[meteorite-list] Stop

[M come Meteorite Meteorites]

Well, I have seen of who to trust to me and who not to
trust to me, with much surprises. I have already put
in the Spam box the email of these persons inasmuch as
I do not want nuller to that making with
these individuals, that they have the double face. To
they I only say of ashamed inasmuch as they are only
able to take in turn people - you see Marmet issue
that it sale to me for $10/gr. Mbale and
after sale to others it for $3/gr. - after you come to
say me that I make games with the prices. However I am
still waiting for the names of the persons who have
put in turn the voices on the meteorites recovered
here in Italy and all the others historys
invented from who. But these personages do not have
courage to say it in public, are better than if they
are some silent and these false information are kept
for they. I have written Stop,hour I see if also the
other individuals know this word, a lot I do
not see them if they write.

Matteo


=
M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: 
http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140
MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/

__
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

[meteorite-list] Stop

[James Sleep via Meteorite-list]

Stop__

Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the 
Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

[meteorite-list] Stop Thief!, Stop

[Fred Olsen]

Stop! Thief! Stop!

Notorious, internationally, known meteorite thief strikes again.  After
capers in Egypt and Brazil Ron Farrell of the Universe Collection and
Bethany Science has embarked on a new bit of chicanery.  He is selling
unauthorized color copies of the handmade, hand colored Ensisheim woodcut
print produced by Fred Olsen of Denver Colorado.

 I spent hundreds of hours over two years researching the original print on
which this work is based.
I visited Ensisheim, Alsace, France in August 1999 and began this project
soon after.  I searched for a good image of the original broadsheet to start
with.  I then modified the image, restored missing areas, altered the size
to fit the handmade paper, translated and hand wrote the caption. I then
transferred the image (mirror image) to a slab of hard maple and carefully
carved it out.  I then found a printer with a centuries old press who is
versed in hand printing. Together we used hundreds of pounds of pressure to
print each image, one by one, onto the French handmade paper.  Then each
print is painted by a professional artist who uses handmade (as were
available in 1492) mineral pigment paints that I make from pure mineral
crystals. The image of the Ensisheim meteorite is painted with pigments I
make from ground meteorite.


Ron  "the Con" Farrell got my print from Louis Carion in Tucson in 2001, and
started
selling his rip-off color copies of my print in 2002.




__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] STOP, please

[Michael L Blood]

Dear Mr Kieskowski,
Please stop now.
Everyone else, perhaps if everyone stops addressing Mr. Kieskowski
on the list he will stop posting.
Thanks, Michael




on 4/1/04 6:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Uncool? Who are you? Wavy Gravy?
> 
> Bill Kieskowski
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

--
When Jesus said "Love your enemies" I think he probably
meant don't kill them.
   Anonymous
--
For perspective, try THIS:
http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/scienceopticsu/powersof10/index.html
--
cool message fro Ben & Jerry:
www.TrueMajority.org/oreo
--
AMAZING photos of Aurora Borealis, etc.
http://faculty.rmwc.edu/tmichalik/atmosphere.htm
--
Hubble space telescope - AMAZING photos!:
http://wires.news.com.au/special/mm/030811-hubble.htm
--
http://www.costofwar.com/
--
SUPPORT OUR TROUPS:
http://www.takebackthemedia.com/onearmy.html
--
Worth Seeing:  Earth at night from satellite:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg
--
- Interactive Lady Liberty:
http://doody36.home.attbi.com/liberty.htm
-- 
Earth - variety of choices:
http://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/vplanet.html
--
Michael Blood Meteorites:
http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/




__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Thief!, Stop

[Walter Branch]

Hi Fred,

Are you serious?  Man, there is no end to this guy.  Have you contacted him
about this?  Your prints are copyrighted, right?  Have you contacted the
proper authorities?

-Walter
--
www.branchmeteorites.com
Walter Branch, Ph.D.
Branch Meteorites
PO Box 60492
Savannah, GA  31420



- Original Message - 
From: "Fred Olsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "meteorite-list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 11:55 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Stop Thief!, Stop


> Stop! Thief! Stop!
>
> Notorious, internationally, known meteorite thief strikes again.  After
> capers in Egypt and Brazil Ron Farrell of the Universe Collection and
> Bethany Science has embarked on a new bit of chicanery.  He is selling
> unauthorized color copies of the handmade, hand colored Ensisheim woodcut
> print produced by Fred Olsen of Denver Colorado.
>
>  I spent hundreds of hours over two years researching the original print
on
> which this work is based.
> I visited Ensisheim, Alsace, France in August 1999 and began this project
> soon after.  I searched for a good image of the original broadsheet to
start
> with.  I then modified the image, restored missing areas, altered the size
> to fit the handmade paper, translated and hand wrote the caption. I then
> transferred the image (mirror image) to a slab of hard maple and carefully
> carved it out.  I then found a printer with a centuries old press who is
> versed in hand printing. Together we used hundreds of pounds of pressure
to
> print each image, one by one, onto the French handmade paper.  Then each
> print is painted by a professional artist who uses handmade (as were
> available in 1492) mineral pigment paints that I make from pure mineral
> crystals. The image of the Ensisheim meteorite is painted with pigments I
> make from ground meteorite.
>
>
> Ron  "the Con" Farrell got my print from Louis Carion in Tucson in 2001,
and
> started
> selling his rip-off color copies of my print in 2002.
>
>
>
>
> __
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Thief!, Stop

[M come Meteorite Meteorites]

Ron Farrell is well know for this methods, it has made
the same thing putting for sale a piece of DaG 489
when instead not there were pieces in circulation

Matteo


--- Walter Branch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Fred,
> 
> Are you serious?  Man, there is no end to this guy. 
> Have you contacted him
> about this?  Your prints are copyrighted, right? 
> Have you contacted the
> proper authorities?
> 
> -Walter
> --
> www.branchmeteorites.com
> Walter Branch, Ph.D.
> Branch Meteorites
> PO Box 60492
> Savannah, GA  31420
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Fred Olsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "meteorite-list"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 11:55 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Stop Thief!, Stop
> 
> 
> > Stop! Thief! Stop!
> >
> > Notorious, internationally, known meteorite thief
> strikes again.  After
> > capers in Egypt and Brazil Ron Farrell of the
> Universe Collection and
> > Bethany Science has embarked on a new bit of
> chicanery.  He is selling
> > unauthorized color copies of the handmade, hand
> colored Ensisheim woodcut
> > print produced by Fred Olsen of Denver Colorado.
> >
> >  I spent hundreds of hours over two years
> researching the original print
> on
> > which this work is based.
> > I visited Ensisheim, Alsace, France in August 1999
> and began this project
> > soon after.  I searched for a good image of the
> original broadsheet to
> start
> > with.  I then modified the image, restored missing
> areas, altered the size
> > to fit the handmade paper, translated and hand
> wrote the caption. I then
> > transferred the image (mirror image) to a slab of
> hard maple and carefully
> > carved it out.  I then found a printer with a
> centuries old press who is
> > versed in hand printing. Together we used hundreds
> of pounds of pressure
> to
> > print each image, one by one, onto the French
> handmade paper.  Then each
> > print is painted by a professional artist who uses
> handmade (as were
> > available in 1492) mineral pigment paints that I
> make from pure mineral
> > crystals. The image of the Ensisheim meteorite is
> painted with pigments I
> > make from ground meteorite.
> >
> >
> > Ron  "the Con" Farrell got my print from Louis
> Carion in Tucson in 2001,
> and
> > started
> > selling his rip-off color copies of my print in
> 2002.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
>
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> 
> 
> __
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


=
M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: 
http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140
MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/

__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Thief!, Stop

[harlan trammell]

didn't this guy have some kinda scam w/ ga tektites at one time? did he rip 'em off from some collection?
>From: "Walter Branch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Fred Olsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"meteorite-list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Thief!, Stop 
>Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 05:18:51 -0500 
> 
>Hi Fred, 
> 
>Are you serious? Man, there is no end to this guy. Have you contacted him 
>about this? Your prints are copyrighted, right? Have you contacted the 
>proper authorities? 
> 
>-Walter 
>-- 
>www.branchmeteorites.com 
>Walter Branch, Ph.D. 
>Branch Meteorites 
>PO Box 60492 
>Savannah, GA 31420 
> 
> 
> 
>- Original Message - 
>From: "Fred Olsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "meteorite-list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 11:55 PM 
>Subject: [meteorite-list] Stop Thief!, Stop 
> 
> 
> > Stop! Thief! Stop! 
> > 
> > Notorious, internationally, known meteorite thief strikes again. After 
> > capers in Egypt and Brazil Ron Farrell of the Universe Collection and 
> > Bethany Science has embarked on a new bit of chicanery. He is selling 
> > unauthorized color copies of the handmade, hand colored Ensisheim woodcut 
> > print produced by Fred Olsen of Denver Colorado. 
> > 
> > I spent hundreds of hours over two years researching the original print 
>on 
> > which this work is based. 
> > I visited Ensisheim, Alsace, France in August 1999 and began this project 
> > soon after. I searched for a good image of the original broadsheet to 
>start 
> > with. I then modified the image, restored missing areas, altered the size 
> > to fit the handmade paper, translated and hand wrote the caption. I then 
> > transferred the image (mirror image) to a slab of hard maple and carefully 
> > carved it out. I then found a printer with a centuries old press who is 
> > versed in hand printing. Together we used hundreds of pounds of pressure 
>to 
> > print each image, one by one, onto the French handmade paper. Then each 
> > print is painted by a professional artist who uses handmade (as were 
> > available in 1492) mineral pigment paints that I make from pure mineral 
> > crystals. The image of the Ensisheim meteorite is painted with pigments I 
> > make from ground meteorite. 
> > 
> > 
> > Ron "the Con" Farrell got my print from Louis Carion in Tucson in 2001, 
>and 
> > started 
> > selling his rip-off color copies of my print in 2002. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > __ 
> > Meteorite-list mailing list 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 
> > 
> 
> 
>__ 
>Meteorite-list mailing list 
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 
 Enjoy MSN 8 patented spam control and more with MSN 8 Dial-up Internet Service.  Try it FREE for one month!   

__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Thief!, Stop

[Steve Schoner]

Copyright infringement case That is what it looks like to me.
 
Even if you do not have it specifically marked as "copyright" it still is.
 
Send Mr. Farrell a direct and pointed letter from a lawyer that will be interested in taking this case, to "stop" the infringement immediately.
 
If not, have at him.
 
