[meteorite-list] The Moon Is 40 Million Years Older Than Thought, Lunar Rock Samples Suggest
The Moon Is 40 Million Years Older Than Thought, Lunar Rock Samples Suggest By Will Sullivan, Smithsonian Magazine, October 23, 2023 https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/the-moon-is-40-million-years-older-than-thought-lunar-rock-samples-suggest-180983117/ Scientists believe moon is 40 million years older than first thought By Simon Druker, UPI, October 23, 2023 https://www.upi.com/Science_News/2023/10/23/moon-40m-years-older-lunar-surface-cyrstals/4101698072068/ The Moon is 40 million years older than previously thought ScienceDaily, Northwestern University, October 23, 2023 https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/10/231023124332.htm The open access paper is: Greer, J., Zhang, B., Isheim, D., Seidman, D.N., Bouvier, A., and Heck, P.R., 2023. 4.46 Ga zircons anchor chronology of lunar magma ocean Geochemical Perspectives Letters v27, Published 23 October 2023 https://doi.org/10.7185/geochemlet.2334 https://www.geochemicalperspectivesletters.org/article2334/ Yours, Paul H. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist2.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mars moon got its grooves from rolling stones, study suggests
November 20, 2018 http://news.brown.edu/articles/2018/11/phobos My favorite part: The simulations showed that boulders hit that lip and take a flying leap over the dead spot, before coming down again on the other side. “It’s like a ski jump,” Ramsley said. “The boulders keep going but suddenly there’s no ground under them. They end up doing this suborbital flight over this zone.” Regards, Thomas Kurtz __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Soviet Moon Rocks For sale
Real Moon Rocks Go Up For Auction in New York, Expected to Fetch Nearly $1 Million, Matt Novak, Paleofuture https://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/real-moon-rocks-go-up-for-auction-in-new-york-expected-1830092539 The article stated: "Next month Sotheby's in New York will auction off some of the only moon rocks that can be legally owned by private individuals." As we all know, this is not correct. Lunar meteorites, which are also pieces of the Moon are legal to buy and sell freely. They are still pricey. :-( Yours, Paul H. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] ANOTHER MOON FORMATION THEORY
List, "Moon was made from spinning cloud of vaporised rock, say scientists:" http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/moon-how-made-origin-vaporised-roc k-cloud-astrophysics-science-harvard-a8233006.html?utm_source=quora Sterling K. Webb __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD : Moon lot
Hello List Members, Up for sale, a 145g lunar indivs. Off list for pricing and photographs. Best regards Aziz __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] GRAIL Moon Mission Shares Insights into Giant Impacts
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=6662 NASA Moon Mission Shares Insights into Giant Impacts Jet Propulsion Laboratory October 27, 2016 Fast Facts: * Orientale basin is a giant, ringed impact crater on Earth's moon. * Until now, how impact craters with rings form had not been well understood. * Scientists have reconstructed Orientale's formation using data from NASA's GRAIL mission. New results from NASA's Gravity Recovery and Interior Laboratory (GRAIL) mission are providing insights into the huge impacts that dominated the early history of Earth's moon and other solid worlds, like Earth, Mars, and the satellites of the outer solar system. In two papers, published this week in the journal Science, researchers examine the origins of the moon's giant Orientale impact basin. The research helps clarify how the formation of Orientale, approximately 3.8 billion years ago, affected the moon's geology. Located along the moon's southwestern limb -- the left-hand edge as seen from Earth -- Orientale is the largest and best-preserved example of what's known as a "multi-ring basin." Impact craters larger than about 180 miles (300 kilometers) in diameter are referred to as basins. With increasing size, craters tend to have increasingly complex structures, often with multiple concentric, raised rings. Orientale is about 580 miles (930 kilometers) wide and has three distinct rings, which form a bullseye-like pattern. Multi-ring basins are observed on many of the rocky and icy worlds in our solar system, but until now scientists had not been able to agree on how their rings form. What they needed was more information about the crater's structure beneath the surface, which is precisely the sort of information contained in gravity science data collected during the GRAIL mission. The powerful impacts that created basins like Orientale played an important role in the early geologic history of our moon. They were extremely disruptive, world-altering events that caused substantial fracturing, melting and shaking of the young moon's crust. They also blasted out material that fell back to the surface, coating older features that were already there; scientists use this layering of ejected material to help determine the age of lunar features as they work to unravel the moon's complex history. The Importance of Orientale Because scientists realized that Orientale could be quite useful in understanding giant impacts, they gave special importance to observing its structure near the end of the GRAIL mission. The orbit of the mission's two probes was lowered so they passed less than 1.2 miles (2 kilometers) above the crater's mountainous rings. "No other planetary exploration mission has made gravity science observations this close to the moon. You could have waved to the twin spacecraft as they flew overhead if you stood at the ring's edge," said Sami Asmar, GRAIL project scientist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, California. Of particular interest to researchers has been the size of the initial crater that formed during the Orientale impact. With smaller impacts, the initial crater is left behind, and many characteristics of the event can be inferred from the crater's size. Various past studies have suggested each of Orientale's three rings might be the remnant of the initial crater. In the first of the two new studies, scientists teased out the size of the transient crater from GRAIL's gravity field data. Their analysis shows that the initial crater was somewhere between the size of the basin's two innermost rings. "We've been able to show that none of the rings in Orientale basin represent the initial, transient crater," said GRAIL Principal Investigator Maria Zuber of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge, lead author of the first paper. "Instead, it appears that, in large impacts like the one that formed Orientale, the surface violently rebounds, obliterating signs of the initial impact." The analysis also shows that the impact excavated at least 816,000 cubic miles (3.4 million cubic kilometers) of material -- 153 times the combined volume of the Great Lakes. "Orientale has been an enigma since the first gravity observations of the moon, decades ago," said Greg Neumann, a co-author of the paper at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland. "We are now able to resolve the individual crustal components of the bullseye gravity signature and correlate them with computer simulations of the formation of Orientale." Reproducing the Rings The second study describes how scientists successfully simulated the formation of Orientale to reproduce the crater's structure as observed by GRAIL. These simulations show, for the first time, how the rings of Orientale formed, which is likely similar for multi-ring basins in general. "Because our models show how the subsurface structure is formed, matching what
Re: [meteorite-list] Annual Moon Impacts More Frequent Then Previously Estimated
Hi Kelly, Always appreciate your posts to the list! Thank you for sharing this resource. --AL Mitterling Quoting "Beatty, Kelly via Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>: hi, Paul... it's an interesting revelation that demonstrates the power of LRO's camera. but some of the write-ups are not getting it right (e.g. the New Scientist story claims "A new count of the moon?s craters has turned up 33 per cent more than predicted." sheesh!) if you want some context, including interviews with specialists beyond the press release, I recommend my S colleague Camille Carlisle's write-up here: https://is.gd/LxmxoZ clear skies, Kelly ** J. Kelly Beatty Senior Editor, Sky & Telescope F+W, A Content and eCommerce Company Sky & Telescope.com 617-864-7360 x22168 @NightSkyGuy -Original Message- From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Paul via Meteorite-list Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 9:29 PM To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Annual Moon Impacts More Frequent Then Previously Estimated The moon has hundreds more craters than we thought Daily News, October 12, 2016 https://www.newscientist.com/article/2108929-the-moon-has-hundreds-more-craters-than-we-thought/ How old is our Moon? Hundreds of previously unseen craters could finally unlock its true age: New estimates suggest 180 craters of at least ten metres in diameter form each year by Liat Clark, Wired, A facelift for the Moon every 81,000 years, October 12, 2016 http://phys.org/news/2016-10-facelift-moon-years.html http://phys.org/news/2016-10-reveals-lunar-surface-features-younger.html The paper is: Speyerer, E. J., R. Z. Povilaitis, M. S. Robinson, P. C. Thomas, And R. V. Wagner, 2016, Quantifying crater production and regolith overturn on the Moon with temporal imaging. Nature. Vol. 538, pp. 215?218 (13 October 2016) doi:10.1038/nature19829 http://nature.com/articles/doi:10.1038/nature19829 Yours, Paul H. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Annual Moon Impacts More Frequent Then Previously Estimated
hi, Paul... it's an interesting revelation that demonstrates the power of LRO's camera. but some of the write-ups are not getting it right (e.g. the New Scientist story claims "A new count of the moon’s craters has turned up 33 per cent more than predicted." sheesh!) if you want some context, including interviews with specialists beyond the press release, I recommend my S colleague Camille Carlisle's write-up here: https://is.gd/LxmxoZ clear skies, Kelly ** J. Kelly Beatty Senior Editor, Sky & Telescope F+W, A Content and eCommerce Company Sky & Telescope.com 617-864-7360 x22168 @NightSkyGuy -Original Message- From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Paul via Meteorite-list Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 9:29 PM To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Annual Moon Impacts More Frequent Then Previously Estimated The moon has hundreds more craters than we thought Daily News, October 12, 2016 https://www.newscientist.com/article/2108929-the-moon-has-hundreds-more-craters-than-we-thought/ How old is our Moon? Hundreds of previously unseen craters could finally unlock its true age: New estimates suggest 180 craters of at least ten metres in diameter form each year by Liat Clark, Wired, A facelift for the Moon every 81,000 years, October 12, 2016 http://phys.org/news/2016-10-facelift-moon-years.html http://phys.org/news/2016-10-reveals-lunar-surface-features-younger.html The paper is: Speyerer, E. J., R. Z. Povilaitis, M. S. Robinson, P. C. Thomas, And R. V. Wagner, 2016, Quantifying crater production and regolith overturn on the Moon with temporal imaging. Nature. Vol. 538, pp. 215–218 (13 October 2016) doi:10.1038/nature19829 http://nature.com/articles/doi:10.1038/nature19829 Yours, Paul H. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Annual Moon Impacts More Frequent Then Previously Estimated
The moon has hundreds more craters than we thought Daily News, October 12, 2016 https://www.newscientist.com/article/2108929-the-moon-has-hundreds-more-craters-than-we-thought/ How old is our Moon? Hundreds of previously unseen craters could finally unlock its true age: New estimates suggest 180 craters of at least ten metres in diameter form each year by Liat Clark, Wired, A facelift for the Moon every 81,000 years, October 12, 2016 http://phys.org/news/2016-10-facelift-moon-years.html http://phys.org/news/2016-10-reveals-lunar-surface-features-younger.html The paper is: Speyerer, E. J., R. Z. Povilaitis, M. S. Robinson, P. C. Thomas, And R. V. Wagner, 2016, Quantifying crater production and regolith overturn on the Moon with temporal imaging. Nature. Vol. 538, pp. 215–218 (13 October 2016) doi:10.1038/nature19829 http://nature.com/articles/doi:10.1038/nature19829 Yours, Paul H. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mars' Moon Phobos is Slowly Falling Apart
http://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/phobos-is-falling-apart Mars' Moon Phobos is Slowly Falling Apart November 10, 2015 The long, shallow grooves lining the surface of Phobos are likely early signs of the structural failure that will ultimately destroy this moon of Mars. Orbiting a mere 3,700 miles (6,000 kilometers) above the surface of Mars, Phobos is closer to its planet than any other moon in the solar system. Mars' gravity is drawing in Phobos, the larger of its two moons, by about 6.6 feet (2 meters) every hundred years. Scientists expect the moon to be pulled apart in 30 to 50 million years. [Image] New modeling indicates that the grooves on Mars' moon Phobos could be produced by tidal forces - the mutual gravitational pull of the planet and the moon. Initially, scientists had thought the grooves were created by the massive impact that made Stickney crater (lower right). Credits: NASA/JPL-Caltech/University of Arizona "We think that Phobos has already started to fail, and the first sign of this failure is the production of these grooves," said Terry Hurford of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland. The findings by Hurford and his colleagues are being presented Nov. 10, 2015, at the annual Meeting of the Division of Planetary Sciences of the American Astronomical Society at National Harbor, Maryland. Phobos' grooves were long thought to be fractures caused by the impact that formed Stickney crater. That collision was so powerful, it came close to shattering Phobos. However, scientists eventually determined that the grooves don't radiate outward from the crater itself but from a focal point nearby. More recently, researchers have proposed that the grooves may instead be produced by many smaller impacts of material ejected from Mars. But new modeling by Hurford and colleagues supports the view that the grooves are more like "stretch marks" that occur when Phobos gets deformed by tidal forces. The gravitational pull between Mars and Phobos produces these tidal forces. Earth and our moon pull on each other in the same way, producing tides in the oceans and making both planet and moon slightly egg-shaped rather than perfectly round. The same explanation was proposed for the grooves decades ago, after the Viking spacecraft sent images of Phobos to Earth. At the time, however, Phobos was thought to be more-or-less solid all the way through. When the tidal forces were calculated, the stresses were too weak to fracture a solid moon of that size. The recent thinking, however, is that the interior of Phobos could be a rubble pile, barely holding together, surrounded by a layer of powdery regolith about 330 feet (100 meters) thick. "The funny thing about the result is that it shows Phobos has a kind of mildly cohesive outer fabric," said Erik Asphaug of the School of Earth and Space Exploration at Arizona State University in Tempe and a co-investigator on the study. "This makes sense when you think about powdery materials in microgravity, but it's quite non-intuitive." An interior like this can distort easily because it has very little strength and forces the outer layer to readjust. The researchers think the outer layer of Phobos behaves elastically and builds stress, but it's weak enough that these stresses can cause it to fail. All of this means the tidal forces acting on Phobos can produce more than enough stress to fracture the surface. Stress fractures predicted by this model line up very well with the grooves seen in images of Phobos. This explanation also fits with the observation that some grooves are younger than others, which would be the case if the process that creates them is ongoing. The same fate may await Neptune's moon Triton, which is also slowly falling inward and has a similarly fractured surface. The work also has implications for extrasolar planets, according to researchers. "We can't image those distant planets to see what's going on, but this work can help us understand those systems, because any kind of planet falling into its host star could get torn apart in the same way," said Hurford. Elizabeth Zubritsky NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Dating Moon-Forming Impact With Meteorites
Dating the moon-forming impact event with meteorites University of Arizona, Scinece Daily, April 16, 2015 http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150416145543.htm SwRI-led team studies meteorites from asteroids to date Moon-forming impact. Debris from the Moon- forming impact blasted main belt asteroids long ago, but left behind traces of what happened. Southwest Research Institute, San Antonio, April 16, 2015 http://www.swri.org/9what/releases/2015/moon-forming-impact.htm http://www.swri.org/press/2015/moon-forming-impact.htm The paper is: Bottke, W. F., D. Vokrouhlicky, S. Marchi, T. Swindle, E. R. D. Scott, J. R. Weirich, and H. Levison, 2015, Dating the Moon-forming impact event with asteroidal meteorites. Science. vol. 348, no. 6232, pp. 321-323 http://www.sciencemag.org/content/348/6232/321 Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] China's Moon Rover Awake But Immobile
http://www.nature.com/news/china-s-moon-rover-awake-but-immobile-1.14906 China's Moon rover awake but immobile Yutu rover resumes taking data but is still hampered by mechanical failure. Alexandra Witze Nature Magazine 19 March 2014 China's Moon rover Yutu, or Jade Rabbit, has stopped hopping. But its ears are still twitching - and communicating with Earth. Last week Yutu and its companion spacecraft, the Chang'e 3 Moon lander, awoke from a period of dormancy after the frigid, two-week lunar night - the third awakening since landing on 14 December, Chinese scientists said this week at the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference in The Woodlands, Texas. The probes continue to gather data and send it back to Earth. But Yutu may never move more than the 100-110 metres it has already travelled from its landing site - in the Mare Imbrium. Mission officials had hoped that Yutu would travel to the rim of a nearby crater and explore it, but a mechanical failure in Yutu's drive system has stilled the rover since late January. The rover has already used its ground-penetrating radar to probe the structure of the lunar soil more than 100 metres deep. Those data are still being processed, but Le Qiao, a planetary scientist at the China University of Geosciences in Wuhan, is anxious to see whether the results confirm the thickness of basaltic rocks at the landing site. Using satellite images of craters that expose the underlying layer, Qiao's team estimates that the basaltic rocks are 41-46 metres thick at the landing site. Early results from the rover's alpha-particle X-ray spectrometer also hint at the chemical composition of the landing site. A presentation led by scientists at the Institute of High Energy Physics in Beijing showed that the instrument analysed the chemical makeup of lunar soil at two locations. It spotted expected major chemical elements such as magnesium, aluminium, silicon, potassium and calcium. Much of the purpose of having a rover is lost, though, if Yutu can no longer gather data from different areas. Scientists were hoping to see more of the Chinese lunar data at the conference, says Alexander Basilevsky, a lunar geologist at the Vernadsky Institute of Geochemistry and Analytical Chemistry in Moscow. 'They should have something by now, he says. Basilevsky is comparing the geology of Yutu's landing site to a site about 500 kilometres away, where the Soviet Lunokhod-1 rover travelled in 1970. Comparing the two could show how widespread different rock types are in the region, he says. Even if Yutu never moves again, it and the Chang'e 3 lander will keep taking data. And Chinese officials have already talked about Chang'e 4, a mission similar to Chang'e 3 that will launch to a different part of the Moon next year. Nature doi:10.1038/nature.2014.14906 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Finland Moon-Bright Bolide 10MAR2014
List, Finland Moon-Bright Bolide 10MAR2014 http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.jp/2014/03/breaking-news-finland-bolide-10mar2014.html Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] China's Moon Rover Has A Mechanical Control Anomaly
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2014-01/25/c_133072966.htm China's moon rover monitored with abnormity English.news.cn January 25, 2014 BEIJING, Jan. 25 (Xinhua) -- China's moon rover Yutu (Jade Rabbit) has had a mechanical control abnormity, and scientists are organizing an overhaul. The abnormity occurred due to the complicated lunar surface environment, the State Administration of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defence (SASTIND) said on Saturday, without giving further details. The abnormity emerged before the rover went into its second dormancy at dawn on Saturday as the lunar night fell again, according to the SASTIND. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Chinese Moon Lander and Rover Wake Up After Weeks of Sleep
http://www.nbcnews.com/science/chinese-moon-lander-rover-wake-after-weeks-sleep-2D11909188 Chinese moon lander and rover wake up after weeks of sleep Alan Boyle NBC News January 12, 2014 The Xinhua news agency said the six-wheeled Yutu rover - which was named after a Jade Rabbit in Chinese mythology - was the first to wake up, on Saturday. The Chang'e 3 lander, named after the moon goddess who kept Yutu by her side, followed on Sunday. Both spacecraft draw most of their power from solar arrays, which means they must conserve power when their landing site in the Bay of Rainbows, or Sinus Iridum, goes into darkness. They're equipped with plutonium-powered backup batteries to keep the electronics warm amid overnight temperatures that go as low as 292 degrees below zero Fahrenheit (-180 degrees Celsius). During the lunar night, the lander and the rover were in a power-off condition, and the communication with Earth was also cut off, Zhou Jianliang, chief engineer of the Beijing Aerospace Control Center, said in a report from Xinhua. Chang'e 3 landed on Dec. 14 and rolled out a ramp to deliver Yutu to the surface for an initial round of reconnoitering - and then both spacecraft went into hibernation on Dec. 25-26. From now on, the spacecraft are expected to split their time into roughly two-week rounds of waking and sleeping. Chang'e 3 is the first mission to operate on the surface of the moon since 1976, when the Soviets' Luna 24 robotic spacecraft gathered up samples of moon dirt and sent them back to Earth. The rover is due to operate for at least three months - collecting and analyzing lunar samples, and mapping the subsurface with ground-penetrating radar. The lander is built to make astronomical observations for at least a year, drawing upon optical telescope gear and an extreme ultraviolet camera. Both spacecraft are equipped with cameras and sent an initial round of snapshots back to Earth before their hibernation. China is already making plans for a 2017 mission that would bring samples back from the moon. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] China's Moon Rover Has Activated Its Science Tools
http://spaceindustrynews.com/chinas-moon-rover-has-activated-its-science-tools-imaging-experiments-have-begun/4128/ China's Moon rover has activated its science tools. Imaging experiments have begun. Space Industry News December 20, 2013 Six out of the eight pieces of scientific equipment deployed to the moon with the Chang'e-3 lunar mission have been activated by scientists and are functioning properly, according to those working on the mission. Speaking at a news conference on Tuesday, scientists said the Yutu lunar rover and the Chang'e-3 lander have functioned as planned. Su Yan, deputy designer of the Chang'e-3 ground applications system stated that, Except for the alpha particle X-ray spectrometer and the visible and near-infrared imaging spectrometer, the instruments have all been activated and are undergoing tests and adjustments, Zhang He, deputy designer of the probe, said that all the equipment on the moon is in perfect condition, and optical and ultraviolet-imaging experiments are under way. Scientists with the ground applications system are expecting to receive a gigantic quantity of original data from the rover and lander. Each with their own independent channels to send signals, Su said. Wu Weiren, chief designer of China's lunar probe program said, We made more than 200 plans to respond to any possible emergencies, and they cover each step of the mission, he said. I am proud that we havent needed to use them so far. China became the third nation in the world, after the United States and the former Soviet Union, to soft-land a probe on the moon when the Chang'e-3 rover successfully set down. The 140-kilogram, six-wheeled Yutu rover separated from the lander and touched the lunar surface early on Sunday, leaving deep tracks in the loose soil. The mission is the second phase of Chinas current moon exploration program, which includes orbiting, landing and returning to Earth. It follows the success of the Chang'e-1 and Chang'e-2 missions in 2007 and 2010. Wu commented on China's plans on a future Mars mission for China. We follow our own approach that respects stable progress and dislikes rash and reckless moves, he said. We don't want to compete with any country in this regard. Moreover, the final decision is up to the government. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Chinese Moon Lander on the Verge of Launch
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/china/change3/131127change3/ Chinese moon lander on the verge of launch BY STEPHEN CLARK SPACEFLIGHT NOW November 27, 2013 China has scheduled the launch of an ambitious robotic lunar rover as soon as Sunday on a quest to achieve the first soft landing on the moon in more than three decades. The Chang'e 3 mission is China's third moon probe, following two successful orbiters that surveyed the lunar surface and mapped landing zones. Chinese officials say the mission is set for launch in early December, with landing on the moon scheduled for mid-December. China has not officially disclosed the mission's launch or landing dates. But an aeronautical notice issued to warn pilots of an impending launch indicates the solar-powered rover is set for liftoff Sunday shortly after 1720 GMT (12:20 p.m. EST) from the Xichang space center in southwestern China's Sichuan province. The launch will come in the middle of the night in China at approximately 1:20 a.m. Beijing time. A Long March 3B rocket will boost the probe on course toward the moon, where the spacecraft will enter orbit five days after launch before dropping to the lunar surface for landing some time in mid-December, according to Wu Zhijian, a spokesperson for China's State Administration of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defence, or SASTIND, which is managing the Chang'e 3 mission. The mission is China's first try to land a spacecraft on the moon - or any other celestial body - and it marks a new phase in the country's exploration efforts, which include a lunar sample return mission before the end of the decade. The lander reportedly weighs about 3,800 kilograms, or about 8,377 pounds, fully loaded with propellant. It's dimensions measure a bit larger than a sports utility vehicle. The Chang'e 3 lander will descend from lunar orbit and use rocket engines to settle softly on the moon's surface in a region known as the Bay of Rainbows, or Sinus Iridum, on the upper-left part of the moon as viewed from Earth. The Bay of Rainbows has never been explored by a moon lander before. The Chang'e 2 mission, China's second lunar orbiter, mapped the Bay of Rainbows in detail after its launch in October 2010. Once the four-legged lander touches down, the mission's rover will drive onto the lunar surface on a ramp. The rover has six wheels and has a mass of about 140 kilograms, or about 308 pounds, according to Xinhua. It is powered by solar energy but carries radioisotope heater units to keep the rover warm on cold lunar nights, according to a paper written by researchers at the Beijing Institute of Spacecraft System Engineering and published in Science China. Chinese officials announced Tuesday the rover is named Yutu after a campaign to solicit naming suggestions from the public. Yutu was the most popular submission, and it means jade rabbit in Chinese, Xinhua reported. The Chang'e lunar program is named after the Chinese goddess of the moon, and Yutu the rabbit is her companion in Chinese mythology. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Giant Moon-Forming Impact On Early Earth May Have Spawned Magma Ocean
