subject:"\[meteorite\-list\] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest"


HI,
I guess I should correct myself before someone else does. 
When I read the initial report about the direction of the fall I misinterpreted its message, and somehow turned a N.E. approach into a S.E. approach in my mind, accounting for my total perplexity! The relevant satellite information does no indicate the opposite of what I thought after all, but is slightly skewed to the east.
This is only a minor adjustment, and brings about a whole new hunting perspective! Perhaps it's time to go get another rock or two.  : )
Regards,
Larry

Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest




Yes, and is not Chicago called "The Windy City" ? 

We are not talking a very far off course. The 
smaller stones seem to be less than a quarter to half mile to the east, that is 
nothing when something is falling from space. Steger is just on the other side 
of the road from Park Forest, not really like out west here where one town is 30 
or 40 miles to the next. To me this strewnfield looks absolutely perfect, if not 
just a tad scewed like (I think) by the wind. 
Mike Farmer

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Rob 
  Wesel 
  To: Michael Farmer ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:40 
PM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD 
  Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest
  
  The DOD says the fireball went like this 
  /
  The recovery of pieces say they fell like this 
  \
  The overlay then looks like this X or this 
  ^
  Mike's high winds could support the ^ overlay 
  with Olympia Fields being the apex, the largest stones are from that 
  area.
  But those winds would have to be really blowing 
  to whip ALL the smalls to the other side.
  What a nifty deal.--Rob 
  Wesel--We are the music makers...and we are the 
  dreamers of the dreams.Willy Wonka, 1971
   
   
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Michael 
Farmer 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:07 
PM
    Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD 
Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

Also, if the fall is SW to NE, and so far we 
see most small stones to the south and south east of the large stones, would 
this not also be affected by upper level winds? High winds can cause the 
smaller stones to drift, meaning that this strewnfield would thus be 
perfectly normal. 
 
Yes, strewnfields can be reversed, Portales 
Valley was a perfect example, without exception, the largest stones all fell 
to the back and the small stones fell later. This is due to low exploding of 
the meteorite forcing the larger stones down. 
Mike Farmer

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:54 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD 
  Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest
  Hi Al,Yes I saw the the meteorwrongs in his 
  collection too, it was a bit disappointing, but he did not try very hard 
  to convince me that they were meteorites when I told him they were slag. I 
  asked if he was including them in his data and he said no. Is that really 
  true? I don't know. He did have some nice individuals and fragments 
  however, and claimed his strewn field info came from real meteorites,some 
  gathered by people whose names I recognized.Some of the  coordinates 
  included a bunch that were sold by the local Postmaster, who supposedly 
  got most of his stones from another man I met out there that was a local, 
  and rather proficient at finding the stones in the opening days of the 
  fall.Even though Atul may not be completely reliable, the fact remains 
  that the larger stones are N.W. of the smaller ones, contradicting the 
  Satellite info unless of course there is such a thing as a reverse 
  fall!  Adam, I never heard of that, is this like the April fools joke 
  about Venus? Please elaborate on this, I would like to know what falls 
  have a reverse distribution of material, that seems to defy the rules! 
  Mass and velocity, blah blah... you know, that physics stuff How can it 
  possibly be 
backward?Larry

Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest




The DOD says the fireball went like this 
/
The recovery of pieces say they fell like this 
\
The overlay then looks like this X or this 
^
Mike's high winds could support the ^ overlay with 
Olympia Fields being the apex, the largest stones are from that 
area.
But those winds would have to be really blowing to 
whip ALL the smalls to the other side.
What a nifty deal.--Rob 
Wesel--We are the music makers...and we are the dreamers 
of the dreams.Willy Wonka, 1971
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Michael 
  Farmer 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:07 
PM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD 
  Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest
  
  Also, if the fall is SW to NE, and so far we see 
  most small stones to the south and south east of the large stones, would this 
  not also be affected by upper level winds? High winds can cause the smaller 
  stones to drift, meaning that this strewnfield would thus be perfectly normal. 
  
   
  Yes, strewnfields can be reversed, Portales 
  Valley was a perfect example, without exception, the largest stones all fell 
  to the back and the small stones fell later. This is due to low exploding of 
  the meteorite forcing the larger stones down. 
  Mike Farmer
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:54 
PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD 
Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest
Hi Al,Yes I saw the the meteorwrongs in his 
collection too, it was a bit disappointing, but he did not try very hard to 
convince me that they were meteorites when I told him they were slag. I 
asked if he was including them in his data and he said no. Is that really 
true? I don't know. He did have some nice individuals and fragments 
however, and claimed his strewn field info came from real meteorites,some 
gathered by people whose names I recognized.Some of the  coordinates 
included a bunch that were sold by the local Postmaster, who supposedly got 
most of his stones from another man I met out there that was a local, and 
rather proficient at finding the stones in the opening days of the 
fall.Even though Atul may not be completely reliable, the fact remains 
that the larger stones are N.W. of the smaller ones, contradicting the 
Satellite info unless of course there is such a thing as a reverse 
fall!  Adam, I never heard of that, is this like the April fools joke 
about Venus? Please elaborate on this, I would like to know what falls have 
a reverse distribution of material, that seems to defy the rules! Mass and 
velocity, blah blah... you know, that physics stuff How can it possibly be 
backward?Larry

Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

Mike,
Good answer, I was unaware of the Portales Valleys' peculiar entry. The way you just explained it makes perfect sense though.
There's my leaning lesson for the day!
Thanks,
Larry

Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest




Hello Again, to back up my last email;
"With such a steep entry angle the biggest pieces would not 
have to be at the far end of the strewn field. The momentum that caries bigger 
pieces further would not be a factor, they would be rather random."
 
If you shoot the same rifle twice with two different 
bullet weights at the same velocity at bull's-eye two hundred yards the heaver 
bullet will hit higher than the smaller bullet. But, if instead you shoot the 
gun at a target 25 yards away they will hit the same spot. 
If you shoot the gun at the ground at a 70% angle, they will also hit the same 
spot. 
Thanks, TomPeregrineflierThe proudest member of the IMCA 6168

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Tom aka James Knudson 
  To: Adam Hupe ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:57 
PM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD 
  Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest
  
  Hi List, If you think about it a second. : ) With such a 
  steep entry angle the biggest pieces would not have to be at the far end of 
  the strewn field. The momentum that caries bigger pieces further would not be 
  a factor, they would be rather random.
  Thanks, TomPeregrineflierThe proudest member of the IMCA 
  6168
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Adam 
Hupe 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:41 
PM
    Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD 
Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

Hi Mike and List,
 
I am repeating what I was told by a very 
informed source and I agree it doesn't make sense.  Since I have only 
seen three partial plots that need to be merged I can not see the reversal 
effect that is being authored by another List member, maybe he will 
comment.  What I did notice is three large clusters or 
concentrations on the plots which I found very interesting.  Now that 
the direction issue has been solved I wish they would have reported the 
retardation altitude.
 
