Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison meteorite continues to dazzle scientists
Tough Australian outback-Moms who preserve little aliens in bottling jars. Best - Matthias Am 29.12.2016 um 14:53 schrieb Tommy via Meteorite-list: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-29/murchison-meteorite/8113520 Regards! Tom __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison meteorite continues to dazzle scientists
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-29/murchison-meteorite/8113520 Regards! Tom __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison
Hello John, Obviously, you didn't look on my website. They are 2 of them there: This one is sold: http://www.impactika.com/TSpics/TS216.jpg But this one is available: http://www.impactika.com/TSpics/JC009.jpg Any other questions? ;-) Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: John Lutzon via Meteorite-list To: meteorite-list Sent: Tue, Mar 31, 2015 7:32 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] Murchison Hello All, I've tried but can't find a cross pol image of a Murchison TS--any leads?? Many thanks, John L __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison
Hello All, I've tried but can't find a cross pol image of a Murchison TS--any leads?? Many thanks, John L __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison for SALE
Hi all, Just back from Tucson with some very fresh Murchison for sale. 3.14 grams @ 150 per gram = $499.00 http://s1066.photobucket.com/user/rubengarcia85382/library/Murchison?sort=3&page=1 0.791 gram Murchison = $155 http://s1066.photobucket.com/user/rubengarcia85382/library/190%20gram%20Murchison/791%20gram%20Murchison?sort=3&page=1 0.193 gram Murchison $50 http://s1066.photobucket.com/user/rubengarcia85382/library/193%20gram%20Murchison?sort=3&page=1 0.190 gram Murchison $40 http://s1066.photobucket.com/user/rubengarcia85382/library/190%20gram%20Murchison?sort=3&page=1 Please add $5 Shipping - Rock On! Ruben Garcia http://www.MrMeteorite.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison Meteorite Molecular Space Musik
List, Murchison Meteorite Molecular Space Musik http://latestmeteorart.blogspot.jp/2013/11/murchison-meteorite-molecular-space.html Thank you Dr. Phil Schmitt-Kopplin for your many contributions to meteorite science and art! Anyone else have meteor/meteorite original art that they would like to share with the world? Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison, Zagami, 998 & Seyamchan deals (ad)
Hi all, For those interested I have the following on eBay with Low "Buy it now" prices: Seyamchan Zagami NWA 998 & Murchison They can all be seen at: http://www.ebay.com/sch/candotou/m.html?_ipg=48&_sop=12&_rdc=1 Still have a bed available in non-snoring/non-smoking room on the Ground floor within walking distance of 90% of the meteorite dealers at The Show - $45/night. RSVP off list Thanks, Michael PS: This is the last week to get absentee bids in: http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/AuctionTucson2013.html Also: Not too late to put items in __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison Help
List, So, there is a Sutter's Mill paper being written, lots of them actually. But I and one of my slices are helping out with one in particular and it might actually end up in some fun places other than the abstract as well. Anyway, we need to get a slice of Murchison cut (but not polished) and photographed to go next to the photo of the Sutter's Mill slice the researchers are using. Would anyone have around a 3 gram Murchison that could be cut in half and photographed for the project? I would think the added exposure that specific specimen would get for appearing in the paper would make up for the saw losses, and you could feel good about helping science out! :-) Or does someone have a Murchison about that size, in the US, that I could buy for the project? Please email me off list if you might be able to help. Steve Arnold Host of Meteorite Men Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison Slice Needed
Hey List, Does anyone have a slice of Murchison for loan or for sale? Please contact off list. Thanks, Steve Arnold Host of Meteorite Men Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] MURCHISON, On September 28, 1969 at 10:58 AM, near the town of Murchison, Victoria in Australia, a bright fireball was observed to separate into three fragmentsbeforedisappearing,
Hi list, there will be 3 Murchison specimens (around 60 - 70 grams each) coming on the market in the near future. For more info contact me off list, please. Werner Schroer Australia IMCA #2101 -Original Message- From: Richard Montgomery Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 1:49 PM To: ROCKS FROM SPACE ; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] MURCHISON, On September 28, 1969 at 10:58 AM,near the town of Murchison, Victoria in Australia,a bright fireball was observed to separate into three fragmentsbeforedisappearing, leaving a cloud of smoke. STUNNING to the point of "wait, is this even possible???" WOW - Original Message - From: "ROCKS FROM SPACE" To: Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 11:35 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] MURCHISON, On September 28, 1969 at 10:58 AM,near the town of Murchison, Victoria in Australia,a bright fireball was observed to separate into three fragmentsbefore disappearing, leaving a cloud of smoke. ROCKS FROM SPACE | METEORITES AND METEORITE HUNTERS http://www.rocksfromspace.org/murchison.html __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] MURCHISON, On September 28, 1969 at 10:58 AM, near the town of Murchison, Victoria in Australia, a bright fireball was observed to separate into three fragmentsbefore disappearing
STUNNING to the point of "wait, is this even possible???" WOW - Original Message - From: "ROCKS FROM SPACE" To: Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 11:35 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] MURCHISON, On September 28, 1969 at 10:58 AM,near the town of Murchison, Victoria in Australia,a bright fireball was observed to separate into three fragmentsbefore disappearing, leaving a cloud of smoke. ROCKS FROM SPACE | METEORITES AND METEORITE HUNTERS http://www.rocksfromspace.org/murchison.html __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] MURCHISON, On September 28, 1969 at 10:58 AM, near the town of Murchison, Victoria in Australia, a bright fireball was observed to separate into three fragments before disappearin
Hi, Gorgeous, gorgeous photo!! Bravo, Regine. Completely elegant. On Jan 12, 2012, at 2:35 PM, ROCKS FROM SPACE wrote: > ROCKS FROM SPACE | METEORITES AND METEORITE HUNTERS > > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/murchison.html > > __ > HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] MURCHISON, On September 28, 1969 at 10:58 AM
Indeed, Marvin's Murchison is marvelously magnificent! Sent from Gary's iPhone On Jan 12, 2012, at 10:02 AM, Matthias Bärmann wrote: > > I agree with both of you, Tomasz, Bernd. Bravo, Murch, Brava, Regine. > > Best, > Matthias > > > - Original Message - From: "Bernd V. Pauli" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 8:56 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] MURCHISON, On September 28, 1969 at 10:58 AM > > >> Tomasz wrote: >> >> "Wow! Amazing piece! Thanks Michael for post ... >> >> ... and special thanks to Regine for unveiling the inherent beauty >> of this gorgeous Murchison through her outstanding photographic >> skills! >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Bernd >> >> >> __ >> HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! >> Visit the Archives at >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> __ Hinweis von ESET Smart Security, Signaturdatenbank-Version 6790 >> (20120112) __ >> >> E-Mail wurde geprüft mit ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > > > __ Hinweis von ESET Smart Security, Signaturdatenbank-Version 6790 > (20120112) __ > > E-Mail wurde geprüft mit ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __ > HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] MURCHISON, On September 28, 1969 at 10:58 AM
I agree with both of you, Tomasz, Bernd. Bravo, Murch, Brava, Regine. Best, Matthias - Original Message - From: "Bernd V. Pauli" To: Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 8:56 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] MURCHISON, On September 28, 1969 at 10:58 AM Tomasz wrote: "Wow! Amazing piece! Thanks Michael for post ... ... and special thanks to Regine for unveiling the inherent beauty of this gorgeous Murchison through her outstanding photographic skills! Best wishes, Bernd __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Hinweis von ESET Smart Security, Signaturdatenbank-Version 6790 (20120112) __ E-Mail wurde geprüft mit ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Hinweis von ESET Smart Security, Signaturdatenbank-Version 6790 (20120112) __ E-Mail wurde geprüft mit ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] MURCHISON, On September 28, 1969 at 10:58 AM
Tomasz wrote: "Wow! Amazing piece! Thanks Michael for post ... ... and special thanks to Regine for unveiling the inherent beauty of this gorgeous Murchison through her outstanding photographic skills! Best wishes, Bernd __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] MURCHISON, On September 28, 1969 at 10:58 AM
Wow Amazing piece! Thanks Michael for post ... All the best Tomasz Jakubowski IMCA $2321 Managing Editor http://www.meteorites.pwr.wroc.pl/ Dnia 12-01-2012 o godz. 20:35 ROCKS FROM SPACE napisał(a): > ROCKS FROM SPACE | METEORITES AND METEORITE HUNTERS > > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/murchison.html > > __ > HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] MURCHISON, On September 28, 1969 at 10:58 AM, near the town of Murchison, Victoria in Australia, a bright fireball was observed to separate into three fragments before disappearing, l
ROCKS FROM SPACE | METEORITES AND METEORITE HUNTERS http://www.rocksfromspace.org/murchison.html __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison Keeps on Giving
http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/23097.aspx http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/23097.aspx $1.38 million to pick 'large' pieces of supernova grit out of meteorite Tour de force experiment to reveal how elements that make up our bodies and our planet were forged December 12, 2011 By Diana Lutz Joe Angeles/WUSTL Ernst Zinner, and Ann Nguyen, then a doctoral student in earth and planetary sciences, study a grain of stardust in the NanoSIMS (Secondary Ion Mass Spectrometer) lab at Washington University in St. Louis. Ernst K. Zinner, PhD, research professor of physics and earth and planetary sciences in Arts & Sciences has received a three-year, $1,380,000 grant from the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) to study presolar grains in a sample of the Murchison meteorite, a primitive meteorite that fell to Earth near the town of Murchison, Australia, in 1969. Presolar grains are literally tiny bits of stars — stardust — that were born and died billions of years ago, before the formation of the solar system. >From a generous chunk of the meteorite, Zinner hopes to extract exceptionally >large grains that came from supernovae, giant stars that exploded at the ends >of their lives. The larger grains will allow him to make more comprehensive >measurements and, in turn, achieve a clearer understanding of what happened in >these long-extinct stars -- where most of the elements that make up our bodies >and our Earth were forged. Until the 1960s, most scientists believed that the early solar system got so hot that presolar material could not have survived intact. However, in the mid-1960s, researchers started finding unusual isotopic ratios of the noble gases neon and xenon in certain types of meteorites. The fact that these volatile gases were still there suggested that they were trapped in very refractory (heat-resistant) mineral grains. In 1987, Ed Anders and his co-workers at the University of Chicago and Zinner and his colleagues at WUSTL succeeded in identifying diamond and silicon carbide as the noble gas carriers. This was achieved by dissolving meteorites in acid, a method described by Anders as "burning down the haystack to find the needle.” Wikimedia Commons A piece of the Murchison meteorite on display at the National Museum of Natural History in Washington, D.C. Ernst Zinner will be studying roughly 100 grains of supernova dust he will extract from half a kilogram of the meteorite by dissolving the rest in acids. Presolar grains are very small, typically only a few millionths of a meter across, so sophisticated instruments are needed to study them. Zinner will be using an ion microprobe, a type of Secondary Ion Mass Spectrometer, or SIMS, instrument that achieves high spatial resolution by using a finely focused ion beam. Zinner himself developed many of the techniques that allow the microprobe to perform such precise analytical work. SIMS works by sandblasting a sample and passing the electrically charged debris that comes flying off through electric and magnetic fields that sort it by mass. The masses, in turn, identify individual elements and their isotopes. The isotopic compositions of the grains allow the scientists to understand the evolution of the stars from which the grains originated, especially the nuclear processes that created the elements of which the grains consist. “What I want to do in this project,” Zinner says, “is to locate as many supernova grains as possible that are large enough that we can do measurements of many different elements. “Presolar grains have survived in the Murchison meteorite,” Zinner says, “because it is primitive, or unprocessed. It is a piece of an asteroid that was small enough that the rock never melted or separated according to density. “We’ll extract the silicon carbide grains by using a series of acids to dissolve away the rest of the meteorite. It’s a simple process,” he says, “but it took 20 years to figure out it was possible. “We’ll start with half a kilogram of Murchison, which is a lot,” he says. “Usually people don’t want to give you more than a few grams of a meteorite. But fortunately quite a lot of material fell at Murchison, about 200 kilograms, so we could obtain a large amount of it.” Scott Messenger A silicon carbide grain is only a few microns across, smaller than a yeast cell or red blood cell, but it has traveled across space and time bearing the secrets of its parent star within it. The silicon carbide grains are only a small fraction of the meteorite, and Zinner wants to select only the biggest of them, those that are five microns in diameter or bigger. Once he has his big grains, he’ll separate those originating from supernova from those originating in red giants. This will be done by isotopic analysis, he explains. One of the silicon isotopes is mostly made in supernovae, he says, and by looking at the silicon isotopic composition, the ion prob
[meteorite-list] Murchison 42 ... aiaiai !
