people aren't bidding at that max amount they're willing to pay. So they only have themselves to blame if they lose. Basically I think the best practice is to identify the highest you're willing to pay and snipe, if you're able, with that amount. Sniping can save you money (when people aren't placing their true max bids). Whether it's good for the seller, it can be argued either way. By sniping you can increase the final bid of the auction if the other bidders aren't bidding their max.; However, it can be demonstrated that by sniping you're aren't pushing the other bidders to bid that max amount. They may be holding back because they don't fully realize what their max bid amount really is until they're outbid. If you bid your max early on, they may run the auction up much higher to the sellers benefit (or just outbid you outright). I think that practicing "max bidding" using both strategies sort of balances out with regard to fairness to the seller (since one can't always be checking eBay). DO YOU SELLERS have any opinions on this? I used to think that sniping wasn't an ethical practice, but I think that if you always bid at your max and participate the conventional (pre-bid) way when you're unable to snipe, you're participating in good faith. There are problems for the sniper, some of which others have mentioned. 1) If a sniper doesn't bid with his max amount, they are at risk of being outbid. They usually can't put in an extra bid (I sometimes use the low snipe when money's tight - it rarely works, but it can stretch your money). 2) if the bid artificially high to edge out others, they can find themselves beyond their means when that "(crazy) high max bid" is out there... 3) they can forget to watch a particular auction and miss out. To those I may have offended/frustrated in the past: If it's any comfort, I use dial-up and have no auto bidding software. I lose more than I win (which is a good thing because another cool meteorite or creative offering always comes by!). And I've been sniped and counter sniped many times. I've always been comforted by the fact that the item was worth more that I was willing to pay (or could afford). I gave it my best. So bid your max, and let the best ebayer win! (Sorry for the long post - I was bored this evening...) Mark (Vail, AZ) P.S. === Don't forget the "buy it now" option... Gregory: << I think bidders who complain about being outbid at the last second are virtually always guilty of one mistake: they never placed a bid of the MAXIMUM amount they would be freely willing to pay for the item. >> __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Need help picking a metal detector.
Hi John, Thanks for the feedback (and to the others who replied on & off list). Yes, I agree about the autoground balance being "useless". I think the problem my Minelab is having is that, even in manual track, there is anti-mineralization circuitry that affects meteorite detection negatively. I still need to test other stones as I've read that they all don't "sound off" the same. I think that our GMT (E series) is fabulous and there is one currently on eBay for a great price (~ 3.5 hours left!). But I need a different frequency. I think I'll get a GM3 as one is available locally. I'll report back whatever I find sometime down the road (or write an article and post of a website). It's great to hear that I can chest mount it because our GMT is not removable. My Minelab is great in that respect. I just need to get to the DU meetings and talk with you guys. I want to learn about using different coils and discuss the Gold Bug(s) some more. For sure, my big handicap is ground coverage. I'm not very efficient digging targets. At least most of my finds have been on the surface... One last thing. I heard a rumor that one of the major companies is bringing out a detector designed strictly for meteorites that only detects nickel. Considering how little metallic nickel is present in meteorites, I doesn't sound feasible to me. But I really don't know the theory behind metal detectors, whether it's the metal or iron mineralization that sets off the detector. Has anyone heard about this? It just sounds too easy. Thanks again all for your ideas! Take care, Mark - Original Message - From: "goldmaster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "minador" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Need help picking a metal detector. > Hi Mark and All > > The use of an autoground balance metal detector for stones is generally > fruitless . The GMT has manual ground balance capabilities and is best to > hunt in that mode . I think the detectors of choice for hunting low iron > stones would be the manual ground balance gold machines . I think the best > bang for the buck is the goldmaster series . My preference is the GM3 . The > GM3 and GM4 are the same detector . The only real difference is the GM4 has > a touch pad display and the box on most is not removable from the wand . > Making a lot of extra work on your arm on a full day of beepin . The > goldmaster 2, Vsat and GM3 have similar sensetivity and features . The GM3 > and has a variable frequency which will allow you to litterally hunt between > the legs of the person using other goldmaster products with litterally no > interferance . They all are capable of having the boxes removed and harnes > or belt mounted . They all except the very early goldmaster 2 models are > capable of useing the larger seirra goldmax coil . The old style goldmaster > 2 has a 1/4 inch coil bolt and will require an upgraded wand to accomidate > the seirra goldmax coil that takes a 3/8 inch coil bolt . Allowing a larger > sweep and deeper detection depth . I have used the gold bug 2 and found it's > higher frequency more unstable in more mineralized ground . Especially in > and around the basalts you are hunting . But it's still a good detector for > hunting stones just a bit noisier . I think all of these detectors can be > found for under $300 dollars used . The goldbug 2 also has a large coil > available . On a final note the area you are hunting the vast majority of > finds are on the surface or very shallow . So depth isn't that much of a > factor more ground coverage will lead to better results !! Happy Hunting > John Blennert > - Original Message - > From: "minador" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 10:12 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Need help picking a metal detector. > > > > Hi List, > > > > I'm in need for a second detector. Recently I have been using my dad's > > White's GMT. It seems to do pretty well. I've found 4 little ones with > it > > (although they were on the surface). I've seen the Fisher Gold Bug do > well > > at finding some buried ones and it always sounds off nicely (better than > > GMT). The Minelab that I have used over the years for gold prospecting > > doesn't cut it with respect to chondrites. It gives a poor yelp (IF it's > > about 1" away from a stony). If it's any further away there's no > indication > > whatsoever, so I need something else. > > > > I have been thinking of getting a Fisher Gold Bug-2. Does anybody have > any > > comments about
[meteorite-list] Need help picking a metal detector.