 
All the best,
 
Adam
 
  

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Michael Farmer 
  To: Adam 
  Hupe ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:31 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD 
      Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest
  
  The Portales Valley and Johnstown 
  Strewnfields were backwards. 
  I am confused about Park Forest though, the 
  larger pieces were all in the center to northern part of the strewnfield, 
  if the firebass came from the southwest to the northeast, would this not 
  make it perfectly correct? 
  Mike Farmer
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Adam 
Hupe 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:17 
PM
    Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD 
    Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

Dear List Members,
 
It looks like some are starting to realize 
the secret of the Park Forest strewnfield, it is reversed.  I think 
this has happened only a couple times in history.  I hinted at this 
in a June 15th post to the list not wanting to take the element of 
surprise away from a person who is authoring a paper on this very 
subject.
 
All the best,
 
Adam
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:01 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD 
      Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest
  Hello Folks,This whole thing 
  has me a bit perplexed for several reasons. First, the stone my 
  brother and I recovered had a distinct angle of entry that I saw and 
  documented, and passed on to Mr. Sipiera. That trajectory definately 
  indicated that the offending stone came in from the S.E. and was 
  heading in a N.W. direction. I determined this before ever being 
  subjected to other theoriesof direction of entry. I also spoke with 
  eyewitnesses in the days that followed and all backed up that 
  conclusion.On a second trip I met with a man named Atul Kumar, He 
  isn't a scientist but he has been gathering info on the strewn field 
  for the astronomy club that he is involved with. He has compiled quite 
  a list/map of stones that were recovered, including weights and 
  locations of recovery, and his map indicates the same S.E. to N.W. 
  direction, with the larger stones coming from the N.W. end of the 
  strewn field. Of course I can't argue with the DOD satellite 
  observation, but it sure is c

Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

In a message dated 7/8/2003 11:59:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Hi List, If you think about it a second. : ) With such a steep entry angle the biggest pieces would not have to be at the far end of the strewn field. The momentum that caries bigger pieces further would not be a factor, they would be rather random

Tom,
The strewn field data proves otherwise, there is a distribution according to weight as best I can see.

Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest




Also, if the fall is SW to NE, and so far we see 
most small stones to the south and south east of the large stones, would this 
not also be affected by upper level winds? High winds can cause the smaller 
stones to drift, meaning that this strewnfield would thus be perfectly normal. 

 
Yes, strewnfields can be reversed, Portales Valley 
was a perfect example, without exception, the largest stones all fell to the 
back and the small stones fell later. This is due to low exploding of the 
meteorite forcing the larger stones down. 
Mike Farmer

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:54 
PM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD 
  Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest
  Hi Al,Yes I saw the the meteorwrongs in his 
  collection too, it was a bit disappointing, but he did not try very hard to 
  convince me that they were meteorites when I told him they were slag. I asked 
  if he was including them in his data and he said no. Is that really true? I 
  don't know. He did have some nice individuals and fragments however, and 
  claimed his strewn field info came from real meteorites,some gathered by 
  people whose names I recognized.Some of the  coordinates included a bunch 
  that were sold by the local Postmaster, who supposedly got most of his stones 
  from another man I met out there that was a local, and rather proficient at 
  finding the stones in the opening days of the fall.Even though Atul may 
  not be completely reliable, the fact remains that the larger stones are N.W. 
  of the smaller ones, contradicting the Satellite info unless of course 
  there is such a thing as a reverse fall!  Adam, I never heard of that, is 
  this like the April fools joke about Venus? Please elaborate on this, I would 
  like to know what falls have a reverse distribution of material, that seems to 
  defy the rules! Mass and velocity, blah blah... you know, that physics stuff 
  How can it possibly be 
backward?Larry

Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest




Hi List, If you think about it a second. : ) With such a steep 
entry angle the biggest pieces would not have to be at the far end of the strewn 
field. The momentum that caries bigger pieces further would not be a factor, 
they would be rather random.
Thanks, TomPeregrineflierThe proudest member of the IMCA 6168

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Adam Hupe 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:41 
PM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD 
  Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest
  
  Hi Mike and List,
   
  I am repeating what I was told by a very informed 
  source and I agree it doesn't make sense.  Since I have only seen three 
  partial plots that need to be merged I can not see the reversal effect that is 
  being authored by another List member, maybe he will comment.  What I did 
  notice is three large clusters or concentrations on the plots which I 
  found very interesting.  Now that the direction issue has been solved I 
  wish they would have reported the retardation altitude.
   
   
  All the best,
   
  Adam
   
    
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Michael 
Farmer 
To: Adam Hupe 
; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:31 
PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD 
Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

The Portales Valley and Johnstown Strewnfields 
were backwards. 
I am confused about Park Forest though, the 
larger pieces were all in the center to northern part of the strewnfield, if 
the firebass came from the southwest to the northeast, would this not make 
it perfectly correct? 
Mike Farmer

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Adam 
  Hupe 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:17 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD 
  Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest
  
  Dear List Members,
   
  It looks like some are starting to realize 
  the secret of the Park Forest strewnfield, it is reversed.  I think 
  this has happened only a couple times in history.  I hinted at this 
  in a June 15th post to the list not wanting to take the element of 
  surprise away from a person who is authoring a paper on this very 
  subject.
   
  All the best,
   
  Adam
   
   
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:01 
PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD 
    Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest
Hello Folks,This whole thing has me a 
bit perplexed for several reasons. First, the stone my brother and I 
recovered had a distinct angle of entry that I saw and documented, and 
passed on to Mr. Sipiera. That trajectory definately indicated that the 
offending stone came in from the S.E. and was heading in a N.W. 
direction. I determined this before ever being subjected to other 
theoriesof direction of entry. I also spoke with eyewitnesses in the 
days that followed and all backed up that conclusion.On a second 
trip I met with a man named Atul Kumar, He isn't a scientist but he has 
been gathering info on the strewn field for the astronomy club that he 
is involved with. He has compiled quite a list/map of stones that were 
recovered, including weights and locations of recovery, and his map 
indicates the same S.E. to N.W. direction, with the larger stones coming 
from the N.W. end of the strewn field. Of course I can't argue with 
the DOD satellite observation, but it sure is contradictory to what I've 
been thinking all along! The satellite indicates an entry of exactly the 
opposite of what the strewn field maps look like that I have seen, and 
my own recoveries, 70 gram stone in Steger, 638gram stone in P.F. 
indicate at the very least a South to North trajectory, (roughly).No 
matter how you slice it, based on the DOD satellite info, the larger 
stones should be south of the small ones, and this is just not the 
case.Is human error possible, between interpretation of the 
satellite data and publication of said information?Curious minds 
want to know,Larry

Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest


Hi Al,
Yes I saw the the meteorwrongs in his collection too, it was a bit disappointing, but he did not try very hard to convince me that they were meteorites when I told him they were slag. I asked if he was including them in his data and he said no. Is that really true? I don't know. 
He did have some nice individuals and fragments however, and claimed his strewn field info came from real meteorites,some gathered by people whose names I recognized.Some of the  coordinates included a bunch that were sold by the local Postmaster, who supposedly got most of his stones from another man I met out there that was a local, and rather proficient at finding the stones in the opening days of the fall.
Even though Atul may not be completely reliable, the fact remains that the larger stones are N.W. of the smaller ones, contradicting the Satellite info unless of course there is such a thing as a reverse fall!  Adam, I never heard of that, is this like the April fools joke about Venus? Please elaborate on this, I would like to know what falls have a reverse distribution of material, that seems to defy the rules! Mass and velocity, blah blah... you know, that physics stuff How can it possibly be backward?
Larry

Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest




Glad to hear that, perhaps, I am not going 
insane!--Rob Wesel--We are the music 
makers...and we are the dreamers of the dreams.Willy Wonka, 
1971
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Adam Hupe 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:17 
PM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD 
  Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest
  
  Dear List Members,
   
  It looks like some are starting to realize the 
  secret of the Park Forest strewnfield, it is reversed.  I think this has 
  happened only a couple times in history.  I hinted at this in a June 15th 
  post to the list not wanting to take the element of surprise away from a 
  person who is authoring a paper on this very subject.
   
  All the best,
   
  Adam
   
   
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:01 
PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD 
Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest
Hello Folks,This whole thing has me a bit 
perplexed for several reasons. First, the stone my brother and I recovered 
had a distinct angle of entry that I saw and documented, and passed on to 
Mr. Sipiera. That trajectory definately indicated that the offending stone 
came in from the S.E. and was heading in a N.W. direction. I determined this 
before ever being subjected to other theoriesof direction of entry. I also 
spoke with eyewitnesses in the days that followed and all backed up that 
conclusion.On a second trip I met with a man named Atul Kumar, He isn't 
a scientist but he has been gathering info on the strewn field for the 
astronomy club that he is involved with. He has compiled quite a list/map of 
stones that were recovered, including weights and locations of recovery, and 
his map indicates the same S.E. to N.W. direction, with the larger stones 
coming from the N.W. end of the strewn field. Of course I can't argue 
with the DOD satellite observation, but it sure is contradictory to what 
I've been thinking all along! The satellite indicates an entry of exactly 
the opposite of what the strewn field maps look like that I have seen, and 
my own recoveries, 70 gram stone in Steger, 638gram stone in P.F. indicate 
at the very least a South to North trajectory, (roughly).No matter how 
you slice it, based on the DOD satellite info, the larger stones should be 
south of the small ones, and this is just not the case.Is human error 
possible, between interpretation of the satellite data and publication of 
said information?Curious minds want to know,Larry

Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

2003-07-08 Thread Adam Hupe




Hi Mike and List,
 
I am repeating what I was told by a very informed 
source and I agree it doesn't make sense.  Since I have only seen three 
partial plots that need to be merged I can not see the reversal effect that is 
being authored by another List member, maybe he will comment.  What I did 
notice is three large clusters or concentrations on the plots which I found 
very interesting.  Now that the direction issue has been solved I wish they 
would have reported the retardation altitude.
 
 
All the best,
 
Adam
 
  

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Michael 
  Farmer 
  To: Adam Hupe ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:31 
PM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD 
  Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest
  
  The Portales Valley and Johnstown Strewnfields 
  were backwards. 
  I am confused about Park Forest though, the 
  larger pieces were all in the center to northern part of the strewnfield, if 
  the firebass came from the southwest to the northeast, would this not make it 
  perfectly correct? 
  Mike Farmer
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Adam 
Hupe 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:17 
PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD 
Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

Dear List Members,
 
It looks like some are starting to realize the 
secret of the Park Forest strewnfield, it is reversed.  I think this 
has happened only a couple times in history.  I hinted at this in a 
June 15th post to the list not wanting to take the element of surprise away 
from a person who is authoring a paper on this very subject.
 
All the best,
 
Adam
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:01 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD 
  Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest
  Hello Folks,This whole thing has me a 
  bit perplexed for several reasons. First, the stone my brother and I 
  recovered had a distinct angle of entry that I saw and documented, and 
  passed on to Mr. Sipiera. That trajectory definately indicated that the 
  offending stone came in from the S.E. and was heading in a N.W. direction. 
  I determined this before ever being subjected to other theoriesof 
  direction of entry. I also spoke with eyewitnesses in the days that 
  followed and all backed up that conclusion.On a second trip I met with 
  a man named Atul Kumar, He isn't a scientist but he has been gathering 
  info on the strewn field for the astronomy club that he is involved with. 
  He has compiled quite a list/map of stones that were recovered, including 
  weights and locations of recovery, and his map indicates the same S.E. to 
  N.W. direction, with the larger stones coming from the N.W. end of the 
  strewn field. Of course I can't argue with the DOD satellite 
  observation, but it sure is contradictory to what I've been thinking all 
  along! The satellite indicates an entry of exactly the opposite of what 
  the strewn field maps look like that I have seen, and my own recoveries, 
  70 gram stone in Steger, 638gram stone in P.F. indicate at the very least 
  a South to North trajectory, (roughly).No matter how you slice it, 
  based on the DOD satellite info, the larger stones should be south of the 
  small ones, and this is just not the case.Is human error possible, 
  between interpretation of the satellite data and publication of said 
  information?Curious minds want to know,Larry

Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest




The Portales Valley and Johnstown Strewnfields were 
backwards. 
I am confused about Park Forest though, the larger 
pieces were all in the center to northern part of the strewnfield, if the 
firebass came from the southwest to the northeast, would this not make it 
perfectly correct? 
Mike Farmer

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Adam Hupe 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:17 
PM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD 
  Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest
  
  Dear List Members,
   
  It looks like some are starting to realize the 
  secret of the Park Forest strewnfield, it is reversed.  I think this has 
  happened only a couple times in history.  I hinted at this in a June 15th 
  post to the list not wanting to take the element of surprise away from a 
  person who is authoring a paper on this very subject.
   