Hey Gary , dear list :-) ... thanks for remembering this fantastic birthdays ... Murchison will stay one of the most complex systems analyzed ever ! ... and this combinaison in technology will let us much more discoveries very soon :-) ! here the link again to the original article in PNAS: http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/02/12/0912157107.abstract ... and for the Music lovers ... do not forget to listen to the coresponding spectral data :-) ... get the audio files and listen to the chemical diversity at: http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/02/12/0912157107/suppl/DCSupplemental regards from Perth/Australia right now ... very near Murchison ! Phil. Helmholtz Zentrum München Deutsches Forschungszentrum für Gesundheit und Umwelt (GmbH) Ingolstädter Landstr. 1 85764 Neuherberg www.helmholtz-muenchen.de Aufsichtsratsvorsitzende: MinDir´in Bärbel Brumme-Bothe Geschäftsführer: Prof. Dr. Günther Wess und Dr. Nikolaus Blum Registergericht: Amtsgericht München HRB 6466 USt-IdNr: DE 129521671 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] MURCHISON at Heritage House
49 x 38 x 21 mm (2 x 1.5 x .75 inches) and 30.76 grams. Provenance: Field Museum of Natural History, Chicago; The Macovich Collection of Meteorites. Estimate: $2,500 Reserve Amount: $2,250 w/ Buyer's Premium (BP)$2,688.75 http://fineart.ha.com/common/search_results.php?N=50+793+794+792+2088+4294955864+137&type=amer6059cls-tem030911 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison & Cases sale
Hi All, I have a very nice 3.779g Murchison End Piese with some signs of . Orientation (moderate Roll over lipping, slight regmaglypting). It is $950- but for 24hrs any list member can buy it for $750 + shipping. See at: http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Movie.html Also, 21 small display boxes for $2 + $5 priority mail (US Only) See at: http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Movie.html PS: There is a little left over Halloween movie for those who Have a macabre sense of humor. Best wishes, Michael __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison smells.....
>>>> scientist ... >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Matthias B. >>>> >>>> >>>> - Original Message - From: >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:58 PM >>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Darren, list, >>>> >>>> >>>> The media info Darren is speaking about refers to the >>>> research we (a >>>> group of scientists) are being conducting since several >>>> months on >>>> Murchison, namely a non targeted analysis of its >>>> extraterrestrial >>>> organic contents. >>>> >>>> In a post I sent by end of last September, I had notified >>>> the list of >>>> that work by just mentioning the keywords "Murchison" and >>>> "organic >>>> contant". >>>> >>>> The paper, that was submitted for publication in due time >>>> (right in >>>> time for the 40th anniversary of Murchison fall), was just >>>> anounced >>>> released out of press a couple of hours ago. >>>> >>>> Here is the reference: PNAS, 107 (7), 2763 -2768 (2010). >>>> >>>> Abstract can be read here: >>>> >>>> http://www.pnas.org/content/107/7/2763 >>>> >>>> >>>> More discussions are available through various media press >>>> comments >>>> (easily found by Googling with keys: "Murchison, Phillippe >>>> Schmitt-Kopplin"). >>>> >>>> May I just insist that the incredible number of molecules >>>> we had found >>>> originated from the fact that the screening was not >>>> targeted. >>>> >>>> Also we never claimed that any of the hundreds of thousands >>>> of >>>> molecules we detected had a pre-biotic origin, something >>>> that seems to >>>> provoke debate in the media. >>>> Our work just shows there's no shortage of molecules on >>>> meteorites in >>>> general, and in Murchison, taken as reference in >>>> particular, that >>>> origin-of-life researchers could investigate... >>>> >>>> Those familtar with Ensisheim shows might remember that >>>> Philippe >>>> (Phil) was our new enthroned Ensisheim meteorite guardian >>>> in 2008. >>>> >>>> Phil is the head of the lab in Neuherberg (Munich) where >>>> all the >>>> measurements (combined FTICR-MS,NMR & GC) were run. >>>> We all, co-authors, are deeply indebted to him for his >>>> discern and >>>> faith in initiating that challenging research and for his >>>> expertise >>>> that caused its success beyond any of our initial >>>> expectations. >>>> >>>> So far we have recorded tons of other data on "many more" >>>> other >>>> meteorites. More exciting and weird results are coming >>>> continuously; >>>> thay will be published in the months to come. >>>> >>>> My best wishes, >>>> >>>> Zelimir >>>> >>>> >>>> Shawn Alan >>>> a écrit : >>>> >>>>> Darren and List >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for the read up on Murchison meteorite on >>>> how scientist have identified over 14,000 compounds >>>> and counting. While we are on the topic of Murchison >>>> meteorite, I came across an article on line that >>>> points out these interesting facts and finds on the >>>> Murchison as quoted from the article as follows >>>>> "Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar >>>> system," says Philipp Heck of the University of Chicago. >>>>> "The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are >>>> older than the solar system." >>>>> But just how old? >>>>> Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the >>>> Murchison meteorite, which is well-known for the >>>>> organic ma
[meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuff
http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic Compounds By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia, hasn't quit giving up its secrets. The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied space rocks because many pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as it fell through the atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the carbonaceous chondrite was recovered. Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to scientists as they were formed from material that existed in the solar system's planet-forming disk of gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules holding onto a 4 billion year old record of the birth of our solar system. In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us another clue as to the abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the Earth had formed. In fact, this particular meteorite may have originated from material older than our sun. "We are really excited. When I first studied it and saw the complexity I was so amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the Institute for Ecological Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany. "Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try to understand them you are looking back in time." This new research made use of high resolution spectroscopic tools to identify the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite has provided scientists with vast amounts of information about specific carbon-based organics before, this was the first non-targeted study. In other words, the researchers weren't tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a broad analysis for all the chemicals it might contain. And what they found came as a shock, it appears that the primordial solar system probably had a higher chemical diversity than present-day Earth. In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70 amino acids were identified. But this number appears to be the tip of the iceberg; the meteorite probably contains millions of different organic compounds. More detailed analysis will now be carried out. But why is this important? To understand the diversity of organic chemicals that were floating around a primordial solar system will help us understand how life may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of carbonaceous chondrite drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar system, collecting all the basic organic chemistry from around that time, does that mean diverse organic chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star systems? These organic compounds are known to exist on comets, asteroids and other planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of life when everywhere else seems to be lifeless? If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning to "seed" young star systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea. The conditions for life may not be that rare after all. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison Meteorite Grains Divulge Earth's Cosmic Roots
http://news.uchicago.edu/news.php?asset_id=1633 Meteorite grains divulge Earth's cosmic roots The University of Chicago June 16, 2009 The interstellar stuff that became incorporated into the planets and life on Earth has younger cosmic roots than theories predict, according to the University of Chicago postdoctoral scholar Philipp Heck and his international team of colleagues. Heck and his colleagues examined 22 interstellar grains from the Murchison meteorite for their analysis. Dying sun-like stars flung the Murchison grains into space more than 4.5 billion years ago, before the birth of the solar system. Scientists know the grains formed outside the solar system because of their exotic composition. "The concentration of neon, produced during cosmic-ray irradiation, allows us to determine the time a grain has spent in interstellar space," Heck said. His team determined that 17 of the grains spent somewhere between three million and 200 million years in interstellar space, far less than the theoretical estimates of approximately 500 million years. Only three grains met interstellar duration expectations (two grains yielded no reliable age). "The knowledge of this lifetime is essential for an improved understanding of interstellar processes, and to better constrain the timing of formation processes of the solar system," Heck said. A period of intense star formation that preceded the sun's birth may have produced large quantities of dust, thus accounting for the timing discrepancy, according to the research team. *Citation:* "Interstellar Residence Times of Presolar Dust Grains from the Murchison Carbonaceous Meteorite," /Astrophysical Journal/, June 20, 2009, Vol. 698, Issue 12, pages 1155-1164 *Authors:* Philipp R. Heck, University of Chicago Department of Geophysical Sciences and Chicago Center for Cosmochemistry Frank Gyngard, Laboratory for Space Sciences and Physics Department, Washington University, St. Louis Ulrich Ott, Max Planck Institute for Chemistry, Mainz, Germany Matthias M.M. Meier, Institute of Isotope Geology and Mineral Resources, Zurich, Switzerland Janana N. Ãvila, Research School of Earth Sciences and Planetary Science Institute, Australian National University, Canberra Sachiko Amari, Laboratory for Space Sciences and Physics Department, Washington University, St. Louis Ernest K. Zinner, Laboratory for Space Sciences and Physics Department, Washington University, St. Louis Roy S. Lewis, Enrico Fermi Institute and the Chicago Center for Cosmochemistry, University of Chicago Heinrich Baur, Institute of Isotope Geology and Mineral Resources, Zurich, Switzerland Rainer Wieler, Institute of Isotope Geology and Mineral Resources, Zurich, Switzerland *Funding sources:* National Aeronautics and Space Administration, Swiss National Science Foundation, the Australian National University, and the Brazilian National Council for Scientific __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison TKW (was RFSPD, May 2, 2009)