Hi List, I'm in need for a second detector. Recently I have been using my dad's White's GMT. It seems to do pretty well. I've found 4 little ones with it (although they were on the surface). I've seen the Fisher Gold Bug do well at finding some buried ones and it always sounds off nicely (better than GMT). The Minelab that I have used over the years for gold prospecting doesn't cut it with respect to chondrites. It gives a poor yelp (IF it's about 1" away from a stony). If it's any further away there's no indication whatsoever, so I need something else. I have been thinking of getting a Fisher Gold Bug-2. Does anybody have any comments about this machine? I'm wondering if any of the "improvements" are detrimental to meteorite hunting (although good for nugget hunting). Is an original Gold Bug better? I like the GMT, but I want something with a different frequency so I can hunt along side with my dad. The GMT is really a pleasure to use. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Feel free to contact me off list if you don't want to tie up the list, or don't want to publicly share your ideas which may be "controversial". Lot's of ducks on this list (if I got that phrase right). Happy hunting/collecting! Mark Mark A. Bowling 13630 E GARIGANS GULCH VAIL, AZ 85641-6068 (520) 647-3618 o(:-) What we do not grow or hunt for, we must MINE from the earth! <>< __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Eureka! (& some soapbox)
Hi List, A friend took me to his meteorite hunting spot on Friday, and I finally found some meteorites! Not one but 2. What was really cool was that the first one was a 3.8g iron and the second was an 18.1g stony! What are the chances of that?! I would not have found these without a metal detector (although the stony might have been found with a magnet, but the iron was deep). I don't want to name the friend or his spot for the fear that he will be inundated by requests for guided tours. The iron looks to be a twin of several of the Taza irons I have in my collection, so I'm pretty sure it's a meteorite. The stony is unmistakable. What would I have to do to have them classified? I imagine most of each specimen would be lost in the process. Is it important that I get them classified or are these smaller specimens unimportant in this regard? Now for the soap box: Unfortunately we found numerous ATV tracks in a "motor-less" area. My friend hadn't seen any tracks before. I hope this doesn't get the area closed off to meteorite hunting. This is exactly the type of activity that results in more restrictions. I personally don't believe that it has any significant impact on the ecosystem, but it is a violation of the Law and could have unfortunate consequences. It wouldn't bother me much, but I have seen the same thing at Willcox Playa so it could be a growing problem. I imagine that many of the tracks at Willcox were from ATVers in general, but I notice that every conspicuous rock had numerous tracks leading to them. This was in the BLM strip of the Playa which is closed to all vehicle traffic. I would hope that most ethical hunters would mention this to hunting partners or other parties engaging in illegal activity while in the field. It only hurts the hobby. End of editorial comment; proceed. Well, I hope that this will encourage you "unsuccessful" hunters out there! My fatigue and discouragement quickly disappeared after my friend found his first stony. (Was there hope for me?) Then he found a small iron. They're here! (but it can't happen to me...can it?) Then came my iron and soon after, in the same area, my stony. After that I could have continued for hours more, but it was getting late. My friend topped off the day with a 120g stony as we headed back to camp. Keep at it and don't give up. If you're finding lead shot and zipper teeth, you'll find meteorites if they are there! Happy hunting! Mark (meteorite finder) Bowling Mark A. Bowling 13630 E GARIGANS GULCH VAIL, AZ 85641-6068 (520) 647-3618 o(:-) What we do not grow or hunt for, we must MINE from the earth! <>< __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] RE: Escoria / boxes
Michael Blood wrote: > > I do think your recent comment on it was > very interesting and provided thorough clarification. I agree, thanks for the GREAT follow up Norm! Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] More on Shipping, etc.