Steve SchonerM come Meteorite Meteorites <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ron Farrell is well know for this methods, it has madethe same thing putting for sale a piece of DaG 489when instead not there were pieces in circulationMatteo--- Walter Branch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:> Hi Fred,> > Are you serious? Man, there is no end to this guy. > Have you contacted him> about this? Your prints are copyrighted, right? > Have you contacted the> proper authorities?> > -Walter> --> www.branchmeteorites.com> Walter Branch, Ph.D.> Branch Meteorites> PO Box 60492> Savannah, GA 31420> > > > - Original Message - > From: "Fred Olsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: "meteorite-list"> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> Sent: Thursday,
 October 30, 2003 11:55 PM> Subject: [meteorite-list] Stop Thief!, Stop> > > > Stop! Thief! Stop!> >> > Notorious, internationally, known meteorite thief> strikes again. After> > capers in Egypt and Brazil Ron Farrell of the> Universe Collection and> > Bethany Science has embarked on a new bit of> chicanery. He is selling> > unauthorized color copies of the handmade, hand> colored Ensisheim woodcut> > print produced by Fred Olsen of Denver Colorado.> >> > I spent hundreds of hours over two years> researching the original print> on> > which this work is based.> > I visited Ensisheim, Alsace, France in August 1999> and began this project> > soon after. I searched for a good image of the> original broadsheet to> start> > with. I then modified the image, restored
 missing> areas, altered the size> > to fit the handmade paper, translated and hand> wrote the caption. I then> > transferred the image (mirror image) to a slab of> hard maple and carefully> > carved it out. I then found a printer with a> centuries old press who is> > versed in hand printing. Together we used hundreds> of pounds of pressure> to> > print each image, one by one, onto the French> handmade paper. Then each> > print is painted by a professional artist who uses> handmade (as were> > available in 1492) mineral pigment paints that I> make from pure mineral> > crystals. The image of the Ensisheim meteorite is> painted with pigments I> > make from ground meteorite.> >> >> > Ron "the Con" Farrell got my print from Louis> Carion in Tucson in 2001,> and> >
 started> > selling his rip-off color copies of my print in> 2002.> >> >> >> >> > __> > Meteorite-list mailing list> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list> >> > > __> Meteorite-list mailing list> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list=M come Meteorite - Matteo ChinellatoVia Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALYEmail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.infoInternational Meteorite Collectors Association #2140MSN Messanger:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/__Do you Yahoo!?Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spearshttp://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/__Meteorite-list mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Do you Yahoo!?
Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears

Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Thief!, Stop

[Impactika]

In a message dated 10/30/2003 9:53:12 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Notorious, internationally, known meteorite thief strikes again.  After
capers in Egypt and Brazil Ron Farrell of the Universe Collection and
Bethany Science has embarked on a new bit of chicanery.  He is selling
unauthorized color copies of the handmade, hand colored Ensisheim woodcut
print produced by Fred Olsen of Denver Colorado.



I would like to make one thing absolutely crystal clear:
The Ensisheim prints for sale on my site (www.IMPACTIKA.com/Ensisheim.htm), are the Authentic Handmade and Hand-Colored Woodcut Prints from Fred Olsen.
Only a limited number was made, they are numbered. And I am the only one selling them on the Internet and at a few Shows.

And I get them directly from Fred. Living in the same city probably has something to do with that.
If you have any questions, please contact Fred or me.

Anne M. Black
www. IMPACTIKA.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
IMCA  #2356

Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Thief!, Stop

[E.J]

You can also claim damages and ask for a royalty on each print sold... 
AS I understand it.

NOT at Bar,
Elton
Steve Schoner wrote:
Copyright infringement case That is what it looks like to me.
 
Even if you do not have it specifically marked as "copyright" it still is.
 
Send Mr. Farrell a direct and pointed letter from a lawyer that will 
be interested in taking this case, to "stop" the infringement immediately.
 
If not, have at him.
 
Steve Schoner




__
Meteorite-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

[meteorite-list] STOP, please just stop

[Michael Farmer]

Steve, ACTUALLY it did have to do with an ad. You
clearly stated that the material would be on your
website and pieces available. Please take a break,
read your own emails, and don't assume that we are all
idiots. I think these people who jump all over you are
overreacting, but you poke them in the eye with a
sharp stick daily, so this has finally come to a head.

A crappy old H chondrite from Morocco is hardly
newsworthy. I have thousands of them in storage. Give
it a break already. 
Michael Farmer


--- steve arnold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello to all the list.What tom phillips said,about
> the
> ugly chondrite was correct.All I was trying to do
> was
> to start a forum (discussion) about this very
> interesting meteorite soon to be classified.W ell
> now
> you know the truth.It had nothing to do about an
> add.It had nothing about givaways.It had nothing to
> do
> about sales.It had nothing to but about the TRUTH.A
> discussion on meteorites.Well with more
> vacations,more
> family time,and with work starting to go into the
> busy
> season,I have decided to put all posts to the list
> on
> hold for the rest of the year.I want to give all the
> naysayers time to relax,reflect and just plain get a
> life.I have had it with all this crap for the last 3
> years.
> 
> Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!!
>   Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!!
>   chicagometeorites.net.Specializing
>   in Gao Meteorites!
>   Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites
> 
> 
> 
>  
>

> Park yourself in front of a world of choices in
> alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green
> Center.
> http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ 
> __
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 

__
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

[meteorite-list] stop harrasing me about posts

[Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!]

Hello list.It is time to blow off some steam tonight toward some list
members.People are betting with each other when I blow my promises about
psoting with another means.Now I think that is down right moronic.People
still bug me about my givaways.Why I just do not know.It really pains me
to have to block email address because all some list members want to do is
harras me for posting to much.Now when I post this, there will probably be
50 more emails condemning me for this.Well you can see where the
immaturaty lies.In 2 days I will be going to mexico for a nice 10
days.Away from computers,cell phones, tv everything that is electronic.It
will be a nicely deserverd vacation.I also know some of you will be
estatic.Well despite the indifferences that some list members have with
me,I will not be detered from speaking my mind.As far as I am concerned I
have done nothing wrong,and I still have never done anything to anyone to
warrant continue harrasment from certain list members.People call me DUMB
F***,A**HOLE,DUMBA**,MENTAL MIDGET,STUPID MORON,etc.This is coming from
people with whom I have met and talked and drank meteorites.I  just do not
know where the attitude has come from in just a short time towards me.It
is amazing!Well I also know that I have my fan base out there.I really
want to thank them for thier support.I know if the posting becomes a small
roar, and not a huge roar, I might win back some of those people whom
continue to boycott me.Well I have enjoyed doing the givaways,I have
enjoyed selling on ebay,and I have enjoyed selling to people as well.Also
I just want to put to rest one thing.I have NEVER,NEVER cut or broken any
of my meteorites, to givaway as freebies.These pieces were either
broken,or I just gave away the whole piece.NO CUT OR BROKEN PIECES.I
treasure these other worldly pieces from space just as much as the next
collecter.I have nothing to apoligize for to anyone,unless I have done
something wrong.Well that is my steam vent venting and it has cooled
down.I hope everyone has a great weekend and week ahead,and I look forward
to posting again when I get back.I will also have pictures to post on my
website of my vacation.Also while I am down there,I will do some meteorite
hunting.Good night all form chicago at 8:32pm.


steve arnold, chicago,usa!!

Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 
 

Illinois Meteorites,Ltd!


website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com
 
 
 
 
 
 












__ 
Discover Yahoo! 
Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out! 
http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html
__
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

[meteorite-list] Stop thieves! Meteorite marauders of Norway!

[Michael Mazur]

I tried sending this a couple of days ago but it never made it to the 
list. Here goes again,



Aug. 11th the University of Oslo published the following article on 
their website.


http://wo.uio.no/as/WebObjects/avis.woa/wa/visArtikkel?id=30585&del=uniforum 



Nice pictures of the rock but I felt that the commentary was a bit over 
the top so I've translated it for your reading pleasure. It looks like 
there is a steep road to climb for meteorite hunters and collectors in 
Norway. There aren't many of us but I'd like to think that we're not 
thieves who don't care about science as is implied by the article. If 
you disagree with Elen's proposal, maybe a gentle note explaining how 
you think meteorite collectors and dealers can and do help science would 
be a good idea. Not that I suggested it of course.


Enjoy.

Be aware that I may have missed a few norwegian words but I think that I 
got it right for the most part.

___

Private meteorite hunters have come to Norway to find and sell pieces of 
the meteorite that fell down over Østfold on July 14^th to international 
collectors. Director of the Natural History Museum (University of Oslo) 
seeks a precise law in order to stop 'meteorite theives'.


By Yngve Vogt

International meteorite hunters have been tempted by the summer's rare 
meteorite fall in Østfold. They hunt after pieces of the meteorite and 
can earn 10,000's of Kroner (>1,500USD) by selling to the highest 
bidder. Today, there are no legal regulations that can prevent this.


To this day, three pieces of the Østfold meteorite have been found. 
International buyers stand in queue. This afternoon, the highest offer 
was 150,000 Kroner (~25,000USD) for a piece that came down in a yard 
while the family was on vacation.


- This a very high amount for the Natural History, says director of the 
Natural History Museum, Elen Roaldset. She seeks, therefore, a precise 
law that will make it so that pieces of meteorites will not be sold to 
private collectors, but will be owned by the state and will be useful to 
research.


- There is big commercial interest in meteorites. In the Moss area there 
are rumours that meteorite hunters have come from near and far. Several 
meteorite hunters have already come from America and Germany. As long as 
there are no laws, it is very tempting for them to sell meteorite 
material to the highest bidders and to international collectors. Then 
the meteorites disappear out of the country. This means that one can not 
do groundbreaking scientific research. It is via meteorites that we have 
the possibility to gather knowledge about the formation of the earth and 
the solar system, points out Elen Roaldset.


The meteorite that fell over Østfold on the 14^th of July of this year 
is the 14^th meteorite that has fallen in Norway since the Natural 
History Museum started registering (falls). The meteorite in Østfold, 
according to Knut Jørgen Røed Ødegaard, very rare and the fifth 
meteorite of its type. The last time that a comparable meteorite fell, 
was in Russia in 1937.


Each time a new meteorite is found, the meteorite must be registered and 
approved by an international commission.


Wishes clear rules
The problem with private meteorite hunters happened already when the 
78.67kg Finnmarken meteorite fell over Alta in 1902. Then many 
collectors appeared and sold pieces of the meteorite to other lands. 
Then geology professor W.C. Brøgger, who later became the university's 
rector, wrote already about the need for a meteorite law in 1903.


Elen Roaldset seeks now norwegian regulations that will be just as 
strict as those around the finds of old cultural treasures.


- A law is needed that takes care of fossils and the type of object that 
fell over Moss, and that can (protect) the scientific interests of 
mankind. This law ought to be comparable to the cultural properties law 
that takes care of viking treasures, says Elen Roaldset.


She points out that todays laws are imprecise. The problem is the 
commercial value that causes problems between finders, property owners, 
and the state.


- What happens if a valuable object falls down on private property? Does 
the mountain (presumably mining) law or the property law apply?


Danish meteorite law
Denmark has solved the legal problem by introducing a law that meteorite 
finds are property of the state. Also Canada has introduced a comparable 
law (not strictly true of course).


The danish bill secures the most important natural history finds for the 
danish public.