Hello Graham and List, Graham wondered: "Murchison is listed as having a TKW of over 100 kg and yet there is very little available for collectors...did most of it end up in labs or are collectors and dealers just holding on to this precious material." If the information below (Source: Catalogue of Meteorites) is still valid, there is only about 18 kilograms available for collectors around the globe and that is *not* very much for a carbonaceous chondrite and a witnessed fall. 40.3 kg Field Museum for National History, Chicago, 30.0 kg National Museum, Washington, 05.4 kg Melbourne Museum, Victoria, Australia, 04.6 kg Arizona State University, Tempe, 01.9 kg, Los Angeles, Univ. of California. Hope this helps, Bernd (Happy owner of 6.9 grams from David New + thin section from Bob Haag) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison Needed (still)
Hello Again List, Once again, I am requesting info on any Murchison that might be available out there for sale or for trade. Please respond to me off list directly. Thanks a lot. Steve Arnold **Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown0003) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison meteorite wanted
Hello List, I'm looking for a 10+ gram piece of Murchison e-mail off list if you have a piece forsale Thanks, Tim Heitz __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison vs. other CM's
Hello Jason, Mike, Doug, and List, Some interesting and helpful references from list member and Murchison specialist Greg Shanos: SHANOS G. (1998) Murchison - The Forgotten Meteorite (M!, Aug. 98, Vol. 4, No. 3, pp. 32-33). SHANOS G. (1999) Carbon in the Murchison CM2 Carbon- aceous chondrite (M!, Aug. 99, Vol. 5, No. 3, pp. 38-40). SHANOS G. (2002) Sweet and sour meteorites (Meteorite, Aug. 2002, Vol. 8, No. 3, pp.18-19). and see also: CRONIN J.R. et al. (1971) Amino acid analyses of the Murchison, Murray and Allende carbonaceous chondrites (Science 172, 1327-1329). CRONIN J.R. et al. (1990) Aliphatic hydrocarbons of the Murchison meteorite (GCA 54, 2859-2868). ENGEL M.H. et al. (1982) Distribution and enantiomeric composition of amino acids in the Murchison meteorite (Nature 296, 837-840). LAWLESS J.G. et al. (1979) Quantification of monocarboxylic acids in the Murchison meteorite (Nature 282, 396-398). PERING K.L. et al. Aromatic hydrocarbons in the Murchison meteorite (Science 173, 237-239). __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison vs. other CM's
Hi Jason and Mike and CM2 fans, ...and a good example is the Murray CM2 (Kentucky, USA, fall, 1950) meteorite which has many non-canonical amino acids similar to the composition of Murchison. The amino acids occur in the parts per million concentration ranges, and destructive analysis for small samples where volatiles are still retained severely restricts analytical research due to availability. Murchison, thankfully provided a windfall of material and is the most accessible to be studied. Undoubtable other examples in the scientific community from the cold Antarctic are preserved reasonably and could be analyzed as well. Only 14 fresh falls of CM2's have occurred in the last couple of centuries, not giving too much material to go around. Though in the past 50 years analytical techniques have become more sensitive, looking for larger molecules in those concentrations in what is left from their virgin cores is probably still very tricky. Using the magic USGS/MetSoc database as a reference, here they all are with the TKW's and the percent each fall represents of the total TKW's of CM2 falls. Murchison 100.0075.1% Murray 12.609.5% Mighei 8.00 6.0% Cold Bokkeveld 5.20 3.9% Nogoya 4.00 3.0% Boriskino1.34 1.0% Banten 0.63 0.5% Sayama 0.43 0.3% Haripura 0.32 0.2% Pollen 0.25 0.2% Erakot 0.11 0.1% Nawapali 0.11 0.1% Crescent 0.08 0.1% Santa Cruz 0.06 0.0% No wonder we have info on Murchison and Murray ... Best wishes, Doug -Original Message- From: Mike Bandli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 'JASON PHILLIPS' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 'Meteorite Mailing List' Sent: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:19 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison vs. other CM's Most of the CM falls have been shown to contain extraterrestrial amino acids. Orgueil and Ivuna also contain extraterrestrial amino acids, but the CM's contain the widest variety and most complex forms. Cheers, Mike Bandli www.Astro-Artifacts.com IMCA #5765 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JASON PHILLIPS Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:10 PM To: 'Meteorite Mailing List' Subject: [meteorite-list] Murchison vs. other CM's Hello List, Is Murchison the only CM to contain amino acids that are not found on earth? Take Care, Jason Rocks from Heaven www.rocksfromheaven.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison vs. other CM's (2)
I just realized that my original answer does not answer your question and does not distinguish between 'extraterrestrial' and 'not-found on earth.' For example: despite being chemically synthesized in space, 17 of the AA's found in Murchison, DO exist on earth. The remainder does not. I cannot find any recent numbers for other CM's like Murray. I'm sure someone else can post that data? Kind regards, Mike Bandli www.Astro-Artifacts.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Bandli Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 10:20 PM To: 'JASON PHILLIPS'; 'Meteorite Mailing List' Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison vs. other CM's Most of the CM falls have been shown to contain extraterrestrial amino acids. Orgueil and Ivuna also contain extraterrestrial amino acids, but the CM's contain the widest variety and most complex forms. Cheers, Mike Bandli www.Astro-Artifacts.com IMCA #5765 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JASON PHILLIPS Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:10 PM To: 'Meteorite Mailing List' Subject: [meteorite-list] Murchison vs. other CM's Hello List, Is Murchison the only CM to contain amino acids that are not found on earth? Take Care, Jason Rocks from Heaven www.rocksfromheaven.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison vs. other CM's
Most of the CM falls have been shown to contain extraterrestrial amino acids. Orgueil and Ivuna also contain extraterrestrial amino acids, but the CM's contain the widest variety and most complex forms. Cheers, Mike Bandli www.Astro-Artifacts.com IMCA #5765 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JASON PHILLIPS Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:10 PM To: 'Meteorite Mailing List' Subject: [meteorite-list] Murchison vs. other CM's Hello List, Is Murchison the only CM to contain amino acids that are not found on earth? Take Care, Jason Rocks from Heaven www.rocksfromheaven.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison vs. other CM's
Hello List, Is Murchison the only CM to contain amino acids that are not found on earth? Take Care, Jason Rocks from Heaven www.rocksfromheaven.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison - A smelly Rock
No worries Bernd! ;-) The pic is available here: http://www.meteorites.com.au/images/Murchison.jpg I met Betty a couple of years ago and she's a very nice and interesting character. She was more than happy to tell me about that fateful day in September, 1969. It's fascinating to hear about falls from first-hand witnesses. Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:17 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Murchison - A smelly Rock HAAG ROBERT (1997) Field Guide of Meteorites (10th + 12th Anniversary Editions, 1991 + 1997, p. 36): Betty Maslin, a Murchison, Australia resident, displays the smelly rocks that landed on the outskirts of town one Sunday morning in September, 1969. Detonations and "hissing" noises were heard when the fireball exploded and smoke rings were seen hanging in the air. Some 700 kilos of stones rained out of the sky, covering 33 square kilometers, and stinking up the town with the smell of methylated spirits. (Betty and her father found the two largest pieces by the road.) The jar Mrs. Maslin is holding had been sealed for ten years, and when I opened it, the smell of alcohol and ether was still strong enough to nearly put me under. Hello List, For those list members who don't have these field guides, I'm going to send the picture from Bob's Field Guide to Jeff Kuyken who can then upload it for everyone to have a look. Thanks in advance, Jeff! Cheers, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison - A smelly Rock
All, Being the proud owner of an incredible fusion crusted 80g oriented Murchison from Jim Strope, I can attest to the "smell" described. I keep this specimen, along with a 1.5g specimen, under a clean glass bell jar. When I clean the jar I "smell" its' interior and there is a wonderful aroma that is almost bourbon-like in nature. The jar did not have this aroma when I bought it and it sits on a glass shelf. My guess is that the 92+ amino acids with the 13% water by content make for a meteoritic mixer. All the best and Happy Holidays to everyone. Greg Redfern NASA JPL Solar System Ambassador http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/ambassador/index.ht ml WHAT'S UP?: THE SPACE PLACE http://www.wtopnews.com/?sid=600113&nid=421 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 7:18 AM To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Murchison - A smelly Rock HAAG ROBERT (1997) Field Guide of Meteorites (10th + 12th Anniversary Editions, 1991 + 1997, p. 36): Betty Maslin, a Murchison, Australia resident, displays the smelly rocks that landed on the outskirts of town one Sunday morning in September, 1969. Detonations and "hissing" noises were heard when the fireball exploded and smoke rings were seen hanging in the air. Some 700 kilos of stones rained out of the sky, covering 33 square kilometers, and stinking up the town with the smell of methylated spirits. (Betty and her father found the two largest pieces by the road.) The jar Mrs. Maslin is holding had been sealed for ten years, and when I opened it, the smell of alcohol and ether was still strong enough to nearly put me under. Hello List, For those list members who don't have these field guides, I'm going to send the picture from Bob's Field Guide to Jeff Kuyken who can then upload it for everyone to have a look. Thanks in advance, Jeff! Cheers, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison - A smelly Rock
