Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade? latin translated
Hi, Svend, Doug, List Thanks for the translation, Svend. I was Googling away looking for a translation when yours arrived in my mailbox! (For good translations of many classical texts, try the Classics Dept at MIT website, an odd spot, but lots of good stuff.) While I really do think we lost something when education stopped teaching the classics and spared us all the pain of "amo, amas..." and learning all those annoying greek letters, there is a limit to the wisdom to be found in the ancients, somewhere in the vicinity of the wall of irrevocable cultural difference. Here's one If I read it alright, the passage: " Let no girl or boy within your worshipful friend's marble threshold inflame your heart, lest the owner of the pretty boy or dear girl make you happy with a present so trifling or torment you if disobliging." means: " Don't get the 'hots' for your good buddies' pretty boy or girl household slaves and get all wrapped up in the thought of taking them back home with you to serve as sex slaves for you, because then your friends would have undue influence over you, either to make you way too happy with them or be really pissed off with them if they turn you down flat." Wow! That's good advice, and so useful in everyday life today... Yup, I agree 100%. I never ask my friends for child sex slaves to take home and abuse! I just don't do it anymore... So up to date. Doug, I think your advice is better than old Horace's! Why don't you write a book of letters? Or is that what you're doing, on the List? Once, back in the Dawn Ages, in a very dull lull in a 2nd year Greek class, I volunteered the idea that, for educational purposes, we should just DUMP the Greek alphabet; do the grammar, dictionaries, and texts in standardized roman characters; we would all learn the language at a rate 5 to 10 times faster, become fluent and be thinking in it in 2-3 years, be reading up a Thudycidian storm, THEN introduce the whacky characters, which would be easy to learn IF we already knew the language. I really thought that poor old guy (much younger than I am now) that taught the class was going to have a stroke! I got a memorable tongue-lashing that lasted for... 10, 15 minutes? I certainly remember it. I don't remember the Greek, but I remember that very well. Not everything ancient is dated or out-of-date. Some Persian prisoners, after the Battle of Marathon, who figured they weren't going to be prisoners long because their vast army would soon crush these silly Greeks soon, said to the Greeks, "We don't get it. Why are you putting up this crazy resistance. It makes no sense, and we don't understand what you're fighting for. All men are subject to other stronger men; what difference does it make whether they're Persian or whatever?" And the Greek guards just looked at them like, you poor dumb SOB's. Finally, one of the Greeks said, "We can't explain it to you. You wouldn't understand because you've been slaves all your lives, but if you'd ever been free for even one day, you would fight to the death to stay that way, just like we do." Over 2500+ years, and not dated in the least... Sterling K. Webb ------------------ - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:07 AM Subject: AW: Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade? latin translated A little more respect for the clear beauty of the Ablativus Absolutus! And as far as 'dead languages' are concerned: there will be a time when all our current languages will be dead ... However, here is a little translation of Dougs quotation from the 1st book of letters by Q. Horatius Flaccus: Let me continue my advice, if you need advice at all, - think often of what you say, and of whom, and to whom you say it. Avoid a questioner, for he is also a tattler. Open ears will not always keep secrets loyally, and the word once let slip flies beyond recall. Let no girl or boy within your worshipful friend's marble threshold inflame your heart, lest the owner of the pretty boy or dear girl make you happy with a present so trifling or torment you if disobliging. What sort of a person you introduce, consider again and again, lest by and by the other's failings strike you with shame. At times we err and present someone unworthy: therefore, if taken in, forbear to defend him whose own fault drags him down, in order that, if charges assail one you know thoroughly, you may watch over and protect the man who relies on your championship. For when he is nibbled at with Theon's tooth of slander, don't you feel that a little later the peril will pass to yourself? 'Tis your own safety that's at stake, when your neighbour's wall is in flames, and fires neglected a
Re: Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade? latin translated