  All the best,
   
  Adam
   
   
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:01 
PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD 
Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest
Hello Folks,This whole thing has me a bit 
perplexed for several reasons. First, the stone my brother and I recovered 
had a distinct angle of entry that I saw and documented, and passed on to 
Mr. Sipiera. That trajectory definately indicated that the offending stone 
came in from the S.E. and was heading in a N.W. direction. I determined this 
before ever being subjected to other theoriesof direction of entry. I also 
spoke with eyewitnesses in the days that followed and all backed up that 
conclusion.On a second trip I met with a man named Atul Kumar, He isn't 
a scientist but he has been gathering info on the strewn field for the 
astronomy club that he is involved with. He has compiled quite a list/map of 
stones that were recovered, including weights and locations of recovery, and 
his map indicates the same S.E. to N.W. direction, with the larger stones 
coming from the N.W. end of the strewn field. Of course I can't argue 
with the DOD satellite observation, but it sure is contradictory to what 
I've been thinking all along! The satellite indicates an entry of exactly 
the opposite of what the strewn field maps look like that I have seen, and 
my own recoveries, 70 gram stone in Steger, 638gram stone in P.F. indicate 
at the very least a South to North trajectory, (roughly).No matter how 
you slice it, based on the DOD satellite info, the larger stones should be 
south of the small ones, and this is just not the case.Is human error 
possible, between interpretation of the satellite data and publication of 
said information?Curious minds want to know,Larry

Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

2003-07-08 Thread almitt

Hi Larry and all,

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On a second trip I met with a man named Atul Kumar, He isn't a scientist but he has
been gathering info on the strewn field for the astronomy club that he is involved
with. He has compiled quite a list/map of stones that were recovered, including
weights and locations of recovery, and his map indicates the same S.E. to N.W.
direction, with the larger stones coming from the N.W. end of the strewn field.

Atul is a interesting individual and means well but out of all the specimens he had
gathered, I look at several hundred of his pieces and all were slag's that are found
in the area. He then wanted some cut to verify which I did. Very vesicular and not
meteoritic at all. Ironically some do have bits of metal embedded in them but no doubt
from the steel mills or some other fabrication places from the area. No doubt used as
fill and so forth in the region. He did have a couple of nice individuals that were
real and interviewed a number of people who had stones fall in their yard.

His data might be incorrect if he is including the non-meteorites which I examined and
had a hard time convincing him they were not related to the fall. All my best!

--AL


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Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

2003-07-08 Thread Adam Hupe




Dear List Members,
 
It looks like some are starting to realize the 
secret of the Park Forest strewnfield, it is reversed.  I think this has 
happened only a couple times in history.  I hinted at this in a June 15th 
post to the list not wanting to take the element of surprise away from a person 
who is authoring a paper on this very subject.
 
All the best,
 
Adam
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:01 
PM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD 
  Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest
  Hello Folks,This whole thing has me a bit 
  perplexed for several reasons. First, the stone my brother and I recovered had 
  a distinct angle of entry that I saw and documented, and passed on to Mr. 
  Sipiera. That trajectory definately indicated that the offending stone came in 
  from the S.E. and was heading in a N.W. direction. I determined this before 
  ever being subjected to other theoriesof direction of entry. I also spoke with 
  eyewitnesses in the days that followed and all backed up that 
  conclusion.On a second trip I met with a man named Atul Kumar, He isn't a 
  scientist but he has been gathering info on the strewn field for the astronomy 
  club that he is involved with. He has compiled quite a list/map of stones that 
  were recovered, including weights and locations of recovery, and his map 
  indicates the same S.E. to N.W. direction, with the larger stones coming from 
  the N.W. end of the strewn field. Of course I can't argue with the DOD 
  satellite observation, but it sure is contradictory to what I've been thinking 
  all along! The satellite indicates an entry of exactly the opposite of what 
  the strewn field maps look like that I have seen, and my own recoveries, 70 
  gram stone in Steger, 638gram stone in P.F. indicate at the very least a South 
  to North trajectory, (roughly).No matter how you slice it, based on the 
  DOD satellite info, the larger stones should be south of the small ones, and 
  this is just not the case.Is human error possible, between interpretation 
  of the satellite data and publication of said information?Curious minds 
  want to know,Larry

Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

Hello Folks,

This whole thing has me a bit perplexed for several reasons. First, the stone my brother and I recovered had a distinct angle of entry that I saw and documented, and passed on to Mr. Sipiera. That trajectory definately indicated that the offending stone came in from the S.E. and was heading in a N.W. direction. I determined this before ever being subjected to other theoriesof direction of entry. I also spoke with eyewitnesses in the days that followed and all backed up that conclusion.
On a second trip I met with a man named Atul Kumar, He isn't a scientist but he has been gathering info on the strewn field for the astronomy club that he is involved with. He has compiled quite a list/map of stones that were recovered, including weights and locations of recovery, and his map indicates the same S.E. to N.W. direction, with the larger stones coming from the N.W. end of the strewn field.
Of course I can't argue with the DOD satellite observation, but it sure is contradictory to what I've been thinking all along! The satellite indicates an entry of exactly the opposite of what the strewn field maps look like that I have seen, and my own recoveries, 70 gram stone in Steger, 638gram stone in P.F. indicate at the very least a South to North trajectory, (roughly).
No matter how you slice it, based on the DOD satellite info, the larger stones should be south of the small ones, and this is just not the case.
Is human error possible, between interpretation of the satellite data and publication of said information?
Curious minds want to know,
Larry

Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

2003-07-08 Thread Sterling K. Webb

Hi,

A little geometry here, gentlemen. The "aiming point" is not the center of
the strewn field. Assuming that fragments from the breakup have randomized
perpendicular vectors, you have a cone of dispersal oriented along the flight
plan.
Since the flight path is roughly 30% off the vertical, the cone of
dispersal intersects the ground at a 30% angle also. The largest portion of
the strewn field ellipse will be NNE (22.3 degree azimuth is almost perfectly
NNE, which is 22.5 degrees) of the aiming point.
Since Park Forest is six or seven miles SSW of the aiming point, one would
expect the larger NNE portion to extend for 10 to 12 miles NNE from the aiming
point. That line runs (roughly) through Flossmoor, Homewood, Harvey,
Riverdale, one mile west of I-94 from 115th St. up to 103rd St. before ending.