The danish museum law says that objects shall be turned over to the 
state when they are found in Denmark after January 1990. If the state 
wishes to keep one of these objects, the finder or owner of the object 
will get a reward. The size of the reward is dependent on the scientific 
or display value and how 

[meteorite-list] STOP THIS CRAP sorry bad news

[Midwest Meteorman]

Just say no


- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "aziz habibi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 

Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] sorry bad news


Aziz, do me a favor, and do not call me or my wife again.
Any problems that I or the Hupes have in Morocco are your doing.
do not call me drunk again, you just left 3 messages on my answering 
machine, babbling like an idiot, drunk. Is not it not illegal for Muslims 
to drink alcohol?
I considered you a friend, but any problems I have in Morocco are from 
you. You are the only one who talks too much, spreads rumors, tells lies.
Why can't you leave people alone?
When you wake up, or sober up, then email me, do not call me.
And do not threaten me.
Michael Farmer
- Original Message - 
From: "aziz habibi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 9:27 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] sorry bad news


hello list and alll
mike farmer and the hupes could not make it to morrroco again and never 
again.
*i m sorry but  i can  help it
sorry again
but its over


allthe best
aziz
_
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! 
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

__
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

__
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
__
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] stop harrasing me about posts

[Darren Garrison]

On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:33:27 -0700 (PDT), "Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!" <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>F***,A**HOLE,DUMBA**,MENTAL MIDGET,STUPID MORON,etc.This is coming from
>people with whom I have met and talked and drank meteorites.I  just do not

Maybe it comes from the drinking of meteorites.  Those heavy metals can't be 
good for you.
__
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] stop harrasing me about posts

[j . divelbiss]

Darren,

Good advice and testament against the intake of heavy metals. I've noticed it 
can also cause one to become a DIPSH*T and a PEABRAIN too. 

Easy on the extraterrestrial sauce folks...Darren maybe on to something here.

JD

-- Original message from Darren Garrison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: 
-- 


> On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:33:27 -0700 (PDT), "Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!" 
> 
> wrote: 
> 
> >F***,A**HOLE,DUMBA**,MENTAL MIDGET,STUPID MORON,etc.This is coming from 
> >people with whom I have met and talked and drank meteorites.I just do not 
> 
> Maybe it comes from the drinking of meteorites. Those heavy metals can't be 
> good for you. 
> __ 
> Meteorite-list mailing list 
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com 
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 
__
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] stop harrasing me about posts

[Gtceb]

TTEEVVEEY:
NAYSAYER #1 HERE.This is the clearest example yet of what many list 
members have been trying to stop.  
Your e-mail:

Hello list.It is time to blow off some steam tonight toward some list
members.People are betting with each other when I blow my promises about
psoting with another means. ("ANOTHER MEANS"...WHAT THE HELL DID YOU JUST 
SAY???) (IT REALLY SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT YOU SSTTOORRMMBBRRIINNGGEERR WHEN YOU 
HAVE BEEN CATEGORIZED AS A BUFFOON BY THE MAJORITY OF A SCIENTIFIC LIST, 
BREAKING 
PROMISES SO OFTEN THAT PEOPLE WAGER ON HOW QUICKLY YOU WILL BREAK YOUR 
PROMISES, AND ALSO SHOWS HOW MUCH YOU TOTALLY DISRESPECT THE LIST BY YOUR 
CONTINUED 
POSTINGS) ow I think that is down right moronic (PRETTY FUNNY STATEMENT COMING 
FROM YOU.  YOU DEFINE THE TERM MORONIC).People
still bug me about my givaways.Why I just do not know.( THIS IS THE CRUX 
(LOOK IT UP) OF YOUR PROBLEM.  YOU KEEP WRITING THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW WHY PEOPLE 
DO 
THE THINGS THEY DO TOWARDS YOU...YOU ARE EITHER 1. DUMB AS DISHWATER, 2. IN 
SERIOUS AND PATHOLOGICAL DENIAL, 3. YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR NEGATIVE IMPACT 
TOWARDS THE LIST, AND YOU DISRESPECT THE LIST BY CONTINUING TO POST YOUR 
IDIOTIC INANE MESSAGES, 4. YOU ARE DUMBER THAN DISHWATER, E. ALL OF THE ABOVE.  
I 
CHOOSE "E") It really pains me to have to block email address because all 
some list members want to do is
harras me for posting to much (SPELLCHECK BROKEN AGAIN??...I HAVE SAID THIS 
BEFORE, AND I WILL KEEP SAYING IT.  YOU HARASS HUNDREDS OF GOOD,  RULES ABIDING 
LIST MEMBERS WITH YOUR POSTS SEVERAL TIMES A DAY. PEOPLE WRITE YOU IN LARGE 
NUMBERS BECAUSE YOU CONTINUE TO ACT LIKE A MORON, AND THEY WANT YOU TO STOP.  
CAN THIS BE ANY CLEARER?) )Now when I post this, there will probably be
50 more emails condemning me for this.Well you can see where the
immaturaty(SPELLCHECK?) lies. (YES.."IT" LIES IN ELGIN ILLINOIS.  THE MAN IN 
THE HOT PANTS ON THE ILLINOIS METEORITES WEBSITE) In 2 days I will be going to 
mexico for a nice 10
days.Away from computers,cell phones, tv everything that is electronic.(THANK 
GOD.  10 DAYS AND NO SSTTEEVVEEYY POSTS)..It
will be a nicely deserverd (SPELLCHECK?) vacation.I also know some of you 
will be
estatic (SPELLCHECK?).Well despite the indifferences (WHAT?  DO YOU KNOW WHAT 
THIS WORD MEANS??  LIST MEMBERS ARE NOT INDIFFERENT TOWARDS YOU.  4 PEOPLE 
LIKE YOU, THE REST CAN'T STAND YOU..NO INDIFFERENCE HERE) that some list 
members 
have with
me,I will not be detered (SPELLCHECK??) from speaking my mind. (THERE IS THAT 
DENIAL THING AGAIN!  NO AMOUNT OF NEGATIVE FEEDBACK FROM MANY LIST MEMBERS 
WILL DETER YOU FROM RUINING THIS GREAT LIST..WE ARE JUST A BUNCH OF NAYSAYING 
"ANTI-STEVE" PEOPLE THAT HAVE RANDOMLY CHOSEN YOU AS OUR SCORNED TARGET. LOOK 
IN 
THE MIRROR.  YOU ARE NOT WANTED HERE) As far as I am concerned I
have done nothing wrong (OF COURSE NOT.  ACCORDING TO YOU, YOU HAVE NEVER 
DONE ANYTHING WRONG.  WE JUST LIKE PICKING ON YOU.  HOW ABOUT THAT IMCA THING?? 
 
DID THE PEOPLE THAT YOU HOSED THINK THAT YOU DID NOTHING WRONG?),and I still 
have never done anything to anyone to
warrant continue harrasment (SPELLCHECK???) from certain list members. (NOT 
INNOCENT DENIAL BOY SSTTEEVVEEYY.  HE HAS NEVER DONE ANYTHING WRONG...GO 
AWAY) People call me DUMB F***,A**HOLE,DUMBA**,MENTAL MIDGET,STUPID 
MORON,etc. 
(YOU LEFT OUT SO MANY...YOUR LIST IS ONLY 10% COMPLETE) This is coming from
people with whom I have met and talked and drank meteorites. (SO YOU ARE 
ADMITTING THAT EVEN PEOPLE THAT YOU THOUGHT LIKED YOU CAN'T STAND YOU NOW 
BECAUSE 
OF WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO THE LIST...DON'T YOU GET THE HINT?)I  just do not
know (YOU MUST BE JOKING AGAIN!!!) where the attitude has come from in just a 
short time towards me.  (GO BACK AND READ THE LIST ARCHIVES OF YOUR IDIOTIC 
SPAMMER POSTSYOU HAVE 0 CREDIBILITY!!!) It
is amazing! (NO, YOUR LIVING IN DENIAL IS AMAZING!!!) Well I also know that I 
have my fan base out there. (4 PEOPLE OF OF SEVERAL HUNDRED DOES NOT 
CONSTITUTE A FAN BASE) I really
want to thank them for thier (SPELLCHECK??) support. (WRITE ALL 4 OF THEM 
PRIVATELY OFF LIST.  SPARE THE LIST) I know if the posting becomes a small
roar, and not a huge roar, I might win back some of those people whom
continue to boycott me. (AFTER ALL YOU HAVE DONE TO TRY AND SINGLE-HANDEDLY 
RUIN THE LIST, YOU THINK PEOPLE ARE GOING TO LINE UP AND ASSUME THAT 
SSSTTEEVVEEY THE HUMAN SERIAL PROMISE BREAKER IS GOING TO CHANGE HIS 
SPOTS???..HAHAHAHAHA, BEST ONE I HAVE HEARD TODAY) ...Well I have enjoyed 
doing the givaways 
(SPELLCHECK???), (INGRATIATING YOURSELF BY BUYING YOUR WAY IN) I have
enjoyed selling on ebay, (NICE PICS!!!) and I have enjoyed selling to people 
as well.Also
I just want to put to rest one thing.I have NEVER,NEVER cut or broken any
of my meteorites, to givaway as freebies.(BS) These pieces were either
broken,or I just gave away the whole piece.NO CUT OR BROKEN PIECES.I
treasure these other w

Re: [meteorite-list] stop harrasing me about posts

[DNAndrews]

Blah, blah, blahblah, blahblah, blah, blah!  Same old, same 
old.  Nothing new, nothing changed.


Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! wrote:


Hello list.It is time to blow off some steam tonight toward some list
members.People are betting with each other when I blow my promises about
psoting with another means.Now I think that is down right moronic.People
still bug me about my givaways.Why I just do not know.It really pains me
to have to block email address because all some list members want to do is
harras me for posting to much.Now when I post this, there will probably be
50 more emails condemning me for this.Well you can see where the
immaturaty lies.In 2 days I will be going to mexico for a nice 10
days.Away from computers,cell phones, tv everything that is electronic.It
will be a nicely deserverd vacation.I also know some of you will be
estatic.Well despite the indifferences that some list members have with
me,I will not be detered from speaking my mind.As far as I am concerned I
have done nothing wrong,and I still have never done anything to anyone to
warrant continue harrasment from certain list members.People call me DUMB
F***,A**HOLE,DUMBA**,MENTAL MIDGET,STUPID MORON,etc.This is coming from
people with whom I have met and talked and drank meteorites.I  just do not
know where the attitude has come from in just a short time towards me.It
is amazing!Well I also know that I have my fan base out there.I really
want to thank them for thier support.I know if the posting becomes a small
roar, and not a huge roar, I might win back some of those people whom
continue to boycott me.Well I have enjoyed doing the givaways,I have
enjoyed selling on ebay,and I have enjoyed selling to people as well.Also
I just want to put to rest one thing.I have NEVER,NEVER cut or broken any
of my meteorites, to givaway as freebies.These pieces were either
broken,or I just gave away the whole piece.NO CUT OR BROKEN PIECES.I
treasure these other worldly pieces from space just as much as the next
collecter.I have nothing to apoligize for to anyone,unless I have done
something wrong.Well that is my steam vent venting and it has cooled
down.I hope everyone has a great weekend and week ahead,and I look forward
to posting again when I get back.I will also have pictures to post on my
website of my vacation.Also while I am down there,I will do some meteorite
hunting.Good night all form chicago at 8:32pm.


   steve arnold, chicago,usa!!

Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 



Illinois Meteorites,Ltd!


website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com


















__ 
Discover Yahoo! 
Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out! 
http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html

__
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

 


__
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] stop harrasing me about posts

[AL Mitterling]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I have NEVER,NEVER cut or broken any of my meteorites, to givaway as 
freebies.These pieces were either broken,or I just gave away the whole 
piece.NO CUT OR BROKEN PIECES.I treasure these other worldly pieces from 
space just as much as the next collecter.I have nothing to apoligize for 
to anyone.


Steve, you have about 10 auctions that are or were running offering 
Springwater pallasite crystals and part slice (28 gm). I picked up on 
the fact you had traded for a 122 gram slice of Springwater. A few days 
later you then have the crystals. Seem odd to me you would have both at 
the same time but of course possible.


Answer me where the 122 gram slice went to The reason I ask is I 
firmly believe you broke up the larger slice to produce the smaller 
specimens. Sorry but I don't buy what you are saying.


--AL
__
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] stop harrasing me about posts

[AL Mitterling]

Hi Steve and all,

Very unfortunate. Did the seller of the 70 gram slice refund your 
money?? I've sent out thousands of packages (US Postal System) and

only had two items with minor damage.

--AL Mitterling

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I traded away the 122 gram piece to bob c.As far as the crystals go,they
were part of a 70 gram slice that had gotten broken into a thousand 
pieces by the us mail service.So there mr.know-it-all.Quit judging 
before you know the facts.


  all my best,steve!!NOT!


--- AL Mitterling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> I have NEVER,NEVER cut or broken any of my meteorites, to givaway as
>> freebies.These pieces were either broken,or I just gave away the whole
>> piece.NO CUT OR BROKEN PIECES.I treasure these other worldly pieces from
>>
>> space just as much as the next collecter.I have nothing to apoligize for
>>
>> to anyone.
>>
>> Steve, you have about 10 auctions that are or were running offering
>> Springwater pallasite crystals and part slice (28 gm). I picked up on
>> the fact you had traded for a 122 gram slice of Springwater. A few days
>> later you then have the crystals. Seem odd to me you would have both at
>> the same time but of course possible.
>>
>> Answer me where the 122 gram slice went to The reason I ask is I
>> firmly believe you broke up the larger slice to produce the smaller
>> specimens. Sorry but I don't buy what you are saying.
>>
>> --AL
>>



Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120


Illinois Meteorites,Ltd!


website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com
__
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] stop harrasing me about posts

[Michael L Blood]

Anyone know where I can refer a buyer who wants some Gibeon beads?
RSVP off list, please.
Thanks, Michael


 
--
"You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are."
 -Herb Cohen
--
If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.

__
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

[meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! and go test it yourself!

[drvann]

Kudos for bringing this back to meteorites, Phil -
I wanted to do so by pointing out that Mike Murray's original challenge does
represent a scientific question, with an implicit hypothesis. He later made it
explicit.

The question: do dowsing rods act differently near a meteorite than they do near
man-made metal objects? He asked the question without (at least initially)
revealing why - therefore setting up a blind test.

Note that it doesn't have to work to propose the question or test it in
scientific fashion.

The hypothesis: meteorites will affect dowsing rods differently than
anthropogenic metal will. In statistical jargon (I'm one of those reviewers that
reject papers for improperly applied stats),we would present it thus: The null
hypothesis is that dowsing rods perform the same way in the presence either
meteorites or anthropogenic metal. The alternative hypothesis is that the rods
will behave differently.

Kudos for Phil for his proposal - he gets it about right. He presents the chain
of logic that provides a mechanistic explanation. [please do keep in mind that
science does not and cannot purport to examine the supernatural -it may find
that seemingly supernatural events are natural in cause, but the true
supernatural is not science]

Disturbances in the Earth's electromagnetic field that can be (if only
subconsciously) detected by a person, who translates this perception through
the ideomotor effect into a visible response. This is a hypothetical
mechanistic explanation. (this may be wrong - there may be a supernatural or
alternate natural explanation-it may be complete hokum, but it doesn't have to
work to conduct the test)

If he buries the meteorite and tests someone else who has no knowledge of its
location, this is a 'blind' test. If his neighbor buries it somewhere, but Phil
doesn't know where, and he then has a third person seek it, this is a
'double-blind' test. In the latter case, neither the subject nor the
experimentor knows the answer.

As proposed, this test can be criticized, of course. First is the problem of
sample size, one of the most common issues with experiments. If four people
seek the meteorite and all four find it, it can be shown that it is very
unlikely to be merely coincidence (but *not* impossible). A sample size of
twenty people, wherein at least 80% find the meteorite, would be very
convincing.

Second, it is suggested by some dowsers that this is a special skill.
Consequently, using randomly selected people would bias the result against a
positive finding. So, only people who claim they can use dowsing tools to
locate objects should be tested. As the group most likely to succeed, any
failure to attain a high rate of success is a demonstration that they can't (at
least) find meteorites.

Finally, the meteorite should be buried in an undetectable way - such as in a
plowed field where all the dirt is already disturbed. If you are really good at
removing and replacing divots, maybe a nice, even lawn would be a good test
platform. Conceivably, dowsing works because the person is highly attuned to
small environmental cues - slight dips in the surface over buried pipes,
changes in vegetation, whatever. They then, possibly without even understanding
what they are doing, 'read' the site and deduce where a good spot is located.
The rods merely serve to focus their attention and display the ideomotor effect
as driven by dowser's reading of environmental cues. So, we want to remove or
obfuscate any cues of this nature (from burying the test sample).

Technically, the entire chain from rods to person, etc. should be tested
separately, but that may be implausible. I don't agree with Darren's suggestion
of a mechanical dowser - I'll go (an actually very short way) out a limb and
predict that, if you do this, the motion of the rods will be completely
"random" - a hard-to-predict response to vibrations from the motion of the
robot. The dowsing effect is allegedly a human 'skill', 'sense', whatever, so I
don't think removing that variable actually tests the question.

Here is an additional, even easier, test. Have dowsers walk over your yard,
telling them that there is something out there, please find it. But don't
actually bury anything. See if they all indicate the same spot, or random
spots. If there is a consistent pattern, maybe something is going on. In any
case, dig up all the spots and see if you find anything - maybe they'll locate
that hidden pirate treasure


But, you know what? None of this tests Mr. Murray's original question. Try this:
get a big box. Place, at random, different metal objects; meteorites, pipes, tea
kettles - whatever. Each time you change the object (or better, someone changes
the object behind your back), you then challenge a dowser to see if they get
anything when passing over the box. They should get nothing when the box is
empty, and either nothing or something as you change metals. If they correctly
determine whether there is anything in the b

[meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! and go test it yourself!

[JoshuaTreeMuseum]

Dr. Vann:
Those are some excellent suggestions for conducting an experiment.  I don't 
know any dowsers, so I would have to use regular people. My kids are looking 
forward to doing this. I was thinking of carefully replacing the turf and 
using a leaf covered area. You read my mind (!), I was going to put the 
Odessa in a plastic bag. I didn't think the bag would effect any 
electromagnetic charge disturbance or whatever it is the magnetite or the 
unknown brain molecules would be detecting and translating into a motor 
response causing the rods to cross.


The soil around here is pretty damp this time of year, I would hesitate to 
bury any iron meteorite for very long. I wouldn't have to go far to find 
drier sandy soil though. I have access to Campos and Muonionalustas, (both 
known rusters), Gibeons, Canyon Diablos, a mostly iron Seymchan and a few 
other large irons. Probably the Gibeon would be best. I like your idea of 
using anthropogenic metals as an independent variable.


Not that I believe in dowsing, this will be a fun experiment and video for 
the kids. I do however believe there are real phenomena that no one can 
explain, e.g. hypnotism and it's all to easy to naysay with a closed mind.


Thanks for the ideas.

Phil Whitmer

--

Kudos for bringing this back to meteorites, Phil -
I wanted to do so by pointing out that Mike Murray's original challenge does
represent a scientific question, with an implicit hypothesis. He later made 
it

explicit.

The question: do dowsing rods act differently near a meteorite than they do 
near

man-made metal objects? He asked the question without (at least initially)
revealing why - therefore setting up a blind test.

Note that it doesn't have to work to propose the question or test it in
scientific fashion.

The hypothesis: meteorites will affect dowsing rods differently than
anthropogenic metal will. In statistical jargon (I'm one of those reviewers 
that
reject papers for improperly applied stats),we would present it thus: The 
null

hypothesis is that dowsing rods perform the same way in the presence either
meteorites or anthropogenic metal. The alternative hypothesis is that the 
rods

will behave differently.

Kudos for Phil for his proposal - he gets it about right. He presents the 
chain
of logic that provides a mechanistic explanation. [please do keep in mind 
that

science does not and cannot purport to examine the supernatural -it may find
that seemingly supernatural events are natural in cause, but the true
supernatural is not science]

Disturbances in the Earth's electromagnetic field that can be (if only
subconsciously) detected by a person, who translates this perception through
the ideomotor effect into a visible response. This is a hypothetical
mechanistic explanation. (this may be wrong - there may be a supernatural or
alternate natural explanation-it may be complete hokum, but it doesn't have 
to

work to conduct the test)

If he buries the meteorite and tests someone else who has no knowledge of 
its
location, this is a 'blind' test. If his neighbor buries it somewhere, but 
Phil

doesn't know where, and he then has a third person seek it, this is a
'double-blind' test. In the latter case, neither the subject nor the
experimentor knows the answer.

As proposed, this test can be criticized, of course. First is the problem of
sample size, one of the most common issues with experiments. If four people
seek the meteorite and all four find it, it can be shown that it is very
unlikely to be merely coincidence (but *not* impossible). A sample size of
twenty people, wherein at least 80% find the meteorite, would be very
convincing.

Second, it is suggested by some dowsers that this is a special skill.
Consequently, using randomly selected people would bias the result against a
positive finding. So, only people who claim they can use dowsing tools to
locate objects should be tested. As the group most likely to succeed, any
failure to attain a high rate of success is a demonstration that they can't 
(at

least) find meteorites.

Finally, the meteorite should be buried in an undetectable way - such as in 
a
plowed field where all the dirt is already disturbed. If you are really good 
at

removing and replacing divots, maybe a nice, even lawn would be a good test
platform. Conceivably, dowsing works because the person is highly attuned to
small environmental cues - slight dips in the surface over buried pipes,
changes in vegetation, whatever. They then, possibly without even 
understanding
what they are doing, 'read' the site and deduce where a good spot is 
located.
The rods merely serve to focus their attention and display the ideomotor 
effect
as driven by dowser's reading of environmental cues. So, we want to remove 
or

obfuscate any cues of this nature (from burying the test sample).

Technically, the entire chain from rods to person, etc. should be tested
separately, but that may be implausible. I don't agr

Re: [meteorite-list] Stop thieves! Meteorite marauders of Norway!

