[meteorite-list] The Life of Slag/Slag-glass ...was What is this?
In “The Life of Slag/Slag-glass ...was What is this?” at: http://www.mail-archive.com/meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com/msg113477.html MEM wrote: “I was explaining the multitude of reasons that slag is found virtually everywhere--including Revolutionary and Civil War foundries, long left abandoned to rural pastures when I had someone once argue that his specimen couldn't be slag from a rail road because there had never been a railroad within miles. I then showed him on the topo map where an abandoned rail right-of-way was less than 200 yards from the dirt road he found his "meteor-wrong" along.” A person brought me a basketball-size piece of fresh brownish green glass that he found in Little Rock, Arkansas while bulldozer a site for a strip mall. It was quickly identified as steel foundry slag glass that is quite popular in Arkansas for use in decorating their gardens and other landscaping. This type of steel foundry slag glass can be seen as, often large, blocks of colorful blue, bluish-green, greenish, yellow, red, white, orange, purple, and so forth slag glass lying on large tables in front of Arkansas rock shops in and between Murfreesboro to Hot Springs areas. From what I have fond, the slag originally came from foundry at Fort Smith in Sebastian County, Arkansas, and is now imported from other states. This slag glass can also be found in rock shops all over the United States, in people's gardens and fish tanks everywhere, and for sale all on ebay. A person does not need to even be next to a railroad to find it. Fortunately, he did not believe this material to be a meteorite. He did think it was possibly a really weird obsidian. Go see J. Michael Howard answers questions about Geology, Rock Types, and Earth Science http://www.rockhoundingar.com/askmikeygeology.php Slag Glass – tumblr http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/slag%20glass Obsidian in Oklahoma? http://arrowheads.com/forums/learn-about-material-types/18761-obsidian-in-oklahoma Slag glass near Austin for those lucky folks going to SAMA http://www.mosaicandstainedglass.org/forums/index.php?topic=6753.0 Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Life of Slag/Slag-glass ...was What is this?
Hello Carl,
A janitor huffing tile adhesive whilst emptying trash cans in some
administrative back office at NASA probably doesn't lend much
credibility, even if he's crashing in his van outside a Holiday Inn
Express every night.
Wild claims abound.
But regardless of who is making the claim, they're going to have to
show us what managed to impart the energy to fling it five more times around
the earth
after the ultimate interface. And since they _can't_ do that, the
problem is solved by default, and I don't much care what their name is.
[which is probably why we don't see any well-respected names {or any
at all...} associated with it]. If it were even a couple thousand km back up
the ground
track, we could have a discussion - it's not, and we can't.
Physics talks, and the rest of it walks.
--- Jodie
Monday, June 17, 2013, 11:13:36 AM, you wrote:
> Elton,
> As always you make some very good points.
> I agree that this is a glassy slag. But, the question is; Where did it come
> from?
> Did the MIR have any glass that could have melted upon re-entry?
> And who at NASA said it came from MIR? To me those are the critical
> questions because if for example A fellow at NASA named Grossman or
> Korotev said it I would tend to believe them. No need for pigeon
> holing material because it "looks" like slag. I know this is a
> stretch but, Some meteorites do look like slag. Look close at a hand
> specimen ( not a photo) of Vaca Muerta .
> Carl
> meteoritemax
> --
> Cheers
> MEM wrote:
>>
>>
>> I don't know which is a sadder example of failed science education: some
>> "NASA" "water cooler" engineer issuing a positive ID/letter of authenticity
>> for something impossible and under the color of authority of NASA--(Another
>> waste-fraud and abuse complaint to be made) OR the entire met central
>> membership and not one poster can recognize silicate ==> slag <===on sight.
>> ( I am not saying that "everyone" should be a slag expert just that there
>> should be more experts with critical vs casual identification skills given
>> all the talent represented here.)
>>
>> A bit more than a few would-be meteorite experts need to spend an extra 3
>> hours of field time getting to know ==> slag <== because I can't think of a
>> location in the lower 48, nor in all of Europe that would be farther than 3
>> hours max from a graveled path or railroad that doesn't have tons of it on
>> the surface. ( I've found slag in Alaska but not in Hawaii where natural
>> slag is known as pahoe-pahoe)
>>
>> I was explaining the multitude of reasons that slag is found virtually
>> everywhere--including Revolutionary and Civil War foundries, long left
>> abandoned to rural pastures when I had someone once argue that his specimen
>> couldn't be slag from a rail road because there had never been a railroad
>> within miles. I then showed him on the topo map where an abandoned rail
>> right-of-way was less than 200 yards from the dirt road he found his
>> "meteor-wrong" along.