HAAG ROBERT (1997) Field Guide of Meteorites (10th + 12th Anniversary Editions, 1991 + 1997, p. 36): Betty Maslin, a Murchison, Australia resident, displays the smelly rocks that landed on the outskirts of town one Sunday morning in September, 1969. Detonations and "hissing" noises were heard when the fireball exploded and smoke rings were seen hanging in the air. Some 700 kilos of stones rained out of the sky, covering 33 square kilometers, and stinking up the town with the smell of methylated spirits. (Betty and her father found the two largest pieces by the road.) The jar Mrs. Maslin is holding had been sealed for ten years, and when I opened it, the smell of alcohol and ether was still strong enough to nearly put me under. Hello List, For those list members who don't have these field guides, I'm going to send the picture from Bob's Field Guide to Jeff Kuyken who can then upload it for everyone to have a look. Thanks in advance, Jeff! Cheers, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
mah...for me depend on rarityI have just sold some pieces of italian historical falls impossible to find from Euro 200 to 400 for gram and all its go sold immediatly, and I have other 2 slices of Siena under the eyes of some collectorsto the face of who say the historical falls its the same ordinary material type the NWAbut I never have seen a slice of Ensisheim sold for $10/gr. ... Matteo --- MexicoDoug <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ha scritto: > Hi Martin, nice positive outlook! > > But, let's test these assumptions, just to temper it > a little with an > alternate economic scenario (Hi Doug of 2026, > pleased to meet you and 2006 > sends you a warm greeting not to forget! Can you > believe that Art's > archive's are still available on the Meteorites Disk > #23 for $250 each on > neXtBay on the exoNet?) > > There are market swings. > > The USA enthusiasts are buoying the price of a > deluge of meteorites to nice > levels today given the flooded market. Just ask the > German collectors. > > The USA suffers booms and busts throughout its > economic history. A vote on > perpetually increasing meteorite pricing is a vote > of confidence in the US > economy being the driver of the world, without any > dips in the road to > eternity. That's a nice thought. Forever consuming > 35% of the world's > electricity, drowning in petroleum etc. > > At some point there will be a bust. Maybe when the > US Congress realizes > that it's debt to equity ratio is worse than a third > world country, or maybe > when an entire burgeoning generation of aging > Americans asks, where is my > medical care? Where is my Social Security, and then > some responsible fiscal > planning starts. > > Then, Americans will discover German eBay and dump > their meteorites there to > buy their medications in legions of "can you help a > brother" sales. > > And suddenly charitable Germans will come to the > rescue. Hmmm. 1000 > collectors who would rather have an old piece of > space rubble than a shining > ingot of gold. That fall, ... hmmm ... two tons? > Let's see. Each > collector can have a couple of kilos. How much is a > gram worth? Let German > eBay figure it out. Unsatisfied, they will try to > negotiate with the > nouveau rich of a unified China. have you ever > negotiated with them? > They're a lot tougher than Germans... > > Oh yes, the "locked up in museums" defense. Maybe > the Ensisheim Stone won't > crack its shackles. Which other ones are so locked > up...there must be a few > less speculative investments no doubt, like that. > But no > guarantees...that's why its called business... > > Right now you can buy a gram of Eucrite for the > price of a Big Mac > hamburger. We can revisit that ratio when the US > starts paying back $400 > billion for Iraq and faces high oil prices despite > best intentions. Then we > can see is a gram of Lunar meteorites can fill my > gas tank. (or maybe 10 > grams a Russian's tank). Maybe Martians will be > $10,000 per gram:) As long > as gas isn't $200 per liter > > Then I'll send you some Dutch tulip bulbs to start a > garden. Have a cup of > Earl Grey and reminisce about when a good marketer > could painfully break > even buying and selling meteorites. > > Meteorites are not rarer than antiques. They are not > rarer than anything > that can be described as unique. There are a lot of > unique things out > there. > > They are rocks with a great story. And we do just > love them. Money and > love don't always mix well, though. Sometimes when > it rains it pours and > when it is dry, it's parched as a bone. Speculating > about speculating is > quite a spectacle, economists are never wrong! The > problem is when they > really start believing what they say...and convince > everyone else that > forward looking statements in 10-K's are sure things > ... and that 8-K's > don't happen... > Best wishes, > Doug > Above is fictitious scenario. No claims are made > nor is it the intention to > create expectations of "truth". The future is > unpredictable. Scenario > planning is simply a useful tool to understand and > manage risks. > > > - Original Message - > From: "Martin Altmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'David Weir'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 6:44 AM > Subject: AW: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price > Difference > > > Each meteorite has its time. > > Nowadays the usual
Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
Twinstarwell know why he ask the % on paypal payments for ebayMurchins have prices go from $50 to 100-150/gr. depend on size, type of piece etc... Matteo --- Don Merchant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ha scritto: > Hi List. If I am out of line here I sincerely > apologize to any and all I > may offend. Can some one explain why such a HUGE > difference in auction > price! I'm confused here. Check out both auctions > and compare. Maybe there > is something I'm missing here except my wallet! > Sincerely > Don Merchant > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&item=320021921340&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&item=320032119384&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 > > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30173 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Poco spazio e tanto spam? Yahoo! Mail ti protegge dallo spam e ti da tanto spazio gratuito per i tuoi file e i messaggi http://mail.yahoo.it __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
Hi Matthias!
Yes to all you say, I can see you're not a big fan of mitosis and meiowsis,
including cut loss and rusting, I'll only whisper {Bessey specks}...
Oh, here'd be my exception:
Please don't forget that every decade a few good witnessed falls in fact are
responsible for the birth of the finest collectable meteorites! As a matter
of fact they are getting (recovered) more common every year as people put up
parking lots, streets and industrial complexes everywhere!
Now on to see Rob's Comet tonight (to use my finder chart posted just turn
it upside down for the evening vs. morning), though there will be a bright
Moon adding to the difficulties tonight, hopefully now is the time!
And finally, A wonderful Happy Birthday to Monze! That great fall of 1950
born on this special day in history!
Mitotically yours,
Doug
- Original Message -
From: "Matthias Bärmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "MexicoDoug" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
> Hello Doug , -
>
>
> You wrote: "Meteorites are a recyclable resource ... you can cultivate and
> prune and they do multiply..."
>
> That's a nice concept indeed. With my inner eyes I can see a pretty garden
> with meteorite-beds. In springtime you only have to put the little
> micromounts in the earth, give them a few dips for developing regmaglypts,
> yes, do some pruning work (for orientation) and, not to forget: they need
a
> good amount of water each day, early in the morning and in the late
> afternoon. Especially the irons. The result?
>
>
> You also wrote: "Meteorites don't die"
>
> I'm sure: they will be as dead as mutton in a few weeks, at least months.
>
> With other words: it may not be a main aspect, but we must not neglect the
> loss of meteoritical material through rust (not only the irons), erosion,
> wrong treatment etc. Each slice one cuts, each process of abrading,
> (re-)polishing,(re-)etching etc. means to loose material. Not so much in
> the single case. But in addition? Anyway, we have to book it under
"debit".
>
> By the way: "Cultivating the meteorite-garden" would be a perfect subject
> for comic-artist Mark Bostick (I remember with pleasure his "Hunting
> Meteorites in a Perfect World" :-) ...
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Matthias
>
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "MexicoDoug" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Martin Altmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
>
> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 7:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
>
>
> Martin wrote:
> "...Doug, tulips you can grow and multiply.(snip)...Meteorites you can't
> cultivate - and where in future shall such amounts of meteorites grow
again,
> when Sahara and Oman will be over?"
>
> Hello again, Martin (and also Matthias:)),
>
> Well, maybe under the sea? There's still an untapped 70-75% of the world.
> Then there is strewn field some collectors have between their meteorite
> showcases and their mailboxes. Not to mention that storehouse of all my
> unmatched socks and the meteorites lost by postal services worldwide.
Maybe
> we won't be so lucky there., but:
>
> Meteorites are a recyclable resource ... you can cultivate and prune and
> they do multiply... Meteorites don't die, at worst they just whittle
away...
>
> Collectors, they do die, and their meteorites are the seed and bulbs of
new
> generations...They are the new strewn fields of the future...along with
tons
> of meteorites hoarded in garbage cans in the garages of speculative
hunters
> ...
>
> Today meteorites are a link to Solar system. Tomorrow Richard Branson
will
> have expeditions to see the orchestrated performances of meteoroid
streams,
> where you can dip a special ladle into the flow and catch a flying star
and
> put it in your pocket and save it for a stormy day. In 20 years a Moon
> Colony will be established...The Japanese will jump start Asteroid mining
> activities...Asteroid Slag will become a collectable, and the miners on
the
> asteroids will give you a ton of material for an attempted sniff or gaze
> upon a tulip.
>
> There is no choice. All resources are limited on earth. The only outlet
is
> out there. Over the long haul all of us are only renting meteorites
anyway
> We will run out of land to buy before we run out of meteorites to
> exchange. And then you will want a plot of land for your family, not a
> pound of space rubble.
>
> Just a few thoughts on the future from our snapshot in time.
> And before ideologies change and we catch up to it...