HOWEVER, one must not assume that the majority of the fragments shed or
dispersed originated solely with the final breakup. In fact, the final breakup
may have produced no fragments at all (total burn up)! There were obviously
earlier breakups which occurred further "up" the flight path and whose cones
of dispersal would have been shifted to the SSW.
If the fragments collected in Park Forest were from the "final" breakup,
then the strewn field could extend as far NNE as indicated above, but if they
were from an "earlier" breakup the resulting strewn field, while having the
same shape and orientation, would have a more southerly footprint.
If the largest fragments are from Olympia Fields, it would appear that the
area immediately NNE of Olympia Fields would have larger fragments if it were
part of the strewn field, but it also appears that these areas, being private
golf clubs, were not searched, as I understand it. Did anyone interview the
groundskeepers to see if they had to pick up a bunch of damn rocks off the
fairways?
Since the purpose of these satellites is pinpoint the coordinates and
flight paths of IR-emitting objects and since accuracy is primary (did that
missile come from Kazakhstan or Fiji?), it's silly to imagine it's less
accurate than Park Forest teenagers, pub crawlers, and cops, sincere as their
observations may have been.
And, lastly, as if we needed any more proof of the utter unreliability of
"eye" witnesses...

Sterling K. Webb

Michael Farmer wrote:

> I am going to have to belive the satelite.
> Mike
> - Original Message -
> From: "Steve Witt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: "Meteorite-List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 2:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over
> Park Forest
>
> > Rob,
> >
> > All of the eyewitnesses I interviewed indicated a SE to NW flight
> > path.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > --- Rob Wesel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > The distribution from Olympia Fields/Park Forest to Steger/Beecher
> > > would
> > > argue that the flight path was NW to SE or vice versa. The larger
> > > masses in
> > > the Olympia Fields area would support the former. If they are
> > > correct I was
> > > searching the wrong side of every building. Please enlighten,
> > > --
> > > Rob Wesel
> > > --
> > > We are the music makers...and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
> > > Willy Wonka, 1971
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Ron Baalke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "Meteorite Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 11:17 AM
> > > Subject: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide
> > > Over Park
> > > Forest
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > http://phobos.astro.uwo.ca/~pbrown/usaf/dod231.txt
> > > >
> > > > Fireball Detection
> > > > Department of Defense Announcement
> > > > (courtesy of Peter Brown)
> > > > July 7, 2003
> > > >
> > > > IR sensors aboard US DOD satellites detected the impact of a
> > > bolide over
> > > > Park Forest, Illinois, on 27 March 2003 at 05:50:26 UTC. The
> > > object
> > > > traveled from the SW to the NE on a heading of 22.3 degrees, with
> > > a
> > > > flight path angle of 62.3 degrees from the local horizontal.
> > > > The straight line intersection of the flight path with the ground
> > > was at
> > > > 41.56 North latitude, 87.67 West longitude.  It was possible to
> > > derive a
> > > > velocity for the object of 20 +/- 1 km/sec.  The impact was
> > > simultaneously
> > > > detected by space based visible wavelength sensors operated by
> > > the US
> > > > Department of Energy.  From these sensors the total radiated
> > > energy was
> > > > estimated at 1.4 X 10^11 joules.
> > > >
> > >

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Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

I am not debating the DOD satellite data, merely pointing out that the known
fall area, every piece I have heard of, fits a line from Olympia Fields to
Beecher. Hence the vise vera. That line goes NW-SE or SE-NW. I find it
interesting that an opposite trajectory angle has no confirmed recoveries
that I know of. Perhaps one of the Steves, Witt or Arnold IMB, can shed some
light on NE or SW recoveries. Any damage, any finds on a NE-SW line?

For those of you who are not familiar with the area, this will help. The
strewnfield based on reported finds and damage as I know it...NW/SE
http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/imageserver.x//rancor/mapimagecopy.j
pg
I realize in my haste that I put "north" off to the left  a bit when in fact
north is the top of the image.
Again I believe Paul Sipiera is making the master map, and I have not seen
it. While in PF a man named Tim Janecyk was doing nothing but coordinate
mapping with precise map markings that conformed the the linked rough
sketch.

I believe the satellite but where are the meteorites...and why? Even if the
near vertical drop constrained the fall, I see no remenants of the
documented trajectory in the fall pattern.

Very puzzled,

--
Rob Wesel
--
We are the music makers...and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971



- Original Message -
From: "Ron Baalke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Meteorite Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over
Park Forest


> >
> > The distribution from Olympia Fields/Park Forest to Steger/Beecher would
> > argue that the flight path was NW to SE or vice versa.
>
> Or vice versa?  That's 180 degrees in the opposite direction!   It is
interesting
> you report that way though. It may be an observing effect depending on
whether
> the fireball was observed from north or south its flight path.
>
> Note that the DOD satellite measured the flight path angle at 62 degrees
from
> the horizontal, or 28 degrees from the vertical.  That means the meteorite
fall
> was more vertical than horizontal.  I think this somewhat vertical flight
path
> may have made judging the flight direction
> more difficult from the ground, maybe creating an optical illusion effect.
It is already
> well-documented the difficulty in judging the distance to fireballs from a
single
> location.   Even if the true flight path was SW to NE as the DOD data
indicates, and this
> would extend the strewnfield out to a larger size along the flight path
direction,
> the near-vertical drop does constrain the size of the strewnfield ellipse.
>
> I'm very heavily inclined to believe the DOD satellite measurements are
more accurate than
> the ground observations anyway, because the satellite was designed to
accurately
> record these type of details.
>
> Ron Baalke
>
>
>
> __
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Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

2003-07-08 Thread MARK BOSTICK

  Rob wrote:   Just try and get into the Olympia Fields Country Club. What a hunting ground it would have been     Hello Rob and list,   Yes, I agree.  Anyone want to join me for a par 87 hole.  I think I could spend enough time looking for a lost ball to drive the cabby crazy.   Mark Bostick www.MeteoriteArticles.com

Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

> 
> Rob,
> 
> All of the eyewitnesses I interviewed indicated a SE to NW flight
> path.

That's consistent with Rob's observations, but the DOD satellite saw it 
traveling SW to NE. I'm not sure why there is a 90 degree discrepancy
in the flight direction between the satellite observations and the 
ground observations.

Ron Baalke


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Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

> 
> The distribution from Olympia Fields/Park Forest to Steger/Beecher would
> argue that the flight path was NW to SE or vice versa. 

Or vice versa?  That's 180 degrees in the opposite direction!   It is interesting
you report that way though. It may be an observing effect depending on whether
the fireball was observed from north or south its flight path.