>>
>> Ever since the industrial revolution, the smelting industry has been finding
>> every possible way to get rid of it. I know of whole islands and whole
>> mountains of slag. Green glassy foamy slag is the most common owing to the
>> buoyancy of silicated minerals rising to the top of the mix in any ore
>> smelting. Depending on the pre-processing inefficiency, there can be lots
>> more slag than metal on each run--hence the need to farm the stuff off on
>> others being thankful they had a use for it! Ballast for road beds, dumping
>> it off shore( See The Great Lake Emerald Meteorite saga) or using it for
>> shoreline erosion control or using it as gravel for paving are just a few.
>> It is literally everywhere.
>>
>>
>> It just takes some experience and exposure to become a slag expert. I know
>> first hand after sending some charcoal bearing volcanic glass to the
>> Smithsonian for radio-carbon dating a hither-to-unknown volcano from middle
>> Tennessee. Mr Harold Banks returned the sample with a nice letter telling
>> that 12 year old that his slag wasn't suitable for dating. I later found
>> that I had pulled it from a Civil War Cannonball foundry. Point: slag is
>> everywhere even if the original source is long gone. The slag last forever
>> for human understanding, even across cultures and ages. There are
>> pre-historic slag piles on Cyprus, Italy, Greece, Egypt etc. It is a
>> fallacy of logic to believe that something "can't be slag" because you don't
>> know exactly how it came to be in a location. Seems that to believe it
>> therefore "came from space" seems to be the corollary which always follows.
>>
>> The most frequent meteor-wrong brought in for identification, we should all
>> get to know it by characteristic and by sight so that the kinds of
>> disruptions we see every few weeks by the novice insisting that it couldn't
>> be slag and must be a meteorite could be sim
Re: [meteorite-list] The Life of Slag/Slag-glass ...was What is this?
The life of THIS slag is that it will, apparently, live forever on this list! Michael On 6/17/13 1:02 PM, "plagiok...@arcor.de" wrote: > This slag was never in space or MIR. Its common slag, which has been placed > togfether with many tons of other pieces on the shore of the river to ensure > its stability. As Michael Farmer told, the Stone never saw anyone from the > NASA. People tell many storys to let their own opinions sound stronger. > > The probability that a meteorite looks like this is zero. Most slags have > common optical features (mostly certain crystals or materials (glass, metals > in form of drops), flow patterns and flowed looking surfaces, certain colors > and especially the bubbles). These slags cannot be confused even when one > identifies em on a bad quality photo. > Alexander > > > - Original Nachricht > Von: cdtuc...@cox.net > An: MEM , metlist > > Datum: 17.06.2013 20:13 > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] The Life of Slag/Slag-glass ...was What is > this? > >> Elton, >> As always you make some very good points. >> I agree that this is a glassy slag. But, the question is; Where did it come >> from? >> Did the MIR have any glass that could have melted upon re-entry? >> And who at NASA said it came from MIR? To me those are the critical >> questions because if for example A fellow at NASA named Grossman or Korotev >> said it I would tend to believe them. No need for pigeon holing material >> because it "looks" like slag. I know this is a stretch but, Some meteorites >> do look like slag. Look close at a hand specimen ( not a photo) of Vaca >> Muerta . >> Carl >> meteoritemax >> >> -- >> Cheers >> >> MEM wrote: >>> >>> >>> I don't know which is a sadder example of failed science education: some >> "NASA" "water cooler" engineer issuing a positive ID/letter of authenticity >> for something impossible and under the color of authority of NASA--(Another >> waste-fraud and abuse complaint to be made) OR the entire met central >> membership and not one poster can recognize silicate ==> slag <===on sight. >> ( I am not saying that "everyone" should be a slag expert just that there >> should be more experts with critical vs casual identification skills given >> all the talent represented here.) >>> >>> A bit more than a few would-be meteorite experts need to spend an extra 3 >> hours of field time getting to know ==> slag <== because I can't think of a >> location in the lower 48, nor in all of Europe that would be farther than 3 >> hours max from a graveled path or railroad that doesn't have tons of it on >> the surface. ( I've found slag in Alaska but not in Hawaii where natural >> slag is known as pahoe-pahoe) >>> >>> I was explaining the multitude of reasons that slag is found virtually >> everywhere--including Revolutionary and Civil War foundries, long left >> abandoned to rural pastures when I had someone once argue that his specimen >> couldn't be slag from a rail road because there had never been a railroad >> within miles. I then showed him on the topo map where an abandoned rail >> right-of-way was less than 200 yards from the dirt road he found his >> "meteor-wrong" along. >>> >>> Ever since the industrial revolution, the smelting industry has been >> finding every possible way to get rid of it. I know of whole islands and >> whole mountains of slag. Green glassy foamy slag is the most common owing to >> the buoyancy of silicated minerals rising to the top of the mix in any ore >> smelting. Depending on the pre-processing inefficiency, there can be lots >> more slag than metal on each run--hence the need to farm the stuff off on >> others being thankful they had a use for it! Ballast for road beds, dumping >> it off shore( See The Great Lake Emerald Meteorite saga) or using it for >> shoreline erosion control or using it as gravel for paving are just a few. >> It is literally everywhere. >>> >>> >>> It just takes some experience and exposure to become a slag expert. I >> know first hand after sending some charcoal bearing volcanic glass to the >> Smithsonian for radio-carbon dating a hither-to-unknown volcano from middle >> Tennessee. Mr Harold Banks returned the sample with a nice letter telling >> that 12 year old that his slag wasn't suitable for dating. I later found >> that I had pulled it from a Civil War Cannonball foundry. Point: slag is &
Re: [meteorite-list] The Life of Slag/Slag-glass ...was What is this?