>
> Best wishes, Doug
>
>
>
>
>
>
__
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Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
Hello Doug , - You wrote: "Meteorites are a recyclable resource ... you can cultivate and prune and they do multiply..." That's a nice concept indeed. With my inner eyes I can see a pretty garden with meteorite-beds. In springtime you only have to put the little micromounts in the earth, give them a few dips for developing regmaglypts, yes, do some pruning work (for orientation) and, not to forget: they need a good amount of water each day, early in the morning and in the late afternoon. Especially the irons. The result? You also wrote: "Meteorites don't die" I'm sure: they will be as dead as mutton in a few weeks, at least months. With other words: it may not be a main aspect, but we must not neglect the loss of meteoritical material through rust (not only the irons), erosion, wrong treatment etc. Each slice one cuts, each process of abrading, (re-)polishing,(re-)etching etc. means to loose material. Not so much in the single case. But in addition? Anyway, we have to book it under "debit". By the way: "Cultivating the meteorite-garden" would be a perfect subject for comic-artist Mark Bostick (I remember with pleasure his "Hunting Meteorites in a Perfect World" :-) ... Kind regards, Matthias - Original Message - From: "MexicoDoug" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Martin Altmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 7:19 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference Martin wrote: "...Doug, tulips you can grow and multiply.(snip)...Meteorites you can't cultivate - and where in future shall such amounts of meteorites grow again, when Sahara and Oman will be over?" Hello again, Martin (and also Matthias:)), Well, maybe under the sea? There's still an untapped 70-75% of the world. Then there is strewn field some collectors have between their meteorite showcases and their mailboxes. Not to mention that storehouse of all my unmatched socks and the meteorites lost by postal services worldwide. Maybe we won't be so lucky there., but: Meteorites are a recyclable resource ... you can cultivate and prune and they do multiply... Meteorites don't die, at worst they just whittle away... Collectors, they do die, and their meteorites are the seed and bulbs of new generations...They are the new strewn fields of the future...along with tons of meteorites hoarded in garbage cans in the garages of speculative hunters ... Today meteorites are a link to Solar system. Tomorrow Richard Branson will have expeditions to see the orchestrated performances of meteoroid streams, where you can dip a special ladle into the flow and catch a flying star and put it in your pocket and save it for a stormy day. In 20 years a Moon Colony will be established...The Japanese will jump start Asteroid mining activities...Asteroid Slag will become a collectable, and the miners on the asteroids will give you a ton of material for an attempted sniff or gaze upon a tulip. There is no choice. All resources are limited on earth. The only outlet is out there. Over the long haul all of us are only renting meteorites anyway We will run out of land to buy before we run out of meteorites to exchange. And then you will want a plot of land for your family, not a pound of space rubble. Just a few thoughts on the future from our snapshot in time. And before ideologies change and we catch up to it... Best wishes, Doug __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
"but just imagine that the number of collectors might double in a few years, and then again double in a few years more, etc., and all those tiny "stocks" we have now will be a drop lost in an ocean." Hi Norbert, Martin oweh and friends, The only objection to that scenario is that meteorites have extremely elastic demand. I really believe that some combination of all of our scenarios and much more will shake out during the evolution we are all shaping. Not trying to be negative - and not rejecting Martin's scenarios, just rounding them out from the typical hype we love to share with each other. I just try to look at the "big picture", even though I don't have a Harvard degree. To keep in mind that as meteorites get more expensive, they plummet after smashing against a demand wall. Collecting just isn't as widespread when new collectors need microscopes to see many of their pieces and can't put them in big cabinets and displays. So, rather than pick up those collectors on the margin, you just as well can lose them. There is a finite amount of material available - it works both ways. People loose interest as well ... as the economies that go bust. I don't think any number of German Buyers on eBay will remedy their perceptions which just seem to breed familiarity with the drill ... As for behavior and thought that a Moonbase is just a pipe dream far off...you did mention the ISS. Human psyche is so adaptable...sometimes sadly. The ISS is an incredible project, but has a fallen image, victimized by politicians, war, and beaurocracy. If only the world could take a moment out of its busy rotating schedule and revel a bit on the magnitude of this accomplishment, misguided as it may seem to some. The ISS is truly our first Castle in the Sky. That's not in the writing, though. But do look at the situation. Familiarity - taking the technology for granted - and it is on the back burner. That is a stark parallel to people's behavior toward meteorites as the "h-AAAhhh" effect cools off. Then functionally is sought. The ISS really is more than the half way point of difficulty and is what 10 years in the making? How easy this will be from the ISS to the Moon... Japan's Hayabusa mission was no random event for an island strapped for resources and hungry for advancement. Now behemoth Orion rocket contracts are awarded and private industry doesn't joke when it designs the Spaceport in New Mexico. Here is where we are in different thoughts. I have every intention of seeing you at the Luna Hilton, within 25 years, or in my case at the Luna Youth Hostel, on the lunar floor in my high tech sleeping bag. I'll be willing to give up meteorite collecting and all of my investment into it in a heartbeat, for that opportunity. If I have a weight limit, I'll just not eat while I am there, and on the way back, I'll leave my 2kg of disposable clothing there and come back in a Speedo or diapers packed with Moondust if I can. All of such samples thus returned will be essentially free - fronted-err... piggybacked, and returned after journeys serving a higher purpose. Plenty of this material will eventually make it to eBay, fakes, reals and all. The technology wasn't here when Kennedy set priorities and twelve years later enough round trips were made to have built a Moonbase by 1972. China is here to stay and hungry for her strategic place on the Moon. That will remind Europe and the USA, not to mention India and Russia, that they USA's Apollo program is yesterday's news and yesterday's crowning dominance. The secrets to defense and resources are their future. It is no longer a science fiction scenario alone ... it is an issue of strategic initiative by the "have nots" and desire to have the glory we've seen squandered by able nations. Just wait until China demonstrates she has the technology to put her first man on the Moon. I assure you the Orion rockets and ISS will have their work cut out for them within 20 years, if private industry don't surpass them in the meantime - which it increasingly positioning itself to do... Hasta la Luna, Doug ----- Original Message - From: "Norbert Classen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 3:40 PM Subject: AW: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference > Doug wrote: > > > In 20 years a Moon Colony will be established... > > Hi Doug, and All, > > 20 years ago a lot of people believed: "In 20 years a Mars Colony will be > established..." In Kubrick's 2001 we even made it to Jupiter, and its moon > Europa in a shorter period of time. And look at where we are now - they > (ESA, NASA, etc.) are even having big troubles in getting the ISS ready > until 2010, not to speak about returning to the Moon :-( > > Don't get me wrong,
AW: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
Doug wrote: > In 20 years a Moon Colony will be established... Hi Doug, and All, 20 years ago a lot of people believed: "In 20 years a Mars Colony will be established..." In Kubrick's 2001 we even made it to Jupiter, and its moon Europa in a shorter period of time. And look at where we are now - they (ESA, NASA, etc.) are even having big troubles in getting the ISS ready until 2010, not to speak about returning to the Moon :-( Don't get me wrong, I'd be the first to book a room in the Luna Hilton, and I perfectly agree that our future is out there... I'm just trying to be a bit more realistic ,-) > Just a few thoughts on the future from our snapshot in time. > And before ideologies change and we catch up to it... Yeap, ideologies and paradigms change pretty fast, these days... But, to come back to meteorites, I believe Martin is right - meteorites are a non-renewable resource. Maybe they might be recycleable up to some point, as you say, but just imagine that the number of collectors might double in a few years, and then again double in a few years more, etc., and all those tiny "stocks" we have now will be a drop lost in an ocean. Exponentially yours, Norbert __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
Martin wrote: "...Doug, tulips you can grow and multiply.(snip)...Meteorites you can't cultivate - and where in future shall such amounts of meteorites grow again, when Sahara and Oman will be over?" Hello again, Martin (and also Matthias:)), Well, maybe under the sea? There's still an untapped 70-75% of the world. Then there is strewn field some collectors have between their meteorite showcases and their mailboxes. Not to mention that storehouse of all my unmatched socks and the meteorites lost by postal services worldwide. Maybe we won't be so lucky there., but: Meteorites are a recyclable resource ... you can cultivate and prune and they do multiply... Meteorites don't die, at worst they just whittle away... Collectors, they do die, and their meteorites are the seed and bulbs of new generations...They are the new strewn fields of the future...along with tons of meteorites hoarded in garbage cans in the garages of speculative hunters ... Today meteorites are a link to Solar system. Tomorrow Richard Branson will have expeditions to see the orchestrated performances of meteoroid streams, where you can dip a special ladle into the flow and catch a flying star and put it in your pocket and save it for a stormy day. In 20 years a Moon Colony will be established...The Japanese will jump start Asteroid mining activities...Asteroid Slag will become a collectable, and the miners on the asteroids will give you a ton of material for an attempted sniff or gaze upon a tulip. There is no choice. All resources are limited on earth. The only outlet is out there. Over the long haul all of us are only renting meteorites anyway We will run out of land to buy before we run out of meteorites to exchange. And then you will want a plot of land for your family, not a pound of space rubble. Just a few thoughts on the future from our snapshot in time. And before ideologies change and we catch up to it... Best wishes, Doug - Original Message - From: "Martin Altmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'MexicoDoug'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 8:55 AM Subject: AW: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference Hi Doug, "Then, Americans will discover German eBay and dump their meteorites" Not a good perspective, Germans tend to be notoriously pessimistic, when the famous German "angst" seizes them, they will store each penny under the mattress. I guess they should rather list the stuff then in Chinese ebay. (also as a revenge for the endless Nantan fakes today). Nice that you will send me tulip bulbs, will give me the opportunity to explain the difference between tulips and meteorites. The tulipomania in 17th century was quite the most exalted episode in the history of collecting. Tulip bulbs were paid with the same weight in gold and were objects of speculation; options for tulips were dealt. The summit of this race was in 1637, when for 3 bulbs of a rare kind of tulips the price of 3 houses in Amsterdam was paid. The Dutch government finally fixed the tulip prices by a law, subsequently the prices collapsed and this event is known as the first stock exchange crash in history. So far the analogy with meteorites. The crash in meteorite market we all observed, but, Doug, tulips you can grow and multiply. Meteorites you can't cultivate - and where in future shall such amounts of meteorites grow again, when Sahara and Oman will be over? Franconia? Gobi? Atacama? Can't you see, that within the only last 5 years the number of meteorites quite sudden exploded to a 50times larger quantity as the 200 years before? Take a look in the previous Blue Book of 1986. There we have aside the Antarctics only 3000 meteorites at all! Where are we currently in numbering the NWAs from 2001 - I guess we are scratching on the NWA 5000 figure, with the Dhofars, help me, 1500-2000 ?? SaU, SAH, DaG, and so on. And I guess quite a pile waits to be classified. Man Doug! That is an unique meteoritical peak in history. The number of collectors perhaps tripled, the number of meteorites available increased 50fold. The prices went u n d e r g r o u n d !!! The desert rush had ist culmination 2-3 years ago, since then the supply drastically shortened - if you don't believe the sound of the prayer wheels of the dealers and Morocco pilgrims, listen at least to the reports from the big mineral shows, told by collectors. On the other hands, itineri-itinera check the overall quantities of meteorites in the Bulletin database, there simply never were, are, will be ominous hundreds of tons of meteorites from Sahara, because they simply never existed! If the supply runs out, the collectors will have gnawed off the largest part of the backlock, and there you can have as much as economical recessions in US as you want, with this price level today, there is no other way, that the prices will raise, if not an ast
Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
Hello list, Martin Altmann wrote: "Then, Americans will discover German eBay and dump their meteorites" (quoting Doug) Not a good perspective, Germans tend to be notoriously pessimistic, when the famous German "angst" seizes them, they will store each penny under the mattress. Well, I would be able to help out with at least 3 or 4 fearless and notoriously optimistic addresses even here, if wanted. Martin Altmann also wrote: If the supply runs out, the collectors will have gnawed off the largest part of the backlock, and there you can have as much as economical recessions in US as you want, with this price level today, there is no other way, that the prices will raise, if not an asteroid collision [will wipe out all mammals from our planet] will provide us with thousands of tons of breathtakingly (!) fresh, beautiful and probably totally unknown material. Look: if that's not optimistic and fearless, I don't know ... Greets, Matthias __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
AW: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
Hi Doug, "Then, Americans will discover German eBay and dump their meteorites" Not a good perspective, Germans tend to be notoriously pessimistic, when the famous German "angst" seizes them, they will store each penny under the mattress. I guess they should rather list the stuff then in Chinese ebay. (also as a revenge for the endless Nantan fakes today). Nice that you will send me tulip bulbs, will give me the opportunity to explain the difference between tulips and meteorites. The tulipomania in 17th century was quite the most exalted episode in the history of collecting. Tulip bulbs were paid with the same weight in gold and were objects of speculation; options for tulips were dealt. The summit of this race was in 1637, when for 3 bulbs of a rare kind of tulips the price of 3 houses in Amsterdam was paid. The Dutch government finally fixed the tulip prices by a law, subsequently the prices collapsed and this event is known as the first stock exchange crash in history. So far the analogy with meteorites. The crash in meteorite market we all observed, but, Doug, tulips you can grow and multiply. Meteorites you can't cultivate - and where in future shall such amounts of meteorites grow again, when Sahara and Oman will be over? Franconia? Gobi? Atacama? Can't you see, that within the only last 5 years the number of meteorites quite sudden exploded to a 50times larger quantity as the 200 years before? Take a look in the previous Blue Book of 1986. There we have aside the Antarctics only 3000 meteorites at all! Where are we currently in numbering the NWAs from 2001 - I guess we are scratching on the NWA 5000 figure, with the Dhofars, help me, 1500-2000 ?? SaU, SAH, DaG, and so on. And I guess quite a pile waits to be classified. Man Doug! That is an unique meteoritical peak in history. The number of collectors perhaps tripled, the number of meteorites available increased 50fold. The prices went u n d e r g r o u n d !!! The desert rush had ist culmination 2-3 years ago, since then the supply drastically shortened - if you don't believe the sound of the prayer wheels of the dealers and Morocco pilgrims, listen at least to the reports from the big mineral shows, told by collectors. On the other hands, itineri-itinera check the overall quantities of meteorites in the Bulletin database, there simply never were, are, will be ominous hundreds of tons of meteorites from Sahara, because they simply never existed! If the supply runs out, the collectors will have gnawed off the largest part of the backlock, and there you can have as much as economical recessions in US as you want, with this price level today, there is no other way, that the prices will raise, if not an asteroid collision will wipe out all mammals from our planet. Hstory, can please someone write an article about meteorite collecting from the 20ies to the 60ies, after the big national races in 19th century and a little bit later too, the establishing of the large collections of the worlds, I feel always such a large gap in the history of meteorite collecting until in the 60ies, 70ies one can read again more about meteorites. >From the time inbetween I have no ideas. Only sporadical episodes, that poor Nininger was forced to tinker funny stars from Canyon spherules in his museum for not having to starve. Thanks Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: MexicoDoug [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. Oktober 2006 14:53 An: Martin Altmann; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference Hi Martin, nice positive outlook! But, let's test these assumptions, just to temper it a little with an alternate economic scenario (Hi Doug of 2026, pleased to meet you and 2006 sends you a warm greeting not to forget! Can you believe that Art's archive's are still available on the Meteorites Disk #23 for $250 each on neXtBay on the exoNet?) There are market swings. The USA enthusiasts are buoying the price of a deluge of meteorites to nice levels today given the flooded market. Just ask the German collectors. The USA suffers booms and busts throughout its economic history. A vote on perpetually increasing meteorite pricing is a vote of confidence in the US economy being the driver of the world, without any dips in the road to eternity. That's a nice thought. Forever consuming 35% of the world's electricity, drowning in petroleum etc. At some point there will be a bust. Maybe when the US Congress realizes that it's debt to equity ratio is worse than a third world country, or maybe when an entire burgeoning generation of aging Americans asks, where is my medical care? Where is my Social Security, and then some responsible fiscal planning starts. Then, Americans will discover German eBay and dump their meteorites there to buy their medications in legions of "can you help a brother" sales. And suddenl
AW: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
Little addendum: in remembering the prices from past days, we always forget about the inflation. I just found that nice tool: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/ According this calculator, USA had an inflation of roughly 50% from 1990 to 2005. And 150% from 1980 to 2005. Sniff, I paid 2$/g 1986 for Chinga at Carion. Would be 3.50$/g today... Uuuh, Buehler asked 8 years ago 7.43$/g for the first Udei Stations! Would be now: 8.7$/g. Hey, we have a slice left: 5.5$/g + 3$ ship. Buckleboo! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von David Weir Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. Oktober 2006 11:52 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference Don, Perhaps some people remember that Murchison typically sold for $30-40/g a dozen years ago and refuse to see the justification for such high pricing today, while others newer to the scene are content to buy high. David __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
Hi Martin, nice positive outlook! But, let's test these assumptions, just to temper it a little with an alternate economic scenario (Hi Doug of 2026, pleased to meet you and 2006 sends you a warm greeting not to forget! Can you believe that Art's archive's are still available on the Meteorites Disk #23 for $250 each on neXtBay on the exoNet?) There are market swings. The USA enthusiasts are buoying the price of a deluge of meteorites to nice levels today given the flooded market. Just ask the German collectors. The USA suffers booms and busts throughout its economic history. A vote on perpetually increasing meteorite pricing is a vote of confidence in the US economy being the driver of the world, without any dips in the road to eternity. That's a nice thought. Forever consuming 35% of the world's electricity, drowning in petroleum etc. At some point there will be a bust. Maybe when the US Congress realizes that it's debt to equity ratio is worse than a third world country, or maybe when an entire burgeoning generation of aging Americans asks, where is my medical care? Where is my Social Security, and then some responsible fiscal planning starts. Then, Americans will discover German eBay and dump their meteorites there to buy their medications in legions of "can you help a brother" sales. And suddenly charitable Germans will come to the rescue. Hmmm. 1000 collectors who would rather have an old piece of space rubble than a shining ingot of gold. That fall, ... hmmm ... two tons? Let's see. Each collector can have a couple of kilos. How much is a gram worth? Let German eBay figure it out. Unsatisfied, they will try to negotiate with the nouveau rich of a unified China. have you ever negotiated with them? They're a lot tougher than Germans... Oh yes, the "locked up in museums" defense. Maybe the Ensisheim Stone won't crack its shackles. Which other ones are so locked up...there must be a few less speculative investments no doubt, like that. But no guarantees...that's why its called business... Right now you can buy a gram of Eucrite for the price of a Big Mac hamburger. We can revisit that ratio when the US starts paying back $400 billion for Iraq and faces high oil prices despite best intentions. Then we can see is a gram of Lunar meteorites can fill my gas tank. (or maybe 10 grams a Russian's tank). Maybe Martians will be $10,000 per gram:) As long as gas isn't $200 per liter Then I'll send you some Dutch tulip bulbs to start a garden. Have a cup of Earl Grey and reminisce about when a good marketer could painfully break even buying and selling meteorites. Meteorites are not rarer than antiques. They are not rarer than anything that can be described as unique. There are a lot of unique things out there. They are rocks with a great story. And we do just love them. Money and love don't always mix well, though. Sometimes when it rains it pours and when it is dry, it's parched as a bone. Speculating about speculating is quite a spectacle, economists are never wrong! The problem is when they really start believing what they say...and convince everyone else that forward looking statements in 10-K's are sure things ... and that 8-K's don't happen... Best wishes, Doug Above is fictitious scenario. No claims are made nor is it the intention to create expectations of "truth". The future is unpredictable. Scenario planning is simply a useful tool to understand and manage risks. - Original Message - From: "Martin Altmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'David Weir'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 6:44 AM Subject: AW: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference Each meteorite has its time. Nowadays the usual price for Murchison is 60-100$/g. 7-5 years ago it was at 50-100$/g. A German collector told me, that shortly after the fall, he sent a letter to Murchison enquiring about the circumstances of this new fall. A while later a parcel came back, with nice wording and because in Murchison they were so delighted, that somebody from such a far country paid attention to that fall, they added a 50g stone for free as a little thank you. It is very simple. Meteorites are the rarest good on Earth. If from a locales the lion share is once distributed, the prices are getting higher. The pattern with new falls nowadays is always the same. First there is a hype, many fear to miss out, the first one or two offerers make the price. Depending on the quantity available and the number of additional offerors getting access to the material, the price will fall. After a while, when most of the material is gone, the prices will raise again, not so seldom transcending the initial prices. To expect a meteorite offeror to give away his goodies at the all-time lowest price, is silly. In acquiring mate
AW: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
s from meteorites, about desert hunters not picking up chondrites, cause they weren't worth a tinker's cuss and finally about 3 boyz from Germany, who augured this development years ago without being prophets. And the archives of this list will be like a far and very strange land of wonders and fairy tales. Enjoy these days in meteorite-paradise before it will be lost! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von David Weir Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. Oktober 2006 11:52 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference Don, Perhaps some people remember that Murchison typically sold for $30-40/g a dozen years ago and refuse to see the justification for such high pricing today, while others newer to the scene are content to buy high. David __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
Don, Perhaps some people remember that Murchison typically sold for $30-40/g a dozen years ago and refuse to see the justification for such high pricing today, while others newer to the scene are content to buy high. David __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
Hi Don, Murchison is one of the most wildly varying priced meteorites I've seen. The old traditional price was $100/g but you usually stuggle to get that price nowadays. I've decent pieces sell many times below that. Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: Don Merchant To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 8:18 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference Hi List. If I am out of line here I sincerely apologize to any and all I may offend. Can some one explain why such a HUGE difference in auction price! I'm confused here. Check out both auctions and compare. Maybe there is something I'm missing here except my wallet! Sincerely Don Merchant http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&item=320021921340&rd=1&; sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&item=320032119384&rd=1&; sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