http://www.space.com/23514-moon-crash-earth-magma-ocean.html Giant Moon-Forming Impact On Early Earth May Have Spawned Magma Ocean by Katia Moskvitch space.com November 8, 2013 LONDON - Billions of years ago, the Earth's atmosphere was opaque and the planet's surface was a vast magma ocean devoid of life. This scenario, says Stanford University professor of geophysics Norman Sleep, was what the early Earth looked like just after a cataclysmic impact by a planet-size object that smashed into the infant Earth 4.5 billion years ago and formed the moon. The moon, once fully formed, which would have appeared much larger in the sky at the time, since it was closer to Earth Hundreds of millions of years later, he added, the first forms of life appeared, possibly having hitched a ride on a rock from Mars. The scenario is one presented by Sleep at a recent Royal Society conference here called Origin of the Moon. A paper detailing Sleep's study was submitted to the symposium volume. Although many elements of the theory have been around for some time, Sleep's synthesis is like putting together a jigsaw puzzle with some pieces already known and some that are speculative and have new aspects, said Dave Stevenson, a Caltech professor of planetary science who was not involved with Sleep's study. One of these new aspects is how Earth cooled down to the temperatures necessary for life to evolve, following the - presumed - giant impact that formed the moon. The processes Sleep discussed took place in the period called Hadean, about 4 billion to 4.5 billion years ago - before the first organisms came into being, and well before more complex life-forms, including dinosaurs, started roaming the Earth. Back then, the Earth was nothing like the blue Earth we know today. Scorching world Instead, the entire Earth was hot and molten all the way to its inner core, a mixture of molten rock and liquid. No life would have been able to survive these brutally high temperatures, which reached 2,000degrees Celsius (more than 3,600 degrees Fahrenheit). Liquid water had no chance to form. The Earth's atmosphere at this time was also much heavier. Its mass was similar to that of today's oceans, and it pushed down on Earth's surface with a pressure of hundreds of bars. (For comparison, the average pressure at the Earth's surface today is 1 bar). It was also opaque - you would not have been able to see much, just clouds covering everything, Stevenson said. Beneath the clouds, a magma ocean swayed, with partially molten rock pushed around by tides, Sleep thinks. These tides were due to the mutual attraction of the Earth and the moon, and were much stronger than those in today's watery oceans, as the moon was sitting much, much closer to the Earth back then. The tides constantly stirred the ocean, causing the mantle to lose heat, similar to stirring and blowing on a bowl of soup. But once released from the Earth's depths, the heat was trapped at the surface, held back by the thick, opaque primordial atmosphere. The heat could only escape the planet (and cool it down) at so-called cloud-top temperature levels - where it would be as cold as on a modern high mountain summit. But for the first 10 million years, the temperatures were much, much higher, Sleep said. The energy loss caused by the mutual attraction of the Earth and the moon was also making the moon gradually pull away. This made the tides progressively weaker, so the molten rock was being stirred less and less, and the Earth's mantle began to solidify in stages. While at the top of the Earth there was still partially molten slurry with a bit of liquid left, in the middle there was a mushy layer, but the deep mantle was becoming solid, Sleep said. Lava was probably still coming up and erupting and freezing at the top, and then falling back in large, kilometer-size pieces that were sinking into the Earth. Slowly, the internal heat flow ceased to dominate the climate, and the temperatures at the surface began to drop, with the heat being able to escape the atmosphere at last. Life from Mars? The sweltering temperatures and trapped heat were not the only obstacles for life to appear, Sleep said. Another issue was overabundance of carbon dioxide in the primordial atmosphere. Carbon dioxide doesn't dissolve in molten rock, so it was bound to bubble up from the magma ocean, creating a so-called runaway greenhouse effect, Sleep said. For the Earth to become habitable, most of this carbon dioxide had to vanish. Sleep said this happened when the tectonic plates began to move in the late Hadean, some 4.4 billion years ago. With the plates moving, the carbon dioxide began to enter the mantle in a process called subduction, when one tectonic plate moves under another and sinks into the mantle. Liquid water oceans had already begun to condense around that time, and once the Earth cooled sufficiently and most of the
[meteorite-list] Apollo Moon Rocks On eBay
I don't get it. They sent a SWAT team into a Denny's to bum rush this little old lady for attemping to sell a moon rock weighing a few grains, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/24/joann-davis-nasa-sting_n_1028156.html when this guy is allowed to openly advertise and attempt to sell a rock brought back by the Apollo 11 mission? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Meteorite-/190783042224?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item2c6b8e32b0 Maybe because it's a total fake? A meteorite picked up on the moon by Apollo 11 astronauts, really? Either way, fraudulent misrepresentation, or attempted public sale of Apollo moon rocks, wouldn't this be against the law? Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon Rocks On eBay
During an unrelated call having to do with raising my sell $ limit to a measly $15k, I even pointed it it out to them and asked how this lunatic (pun intended) could post such an expensive item when I had to call in to get mine raised. No satisfactory answer was given but they would look into it. Mendy Ouzillou On Feb 2, 2013, at 9:59 AM, Joshua Tree Earth Space Museum dori...@embarqmail.com wrote: I don't get it. They sent a SWAT team into a Denny's to bum rush this little old lady for attemping to sell a moon rock weighing a few grains, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/24/joann-davis-nasa-sting_n_1028156.html when this guy is allowed to openly advertise and attempt to sell a rock brought back by the Apollo 11 mission? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Meteorite-/190783042224?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item2c6b8e32b0 Maybe because it's a total fake? A meteorite picked up on the moon by Apollo 11 astronauts, really? Either way, fraudulent misrepresentation, or attempted public sale of Apollo moon rocks, wouldn't this be against the law? Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Fake moon and mars meteorite NWA's
Hi Mike and list, As steelhorse1994 spaceterrain4sale, he used Lunar NWA 4881, Lunar NWA 4734 Martian NWA 4925. They were always packaged with the NWA lettered on the front and American Meteorite Collectors Society called out on the flip side. He used what I would call commonly seen moon or mars images on the front AND back side. Mike is right, some people don't want to think they were capable of being scammed and respond negatively to the messenger. Like myself, many of you were no doubt fascinated with space stuff as a kid, and still are, and he sold a lot of these fakes during the 2011 Holiday season. No doubt, there are a lot of little kids out there who don't have real lunar or martian rocks. This is the kind of thing that makes me really p**sed off and motivated me in this whole matter. He was clever, as they usually are, in that he built up a top seller rating on ebay, and still has it BTW! If you saw the recent episode of Pawn Stars, not all silver bars are pure inside. Those silver bars he is selling now may be filled with something not so precious. And, yes, we need to be on the lookout for those displays resurfacing from time to time. It is even possible he will repackage again, under a new ebay username. Since they are fake, he could just change the NWA's with a simple google search. Not to worry, Mike. Since I sell legitimate displays on and off ebay, I am ever vigilant on a weekly basis in observing any lunar or martian material being sold on ebay. I have to say Dr. Korotev was really accomodating, and for a person of his stature to help out, that was fantastic. He gets a lot of email from people with meteor-wrongs who think they have struck it rich, and he was probably intrigue when I wrote him with the bizarro version that I was convinced I had a fake... Best regards, Daniel Daniel Noyes i...@moonmarsrocks.com www.moonmarsrocks.com Original Message Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ebay victims of fake moon and mars meteorite scam From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com Date: Thu, June 07, 2012 10:56 am To: i...@moonmarsrocks.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Hi Daniel and List, I really feel bad for the buyers of these bogus planetaries. Things like this damage the integrity of the entire market. In the distant past, I used to contact sellers and buyers of questionable specimens, but I stopped doing it long ago. First, I hate being the bearer of ill tidings. Secondly, people like to shoot the messenger and more than once I received hostile responses. Now that Daniel mentions it, I do recall seeing those titles for lunar real estate for sale on eBay. I had no idea it was the same scammer who ended up selling the fake planetaries. The phrase buyer beware takes on all new meaning when shopping eBay. eBay is not going to bend over backwards to police their own marketplace because it's not in their financial best interests. They receive revenue in form of listing and final value fees for every item sold, regardless of whether it is genuine or not. And they are not going to willingly reduce their own revenue in the name of integrity. Integrity in the corporate world went out the window back in the 1980's and it hasn't been seen since. The only reason they have stricter controls in place for gemstones, precious metals, Tiffany items, etc, is because those collectibles have larger collector demographics which are very litigious. Under the threat of lawsuits, they have tightened their controls over certain collectibles and commodities. We will not see the same for meteorites because we are a small (by comparison) niche market. But, be careful what you wish for. If eBay were to enact tighter controls over meteorite listings, it could be a huge hassle for many legitimate sellers. Do we really want corporate stuffed-suits and bureaucrats sticking their noses into the meteorite market? That would be a double-edged sword and once that Pandora's box is opened, there is no closing it. Is that enough cliches in one paragraph for everyone? LOL. From an ethical standpoint, the best we can do is to mitigate the damage that has been done by this bogus planetary affair. We can put all of this out here on the record for all to see. All it takes is a simple Google search (or Bing) to reveal the truth. Also, we must try to remove these bogus specimens from the market as we encounter them. The danger here is that someone will remove the bogus specimens from their easily-identified containers and sell them in another form where they are less easily recognized. For the record (perhaps Daniel can help answer this), what NWA numbers are tainted by these bogus displays? Luckily, the scammer appears to have limited himself to certain NWA numbered Lunars and Martians. These numbers must be treated with extra scrutiny from now on, until these specimens are removed from the market. Again, kudos to Daniel for doing the sleuth-work and Dr. Korotev for donating his
Re: [meteorite-list] Fake moon and mars meteorite NWA's
Hi list I would like to thank everyone for this informative thread. I have not bought any lunar/martian meteorites for quite a few years now but as the owner of a decent collection of planetaries, bought from a small number reputable dealers whom you will all know well that i(we) trust implicitly, it's nice to be kept up to date on the frauds out there. I display my modest collection frequently and often loan them out to museums and i'm often asked the usual questions, how do i know they're real and can anyone buy them. My advice has always been to do you're homework thoroughly before taking any chances since you are paying a lot of money for not a lot of material. Following this thread, I now know to give explicit warnings to people and what to watch for. So many thanks Rob --- On Thu, 7/6/12, i...@moonmarsrocks.com i...@moonmarsrocks.com wrote: From: i...@moonmarsrocks.com i...@moonmarsrocks.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fake moon and mars meteorite NWA's To: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Thursday, 7 June, 2012, 20:07 Hi Mike and list, As steelhorse1994 spaceterrain4sale, he used Lunar NWA 4881, Lunar NWA 4734 Martian NWA 4925. They were always packaged with the NWA lettered on the front and American Meteorite Collectors Society called out on the flip side. He used what I would call commonly seen moon or mars images on the front AND back side. Mike is right, some people don't want to think they were capable of being scammed and respond negatively to the messenger. Like myself, many of you were no doubt fascinated with space stuff as a kid, and still are, and he sold a lot of these fakes during the 2011 Holiday season. No doubt, there are a lot of little kids out there who don't have real lunar or martian rocks. This is the kind of thing that makes me really p**sed off and motivated me in this whole matter. He was clever, as they usually are, in that he built up a top seller rating on ebay, and still has it BTW! If you saw the recent episode of Pawn Stars, not all silver bars are pure inside. Those silver bars he is selling now may be filled with something not so precious. And, yes, we need to be on the lookout for those displays resurfacing from time to time. It is even possible he will repackage again, under a new ebay username. Since they are fake, he could just change the NWA's with a simple google search. Not to worry, Mike. Since I sell legitimate displays on and off ebay, I am ever vigilant on a weekly basis in observing any lunar or martian material being sold on ebay. I have to say Dr. Korotev was really accomodating, and for a person of his stature to help out, that was fantastic. He gets a lot of email from people with meteor-wrongs who think they have struck it rich, and he was probably intrigue when I wrote him with the bizarro version that I was convinced I had a fake... Best regards, Daniel Daniel Noyes i...@moonmarsrocks.com www.moonmarsrocks.com Original Message Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ebay victims of fake moon and mars meteorite scam From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com Date: Thu, June 07, 2012 10:56 am To: i...@moonmarsrocks.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Hi Daniel and List, I really feel bad for the buyers of these bogus planetaries. Things like this damage the integrity of the entire market. In the distant past, I used to contact sellers and buyers of questionable specimens, but I stopped doing it long ago. First, I hate being the bearer of ill tidings. Secondly, people like to shoot the messenger and more than once I received hostile responses. Now that Daniel mentions it, I do recall seeing those titles for lunar real estate for sale on eBay. I had no idea it was the same scammer who ended up selling the fake planetaries. The phrase buyer beware takes on all new meaning when shopping eBay. eBay is not going to bend over backwards to police their own marketplace because it's not in their financial best interests. They receive revenue in form of listing and final value fees for every item sold, regardless of whether it is genuine or not. And they are not going to willingly reduce their own revenue in the name of integrity. Integrity in the corporate world went out the window back in the 1980's and it hasn't been seen since. The only reason they have stricter controls in place for gemstones, precious metals, Tiffany items, etc, is because those collectibles have larger collector demographics which are very litigious. Under the threat of lawsuits, they have tightened their controls over certain collectibles and commodities. We will not see the same for meteorites because we are a small (by comparison) niche market. But, be careful what you wish for. If eBay were to enact tighter controls over meteorite
Re: [meteorite-list] Fake moon and mars meteorite NWA's
Hi Rob, Thanks for your note. One of the problems with the steelhorse1994 fakes is the guy was for the most part targeting lower end gift shoppers by pricing auctions at a penny to start and ending up selling 25mg rocks in a nice display for an average of $17. When I did the statistics on his average sale price, I knew something was wrong. He couldn't have sold a 1000 displays and stayed in business with that kind of pricing. On a good day, the cost of just the meteorite sample that size exceeds $17. Then add in ebay fees, paypal fees, material costs, shipping costs, etc. It didn't add up, unless of course he was grabbing granite rocks from his backyard! The other side of this ripoff coin is this: I had a customer tell me recently that she and her son were at Knots Berry Farm last week where they saw genuine moon mars rock displays similar to the ones I sell, and they wanted $400 for the pair! She and her 8 year old were thrilled to find mine on ebay and a $350 difference. Your point on being careful about what and from whom you buy is well taken, especially at the collector level where bigger pieces and bigger prices are involved. But, the average Jane and Joe gift shoppers were perfect foils for this fraud, which is why we all have to be diligent about policing what we see around us on in our marketplace. Best regards, Daniel Daniel Noyes i...@moonmarsrocks.com www.moonmarsrocks.com Original Message Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fake moon and mars meteorite NWA's From: Rob McCafferty rob_mccaffe...@yahoo.com Date: Thu, June 07, 2012 3:20 pm To: i...@moonmarsrocks.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Hi list I would like to thank everyone for this informative thread. I have not bought any lunar/martian meteorites for quite a few years now but as the owner of a decent collection of planetaries, bought from a small number reputable dealers whom you will all know well that i(we) trust implicitly, it's nice to be kept up to date on the frauds out there. I display my modest collection frequently and often loan them out to museums and i'm often asked the usual questions, how do i know they're real and can anyone buy them. My advice has always been to do you're homework thoroughly before taking any chances since you are paying a lot of money for not a lot of material. Following this thread, I now know to give explicit warnings to people and what to watch for. So many thanks Rob __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Apollo moon rock buried in Dunsink Dump, Ireland
Apollo moon rock buried in Dunsink Dump in Finglas, Ireland http://www.dublinpeople.com/article.php?id=888l=100 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J0cIL3d2Xk Martin Postfach fast voll? Jetzt kostenlos E-Mail Adresse @t-online.de sichern und endlich Platz für tausende Mails haben. http://www.t-online.de/email-kostenlos __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] The Moon/ISS
Great photos of the ISS crossing the face of the Moon! It's a shame only a few of us still get a thrill about space, eh? Is it just me, or does the first pic look like the Nostromo coming into orbit around LV-426? ;) Cheers, Pete http://www.universetoday.com/92426/dazzling-photos-of-the-international-space-station-crossing-the-moon/ http://www.universetoday.com/92426/dazzling-photos-of-the-international-space-station-crossing-the-moon/ Dazzling Photos of the International Space Station Crossing the Moon! Has the International Space Station (ISS) secretly joined NASA’s newly arrived GRAIL lunar twins orbiting the Moon? No – but you might think so gazing at these dazzling new images of the Moon and the ISS snapped by a NASA photographer yesterday (Jan. 4) operating from the Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas. Check out this remarkable series of NASA photos above and below showing the ISS and her crew of six humans crossing the face of Earth’s Moon above the skies over Houston, Texas. And see my shot below of the Moon near Jupiter – in conjunction- taken just after the two GRAIL spacecraft achieved lunar orbit on New Year’s weekend. In the photo above, the ISS is visible at the upper left during the early evening of Jan. 4, and almost looks like it’s in orbit around the Moon. In fact the ISS is still circling about 248 miles (391 kilometers) above Earth with the multinational Expedition 30 crew of astronauts and cosmonauts hailing from the US, Russia and Holland. __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rare Moon Set Lunar Eclipse Vantage Point
Sounds like a dream of a night out in the desert. Nice photos Jonathan. Thanks for sharing the experience. Cheers and a merry Xmas from soggy England, Graham On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 1:41 AM, Jonathan Abel abelcomp...@cox.net wrote: List - Sentiments of the Season!! They showed my lunar eclipse photographs on the news last night...may I share them with you? http://www.flickr.com/photos/71927123@N06/6496021565/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/71927123@N06/6496025685/in/photostream I'm just an untrained, country photographer, but I try to show up when the skies are dealing out light shows. I'm so glad I witnessed the triple-interplay of a rising sun, a setting moon, and a total lunar eclipse. Quiet magic except for my camera shutter. I've never seen anything like it. Remember the last time that seeing something special happening in the sky really lifted your spirits? I danced around laughing in the desert between photos... I drove half the night to find the broadest cloudless, lightless horizon... Cheers! Jonathan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Rare Moon Set Lunar Eclipse Vantage Point
List - Sentiments of the Season!! They showed my lunar eclipse photographs on the news last night...may I share them with you? http://www.flickr.com/photos/71927123@N06/6496021565/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/71927123@N06/6496025685/in/photostream I'm just an untrained, country photographer, but I try to show up when the skies are dealing out light shows. I'm so glad I witnessed the triple-interplay of a rising sun, a setting moon, and a total lunar eclipse. Quiet magic except for my camera shutter. I've never seen anything like it. Remember the last time that seeing something special happening in the sky really lifted your spirits? I danced around laughing in the desert between photos... I drove half the night to find the broadest cloudless, lightless horizon... Cheers! Jonathan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NASA's Moon Twins Going Their Own Way (GRAIL)
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2011-314 NASA's Moon Twins Going Their Own Way Jet Propulsion Laboratory October 06, 2011 PASADENA, Calif. - NASA's Gravity Recovery And Interior Laboratory (GRAIL)-B spacecraft successfully executed its first flight path correction maneuver Wednesday, Oct. 5. The rocket burn helped refine the spacecraft's trajectory as it travels from Earth to the moon and provides separation between itself and its mirror twin, GRAIL-A. The first burn for GRAIL-A occurred on Sept. 30. Both spacecraft are alive and with these burns, prove that they're kicking too, as expected, said David Lehman, GRAIL project manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. There is a lot of time and space between now and lunar orbit insertion, but everything is looking good. GRAIL-B's rocket burn took place on Oct. 5 at 11 a.m. PDT (2 p.m. EDT). The spacecraft's main engine burned for 234 seconds and imparted a velocity change of 56.1 mph (25.1 meters per second) while expending 8.2 pounds (3.7 kilograms) of propellant. GRAIL-A's burn on Sept. 30 also took place at 11 a.m. PDT. It lasted 127 seconds and imparted a 31.3 mph (14 meters per second) velocity change on the spacecraft while expending 4 pounds (1.87 kilograms) of propellant. These burns are designed to begin distancing GRAIL-A and GRAIL-B's arrival times at the moon by approximately one day and to insert them onto the desired lunar approach paths. The straight-line distance from Earth to the moon is about 250,000 miles (402,336 kilometers). It took NASA's Apollo moon crews about three days to cover that distance. Each of the GRAIL twins is taking about 30 times that long and covering more than 2.5 million miles (4 million kilometers) to get there. This low-energy, high-cruise time trajectory is beneficial for mission planners and controllers, as it allows more time for spacecraft checkout. The path also provides a vital component of the spacecraft's single science instrument, the Ultra Stable Oscillator, to be continuously powered for several months, allowing it to reach a stable operating temperature long before beginning the collection of science measurements in lunar orbit. GRAIL-A will enter lunar orbit on New Year's Eve, and GRAIL-B will follow the next day. When science collection begins, the spacecraft will transmit radio signals precisely defining the distance between them as they orbit the moon. Regional gravitational differences on the moon are expected to expand and contract that distance. GRAIL scientists will use these accurate measurements to define the moon's gravity field. The data will allow mission scientists to understand what goes on below the surface of our natural satellite. NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., manages the GRAIL mission. The Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, is home to the mission's principal investigator, Maria Zuber. The GRAIL mission is part of the Discovery Program managed at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver, built the spacecraft. Launch management for the mission is the responsibility of NASA's Launch Services Program at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida. JPL is a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. More information about GRAIL is online at: http://www.nasa.gov/grail and http://grail.nasa.gov . DC Agle 818-393-9011 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. a...@jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.br...@nasa.gov Caroline McCall 617-253-1682 Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge cmca...@mit.edu 2011-314 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Missing Moon Rocks
Ark. Archivist Finds Missing Moon Rock, All Things Considered, NPR, September 26, 2011 http://www.npr.org/2011/09/26/140818261/ark-archivist-finds-missing-moon-rock Arkansas' Missing Moon Rock Turns Up In Boxes Of Clinton's Memorabilia, by Mark Memmott, http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/09/22/140706052/arkansas-missing-moon-rock-turns-up-in-boxes-of-clintons-memorabilia Alaska man claims to have missing Apollo-era moon rock by Alex Sanz / KHOU 11 News http://www.khou.com/news/Alaska-man-claims-to-have-missing-Apollo-era-moon-rock-124676664.html Missing moon rock? Ex-governor had it: $5 million specimen was given to Colorado during Nixon administration Associated Press, http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37454964/ns/technology_and_science-space/t/missing-moon-rock-ex-governor-had-it/#.ToGykU_Swdo Hawaiian Moon Rocks Found, Most Others Still Missing by Alexis Madrigal, Wired Science http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/01/hawaiian-moon-rocks-found-most-others-still-missing/ Best wishes, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NASA Moon Mission In Final Preparations For September Launch (GRAIL)
Aug. 25, 2011 Dwayne Brown Headquarters, Washington 202-358-1726 dwayne.c.br...@nasa.gov DC Agle Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. 818-393-9011 a...@jpl.nasa.gov Caroline McCall Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge 617-253-1682 cmca...@mit.edu RELEASE: 11-275 NASA MOON MISSION IN FINAL PREPARATIONS FOR SEPTEMBER LAUNCH CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. -- NASA's Gravity Recovery And Interior Laboratory (GRAIL), mission to study the moon is in final launch preparations for a scheduled Sept. 8 launch onboard a Delta II rocket from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida. GRAIL's twin spacecraft are tasked for a nine-month mission to explore Earth's nearest neighbor in unprecedented detail. They will determine the structure of the lunar interior from crust to core and advance our understanding of the thermal evolution of the moon. Yesterday's final encapsulation of the spacecraft is an important mission milestone, said David Lehman, GRAIL project manager for NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. Our two spacecraft are now sitting comfortably inside the payload fairing which will protect them during ascent. Next time the GRAIL twins will see the light of day they will be about 95 miles up and accelerating. The spacecraft twins, GRAIL A and B, will fly a circuitous route to lunar orbit taking 3.5 months and covering approximately 2.6 million miles (4.2 million kilometers) for GRAIL-A, and 2.7 million miles (4.3 million kilometers) for GRAIL-B. In lunar orbit, the spacecraft will transmit radio signals precisely defining the distance between them. Regional gravitational differences on the moon are expected to expand and contract that distance. GRAIL scientists will use these accurate measurements to define the moon's gravity field. The data will allow mission scientists to understand what goes on below the surface of our natural satellite. GRAIL will unlock lunar mysteries and help us understand how the moon, Earth and other rocky planets evolved as well, said Maria Zuber, GRAIL principal investigator from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge. GRAIL's launch period opens Sept. 8 and extends through Oct. 19. On each day, there are two separate launch opportunities separated by approximately 39 minutes. On Sept. 8, the first launch opportunity is 8:37 a.m. EDT; the second is 9:16 a.m. JPL manages the GRAIL mission. It is part of the Discovery Program managed at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala. Lockheed Martin Space Systems in Denver, built the spacecraft. Launch management for the mission is the responsibility of NASA's Launch Services Program at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida. For extensive pre-launch and launch day coverage of the GRAIL spacecraft, visit: http://www.nasa.gov A prelaunch webcast for the mission will be streamed at noon on Wednesday, Sept. 7. Live countdown coverage through NASA's Launch Blog begins at 6:30 a.m. on Sept. 8. Coverage features live updates as countdown milestones occur and streaming video clips highlighting launch preparations and liftoff. To view the webcast and the blog or to learn more about the GRAIL mission, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/grail and http://grail.nasa.gov To view live interviews with lunar scientists from noon to 5 p.m. on Sept. 8 and 9, visit: http://www.livestream.com/grail -end- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Are Moon Rocks 'Meteor'?