This slag was never in space or MIR. Its common slag, which has been placed togfether with many tons of other pieces on the shore of the river to ensure its stability. As Michael Farmer told, the Stone never saw anyone from the NASA. People tell many storys to let their own opinions sound stronger. The probability that a meteorite looks like this is zero. Most slags have common optical features (mostly certain crystals or materials (glass, metals in form of drops), flow patterns and flowed looking surfaces, certain colors and especially the bubbles). These slags cannot be confused even when one identifies em on a bad quality photo. Alexander - Original Nachricht Von: cdtuc...@cox.net An: MEM , metlist Datum: 17.06.2013 20:13 Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] The Life of Slag/Slag-glass ...was What is this? > Elton, > As always you make some very good points. > I agree that this is a glassy slag. But, the question is; Where did it come > from? > Did the MIR have any glass that could have melted upon re-entry? > And who at NASA said it came from MIR? To me those are the critical > questions because if for example A fellow at NASA named Grossman or Korotev > said it I would tend to believe them. No need for pigeon holing material > because it "looks" like slag. I know this is a stretch but, Some meteorites > do look like slag. Look close at a hand specimen ( not a photo) of Vaca > Muerta . > Carl > meteoritemax > > -- > Cheers > > MEM wrote: > > > > > > I don't know which is a sadder example of failed science education: some > "NASA" "water cooler" engineer issuing a positive ID/letter of authenticity > for something impossible and under the color of authority of NASA--(Another > waste-fraud and abuse complaint to be made) OR the entire met central > membership and not one poster can recognize silicate ==> slag <===on sight. > ( I am not saying that "everyone" should be a slag expert just that there > should be more experts with critical vs casual identification skills given > all the talent represented here.) > > > > A bit more than a few would-be meteorite experts need to spend an extra 3 > hours of field time getting to know ==> slag <== because I can't think of a > location in the lower 48, nor in all of Europe that would be farther than 3 > hours max from a graveled path or railroad that doesn't have tons of it on > the surface. ( I've found slag in Alaska but not in Hawaii where natural > slag is known as pahoe-pahoe) > > > > I was explaining the multitude of reasons that slag is found virtually > everywhere--including Revolutionary and Civil War foundries, long left > abandoned to rural pastures when I had someone once argue that his specimen > couldn't be slag from a rail road because there had never been a railroad > within miles. I then showed him on the topo map where an abandoned rail > right-of-way was less than 200 yards from the dirt road he found his > "meteor-wrong" along. > > > > Ever since the industrial revolution, the smelting industry has been > finding every possible way to get rid of it. I know of whole islands and > whole mountains of slag. Green glassy foamy slag is the most common owing to > the buoyancy of silicated minerals rising to the top of the mix in any ore > smelting. Depending on the pre-processing inefficiency, there can be lots > more slag than metal on each run--hence the need to farm the stuff off on > others being thankful they had a use for it! Ballast for road beds, dumping > it off shore( See The Great Lake Emerald Meteorite saga) or using it for > shoreline erosion control or using it as gravel for paving are just a few. > It is literally everywhere. > > > > > > It just takes some experience and exposure to become a slag expert. I > know first hand after sending some charcoal bearing volcanic glass to the > Smithsonian for radio-carbon dating a hither-to-unknown volcano from middle > Tennessee. Mr Harold Banks returned the sample with a nice letter telling > that 12 year old that his slag wasn't suitable for dating. I later found > that I had pulled it from a Civil War Cannonball foundry. Point: slag is > everywhere even if the original source is long gone. The slag last forever > for human understanding, even across cultures and ages. There are > pre-historic slag piles on Cyprus, Italy, Greece, Egypt etc. It is a > fallacy of logic to believe that something "can't be slag" because you don't > know exactly how it came to be in a location. Seems that to believe it > therefore "came from space" seems to be the corollar
Re: [meteorite-list] The Life of Slag/Slag-glass ...was What is this?