AW: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
Hi Don, although the difference is astounding and the seller decided to hide his feedback and to make anonymous the bid history - (I ask myself, why any seller is doing that in a branch, where a dealer essentially lives from his/her reputation??), I can assure you that it was no shill bidding, as I know the seller in person. He had also enormous defeats to bear on ebay before... Most ebay-meteorite-sellers will be able to explain, how such differences between prices for the very same stuff happen, but they won't do, because it would mean to judge the abilities of their clients on ebay Buckleboo! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Don Merchant Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. Oktober 2006 00:18 An: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference Hi List. If I am out of line here I sincerely apologize to any and all I may offend. Can some one explain why such a HUGE difference in auction price! I'm confused here. Check out both auctions and compare. Maybe there is something I'm missing here except my wallet! Sincerely Don Merchant http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&item=320021921340&rd=1&; sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&item=320032119384&rd=1&; sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
Don, A trip to Times Square in New York City ... There's some character and a crowd oo-ing around him while three upside-down coconut shells he melodically shuffles. One of them has a pop cap under it. You watch. It's the one on the right. Some apparently innocent bystander steps up to gleefully shout "That One!" pointing to your same coconut shell. The dealer lifts it up ... and there's the pop top. The bystander snatches a twenty dollar greenback from the dealer and both sport Garfield rodent eaten grins. So you decide to match wits with such a meteoric dealer. The crowd opens up and steps aside... and there you are, through the gauntlet. Abracadabra! Whi You gasp for your hypnotic moment, and you can't even grapple for a grumbled guess. "That One!" you meekly offer, as your heart thrashes in your chest. Oh! For some enlightenment as your time expressedly expired. Before you finish aspirating your "...One", the $20 is slipped from your hand and you're done. You didn't even feel Jackson's crispy creases tickle your tingling fingers. Back to penny stocks and microchip meteorites; even though that, 'tis always that man in that yellow hat:-( Best wishes, Doug - Original Message - From: "Don Merchant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 5:18 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference > Hi List. If I am out of line here I sincerely apologize to any and all I > may offend. Can some one explain why such a HUGE difference in auction > price! I'm confused here. Check out both auctions and compare. Maybe there > is something I'm missing here except my wallet! > Sincerely > Don Merchant > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&item=320021921340&rd=1&; sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&item=320032119384&rd=1&; sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 > > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
Hi List. If I am out of line here I sincerely apologize to any and all I may offend. Can some one explain why such a HUGE difference in auction price! I'm confused here. Check out both auctions and compare. Maybe there is something I'm missing here except my wallet! Sincerely Don Merchant There is nothing to say. Its just eBay ! One day u lose on auctions and the next day You have 300% profit. -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison Price Difference
Hi List. If I am out of line here I sincerely apologize to any and all I may offend. Can some one explain why such a HUGE difference in auction price! I'm confused here. Check out both auctions and compare. Maybe there is something I'm missing here except my wallet! Sincerely Don Merchant http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&item=320021921340&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&item=320032119384&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison 2: Electric Boogaloo
Of course, even if it is real, most of us wouldn't be able to buy a piece. http://news.mcmedia.com.au/story.asp?TakeNo=200507135350467 Has a space rock hit Murchison again? July 13 2005 Shepparton News Has the space equivalent of lightning struck twice in Murchison? A meteorite famously hit the town in September 1969 and Murchison antique store owner Betty Maslin is hearing strange but similar accounts from residents about a loud bang at 9.15 pm on Saturday. "Wouldn't it be a thrill if another one has hit, wouldn't that put us back on the map," an excited Mrs Maslin said. "Several people have described a loud bang and then hearing a sound similar to gravel falling on their roof. "I think it is highly unlikely, but you never know, we might have been hit again." The original Murchison meteorite fell to earth on September 19, 1969, and is still the only observed meteorite landing in Victoria. The largest piece of the carbonaceous chondrite weighed 7 kg and contained numerous amino acids and a variety of other organic compounds that are thought to have played a role in the origin of life. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison (Ad)
As you know, I do not post ads often. I feel this is an excellent price on a choice specimen and even those not wanting to buy will enjoy the photos. I have decided to sell my Murchison whole stone. It is 34.2g and fusion crusted over about 70% of the surface (one side is secondary fusion crust, as per photos). It can be seen at: http://community.webshots.com/album/341282580voeeNc The price is under $60/g to list members for fast sale = $2,050 I will pay shipping and insurance worldwide. Please contact me off list via email or call 619 286 4837, as first to contact gets it. Thanks, Michael -- "You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are." -Herb Cohen -- If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison was a barn smasher
Greetings list, I am putting a 1 gram fragment of Murchison up for auction today. I wanted to add something additional that was interesting to my description about the fall and I found the following. >From the Meteoritical Bulletin #48 Moscow, 1970, page 107: "A fireball was seen. It was parted into three pieces before its disappearing. After that, a cloud of smoke was seen and 30 seconds later a tremor was heard. Some of the specimens were found on a road and the largest one weighing 680 g came through a roof and fell in the hay..." A good weekend to all. John __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison Amino Acids
Dear Johnathan, Bernd and List: Jonathan inquired: > Does anybody know the names of the unidentified amino > acids in Murchison? Do they even have names? Hello Jonathan and List, Just in case you wonder why nobody has responded yet. I think this is due to an "unwritten law" that we should not poach in someone else's game preserve :-) The undisputed expert in this field has always been Greg Shanos, so I guess everyone is waiting for him to chime in. Yoohoo, Greg, where are yoo? Bernd Greg Shanos replies: Bernd, thank you very much for the compliment. I have scanned and made .pdf files of all my articles on Allende and Murchison published in Meteorite! The following emails with attachments contain these articles for your reading pleasure. They are safe to download, tested and virus free. I you have any furthur questions, please do not hesitate to ask. Sincerely Greg Shanos Sarasota, Florida USA
[meteorite-list] Murchison Amino Acids
Jonathan inquired: > Does anybody know the names of the unidentified amino > acids in Murchison? Do they even have names? Hello Jonathan and List, Just in case you wonder why nobody has responded yet. I think this is due to an "unwritten law" that we should not poach in someone else's game preserve :-) The undisputed expert in this field has always been Greg Shanos, so I guess everyone is waiting for him to chime in. Yoohoo, Greg, where are yoo? Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison
Does anybody know the names of the unidentified amino acids in Murchison? Do they even have names? Jonathan M. Gore [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Wonderful Wolfgang Mozart & Albert Einstein __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison
Charles O'Dale wrote: > Bernd: I found the Murchison article fascinating! Thank you. My pleasure! > regarding the left/right distribution of organic molecules > in the meteorite, is there a theory on why life on earth > contains predominantly left handed molecules? Hello Chuck and List, On Friday, 12 Sep 1997, Ron Baalke posted this: Amino acids have been found in Murchison and other carbonaceous meteorites. There are two types of amino acids, one group which is characterized as being "left-handed" and the other group "right-handed". Amino acids can be formed from biological and non-biological means. However, it is interesting to note that all life known thus far produce the left-handed amino acids. No one really knows why life has a preference for left-handed amino acids. Murchison has been observed to have an excess of left-handed amino acids. Is this an indication of life in the Murchision meteorite? Under normal circumstances, you would expect an equal number of left-handed and right-handed amino acids to form if they were formed from non-biological means. Some people speculated that this is a sign of life in Murchison. However, the excess of left-handed amino acids alone is not an indication of life, as such an excess can be explained by non-bioligical means. The excess of left-handed amino acids in Murchison is rather small, with the excess ranging from 2.8% to 10.4%. In a paper titled "Distinguishing the Chiral* Signature of Life in the Solar System and Beyond" given by Alexandra MacDermott at the SPIE conference in July 1997, she explains how amino acids could be formed from non-biological means and show an excess of either left-hand or right-handed amino acids. It has been clearly shown in the laboratory that circular polarized light exposure can be used to force the selection of which hand amino acids will be. MacDermott proposes that early in the formation of the the solar system, it was exposed to circularly polarized radiation of a passing neutron star. Which pole of the neutron star facing the solar system would determine which hand the pre-solar dust cloud would have an excess of. MacDermott concluded that the excess of left-handed amino acids in Murchison was not due to biological means, and an excess of amino acids on its own does not necessarily imply life. MacDermott also remarked that if Richard Hoover's paper on finding possible microfossils in Murchison (which was also presented the day before at the same SPIE conference) bears out to be true, then she would have to rethink the conclusions from her paper. * chiral / chirality = (of a molecule) not superimposable on its mirror image. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison
Bernd: I found the Murchison article fascinating! Thank you. A bit off topic, but regarding the left/right distribution of organic molecules in the meteorite, is there a theory on why life on earth contains predominantly left handed molecules? Thank you Chuck
[meteorite-list] Murchison Eccore - Some statistics
Bernd quoted from S & T: > The 20th specimen then known of that most > puzzling and sought after of all meteorite types, > the carbonaceous chondrite, had arrived. C-chondrites: Number YearReference 017 1962Brian Mason, Meteorites 021 1966Max Hey, CoM, 3rd ed. 042 1977R. Hutchison, CoM, appendix to 3rd ed. 067 1985A.L. Graham, 4th ed. of the Catalogue 561 2000M. Grady, 5th ed. of the CoM 627 2002O.R. Norton, CEM, Appendix H (June 2001) 673 2002Bernd Pauli databases (October 2002) Cheers, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison and S & T (Part 2 of 2)