Hello All, Why do Moon Rocks make a better snack than Earth Rocks?... ...Because Moon Rocks are Meteor! This was a joke a friend told me the other day who is not directly involved in meteorites. It was a welcome bit of humor I appreciated so I thought I would share! Best Regards, Greg Hupé __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Earth/Moon impact modeling
Hi Chris - The folks at NASA who are working on this are extremely competent, and are in close association with meteoritics research groups at universities and observatories around the world. To suggest that these people are incompetent says more about you than it does them. I did not say that those NASA works with are incompetent. Many of them have put great effort into trying to straighten NASA researchers out. Nobody has a good idea about ELE scale events, because they are so rare as to make statistics useless. Actually, we do have really good data for both multi-species ELE and human ELE. Neither agree with the models. But we have a very good idea about the local meteoroid environment, Actually, asteroid population estimates have risen dramatically in recent years, and the formation hypotheses have undergone several revisions and are under constant improvement. Comet source populations are unknown. including good estimates for lunar impacts, which are regularly observed. Assuming no periodicity or spikes, both of which are huge assumptions. Reasonable estimates now exist for material distribution, including size, velocity, and orbits, from dust through tens of meters. These estimates are backed up by observational evidence from space-borne test surfaces, the previously mentioned lunar impact data, hundreds of thousands of optically recorded meteors, and tens of millions of radar meteors. Once again, right now no one knows the parent populations of either asteroids or comets with much certainty. The Earth environment models are presumed to describe quite well both the shadowing and focusing effects of the Earth and Moon on each other. Actually, we're dealing with indeterminate equations, and will be until more cratering data comes in from other bodies in our solar system. Including some ideas as to what hit, whether asteroidal or cometary. As a brief demonstration of my assertion, consider that based on Moon data Morrison set the ELE rate at 1 per 100 million years, when it is 1 per 26 million years. QED, Chris. Ed __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
I wonder if this is not the same rock that was recently on ebay starting at $2,500 bid. http://www.space.com/11804-nasa-moon-rock-sting-apollo17.html Could it be the same supposed Moon rock? Not the one in the photo, but one small chip that is still be investigated as is the seller. Steve Schoner IMCA 4470 Penny Stock Jumping 3000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3341/4ddf1f7d76cb7cba59st04duc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Space.com does a decent job of getting the facts straight. It is only one of few forms of media I trust not to butcher a story or harp too much about monetary value. Best Regards, Adam - Original Message From: Steve Schoner scho...@mybluelight.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, May 26, 2011 8:49:00 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? I wonder if this is not the same rock that was recently on ebay starting at $2,500 bid. http://www.space.com/11804-nasa-moon-rock-sting-apollo17.html Could it be the same supposed Moon rock? Not the one in the photo, but one small chip that is still be investigated as is the seller. Steve Schoner IMCA 4470 Penny Stock Jumping 3000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3341/4ddf1f7d76cb7cba59st04duc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Pale Moon Rising
Hi List, Closest approach in twenty years. Over Libya the fast movers will refer to it as a Bombers Moon. http://enews.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20110318/e0ef9da2-195a-49b8-9f00-32cf28db06c4 Count Deiro IMCA 3536 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Pale Moon Rising
Count Deiro wrote: Closest approach in twenty years. Sky Telescope, March 1993, p. 73: When the Moon is full on the night of the 7th it is also at its closest perigee (nearest Earth) for the whole year and therefore at its biggest and brightest. The difference, however, may not be enough to notice with- out actually measuring the Moon's apparent diameter. Moonstruck*, Bernd * not (yet) really ;-) __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
.-Lunar? The description sounds more convincing: I found this in my rock collection, stuff from about 15-20 years ago. I’ve strained to recall where I got it, but it is just a stray from one of my 3 trips in the 90’s, all in the US, but unfortunately all thrown into one box. I do know that none of these trips were to breccia fields, I was hunting artifacts at the time. It may have been in Texas. It has an UNCANNY RESEMBLANCE to a few Dhofars, wouldn’t you say?!? This stone has a very faint magnetic spot near that beautiful top clast! (N40 magnet found it; one photo shows it barely holding there). Of course, NO BRECCIAS from earth look like this. They have much more gravity to their order than this. And: The price-setting is as it should be for a truly anomalous stone from the United States of America, that can for now visually pair with the Dhofar set. Right so. It has 17 grams and costs only 0,75 million $. Ooooh, the Campell County Gillette meteorite is reduced this week, from 150k$ to only 111k$. This thing is huge and weighs probably close to 60 pounds. It is approximately 18 wide, 8 high, and 12 across. My late father found it on the 160-acre homesteaded ranch near Gillette, Wyoming. The title to the property read the name of the Indian chief, the United States Government, and then his folk's name, seriously. Anyway, while wandering every acre in his youth, he found a cigar box full of original arrowheads. And some rattlesnake rattles. And this rock. It was part of a larger group of similar rocks, burrowed into the landscape. I do not know a meteorite from a parking-meter, so you experts help me out. What is this? How much is it worth? It remains unauthenticated and unclassified. Should I take it to the Colorado School of Mines? To whom? It is priced arbitrarily, based on the show from the History Channel. And RARE CERTIFIED MARTHA'S VINEYARD, MASS. METEORITE DOCUMENTED AND CERTIFIED RARE METEORITE Is getting cheaper every month, now only 11,600$. A FUSION CRUST OUTER PIECE OF THE MARTHA'S VINEYARD METEORITE FALL. IT IS DOCUMENTED AND CERTIFIED AND IS INSURABLE. FOUND ON THE VINEYARD IN 2005 THIS PIECE CONTAINS 54 EARTH ELEMENTS AND HAS BEEN CERTIFIED BY A HARVARD MINERALOLOGIST. IT WOULD MAKE ONE OF THE RAREST AND MOST EXPENSIVE PAPERWEIGHTS OF EVER. A TEN PAGE CERTIFIED SUMMARY REPORT IS INCLUDED IN THE SALE. NOT SHOWN. WEIGHT 237 G, DENSITY 4.21 That is more convincing than the Apollo rock description. Good night! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: cdtuc...@cox.net [mailto:cdtuc...@cox.net] Gesendet: Samstag, 5. Februar 2011 01:28 An: Martin Altmann; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Martin, Had you been following this thread you would know that their has yet to be a court case to determine whether a private individual may or may not legally own an Apollo lunar rock. Steve and Phil have both pointed out such cases where two different people have claimed to own and tried to sell their Lunar material. One lost the case on the basis of import laws and the other on the basis that they could not analysis the rock in resin so, they still got to keep their rock. In addition I have personally seen yet another of these resin examples owned by a retired Raytheon manager. I have held it in my own hands. To bad I did not carry a camera at the time. But it does exist. It has also been stated that their are no records of these giveaways. Who knows how many of them are out there. So, there is nothing plain and simple about it. Yet. sorry. Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
In the description, his Planetary Geologist buddy had supposedly offered $5000 for it, but he declined due to the risk associated with the transaction? Boy, that makes me want to bid on it. (As Borat says Nnno!!) Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: Steve Schoner scho...@mybluelight.com Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 20:34:54 To: cdtuc...@cox.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Upon looking at this auction again, I am now suspecting that this sample might be the real thing. That label appears to be a NASA control label specific to space materials, which in this case is the supposed moon rock. My question now is this... There appears to be a small photo of the specimen in question on this control label. If so, that would further define this specimen as authentic. Could this be a research specimen that somehow escaped government control? Something to think about. But all said, with the legal aspects of legit ownership, I would be reluctant to bid on it... Steve Schoner -- Original Message -- From: cdtuc...@cox.net To: Steve Schoner scho...@mybluelight.com, countde...@earthlink.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 12:51:48 -0500 Steve, Where is the beef Sure , we would all love to have what you have but , what is the difference between what you have and anybody else? Say, I was the king of England and my good buddy the President of the USA gave me a genuine moon rock. And he did give away plenty. I decide to sell it on EBay. Where is the law that says that is illegal? And how does that differ from what you have? Is it because you did not get caught buying yours? Why is it okay for you to buy moon material and not others? Again, show us the beef? What exactly does the law state and how do you know this? Normally , when people make statements they want to back them up with evidence? I believe you I just want to read it myself. And I'm quite sure you have piqued the interest of others as well. Yes, I am home getting my frozen pipes replaced. Waiting for the B-bash tonight. Best regards, Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Steve Schoner scho...@mybluelight.com wrote: Yes, Count, I remember that day in December two years ago when I won it. My heart was beating fast as I watched the seconds go expecting this piece of tape jumping from hundreds to thousands in the last seconds. 2 seconds before closing I placed my bid... I could not believe it... I sniped it for $451.00! (BTW: The worst time to place items on Ebay is the Holidays, it is a buyer's market and a sellers loss.) The Moon Dust tape and Documents of Authenticity from Spaceflori came on Dec 18th, 2009. I spent days after looking at this tiny piece of tape under my microscope, amazed to see the spherical glass beads, green, orange, beige glass beads, other lunar dust particles, and even a few fibers of beta cloth from the glove that Neal Armstrong wore when he picked Magazine S from the surface of the moon. As for that piece of reputed Apollo moon rock on Ebay now... As I wrote before... Even a piece reputed to be from the Apollo program can be confiscated by NASA. And the buyer should he or she win it, is not exempt from such confiscation either. The seller is on dangerous legal ground. Steve Schoner -- Original Message -- From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net To: Steve Schoner scho...@mybluelight.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: m...@miataylor.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 03:16:12 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Hi Steve and List, Thanks for posting the link to your very informative video. Congratulations on what must be one of the all time best sniping incidents on EBay. You do have the real deal. Listers might not know that the international auction house, Sothebys, auctioned dust from a Russian unmanned lunar mission. In 1970 the Soviet Union sent an automated sample-return mission to the moon and three fragments collected on this mission, weighing just 200 milligrams, were sold by Sotheby's Vice Chairman, David Redden, for $442.500.00. The sale was held in 1993, so in today's dollars we are probably talking near a million. You lucky dog. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Steve Schoner scho...@mybluelight.com Sent: Feb 3, 2011 10:10 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? As much as I know it is illegal to even present an item such as this rock on Ebay as an authentic Apollo recovered moon rock. Even if it is not, just to state that it is is enough to have
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
I think that with such a fragment a forensic inspection of it might reveal its true identity. I am sure that true lunar Apollo samples will be significantly different from lunar meteorites. I am told that the label might not be a control label, but a standard generic type NASA label. But real or fake, because it was offered with supposed NASA atribution... Buyer beware. There are legal ramifications with Apollo moon samples. Steve -- Original Message -- From: fallingfus...@wi.rr.com To: Steve Schoner scho...@mybluelight.com, meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com, cdtuc...@cox.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 19:25:53 + In the description, his Planetary Geologist buddy had supposedly offered $5000 for it, but he declined due to the risk associated with the transaction? Boy, that makes me want to bid on it. (As Borat says Nnno!!) Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: Steve Schoner scho...@mybluelight.com Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 20:34:54 To: cdtuc...@cox.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Upon looking at this auction again, I am now suspecting that this sample might be the real thing. That label appears to be a NASA control label specific to space materials, which in this case is the supposed moon rock. My question now is this... There appears to be a small photo of the specimen in question on this control label. If so, that would further define this specimen as authentic. Could this be a research specimen that somehow escaped government control? Something to think about. But all said, with the legal aspects of legit ownership, I would be reluctant to bid on it... Steve Schoner -- Original Message -- From: cdtuc...@cox.net To: Steve Schoner scho...@mybluelight.com, countde...@earthlink.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 12:51:48 -0500 Steve, Where is the beef Sure , we would all love to have what you have but , what is the difference between what you have and anybody else? Say, I was the king of England and my good buddy the President of the USA gave me a genuine moon rock. And he did give away plenty. I decide to sell it on EBay. Where is the law that says that is illegal? And how does that differ from what you have? Is it because you did not get caught buying yours? Why is it okay for you to buy moon material and not others? Again, show us the beef? What exactly does the law state and how do you know this? Normally , when people make statements they want to back them up with evidence? I believe you I just want to read it myself. And I'm quite sure you have piqued the interest of others as well. Yes, I am home getting my frozen pipes replaced. Waiting for the B-bash tonight. Best regards, Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Steve Schoner scho...@mybluelight.com wrote: Yes, Count, I remember that day in December two years ago when I won it. My heart was beating fast as I watched the seconds go expecting this piece of tape jumping from hundreds to thousands in the last seconds. 2 seconds before closing I placed my bid... I could not believe it... I sniped it for $451.00! (BTW: The worst time to place items on Ebay is the Holidays, it is a buyer's market and a sellers loss.) The Moon Dust tape and Documents of Authenticity from Spaceflori came on Dec 18th, 2009. I spent days after looking at this tiny piece of tape under my microscope, amazed to see the spherical glass beads, green, orange, beige glass beads, other lunar dust particles, and even a few fibers of beta cloth from the glove that Neal Armstrong wore when he picked Magazine S from the surface of the moon. As for that piece of reputed Apollo moon rock on Ebay now... As I wrote before... Even a piece reputed to be from the Apollo program can be confiscated by NASA. And the buyer should he or she win it, is not exempt from such confiscation either. The seller is on dangerous legal ground. Steve Schoner -- Original Message -- From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net To: Steve Schoner scho...@mybluelight.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: m...@miataylor.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 03:16:12 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Hi Steve and List, Thanks for posting the link to your very informative video. Congratulations on what must be one of the all time best sniping incidents on EBay. You do have the real deal. Listers might not know that the international auction house, Sothebys, auctioned dust from a Russian unmanned lunar mission. In 1970
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Hi Steve and List, Thanks for posting the link to your very informative video. Congratulations on what must be one of the all time best sniping incidents on EBay. You do have the real deal. Listers might not know that the international auction house, Sothebys, auctioned dust from a Russian unmanned lunar mission. In 1970 the Soviet Union sent an automated sample-return mission to the moon and three fragments collected on this mission, weighing just 200 milligrams, were sold by Sotheby's Vice Chairman, David Redden, for $442.500.00. The sale was held in 1993, so in today's dollars we are probably talking near a million. You lucky dog. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Steve Schoner scho...@mybluelight.com Sent: Feb 3, 2011 10:10 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? As much as I know it is illegal to even present an item such as this rock on Ebay as an authentic Apollo recovered moon rock. Even if it is not, just to state that it is is enough to have it confiscated by the U.S. Government. A case in point was a recent desk mount with a pen holder that had a molded plastic transparent rock that supposedly had Apollo recovered lunar dust and sand sized rock particles in it. It was being auctioned at a major auction house and was taken down when the U.S. Government confiscated it. It was tested and from what I recall returned to the owner(s)as it could not be confirmed as authentic. And that was the end of that as a salable piece. However, the Terry Slezak Apollo 11 Moon Dust tape IS authentic. And as much as I know it is the only Apollo 11 lunar material that is available for the public to own. The entire poster board with the Moon dust tape,some foil from the Apollo 11, the label from Magazine S that Armstrong dropped, a note that Buzz Aldrin wrote on the moon, and the Apollo 11 crew signatures, was included in an auction that Mr. Florian Noller won sometime in 2001. This tape was then sectioned into small triangles, each having particles of moon dust on them, which he then sold under his company Spaceflori. It is the real deal. I know because I won one of these Apollo Moon Dust tape presentations on Ebay a few years ago. I could not believe the low price I won it at. It was a real loss to the seller, but he honored the deal. I remember that it was brought up on this MetList and there was much doubt of it's authenticity. But I knew otherwise, having previously followed the sale of the Slezak tape in a Space artifacts auction held 2001. Under a high power microscope there is no doubt in my mind that it is the real thing. I communicated with Mr. Noller in Germany and he remembered the person that I obtained it from. He was amazed at the low price that I obtained it in the Ebay auction, stating that Ebay is not the place to auction such artifacts. Here is my Apollo 11 Moon Dust tape--- the real deal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C3lPlmpoKo But... As for the suspected Apollo moon rock being offered on Ebay. If NASA finds out about the auction it will be taken down by court order if Ebay refuses. That I do know. Steve Schoner It was in fact proven to have been presented to Mr. Slezak Message: 12 Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 20:35:21 -0500 From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? To: Walter Branch waltbra...@bellsouth.net Cc: Meteorite-list List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: aanlktim8gv1m7mlqlfyhim1qxyp6_pkb6obij10w4...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Walt and List, Thanks for reminding me about the camera cartridge dust. I had forgotten about that. AFAIK, that is the only legal Apollo lunar material on the market. I've love to own one of those little pieces of tape with dust on it, but the asking price is too rich for my blood. I'll have to settle for a small micro of NWA 482. :) I guess one of us could report the auction to eBay, but I doubt they will pull the auction down. I gave up on reporting things to eBay, since they never listen to me. Best regards, MikeG 1 Simple Form: Up to 4 Offers! Refi to low APR before rates rise. $200,000 for $857/mo. No SSN required. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3341/4d4b987b61fdf1be5a3st01duc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Strange, why such a stir on the list, when a person with zero references dumps a piece of cat litter as Apollo sample on ebay? Such stories are stone-old. Already in the 1980ies material was circulating, where sellers claimed them to be Apollo stuff, with similar stories a la my grandma had a romantic affair with a NASA-boss and he gave her a Moon rock as present. And every 3 years or so from Russia people go hawking with unidentifiable grains, often fancy arranged in capsules or microscope slides, claiming they would be from the Luna-probes. Usually garnished with papers from institutes, nobody ever heard of, and garnished with similar stories, a la Brezhnev in person gave it to my uncle, who was a high KGB-general for his merits... I'm tempted to pluck some hair from my head and to wallow it a little bit in some butter, to put it on ebay as an Elvis-curl, if it's so easy to get your attention. Even the question is not interesting, whether the crumb is part of one of the many stolen Goodwill-Rock-pieces, like from Malta, Romania or from half Africa and Eastern-Europe, cause nobody would be so stupid to use a public platform to try to sell it. Dunno, a dozen postings - like it is so often - for a primitive fake auction on ebay. Here are so many on the list, permanently introducing new exciting and often breathtaking REAL space matters, - I guess, they would be glad, if they would get half that echo, those dirty clowns usually get here, who are trying to commit fraud with their self-found Martian, Lunar, Saturnian lumps from the dump in their backyards. Just use on ebay the search tag: meteori* -rolex Sort the result: Price highest first And you will have on the first pages every day one, two dozen incredible stupid fake auctions. American Lunars, Texas meteorite at 0.75 million, Martha's Vineyard, Canyon Diablo achondrites, Martian blood vessels, ooold Buddhist Mekong-iron carved ritual crapas it would be Dr.Terminus' playground. And honestly, the worries about the so helpless and innocent victims... if they are sooo extremely stupid? I get everyday emails, from people I never heard of, who found out, that an uncle of mine died, and that they urgently have to send 10 millions or so on my bank account. Poor victims of political intrigues in China, Africa, Iraq, who will transfer to me some few millions immediately, if I will help them. Investors vom Arab and China countries, who recovered my biz and want to give a couple of millions to play with, millions I win every day, from lotteries I never took part. On average, if I would accept, my fortune would grow each day with 52,000,000 USD. Pills I get offered, that I can reduce parts of my body and other pills, who will enlarge other parts of my body... ...would anybody have mercy with me, if I would be so stupid to fall for such stuff? Two simple advices: 1.Such kind of ebay auctions - as soon as you see there written a $ and a figure larger than only 0 - then it's fraud. If the sum = 0 - then it's no fraud but naivete. 2. Whenever someone (with exception if the person is from Maghreb) contacts you asking for your opinion, whether his find is a meteorite AND his first, second or third question is: How much is it worth or where can I sell it. - Don't answer, it's wasted time. Best! Martin ...hey I have a few rocks here, which are from Moon ;-) Also sume, where geologists said, they are from Planet Mars. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Martin, Obviously this eBay auction is not genuine material. But, everybody knows there is a lot of real material out there that was given away. The question is . How much? And in what form? One thing is certain. It was not distributed on an old piece of carpeting. The ones I have seen are very well displayed in resin along with a formal presentation. Nobody is saying exactly how many of these are actually out there but, I have seen one in private hands that was given to an engineer / manager at Raytheon. It is in a clear resin pyramid about an inch tall and is an actual pebble not just dust. What is disturbing to me is what I am hearing here that it is illegal to sell these gifts from NASA? And if you try NASA will seize them? I thought the only Government org that was allowed NOT to follow due process of the law was the IRS. Now , I am hearing that NASA has the same power as the IRS? I certainly hope not. Sure a court may grant some action that could stop these sales if it is in fact illegal but, I am surprised that a non-law enforcement agency like NASA has that much power. This unless there is an actual law on the books. In which case becomes simply a matter of law enforcement. In which case any cop can seize the material. Until I see that law it seems to me that it is legal to sell this material if it is real and was obtained legally. Again, this eBay offering is clearly not real but, I would like to see the law in print that prohibits the sale of moon rocks. Anybody got a copy to share? Thanks, Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Strange, why such a stir on the list, when a person with zero references dumps a piece of cat litter as Apollo sample on ebay? Such stories are stone-old. Already in the 1980ies material was circulating, where sellers claimed them to be Apollo stuff, with similar stories a la my grandma had a romantic affair with a NASA-boss and he gave her a Moon rock as present. And every 3 years or so from Russia people go hawking with unidentifiable grains, often fancy arranged in capsules or microscope slides, claiming they would be from the Luna-probes. Usually garnished with papers from institutes, nobody ever heard of, and garnished with similar stories, a la Brezhnev in person gave it to my uncle, who was a high KGB-general for his merits... I'm tempted to pluck some hair from my head and to wallow it a little bit in some butter, to put it on ebay as an Elvis-curl, if it's so easy to get your attention. Even the question is not interesting, whether the crumb is part of one of the many stolen Goodwill-Rock-pieces, like from Malta, Romania or from half Africa and Eastern-Europe, cause nobody would be so stupid to use a public platform to try to sell it. Dunno, a dozen postings - like it is so often - for a primitive fake auction on ebay. Here are so many on the list, permanently introducing new exciting and often breathtaking REAL space matters, - I guess, they would be glad, if they would get half that echo, those dirty clowns usually get here, who are trying to commit fraud with their self-found Martian, Lunar, Saturnian lumps from the dump in their backyards. Just use on ebay the search tag: meteori* -rolex Sort the result: Price highest first And you will have on the first pages every day one, two dozen incredible stupid fake auctions. American Lunars, Texas meteorite at 0.75 million, Martha's Vineyard, Canyon Diablo achondrites, Martian blood vessels, ooold Buddhist Mekong-iron carved ritual crapas it would be Dr.Terminus' playground. And honestly, the worries about the so helpless and innocent victims... if they are sooo extremely stupid? I get everyday emails, from people I never heard of, who found out, that an uncle of mine died, and that they urgently have to send 10 millions or so on my bank account. Poor victims of political intrigues in China, Africa, Iraq, who will transfer to me some few millions immediately, if I will help them. Investors vom Arab and China countries, who recovered my biz and want to give a couple of millions to play with, millions I win every day, from lotteries I never took part. On average, if I would accept, my fortune would grow each day with 52,000,000 USD. Pills I get offered, that I can reduce parts of my body and other pills, who will enlarge other parts of my body... ...would anybody have mercy with me, if I would be so stupid to fall for such stuff? Two simple advices: 1.Such kind of ebay auctions - as soon as you see there written a $ and a figure larger than only 0 - then it's fraud. If the sum = 0 - then it's no fraud but naivete. 2. Whenever someone (with exception if the person is from Maghreb) contacts you asking for your opinion, whether his find is a meteorite AND his first, second or third question is: How much is it worth or where can I sell it. -