Elton, As always you make some very good points. I agree that this is a glassy slag. But, the question is; Where did it come from? Did the MIR have any glass that could have melted upon re-entry? And who at NASA said it came from MIR? To me those are the critical questions because if for example A fellow at NASA named Grossman or Korotev said it I would tend to believe them. No need for pigeon holing material because it "looks" like slag. I know this is a stretch but, Some meteorites do look like slag. Look close at a hand specimen ( not a photo) of Vaca Muerta . Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers MEM wrote: > > > I don't know which is a sadder example of failed science education: some > "NASA" "water cooler" engineer issuing a positive ID/letter of authenticity > for something impossible and under the color of authority of NASA--(Another > waste-fraud and abuse complaint to be made) OR the entire met central > membership and not one poster can recognize silicate ==> slag <===on sight. > ( I am not saying that "everyone" should be a slag expert just that there > should be more experts with critical vs casual identification skills given > all the talent represented here.) > > A bit more than a few would-be meteorite experts need to spend an extra 3 > hours of field time getting to know ==> slag <== because I can't think of a > location in the lower 48, nor in all of Europe that would be farther than 3 > hours max from a graveled path or railroad that doesn't have tons of it on > the surface. ( I've found slag in Alaska but not in Hawaii where natural > slag is known as pahoe-pahoe) > > I was explaining the multitude of reasons that slag is found virtually > everywhere--including Revolutionary and Civil War foundries, long left > abandoned to rural pastures when I had someone once argue that his specimen > couldn't be slag from a rail road because there had never been a railroad > within miles. I then showed him on the topo map where an abandoned rail > right-of-way was less than 200 yards from the dirt road he found his > "meteor-wrong" along. > > Ever since the industrial revolution, the smelting industry has been finding > every possible way to get rid of it. I know of whole islands and whole > mountains of slag. Green glassy foamy slag is the most common owing to the > buoyancy of silicated minerals rising to the top of the mix in any ore > smelting. Depending on the pre-processing inefficiency, there can be lots > more slag than metal on each run--hence the need to farm the stuff off on > others being thankful they had a use for it! Ballast for road beds, dumping > it off shore( See The Great Lake Emerald Meteorite saga) or using it for > shoreline erosion control or using it as gravel for paving are just a few. > It is literally everywhere. > > > It just takes some experience and exposure to become a slag expert. I know > first hand after sending some charcoal bearing volcanic glass to the > Smithsonian for radio-carbon dating a hither-to-unknown volcano from middle > Tennessee. Mr Harold Banks returned the sample with a nice letter telling > that 12 year old that his slag wasn't suitable for dating. I later found > that I had pulled it from a Civil War Cannonball foundry. Point: slag is > everywhere even if the original source is long gone. The slag last forever > for human understanding, even across cultures and ages. There are > pre-historic slag piles on Cyprus, Italy, Greece, Egypt etc. It is a fallacy > of logic to believe that something "can't be slag" because you don't know > exactly how it came to be in a location. Seems that to believe it therefore > "came from space" seems to be the corollary which always follows. > > The most frequent meteor-wrong brought in for identification, we should all > get to know it by characteristic and by sight so that the kinds of > disruptions we see every few weeks by the novice insisting that it couldn't > be slag and must be a meteorite could be simply answered in the FAQ section. > > Regards, > Elton > > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Life of Slag/Slag-glass ...was What is this?
My standard answer to the question."if it is not a meteorite, then what is it" is "I don't know what it is, but I know what it is NOT" Jim Strope 421 4th Street Glen Dale, WV. 26038 Sent from my iPad On Jun 17, 2013, at 2:47 PM, Mendy Ouzillou wrote: > Elton, > > Mea Culpa. > > > I have not seen enough slag that I was able to recognize it on sight from the > few flashes they showed on the video. However, the ones that responded, > including myself, knew immediately that this was not an object that had ever > been in space. Oftentimes on Facebook, people will ask, "if it is not a > meteorite, then what is it?" The short answer is that one can dismiss a > specimen (with high certainty) as a meteor-wrong from a picture. However, > identifying the type of terrestrial material can be much more difficult. > After, reading your explanation below, I feel better educated as to what to > look for. We are all sensitized to different things and expert in different > areas. Your experience in handling slag and viewing images of it would be an > ideal example to go into Jared Diamond's book, Blink. > > Best, > > > Mendy Ouzillou > > >> ____________ >> From: MEM >> To: metlist >> Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 2:11 AM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Life of Slag/Slag-glass ...was What is >> this? >> >> >> >> >> I don't know which is a sadder example of failed science education: some >> "NASA" "water cooler" engineer issuing a positive ID/letter of authenticity >> for something impossible and under the color of authority of NASA--(Another >> waste-fraud and abuse complaint to be made) OR the entire met central >> membership and not one poster can recognize silicate ==> slag <===on sight. >> ( I am not saying that "everyone" should be a slag expert just that there >> should be more experts with critical vs casual identification skills given >> all the talent represented here.) >> >> A bit more than a few would-be meteorite experts need to spend an extra 3 >> hours of field time getting to know ==> slag <== because I can't think of a >> location in the lower 48, nor in all of Europe that would be farther than 3 >> hours max from a graveled path or railroad that doesn't have tons of it on >> the surface. ( I've found slag in Alaska but not in Hawaii where natural >> slag is known as pahoe-pahoe) >> >> I was explaining the multitude of reasons that slag