[Darren Garrison]

On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 10:53:24 +0200, you wrote:

>And the first time such a meteorite has fallen since 1937. And, it is 
>the first time that more than two meteorite pieces have been found from 
>a meteorite fall in norwegian history. This means that there are 
>hundreds of pieces that will not be found. The meteorite is a holy 

This part jumped out at me-- he aknowledges that "hundreds of pieces" will not
be found.  So which would be better-- to have lots of people with incentives for
doing so out searching for those meteorites, giving SOME chance that they will
someday find their way to the hands of researchers, or leave them to remain
unfound-- but at least they are staying in Norway?  

At the risk of invoking Godwin's Law, I REALLY start to get creeped out when
someone starts to talk about someone being required to turn over something from
their private property "for the good of the state" (as the writer in the
Norweigan blog seems to be doing).  As much as I care about the science, I'd
rather see the loss to science than see the loss of personal liberties and
property rights.  If a meteorite falls on my land, I expect to be able to keep
it, donate it to science, sell it to shifty foreigners, or grind it up and make
finger paint for chimpanzees with it.
__
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

[meteorite-list] Stop thieves! The meteorite marauders of Norway.

[Michael Mazur]

Today the University of Oslo published the following article on their website.http://wo.uio.no/as/WebObjects/avis.woa/wa/visArtikkel?id=30585&del=uniforum
Nice pictures of the rock but I felt that the commentary was a bit over the top so I've translated it for your reading pleasure. It looks like there is a steep road to climb for meteorite hunters and collectors in Norway. There aren't many of us but I'd like to think that we're not thieves who don't care about science as is implied by the article. If you disagree with Elen's proposal, maybe a gentle note explaining how you think meteorite collectors and dealers can and do help science would be a good idea. Not that I suggested it of course.
Enjoy.Be aware that I may have missed a few norwegian words but I think that I got it right for the most part.___


Private meteorite hunters have come to
Norway to find and sell pieces of the meteorite that fell down over
Østfold on July 14th to international collectors.
Director of the Natural History Museum (University of Oslo) seeks a
precise law in order to stop 'meteorite theives'.
By Yngve Vogt

International meteorite hunters have
been tempted by the summer's rare meteorite fall in Østfold.
They hunt after pieces of the meteorite and can earn 10,000's of
Kroner (>1,500USD) by selling to the highest bidder. Today, there
are no legal regulations that can prevent this.To this day, three pieces of the
Østfold meteorite have been found. International buyers stand
in queue. This afternoon, the highest offer was 150,000 Kroner
(~25,000USD) for a piece that came down in a yard while the family
was on vacation.- This a very high amount for the
Natural History, says director of the Natural History Museum, Elen
Roaldset. She seeks, therefore, a precise law that will make it so
that pieces of meteorites will not be sold to private collectors, but
will be owned by the state and will be useful to research.- There is big commercial interest in
meteorites. In the Moss area there are rumours that meteorite hunters
have come from near and far. Several meteorite hunters have already
come from America and Germany. As long as there are no laws, it is
very tempting for them to sell meteorite material to the highest
bidders and to international collectors. Then the meteorites
disappear out of the country. This means that one can not do
groundbreaking scientific research. It is via meteorites that we have
the possibility to gather knowledge about the formation of the earth
and the solar system, points out Elen Roaldset.

The meteorite that fell over Østfold
on the 14th of July of this year is the 14th
meteorite that has fallen in Norway since the Natural History Museum
started registering (falls). The meteorite in Østfold,
according to Knut Jørgen Røed Ødegaard, very
rare and the fifth meteorite of its type. The last time that a
comparable meteorite fell, was in Russia in 1937.


Each time a new meteorite is found, the
meteorite must be registered and approved by an international
commission.

Wishes clear rulesThe problem with private meteorite
hunters happened already when the 78.67kg Finnmarken meteorite fell
over Alta in 1902. Then many collectors appeared and sold pieces of
the meteorite to other lands. Then geology professor W.C. Brøgger,
who later became the university's rector, wrote already about the
need for a meteorite law in 1903.Elen Roaldset seeks now norwegian
regulations that will be just as strict as those around the finds of
old cultural treasures.

- A law is needed that takes care of
fossils and the type of object that fell over Moss, and that can
(protect) the scientific interests of mankind. This law ought to be
comparable to the cultural properties law that takes care of viking
treasures, says Elen Roaldset.She points out that todays laws are
imprecise. The problem is the commercial value that causes problems
between finders, property owners, and the state.- What
happens if a valuable object falls down on private property? Does the
mountain (presumably mining) law or the property law apply?







Danish meteorite lawDenmark has solved the legal problem by
introducing a law that meteorite finds are property of the state.
Also Canada has introduced a comparable law (not strictly true of
course).The danish bill secures the most
important natural history finds for the danish public.The danish museum law says that objects
shall be turned over to the state when they are found in Denmark
after January 1990. If the state wishes to keep one of these objects,
the finder or owner of the object will get a reward. The size of the
reward is dependent on the scientific or display value and how good
care the collector has taken care of the object.

Hearing statementThe Natural History Museum sent in
August of last year a 'hearing statement' to the environment
department about the draft of the new law about nature, landscape,
and biological diversity, also called t

Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! and go test it yourself!

[Mark Ford]

If you are going to bury an iron then be sure to bury it in two sealed
ziplock plastic bags, that way it won't harm it at all. I did this when
I was testing a new magnetometer system, I designed earlier in the year,
the Iron I buried is still rust free.

Mark F





CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: 

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not 
the intended recipient, please notify us. Email i...@ssl.gb.com. You should not 
copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their 
contents to any other person. 

GENERAL STATEMENT:

Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications 
carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and 
for other lawful purposes.

Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. 
Company No 1800317


__
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over alarge iron)

[Michael Bross]

Dear Chris...

And how do you explain "scientifically proven..." that you are
living, breathing... and interacting on this forum ?

Come on... read the late article on Newton by New York Times.
I am sure alchemy is on your list with astrology and so on.

Try to stay humble, especially if you are on an observatory !

There are too many charlatans unfortunately... that's also why
someone like Newton was doing his alchemical researches in
a kind of secrecy, to avoid comments like yours.

Darren recently put a link to one of my previous post on the list,
I invite you to read it again.

Btw, I am a certified Engineer in Agronomy, with 5 years studies
on chemicals, biology etc... and many, many years of practicing.

It just happened... that my scholarly certitudes... were brutally
confronted with the empiric knowledge in so called underdeveloped
countries when I was in my late 20s, in Africa, Asia, South America...

You would be surprised to ear, that the major and world known
Agronomical Research Center in France (INRA) called a "healer"
to fix telluric forces which made their horses get nuts on their way
to their pasture, about 20 years ago. It did work, to the pleasure
of the researching team and the horses... :)

But this is just "old grandma" recipes... no ?
BTW, the "magical"... lets say, unknown to the scientists, power
of the "chicken", actually "hen" soup has been proven.

Doesn't that make you/us humble, we "scientists"... ???

There is a main stream science... and another one...

And I definitely like the recent quote from Einstein, that I discovered with
infinite pleasure...

Enjoy ! Cheers !
Michael B.



--
From: "Chris Peterson" 
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 9:44 PM
To: 
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over
alarge iron)


Actually, new ideas that are RIGHT have generally been accepted fairly
quickly. It is a myth of the pseudoscientist that so many great minds have
been considered wrong or crazy, and that the establishment has usually
been wrong. It is entirely appropriate that new ideas be viewed with some
skepticism before they are accepted, however.

In fact, it is science that tells us very clearly that divining rods do
not work. This is something that has been put to the test, and failed that
test. Nobody can actually demonstrate that they work any better than
random chance. Only a fool would ignore that reality in favor of quotes
(some of dubious origin).

Divining rods, homeopathy, astrology... all these things are firmly in the
same category.

Chris

*
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


- Original Message ----- 
From: "Meteorites USA" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over
a large iron)


Chris, I fully support the eviction of superstition from the human mind.
BUT... Non believers and naysayers of radical ideas are typically,
historically, and statistically, often wrong!

People said the Wright brothers couldn't fly. But they did.
People said you would die if you went faster than a few tens of MPH.
They were wrong.
People disbelieved DaVinci's inventions. But modern science proved many
to be possible.
People said it wasn't possible to fly to the Moon. Be we did.
People slammed Tesla, and persecuted him and his free wireless
electricity. Yet today we know induction charging and energy
transmission over distance is real.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -
Thomas Edison

"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're
right." - Henry Ford

"Don't take counsel of your fears or naysayers." - General Colin Powell

"...The scientific man does not aim at an immediate result. He does not
expect that his advanced ideas will be readily taken up. His work is
like that of the planter — for the future. His duty is to lay the
foundation for those who are to come, and point the way. He lives and
labors and hopes" Nikola Tesla

Thomas Jefferson, with such a great mind on politics and human
advancement still had problems and could be considered a naysayer when
he said.

"I would more easily believe that a Yankee professor would lie than that
stones would fall from heaven." - Thomas Jefferson

Closedmindedness is the enemy of progress.

Regards,
Eric


__
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




__
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

[meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over a large iron)

[JoshuaTreeMuseum]

OK, here's what I'm going to do.  I'm going to take Michael Murray up on his 
original proposition that started this crazy thread. I'm going to make some 
divining rods like Warren's dad made. Then I'll bury a 10 kilo Odessa 
meteorite a foot underground. I will then see if it shorts out the Earth's 
magnetic field enough to affect the electro-chemical reactions in my brain 
producing a muscular twitching resulting in the crossing of the magical 
rods. I will have 3 other people try it that don't know where the meteorite 
is buried for a sort of triple blind experiment. I will disguise the hole so 
they can't see it. I'll report back the results. This groundbreaking 
experiment will settle this silly argument once and for all. (Notice how I 
brought the thread back to the subject of meteorites!)


Phil Whitmer

---

Hi Chris & list,

While I agree with you , I must do so with a small grain of salt.

I nearly quoted your previous email statement to my father regarding 
divining rods .


He smiled at me, went inside and brought out 2 coat hangers. He cut them and 
produced two straightened pieces of wire. He then bent them both the same 
way, nearly at a 90 degree angle with one end longer than the other. He then 
held the short ends, one in each and hand, loosely out in front of him. He 
walked across the lawn over a buried water pipe and the two wires went from 
pointing forward to crossing each other. They crossed exactly when he walked 
over the pipe and then uncrossed when he was past it.


I didn't believe any of it, so he handed them to me. Like a fool ( I felt 
like one, holding two pieces of wire walking around), I took them and 
repeated what he had done. Damned if they didn't cross exactly the same way. 
I could back up slowly and they would move slowly at the same time, crossing 
when over the pipe.


I took this situation to school. A professor listened and proposed we try 
some tests. All in all our conclusion was that you can call it bunk, but 
if you were thirsty, you could find water pipes easily.


I have not found much REAL data on the subject. My own theories about why 
the wire worked wouldn't jive with sticks or plastics While I didn't 
believe in it scientifically I can honestly say, if I were dying of thirst 
and had to find water underground in a pipe(lol) you'd find me with some 
coat hangers and a glass.