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Has anyone contacted the seller with the Apollo Moon Rock or if they have did they get a response back from him? I would think that since he has 100% feedback and has 4.8 out of 5 on Item as Described and 4.9 of 5 on Communication, Shipping Time and Shipping and handling charges that he might honestly think he as a REAL Moon Rock, plus he's got 989 feedback in just 2 years. That Purple 70s Carpet he has it photographed on is a sight for a 70s flashback movie, but I think he needs some direction. If he had 15 feedbacks and was selling really crazy off the wall stuff I would think he was a con artist, but just might need some help and direction in this case. One other thing that bothers me about anything sold for a high price is the ebay/paypal rule on refunds, without returns, that so many of my seller friends are complaining about. Many I know that don't sell meteorites complain that the ebay/Paypal refund policy is if the buyer contacts Paypal and even says the item was not exactly as described even if it's a minor scratch, etc., that Paypal will refund their money and let the buyer keep the item and not return it like they used to do a year or so ago and in the past. Sellers are really getting screwed in this case. I know people that will only sell any item over $2,000 on their website or some other way. Everyone have a great day and those in Tucson, I hope it warms up for you. All the best! Cheers! Brian Cox IMCA #6387 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Brian, You are misinformed. EBay does require return and proof of return before granting and releasing refunds. -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Brian Cox searchingfor...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Has anyone contacted the seller with the Apollo Moon Rock or if they have did they get a response back from him? I would think that since he has 100% feedback and has 4.8 out of 5 on Item as Described and 4.9 of 5 on Communication, Shipping Time and Shipping and handling charges that he might honestly think he as a REAL Moon Rock, plus he's got 989 feedback in just 2 years. That Purple 70s Carpet he has it photographed on is a sight for a 70s flashback movie, but I think he needs some direction. If he had 15 feedbacks and was selling really crazy off the wall stuff I would think he was a con artist, but just might need some help and direction in this case. One other thing that bothers me about anything sold for a high price is the ebay/paypal rule on refunds, without returns, that so many of my seller friends are complaining about. Many I know that don't sell meteorites complain that the ebay/Paypal refund policy is if the buyer contacts Paypal and even says the item was not exactly as described even if it's a minor scratch, etc., that Paypal will refund their money and let the buyer keep the item and not return it like they used to do a year or so ago and in the past. Sellers are really getting screwed in this case. I know people that will only sell any item over $2,000 on their website or some other way. Everyone have a great day and those in Tucson, I hope it warms up for you. All the best! Cheers! Brian Cox IMCA #6387 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
p.s. Sorry, folks, on the Apollo Moon rock, I meant to also say that perhaps he's selling it for someone else, which seems to be common these days and he has no idea of the rules and regulations of Not owning or Not selling a NASA moon rock. Also, he may have been conned into buying it and believes it's a true moon rock and has no idea about any laws, and thinks it's legist. Either way, he probably needs some help, direction and needs explained that he is doing something illegal. Take care, Brian Cox IMCA # 6387 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
p.s.s. I need to correct my previous statement about the refunds on eBay. I just called eBay and was told if an item is $50 or less, the eBay rep said they will pay the buyer the amount and let them keep the item, just to avoid time and hassles. This means eBay is footing the amount, and it doesn't come out of the seller's account. So, basically as per the eBay rep, anything over $50 they still require it sent back and then when proof is given by the buyer such as a Post Office confirmation, then the refund is given. Now, I do want to make a statement here on behalf of the seller I know and several others who are into the 15,000 to 30,000 range, that often they will get a package back, and it contains ROCKS or other JUNK and they have not been able to prove to eBay/PayPal that the buyer didn't send the item back since it's based on a confirmation or shipping number. Now, also, two of these friends will take a box returned by a seller directly to the Post Office and open it there at the window in front of a Post Office employee so they have a witness and I believe they may also then be able to file a complaint with the Post Office. Just wanted to clear that since Carl alerted me to my statement about no returns and I wanted to clarify that. Thanks, Brian Cox IMAC #6387 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Yes, Count, I remember that day in December two years ago when I won it. My heart was beating fast as I watched the seconds go expecting this piece of tape jumping from hundreds to thousands in the last seconds. 2 seconds before closing I placed my bid... I could not believe it... I sniped it for $451.00! (BTW: The worst time to place items on Ebay is the Holidays, it is a buyer's market and a sellers loss.) The Moon Dust tape and Documents of Authenticity from Spaceflori came on Dec 18th, 2009. I spent days after looking at this tiny piece of tape under my microscope, amazed to see the spherical glass beads, green, orange, beige glass beads, other lunar dust particles, and even a few fibers of beta cloth from the glove that Neal Armstrong wore when he picked Magazine S from the surface of the moon. As for that piece of reputed Apollo moon rock on Ebay now... As I wrote before... Even a piece reputed to be from the Apollo program can be confiscated by NASA. And the buyer should he or she win it, is not exempt from such confiscation either. The seller is on dangerous legal ground. Steve Schoner -- Original Message -- From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net To: Steve Schoner scho...@mybluelight.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: m...@miataylor.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 03:16:12 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Hi Steve and List, Thanks for posting the link to your very informative video. Congratulations on what must be one of the all time best sniping incidents on EBay. You do have the real deal. Listers might not know that the international auction house, Sothebys, auctioned dust from a Russian unmanned lunar mission. In 1970 the Soviet Union sent an automated sample-return mission to the moon and three fragments collected on this mission, weighing just 200 milligrams, were sold by Sotheby's Vice Chairman, David Redden, for $442.500.00. The sale was held in 1993, so in today's dollars we are probably talking near a million. You lucky dog. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Steve Schoner scho...@mybluelight.com Sent: Feb 3, 2011 10:10 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? As much as I know it is illegal to even present an item such as this rock on Ebay as an authentic Apollo recovered moon rock. Even if it is not, just to state that it is is enough to have it confiscated by the U.S. Government. A case in point was a recent desk mount with a pen holder that had a molded plastic transparent rock that supposedly had Apollo recovered lunar dust and sand sized rock particles in it. It was being auctioned at a major auction house and was taken down when the U.S. Government confiscated it. It was tested and from what I recall returned to the owner(s)as it could not be confirmed as authentic. And that was the end of that as a salable piece. However, the Terry Slezak Apollo 11 Moon Dust tape IS authentic. And as much as I know it is the only Apollo 11 lunar material that is available for the public to own. The entire poster board with the Moon dust tape,some foil from the Apollo 11, the label from Magazine S that Armstrong dropped, a note that Buzz Aldrin wrote on the moon, and the Apollo 11 crew signatures, was included in an auction that Mr. Florian Noller won sometime in 2001. This tape was then sectioned into small triangles, each having particles of moon dust on them, which he then sold under his company Spaceflori. It is the real deal. I know because I won one of these Apollo Moon Dust tape presentations on Ebay a few years ago. I could not believe the low price I won it at. It was a real loss to the seller, but he honored the deal. I remember that it was brought up on this MetList and there was much doubt of it's authenticity. But I knew otherwise, having previously followed the sale of the Slezak tape in a Space artifacts auction held 2001. Under a high power microscope there is no doubt in my mind that it is the real thing. I communicated with Mr. Noller in Germany and he remembered the person that I obtained it from. He was amazed at the low price that I obtained it in the Ebay auction, stating that Ebay is not the place to auction such artifacts. Here is my Apollo 11 Moon Dust tape--- the real deal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C3lPlmpoKo But... As for the suspected Apollo moon rock being offered on Ebay. If NASA finds out about the auction it will be taken down by court order if Ebay refuses. That I do know. Steve Schoner It was in fact proven to have been presented to Mr. Slezak Message: 12 Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 20:35:21 -0500 From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? To: Walter Branch waltbra...@bellsouth.net Cc: Meteorite-list List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Steve, Where is the beef Sure , we would all love to have what you have but , what is the difference between what you have and anybody else? Say, I was the king of England and my good buddy the President of the USA gave me a genuine moon rock. And he did give away plenty. I decide to sell it on EBay. Where is the law that says that is illegal? And how does that differ from what you have? Is it because you did not get caught buying yours? Why is it okay for you to buy moon material and not others? Again, show us the beef? What exactly does the law state and how do you know this? Normally , when people make statements they want to back them up with evidence? I believe you I just want to read it myself. And I'm quite sure you have piqued the interest of others as well. Yes, I am home getting my frozen pipes replaced. Waiting for the B-bash tonight. Best regards, Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Steve Schoner scho...@mybluelight.com wrote: Yes, Count, I remember that day in December two years ago when I won it. My heart was beating fast as I watched the seconds go expecting this piece of tape jumping from hundreds to thousands in the last seconds. 2 seconds before closing I placed my bid... I could not believe it... I sniped it for $451.00! (BTW: The worst time to place items on Ebay is the Holidays, it is a buyer's market and a sellers loss.) The Moon Dust tape and Documents of Authenticity from Spaceflori came on Dec 18th, 2009. I spent days after looking at this tiny piece of tape under my microscope, amazed to see the spherical glass beads, green, orange, beige glass beads, other lunar dust particles, and even a few fibers of beta cloth from the glove that Neal Armstrong wore when he picked Magazine S from the surface of the moon. As for that piece of reputed Apollo moon rock on Ebay now... As I wrote before... Even a piece reputed to be from the Apollo program can be confiscated by NASA. And the buyer should he or she win it, is not exempt from such confiscation either. The seller is on dangerous legal ground. Steve Schoner -- Original Message -- From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net To: Steve Schoner scho...@mybluelight.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: m...@miataylor.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 03:16:12 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Hi Steve and List, Thanks for posting the link to your very informative video. Congratulations on what must be one of the all time best sniping incidents on EBay. You do have the real deal. Listers might not know that the international auction house, Sothebys, auctioned dust from a Russian unmanned lunar mission. In 1970 the Soviet Union sent an automated sample-return mission to the moon and three fragments collected on this mission, weighing just 200 milligrams, were sold by Sotheby's Vice Chairman, David Redden, for $442.500.00. The sale was held in 1993, so in today's dollars we are probably talking near a million. You lucky dog. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Steve Schoner scho...@mybluelight.com Sent: Feb 3, 2011 10:10 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? As much as I know it is illegal to even present an item such as this rock on Ebay as an authentic Apollo recovered moon rock. Even if it is not, just to state that it is is enough to have it confiscated by the U.S. Government. A case in point was a recent desk mount with a pen holder that had a molded plastic transparent rock that supposedly had Apollo recovered lunar dust and sand sized rock particles in it. It was being auctioned at a major auction house and was taken down when the U.S. Government confiscated it. It was tested and from what I recall returned to the owner(s)as it could not be confirmed as authentic. And that was the end of that as a salable piece. However, the Terry Slezak Apollo 11 Moon Dust tape IS authentic. And as much as I know it is the only Apollo 11 lunar material that is available for the public to own. The entire poster board with the Moon dust tape,some foil from the Apollo 11, the label from Magazine S that Armstrong dropped, a note that Buzz Aldrin wrote on the moon, and the Apollo 11 crew signatures, was included in an auction that Mr. Florian Noller won sometime in 2001. This tape was then sectioned into small triangles, each having particles of moon dust on them, which he then sold under his company Spaceflori. It is the real deal. I know because I won one of these Apollo Moon Dust tape presentations on Ebay a few years ago. I could not believe the low price I won it at. It was a real loss to the seller, but he honored the deal. I remember that it was brought up on this MetList and there was much doubt of it's
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
The seller is on dangerous legal ground. I doubt so. Note, that Carl's They (gosh, I vehemently argue that there is at all a they. Without the postulate of a we and a they no new Tea-party would be possible). well note that the auction of the adhesive tape with the Apollo dust in the 1980ies, was only possible, because the They saw no need for action, as the dust was unauthenticated (well and in fact a pettiness). ...which in turn doesn't mean, that it isn't the real stuff. Btw. parts of the tape you can still acquire at my friend Florian Spaceflori Noller. Just give me a hint, if you need to contact him. Hence I doubt so, because that little cat litter specimen offered on ebay is: Nothing. confiscated by NASA. Probably rather by police or FBI in case. Off now for the Munich meteorite dinner bowling. Nose cones vs. Shatter cones. (In German bowling is called cone-ing - due to the conical shape of the pins). I'm thrilled to hear the stories of the bolide dropping calculators and their hunting adventures of the first possible fall of the year here in Germany. Martin PS. St Carl, wasn't there also a terrestrial lunar analogs collection at NASA then? I guess your engineer mixed something up. Would be also somewhat un-good, if even while nasty uncle Wernher didn't get any, as well as it took 40 years until the heroes, who had risk their lives to set their feet on Moon received a crumb - that then the guys from NASA said, hey Dude, you did a good job, instead of the usual watch, here you have a piece of Moon, had cost a quarter of million tax-money per gram to get it, have fun with it. Btw. also an edition of casts of lunar rocks exists. Not to mention the lunar soil simulants, still available for a few single bucks per pound. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Steve Schoner Gesendet: Freitag, 4. Februar 2011 18:17 An: countde...@earthlink.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Yes, Count, I remember that day in December two years ago when I won it. My heart was beating fast as I watched the seconds go expecting this piece of tape jumping from hundreds to thousands in the last seconds. 2 seconds before closing I placed my bid... I could not believe it... I sniped it for $451.00! (BTW: The worst time to place items on Ebay is the Holidays, it is a buyer's market and a sellers loss.) The Moon Dust tape and Documents of Authenticity from Spaceflori came on Dec 18th, 2009. I spent days after looking at this tiny piece of tape under my microscope, amazed to see the spherical glass beads, green, orange, beige glass beads, other lunar dust particles, and even a few fibers of beta cloth from the glove that Neal Armstrong wore when he picked Magazine S from the surface of the moon. As for that piece of reputed Apollo moon rock on Ebay now... As I wrote before... Even a piece reputed to be from the Apollo program can be confiscated by NASA. And the buyer should he or she win it, is not exempt from such confiscation either. The seller is on dangerous legal ground. Steve Schoner -- Original Message -- From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net To: Steve Schoner scho...@mybluelight.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: m...@miataylor.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 03:16:12 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Hi Steve and List, Thanks for posting the link to your very informative video. Congratulations on what must be one of the all time best sniping incidents on EBay. You do have the real deal. Listers might not know that the international auction house, Sothebys, auctioned dust from a Russian unmanned lunar mission. In 1970 the Soviet Union sent an automated sample-return mission to the moon and three fragments collected on this mission, weighing just 200 milligrams, were sold by Sotheby's Vice Chairman, David Redden, for $442.500.00. The sale was held in 1993, so in today's dollars we are probably talking near a million. You lucky dog. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Steve Schoner scho...@mybluelight.com Sent: Feb 3, 2011 10:10 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? As much as I know it is illegal to even present an item such as this rock on Ebay as an authentic Apollo recovered moon rock. Even if it is not, just to state that it is is enough to have it confiscated by the U.S. Government. A case in point was a recent desk mount with a pen holder that had a molded plastic transparent rock that supposedly had Apollo recovered lunar dust and sand sized rock particles in it. It was being auctioned at a major auction house and was taken down when the U.S. Government confiscated it. It was tested and from what I recall returned
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Proof that NASA can seize Apollo Lunar material: http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-092599a.html There are some other cases as well. Steve Schoner cdtucson at cox.net cdtucson at cox.net Fri Feb 4 11:04:56 EST 2011 * Previous message: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? * Next message: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Martin, Obviously this eBay auction is not genuine material. But, everybody knows there is a lot of real material out there that was given away. The question is . How much? And in what form? One thing is certain. It was not distributed on an old piece of carpeting. The ones I have seen are very well displayed in resin along with a formal presentation. Nobody is saying exactly how many of these are actually out there but, I have seen one in private hands that was given to an engineer / manager at Raytheon. It is in a clear resin pyramid about an inch tall and is an actual pebble not just dust. What is disturbing to me is what I am hearing here that it is illegal to sell these gifts from NASA? And if you try NASA will seize them? I thought the only Government org that was allowed NOT to follow due process of the law was the IRS. Now , I am hearing that NASA has the same power as the IRS? I certainly hope not. Sure a court may grant some action that could stop these sales if it is in fact illegal but, I am surprised that a non-law enforce ment agency like NASA has that much power. This unless there is an actual law on the books. In which case becomes simply a matter of law enforcement. In which case any cop can seize the material. Until I see that law it seems to me that it is legal to sell this material if it is real and was obtained legally. Again, this eBay offering is clearly not real but, I would like to see the law in print that prohibits the sale of moon rocks. Anybody got a copy to share? Thanks, Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax $65/Hr Job - 25 Openings Part-Time job ($20-$65/hr). Requirements: Home Internet Access http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3341/4d4c3d68221c14a012st05duc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
I believe this is the only court case involving moon rocks: http://www.collectspace.com/news/usvmoonrock.pdf Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Carl, There is no beef. Florian Noller president of Spaceflori that purchased the Terry Slezak's lunar dust tape went through the legal ropes years ago. And he did so to be on the up and up before he sectioned the tape for distribution through his company that is well known as a space artifacts seller. Mr. Noller has also sold dust samples from other Apollo missions as well as the dust was on certain patches and also personal flight bags that the astronauts were allowed to keep, and this also includes the Terry Slezak tape. So again there is no beef to eat. But then again, here is one sample of beef if you want to chow down on it: http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-092599a.html A cursory search on the Internet will most likely reveal other such cases where NASA can confiscate Apollo lunar material-- fake or real. Regards, Steve Schoner [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? cdtucson at cox.net cdtucson at cox.net Fri Feb 4 12:51:48 EST 2011 * Previous message: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? * Next message: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Steve, Where is the beef Sure , we would all love to have what you have but , what is the difference between what you have and anybody else? Say, I was the king of England and my good buddy the President of the USA gave me a genuine moon rock. And he did give away plenty. I decide to sell it on EBay. Where is the law that says that is illegal? And how does that differ from what you have? Is it because you did not get caught buying yours? Why is it okay for you to buy moon material and not others? Again, show us the beef? What exactly does the law state and how do you know this? Normally , when people make statements they want to back them up with evidence? I believe you I just want to read it myself. And I'm quite sure you have piqued the interest of others as well. Yes, I am home getting my frozen pipes replaced. Waiting for the B-bash tonight. Best regards, Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax $65/Hr Job - 25 Openings Part-Time job ($20-$65/hr). Requirements: Home Internet Access http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3341/4d4c41386e7a71c46aest02duc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Hi Folks, I am suspending all sales of Apollo Moon Rocks until further notice. ;) -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 2/4/11, JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com wrote: I believe this is the only court case involving moon rocks: http://www.collectspace.com/news/usvmoonrock.pdf Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
I couldn't find any specific statutes or codicils specifically prohibiting the ownership of Nasa moon rocks. I don't believe there is one. According to Wikipedia such a law doesn't exist. The Honduran case was about a customs violation. They might be able to get you on theft chages since the rocks are US gov't property. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_meteorite Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Well there we have it. This case showed that the material was obtained illegally and therefore seized and forfeited by our US Government. But, it does not apply to sales of Moon material that were obtained legally. Statute 19 USC. As is the case with some of the ones given by President Nixon. The one I saw was given by NASA as a retirement gift and therefore obtained legally. So, it could be sold. Maybe?? Still no actual copy of the stated law to read?. Steve's references returned the material. That tells me sales are okay. Why else would they have returned it? Granted the Gov could not prove it was from the Moon and therefore was returned to owner. The one I saw was also in resin also so, it too could not be proven to be from the moon either. Even though it was exactly like the one in this case referenced in Phil's post. So, I still do not see where it is actually illegal to own or sell legally obtained Moon material. Even rocks. BTW, The expression where's the beef refers to where's the proof. So, Where is the proof? This case Phil references seems to me could apply to illegally imported meteorites and would allow the US Gov. to seize them legally? Scary! If the No innocent owner clause does not apply to meteorites you cannot claim ignorance? . Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com wrote: I believe this is the only court case involving moon rocks: http://www.collectspace.com/news/usvmoonrock.pdf Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