- Original Message - From: "Kirk Jenks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Pete Pete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 7:26 PM Subject: Re: Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade? latin translated > Oh man.I loved that album!!! I listened to it over and over > again..The Big Bamboo!!!:-) > Kirk. > - Original Message - > From: "Pete Pete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:32 PM > Subject: Re: Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade? latin translated > > > > Ofeely meboney belly vubiscum, > > Billy selly allhis dominos > > > > ...Sister Mary Elephant (Cheech and Chong) > > > > > > > > From: "Kirk Jenks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Meteorite List" > > Subject: Re: Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade? latin translated > > Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:08:31 -0500 > > > > Hi There, > > Thank you for the translation.butSorry...I see > > little beauty in Latin. > > Try French.merci beaucoup! > > Kirk > > - Original Message - > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:07 AM > > Subject: AW: Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade? latin translated > > > > > > A little more respect for the clear beauty of the Ablativus Absolutus! And > > as far as 'dead languages' are concerned: there will be a time when all > our > > current languages will be dead ... > > > > However, here is a little translation of Dougs quotation from the 1st book > > of letters by Q. Horatius Flaccus: > > > > Let me continue my advice, if you need advice at all, > > - think often of what you say, and of whom, > > and to whom you say it. Avoid a questioner, for he > > is also a tattler. Open ears will not always keep secrets > > loyally, and the word once let slip flies beyond > > recall. Let no girl or boy within your worshipful > > friend's marble threshold inflame your heart, lest > > the owner of the pretty boy or dear girl make you > > happy with a present so trifling or torment you if > > disobliging. What sort of a person you introduce, > > consider again and again, lest by and by the > > other's failings strike you with shame. At times > > we err and present someone unworthy: therefore, if > > taken in, forbear to defend him whose own fault > > drags him down, in order that, if charges assail > > one you know thoroughly, you may watch over and > > protect the man who relies on your championship. > > For when he is nibbled at with Theon's tooth of > > slander, don't you feel that a little later the > > peril will pass to yourself? > > > > 'Tis your own safety > > that's at stake, when your neighbour's wall is in > > flames, and fires neglected are wont to gather > > strength. > > > > Best regards > > Svend > > > > www.niger-meteorite-recon.de > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >So much for the "dead" language.GEEZ...I can see why its now > > >dead..! Maybe we should get the Pope to translate it! > > >Kirk.. > > >- Original Message - > > >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > >Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 6:44 AM > > >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade? > > > > > > > > >Michael B. wrote: > > >>> While it appears there may be significant other issues in this case, > > >>> it is none of my business - nor anyone else's on the list, > > > > > >Michael, > > > > > >The central point is that the emotions and incredible sums of money and > > >meteorite transaction reputation involved here beg for an orderly > > >negotiation in > > >good faith by both parties' initiative - I think all unsolicited > > commenters > > >actually agree!! That's where the list could realistically provide > > >positive > > >inspiration to both parties. > > > > > >It seems to be getting harder and harder to draw the line between the > > >necessities and the excedents. I agree with you on many points and am > > sad > > >to see > > >how the positive ideas you int
Re: Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade? latin translated
Ofeely meboney belly vubiscum, Billy selly allhis dominos ...Sister Mary Elephant (Cheech and Chong) From: "Kirk Jenks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Meteorite List" Subject: Re: Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade? latin translated Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:08:31 -0500 Hi There, Thank you for the translation.butSorry...I see little beauty in Latin. Try French.merci beaucoup! Kirk - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:07 AM Subject: AW: Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade? latin translated A little more respect for the clear beauty of the Ablativus Absolutus! And as far as 'dead languages' are concerned: there will be a time when all our current languages will be dead ... However, here is a little translation of Dougs quotation from the 1st book of letters by Q. Horatius Flaccus: Let me continue my advice, if you need advice at all, - think often of what you say, and of whom, and to whom you say it. Avoid a questioner, for he is also a tattler. Open ears will not always keep secrets loyally, and the word once let slip flies beyond recall. Let no girl or boy within your worshipful friend's marble threshold inflame your heart, lest the owner of the pretty boy or dear girl make you happy with a present so trifling or torment you if disobliging. What sort of a person you introduce, consider again and again, lest by and by the other's failings strike you with shame. At times we err and present someone unworthy: therefore, if taken in, forbear to defend him whose own fault drags him down, in order that, if charges assail one you know thoroughly, you may watch over and protect the man who relies on your championship. For when he is nibbled at with Theon's tooth of slander, don't you feel that a little later the peril will pass to yourself? 