Hi All, My current job requires a lot of shipping. We average about 50 shipments a day so I've seen some real horror stories... Regarding the "fragile" warning Michael mentioned, our UPS guy warned us to not write any warnings on the boxes. They're having a lot of labor relations issues right now. I didn't know the same problem existed with the USPS, but it doesn't surprise me. Thanks for the warning Michael. UPS does a pretty good job for us, but smaller padded envelopes tend to get lost more frequently. Our smaller stuff goes USPS except when we require tracking (for a very large or suspicious order). We found that we saved about $4 per order, so it's worth the trip to the post (UPS comes to our door). We haven't had any orders lost since this became our policy (about 1.5 years). So it doesn't seem to be risky to use first class w/o confirmation (although it's an easy choice when using company funds). When shipping for yourself, it is a more difficult decision. Regarding survivability, I found that the combination of oversized boxes and a lot of padding is the key. Even though a box can be driven over (happens every few months), you would be surprised to find that most items won't be damaged if properly packaged. And when you think about it, a slightly oversized box isn't going to change the weight significantly. Plus if you buy your boxes in bulk, a slightly larger size will only be 2 or 3 cents extra per unit. For some of the more fragile items, we'll double box, (even small items). As a manufacturer, the cost is worth the peace of mind and saved time. Not to mention making life easier for our customers. I have never received a damaged meteorite. Only once have I received a severely damaged box (Priority mail). Since the Hupe's packaged the meteorites carefully, there was no danger to them. I have received some shipments that have made me worry. Had an envelope been torn or crushed, the specimens would have been severely damaged (more likely lost). I've received some international shipments that fell into the same category. Luckily none of them have been abused by the shipper. To be fair, most of those (domestic) dealers charged very little for shipping. So I suppose I received what I paid for. An aside for the dealers: If description cards are placed inside a zip lock baggie with a meteorite, they are usually damaged in some way. For most collectors that's probably not an issue. I hope that my company's policies aren't impractical or too expensive for most on this list. I hope many will find my comments useful, and maybe the points given by all to date will help prevent damage to precious specimens. I personally think that what I pay for meteorites is a bargain, and that customer service is exceptional 99.9% of the time. I very much appreciate all the dealers who have sold me beautiful specimens the last couple of years. Keep up the great work! Happy hunting/collecting/selling/studying, etc., Mark Mark A. Bowling VAIL, AZ - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] RE: Escoria / boxes In a message dated 4/20/2004 2:34:53 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is one of the primary reasons I send EVERYTHING Priority Mail. It is very safely boxed. (exceptions are use of Registered Mail, in boxes, for overseas and material over $1,000 in value) This post is NOT meant to be a MICHAEL BLOOD justification: It IS meant to point out the virtues of priority mail. It's the BOX, folks, it's the box! Not exactly. I sent one of those boxes to a very good customer who emailed me as soon as he received it. He wanted to tell me that he had found the box in his mail box, flat as a pancake, with tire tracks across it. Worse, he knew very well that the box contained a thin-section! Happily the thin-section was in a plastic box, wrapped in lots of bubble-wrap and intact! So I say it is the Bubble-Wrap, I use so much of it my packages should float :-) Anne M. Black __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Boorish Comments on A Tektite Web Page
Dear Keith, list and Norm, Keith wrote: > In my opinion, the "footnote" is a classic > examples of how the actions of arrogant, self-righteous > ill-tempered people poison the relationships between > collectors and scientists. I think the "acrimony and disharmony between collectors and (SOME) scientists" is more an issue of greed than true concern for the preservation of material of scientific interest. Even scientist can be greedy and want it all for themselves. Not just those with commercial interests. If it wasn't for the "amateurs", our knowledge of meteorites wouldn't even be near what it is today. At one point scientists scoffed at the idea that rocks fell from the sky. And that by using some common sense field techniques, they were readily collectible. Sure they've had their Antarctic expeditions, but they've lagged behind the curve and always will. Commercial activity is typically what leads to discoveries. Very few world class mineral deposits have been discovered by academics or corporate geologists. Most have been discovered by the lonely prospector. Their hope to find material that could be sold for profit is what drove them. So it is the same here. I believe Norm was only expressing his frustration experienced by a lot of boot leather geologists. I don't think Norm's comments or activity will poison the relationship between scientists & collectors. I think most scientists appreciate "field hunters". I would like to hear what Norm has to say (and any meteoriticists). Respectfully, Mark Bowling Vail, AZ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] "Voyage!" magazines
Hi Gregory, Could you please explain what Voyage! magazine covers. After I saw a reference to it, I tried to do a search on the web a few months back, but didn't find anything useful. Thanks, Mark Mark A. Bowling 13630 E GARIGANS GULCH VAIL, AZ 85641-6068 (520) 647-3618 o(:-) What we do not grow or hunt for, we must MINE from the earth! <>< - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 4:23 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] "Voyage!" magazines I'm "filtering out" my back issues of "Voyage!" Magazine - if anyone has been wanting a specific issue, chances are I might have it.and it's yours for the price of postage. Gregory J. Gregory Wilson 2118 Wilshire Blvd. #918 Santa Monica, CA 90403 USA (310) 913-2598 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