This case Phil references seems to me could apply to illegally imported meteorites and would allow the US Gov. to seize them legally? Scary! If the No innocent owner clause does not apply to meteorites you cannot claim ignorance? Simple solution to that problem - when the government shows up to look at your meteorites, pull all the labels off of them. Then they won't be able an NWA from a Texas H-chondrite. No location info, no case. Best regards, MikeG On 2/4/11, cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: Well there we have it. This case showed that the material was obtained illegally and therefore seized and forfeited by our US Government. But, it does not apply to sales of Moon material that were obtained legally. Statute 19 USC. As is the case with some of the ones given by President Nixon. The one I saw was given by NASA as a retirement gift and therefore obtained legally. So, it could be sold. Maybe?? Still no actual copy of the stated law to read?. Steve's references returned the material. That tells me sales are okay. Why else would they have returned it? Granted the Gov could not prove it was from the Moon and therefore was returned to owner. The one I saw was also in resin also so, it too could not be proven to be from the moon either. Even though it was exactly like the one in this case referenced in Phil's post. So, I still do not see where it is actually illegal to own or sell legally obtained Moon material. Even rocks. BTW, The expression where's the beef refers to where's the proof. So, Where is the proof? This case Phil references seems to me could apply to illegally imported meteorites and would allow the US Gov. to seize them legally? Scary! If the No innocent owner clause does not apply to meteorites you cannot claim ignorance? . Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com wrote: I believe this is the only court case involving moon rocks: http://www.collectspace.com/news/usvmoonrock.pdf Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Upon looking at this auction again, I am now suspecting that this sample might be the real thing. That label appears to be a NASA control label specific to space materials, which in this case is the supposed moon rock. My question now is this... There appears to be a small photo of the specimen in question on this control label. If so, that would further define this specimen as authentic. Could this be a research specimen that somehow escaped government control? Something to think about. But all said, with the legal aspects of legit ownership, I would be reluctant to bid on it... Steve Schoner -- Original Message -- From: cdtuc...@cox.net To: Steve Schoner scho...@mybluelight.com, countde...@earthlink.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 12:51:48 -0500 Steve, Where is the beef Sure , we would all love to have what you have but , what is the difference between what you have and anybody else? Say, I was the king of England and my good buddy the President of the USA gave me a genuine moon rock. And he did give away plenty. I decide to sell it on EBay. Where is the law that says that is illegal? And how does that differ from what you have? Is it because you did not get caught buying yours? Why is it okay for you to buy moon material and not others? Again, show us the beef? What exactly does the law state and how do you know this? Normally , when people make statements they want to back them up with evidence? I believe you I just want to read it myself. And I'm quite sure you have piqued the interest of others as well. Yes, I am home getting my frozen pipes replaced. Waiting for the B-bash tonight. Best regards, Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Steve Schoner scho...@mybluelight.com wrote: Yes, Count, I remember that day in December two years ago when I won it. My heart was beating fast as I watched the seconds go expecting this piece of tape jumping from hundreds to thousands in the last seconds. 2 seconds before closing I placed my bid... I could not believe it... I sniped it for $451.00! (BTW: The worst time to place items on Ebay is the Holidays, it is a buyer's market and a sellers loss.) The Moon Dust tape and Documents of Authenticity from Spaceflori came on Dec 18th, 2009. I spent days after looking at this tiny piece of tape under my microscope, amazed to see the spherical glass beads, green, orange, beige glass beads, other lunar dust particles, and even a few fibers of beta cloth from the glove that Neal Armstrong wore when he picked Magazine S from the surface of the moon. As for that piece of reputed Apollo moon rock on Ebay now... As I wrote before... Even a piece reputed to be from the Apollo program can be confiscated by NASA. And the buyer should he or she win it, is not exempt from such confiscation either. The seller is on dangerous legal ground. Steve Schoner -- Original Message -- From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net To: Steve Schoner scho...@mybluelight.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: m...@miataylor.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 03:16:12 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Hi Steve and List, Thanks for posting the link to your very informative video. Congratulations on what must be one of the all time best sniping incidents on EBay. You do have the real deal. Listers might not know that the international auction house, Sothebys, auctioned dust from a Russian unmanned lunar mission. In 1970 the Soviet Union sent an automated sample-return mission to the moon and three fragments collected on this mission, weighing just 200 milligrams, were sold by Sotheby's Vice Chairman, David Redden, for $442.500.00. The sale was held in 1993, so in today's dollars we are probably talking near a million. You lucky dog. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Steve Schoner scho...@mybluelight.com Sent: Feb 3, 2011 10:10 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? As much as I know it is illegal to even present an item such as this rock on Ebay as an authentic Apollo recovered moon rock. Even if it is not, just to state that it is is enough to have it confiscated by the U.S. Government. A case in point was a recent desk mount with a pen holder that had a molded plastic transparent rock that supposedly had Apollo recovered lunar dust and sand sized rock particles in it. It was being auctioned at a major auction house and was taken down when the U.S. Government confiscated it. It was tested and from what I recall returned to the owner(s)as it could not be confirmed as authentic. And that was the end of that as a salable piece. However, the Terry Slezak Apollo 11 Moon Dust tape
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Not so and there is no need to de-label your lunars because the government might confiscate them. But... Should you re-label them as authentic Apollo 11-17 recovered lunar samples and attempt to sell them as such... Then you will have some legal issues with NASA and the law to deal with. In fact I think there was one case where a person tried this and wound up in a whole nest of legal trouble. Steve Schoner [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Michael Gilmer meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 15:33:30 EST 2011 * Previous message: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? * Next message: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] This case Phil references seems to me could apply to illegally imported meteorites and would allow the US Gov. to seize them legally? Scary! If the No innocent owner clause does not apply to meteorites you cannot claim ignorance? Simple solution to that problem - when the government shows up to look at your meteorites, pull all the labels off of them. Then they won't be able an NWA from a Texas H-chondrite. No location info, no case. Best regards, MikeG $65/Hr Job - 25 Openings Part-Time job ($20-$65/hr). Requirements: Home Internet Access http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3341/4d4c74b6d7d771cd786st02duc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Not so fast. That label is distributed freely to many equipment and material suppliers to JPL and other NASA affiliates. I received a bunch of those stickers when I was developing a fan used on the International Space Station. I now have that sticker on my telescope case. Just because he shows the stone with the label does not turn that stone into lunar material. Again, I will bet this is bogus. Cheers! tett On 04/02/2011 3:34 PM, Steve Schoner wrote: Upon looking at this auction again, I am now suspecting that this sample might be the real thing. That label appears to be a NASA control label specific to space materials, which in this case is the supposed moon rock. My question now is this... There appears to be a small photo of the specimen in question on this control label. If so, that would further define this specimen as authentic. Could this be a research specimen that somehow escaped government control? Something to think about. But all said, with the legal aspects of legit ownership, I would be reluctant to bid on it... Steve Schoner -- Original Message -- From:cdtuc...@cox.net To: Steve Schonerscho...@mybluelight.com, countde...@earthlink.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 12:51:48 -0500 Steve, Where is the beef Sure , we would all love to have what you have but , what is the difference between what you have and anybody else? Say, I was the king of England and my good buddy the President of the USA gave me a genuine moon rock. And he did give away plenty. I decide to sell it on EBay. Where is the law that says that is illegal? And how does that differ from what you have? Is it because you did not get caught buying yours? Why is it okay for you to buy moon material and not others? Again, show us the beef? What exactly does the law state and how do you know this? Normally , when people make statements they want to back them up with evidence? I believe you I just want to read it myself. And I'm quite sure you have piqued the interest of others as well. Yes, I am home getting my frozen pipes replaced. Waiting for the B-bash tonight. Best regards, Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Steve Schonerscho...@mybluelight.com wrote: Yes, Count, I remember that day in December two years ago when I won it. My heart was beating fast as I watched the seconds go expecting this piece of tape jumping from hundreds to thousands in the last seconds. 2 seconds before closing I placed my bid... I could not believe it... I sniped it for $451.00! (BTW: The worst time to place items on Ebay is the Holidays, it is a buyer's market and a sellers loss.) The Moon Dust tape and Documents of Authenticity from Spaceflori came on Dec 18th, 2009. I spent days after looking at this tiny piece of tape under my microscope, amazed to see the spherical glass beads, green, orange, beige glass beads, other lunar dust particles, and even a few fibers of beta cloth from the glove that Neal Armstrong wore when he picked Magazine S from the surface of the moon. As for that piece of reputed Apollo moon rock on Ebay now... As I wrote before... Even a piece reputed to be from the Apollo program can be confiscated by NASA. And the buyer should he or she win it, is not exempt from such confiscation either. The seller is on dangerous legal ground. Steve Schoner -- Original Message -- From: Count Deirocountde...@earthlink.net To: Steve Schonerscho...@mybluelight.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: m...@miataylor.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 03:16:12 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Hi Steve and List, Thanks for posting the link to your very informative video. Congratulations on what must be one of the all time best sniping incidents on EBay. You do have the real deal. Listers might not know that the international auction house, Sothebys, auctioned dust from a Russian unmanned lunar mission. In 1970 the Soviet Union sent an automated sample-return mission to the moon and three fragments collected on this mission, weighing just 200 milligrams, were sold by Sotheby's Vice Chairman, David Redden, for $442.500.00. The sale was held in 1993, so in today's dollars we are probably talking near a million. You lucky dog. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Steve Schonerscho...@mybluelight.com Sent: Feb 3, 2011 10:10 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? As much as I know it is illegal to even present an item such as this rock on Ebay as an authentic Apollo recovered moon rock. Even if it is not, just to state that it is is enough to have it confiscated by the U.S. Government. A case in point was a recent desk mount with a pen holder that had a molded plastic transparent rock that supposedly had Apollo
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Where is the law that says that is illegal? You can sell, whatever you want, as long as you're the legal owner of it. So you don't need a special law, because no private person - aside from the mentioned dust from the equipment of the Apollo mission - ever became legal owner of an Apollo rock. Plain simple. Skol! Martin * Previous message: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? * Next message: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Steve, Where is the beef Sure , we would all love to have what you have but , what is the difference between what you have and anybody else? Say, I was the king of England and my good buddy the President of the USA gave me a genuine moon rock. And he did give away plenty. I decide to sell it on EBay. Where is the law that says that is illegal? And how does that differ from what you have? Is it because you did not get caught buying yours? Why is it okay for you to buy moon material and not others? Again, show us the beef? What exactly does the law state and how do you know this? Normally , when people make statements they want to back them up with evidence? I believe you I just want to read it myself. And I'm quite sure you have piqued the interest of others as well. Yes, I am home getting my frozen pipes replaced. Waiting for the B-bash tonight. Best regards, Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax $65/Hr Job - 25 Openings Part-Time job ($20-$65/hr). Requirements: Home Internet Access http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3341/4d4c41386e7a71c46aest02duc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Martin, Had you been following this thread you would know that their has yet to be a court case to determine whether a private individual may or may not legally own an Apollo lunar rock. Steve and Phil have both pointed out such cases where two different people have claimed to own and tried to sell their Lunar material. One lost the case on the basis of import laws and the other on the basis that they could not analysis the rock in resin so, they still got to keep their rock. In addition I have personally seen yet another of these resin examples owned by a retired Raytheon manager. I have held it in my own hands. To bad I did not carry a camera at the time. But it does exist. It has also been stated that their are no records of these giveaways. Who knows how many of them are out there. So, there is nothing plain and simple about it. Yet. sorry. Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Where is the law that says that is illegal? You can sell, whatever you want, as long as you're the legal owner of it. So you don't need a special law, because no private person - aside from the mentioned dust from the equipment of the Apollo mission - ever became legal owner of an Apollo rock. Plain simple. Skol! Martin * Previous message: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? * Next message: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Steve, Where is the beef Sure , we would all love to have what you have but , what is the difference between what you have and anybody else? Say, I was the king of England and my good buddy the President of the USA gave me a genuine moon rock. And he did give away plenty. I decide to sell it on EBay. Where is the law that says that is illegal? And how does that differ from what you have? Is it because you did not get caught buying yours? Why is it okay for you to buy moon material and not others? Again, show us the beef? What exactly does the law state and how do you know this? Normally , when people make statements they want to back them up with evidence? I believe you I just want to read it myself. And I'm quite sure you have piqued the interest of others as well. Yes, I am home getting my frozen pipes replaced. Waiting for the B-bash tonight. Best regards, Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax $65/Hr Job - 25 Openings Part-Time job ($20-$65/hr). Requirements: Home Internet Access http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3341/4d4c41386e7a71c46aest02duc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Martin, Had you been following this thread you would know that their has yet to be a court case to determine whether a private individual may or may not legally own an Apollo lunar rock. Steve and Phil have both pointed out such cases where two different people have claimed to own and tried to sell their Lunar material. One lost the case on the basis of import laws and the other on the basis that they could not analysis the rock in resin so, they still got to keep their rock. In addition I have personally seen yet another of these resin examples owned by a retired Raytheon manager. I have held it in my own hands. To bad I did not carry a camera at the time. But it does exist. It has also been stated that their are no records of these giveaways. Who knows how many of them are out there. So, there is nothing plain and simple about it. Yet. sorry. Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Probably impossible to tell from the pictures, but what are the odds that this is truly Apollo material? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=150557455015 --Rob __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Hi Robert and List, I saw that listing last night. I'm not 100% certain, but I think it is illegal to sell such a specimen. And I think it might be illegal just to own it. And even if it's legal, there's no way to tell if it's real, based on the photos and description. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 2/3/11, Matson, Robert D. robert.d.mat...@saic.com wrote: Probably impossible to tell from the pictures, but what are the odds that this is truly Apollo material? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=150557455015 --Rob __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Is there an actual Federal, State, or Local, statute that dictates that it's illegal to own a lunar sample? Eric On 2/3/2011 3:40 PM, Michael Gilmer wrote: Hi Robert and List, I saw that listing last night. I'm not 100% certain, but I think it is illegal to sell such a specimen. And I think it might be illegal just to own it. And even if it's legal, there's no way to tell if it's real, based on the photos and description. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 2/3/11, Matson, Robert D.robert.d.mat...@saic.com wrote: Probably impossible to tell from the pictures, but what are the odds that this is truly Apollo material? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=150557455015 --Rob __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Didn't NASA have an aution some years back?... what if it turned up there? Greg S. Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 15:17:37 -0800 From: robert.d.mat...@saic.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Probably impossible to tell from the pictures, but what are the odds that this is truly Apollo material? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=150557455015 --Rob __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
of these unique artifacts. In fact, although NASA frowns on owning stolen Apollo lunar samples, there are dozens of lunar samples available for sale on eBay. A number of meteorites recovered on Earth, came from the Moon. Although most of them belong to national governments that sponsor the recovery of meteorites from Antarctica, several are in private hands and can be bought and sold, just as any commodity. Right now, there is a very nice anorthositic breccia from the lunar highlands for sale. Better hurry though – the sale only lasts another day. Oh yes, the asking price: a mere $144,000. By the way, over the years, I have been asked to look at a few “lunar” samples that were in fact, lunar fakes. Caveat Emptor! Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 18:40:06 -0500 From: meteoritem...@gmail.com To: robert.d.mat...@saic.com CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Hi Robert and List, I saw that listing last night. I'm not 100% certain, but I think it is illegal to sell such a specimen. And I think it might be illegal just to own it. And even if it's legal, there's no way to tell if it's real, based on the photos and description. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 2/3/11, Matson, Robert D. wrote: Probably impossible to tell from the pictures, but what are the odds that this is truly Apollo material? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=150557455015 --Rob __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
If the sample is real, it is an extraordinarily large one (comparatively speaking). As such, it's surprising that someone would be dumb enough to try to sell it on eBay. --Rob -Original Message- From: Thunder Stone [mailto:stanleygr...@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:42 PM To: mike; Matson, Robert D. Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? All: Appears it is illegal to own one - but as to it being real - probable? http://blogs.airspacemag.com/moon/2009/07/can-you-legally-own-a-piece-of-the-moon/ Can You Legally Own a Piece of the Moon? A Moon rock on Mt. Everest: Not for keeps Mr. Ian Sheffield of Edinburgh Scotland is miffed. He claims to have not one, but two dust samples of the Moon-one from the Apollo 11 mission and another from the Apollo 15 mission. He explains that he bought these lunar samples from a dealer about 3 years ago. The article does not indicate how much he paid for them, but he does allow that each is valued at around £2000 (about $3300) each. A problem arose when he planned to display his samples to the public. He apparently wrote to NASA asking if he could exhibit them. To his astonishment, NASA refused to give him permission and demanded the return of the samples, claiming that the lunar dust in his possession was property of the United States government. Mr. Sheffield's story of how the samples came into his possession is interesting. He states the dust came off a camera film pack to which a technician in the Lunar Receiving Laboratory was accidentally exposed. Because no one was sure the lunar samples would not contain some possible primitive (and pathogenic) organisms when the Apollo 11 crew first returned to Earth, they had to spend three weeks in quarantine. Anybody in the LRL exposed to lunar material was compelled to join the astronauts in their quarantine. The technician who was exposed went into isolation and (the story claims) upon his release, was given the dust as a memento. My antennae went up at this point. No lunar samples are given to private individuals. Each piece of the Moon returned by the Apollo astronauts is carefully accounted for and resides in the Lunar Curatorial Facility in Houston, where they are kept in two separate hurricane-proof vaults. Many lunar samples are loaned to scientific institutions for study. The only lunar samples given away (of which I am aware) were to about a hundred national leaders during President Nixon's 1969 world tour. The beautiful Space Window in the Washington National Cathedral, honoring man's landing on the Moon, holds a 7.18-gram basalt from Mare Tranquillitatis, on loan to the Cathedral. Other moon rocks were presented to the Apollo astronauts (and Walter Cronkite) in 2004. However, each plaque came with a catch: the lunar samples can not be personally held by the recipients, and must be displayed at a local school or museum. Recently, Astronaut Scott Parazynski was loaned a sample of the Moon's regolith that he carried to the summit of Mount Everest. Some diplomatic gifts of lunar samples have found their way onto the black market. A notorious case is a sample presented to the people of Honduras back in 1969. This sample turned up during a NASA Inspector General sting which was designed to catch dealers of fake lunar samples. To the agents' surprise, they were offered a genuine lunar rock: asking price, $5 million. A meeting was arranged and the rock (and presumably, the seller) was seized. Another lunar sample was stolen from a museum in Malta between 1990 and 1994; it was recovered in another sting operation in 1998. The federal government forbids private ownership of any Apollo sample. Yet, such samples show up every now and then. The most common form they take is dust stuck to adhesive tape (an easy way to clean the surface of some exposed sample container, tool, or space suit used on the lunar surface). Mr. Sheffield's sample is likely to be one of these pieces. Its status, I was surprised to find out, is legally uncertain. Although NASA has sued in court to recover any such bootleg sample, no prosecution has succeeded, except for those caught (literally) in the act of theft. In an embarrassing incident for NASA, a summer intern and two companions carried a safe full of lunar samples out of a building at Johnson Space Center (as Dave Barry would say, I am not making this up). They were apprehended while trying to sell them at bargain basement prices and subsequently prosecuted. It was rumored for years that several of the Apollo astronauts held samples from their respective missions. If they did, it was probably inadvertent-the lunar dust is extremely adhesive and it is possible that smudges of lunar dust clung to personal items returned from the Moon in their Personal Preference Kits. Alan Bean, who documents the Apollo experience through his oil paintings