'Tis your own safety that's at stake, when your neighbour's wall is in flames, and fires neglected are wont to gather strength. Best regards Svend www.niger-meteorite-recon.de >So much for the "dead" language.GEEZ...I can see why its now >dead..! Maybe we should get the Pope to translate it! >Kirk.. >- Original Message - >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; >Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 6:44 AM >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade? > > >Michael B. wrote: >>> While it appears there may be significant other issues in this case, >>> it is none of my business - nor anyone else's on the list, > >Michael, > >The central point is that the emotions and incredible sums of money and >meteorite transaction reputation involved here beg for an orderly >negotiation in >good faith by both parties' initiative - I think all unsolicited commenters >actually agree!! That's where the list could realistically provide >positive >inspiration to both parties. > >It seems to be getting harder and harder to draw the line between the >necessities and the excedents. I agree with you on many points and am sad >to see >how the positive ideas you integrated in your post are overlooked due to >some >of your other revolutionary suggestions which many don't necessarily share >but certainly some appreciate. While our conclusions may be different, I >think >you have a bullseye when you suggest that multiple viewpoints exist without >your commenting on justification or lack of it, and that encouraging dialog >is essential to break this impasse. I get the vibe that you suggest that >thirst for victory might be sweet by unchecked public flogging, but point >out we >are hopefully less savage in this age and I would add need the discipline >to >be respectful of our adversaries under all circumstances if we wish to >obtain clean equity. > >Since I support your ideas thus discussed, the variations we then have are >only academic. So as not to detract, I got to thinking of these verses, >which >perhaps some cultured linguist could help me through. Somehow they were >resurrected to life from the ashes falling out of my inbox after another >deletathon. I hope you at least agree with it to a point as applied. Damn >Horacio >who said it before - I certainly could not have said it better by any >means: > >Qualem commendes, etiam atque etiam aspice, ne mox >incutiant aliena tibi peccata pudorem. >Fallimur et quondam non dignum tradimus; ergo >quem sua culpa premet, deceptus omitte tueri, >ut penitus notum, si temptent crimina, serues >tuterisque tuo fidentem praesidio; qui >dente Theonino cum circumroditur, ecquid >ad te post paulo uentura
Re: Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade? latin translated
Hi There, Thank you for the translation.butSorry...I see little beauty in Latin. Try French.merci beaucoup! Kirk - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:07 AM Subject: AW: Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade? latin translated A little more respect for the clear beauty of the Ablativus Absolutus! And as far as 'dead languages' are concerned: there will be a time when all our current languages will be dead ... However, here is a little translation of Dougs quotation from the 1st book of letters by Q. Horatius Flaccus: Let me continue my advice, if you need advice at all, - think often of what you say, and of whom, and to whom you say it. Avoid a questioner, for he is also a tattler. Open ears will not always keep secrets loyally, and the word once let slip flies beyond recall. Let no girl or boy within your worshipful friend's marble threshold inflame your heart, lest the owner of the pretty boy or dear girl make you happy with a present so trifling or torment you if disobliging. What sort of a person you introduce, consider again and again, lest by and by the other's failings strike you with shame. At times we err and present someone unworthy: therefore, if taken in, forbear to defend him whose own fault drags him down, in order that, if charges assail one you know thoroughly, you may watch over and protect the man who relies on your championship. For when he is nibbled at with Theon's tooth of slander, don't you feel that a little later the peril will pass to yourself? 'Tis your own safety that's at stake, when your neighbour's wall is in flames, and fires neglected are wont to gather strength. Best regards Svend www.niger-meteorite-recon.de >So much for the "dead" language.GEEZ...I can see why its now >dead..! Maybe we should get the Pope to translate it! >Kirk.. >- Original Message - >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; >Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 6:44 AM >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade? > > >Michael B. wrote: >>> While it appears there may be significant other issues in this case, >>> it is none of my business - nor anyone else's on the list, > >Michael, > >The central point is that the emotions and incredible sums of money and >meteorite transaction reputation involved here beg for an orderly >negotiation in >good faith by both parties' initiative - I think all unsolicited commenters >actually agree!! That's where the list could realistically provide >positive >inspiration to both parties. > >It