is found virtually >> everywhere--including Revolutionary and Civil War foundries, long left >> abandoned to rural pastures when I had someone once argue that his specimen >> couldn't be slag from a rail road because there had never been a railroad >> within miles. I then showed him on the topo map where an abandoned rail >> right-of-way was less than 200 yards from the dirt road he found his >> "meteor-wrong" along. >> >> Ever since the industrial revolution, the smelting industry has been finding >> every possible way to get rid of it. I know of whole islands and whole >> mountains of slag. Green glassy foamy slag is the most common owing to the >> buoyancy of silicated minerals rising to the top of the mix in any ore >> smelting. Depending on the pre-processing inefficiency, there can be lots >> more slag than metal on each run--hence the need to farm the stuff off on >> others being thankful they had a use for it! Ballast for road beds, dumping >> it off shore( See The Great Lake Emerald Meteorite saga) or using it for >> shoreline erosion control or using it as gravel for paving are just a few. >> It is literally everywhere. >> >> >> It just takes some experience and exposure to become a slag expert. I know >> first hand after sending some charcoal bearing volcanic glass to the >> Smithsonian for radio-carbon dating a hither-to-unknown volcano from middle >> Tennessee. Mr Harold Banks returned the sample with a nice letter telling >> that 12 year old that his slag wasn't suitable for dating. I later found >> that I had pulled it from a Civil War Cannonball foundry. Point: slag is >> everywhere even if the original source is long gone. The slag last forever >> for human understanding, even across cultures and ages. There are >> pre-historic slag piles on Cyprus, Italy, Greece, Egypt etc. It is a >> fallacy of logic to believe that something "can't be slag" because you don't >> know exactly how it came
Re: [meteorite-list] The Life of Slag/Slag-glass ...was What is this?
Resending: Elton, Mea Culpa. I have not seen enough slag that I was able to recognize it on sight from the few flashes they showed on the video. However, the ones that responded, including myself, knew immediately that this was not an object that had ever been in space. Oftentimes on Facebook, people will ask, "if it is not a meteorite, then what is it?" The short answer is that one can dismiss a specimen (with high certainty) as a meteor-wrong from a picture. However, identifying the type of terrestrial material can be much more difficult. After, reading your explanation below, I feel better educated as to what to look for. We are all sensitized to different things and expert in different areas. Your experience in handling slag and viewing images of it would be an ideal example to go into Jared Diamond's book, Blink. Best, Mendy Ouzillou > > From: Mendy Ouzillou >To: MEM ; metlist >Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 11:47 AM >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Life of Slag/Slag-glass ...was What is this? > > >Elton, > >Mea Culpa. > > >I have not seen enough slag that I was able to recognize it on sight from the >few flashes they showed on the video. However, the ones that responded, >including myself, knew immediately that this was not an object that had ever >been in space. Oftentimes on Facebook, people will ask, "if it is not a >meteorite, then what is it?" The short answer is that one can dismiss a >specimen (with high certainty) as a meteor-wrong from a picture. However, >identifying the type of terrestrial material can be much more difficult. >After, reading your explanation below, I feel better educated as to what to >look for. We are all sensitized to different things and expert in different >areas. Your experience in handling slag and viewing images of it would be an >ideal example to go into Jared Diamond's book, Blink. > >Best, > > >Mendy Ouzillou > > >>________________ >> From: MEM >>To: metlist >>Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 2:11 AM >>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Life of Slag/Slag-glass ...was What is this? >> >> >> >> >>I don't know which is a sadder example of failed science education: some >>"NASA" "water cooler" engineer issuing a positive ID/letter of authenticity >>for something impossible and under the color of authority of NASA--(Another >>waste-fraud and abuse complaint to be made) OR the entire met central >>membership and not one poster can recognize silicate ==> slag <===on sight. >>( I am not saying that "everyone" should be a slag expert just that there >>should be more experts with critical vs casual identification skills given >>all the talent represented here.) >> >>A bit more than a few would-be meteorite experts need to spend an extra 3 >>hours of field time getting to know ==> slag <== because I can't think of a >>location in the lower 48, nor in all of Europe that would be farther than 3 >>hours max from a graveled path or railroad that doesn't have tons of it on >>the surface. ( I've found slag in Alaska but not in Hawaii where natural >>slag is known as pahoe-pahoe) >> >>I was explaining the multitude of reasons that slag is found virtually >>everywhere--including Revolutionary and Civil War foundries, long left >>abandoned to rural pastures when I had someone once argue that his specimen >>couldn't be slag from a rail road because there had never been a railroad >>within miles. I then showed him on the topo map where an abandoned rail >>right-of-way was less than 200 yards from the dirt road he found his >>"meteor-wrong" along. >> >>Ever since the industrial revolution, the smelting industry has been finding >>every possible way to get rid of it. I know of whole islands and whole >>mountains of slag. Green glassy foamy slag is the most common owing to the >>buoyancy of silicated minerals rising to the top of the mix in any ore >>smelting. Depending on the pre-processing inefficiency, there can be lots >>more slag than metal on each run--hence the need to farm the stuff off on >>others being thankful they had a use for it! Ballast for road beds, dumping >>it off shore( See The Great Lake Emerald Meteorite saga) or using it for >>shoreline erosion control or using it as gravel for paving are just a few. >>It is literally everywhere. >> >> >>It just takes some experience and exposure to become a slag expert. I know >>first hand after sending some charcoal bearing volcanic glass to
Re: [meteorite-list] The Life of Slag/Slag-glass ...was What is this?