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Hello Rob, et al. My opinion, this is not real. All lunar samples returned by the Apollo missions are property of the US government. None were given to engineers. The federal government did give some samples to certain other countries as a gift to the people of the country. The story about the planetary geologist sounds too stupid to be believable. NASA did hold an auction a few years ago to get rid of some old hardware but NEVER moon rocks. The story about the tape and film canister is true. I believe the technician's is Terry Slezak. This is widely known among space artifact/memorabilia collectors.. -Walter - Original Message - From: Matson, Robert D. robert.d.mat...@saic.com To: Meteorite-list List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 6:17 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Probably impossible to tell from the pictures, but what are the odds that this is truly Apollo material? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=150557455015 --Rob __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Hi Walt and List, Thanks for reminding me about the camera cartridge dust. I had forgotten about that. AFAIK, that is the only legal Apollo lunar material on the market. I've love to own one of those little pieces of tape with dust on it, but the asking price is too rich for my blood. I'll have to settle for a small micro of NWA 482. :) I guess one of us could report the auction to eBay, but I doubt they will pull the auction down. I gave up on reporting things to eBay, since they never listen to me. Best regards, MikeG PS - it's good to see you posting again Walt! :) On 2/3/11, Walter Branch waltbra...@bellsouth.net wrote: Hello Rob, et al. My opinion, this is not real. All lunar samples returned by the Apollo missions are property of the US government. None were given to engineers. The federal government did give some samples to certain other countries as a gift to the people of the country. The story about the planetary geologist sounds too stupid to be believable. NASA did hold an auction a few years ago to get rid of some old hardware but NEVER moon rocks. The story about the tape and film canister is true. I believe the technician's is Terry Slezak. This is widely known among space artifact/memorabilia collectors.. -Walter - Original Message - From: Matson, Robert D. robert.d.mat...@saic.com To: Meteorite-list List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 6:17 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Probably impossible to tell from the pictures, but what are the odds that this is truly Apollo material? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=150557455015 --Rob __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Total B.S. As soon as he wrote, I showed it to a geologist.. I knew this was fake. Cheers! Mike Tettenborn On 03/02/2011 7:52 PM, Matson, Robert D. wrote: If the sample is real, it is an extraordinarily large one (comparatively speaking). As such, it's surprising that someone would be dumb enough to try to sell it on eBay. --Rob -Original Message- From: Thunder Stone [mailto:stanleygr...@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:42 PM To: mike; Matson, Robert D. Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? All: Appears it is illegal to own one - but as to it being real - probable? http://blogs.airspacemag.com/moon/2009/07/can-you-legally-own-a-piece-of-the-moon/ Can You Legally Own a Piece of the Moon? A Moon rock on Mt. Everest: Not for keeps Mr. Ian Sheffield of Edinburgh Scotland is miffed. He claims to have not one, but two dust samples of the Moon-one from the Apollo 11 mission and another from the Apollo 15 mission. He explains that he bought these lunar samples from a dealer about 3 years ago. The article does not indicate how much he paid for them, but he does allow that each is valued at around £2000 (about $3300) each. A problem arose when he planned to display his samples to the public. He apparently wrote to NASA asking if he could exhibit them. To his astonishment, NASA refused to give him permission and demanded the return of the samples, claiming that the lunar dust in his possession was property of the United States government. Mr. Sheffield's story of how the samples came into his possession is interesting. He states the dust came off a camera film pack to which a technician in the Lunar Receiving Laboratory was accidentally exposed. Because no one was sure the lunar samples would not contain some possible primitive (and pathogenic) organisms when the Apollo 11 crew first returned to Earth, they had to spend three weeks in quarantine. Anybody in the LRL exposed to lunar material was compelled to join the astronauts in their quarantine. The technician who was exposed went into isolation and (the story claims) upon his release, was given the dust as a memento. My antennae went up at this point. No lunar samples are given to private individuals. Each piece of the Moon returned by the Apollo astronauts is carefully accounted for and resides in the Lunar Curatorial Facility in Houston, where they are kept in two separate hurricane-proof vaults. Many lunar samples are loaned to scientific institutions for study. The only lunar samples given away (of which I am aware) were to about a hundred national leaders during President Nixon's 1969 world tour. The beautiful Space Window in the Washington National Cathedral, honoring man's landing on the Moon, holds a 7.18-gram basalt from Mare Tranquillitatis, on loan to the Cathedral. Other moon rocks were presented to the Apollo astronauts (and Walter Cronkite) in 2004. However, each plaque came with a catch: the lunar samples can not be personally held by the recipients, and must be displayed at a local school or museum. Recently, Astronaut Scott Parazynski was loaned a sample of the Moon's regolith that he carried to the summit of Mount Everest. Some diplomatic gifts of lunar samples have found their way onto the black market. A notorious case is a sample presented to the people of Honduras back in 1969. This sample turned up during a NASA Inspector General sting which was designed to catch dealers of fake lunar samples. To the agents' surprise, they were offered a genuine lunar rock: asking price, $5 million. A meeting was arranged and the rock (and presumably, the seller) was seized. Another lunar sample was stolen from a museum in Malta between 1990 and 1994; it was recovered in another sting operation in 1998. The federal government forbids private ownership of any Apollo sample. Yet, such samples show up every now and then. The most common form they take is dust stuck to adhesive tape (an easy way to clean the surface of some exposed sample container, tool, or space suit used on the lunar surface). Mr. Sheffield's sample is likely to be one of these pieces. Its status, I was surprised to find out, is legally uncertain. Although NASA has sued in court to recover any such bootleg sample, no prosecution has succeeded, except for those caught (literally) in the act of theft. In an embarrassing incident for NASA, a summer intern and two companions carried a safe full of lunar samples out of a building at Johnson Space Center (as Dave Barry would say, I am not making this up). They were apprehended while trying to sell them at bargain basement prices and subsequently prosecuted. It was rumored for years that several of the Apollo astronauts held samples from their respective missions. If they did, it was probably inadvertent-the lunar dust is extremely adhesive and it is possible that smudges of lunar dust clung to personal
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Ya, I know, it should have been a meteorologist and he would have slipped through ... Murray ; ) On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 7:26 PM, tett t...@rogers.com wrote: Total B.S. As soon as he wrote, I showed it to a geologist.. I knew this was fake. Cheers! Mike Tettenborn On 03/02/2011 7:52 PM, Matson, Robert D. wrote: If the sample is real, it is an extraordinarily large one (comparatively speaking). As such, it's surprising that someone would be dumb enough to try to sell it on eBay. --Rob -Original Message- From: Thunder Stone [mailto:stanleygr...@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:42 PM To: mike; Matson, Robert D. Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? All: Appears it is illegal to own one - but as to it being real - probable? http://blogs.airspacemag.com/moon/2009/07/can-you-legally-own-a-piece-of-the-moon/ Can You Legally Own a Piece of the Moon? A Moon rock on Mt. Everest: Not for keeps Mr. Ian Sheffield of Edinburgh Scotland is miffed. He claims to have not one, but two dust samples of the Moon-one from the Apollo 11 mission and another from the Apollo 15 mission. He explains that he bought these lunar samples from a dealer about 3 years ago. The article does not indicate how much he paid for them, but he does allow that each is valued at around £2000 (about $3300) each. A problem arose when he planned to display his samples to the public. He apparently wrote to NASA asking if he could exhibit them. To his astonishment, NASA refused to give him permission and demanded the return of the samples, claiming that the lunar dust in his possession was property of the United States government. Mr. Sheffield's story of how the samples came into his possession is interesting. He states the dust came off a camera film pack to which a technician in the Lunar Receiving Laboratory was accidentally exposed. Because no one was sure the lunar samples would not contain some possible primitive (and pathogenic) organisms when the Apollo 11 crew first returned to Earth, they had to spend three weeks in quarantine. Anybody in the LRL exposed to lunar material was compelled to join the astronauts in their quarantine. The technician who was exposed went into isolation and (the story claims) upon his release, was given the dust as a memento. My antennae went up at this point. No lunar samples are given to private individuals. Each piece of the Moon returned by the Apollo astronauts is carefully accounted for and resides in the Lunar Curatorial Facility in Houston, where they are kept in two separate hurricane-proof vaults. Many lunar samples are loaned to scientific institutions for study. The only lunar samples given away (of which I am aware) were to about a hundred national leaders during President Nixon's 1969 world tour. The beautiful Space Window in the Washington National Cathedral, honoring man's landing on the Moon, holds a 7.18-gram basalt from Mare Tranquillitatis, on loan to the Cathedral. Other moon rocks were presented to the Apollo astronauts (and Walter Cronkite) in 2004. However, each plaque came with a catch: the lunar samples can not be personally held by the recipients, and must be displayed at a local school or museum. Recently, Astronaut Scott Parazynski was loaned a sample of the Moon's regolith that he carried to the summit of Mount Everest. Some diplomatic gifts of lunar samples have found their way onto the black market. A notorious case is a sample presented to the people of Honduras back in 1969. This sample turned up during a NASA Inspector General sting which was designed to catch dealers of fake lunar samples. To the agents' surprise, they were offered a genuine lunar rock: asking price, $5 million. A meeting was arranged and the rock (and presumably, the seller) was seized. Another lunar sample was stolen from a museum in Malta between 1990 and 1994; it was recovered in another sting operation in 1998. The federal government forbids private ownership of any Apollo sample. Yet, such samples show up every now and then. The most common form they take is dust stuck to adhesive tape (an easy way to clean the surface of some exposed sample container, tool, or space suit used on the lunar surface). Mr. Sheffield's sample is likely to be one of these pieces. Its status, I was surprised to find out, is legally uncertain. Although NASA has sued in court to recover any such bootleg sample, no prosecution has succeeded, except for those caught (literally) in the act of theft. In an embarrassing incident for NASA, a summer intern and two companions carried a safe full of lunar samples out of a building at Johnson Space Center (as Dave Barry would say, I am not making this up). They were apprehended while trying to sell them at bargain basement prices and subsequently prosecuted. It was rumored for years that several of the Apollo
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Hi List, No offense to geologists, but many geologists are not experienced with meteorites. Some are, some are not. I have a friend who is a geologist who worked at the Yucca Mountain complex. His knowledge is very extensive, yet I know more about meteorites than he does. We discussed this, and he told me that not all geologists extend their learning into the realm of meteorites. While all geologists know what a meteorite is, many cannot identify one or speak authoritatively on them. So, asking a geologist is better than asking a plumber, but it's not a sure thing when it comes to meteorites. It all depends on the individual geologist and what areas of expertise he/she has. Given the fact that the majority of geologists have never seen an Apollo sample first-hand, I wouldn't expect one to positively identify such a specimen from just looking at it. So, this seller's testimonial carries no weight. Does the item have any bids on it yet? Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 2/3/11, Murray Paulson murray.paul...@gmail.com wrote: Ya, I know, it should have been a meteorologist and he would have slipped through ... Murray ; ) On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 7:26 PM, tett t...@rogers.com wrote: Total B.S. As soon as he wrote, I showed it to a geologist.. I knew this was fake. Cheers! Mike Tettenborn On 03/02/2011 7:52 PM, Matson, Robert D. wrote: If the sample is real, it is an extraordinarily large one (comparatively speaking). As such, it's surprising that someone would be dumb enough to try to sell it on eBay. --Rob -Original Message- From: Thunder Stone [mailto:stanleygr...@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:42 PM To: mike; Matson, Robert D. Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? All: Appears it is illegal to own one - but as to it being real - probable? http://blogs.airspacemag.com/moon/2009/07/can-you-legally-own-a-piece-of-the-moon/ Can You Legally Own a Piece of the Moon? A Moon rock on Mt. Everest: Not for keeps Mr. Ian Sheffield of Edinburgh Scotland is miffed. He claims to have not one, but two dust samples of the Moon-one from the Apollo 11 mission and another from the Apollo 15 mission. He explains that he bought these lunar samples from a dealer about 3 years ago. The article does not indicate how much he paid for them, but he does allow that each is valued at around £2000 (about $3300) each. A problem arose when he planned to display his samples to the public. He apparently wrote to NASA asking if he could exhibit them. To his astonishment, NASA refused to give him permission and demanded the return of the samples, claiming that the lunar dust in his possession was property of the United States government. Mr. Sheffield's story of how the samples came into his possession is interesting. He states the dust came off a camera film pack to which a technician in the Lunar Receiving Laboratory was accidentally exposed. Because no one was sure the lunar samples would not contain some possible primitive (and pathogenic) organisms when the Apollo 11 crew first returned to Earth, they had to spend three weeks in quarantine. Anybody in the LRL exposed to lunar material was compelled to join the astronauts in their quarantine. The technician who was exposed went into isolation and (the story claims) upon his release, was given the dust as a memento. My antennae went up at this point. No lunar samples are given to private individuals. Each piece of the Moon returned by the Apollo astronauts is carefully accounted for and resides in the Lunar Curatorial Facility in Houston, where they are kept in two separate hurricane-proof vaults. Many lunar samples are loaned to scientific institutions for study. The only lunar samples given away (of which I am aware) were to about a hundred national leaders during President Nixon's 1969 world tour. The beautiful Space Window in the Washington National Cathedral, honoring man's landing on the Moon, holds a 7.18-gram basalt from Mare Tranquillitatis, on loan to the Cathedral. Other moon rocks were presented to the Apollo astronauts (and Walter Cronkite) in 2004. However, each plaque came with a catch: the lunar samples can not be personally held by the recipients, and must be displayed at a local school or museum. Recently, Astronaut Scott Parazynski was loaned a sample of the Moon's regolith that he carried
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Hello, All, All things considered, this auctioneer is either auctioning stolen property or is blatantly committing fraud, since respectively he could not have come into possession of Apollo material legitimately or is simply a liar. And, anyone buying the material is a fool. Cheers, Pete From: waltbra...@bellsouth.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 20:29:41 -0500 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Hello Rob, et al. My opinion, this is not real. All lunar samples returned by the Apollo missions are property of the US government. None were given to engineers. The federal government did give some samples to certain other countries as a gift to the people of the country. The story about the planetary geologist sounds too stupid to be believable. NASA did hold an auction a few years ago to get rid of some old hardware but NEVER moon rocks. The story about the tape and film canister is true. I believe the technician's is Terry Slezak. This is widely known among space artifact/memorabilia collectors.. -Walter - Original Message - From: Matson, Robert D. To: Meteorite-list List Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 6:17 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Probably impossible to tell from the pictures, but what are the odds that this is truly Apollo material? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=150557455015 --Rob __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Hi all! I studied geology (back when plate-tectonics was still an interesting theory ) and there was absolutely zero mention of meteorites or even lunar materials. But now that I've gotten meteorites in the blood I find that my old professors and colleagues find these very interesting . I currently work in an academic metallurgy lab and there are several faculty that are totally enthralled in meteorites (even though their main research interest might be stainless steels or brasses.). So I agree that most geologists wouldn't know a moon rock. Rob Rob Holcomb ... PO Box 1306 650-223-4757 ... Palo Alto, CA 94302 -- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 7:08 PM To: Murray Paulson murray.paul...@gmail.com Cc: tett t...@rogers.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? Hi List, No offense to geologists, but many geologists are not experienced with meteorites. Some are, some are not. I have a friend who is a geologist who worked at the Yucca Mountain complex. His knowledge is very extensive, yet I know more about meteorites than he does. We discussed this, and he told me that not all geologists extend their learning into the realm of meteorites. While all geologists know what a meteorite is, many cannot identify one or speak authoritatively on them. So, asking a geologist is better than asking a plumber, but it's not a sure thing when it comes to meteorites. It all depends on the individual geologist and what areas of expertise he/she has. Given the fact that the majority of geologists have never seen an Apollo sample first-hand, I wouldn't expect one to positively identify such a specimen from just looking at it. So, this seller's testimonial carries no weight. Does the item have any bids on it yet? Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 2/3/11, Murray Paulson murray.paul...@gmail.com wrote: Ya, I know, it should have been a meteorologist and he would have slipped through ... Murray ; ) On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 7:26 PM, tett t...@rogers.com wrote: Total B.S. As soon as he wrote, I showed it to a geologist.. I knew this was fake. Cheers! Mike Tettenborn On 03/02/2011 7:52 PM, Matson, Robert D. wrote: If the sample is real, it is an extraordinarily large one (comparatively speaking). As such, it's surprising that someone would be dumb enough to try to sell it on eBay. --Rob -Original Message- From: Thunder Stone [mailto:stanleygr...@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:42 PM To: mike; Matson, Robert D. Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? All: Appears it is illegal to own one - but as to it being real - probable? http://blogs.airspacemag.com/moon/2009/07/can-you-legally-own-a-piece-of-the-moon/ Can You Legally Own a Piece of the Moon? A Moon rock on Mt. Everest: Not for keeps Mr. Ian Sheffield of Edinburgh Scotland is miffed. He claims to have not one, but two dust samples of the Moon-one from the Apollo 11 mission and another from the Apollo 15 mission. He explains that he bought these lunar samples from a dealer about 3 years ago. The article does not indicate how much he paid for them, but he does allow that each is valued at around £2000 (about $3300) each. A problem arose when he planned to display his samples to the public. He apparently wrote to NASA asking if he could exhibit them. To his astonishment, NASA refused to give him permission and demanded the return of the samples, claiming that the lunar dust in his possession was property of the United States government. Mr. Sheffield's story of how the samples came into his possession is interesting. He states the dust came off a camera film pack to which a technician in the Lunar Receiving Laboratory was accidentally exposed. Because no one was sure the lunar samples would not contain some possible primitive (and pathogenic) organisms when the Apollo 11 crew first returned to Earth, they had to spend three weeks in quarantine. Anybody in the LRL exposed to lunar material was compelled to join the astronauts in their quarantine. The technician who was exposed went into isolation and (the story claims) upon his release, was given the dust as a memento. My antennae went up at this point. No lunar samples are given to private individuals. Each piece of the Moon returned
Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
As much as I know it is illegal to even present an item such as this rock on Ebay as an authentic Apollo recovered moon rock. Even if it is not, just to state that it is is enough to have it confiscated by the U.S. Government. A case in point was a recent desk mount with a pen holder that had a molded plastic transparent rock that supposedly had Apollo recovered lunar dust and sand sized rock particles in it. It was being auctioned at a major auction house and was taken down when the U.S. Government confiscated it. It was tested and from what I recall returned to the owner(s)as it could not be confirmed as authentic. And that was the end of that as a salable piece. However, the Terry Slezak Apollo 11 Moon Dust tape IS authentic. And as much as I know it is the only Apollo 11 lunar material that is available for the public to own. The entire poster board with the Moon dust tape,some foil from the Apollo 11, the label from Magazine S that Armstrong dropped, a note that Buzz Aldrin wrote on the moon, and the Apollo 11 crew signatures, was included in an auction that Mr. Florian Noller won sometime in 2001. This tape was then sectioned into small triangles, each having particles of moon dust on them, which he then sold under his company Spaceflori. It is the real deal. I know because I won one of these Apollo Moon Dust tape presentations on Ebay a few years ago. I could not believe the low price I won it at. It was a real loss to the seller, but he honored the deal. I remember that it was brought up on this MetList and there was much doubt of it's authenticity. But I knew otherwise, having previously followed the sale of the Slezak tape in a Space artifacts auction held 2001. Under a high power microscope there is no doubt in my mind that it is the real thing. I communicated with Mr. Noller in Germany and he remembered the person that I obtained it from. He was amazed at the low price that I obtained it in the Ebay auction, stating that Ebay is not the place to auction such artifacts. Here is my Apollo 11 Moon Dust tape--- the real deal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C3lPlmpoKo But... As for the suspected Apollo moon rock being offered on Ebay. If NASA finds out about the auction it will be taken down by court order if Ebay refuses. That I do know. Steve Schoner It was in fact proven to have been presented to Mr. Slezak Message: 12 Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 20:35:21 -0500 From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay? To: Walter Branch waltbra...@bellsouth.net Cc: Meteorite-list List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: aanlktim8gv1m7mlqlfyhim1qxyp6_pkb6obij10w4...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Walt and List, Thanks for reminding me about the camera cartridge dust. I had forgotten about that. AFAIK, that is the only legal Apollo lunar material on the market. I've love to own one of those little pieces of tape with dust on it, but the asking price is too rich for my blood. I'll have to settle for a small micro of NWA 482. :) I guess one of us could report the auction to eBay, but I doubt they will pull the auction down. I gave up on reporting things to eBay, since they never listen to me. Best regards, MikeG 1 Simple Form: Up to 4 Offers! Refi to low APR before rates rise. $200,000 for $857/mo. No SSN required. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3341/4d4b987b61fdf1be5a3st01duc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Free Moon Trip
Here is a link to Dr E. A. King's book Moon Trip: A Personal Account of the Apollo Program and its Science It's a free download from The Lunar and Planetary Institute's website http://www.lpi.usra.edu/publications/books/moonTrip/index.shtml Dr. King was a Harvard graduate and a geologist at the University of Houston who specialized in meteorites. He trained Apollo astronauts and was the first curator of the Lunar Sample Laboratory while working at NASA. Chapter IV is a fun read on Tektites and Meteorites Here is an excerpt: “….While unsuccessfully searching for a meteorite fall close to Crosby, Texas, I heard on the car radio about a very bright fireball witnessed in southern New Mexico, Texas, and northern Mexico. I returned to my office and asked my secretary, who was fluent in Spanish, to place some phone calls for me. I first contacted a news- paper editor in Chihuahua City. We had a lengthy conversation about the phenomena accompanying the meteorite fall but no speci-mens had fallen near Chihuahua City. Finally, I asked him the right question: Do you know anyone who has any pieces of the meteorite? Oh yes, he said, and suggested that I call the newspaper editor in Hidalgo del Parral, much further to the south. My secretary located Sr. Ruben Rocha Chavez, editor of Correo del Parral. He recounted how a brilliant fireball had broken apart with a loud explosion in the middle of the night and had showered fragments over a large area near Parral. Chavez had several pieces of the meteorite on his desk and described them to me. There was no doubt- he had fragments of a freshly fallen stony meteorite! He invited me to visit Parral to see his pieces and to collect specimens. I thanked him for the information and his invitation and told him I would be there as soon as possible. A quick check of airline schedules showed it was not going to be easy to get to Parral…… ….I was astonished when I saw the two big meteorite pieces on the editor's desk. One weighed more than 30 pounds. The greatest surprise was the meteorite type---a rare carbonaceous chondrite…. There are also additional books available for free - http://www.lpi.usra.edu/publications/books.shtml I haven't kept up with all the posts in a while - excuse this duplicate if this was recently mentioned John __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] FREE Moon Rock and Mars Rock Set! (NWA 4734 and SAU 005)
Hi List! I've gotten myself into a jam and I need to make a quick sale. The next buyer who purchases $90 or more will receive a free Moon Rock and Mars Rock display set. These are exclusive displays only available at Galactic Stone Meteorites. Each display features full-color, retro-themed, sci-fi artwork with a meteorite sample inside a Riker box. You can see them here - Moon - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/moon-rock-exclusive-retro-art-lunar-meteorite-display Mars - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/mars-rock-retro-art-martian-meteorite-display-dag-476 You can use your Met-List discount coupon in conjunction with this offer, but the total order amount must be $90 or more after taking the discount. Use coupon code metlist at checkout to get the discount. This offer is only good for the first buyer who qualifies. I will contact that buyer by email. Thanks for looking! MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Moon - One Titanic Tektite?