seems to be getting harder and harder to draw the line between the >necessities and the excedents. I agree with you on many points and am sad >to see >how the positive ideas you integrated in your post are overlooked due to >some >of your other revolutionary suggestions which many don't necessarily share >but certainly some appreciate. While our conclusions may be different, I >think >you have a bullseye when you suggest that multiple viewpoints exist without >your commenting on justification or lack of it, and that encouraging dialog >is essential to break this impasse. I get the vibe that you suggest that >thirst for victory might be sweet by unchecked public flogging, but point >out we >are hopefully less savage in this age and I would add need the discipline >to >be respectful of our adversaries under all circumstances if we wish to >obtain clean equity. > >Since I support your ideas thus discussed, the variations we then have are >only academic. So as not to detract, I got to thinking of these verses, >which >perhaps some cultured linguist could help me through. Somehow they were >resurrected to life from the ashes falling out of my inbox after another >deletathon. I hope you at least agree with it to a point as applied. Damn >Horacio >who said it before - I certainly could not have said it better by any >means: > >Qualem commendes, etiam atque etiam aspice, ne mox >incutiant aliena tibi peccata pudorem. >Fallimur et quondam non dignum tradimus; ergo >quem sua culpa premet, deceptus omitte tueri, >ut penitus notum, si temptent crimina, serues >tuterisque tuo fidentem praesidio; qui >dente Theonino cum circumroditur, ecquid >ad te post paulo uentura pericula sentis? > >¡¡ NAM TUA RES AGITUR, PARIES CUM PROXIMUS ARDET, >ET NEGLECTA SOLENT INCENDIA SUMERE UIRES !! > >Apologies for the plagerized Latin, but I would feel foolish attempting a >translation failing to do justice to these maxims. I thought you might >appreciate it Michael
AW: Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade? latin translated
A little more respect for the clear beauty of the Ablativus Absolutus! And as far as 'dead languages' are concerned: there will be a time when all our current languages will be dead ... However, here is a little translation of Dougs quotation from the 1st book of letters by Q. Horatius Flaccus: Let me continue my advice, if you need advice at all, - think often of what you say, and of whom, and to whom you say it. Avoid a questioner, for he is also a tattler. Open ears will not always keep secrets loyally, and the word once let slip flies beyond recall. Let no girl or boy within your worshipful friend's marble threshold inflame your heart, lest the owner of the pretty boy or dear girl make you happy with a present so trifling or torment you if disobliging. What sort of a person you introduce, consider again and again, lest by and by the other's failings strike you with shame. At times we err and present someone unworthy: therefore, if taken in, forbear to defend him whose own fault drags him down, in order that, if charges assail one you know thoroughly, you may watch over and protect the man who relies on your championship. For when he is nibbled at with Theon's tooth of slander, don't you feel that a little later the peril will pass to yourself? 'Tis your own safety that's at stake, when your neighbour's wall is in flames, and fires neglected are wont to gather strength. Best regards Svend www.niger-meteorite-recon.de >So much for the "dead" language.GEEZ...I can see why its now >dead..! Maybe we should get the Pope to translate it! >Kirk.. >- Original Message - >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; >Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 6:44 AM >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade? > > >Michael B. wrote: >>> While it appears there may be significant other issues in this case, >>> it is none of my business - nor anyone else's on the list, > >Michael, > >The central point is that the emotions and incredible sums of money and >meteorite transaction reputation involved here beg for an orderly >negotiation in >good faith by both parties' initiative - I think all unsolicited commenters >actually agree!! That's where the list could realistically provide >positive >inspiration to both parties. > >It seems to be getting harder and harder to draw the line between the >necessities and the excedents. I agree with you on many points and am sad >to see >how the positive ideas you integrated in your post are overlooked due to >some >of your other revolutionary suggestions which many don't necessarily share >but certainly some appreciate. While our conclusions may be different, I >think >you have a bullseye when you suggest that multiple viewpoints exist without >your commenting on justification or lack of it, and that encouraging dialog >is essential to break this impasse. I get the vibe that you suggest that >thirst for victory might be sweet by unchecked public flogging, but point >out we >are hopefully less savage in this age and I would add need the discipline >to >be respectful of our adversaries under all circumstances if we wish to >obtain clean equity. > >Since I support your ideas thus discussed, the variations we then have are >only academic. So as not to detract, I got to thinking of these verses, >which >perhaps some