Warren Sansoucie
IMCA #3174
St. Louis MO

__
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over alarge iron)

[Mark Ford]

Hi Mike,

No need top apologise, I don't think discussing ways of finding
meteorites is off topic (on a meteorite forum), even if that means
discussing some of the more controversial methods. Even though I don't
personally think it works (yes I have tried it) I certainly think it was
still well worth a discuss.

I guess we go back to bickering and advertising giveaways now..

M.




-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
Michael Murray
Sent: 14 October 2010 21:14
To: Chris Peterson
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods
over alarge iron)

Hi Chris, List
I for one, certainly appreciate your opinions.  I have a great deal of  
respect for your knowledge and abilities.  I'm glad you're willing to  
share the things you do with the List.  I would miss it if you  
didn't.  If I haven't thanked you before for the things you share, I  
will now.  Thank you.  And I mean that sincerely.

List, hopefully we have reviewed at least my original post about the  
use of the rods all we need to.  I have had someone contact me who did  
not elaborate but their wish was for me to "stop please".  I presume  
they are wanting fewer emails.  I intend to respect that wish at least  
on this topic.  I don't know exactly where the thread is off to now.   
Because I don't think some of what I see now being brought up actually  
pertains to my first post exactly.  I believe I will have to  
relinquish responsibility for the thread at this juncture.  I will  
apologize now for any headaches the number of emails to this point has  
caused anyone.  However I must admit, I have enjoyed the discussion  
immensely.

Thanks all,

Mike in CO

On Oct 14, 2010, at 1:44 PM, Chris Peterson wrote:

> Actually, new ideas that are RIGHT have generally been accepted  
> fairly quickly. It is a myth of the pseudoscientist that so many  
> great minds have been considered wrong or crazy, and that the  
> establishment has usually been wrong. It is entirely appropriate  
> that new ideas be viewed with some skepticism before they are  
> accepted, however.
>
> In fact, it is science that tells us very clearly that divining rods  
> do not work. This is something that has been put to the test, and  
> failed that test. Nobody can actually demonstrate that they work any  
> better than random chance. Only a fool would ignore that reality in  
> favor of quotes (some of dubious origin).
>
> Divining rods, homeopathy, astrology... all these things are firmly  
> in the same category.
>
> Chris
>
> *
> Chris L Peterson
> Cloudbait Observatory
> http://www.cloudbait.com
>
>
> - Original Message - From: "Meteorites USA"
 >
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 1:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining  
> rods over a large iron)
>
>
> Chris, I fully support the eviction of superstition from the human  
> mind.
> BUT... Non believers and naysayers of radical ideas are typically,
> historically, and statistically, often wrong!
>
> People said the Wright brothers couldn't fly. But they did.
> People said you would die if you went faster than a few tens of MPH.
> They were wrong.
> People disbelieved DaVinci's inventions. But modern science proved  
> many
> to be possible.
> People said it wasn't possible to fly to the Moon. Be we did.
> People slammed Tesla, and persecuted him and his free wireless
> electricity. Yet today we know induction charging and energy
> transmission over distance is real.
>
> "I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -
> Thomas Edison
>
> "If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're
> right." - Henry Ford
>
> "Don't take counsel of your fears or naysayers." - General Colin  
> Powell
>
> "...The scientific man does not aim at an immediate result. He does  
> not
> expect that his advanced ideas will be readily taken up. His work is
> like that of the planter - for the future. His duty is to lay the
> foundation for those who are to come, and point the way. He lives and
> labors and hopes" Nikola Tesla
>
> Thomas Jefferson, with such a great mind on politics and human
> advancement still had problems and could be considered a naysayer when
> he said.
>
> "I would more easily believe that a Yankee professor would lie than  
> that
> stones would fall from heaven." - Thomas Jefferson
>
> Closedmindedness is the enemy of progress.
>
> Regards,
> Eri

Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over alarge iron)

[mlangen]

OUCH!
mlan...@execpc.com

- Original Message - 
From: "Darren Garrison" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over 
alarge iron)




So-- his name is essentially "Warren Peace"?


__
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over a large iron)

[Meteorites USA]

Chris, I fully support the eviction of superstition from the human mind. 
BUT... Non believers and naysayers of radical ideas are typically, 
historically, and statistically, often wrong!


People said the Wright brothers couldn't fly. But they did.
People said you would die if you went faster than a few tens of MPH. 
They were wrong.
People disbelieved DaVinci's inventions. But modern science proved many 
to be possible.

People said it wasn't possible to fly to the Moon. Be we did.
People slammed Tesla, and persecuted him and his free wireless 
electricity. Yet today we know induction charging and energy 
transmission over distance is real.


"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." - 
Thomas Edison


"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're 
right." - Henry Ford


"Don't take counsel of your fears or naysayers." - General Colin Powell

"...The scientific man does not aim at an immediate result. He does not 
expect that his advanced ideas will be readily taken up. His work is 
like that of the planter — for the future. His duty is to lay the 
foundation for those who are to come, and point the way. He lives and 
labors and hopes" Nikola Tesla


Thomas Jefferson, with such a great mind on politics and human 
advancement still had problems and could be considered a naysayer when 
he said.


"I would more easily believe that a Yankee professor would lie than that 
stones would fall from heaven." - Thomas Jefferson


Closedmindedness is the enemy of progress.

Regards,
Eric


On 10/14/2010 12:04 PM, Chris Peterson wrote:
No, I'm sure he believed it. People read horoscopes all the time, as 
well. That doesn't mean they work. People fool themselves into 
believing all sorts of crazy stuff. The fact that our brain finds 
patterns where none exist is the source of superstition!


Chris

*
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


- Original Message - From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" 


To: 
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 12:48 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Try divining rods over a large iron


Years ago, an employee of the local utility company told me his 
foreman always kept a pair of dowsing rods in his tool truck. He said 
he didn't know how or why they worked, and didn't care, they were 
just practical to use. At the time I thought he was b'sing me.


Phil Whitmer


__
Visit the Archives at 
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html

Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


__
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over a large iron)

[Chris Peterson]

Actually, new ideas that are RIGHT have generally been accepted fairly 
quickly. It is a myth of the pseudoscientist that so many great minds have 
been considered wrong or crazy, and that the establishment has usually been 
wrong. It is entirely appropriate that new ideas be viewed with some 
skepticism before they are accepted, however.


In fact, it is science that tells us very clearly that divining rods do not 
work. This is something that has been put to the test, and failed that test. 
Nobody can actually demonstrate that they work any better than random 
chance. Only a fool would ignore that reality in favor of quotes (some of 
dubious origin).


Divining rods, homeopathy, astrology... all these things are firmly in the 
same category.


Chris

*
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


- Original Message - 
From: "Meteorites USA" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over a 
large iron)



Chris, I fully support the eviction of superstition from the human mind.
BUT... Non believers and naysayers of radical ideas are typically,
historically, and statistically, often wrong!

People said the Wright brothers couldn't fly. But they did.
People said you would die if you went faster than a few tens of MPH.
They were wrong.
People disbelieved DaVinci's inventions. But modern science proved many
to be possible.
People said it wasn't possible to fly to the Moon. Be we did.
People slammed Tesla, and persecuted him and his free wireless
electricity. Yet today we know induction charging and energy
transmission over distance is real.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -
Thomas Edison

"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're
right." - Henry Ford

"Don't take counsel of your fears or naysayers." - General Colin Powell

"...The scientific man does not aim at an immediate result. He does not
expect that his advanced ideas will be readily taken up. His work is
like that of the planter — for the future. His duty is to lay the
foundation for those who are to come, and point the way. He lives and
labors and hopes" Nikola Tesla

Thomas Jefferson, with such a great mind on politics and human
advancement still had problems and could be considered a naysayer when
he said.

"I would more easily believe that a Yankee professor would lie than that
stones would fall from heaven." - Thomas Jefferson

Closedmindedness is the enemy of progress.

Regards,
Eric


__
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over a large iron)

[Warren Sansoucie]

Hi Chris & list,

While I agree with you , I must do so with a small grain of salt.

I nearly quoted your previous email statement to my father regarding divining 
rods .

He smiled at me, went inside and brought out 2 coat hangers. He cut them and 
produced two straightened pieces of wire. He then bent them both the same way, 
nearly at a 90 degree angle with one end longer than the other. He then held 
the short ends, one in each and hand, loosely out in front of him. He walked 
across the lawn over a buried water pipe and the two wires went from pointing 
forward to crossing each other. They crossed exactly when he walked over the 
pipe and then uncrossed when he was past it.

I didn't believe any of it, so he handed them to me. Like a fool ( I felt like 
one, holding two pieces of wire walking around), I took them and repeated what 
he had done. Damned if they didn't cross exactly the same way. I could back up 
slowly and they would move slowly at the same time, crossing when over the pipe.

I took this situation to school. A professor listened and proposed we try some 
tests. All in all our conclusion was that you can call it bunk, but if you 
were thirsty, you could find water pipes easily. 

I have not found much REAL data on the subject. My own theories about why the 
wire worked wouldn't jive with sticks or plastics While I didn't believe in 
it scientifically I can honestly say, if I were dying of thirst and had to find 
water underground in a pipe(lol) you'd find me with some coat hangers and a 
glass.

Warren Sansoucie
IMCA #3174
St. Louis MO

> From: c...@alumni.caltech.edu
> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 13:44:53 -0600
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over a 
> large iron)
> 
> Actually, new ideas that are RIGHT have generally been accepted fairly 
> quickly. It is a myth of the pseudoscientist that so many great minds have 
> been considered wrong or crazy, and that the establishment has usually been 
> wrong. It is entirely appropriate that new ideas be viewed with some 
> skepticism before they are accepted, however.
> 
> In fact, it is science that tells us very clearly that divining rods do not 
> work. This is something that has been put to the test, and failed that test. 
> Nobody can actually demonstrate that they work any better than random 
> chance. Only a fool would ignore that reality in favor of quotes (some of 
> dubious origin).
> 
> Divining rods, homeopathy, astrology... all these things are firmly in the 
> same category.
> 
> Chris
> 
> *
> Chris L Peterson
> Cloudbait Observatory
> http://www.cloudbait.com
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message - 
> From: "Meteorites USA" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 1:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over a 
> large iron)
> 
> 
> Chris, I fully support the eviction of superstition from the human mind.
> BUT... Non believers and naysayers of radical ideas are typically,
> historically, and statistically, often wrong!
> 
> People said the Wright brothers couldn't fly. But they did.
> People said you would die if you went faster than a few tens of MPH.
> They were wrong.
> People disbelieved DaVinci's inventions. But modern science proved many
> to be possible.
> People said it wasn't possible to fly to the Moon. Be we did.
> People slammed Tesla, and persecuted him and his free wireless
> electricity. Yet today we know induction charging and energy
> transmission over distance is real.
> 
> "I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -
> Thomas Edison
> 
> "If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're
> right." - Henry Ford
> 
> "Don't take counsel of your fears or naysayers." - General Colin Powell
> 
> "...The scientific man does not aim at an immediate result. He does not
> expect that his advanced ideas will be readily taken up. His work is
> like that of the planter — for the future. His duty is to lay the
> foundation for those who are to come, and point the way. He lives and
> labors and hopes" Nikola Tesla
> 
> Thomas Jefferson, with such a great mind on politics and human
> advancement still had problems and could be considered a naysayer when
> he said.
> 
> "I would more easily believe that a Yankee professor would lie than that
> stones would fall from heaven." - Thomas Jefferson
> 
> Closedmindedness is the enemy of progress.
> 
> Regards,
> Eric
> 
> 
> __
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://

Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over a large iron)

[Chris Peterson]

Ouija boards work the same way. But hey... if your dad can really do this, I 
don't know why he isn't out claiming Randi's prize money. It should be easy 
pickings.