Organic Clues in Carbonaceous Meteorites (April, 1979, Sky & Telescope, pp. 330-332) C.R. Pellegrino and J.A. Stoff, Rockville Centre, New York When living things finally did take over the earth, the assembly of proteins was made possible only by the uptake of entirely right-handed or entirely left-handed amino acids. The geometry of long-chain carbon compounds allowed no room for random associations of both right-handed and left-handed components in their construction. On Earth, it was the left-handed variety that won acceptance. Hence, terrestrial proteins, whether they be derived from trees or mosquitoes or men (except for a special class of single-celled organisms, which utilize right-handed amino acids in their cell walls), are composed entirely of left-handed amino acids. Using a beam of plane-polarized light, it is possible to determine the right-handedness or left-handedness of a set of molecules. A right-handed molecule will twist or rotate the plane of polarization to the right, whereas the left-handed variety will twist it to the left. When homogenous mixtures of amino acids from the Murray and Murchison meteorites were examined in this manner, no such rotation was observed, indicating that both forms were present in equal quantities. These findings are reminiscent of ratios presumed to have existed in Precambrian seas prior to the emergence of cellular enzyme activity, and strongly suggest an origin held, not in the biology of cells, but in the chemistry of atoms. The nature of meteoritic amino acids is different from those on your fingertips, to be sure. Equal distributions of both molecular configurations would seem to cast serious doubts on the feasibility of their ever having been generated by any kind of cellular activity or by life as we know it. Nevertheless, comparison with other carbonaceous-chondrite meteorites occasionally leads to points of confusion. A meteorite that in 1864 fell in Orgueil, France, and a 1938 fall in lvuna, Tanganyika, contain greater traces of right-handed than left-handed amino acids. Not only does this mixture run counter to amino acids found in earthly proteins, but their tendency toward one polarity points to a possible origin in cells. We can already provide a good explanation for discrepancies of amino-acid ratios among carbonaceous chondrites. Given irradiation by light, heat, X-ray, or other energy sources, it is possible to interconvert amino acids from one form to another. For example, a solitary left-handed molecule of valine, impelled by a constant input of energy, would eventually flip over to a right-handed configuration. An entire vial of left-handed valine exposed to the radiations of the sun would, given enough time, undergo total interconversion. One should not, however, expect to recover a vial filled only with right-handed molecules since, once produced, they are as likely to flip back to the left-handed variety as left-handed molecules become right-handed. The situation is analogous to laying amillion pennies heads up (to represent left-handed molecules) in a large tray. By randomly tossing handfuls of them into the air - our application of energy - more and more of the pennies would land heads down until the distribution of heads and tails was nearly equal. Probabilities being what they are, from this point on one would always expect to find about the same number of heads and tails no matter how many more handfuls wer tossed. Thus, a vial of pure left-handed valine suspended in space and irradiated (but not fried) for a million years or so would ultimately turn up as an optically inactive mixture of left-handed and right-handed molecules, in spite of its initially pure form. The Murray and Murchison meteorites are among the lightest and least densely packed of the nearly 40 carbonaceous chondrites known today. If, during their long passage through the solar system, they were ever part of a large asteroidal body, then surely they resided on or very near its surface. Consequently, their contents were left naked to the raw energies of space, and amino acids recovered from these meteorites are presumed to have undergone many "flips of the coin" - they have become utterly randomized. A meteorite originating in the depths of a parent body would have received more adequate shielding against such energy. The lvuna and Orgueil specimens reveal compression of their matrix, suggesting the operation of mild gravitational forces exerted by overlaying rock in their respective parent bodies. Mixtures of amino acids extracted from these meteorites deviate sharply from the half-and-half composition of lighter specimens (which include the Murray and Murchison meteorites). Skewness among the denser carbonaceous chondrites infers an initial sample consisting largely or entirely of right-handed amino acids. Although the origin of these substances is still a matter of speculation, most planetary geologists and organic chemists are in agreement that they were co
[meteorite-list] Murchison and S & T (Part 1 of 2)
Organic Clues in Carbonaceous Meteorites (April, 1979, Sky & Telescope, pp. 330-332) C.R. Pellegrino and J.A. Stoff, Rockville Centre, New York On September 28, 1969, an ancient rock mass slammed into the upper atmosphere somewhere above Australia. It slid, danced, and leaped through the air, then exploded over the town of Murchison. For several days thereafter residents and scientists recovered curious shards of grayish matter from fields, roadsides, and rooftops. The pieces resembled dried carbon-rich clay and crumbled with similar ease. Upon closer examination, their matrix appeared to be studded with tiny glasslike spheres. When these were sectioned and viewed under a microscope, concentric layers of material, not unlike those distinctive patterns recognized in pearls, became visible. Further analysis revealed unexpected traces of water (as high as 10 percent by weight) locked inside the stony fragments. The 20th specimen then known of that most puzzling and sought after of all meteorite types, the carbonaceous chondrite, had arrived. Nearly three years later, scientists at NASA's Ames Research Center in California confirmed the presence of 17 different fatty acids and 18 amino acids in fragments of the Murchison meteorite. These highly complex substances are composed of organic elements and, when woven properly together, comprise the foundations of cellular life. But one very important question soon arose: were these substances truly indigenous to the meteorite, or did the meteorite, upon its penetration into our atmosphere, begin to "breathe in" earthly contaminants? After all, a mere fingerprint on its surface would have contributed most of the common amino acids known here on Earth. During the three-year investigation that followed its arrival, the Murchison meteorite was examined and compared closely with another carbonaceous chondrite that had fallen near Murray, Kentucky, 19 years earlier. The results were impressively similar. Of the 18 amino acids detected in the two meteorites, the 12 most abundant are seldom if ever associated with the living tissues of terrestrial plants and animals. The remaining six (valine, alanine, glycine, proline, aspartic acid, and glutamic acid) are prominent in earthly proteins, but relatively scarce in carbonecous chondrites. The first of a long series of paradoxes had begun to emerge. The meteorites may have originated in an age when the "dust" of the solar nebula was falling together into little bodies that became celestial vacuum cleaners, ever increasing in girth as they continued to sweep up debris in their path. Some, like our own earth, accumulated great mass. Their interiors began to heat up. Gases, steam, and vaporized rock held fast to their shifting skin: the primordial atmospheres were born. Whether the result of a cataclysm involving the collision of ancient worlds or simply a collection of discarded planetary scraps left hanging about the sun, a thin belt of solar driftwood - the asteroids -spreads wide between Mars and Jupiter. It is from this belt that most meteorites seem to originate. The presence of organized elements and hydrocarbons in some of these meteorites leaves several unanswered questions. These substances seem to have no business being out there in the first place. If they are native to the meteorites, then we are faced with a perplexing fact: these carbon compounds were somehow lifted, against entropy, to a highly ordered state from vast numbers of random dissociated, inanimate atoms, and gathered up and arranged in their present condition of seemingly improbable symmetry. Given only the extreme temperatures, damaging radiation, and near emptiness of outer space, it is not likely that this kind of clustering could have proceeded in objects so small as stones, boulders, or even asteroids (nor that it should be reproduced so agreeably among individual samples). Detailed comparisons with earthly tissues seem only to sharpen the contrasts between terrestrial proteins and the kinds of molecular ornamentation typically recovered from carbonaceous chondrites. That the history of these compounds differs from our own is underscored by important eccentricities in their molecular structure. It is generally believed by organic chemists that when the earth was still in its infancy, when its vapors had condensed into newly formed seas and its shroud of air lacked destructive oxidizing agents, the first organic acids were probably assembled in two very distinct varieties. Valine, for example, possibly occurred as mirror images of itself, much in the same way as your right and left hands are mirror images, or isomers, of each other. In those days before the dawn of living self-replicating matter, both "right-handed" and "left-handed" molecules might have drifted about the Precambrian seas in equal or near-equal quantities. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/l
Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison Main Mass & Thanks
G'day again List, Firstly thank you to everyone who replied to my post. I had 6 replies within an hour!!! Thanks to Rob Wesel for this information from the CoM page he copied and forwarded to me. From what I can gather, it seems that the FNMH in Chicago has PIECES totalling 40.7kg followed by 30kg in Washington. The largest INDIVIDUAL MASS is 7kg in Tempe at the Arizona State University. I believe one source said the next largest is about 5.4kg in Melbourne. I was pleased about that one! ;-) Thanks again to everyone, Jeff KuykenI.M.C.A. #3085www.meteoritesaustralia.com - Original Message - From: "Bernd Pauli HD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "M come Meteorite Meteorites" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Jeff Kuyken" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Meteorite List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 5:44 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Murchison Main Mass > Jeff inquired:> > > Can somebody please tell me where the main mass of> > the Murchison (CM2) fall resides? Also the deatils> > of its size and any other information would also be> > appreciated.> > Matteo responded:> > > From Meteorite Catalogue: kg.40.7 in FMNH, Chicago> > I do not if this is the real main mass. Regards, Matteo> > > Hello Jeff, Matteo, and List,> > The Catalogue also says:> > A shower of stones fell in an area of over 5 square miles.> The l a r g e s t stone weighed about 7 kg, and over 100 kg> were recovered, Met.Bull.48, 1969, Meteoritics 5, 1970, p.107.> > Some references:> > SHANOS G. (1998) Murchison - The Forgotten Meteorite> (M!, Aug. 98, Vol. 4, No. 3, pp. 32-33).> > SHANOS G. (1999) Carbon in the Murchison CM2 Carbonaceous> chondrite (M!, Aug. 99, Vol. 5, No. 3, pp. 38-40).> > NORTON O.R. (1999) Centerpiece: Murchison CM2 - A Thirtieth> Anniversary (M!, Aug. 99, Vol. 5, No. 3, pp. 22-23).> > SHANOS G. (2002) Sweet and sour meteorites (Meteorite, Aug 2002,> Vol. 8, No. 3, pp.18-19).> > HAAG R. (1997) Field Guide of Meteorites (12th Anniversary Edition,> 1997, p. 36).> > > Best rainy Sunday> morning regards,> > Bernd> > __> Meteorite-list mailing list> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison Main Mass
Jeff inquired: > Can somebody please tell me where the main mass of > the Murchison (CM2) fall resides? Also the deatils > of its size and any other information would also be > appreciated. Matteo responded: > From Meteorite Catalogue: kg.40.7 in FMNH, Chicago > I do not if this is the real main mass. Regards, Matteo Hello Jeff, Matteo, and List, The Catalogue also says: A shower of stones fell in an area of over 5 square miles. The l a r g e s t stone weighed about 7 kg, and over 100 kg were recovered, Met.Bull.48, 1969, Meteoritics 5, 1970, p.107. Some references: SHANOS G. (1998) Murchison - The Forgotten Meteorite (M!, Aug. 98, Vol. 4, No. 3, pp. 32-33). SHANOS G. (1999) Carbon in the Murchison CM2 Carbonaceous chondrite (M!, Aug. 99, Vol. 5, No. 3, pp. 38-40). NORTON O.R. (1999) Centerpiece: Murchison CM2 - A Thirtieth Anniversary (M!, Aug. 99, Vol. 5, No. 3, pp. 22-23). SHANOS G. (2002) Sweet and sour meteorites (Meteorite, Aug 2002, Vol. 8, No. 3, pp.18-19). HAAG R. (1997) Field Guide of Meteorites (12th Anniversary Edition, 1997, p. 36). Best rainy Sunday morning regards, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison Main Mass
G'Day, Mate and List, the known repository Information on Murchison is : 40.3 kg Field Museum for National History, Chicago, 30.0 kg National Museum, Washington, 5.4 kg Melbourne Museum, Victoria, Australia, 4.6 kg Arizona State University, Tempe, 2.5 kg National History Museum, London, to name the larger chunks. I would have even beeen happy with a nice 100 grams. -- Best_regards Best regards from DOWN-UNDER, Norbert & Heike Kammel ROCKS ON FIRE IMCA #3420 www.rocksonfire.com
Re: [meteorite-list] Murchison Main Mass
Hello all >From Meteorite Catalogue: kg.40.7 in FMNH, Chicago I do not if this is the real main mass. Regards Matteo --- Jeff Kuyken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > G'day List, > > Can somebody please tell me where the main mass of > the Murchison (CM2) fall resides? Also the deatils > of it's size and any other information would also be > appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Jeff Kuyken > I.M.C.A. #3085 > www.meteoritesaustralia.com > = M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EBAY.COM:http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison Main Mass
G'day List, Can somebody please tell me where the main mass of the Murchison (CM2) fall resides? Also the deatils of it's size and any other information would also be appreciated. Thanks, Jeff KuykenI.M.C.A. #3085www.meteoritesaustralia.com
[meteorite-list] Murchison, Australia Map?
"Jeff K." wrote: > Hi everyone, Hi Jeff and List! > I was wondering if anyone out there has a resonably > detailed map of the fall area for the 1969 Murchison, > Victoria, Australia fall. Even a link to a web address > would be much appreciated! Maybe these references are helpful: HALLIDAY I. et al. (1990) Orbit of the Murchison Meteorite (Meteoritics 25-4, 1990, 339-340). SEARGENT D.A.J. (1990) The Murchison meteorite: Circumstances of its fall (Meteoritics 25-4, 1990, 341-342). Seargent's article features a sketchy map of the strewnfield! > Happy New Year, Happy New Year! Bernd Show your support at the Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund - http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/my-pay-page/PKAXFNQH7EKCX/058-5084202-7156648 ___ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Murchison, Australia Map?
Hi everyone, I was wondering if anyone out there has a resonably detailed map of the fall area for the 1969 Murchison, Victoria, Australia fall. Even a link to a web address would be much appreciated! Happy New Year, Jeff. http://my.yahoo.com.au - My Yahoo! - It's My Yahoo! Get your own! Show your support at the Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund - http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/my-pay-page/PKAXFNQH7EKCX/058-5084202-7156648 ___ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