Hi Sterling and List, That is something I had not considered - the glassy nature of a tektite. So, since the moon is not a tektite, could it be a big impactite? Best regards, MikeG On 4/14/10, Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: A tektite is GLASS, not rock. The Moon is ROCK, not glass. I just ruined my reputation for writing long- winded posts. Oh, wait, I don't want to do that. Glass is molten (or vaporized) rock that cools too quickly to reform in a crystal mineral structure. Glass has been classified as an amorphous liquid by most. Since a relatively rapid cooling is required to make a glass, there is an upper limit to the size of a melt. A large body, astronomically large, could never cool that quickly. You could get a very odd rock body with a glass crust, quite unlike the Moon. Actual tektites have extremely high silica (silicon dioxide) content; the Moon does not (by comparison to tektites). The elemental bulk compositions of the Moon and of tektites is quite different. The elemental bulk compositions of tektites vaguely matches a few terrestrial soils if you allow for a lot of differential loss by volatilization of some of the elements. Turning a rock or soil or sand into a glass effectively erases a great deal of information about the source material, which is why people have been arguing about tektites for 220 years and it shows little sign of stopping. And my last argument: if the Moon was a tektite, it would be for sale on eBay, probably for its mystic properties. Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 10:14 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] The Moon - One Titanic Tektite? Hi Listees, I don't know if this thought has ever come up before in this way, but Isn't the moon, by definition, one gigantic tektite since it was spalled off from the Earth during a catastrophic meteorite impact? If so, then every lunar meteorite is also a tektite.of sorts. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] The Moon - One Titanic Tektite?
Hi Listees, I don't know if this thought has ever come up before in this way, but Isn't the moon, by definition, one gigantic tektite since it was spalled off from the Earth during a catastrophic meteorite impact? If so, then every lunar meteorite is also a tektite.of sorts. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Moon - One Titanic Tektite?
Mike and list An interesting thought, but the moon is not made of glass so it would have to be one giant impact spherule! Also it hasn't landed back on Earth yet! It can't be an -ite. It was pointed out to me that you have Meteorites and Meteors. But in the tektite world we only have Tektites, no Tekteors - just as well we haven't witnessed any genuine tektite falls (don't believe everything you read) or we wouldn't know what to call the falling body! Aubrey www.tektites.co.uk --- On Wed, 14/4/10, Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Subject: [meteorite-list] The Moon - One Titanic Tektite? To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Wednesday, 14 April, 2010, 4:14 Hi Listees, I don't know if this thought has ever come up before in this way, but Isn't the moon, by definition, one gigantic tektite since it was spalled off from the Earth during a catastrophic meteorite impact? If so, then every lunar meteorite is also a tektite.of sorts. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Moon - One Titanic Tektite?
A tektite is GLASS, not rock. The Moon is ROCK, not glass. I just ruined my reputation for writing long- winded posts. Oh, wait, I don't want to do that. Glass is molten (or vaporized) rock that cools too quickly to reform in a crystal mineral structure. Glass has been classified as an amorphous liquid by most. Since a relatively rapid cooling is required to make a glass, there is an upper limit to the size of a melt. A large body, astronomically large, could never cool that quickly. You could get a very odd rock body with a glass crust, quite unlike the Moon. Actual tektites have extremely high silica (silicon dioxide) content; the Moon does not (by comparison to tektites). The elemental bulk compositions of the Moon and of tektites is quite different. The elemental bulk compositions of tektites vaguely matches a few terrestrial soils if you allow for a lot of differential loss by volatilization of some of the elements. Turning a rock or soil or sand into a glass effectively erases a great deal of information about the source material, which is why people have been arguing about tektites for 220 years and it shows little sign of stopping. And my last argument: if the Moon was a tektite, it would be for sale on eBay, probably for its mystic properties. Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 10:14 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] The Moon - One Titanic Tektite? Hi Listees, I don't know if this thought has ever come up before in this way, but Isn't the moon, by definition, one gigantic tektite since it was spalled off from the Earth during a catastrophic meteorite impact? If so, then every lunar meteorite is also a tektite.of sorts. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Pack Moon
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/03/30/wocka-wocka-wocka-mimas-wocka-wocka/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] The Moon on Everest.
On May 20. 2009 Astronaut Scott Parazynski summited Mt Everest. NASA allowed him to carry a specimen of the moon brought back on Apollo 11 to the top of the world. The Discovery channel has started airing the third season of Everest, Beyond the Limit and Scotts story will air again on the Discovery Channel Dec 30 at 8pm Eastern US time. I have seen the segment and it is certainly worth watching. Photo of Scott holding the Apollo 11 sample on Everest: http://blogs.discovery.com/.a/6a00d8341bf67c53ef01156fba58c9970c-pi Scott's Blog written last Spring: http://onorbit.com/node/1047 Everest, Beyond the Limit on the Discovery Channel website: http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/everestbeyond/everestbeyond.html Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com/ On eBay: http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPageuserid=catchafallingstar.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Celebrated Moon Rocks
http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Dec09/Apollo-lunar-samples.html Celebrated Moon Rocks Planetary Science Research Discoveries December 21, 2009 --- Overview and status of the Apollo lunar collection: A unique, but limited, resource of extraterrestrial material. Written by Linda M. V. Martel Hawaii Institute of Geophysics and Planetology The Need for Lunar Samples and Simulants: Where Engineering and Science Meet sums up one of the sessions attracting attention at the annual meeting of the Lunar Exploration Analysis Group (LEAG), held November 16-19, 2009 in Houston, Texas. Speakers addressed the question of how the Apollo lunar samples can be used to facilitate NASA's return to the Moon while preserving the collection for scientific investigation. Here is a summary of the LEAG presentations of Dr. Gary Lofgren, Lunar Curator at the NASA Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas, and Dr. Meenakshi (Mini) Wadhwa, Professor at Arizona State University and Chair of NASA's advisory committee called CAPTEM (Curation and Analysis Planning Team for Extraterrestrial Materials). Lofgren gave a status report of the collection of rocks and regolith returned to Earth by the Apollo astronauts from six different landing sites on the Moon in 1969-1972. Wadhwa explained the role of CAPTEM in lunar sample allocation. References: * Lunar Exploration Analysis Group (LEAG) Annual Meeting Agenda http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/leag2009/presentations/index.shtml, November 16-19, 2009. * Lunar Sample Compendium http://www-curator.jsc.nasa.gov/lunar/compendium.cfm. The Collection of Lunar Samples from Apollo Missions The six Apollo missions that landed astronauts on the Moon returned a collection of rock and soil samples weighing approximately 382 kilograms (842 pounds) and consisting of 2,196 separate samples. Today there are more than 110,000 individually numbered subsamples (split, chipped or sawed pieces) available to investigators for detailed studies. The collection also includes 16.5 meters (54 feet) of core samples pulled from the top of the lunar regolith. (The fine-grained, fragmental, loose material blanketing the Moon is most commonly referred to as soil but it has none of the organic sediment component as on Earth. The more precise term is regolith. The number of samples increased as the missions progressed, as shown in the table below. Click on the emblems for more information about the missions from NASA. Apollo Mission 11 12 14 15 16 17Total Number of samples: 58 69 227 370 731 741 2196 Weight in kilograms:21.834.342.377.395.7110.5 381.7 These missions, the astronauts, the thousands of people who worked to make the missions possible, and the lunar samples brought back to Earth were celebrated worldwide. Today NASA continues to take charge of the curation and allocation of the Apollo lunar samples. The specially-built Lunar Sample Laboratory Facility, 30 years old this year, is a class 10K clean room (no more than 10,000 particles 0.5-micron size per cubic foot of air inside the laboratory). It is housed in a special building at the Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas. Workers wear clean coveralls, hats, gloves, and shoe covers to minimize contamination. Meticulous facilities and strict handling procedures ensure the continued scientific integrity of the Apollo lunar samples for the needs of the research and engineering communities today and into the future. About 70% of the total weight of Apollo lunar samples is located in the Lunar Sample Laboratory's pristine sample vault. Pristine lunar samples (those continuously in NASA custody since return from the Moon) are stored in multiple layers of packaging in cabinets organized by mission. They are handled in stainless-steel glove cabinets purged by high-purity nitrogen gas, which is relatively non-reactive, in an environment monitored continuously for oxygen and moisture contents to minimize degradation of the samples or chemical reaction with air. Approximately 8% of the total weight of the collection is stored in the returned sample vault. These are samples lent to authorized researchers and returned to NASA. They are re-inventoried as returned because these samples were exposed to air when they were located in the investigators' laboratories. The samples are individually bagged, tagged, and are made available again for other research projects when contamination is less of a concern. Another 13% of the total weight is stored in the Brooks Air Force Base remote storage facility, which was completed in 2002. This representative sampling of the collection is stored at the second location to ensure the entire collection would not be lost in the event of a major hurricane or other catastrophe at Johnson Space Center. The other 9% of the total weight of lunar
[meteorite-list] NASA Moon Impactor Successfully Completes Lunar Maneuver (LCROSS)
June 23, 2009 Ashley Edwards/Grey Hautaluoma Headquarters, Washington 202-358-1756/0668 ashley.edward...@nasa.gov, grey.hautaluom...@nasa.gov Jonas Dino Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif. 650-207-3280 jonas.d...@nasa.gov RELEASE: 09-145 NASA MOON IMPACTOR SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETES LUNAR MANEUVER MOFFETT FIELD, Calif. -- The Lunar Crater Observation and Sensing Satellite, or LCROSS, successfully completed its most significant early mission milestone Tuesday with a lunar swingby and calibration of its science instruments. The satellite will search for water ice in a permanently shadowed crater at the moon's south pole. With the assist of the moon's gravity, LCROSS and its attached Centaur booster rocket successfully entered into polar Earth orbit at 6:20 a.m. PDT on June 23. The maneuver puts the spacecraft and Centaur on course for a pair of impacts near the moon's south pole on Oct. 9. The successful completion of the LCROSS swingby proves the science instruments are functioning as expected. It is a testament to the hard work and dedication of the entire team said Dan Andrews, LCROSS project manager at NASA's Ames Research Center at Moffett Field, Calif. We are elated at the results from the maneuver and eagerly anticipate the impacts in early October. During its swing by the moon, the spacecraft's instruments were turned on and calibrated by scanning three sites on the lunar surface. These sites were the craters Mendeleev, Goddard C and Giordano Bruno. They were selected because they offer a variety of terrain types, compositions and illumination conditions. The spacecraft also scanned the lunar horizon to confirm its instruments are aligned in preparation for observing the Centaur's debris plume. Each instrument returned good data that the science team will spend the next few weeks analyzing, said Anthony Colaprete, LCROSS project scientist at Ames. These data will ensure we are as prepared as possible for monitoring and interpreting data we receive during impact. LCROSS and its attached Centaur upper stage rocket are now in a long, looping polar orbit around Earth and the moon. Each orbit will be roughly perpendicular to the moon's orbit around Earth and take about 37 days to complete. Before impact, the spacecraft and Centaur will make approximately three orbits. LCROSS and the Centaur separately will collide with the moon at approximately 7:30 a.m. EDT on Oct. 9, creating a pair of debris plumes that will be analyzed for the presence of water ice or water vapor, hydrocarbons and hydrated materials. The spacecraft and Centaur are targeted to impact the moon's south pole near the Cabeus region. The exact target crater will be identified 30 days before impact, after considering information collected by NASA's Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter and observatories on Earth. Nine hours before impact, about 54,000 miles above the surface, LCROSS and the Centaur will separate. LCROSS will spin 180 degrees to turn its science payload toward the moon and fire thrusters to create distance from the Centaur. The spacecraft will observe the flash from the Centaur's impact and fly through the debris plume. Data will be collected and streamed to Earth for analysis. Four minutes later, LCROSS also will impact, creating a second debris plume. The LCROSS mission is providing mission updates on Twitter at: http://www.twitter.com/lcross_nasa For more information about NASA's LCROSS mission, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/lcross -end- __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Newfound Moon May Be Source of Outer Saturn Ring
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-035 Newfound Moon May Be Source of Outer Saturn Ring Jet Propulsion Laboratory March 03, 2009 NASA's Cassini spacecraft has found within Saturn's G ring an embedded moonlet that appears as a faint, moving pinprick of light. Scientists believe it is a main source of the G ring and its single ring arc. Cassini imaging scientists analyzing images acquired over the course of about 600 days found the tiny moonlet, half a kilometer (about a third of a mile) across, embedded within a partial ring, or ring arc, previously found by Cassini in Saturn's tenuous G ring. The finding is being announced today in an International Astronomical Union circular. Images can be found at http://www.nasa.gov/cassini, http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov and http://ciclops.org . Before Cassini, the G ring was the only dusty ring that was not clearly associated with a known moon, which made it odd, said Matthew Hedman, a Cassini imaging team associate at Cornell University in Ithaca, N.Y. The discovery of this moonlet, together with other Cassini data, should help us make sense of this previously mysterious ring. Saturn's rings were named in the order they were discovered. Working outward they are: D, C, B, A, F, G and E. The G ring is one of the outer diffuse rings. Within the faint G ring there is a relatively bright and narrow, 250-kilometer-wide (150-miles) arc of ring material, which extends 150,000 kilometers (90,000 miles), or one-sixth of the way around the ring's circumference. The moonlet moves within this ring arc. Previous Cassini plasma and dust measurements indicated that this partial ring may be produced from relatively large, icy particles embedded within the arc, such as this moonlet. Scientists imaged the moonlet on Aug. 15, 2008, and then they confirmed its presence by finding it in two earlier images. They have since seen the moonlet on multiple occasions, most recently on Feb. 20, 2009. The moonlet is too small to be resolved by Cassini's cameras, so its size cannot be measured directly. However, Cassini scientists estimated the moonlet's size by comparing its brightness to another small Saturnian moon, Pallene. Hedman and his collaborators also have found that the moonlet's orbit is being disturbed by the larger, nearby moon Mimas, which is responsible for keeping the ring arc together. This brings the number of Saturnian ring arcs with embedded moonlets found by Cassini to three. The new moonlet may not be alone in the G ring arc. Previous measurements with other Cassini instruments implied the existence of a population of particles, possibly ranging in size from 1 to 100 meters (about three to several hundred feet) across. Meteoroid impacts into, and collisions among, these bodies and the moonlet could liberate dust to form the arc, said Hedman. Carl Murray, a Cassini imaging team member and professor at Queen Mary, University of London, said, The moon's discovery and the disturbance of its trajectory by the neighboring moon Mimas highlight the close association between moons and rings that we see throughout the Saturn system. Hopefully, we will learn in the future more about how such arcs form and interact with their parent bodies. Early next year, Cassini's camera will take a closer look at the arc and the moonlet. The Cassini Equinox mission, an extension of the original four-year mission, is expected to continue until fall of 2010. The Cassini-Huygens mission is a cooperative project of NASA, the European Space Agency and the Italian Space Agency. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, manages the Cassini-Huygens mission for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington. The Cassini orbiter and its two onboard cameras were designed, developed and assembled at JPL. The imaging team is based at the Space Science Institute, Boulder, Colo. Media contacts: Carolina Martinez 818-354-9382 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. carolina.marti...@jpl.nasa.gov Joe Mason 720-974-5859 Space Science Institute, Boulder, Colo. me...@ciclops.org 2009-035 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD : Moon and Mars Combo Kits
Hi Meteorite Listees! I am offering Lunar and Martian meteorite display kits for $75 (this price includes CONUS shipping). These are the nice little Moon Rock and Mars Rock boxes you commonly see on the market for $35-$50 each. I have taken one of each and placed them in small Riker box for better display. The lunar meteorite is NWA 4734 (Mare Basalt) and the Martian is NWA 4925 (shergottite). Each specimen is guaranteed to weigh between 7mg and 15mg and the background photo may vary from that shown in the photo I have linked below. I have a selection of background photos to choose from. Asking price of $75 includes Riker box, a freebie bag of UNWA wind-polished pebbles (for stocking stuffers), and shipping to anywhere in the CONUS. Canadian or Overseas shipping is $10 extra. I can only take PayPal as payment - sorry, no checks or money orders. Photo of the Moon/Mars Rock Combo kit : http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/April%20Sale/2-planet-kit.jpg To inquire or order, contact me offlist at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks for looking! MikeG . Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] MARTIAN MOON NAMES... AGAIN
Sterling, All these years my brain has recited Phobos-and-Deimos-fear-and-panic. This is since Saturn had three rings and Jupiter had twelve moons. Demoting Pluto was easy but now Deimos and Phobos, Fear and Flight? Ouch. Great research. A Sterling job! - John John Kashuba Ontario, California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sterling K. Webb Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 4:39 PM To: Meteorite List Cc: Kashuba Subject: [meteorite-list] MARTIAN MOON NAMES... AGAIN Hi, Darren, John, Larry, List This is so typical. I'm here to completely reverse my position on the English meaning of the names of the Martian moons that I posted yesterday. The IAU / USGS website with them: http://planetarynames.wr.usgs.gov/append7.html is probably correct and the best resolution of the question. I've continued to research the question. I have discovered that I was wrong about some things (no big surprise there). I have the habit of shooting off my mouth about what I think I know and discovering it to be mistaken. I was sure Iliad xv, 119 had Phobos, Deimos in that order, and... yes, wrong again. The Iliad, Chap 15, lines 113-120, transliterated into Romanic characters: hôs ephat', autar Arês thalerô peplêgeto mêrô chersi kataprêness', olophuromenos d' epos êuda: mê nun moi nemesêset' Olumpia dômat' echontes 115 tisasthai phonon huios iont' epi nêas Achaiôn, ei per moi kai moira Dios plêgenti keraunôi keisthai homou nekuessi meth' haimati kai koniêisin. hôs phato, kai rh' hippous keleto Deimon te Phobon te zeugnumen, autos d' ente' eduseto pamphanoônta. 120 If the characters don't come up right in the email, just go to: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0133 layout=loc=15.119 You can switch the display to the Greek characters if you want to. I was dead wrong. Homer gives Deimos, Phobos in that order, which Bryant translated as Fear, Flight, in that order, which Hall chose, in that order, to be the English names of Deimus, Phobus, which he discovered, in that order (despite the greater magnitude of Phobos). SO, if the deciding criterion is the nominative intent of the discoverer Hall, the English names on the IAU / USGS website are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! The question is not a definitive source, but a definitive or deciding criterion. There are some choices: 1. The intent of the discoverer and the exercise of the naming right in a case of a name of pre-IAU origin and undisputed at the time. In this case, it would be what is currently on the webpage. 2. The linguistic heritage of a loan-word or root in any given language. There's no doubt English has accepted the Greek phobos as a root for Fear, at this point in time. This is unlikely to change, as we're likely to continue to have phobias! On the other hand, deimos has not been borrowed into English, so there is no obvious choice for it. The English phobia postdates Hall's naming. We didn't have phobias until the psychiatric revolution of the early twentieth century. If you didn't like standing on the edge of a cliff or being locked in a closet, you were just a scaredy-cat, not phobic. You were teased, not drugged, enrolled in a support group, made special. 3. Accepted Usage is another possible criterion. But we see that the usage of translators of Ancient Greek is all over the map, all of the time. But there's also the Accepted Professional Usage of astronomers who, for almost a century have been writing textbooks, the vast majority of which have translated Phobos as Fear and Deimos as something else! Panic, Terror, Dread, Flight, Rout... you name it, and occasionally re-naming Phobos, too. Doesn't seem that any of these astronomers ever objected to what the others were doing in the name-translation game, either. It was essentially a free-for-all. The problem is that there's nothing settled here; in both cases, the name translations can vary at will and at any time. Nomenclature is not supposed to work that way. The three criteria all have advantages and disadvantages. No. 2 is bad because it's indecisive about Deimos, so it doesn't apply to the whole case. No. 3 is bad because it is subject to change. In the case of adopting current Ancient Greek-to-English translation preferences, it will change constantly, or at least a three times a century. In the case of professional usage, it is clear about Phobos and vague about Deimos, just like No. 2, so it settles nothing. It was a partial free-for-all, and that is problem. Astronomers didn't settle it. They had their chance and didn't think it was important enough to pin it down. That leaves No. 1, which has a clear-cut rationale, based on a clear-cut principle, and produces a result that is fixed. If it is the criterion that applies, the matter of the meaning of the names in English is done, over, permanent, will never change, move along, there's nothing to see here
[meteorite-list] MARTIAN MOON NAMES... AGAIN