My own conclusion is that the method works great for finding water pipes 
when you already know where they are.


Chris

*
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


- Original Message - 
From: "Warren Sansoucie" 

To: ; 
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 2:53 PM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over a 
large iron)




Hi Chris & list,

While I agree with you , I must do so with a small grain of salt.

I nearly quoted your previous email statement to my father regarding 
divining rods .


He smiled at me, went inside and brought out 2 coat hangers. He cut them and 
produced two straightened pieces of wire. He then bent them both the same 
way, nearly at a 90 degree angle with one end longer than the other. He then 
held the short ends, one in each and hand, loosely out in front of him. He 
walked across the lawn over a buried water pipe and the two wires went from 
pointing forward to crossing each other. They crossed exactly when he walked 
over the pipe and then uncrossed when he was past it.


I didn't believe any of it, so he handed them to me. Like a fool ( I felt 
like one, holding two pieces of wire walking around), I took them and 
repeated what he had done. Damned if they didn't cross exactly the same way. 
I could back up slowly and they would move slowly at the same time, crossing 
when over the pipe.


I took this situation to school. A professor listened and proposed we try 
some tests. All in all our conclusion was that you can call it bunk, but 
if you were thirsty, you could find water pipes easily.


I have not found much REAL data on the subject. My own theories about why 
the wire worked wouldn't jive with sticks or plastics While I didn't 
believe in it scientifically I can honestly say, if I were dying of thirst 
and had to find water underground in a pipe(lol) you'd find me with some 
coat hangers and a glass.


Warren Sansoucie

__
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over a large iron)

[Meteorites USA]

Now see Chris, Your own issue is your reliance on the "accepted" for 
it's sake. ;)


Instead of reading the words and taking them at face value, you ignore 
the meaning and content of the quotes, and focus on and question the 
origin. ("dubious origin"?) Typical political BS... Deflection of 
meaning and attention by discrediting the source. That's elementary 
political strategy 101, nothing more than a weak attempt to shift the 
focus of the debate. What's more foolish? My quoting quotes of great 
inventors, or your ignoring of the meaning by attacking the source of 
the quote? Hmmm.


Frankly it doesn't matter "where" the quote comes from, nor does it 
matter "who" said it. What matters is the meaning behind the words. Yet 
you totally ignore that to try weakly at proving your own point by 
deflecting attention. Shame on you... Instead of understanding, you 
ignore it and call me a fool... ;) lol


If the institutionally correct method means we rely "only" on the 
empirically evidenced and accepted, without looking at everything with 
an open mind, maybe we should all give up now and burn all books and 
shut down the internet. Dark ages anyone...?


Your philosophy (on this) is the "fallacy of appeal to authority" you 
complained about last night. You are guilty of your own accusation of 
dependence on that accepted authority, which is the same thing.


You're forgetting the most basic tenet of science, even though you try 
to lean on it by saying "It is entirely appropriate that new ideas be 
viewed with some skepticism before they are accepted" but what you fail 
to realize is just because it's "NOT" accepted (yet) doesn't mean it's 
not possible. Of course doubt and skepticism is part of it, but people 
should not ignore the forest for the trees. It's not cliche because it's 
silly, it's cliche because it's true.


Free the mind of the individual and scientific advancement is natural.

People tend to stop trying if they listen to people who tell them it's 
unaccepted.


If people didn't try, we'd have nothing.

Regards,
Eric

P.S. I'm not referring to divining or dowsing. I'm referring to the 
philosophy of science, learning and knowledge in general.






On 10/14/2010 12:44 PM, Chris Peterson wrote:
Actually, new ideas that are RIGHT have generally been accepted fairly 
quickly. It is a myth of the pseudoscientist that so many great minds 
have been considered wrong or crazy, and that the establishment has 
usually been wrong. It is entirely appropriate that new ideas be 
viewed with some skepticism before they are accepted, however.


In fact, it is science that tells us very clearly that divining rods 
do not work. This is something that has been put to the test, and 
failed that test. Nobody can actually demonstrate that they work any 
better than random chance. Only a fool would ignore that reality in 
favor of quotes (some of dubious origin).


Divining rods, homeopathy, astrology... all these things are firmly in 
the same category.


Chris

*
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


- Original Message - From: "Meteorites USA" 


To: 
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods 
over a large iron)



Chris, I fully support the eviction of superstition from the human mind.
BUT... Non believers and naysayers of radical ideas are typically,
historically, and statistically, often wrong!

People said the Wright brothers couldn't fly. But they did.
People said you would die if you went faster than a few tens of MPH.
They were wrong.
People disbelieved DaVinci's inventions. But modern science proved many
to be possible.
People said it wasn't possible to fly to the Moon. Be we did.
People slammed Tesla, and persecuted him and his free wireless
electricity. Yet today we know induction charging and energy
transmission over distance is real.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -
Thomas Edison

"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're
right." - Henry Ford

"Don't take counsel of your fears or naysayers." - General Colin Powell

"...The scientific man does not aim at an immediate result. He does not
expect that his advanced ideas will be readily taken up. His work is
like that of the planter — for the future. His duty is to lay the
foundation for those who are to come, and point the way. He lives and
labors and hopes" Nikola Tesla

Thomas Jefferson, with such a great mind on politics and human
advancement still had problems and could be considered a naysayer when
he said.

"I would more easily believe that a Yankee professor would lie than t

Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over a large iron)

[Carl 's]

Hi All,
 
Nuts! I can't believe all this talk about divining rods lately. So, I made 
myself a pair from wire clothes hanger, following Warren's instructions  and 
went out to my side yard. My front and back yard are compeltely cemented over. 
I made it out about 3 feet and the rods crossed over. WTH!! I doubled back and 
they crossed over at the same spot! I walked over the entire yard and came back 
at the same spot. Yep, they crossed over! I can't wait till my sons come home 
so they repeat this experiment. 
 
Carl2
 
 
 
Warren wrote:
 
>While I agree with you , I must do so with a small grain of salt.
I nearly quoted your previous email statement to my father regarding divining
rods .
He smiled at me, went inside and brought out 2 coat hangers. He cut them and
produced two straightened pieces of wire. He then bent them both the same way,
nearly at a 90 degree angle with one end longer than the other. He then held
the short ends, one in each and hand, loosely out in front of him. He walked
across the lawn over a buried water pipe and the two wires went from pointing
forward to crossing each other. They crossed exactly when he walked over the
pipe and then uncrossed when he was past it.
I didn't believe any of it, so he handed them to me. Like a fool ( I felt like
one, holding two pieces of wire walking around), I took them and repeated what
he had done. Damned if they didn't cross exactly the same way. I could back up
slowly and they would move slowly at the same time, crossing when over the pipe.
I took this situation to school. A professor listened and proposed we try some
tests. All in all 
__
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over a large iron)

[Darren Garrison]

On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 15:14:05 -0700, you wrote:

>So, I made myself a pair from wire clothes hanger, 
>following Warren's instructions  and went out to my 
>side yard. My front and back yard are compeltely cemented 
>over. I made it out about 3 feet and the rods crossed over. 
>WTH!! I doubled back and they crossed over at the same spot! 
>I walked over the entire yard and came back at the same 
>spot. Yep, they crossed over! I can't wait till my sons 
>come home so they repeat this experiment. 

To have a truly objective test, I'd propose the construction of some sort of rig
that holds rods (which are precisely straight and bent to exactly 90 degrees)
exactactly perpendicular to the surface, then moved at a slow, steady, speed in
a precisely level track.  Some sort of powered, rolling device with good shock
absorbers, or something machine-guided across level, tight wires.  In other
words, a setup that precludes any twitches, movements out of level, changes in
accelration, or any other subconcious factors that would cause a low-friction
system to move and can't be eliminated by a human holding it.  A "real"
experiment attempts to eliminate all variables execpt for the one variable being
tested for-- in this case, testing for movement caused by buried objects and NOT
by movement on the part of the person (or machine) holding the rods.
__
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over a large iron)

[Richard Montgomery]

Einstein was talking about the missing variable in all of our equations, 
even ones that he devised and later confounded him.  It is the bread of our 
queries.  Imagine not questioning our assupmtions.


I'm not even commenting on dousing here.  This is worthy of a new topic, but 
here I am commenting within this thread.


How many of us here are willing to acknowledge that everything we know now 
isn't finite?  If we reject concepts as unquestionable, the world is still 
flat, stones don't fall from the sky, and we know everything already.


Richard Montgomery



- Original Message - 
From: "Meteorites USA" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over a 
large iron)



Chris, I fully support the eviction of superstition from the human mind.
BUT... Non believers and naysayers of radical ideas are typically,
historically, and statistically, often wrong!

People said the Wright brothers couldn't fly. But they did.
People said you would die if you went faster than a few tens of MPH.
They were wrong.
People disbelieved DaVinci's inventions. But modern science proved many
to be possible.
People said it wasn't possible to fly to the Moon. Be we did.
People slammed Tesla, and persecuted him and his free wireless
electricity. Yet today we know induction charging and energy
transmission over distance is real.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -
Thomas Edison

"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're
right." - Henry Ford

"Don't take counsel of your fears or naysayers." - General Colin Powell

"...The scientific man does not aim at an immediate result. He does not
expect that his advanced ideas will be readily taken up. His work is
like that of the planter — for the future. His duty is to lay the
foundation for those who are to come, and point the way. He lives and
labors and hopes" Nikola Tesla

Thomas Jefferson, with such a great mind on politics and human
advancement still had problems and could be considered a naysayer when
he said.

"I would more easily believe that a Yankee professor would lie than that
stones would fall from heaven." - Thomas Jefferson

Closedmindedness is the enemy of progress.

Regards,
Eric


On 10/14/2010 12:04 PM, Chris Peterson wrote:
No, I'm sure he believed it. People read horoscopes all the time, as well. 
That doesn't mean they work. People fool themselves into believing all 
sorts of crazy stuff. The fact that our brain finds patterns where none 
exist is the source of superstition!


Chris

*
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


- Original Message - From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" 


To: 
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 12:48 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Try divining rods over a large iron


Years ago, an employee of the local utility company told me his foreman 
always kept a pair of dowsing rods in his tool truck. He said he didn't 
know how or why they worked, and didn't care, they were just practical to 
use. At the time I thought he was b'sing me.


Phil Whitmer


__
Visit the Archives at 
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html

Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


__
Visit the Archives at 
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html

Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 


__
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over a large iron)

[Meteorites USA]

Hi Darren, I'd like to say first off that I don't subscribe to dowsing.