Note that the DOD satellite measured the flight path angle at 62 degrees from
the horizontal, or 28 degrees from the vertical.  That means the meteorite fall 
was more vertical than horizontal.  I think this somewhat vertical flight path 
may have made judging the flight direction 
more difficult from the ground, maybe creating an optical illusion effect. It is 
already 
well-documented the difficulty in judging the distance to fireballs from a single 
location.   Even if the true flight path was SW to NE as the DOD data indicates, and 
this
would extend the strewnfield out to a larger size along the flight path direction, 
the near-vertical drop does constrain the size of the strewnfield ellipse.

I'm very heavily inclined to believe the DOD satellite measurements are more accurate 
than
the ground observations anyway, because the satellite was designed to accurately 
record these type of details.  

Ron Baalke 



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Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

I am going to have to belive the satelite.
Mike
- Original Message -
From: "Steve Witt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Meteorite-List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over
Park Forest


> Rob,
>
> All of the eyewitnesses I interviewed indicated a SE to NW flight
> path.
>
> Steve
>
>
> --- Rob Wesel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The distribution from Olympia Fields/Park Forest to Steger/Beecher
> > would
> > argue that the flight path was NW to SE or vice versa. The larger
> > masses in
> > the Olympia Fields area would support the former. If they are
> > correct I was
> > searching the wrong side of every building. Please enlighten,
> > --
> > Rob Wesel
> > --
> > We are the music makers...and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
> > Willy Wonka, 1971
> >
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Ron Baalke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Meteorite Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 11:17 AM
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide
> > Over Park
> > Forest
> >
> >
> > >
> > > http://phobos.astro.uwo.ca/~pbrown/usaf/dod231.txt
> > >
> > > Fireball Detection
> > > Department of Defense Announcement
> > > (courtesy of Peter Brown)
> > > July 7, 2003
> > >
> > > IR sensors aboard US DOD satellites detected the impact of a
> > bolide over
> > > Park Forest, Illinois, on 27 March 2003 at 05:50:26 UTC. The
> > object
> > > traveled from the SW to the NE on a heading of 22.3 degrees, with
> > a
> > > flight path angle of 62.3 degrees from the local horizontal.
> > > The straight line intersection of the flight path with the ground
> > was at
> > > 41.56 North latitude, 87.67 West longitude.  It was possible to
> > derive a
> > > velocity for the object of 20 +/- 1 km/sec.  The impact was
> > simultaneously
> > > detected by space based visible wavelength sensors operated by
> > the US
> > > Department of Energy.  From these sensors the total radiated
> > energy was
> > > estimated at 1.4 X 10^11 joules.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > >
> >
> >
> > __
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> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> =
> Steve Witt
> IMCA #9020
>
> http://www.meteoritecollectors.org
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

DOD claims SW to NE, still doesn't fit. Looking from above or below , it
would make the strewnfield an "X".
Distribution is NW - SE.

--
Rob Wesel
--
We are the music makers...and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971



- Original Message -
From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Steve Witt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Rob Wesel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Meteorite-List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over
Park Forest


> Hello List, an easy explanation, on the ground looking up, it would be SE
to
> NW, but from a satellite looking down it would be NW to SE.: )
> Thanks, Tom
> Peregrineflier
> The proudest member of the IMCA 6168
> - Original Message -
> From: Steve Witt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Rob Wesel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: Meteorite-List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 2:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over
> Park Forest
>
>
> > Rob,
> >
> > All of the eyewitnesses I interviewed indicated a SE to NW flight
> > path.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > --- Rob Wesel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > The distribution from Olympia Fields/Park Forest to Steger/Beecher
> > > would
> > > argue that the flight path was NW to SE or vice versa. The larger
> > > masses in
> > > the Olympia Fields area would support the former. If they are
> > > correct I was
> > > searching the wrong side of every building. Please enlighten,
> > > --
> > > Rob Wesel
> > > --
> > > We are the music makers...and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
> > > Willy Wonka, 1971
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Ron Baalke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "Meteorite Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 11:17 AM
> > > Subject: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide
> > > Over Park
> > > Forest
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > http://phobos.astro.uwo.ca/~pbrown/usaf/dod231.txt
> > > >
> > > > Fireball Detection
> > > > Department of Defense Announcement
> > > > (courtesy of Peter Brown)
> > > > July 7, 2003
> > > >
> > > > IR sensors aboard US DOD satellites detected the impact of a
> > > bolide over
> > > > Park Forest, Illinois, on 27 March 2003 at 05:50:26 UTC. The
> > > object
> > > > traveled from the SW to the NE on a heading of 22.3 degrees, with
> > > a
> > > > flight path angle of 62.3 degrees from the local horizontal.
> > > > The straight line intersection of the flight path with the ground
> > > was at
> > > > 41.56 North latitude, 87.67 West longitude.  It was possible to
> > > derive a
> > > > velocity for the object of 20 +/- 1 km/sec.  The impact was
> > > simultaneously
> > > > detected by space based visible wavelength sensors operated by
> > > the US
> > > > Department of Energy.  From these sensors the total radiated
> > > energy was
> > > > estimated at 1.4 X 10^11 joules.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __
> > > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __
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> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> >
> >
> > =
> > Steve Witt
> > IMCA #9020
> >
> > http://www.meteoritecollectors.org
> >
> > __
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> >
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> >
>
>
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

Hello List, an easy explanation, on the ground looking up, it would be SE to
NW, but from a satellite looking down it would be NW to SE.: )
Thanks, Tom
Peregrineflier
The proudest member of the IMCA 6168
- Original Message -
From: Steve Witt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Rob Wesel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: Meteorite-List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over
Park Forest


> Rob,
>
> All of the eyewitnesses I interviewed indicated a SE to NW flight
> path.
>
> Steve
>
>
> --- Rob Wesel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The distribution from Olympia Fields/Park Forest to Steger/Beecher
> > would
> > argue that the flight path was NW to SE or vice versa. The larger
> > masses in
> > the Olympia Fields area would support the former. If they are
> > correct I was
> > searching the wrong side of every building. Please enlighten,
> > --
> > Rob Wesel
> > --
> > We are the music makers...and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
> > Willy Wonka, 1971
> >
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Ron Baalke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Meteorite Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 11:17 AM
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide
> > Over Park
> > Forest
> >
> >
> > >
> > > http://phobos.astro.uwo.ca/~pbrown/usaf/dod231.txt
> > >
> > > Fireball Detection
> > > Department of Defense Announcement
> > > (courtesy of Peter Brown)
> > > July 7, 2003
> > >
> > > IR sensors aboard US DOD satellites detected the impact of a
> > bolide over
> > > Park Forest, Illinois, on 27 March 2003 at 05:50:26 UTC. The
> > object
> > > traveled from the SW to the NE on a heading of 22.3 degrees, with
> > a
> > > flight path angle of 62.3 degrees from the local horizontal.
> > > The straight line intersection of the flight path with the ground
> > was at
> > > 41.56 North latitude, 87.67 West longitude.  It was possible to
> > derive a
> > > velocity for the object of 20 +/- 1 km/sec.  The impact was
> > simultaneously
> > > detected by space based visible wavelength sensors operated by
> > the US
> > > Department of Energy.  From these sensors the total radiated
> > energy was
> > > estimated at 1.4 X 10^11 joules.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > >
> >
> >
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>
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Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

2003-07-08 Thread Steve Witt

Rob,

All of the eyewitnesses I interviewed indicated a SE to NW flight
path.