cultured linguist could help me through. Somehow they were >resurrected to life from the ashes falling out of my inbox after another >deletathon. I hope you at least agree with it to a point as applied. Damn >Horacio >who said it before - I certainly could not have said it better by any >means: > >Qualem commendes, etiam atque etiam aspice, ne mox >incutiant aliena tibi peccata pudorem. >Fallimur et quondam non dignum tradimus; ergo >quem sua culpa premet, deceptus omitte tueri, >ut penitus notum, si temptent crimina, serues >tuterisque tuo fidentem praesidio; qui >dente Theonino cum circumroditur, ecquid >ad te post paulo uentura pericula sentis? > >¡¡ NAM TUA RES AGITUR, PARIES CUM PROXIMUS ARDET, >ET NEGLECTA SOLENT INCENDIA SUMERE UIRES !! > >Apologies for the plagerized Latin, but I would feel foolish attempting a >translation failing to do justice to these maxims. I thought you might >appreciate it Michael as I picture Horacio melodically relating this stanza >to both >you and me in an olive garden where both participants boldly picked there >own >branches. I beg your pardon if I am mistaken or wrong to try to express my >sometimes eccentric thoughts, or if I am too long on the soapbox, or >putting >you to sleep. This t
Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade?
--- Michael L Blood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ha scritto: It > brings to mind when > multiple list members all had similar testimonials > about being fraudulently > mistreated by Matteo. > All unfounded shouting moved in turn from certain persons to defame my person. Probably jealous. Matteo M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale! http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade
I agree with Dave and Mike. We are a small community and phony or dishonest dealings need to be exposed. If the parties can settle out of our public arena, wonderful! When they can't and it appears that this has been a seriously long on going ordeal for both parties, then the meteorite community should offer help and support to remedy the situation, either by public exposure of an issue, or IMCA, or a dark shadow on the person (s) of suspect interest. At any rate, the meteorite community needs to help out if possible so sharing to the list IS a valid direction at this point and time in the failed transaction. Very best to all parties involved, including you! Dave F. IMCA 3864 Dave Carothers wrote: I'm afraid I have to agree with Mike Fowler on this and I couldn't state my rationale any better than what he states below. Dave IMCA 2052 - Original Message - From: "Mike Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Cc: "Mike Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 3:40 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade Dear Michael Blood, I couldn't disagree with you more on this issue. When transactions take place between members of the meteorite community there is a high degree of mutual trust involved. I trust the people I'm dealing with because I'm sure that the vast majority of them are intrinsically honest persons. I also trust members of the meteorite community I've NEVER DEALT WITH BEFORE, because the meteorite community is very small and I know that a dishonest person would not last long, because in a small community, bad news travels fast. I think McCartney Taylor did the right thing to bring this to a public forum because: 1) It gives all of us a heads up about a possible rotten apple in our midst. 2) It gives the other party a chance to state his case and correct the facts, or pay up as the case may be. I think this is much better than a bunch of private emails where the "accused" has no chance to respond, or even know he is being besmirched. My future trust in members of the meteorite community would be considerably reduced if I thought that cooks would not be exposed publicly. Sincerely, Mike Fowler Comment to all: I was very sad to see the original post regarding this private issue. As is almost always the case, it would also appear there is more than one side to the story, as Bob indicates below. This is an example of why private issues should not be brought up on the list and why people should be very hesitant about "taking sides" when they are. If the accusations have merit, they should have gone directly to the board of the IMCA, and I encourage both parties to pursue that action now. While it appears there may be significant other issues in this case, it is none of my business - nor anyone else's on the list, other than board members of the IMCA, if this issue is presented to them. I have had multiple interactions with both parties involved and found each of them to be, in every instance, honest, open and above board. Whatever there differences are - they are between the two of them and I hope they are able to resolve them. In any event, I hope we are not exposed to the issue further on this list. If it does go before the board of the IMCA, then, perhaps there will be action taken of which we will be made aware. As I said, however, even then, I would hope rather for an amicable resolution being reached leaving all parties satisfied, but in any event, off the list. Best wishes, Michael __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/377 - Release Date: 6/27/2006 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade?