Elton, Mea Culpa. I have not seen enough slag that I was able to recognize it on sight from the few flashes they showed on the video. However, the ones that responded, including myself, knew immediately that this was not an object that had ever been in space. Oftentimes on Facebook, people will ask, "if it is not a meteorite, then what is it?" The short answer is that one can dismiss a specimen (with high certainty) as a meteor-wrong from a picture. However, identifying the type of terrestrial material can be much more difficult. After, reading your explanation below, I feel better educated as to what to look for. We are all sensitized to different things and expert in different areas. Your experience in handling slag and viewing images of it would be an ideal example to go into Jared Diamond's book, Blink. Best, Mendy Ouzillou > > From: MEM >To: metlist >Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 2:11 AM >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Life of Slag/Slag-glass ...was What is this? > > > > >I don't know which is a sadder example of failed science education: some >"NASA" "water cooler" engineer issuing a positive ID/letter of authenticity >for something impossible and under the color of authority of NASA--(Another >waste-fraud and abuse complaint to be made) OR the entire met central >membership and not one poster can recognize silicate ==> slag <===on sight. ( >I am not saying that "everyone" should be a slag expert just that there should >be more experts with critical vs casual identification skills given all the >talent represented here.) > >A bit more than a few would-be meteorite experts need to spend an extra 3 >hours of field time getting to know ==> slag <== because I can't think of a >location in the lower 48, nor in all of Europe that would be farther than 3 >hours max from a graveled path or railroad that doesn't have tons of it on the >surface. ( I've found slag in Alaska but not in Hawaii where natural slag is >known as pahoe-pahoe) > >I was explaining the multitude of reasons that slag is found virtually >everywhere--including Revolutionary and Civil War foundries, long left >abandoned to rural pastures when I had someone once argue that his specimen >couldn't be slag from a rail road because there had never been a railroad >within miles. I then showed him on the topo map where an abandoned rail >right-of-way was less than 200 yards from the dirt road he found his >"meteor-wrong" along. > >Ever since the industrial revolution, the smelting industry has been finding >every possible way to get rid of it. I know of whole islands and whole >mountains of slag. Green glassy foamy slag is the most common owing to the >buoyancy of silicated minerals rising to the top of the mix in any ore >smelting. Depending on the pre-processing inefficiency, there can be lots more >slag than metal on each run--hence the need to farm the stuff off on others >being thankful they had a use for it! Ballast for road beds, dumping it off >shore( See The Great Lake Emerald Meteorite saga) or using it for shoreline >erosion control or using it as gravel for paving are just a few. It is >literally everywhere. > > >It just takes some experience and exposure to become a slag expert. I know >first hand after sending some charcoal bearing volcanic glass to the >Smithsonian for radio-carbon dating a hither-to-unknown volcano from middle >Tennessee. Mr Harold Banks returned the sample with a nice letter telling >that 12 year old that his slag wasn't suitable for dating. I later found that >I had pulled it from a Civil War Cannonball foundry. Point: slag is >everywhere even if the original source is long gone. The slag last forever for >human understanding, even across cultures and ages. There are pre-historic >slag piles on Cyprus, Italy, Greece, Egypt etc. It is a fallacy of logic to >believe that something "can't be slag" because you don't know exactly how it >came to be in a location. Seems that to believe it therefore "came from space" >seems to be the corollary which always follows. > >The most frequent meteor-wrong brought in for identification, we should all >get to know it by characteristic and by sight so that the kinds of disruptions >we see every few weeks by the novice insisting that it couldn't be slag and >must be a meteorite could be simply answered in the FAQ section. > >Regards, >Elton > >__ > >Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Life of Slag/Slag-glass ...was What is this?