Steve


--- Rob Wesel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The distribution from Olympia Fields/Park Forest to Steger/Beecher
> would
> argue that the flight path was NW to SE or vice versa. The larger
> masses in
> the Olympia Fields area would support the former. If they are
> correct I was
> searching the wrong side of every building. Please enlighten,
> --
> Rob Wesel
> --
> We are the music makers...and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
> Willy Wonka, 1971
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Ron Baalke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Meteorite Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 11:17 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide
> Over Park
> Forest
> 
> 
> >
> > http://phobos.astro.uwo.ca/~pbrown/usaf/dod231.txt
> >
> > Fireball Detection
> > Department of Defense Announcement
> > (courtesy of Peter Brown)
> > July 7, 2003
> >
> > IR sensors aboard US DOD satellites detected the impact of a
> bolide over
> > Park Forest, Illinois, on 27 March 2003 at 05:50:26 UTC. The
> object
> > traveled from the SW to the NE on a heading of 22.3 degrees, with
> a
> > flight path angle of 62.3 degrees from the local horizontal.
> > The straight line intersection of the flight path with the ground
> was at
> > 41.56 North latitude, 87.67 West longitude.  It was possible to
> derive a
> > velocity for the object of 20 +/- 1 km/sec.  The impact was
> simultaneously
> > detected by space based visible wavelength sensors operated by
> the US
> > Department of Energy.  From these sensors the total radiated
> energy was
> > estimated at 1.4 X 10^11 joules.
> >
> >
> >
> > __
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> 
> 
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=
Steve Witt
IMCA #9020

http://www.meteoritecollectors.org

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Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest




Just try and get into the Olympia Fields Country 
Club. What a hunting ground it would have been.--Rob 
Wesel--We are the music makers...and we are the dreamers 
of the dreams.Willy Wonka, 1971
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Mark 
  Jackson 
  To: Ron Baalke ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 1:35 
PM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD 
  Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest
  
  Did anyone check the Calumet, Ravisloe, Cherry Hills, Flossmoor, Idlewild 
  and Olympia Fields Country Clubs? They look to own most of the real 
  estate in the Park Forest strewn field.
  
  
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  calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).

Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

2003-07-08 Thread Mark Jackson

Did anyone check the Calumet, Ravisloe, Cherry Hills, Flossmoor, Idlewild and Olympia Fields Country Clubs? They look to own most of the real estate in the Park Forest strewn field.
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Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

Olympia Fields to Beecher is 5.5 to 6 miles. If the bigs fall at the end
then the distribution goes SE to NW. I believe Paul Sipiera is working on a
recovery map.
--
Rob Wesel
--
We are the music makers...and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971







- Original Message -
From: "Ron Baalke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Meteorite Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over
Park Forest


> >
> > The distribution from Olympia Fields/Park Forest to Steger/Beecher would
> > argue that the flight path was NW to SE or vice versa. The larger masses
in
> > the Olympia Fields area would support the former. If they are correct I
was
> > searching the wrong side of every building. Please enlighten,
>
> That is interesting because the direction you noted is perpendicular to
what the
> DOD satellite saw.  Your distribution ellipse is based on actual finds, so
> combined with the DOD data, this indicates that the Park Forest
strewnfield is
> actually larger than orginally thought, and many of the meteorite
fragments
> have not been recovered, including some of the larger fragments. It would
be
> interesting to try to figure out how much your strewnfield ellipse
overlaps with
> the DOD ellipse.  The larger pieces would tend to fall downstream on the
far end
> of the ellipse, or some kilometers northeast of the coordinate given in
the DOD
> report (41.56 North latitude, 87.67 West longitude).  Incidently, how far
is
> this position from Park Forest and Beecher?
>
> Ron Baalke
>
>
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

2003-07-08 Thread Mark Jackson

The DOD coordinates define the location of 183rd Street and Park Avenue on the south end of the Ravisloe Country Club in Homewood, Illinois.
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Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

> 
> The distribution from Olympia Fields/Park Forest to Steger/Beecher would
> argue that the flight path was NW to SE or vice versa. The larger masses in
> the Olympia Fields area would support the former. If they are correct I was
> searching the wrong side of every building. Please enlighten,

That is interesting because the direction you noted is perpendicular to what the 
DOD satellite saw.  Your distribution ellipse is based on actual finds, so 
combined with the DOD data, this indicates that the Park Forest strewnfield is
actually larger than orginally thought, and many of the meteorite fragments 
have not been recovered, including some of the larger fragments. It would be 
interesting to try to figure out how much your strewnfield ellipse overlaps with 
the DOD ellipse.  The larger pieces would tend to fall downstream on the far end 
of the ellipse, or some kilometers northeast of the coordinate given in the DOD 
report (41.56 North latitude, 87.67 West longitude).  Incidently, how far is 
this position from Park Forest and Beecher?