Hi, Darren, John, Larry, List This is so typical. I'm here to completely reverse my position on the English meaning of the names of the Martian moons that I posted yesterday. The IAU / USGS website with them: http://planetarynames.wr.usgs.gov/append7.html is probably correct and the best resolution of the question. I've continued to research the question. I have discovered that I was wrong about some things (no big surprise there). I have the habit of shooting off my mouth about what I think I know and discovering it to be mistaken. I was sure Iliad xv, 119 had Phobos, Deimos in that order, and... yes, wrong again. The Iliad, Chap 15, lines 113-120, transliterated into Romanic characters: hôs ephat', autar Arês thalerô peplêgeto mêrô chersi kataprêness', olophuromenos d' epos êuda: mê nun moi nemesêset' Olumpia dômat' echontes 115 tisasthai phonon huios iont' epi nêas Achaiôn, ei per moi kai moira Dios plêgenti keraunôi keisthai homou nekuessi meth' haimati kai koniêisin. hôs phato, kai rh' hippous keleto Deimon te Phobon te zeugnumen, autos d' ente' eduseto pamphanoônta. 120 If the characters don't come up right in the email, just go to: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0133layout=loc=15.119 You can switch the display to the Greek characters if you want to. I was dead wrong. Homer gives Deimos, Phobos in that order, which Bryant translated as Fear, Flight, in that order, which Hall chose, in that order, to be the English names of Deimus, Phobus, which he discovered, in that order (despite the greater magnitude of Phobos). SO, if the deciding criterion is the nominative intent of the discoverer Hall, the English names on the IAU / USGS website are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! The question is not a definitive source, but a definitive or deciding criterion. There are some choices: 1. The intent of the discoverer and the exercise of the naming right in a case of a name of pre-IAU origin and undisputed at the time. In this case, it would be what is currently on the webpage. 2. The linguistic heritage of a loan-word or root in any given language. There's no doubt English has accepted the Greek phobos as a root for Fear, at this point in time. This is unlikely to change, as we're likely to continue to have phobias! On the other hand, deimos has not been borrowed into English, so there is no obvious choice for it. The English phobia postdates Hall's naming. We didn't have phobias until the psychiatric revolution of the early twentieth century. If you didn't like standing on the edge of a cliff or being locked in a closet, you were just a scaredy-cat, not phobic. You were teased, not drugged, enrolled in a support group, made special. 3. Accepted Usage is another possible criterion. But we see that the usage of translators of Ancient Greek is all over the map, all of the time. But there's also the Accepted Professional Usage of astronomers who, for almost a century have been writing textbooks, the vast majority of which have translated Phobos as Fear and Deimos as something else! Panic, Terror, Dread, Flight, Rout... you name it, and occasionally re-naming Phobos, too. Doesn't seem that any of these astronomers ever objected to what the others were doing in the name-translation game, either. It was essentially a free-for-all. The problem is that there's nothing settled here; in both cases, the name translations can vary at will and at any time. Nomenclature is not supposed to work that way. The three criteria all have advantages and disadvantages. No. 2 is bad because it's indecisive about Deimos, so it doesn't apply to the whole case. No. 3 is bad because it is subject to change. In the case of adopting current Ancient Greek-to-English translation preferences, it will change constantly, or at least a three times a century. In the case of professional usage, it is clear about Phobos and vague about Deimos, just like No. 2, so it settles nothing. It was a partial free-for-all, and that is problem. Astronomers didn't settle it. They had their chance and didn't think it was important enough to pin it down. That leaves No. 1, which has a clear-cut rationale, based on a clear-cut principle, and produces a result that is fixed. If it is the criterion that applies, the matter of the meaning of the names in English is done, over, permanent, will never change, move along, there's nothing to see here... So, I've done a complete flip-flop. They should leave the website the way it is. They've done the right thing. If a man persist in error long enough, he will find the truth of it. (I'm sure somebody said that, and if not, someone should have.) And... that is what the IAU Nomenclature is all about, isn't it? Settle the matter. Fix the name permanently. Stop quibbling. Move on. The only disadvantage of No. 1 is that they will get these quibbling emails afterwards... for years. Now, I'm telling everybody that I told that I
[meteorite-list] Saturn's Moon Titan Has A Liquid Surface Lake
First confirmed existence of a lake of any liquid on the surface of any planet or body in the solar system -- the envelope, please! -- goes to Titan. The lake is liquid ethane. There are seas, lake, and rivers seen in the region of the North Pole, and the prevailing suspicion (but no proof) has been that they are methane, but now ethane may seem more likely. This lake is located near the South Pole, is named Ontario Lactus, or Lake Ontario. It's about the same size as Earth's Lake Ontario; the existence of a Canada on its north shore has not been confirmed. No lakes or seas have been seen outside the polar regions. Evidence suggests that rain falls only at the Poles, where the lakes are. Oddly, cold as Titan is, it may be that it is too hot for rain and bodies of water except at the Poles and that the hazy atmosphere is, in effect, cold steam. Full text of the press release is below. Sterling K. Webb http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080730140726.htm Scientists have confirmed that at least one body in our solar system, other than Earth, has a surface liquid lake. Using an instrument on NASA's Cassini orbiter, they discovered that a lake-like feature in the south polar region of Saturn's moon, Titan, is truly wet. The lake is about 235 kilometers, or 150 miles, long. The visual and infrared mapping spectrometer, or VIMS, an instrument run from The University Arizona, identifies the chemical composition of objects by the way matter reflects light. When VIMS observed the lake, named Ontario Lacus, it detected ethane, a simple hydrocarbon that Titan experts have long been searching for. The ethane is in liquid solution with methane, nitrogen and other low-molecular weight hydrocarbons. This is the first observation that really pins down that Titan has a surface lake filled with liquid, VIMS principal investigator and professor Robert H. Brown of UA's Lunar and Planetary Laboratory said. Brown and his team report their results in the July 31 issue of the journal Nature. Detection of liquid ethane in Ontario Lacus confirms a long-held idea that lakes and seas filled with methane and ethane exist on Titan, said Larry Soderblom of the U.S. Geological Survey, Flagstaff, Ariz. The fact that the VIMS could detect the spectral signatures of ethane on the moon's dimly lit surface while viewing at a highly slanted angle through Titan's thick atmosphere raises expectations for exciting future lake discoveries by the infrared spectrometer, Soderblom, an interdisciplinary Cassini scientist, said. The ubiquitous hydrocarbon haze in Titan's atmosphere hinders the view to Titan's surface. But there are transparent atmospheric windows at certain infrared light wavelengths through which Cassini's VIMS can see to the ground. VIMS observed Ontario Lacus on Cassini's 38th close flyby of Titan in December 2007. The lake is roughly 20,000 square kilometers, or 7,800 square miles, just slightly larger than North America's Lake Ontario, Brown said. Infrared spectroscopy doesn't tell the researchers how deep the lake is, other than it must be at least a centimeter or two, or about three-quarters of an inch, deep. We know the lake is liquid because it reflects essentially no light at 5-micron wavelengths, Brown said. It was hard for us to accept the fact that the feature was so black when we first saw it. More than 99.9 percent of the light that reaches the lake never gets out again. For it to be that dark, the surface has to be extremely quiescent, mirror smooth. No naturally produced solid could be that smooth. VIMS observations at 2-micron wavelengths shows the lake holds ethane. The scientists saw the specific signature of ethane as a dip at the precise wavelength that ethane absorbs infrared light. Tiny ethane particles almost as fine as cigarette smoke are apparently filtering out of the atmosphere and into the lake, Brown said. Ethane is a simple hydrocarbon produced when ultraviolet light from the sun breaks up its parent molecule, methane, in Titan's methane-rich, mostly nitrogen atmosphere. Before the Cassini mission, several scientists thought that Titan would be awash in global oceans of ethane and other light hydrocarbons, the byproducts of photolysis, or the action of ultraviolet light on methane over 4.5 billion years of solar system history. But 40 close flybys of Titan by the Cassini spacecraft show no such oceans exist. The observations also suggest the lake is evaporating. The lake is ringed by a dark beach, where the black lake merges with the bright shoreline. We can see there's a shelf, a beach, that is being exposed as the lake evaporates, Brown said. That the beach is darker than the shoreline could mean that the sand on the beach is wet with organics, or it could be covered with a thin layer of liquid organics, he said. The VIMS measurements
Re: [meteorite-list] THE MOON IS NO LONGER A DRY COUNTY?
Sterling, If these samples truly originated on the moon. doesn't this mean back to the old drawing board? Carl --- On Wed, 7/9/08, Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] THE MOON IS NO LONGER A DRY COUNTY? To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 3:19 PM Hi, The absence of water in the bulk composition of the Moon is a long-held truism -- the driest body in the Solar System. We've always believed, and the evidence has supported, the notion that due to its violent origin all water (and volatiles) were lost. Now, someone's found water in Moon Rocks. Water is discovered in Moon Samples http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/080709-moon-water.html Sterling K. Webb __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] THE MOON IS NO LONGER A DRY COUNTY?
Hi, Carl, List, The samples are the famous orange soil from Apollo 17, found by Harrison Schmidt. The soil was orange because of tiny orange glass beads in it. The beads are one of the few indicators of ancient lunar volcanism. You get glass beads in volcanoes because tiny drops of molten ejecta cool so fast they can't recrystalize. Volcanic glass on Earth is often wet and gassy rock because it's ejected into an atmosphere that retards the loss of water. On the Moon, lava will lose more of its water, being ejected into a vacuum. You can back-calculate how much water there was in the lava before it reached the lunar surface. Guess what? The lunar lava was as wet as terrestrial lava, or maybe only half as wet, but WET. Since lava is just the pressurized melt of whatever is down there, that says the deep rock of the Moon has a similar amount of water in its make-up as the Earth. And the Earth is one wet planet. You can expect a flurry of argument and repeats of the measurements and the usual flap. If it holds up, it has a theoretical and a practical implication. It makes the Big Crash Theory of the Moon's origin more complicated and problematical; it will generate new modeling. (I've already thought of a theory but I have no supercomputers to find out if it's silly.) In practical terms, it means there may be deep water on the Moon, a very handy thing to have if you could reach it by drilling at some point in the future. The total absence of accessible water is (or rather will be) the chief limitation to human expansion on the Moon in the short term. Otherwise, you've got everything you need: free real estate, a supply of constant and virtually unlimited solar power, untouched natural resources, abundant vacuum -- what more could anyone want? Water. Sterling K. Webb - Historical note: the water content they measured is consistent with the very low end of the water content of tektites, so if there's anybody still alive out there that believes in the lunar volcano origin theory of tektites... hang in there. - - Original Message - From: Carl Esparza [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] THE MOON IS NO LONGER A DRY COUNTY? Sterling, If these samples truly originated on the moon. doesn't this mean back to the old drawing board? Carl --- On Wed, 7/9/08, Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] THE MOON IS NO LONGER A DRY COUNTY? To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 3:19 PM Hi, The absence of water in the bulk composition of the Moon is a long-held truism -- the driest body in the Solar System. We've always believed, and the evidence has supported, the notion that due to its violent origin all water (and volatiles) were lost. Now, someone's found water in Moon Rocks. Water is discovered in Moon Samples http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/080709-moon-water.html Sterling K. Webb __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] THE MOON IS NO LONGER A DRY COUNTY?
Hi, The absence of water in the bulk composition of the Moon is a long-held truism -- the driest body in the Solar System. We've always believed, and the evidence has supported, the notion that due to its violent origin all water (and volatiles) were lost. Now, someone's found water in Moon Rocks. Water is discovered in Moon Samples http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/080709-moon-water.html Sterling K. Webb __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Saturn's Moon Rhea Also May Have Rings
March 6, 2008 Dwayne Brown Headquarters, Washington 202-358-1726 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Carolina Martinez Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. 818-354-9382 [EMAIL PROTECTED] RELEASE: 08-074 SATURN'S MOON RHEA ALSO MAY HAVE RINGS PASADENA, Calif. - NASA's Cassini spacecraft has found evidence of material orbiting Rhea, Saturn's second largest moon. This is the first time rings may have been found around a moon. A broad debris disk and at least one ring appear to have been detected by a suite of six instruments on Cassini specifically designed to study the atmospheres and particles around Saturn and its moons. Until now, only planets were known to have rings, but now Rhea seems to have some family ties to its ringed parent Saturn, said Geraint Jones, Cassini scientist, and lead author on a paper that appears in the March 7 issue of the journal Science. Jones began this work while at the Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research, Katlenburg-Lindau, Germany, and is now at the Mullard Space Science Laboratory, University College, London. Rhea is roughly 950 miles in diameter. The apparent debris disk measures several thousand miles from end to end. The particles that make up the disk and any embedded rings probably range from the size of small pebbles to boulders. An additional dust cloud may extend up to 3,000 miles from the moon's center, almost eight times the radius of Rhea. Like finding planets around other stars, and moons around asteroids, these findings are opening a new field of rings around moons, said Norbert Krupp, a scientist on Cassini's Magnetospheric Imaging Instrument from the Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research. Since the discovery, Cassini scientists have carried out numerical simulations to determine if Rhea can maintain rings. The models show that Rhea's gravity field, in combination with its orbit around Saturn, could allow rings that form to remain in place for a very long time. The discovery was a result of a Cassini close flyby of Rhea in November 2005, when instruments on the spacecraft observed the environment around the moon. Three instruments sampled the dust directly. The existence of some debris was expected because a rain of dust constantly hits Saturn's moons, including Rhea, knocking particles into space around them. Other instruments' observations showed how the moon was interacting with Saturn's magnetosphere, and ruled out the possibility of an atmosphere. Evidence for a debris disk in addition to this tenuous dust cloud came from a gradual drop on either side of Rhea in the number of electrons detected by two of Cassini's instruments. Material near Rhea appeared to be shielding Cassini from the usual rain of electrons. Cassini's Magnetospheric Imaging Instrument also detected sharp, brief drops in electrons on both sides of the moon, suggesting the presence of rings within the disk of debris. The rings of Uranus were found in a similar fashion, by NASA's Kuiper Airborne Observatory in 1977, when light from a star blinked on and off as it passed behind Uranus' rings. Seeing almost the same signatures on either side of Rhea was the clincher, added Jones. After ruling out many other possibilities, we said these are most likely rings. No one was expecting rings around a moon. One possible explanation for these rings is that they are remnants from an asteroid or comet collision in Rhea's distant past. Such a collision may have pitched large quantities of gas and solid particles around Rhea. Once the gas dissipated, all that remained were the ring particles. Other moons of Saturn, such as Mimas, show evidence of a catastrophic collision that almost tore the moon apart. The diversity in our solar system never fails to amaze us, said Candy Hansen, co-author and Cassini scientist on the Ultraviolet Imaging Spectrograph at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. JPL manages Cassini for NASA. Many years ago we thought Saturn was the only planet with rings. Now we may have a moon of Saturn that is a miniature version of its even more elaborately decorated parent. These ring findings make Rhea a prime candidate for further study. Initial observations by the imaging team when Rhea was near the sun in the sky did not detect dust near the moon remotely. Additional observations are planned to look for the larger particles. The Cassini-Huygens mission is a cooperative project of NASA, the European Space Agency and the Italian Space Agency. The Magnetospheric Imaging Instrument was designed, built and is operated by an international team led by the Applied Physics Laboratory, Johns Hopkins University, Laurel, Md. For information on the Cassini mission, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/cassini -end- __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
[meteorite-list] Chang's Moon
Here's the first public photo from China's first Moon orbiter launched last month. http://www.cnsa.gov.cn/n615709/n620682/n639462/132125.html Not bad for the Chang'e ship (apparently pronounced Ch-ong-er after the snooping woman in her husband's personal items, who feared being caught, ate the evidence (her husband's vitamin herb) and fled in to the Moon with her rabbit that now manufacture herbal remedies). By the time we see manned voyages back to the Moon, a thriving business in Chinese restaurants will be serving travelers take-out. The Chinese do have a sense of humor. Curiously, Apollo 11 (Armstrong, Collins, Aldrin, 1969) and Houston joked about this Chinese legend upon arriving by the Moon in what was to become the first Moonwalk, and now China has contending for the last laugh, Mission Control: ...Chinese girl called Chang-o has been living there for 4000 years. It seems she was banished to the moon because she stole the pill for immortality from her husband. You might also look for her companion, a large Chinese rabbit, who is easy to spot since he is only standing on his hind feet in the shade of a cinnamon tree. The name of the rabbit is not recorded. Michael Collins: OK we'll keep a close eye for the bunny-girl. Best Wishes, Doug __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Chang's Moon
Hi Doug and List, Thanks Doug for the interesting post as always. The rabbit goes by the name of Moon Rabbit (\) or Jade Rabbit (Ê\) (aka Gold Rabbit (à\). The Rabbit in Japanese folklore,Ìe, is busy pounding mochi (sticky rice cakes) in a traditional mochi mortar; mochi is eatten during the Lunar New Year (mochizuki- full moon) by Japanese to ensure a long life. In Chinese mythology, the rabbit is given the task of helping the moon goddess, Chang`e, make magical eternal life elixer from herbs. For more about this: http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/nikko-gakko.shtml http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_rabbit Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo --- mexicodoug [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's the first public photo from China's first Moon orbiter launched last month. http://www.cnsa.gov.cn/n615709/n620682/n639462/132125.html Not bad for the Chang'e ship (apparently pronounced Ch-ong-er after the snooping woman in her husband's personal items, who feared being caught, ate the evidence (her husband's vitamin herb) and fled in to the Moon with her rabbit that now manufacture herbal remedies). By the time we see manned voyages back to the Moon, a thriving business in Chinese restaurants will be serving travelers take-out. The Chinese do have a sense of humor. Curiously, Apollo 11 (Armstrong, Collins, Aldrin, 1969) and Houston joked about this Chinese legend upon arriving by the Moon in what was to become the first Moonwalk, and now China has contending for the last laugh, Mission Control: ...Chinese girl called Chang-o has been living there for 4000 years. It seems she was banished to the moon because she stole the pill for immortality from her husband. You might also look for her companion, a large Chinese rabbit, who is easy to spot since he is only standing on his hind feet in the shade of a cinnamon tree. The name of the rabbit is not recorded. Michael Collins: OK we'll keep a close eye for the bunny-girl. Best Wishes, Doug __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Chang's Moon
Cool post Doug! Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: mexicodoug [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 4:08 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Chang's Moon Here's the first public photo from China's first Moon orbiter launched last month. http://www.cnsa.gov.cn/n615709/n620682/n639462/132125.html Not bad for the Chang'e ship (apparently pronounced Ch-ong-er after the snooping woman in her husband's personal items, who feared being caught, ate the evidence (her husband's vitamin herb) and fled in to the Moon with her rabbit that now manufacture herbal remedies). By the time we see manned voyages back to the Moon, a thriving business in Chinese restaurants will be serving travelers take-out. The Chinese do have a sense of humor. Curiously, Apollo 11 (Armstrong, Collins, Aldrin, 1969) and Houston joked about this Chinese legend upon arriving by the Moon in what was to become the first Moonwalk, and now China has contending for the last laugh, Mission Control: ...Chinese girl called Chang-o has been living there for 4000 years. It seems she was banished to the moon because she stole the pill for immortality from her husband. You might also look for her companion, a large Chinese rabbit, who is easy to spot since he is only standing on his hind feet in the shade of a cinnamon tree. The name of the rabbit is not recorded. Michael Collins: OK we'll keep a close eye for the bunny-girl. Best Wishes, Doug __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Chang's Moon
Hi, Doug, List fled... to the Moon with her rabbit that now manufactures herbal remedies... I get frequent Spam touting that herbal remedy, but I did not realize that I was getting Lunar Spam. http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/15516/1075/ The area shown in the image is located within a region of 54-to-70 degrees south latitude and 57-to-83 degrees east longitude. The size of area is about 285 miles (460 kilometers) in length and 175 miles (280 kilometers) in width. This is so far around the southeast limb that my attempts to identify the craters is defeated by the perspective of pictures taken from Earth (where the view is edge-on to their rims) and Chang'e's vertical view. Hanno and Pontécoulant and a bunch of the minor Boussingault craters should be in that vicinity somewhere. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: mexicodoug [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 3:08 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Chang's Moon Here's the first public photo from China's first Moon orbiter launched last month. http://www.cnsa.gov.cn/n615709/n620682/n639462/132125.html Not bad for the Chang'e ship (apparently pronounced Ch-ong-er after the snooping woman in her husband's personal items, who feared being caught, ate the evidence (her husband's vitamin herb) and fled in to the Moon with her rabbit that now manufacture herbal remedies). By the time we see manned voyages back to the Moon, a thriving business in Chinese restaurants will be serving travelers take-out. The Chinese do have a sense of humor. Curiously, Apollo 11 (Armstrong, Collins, Aldrin, 1969) and Houston joked about this Chinese legend upon arriving by the Moon in what was to become the first Moonwalk, and now China has contending for the last laugh, Mission Control: ...Chinese girl called Chang-o has been living there for 4000 years. It seems she was banished to the moon because she stole the pill for immortality from her husband. You might also look for her companion, a large Chinese rabbit, who is easy to spot since he is only standing on his hind feet in the shade of a cinnamon tree. The name of the rabbit is not recorded. Michael Collins: OK we'll keep a close eye for the bunny-girl. Best Wishes, Doug __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Chang's Moon
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:45:12 -0800 (PST), you wrote: The Rabbit in Japanese folklore,Ìe, is busy pounding mochi (sticky rice cakes) in a traditional mochi mortar; mochi is eatten during the Lunar New Year (mochizuki- full moon) by Japanese to ensure a long life. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_rabbit Hm. Rabbit standing by a pot? That's no pot, that's obviously Domo-kun! __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