The media should think before they speak...Oh wait, sorry forgot it is the media. Sent from my iPhone On Jun 17, 2013, at 11:08 AM, plagiok...@arcor.de wrote: > I told that this is slag, so you cannot say no one here recognized this slag > as such. > > Yes, this kind of slag is very common (i said it already), but as every kind > of slag, it does not occur everywhere. I found rich occurrences of this > glassy kind im my old hometown, but in my new hometown i found during my live > just one piece of this glassy kind (and many pieces of other mostly > completely crystalline kinds). > Alexander > > > - Original Nachricht > Von: MEM > An: metlist > Datum: 17.06.2013 11:11 > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] The Life of Slag/Slag-glass ...was What is >this? > >> >> >> I don't know which is a sadder example of failed science education: some >> "NASA" "water cooler" engineer issuing a positive ID/letter of authenticity >> for something impossible and under the color of authority of NASA--(Another >> waste-fraud and abuse complaint to be made) OR the entire met central >> membership and not one poster can recognize silicate ==> slag <===on sight. >> ( I am not saying that "everyone" should be a slag expert just that there >> should be more experts with critical vs casual identification skills given >> all the talent represented here.) >> >> A bit more than a few would-be meteorite experts need to spend an extra 3 >> hours of field time getting to know ==> slag <== because I can't think of a >> location in the lower 48, nor in all of Europe that would be farther than 3 >> hours max from a graveled path or railroad that doesn't have tons of it on >> the surface. ( I've found slag in Alaska but not in Hawaii where natural >> slag is known as pahoe-pahoe) >> >> I was explaining the multitude of reasons that slag is found virtually >> everywhere--including Revolutionary and Civil War foundries, long left >> abandoned to rural pastures when I had someone once argue that his specimen >> couldn't be slag from a rail road because there had never been a railroad >> within miles. I then showed him on the topo map where an abandoned rail >> right-of-way was less than 200 yards from the dirt road he found his >> "meteor-wrong" along. >> >> Ever since the industrial revolution, the smelting industry has been finding >> every possible way to get rid of it. I know of whole islands and whole >> mountains of slag. Green glassy foamy slag is the most common owing to the >> buoyancy of silicated minerals rising to the top of the mix in any ore >> smelting. Depending on the pre-processing inefficiency, there can be lots >> more slag than metal on each run--hence the need to farm the stuff off on >> others being thankful they had a use for it! Ballast for road beds, dumping >> it off shore( See The Great Lake Emerald Meteorite saga) or using it for >> shoreline erosion control or using it as gravel for paving are just a few. >> It is literally everywhere. >> >> >> It just takes some experience and exposure to become a slag expert. I know >> first hand after sending some charcoal bearing volcanic glass to the >> Smithsonian for radio-carbon dating a hither-to-unknown volcano from middle >> Tennessee. Mr Harold Banks returned the sample with a nice letter telling >> that 12 year old that his slag wasn't suitable for dating. I later found >> that I had pulled it from a Civil War Cannonball foundry. Point: slag is >> everywhere even if the original source is long gone. The slag last forever >> for human understanding, even across cultures and ages. There are >> pre-historic slag piles on Cyprus, Italy, Greece, Egypt etc. It is a >> fallacy of logic to believe that something "can't be slag" because you don't >> know exactly how it came to be in a location. Seems that to believe it >> therefore "came from space" seems to be the corollary which always follows. >> >> The most frequent meteor-wrong brought in for identification, we should all >> get to know it by characteristic and by sight so that the kinds of >> disruptions we see every few weeks by the novice insisting that it couldn't >> be slag and must be a meteorite could be simply answered in the FAQ >> section. >> >> Regards, >> Elton >> >> __ >> >> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >> Meteorite-list m
Re: [meteorite-list] The Life of Slag/Slag-glass ...was What is this?