I do like your logic. But, what IF one of the variables you eliminate 
has a direct negative effect on the conclusion?


Also, I like your testing method. Though maybe a plastic rail might work 
better than metal wire, and there is some flex over a span of distance 
in the wire which could cause unwanted movement. Also, aren't wires 
metal? Wouldn't that variable effect the results of finding metal with 
the dowsing rods?


I know this is kind of silly, but, if we're to find an iron meteorite 
with dowsing rods, I would think the entire experiment area needs to be 
metal-sterile. Or am I wrong?


Eric


On 10/14/2010 3:32 PM, Darren Garrison wrote:

On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 15:14:05 -0700, you wrote:

   

So, I made myself a pair from wire clothes hanger,
following Warren's instructions  and went out to my
side yard. My front and back yard are compeltely cemented
over. I made it out about 3 feet and the rods crossed over.
WTH!! I doubled back and they crossed over at the same spot!
I walked over the entire yard and came back at the same
spot. Yep, they crossed over! I can't wait till my sons
come home so they repeat this experiment.
 

To have a truly objective test, I'd propose the construction of some sort of rig
that holds rods (which are precisely straight and bent to exactly 90 degrees)
exactactly perpendicular to the surface, then moved at a slow, steady, speed in
a precisely level track.  Some sort of powered, rolling device with good shock
absorbers, or something machine-guided across level, tight wires.  In other
words, a setup that precludes any twitches, movements out of level, changes in
accelration, or any other subconcious factors that would cause a low-friction
system to move and can't be eliminated by a human holding it.  A "real"
experiment attempts to eliminate all variables execpt for the one variable being
tested for-- in this case, testing for movement caused by buried objects and NOT
by movement on the part of the person (or machine) holding the rods.
__
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

   

__
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over a large iron)

[Michael Murray]

Hi Chris, List
I for one, certainly appreciate your opinions.  I have a great deal of  
respect for your knowledge and abilities.  I'm glad you're willing to  
share the things you do with the List.  I would miss it if you  
didn't.  If I haven't thanked you before for the things you share, I  
will now.  Thank you.  And I mean that sincerely.


List, hopefully we have reviewed at least my original post about the  
use of the rods all we need to.  I have had someone contact me who did  
not elaborate but their wish was for me to "stop please".  I presume  
they are wanting fewer emails.  I intend to respect that wish at least  
on this topic.  I don't know exactly where the thread is off to now.   
Because I don't think some of what I see now being brought up actually  
pertains to my first post exactly.  I believe I will have to  
relinquish responsibility for the thread at this juncture.  I will  
apologize now for any headaches the number of emails to this point has  
caused anyone.  However I must admit, I have enjoyed the discussion  
immensely.


Thanks all,

Mike in CO

On Oct 14, 2010, at 1:44 PM, Chris Peterson wrote:

Actually, new ideas that are RIGHT have generally been accepted  
fairly quickly. It is a myth of the pseudoscientist that so many  
great minds have been considered wrong or crazy, and that the  
establishment has usually been wrong. It is entirely appropriate  
that new ideas be viewed with some skepticism before they are  
accepted, however.


In fact, it is science that tells us very clearly that divining rods  
do not work. This is something that has been put to the test, and  
failed that test. Nobody can actually demonstrate that they work any  
better than random chance. Only a fool would ignore that reality in  
favor of quotes (some of dubious origin).


Divining rods, homeopathy, astrology... all these things are firmly  
in the same category.


Chris

*
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


- Original Message - From: "Meteorites USA" >

To: 
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining  
rods over a large iron)



Chris, I fully support the eviction of superstition from the human  
mind.

BUT... Non believers and naysayers of radical ideas are typically,
historically, and statistically, often wrong!

People said the Wright brothers couldn't fly. But they did.
People said you would die if you went faster than a few tens of MPH.
They were wrong.
People disbelieved DaVinci's inventions. But modern science proved  
many

to be possible.
People said it wasn't possible to fly to the Moon. Be we did.
People slammed Tesla, and persecuted him and his free wireless
electricity. Yet today we know induction charging and energy
transmission over distance is real.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -
Thomas Edison

"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're
right." - Henry Ford

"Don't take counsel of your fears or naysayers." - General Colin  
Powell


"...The scientific man does not aim at an immediate result. He does  
not

expect that his advanced ideas will be readily taken up. His work is
like that of the planter — for the future. His duty is to lay the
foundation for those who are to come, and point the way. He lives and
labors and hopes" Nikola Tesla

Thomas Jefferson, with such a great mind on politics and human
advancement still had problems and could be considered a naysayer when
he said.

"I would more easily believe that a Yankee professor would lie than  
that

stones would fall from heaven." - Thomas Jefferson

Closedmindedness is the enemy of progress.

Regards,
Eric


__
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


__
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over a large iron)

[Warren Sansoucie]

Here we go again with bitching about OT everything is always off topic when 
I comment on it.
 
The topic was diving rods to find meteorites ...correct???  So my input on an 
experience with them is considered off topic???
 
 
How about this I drop this bitch fest lame list out of my email and then I 
wont have to read threads full of people complaining about OT all the time.
 
Some folks on here should really go out more and live a little, then they 
wouldn't be so grumpy.
 
Since this email is technically OFF TOPIC, I'll end it now.
 
It's been nice talking to SOME of you.
 
Warren Sansoucie
IMCA #3174
St. Louis MO


> From: joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com
> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 17:43:27 -0400
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over a 
> large iron)
>
> OK, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to take Michael Murray up on his
> original proposition that started this crazy thread. I'm going to make some
> divining rods like Warren's dad made. Then I'll bury a 10 kilo Odessa
> meteorite a foot underground. I will then see if it shorts out the Earth's
> magnetic field enough to affect the electro-chemical reactions in my brain
> producing a muscular twitching resulting in the crossing of the magical
> rods. I will have 3 other people try it that don't know where the meteorite
> is buried for a sort of triple blind experiment. I will disguise the hole so
> they can't see it. I'll report back the results. This groundbreaking
> experiment will settle this silly argument once and for all. (Notice how I
> brought the thread back to the subject of meteorites!)
>
> Phil Whitmer
>
> ---
>
> Hi Chris & list,
>
> While I agree with you , I must do so with a small grain of salt.
>
> I nearly quoted your previous email statement to my father regarding
> divining rods .
>
> He smiled at me, went inside and brought out 2 coat hangers. He cut them and
> produced two straightened pieces of wire. He then bent them both the same
> way, nearly at a 90 degree angle with one end longer than the other. He then
> held the short ends, one in each and hand, loosely out in front of him. He
> walked across the lawn over a buried water pipe and the two wires went from
> pointing forward to crossing each other. They crossed exactly when he walked
> over the pipe and then uncrossed when he was past it.
>
> I didn't believe any of it, so he handed them to me. Like a fool ( I felt
> like one, holding two pieces of wire walking around), I took them and
> repeated what he had done. Damned if they didn't cross exactly the same way.
> I could back up slowly and they would move slowly at the same time, crossing
> when over the pipe.
>
> I took this situation to school. A professor listened and proposed we try
> some tests. All in all our conclusion was that you can call it bunk, but
> if you were thirsty, you could find water pipes easily.
>
> I have not found much REAL data on the subject. My own theories about why
> the wire worked wouldn't jive with sticks or plastics While I didn't
> believe in it scientifically I can honestly say, if I were dying of thirst
> and had to find water underground in a pipe(lol) you'd find me with some
> coat hangers and a glass.
>
> Warren Sansoucie
> IMCA #3174
> St. Louis MO
>
> __
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list   
>   
__
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over a large iron)

[Sterling K. Webb]

Warren,

Are you aware that your name ("sans souci")
means "no worries" or "carefree," cheerful and
unbothered by the trivia of life, one who lives
in a buoyant and untroubled manner?


Sterling K. Webb
-
- Original Message - 
From: "Warren Sansoucie" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods 
over a large iron)






Here we go again with bitching about OT everything is always off 
topic when I comment on it.


The topic was diving rods to find meteorites ...correct???  So my 
input on an experience with them is considered off topic???



How about this I drop this bitch fest lame list out of my email 
and then I wont have to read threads full of people complaining about 
OT all the time.


Some folks on here should really go out more and live a little, then 
they wouldn't be so grumpy.


Since this email is technically OFF TOPIC, I'll end it now.

It's been nice talking to SOME of you.

Warren Sansoucie
IMCA #3174
St. Louis MO



From: joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 17:43:27 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods 
over a large iron)


OK, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to take Michael Murray up 
on his
original proposition that started this crazy thread. I'm going to 
make some

divining rods like Warren's dad made. Then I'll bury a 10 kilo Odessa
meteorite a foot underground. I will then see if it shorts out the 
Earth's
magnetic field enough to affect the electro-chemical reactions in my 
brain
producing a muscular twitching resulting in the crossing of the 
magical
rods. I will have 3 other people try it that don't know where the 
meteorite
is buried for a sort of triple blind experiment. I will disguise the 
hole so

they can't see it. I'll report back the results. This groundbreaking
experiment will settle this silly argument once and for all. (Notice 
how I

brought the thread back to the subject of meteorites!)

Phil Whitmer

---

Hi Chris & list,

While I agree with you , I must do so with a small grain of salt.

I nearly quoted your previous email statement to my father regarding
divining rods .

He smiled at me, went inside and brought out 2 coat hangers. He cut 
them and
produced two straightened pieces of wire. He then bent them both the 
same
way, nearly at a 90 degree angle with one end longer than the other. 
He then
held the short ends, one in each and hand, loosely out in front of 
him. He
walked across the lawn over a buried water pipe and the two wires 
went from
pointing forward to crossing each other. They crossed exactly when he 
walked

over the pipe and then uncrossed when he was past it.

I didn't believe any of it, so he handed them to me. Like a fool ( I 
felt

like one, holding two pieces of wire walking around), I took them and
repeated what he had done. Damned if they didn't cross exactly the 
same way.
I could back up slowly and they would move slowly at the same time, 
crossing

when over the pipe.

I took this situation to school. A professor listened and proposed we 
try
some tests. All in all our conclusion was that you can call it 
bunk, but

if you were thirsty, you could find water pipes easily.

I have not found much REAL data on the subject. My own theories about 
why
the wire worked wouldn't jive with sticks or plastics While I 
didn't
believe in it scientifically I can honestly say, if I were dying of 
thirst
and had to find water underground in a pipe(lol) you'd find me with 
some

coat hangers and a glass.

Warren Sansoucie
IMCA #3174
St. Louis MO

__
Visit the Archives at 
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html

Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

__
Visit the Archives at 
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html

Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 


__
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Re: [meteorite-list] Stop Naysaying! (Was: Try divining rods over a large iron)

[Darren Garrison]

On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 16:06:53 -0500, you wrote:

>Are you aware that your name ("sans souci")
>means "no worries" or "carefree," cheerful and
>unbothered by the trivia of life, one who lives
>in a buoyant and untroubled manner?

So-- his name is essentially "Warren Peace"?
__
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list