Ron Baalke



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Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

Yes, 11:50 PM just like we have all been saying with only a couple
exceptions.
Mike Farmer
- Original Message -
From: "Tom aka James Knudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Ron Baalke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Meteorite Mailing List"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over
Park Forest


> It is written,
> "IR sensors aboard US DOD satellites detected the impact of a bolide over
> Park Forest, Illinois, on 27 March 2003 at 05:50:26 UTC. The object
> traveled from the SW to the NE on a heading of 22.3 degrees, with a
> flight path angle of 62.3 degrees from the local horizontal."
>
> Ok, Now we know the exact time of the PF fall. Can anyone convert this to
> PF's local time?
>
> Thanks, Tom
> Peregrineflier
> The proudest member of the IMCA 6168
> - Original Message -
> From: Ron Baalke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Meteorite Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 11:17 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over
Park
> Forest
>
>
> >
> > http://phobos.astro.uwo.ca/~pbrown/usaf/dod231.txt
> >
> > Fireball Detection
> > Department of Defense Announcement
> > (courtesy of Peter Brown)
> > July 7, 2003
> >
> > IR sensors aboard US DOD satellites detected the impact of a bolide over
> > Park Forest, Illinois, on 27 March 2003 at 05:50:26 UTC. The object
> > traveled from the SW to the NE on a heading of 22.3 degrees, with a
> > flight path angle of 62.3 degrees from the local horizontal.
> > The straight line intersection of the flight path with the ground was at
> > 41.56 North latitude, 87.67 West longitude.  It was possible to derive a
> > velocity for the object of 20 +/- 1 km/sec.  The impact was
simultaneously
> > detected by space based visible wavelength sensors operated by the US
> > Department of Energy.  From these sensors the total radiated energy was
> > estimated at 1.4 X 10^11 joules.
> >
> >
> >
> > __
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
>
>
>
> __
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>



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Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

> 
> 
> That would be 11:50:26 PM on March 26, local time/date.
> 

Note that this is the time when the DOD satellite first detected it, when
it was still airborne and in its fireball phase.  In these DOD reports, when
they say 'impact', they really mean 'impact' with Earth's upper atmosphere, not
the ground.

Ron Baalke

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Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

2003-07-08 Thread Dave Johnson

Chicago is 6 hours behind UTC until Daylight Savings Time
kicks in, then it's 5 hours.  So, that places the time noted
below as 11:50:26 PM on March 26th, which matches my
observation of the bolide.

Dave Johnson

Original Message--
It is written,
"IR sensors aboard US DOD satellites detected the impact of
a bolide over
Park Forest, Illinois, on 27 March 2003 at 05:50:26 UTC. The
object
traveled from the SW to the NE on a heading of 22.3 degrees,
with a
flight path angle of 62.3 degrees from the local
horizontal."

Ok, Now we know the exact time of the PF fall. Can anyone
convert this to
PF's local time?

Thanks, Tom
Peregrineflier
The proudest member of the IMCA 6168


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Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

2003-07-08 Thread Mark Langenfeld


That would be 11:50:26 PM on March 26, local time/date.

Mark

> It is written,
> "IR sensors aboard US DOD satellites detected the impact of a bolide 
over
> Park Forest, Illinois, on 27 March 2003 at 05:50:26 UTC. The object
> traveled from the SW to the NE on a heading of 22.3 degrees, with a
> flight path angle of 62.3 degrees from the local horizontal."
> 
> Ok, Now we know the exact time of the PF fall. Can anyone convert 
this to
> PF's local time?
> 
> Thanks, Tom
> Peregrineflier
> The proudest member of the IMCA 6168
> - Original Message -
> From: Ron Baalke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Meteorite Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 11:17 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide 
Over Park
> Forest
> 
> 
> >
> > http://phobos.astro.uwo.ca/~pbrown/usaf/dod231.txt
> >
> > Fireball Detection
> > Department of Defense Announcement
> > (courtesy of Peter Brown)
> > July 7, 2003
> >
> > IR sensors aboard US DOD satellites detected the impact of a bolide 
over
> > Park Forest, Illinois, on 27 March 2003 at 05:50:26 UTC. The object
> > traveled from the SW to the NE on a heading of 22.3 degrees, with a
> > flight path angle of 62.3 degrees from the local horizontal.
> > The straight line intersection of the flight path with the ground 
was at
> > 41.56 North latitude, 87.67 West longitude.  It was possible to 
derive a
> > velocity for the object of 20 +/- 1 km/sec.  The impact was 
simultaneously
> > detected by space based visible wavelength sensors operated by the 
US
> > Department of Energy.  From these sensors the total radiated energy 
was
> > estimated at 1.4 X 10^11 joules.
> >
> >
> >
> > __
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

The distribution from Olympia Fields/Park Forest to Steger/Beecher would
argue that the flight path was NW to SE or vice versa. The larger masses in
the Olympia Fields area would support the former. If they are correct I was
searching the wrong side of every building. Please enlighten,
--
Rob Wesel
--
We are the music makers...and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971



- Original Message -
From: "Ron Baalke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Meteorite Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 11:17 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park
Forest


>
> http://phobos.astro.uwo.ca/~pbrown/usaf/dod231.txt
>
> Fireball Detection
> Department of Defense Announcement
> (courtesy of Peter Brown)
> July 7, 2003
>
> IR sensors aboard US DOD satellites detected the impact of a bolide over
> Park Forest, Illinois, on 27 March 2003 at 05:50:26 UTC. The object
> traveled from the SW to the NE on a heading of 22.3 degrees, with a
> flight path angle of 62.3 degrees from the local horizontal.
> The straight line intersection of the flight path with the ground was at
> 41.56 North latitude, 87.67 West longitude.  It was possible to derive a
> velocity for the object of 20 +/- 1 km/sec.  The impact was simultaneously
> detected by space based visible wavelength sensors operated by the US
> Department of Energy.  From these sensors the total radiated energy was
> estimated at 1.4 X 10^11 joules.
>
>
>
> __
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


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Re: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest

It is written,
"IR sensors aboard US DOD satellites detected the impact of a bolide over
Park Forest, Illinois, on 27 March 2003 at 05:50:26 UTC. The object
traveled from the SW to the NE on a heading of 22.3 degrees, with a
flight path angle of 62.3 degrees from the local horizontal."

Ok, Now we know the exact time of the PF fall. Can anyone convert this to
PF's local time?

Thanks, Tom
Peregrineflier
The proudest member of the IMCA 6168
- Original Message -
From: Ron Baalke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Meteorite Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 11:17 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park
Forest


>
> http://phobos.astro.uwo.ca/~pbrown/usaf/dod231.txt
>
> Fireball Detection
> Department of Defense Announcement
> (courtesy of Peter Brown)
> July 7, 2003
>
> IR sensors aboard US DOD satellites detected the impact of a bolide over
> Park Forest, Illinois, on 27 March 2003 at 05:50:26 UTC. The object
> traveled from the SW to the NE on a heading of 22.3 degrees, with a
> flight path angle of 62.3 degrees from the local horizontal.
> The straight line intersection of the flight path with the ground was at
> 41.56 North latitude, 87.67 West longitude.  It was possible to derive a
> velocity for the object of 20 +/- 1 km/sec.  The impact was simultaneously
> detected by space based visible wavelength sensors operated by the US
> Department of Energy.  From these sensors the total radiated energy was
> estimated at 1.4 X 10^11 joules.
>
>
>
> __
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



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[meteorite-list] DOD Satellites Detect March 2003 Bolide Over Park Forest