I told that this is slag, so you cannot say no one here recognized this slag as such. Yes, this kind of slag is very common (i said it already), but as every kind of slag, it does not occur everywhere. I found rich occurrences of this glassy kind im my old hometown, but in my new hometown i found during my live just one piece of this glassy kind (and many pieces of other mostly completely crystalline kinds). Alexander - Original Nachricht Von: MEM An: metlist Datum: 17.06.2013 11:11 Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] The Life of Slag/Slag-glass ...was What is this? > > > I don't know which is a sadder example of failed science education: some > "NASA" "water cooler" engineer issuing a positive ID/letter of authenticity > for something impossible and under the color of authority of NASA--(Another > waste-fraud and abuse complaint to be made) OR the entire met central > membership and not one poster can recognize silicate ==> slag <===on sight. > ( I am not saying that "everyone" should be a slag expert just that there > should be more experts with critical vs casual identification skills given > all the talent represented here.) > > A bit more than a few would-be meteorite experts need to spend an extra 3 > hours of field time getting to know ==> slag <== because I can't think of a > location in the lower 48, nor in all of Europe that would be farther than 3 > hours max from a graveled path or railroad that doesn't have tons of it on > the surface. ( I've found slag in Alaska but not in Hawaii where natural > slag is known as pahoe-pahoe) > > I was explaining the multitude of reasons that slag is found virtually > everywhere--including Revolutionary and Civil War foundries, long left > abandoned to rural pastures when I had someone once argue that his specimen > couldn't be slag from a rail road because there had never been a railroad > within miles. I then showed him on the topo map where an abandoned rail > right-of-way was less than 200 yards from the dirt road he found his > "meteor-wrong" along. > > Ever since the industrial revolution, the smelting industry has been finding > every possible way to get rid of it. I know of whole islands and whole > mountains of slag. Green glassy foamy slag is the most common owing to the > buoyancy of silicated minerals rising to the top of the mix in any ore > smelting. Depending on the pre-processing inefficiency, there can be lots > more slag than metal on each run--hence the need to farm the stuff off on > others being thankful they had a use for it! Ballast for road beds, dumping > it off shore( See The Great Lake Emerald Meteorite saga) or using it for > shoreline erosion control or using it as gravel for paving are just a few. > It is literally everywhere. > > > It just takes some experience and exposure to become a slag expert. I know > first hand after sending some charcoal bearing volcanic glass to the > Smithsonian for radio-carbon dating a hither-to-unknown volcano from middle > Tennessee. Mr Harold Banks returned the sample with a nice letter telling > that 12 year old that his slag wasn't suitable for dating. I later found > that I had pulled it from a Civil War Cannonball foundry. Point: slag is > everywhere even if the original source is long gone. The slag last forever > for human understanding, even across cultures and ages. There are > pre-historic slag piles on Cyprus, Italy, Greece, Egypt etc. It is a > fallacy of logic to believe that something "can't be slag" because you don't > know exactly how it came to be in a location. Seems that to believe it > therefore "came from space" seems to be the corollary which always follows. > > The most frequent meteor-wrong brought in for identification, we should all > get to know it by characteristic and by sight so that the kinds of > disruptions we see every few weeks by the novice insisting that it couldn't > be slag and must be a meteorite could be simply answered in the FAQ > section. > > Regards, > Elton > > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Life of Slag/Slag-glass ...was What is this?
I don't know which is a sadder example of failed science education: some "NASA" "water cooler" engineer issuing a positive ID/letter of authenticity for something impossible and under the color of authority of NASA--(Another waste-fraud and abuse complaint to be made) OR the entire met central membership and not one poster can recognize silicate ==> slag <===on sight. ( I am not saying that "everyone" should be a slag expert just that there should be more experts with critical vs casual identification skills given all the talent represented here.) A bit more than a few would-be meteorite experts need to spend an extra 3 hours of field time getting to know ==> slag <== because I can't think of a location in the lower 48, nor in all of Europe that would be farther than 3 hours max from a graveled path or railroad that doesn't have tons of it on the surface. ( I've found slag in Alaska but not in Hawaii where natural slag is known as pahoe-pahoe) I was explaining the multitude of reasons that slag is found virtually everywhere--including Revolutionary and Civil War foundries, long left abandoned to rural pastures when I had someone once argue that his specimen couldn't be slag from a rail road because there had never been a railroad within miles. I then showed him on the topo map where an abandoned rail right-of-way was less than 200 yards from the dirt road he found his "meteor-wrong" along. Ever since the industrial revolution, the smelting industry has been finding every possible way to get rid of it. I know of whole islands and whole mountains of slag. Green glassy foamy slag is the most common owing to the buoyancy of silicated minerals rising to the top of the mix in any ore smelting. Depending on the pre-processing inefficiency, there can be lots more slag than metal on each run--hence the need to farm the stuff off on others being thankful they had a use for it! Ballast for road beds, dumping it off shore( See The Great Lake Emerald Meteorite saga) or using it for shoreline erosion control or using it as gravel for paving are just a few. It is literally everywhere. It just takes some experience and exposure to become a slag expert. I know first hand after sending some charcoal bearing volcanic glass to the Smithsonian for radio-carbon dating a hither-to-unknown volcano from middle Tennessee. Mr Harold Banks returned the sample with a nice letter telling that 12 year old that his slag wasn't suitable for dating. I later found that I had pulled it from a Civil War Cannonball foundry. Point: slag is everywhere even if the original source is long gone. The slag last forever for human understanding, even across cultures and ages. There are pre-historic slag piles on Cyprus, Italy, Greece, Egypt etc. It is a fallacy of logic to believe that something "can't be slag" because you don't know exactly how it came to be in a location. Seems that to believe it therefore "came from space" seems to be the corollary which always follows. The most frequent meteor-wrong brought in for identification, we should all get to know it by characteristic and by sight so that the kinds of disruptions we see every few weeks by the novice insisting that it couldn't be slag and must be a meteorite could be simply answered in the FAQ section. Regards, Elton __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