Greetings, Besides this particular case, there seems to be another dealer who sold a specimen for a considerable amount of money that was suppose to be a certain type of meteorite. The sale was done before the classification. It was later learned that the meteorite was not what it was suppose to be (class type) but a more common (but rare) class type. When the buyer asked for a refund he was told that he should take it up with the source that the dealer bought from and that he (the dealer) didn't think he was liable. I am here to tell you that such misrepresented classes by a dealer that is in good standing, YOU are liable and should offer a refund. I think the buyer used bad judgment but probably thought the dealer was better than that. I have nothing in this transaction so as Michael said, it isn't any of my business. I am very disappointed in this dealer. I am sure many will ask for the name of the dealer but I won't mention this to anyone individual. I would be glad to talk to the IMCA (at least a member I respect) and give them the details. Such poor behavior can ruin it for everyone. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade?
So much for the "dead" language.GEEZ...I can see why its now dead..! Maybe we should get the Pope to translate it! Kirk.. - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 6:44 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade? Michael B. wrote: >> While it appears there may be significant other issues in this case, >> it is none of my business - nor anyone else's on the list, Michael, The central point is that the emotions and incredible sums of money and meteorite transaction reputation involved here beg for an orderly negotiation in good faith by both parties' initiative - I think all unsolicited commenters actually agree!! That's where the list could realistically provide positive inspiration to both parties. It seems to be getting harder and harder to draw the line between the necessities and the excedents. I agree with you on many points and am sad to see how the positive ideas you integrated in your post are overlooked due to some of your other revolutionary suggestions which many don't necessarily share but certainly some appreciate. While our conclusions may be different, I think you have a bullseye when you suggest that multiple viewpoints exist without your commenting on justification or lack of it, and that encouraging dialog is essential to break this impasse. I get the vibe that you suggest that thirst for victory might be sweet by unchecked public flogging, but point out we are hopefully less savage in this age and I would add need the discipline to be respectful of our adversaries under all circumstances if we wish to obtain clean equity. Since I support your ideas thus discussed, the variations we then have are only academic. So as not to detract, I got to thinking of these verses, which perhaps some cultured linguist could help me through. Somehow they were resurrected to life from the ashes falling out of my inbox after another deletathon. I hope you at least agree with it to a point as applied. Damn Horacio who said it before - I certainly could not have said it better by any means: Qualem commendes, etiam atque etiam aspice, ne mox incutiant aliena tibi peccata pudorem. Fallimur et quondam non dignum tradimus; ergo quem sua culpa premet, deceptus omitte tueri, ut penitus notum, si temptent crimina, serues tuterisque tuo fidentem praesidio; qui dente Theonino cum circumroditur, ecquid ad te post paulo uentura pericula sentis? ¡¡ NAM TUA RES AGITUR, PARIES CUM PROXIMUS ARDET, ET NEGLECTA SOLENT INCENDIA SUMERE UIRES !! Apologies for the plagerized Latin, but I would feel foolish attempting a translation failing to do justice to these maxims. I thought you might appreciate it Michael as I picture Horacio melodically relating this stanza to both you and me in an olive garden where both participants boldly picked there own branches. I beg your pardon if I am mistaken or wrong to try to express my sometimes eccentric thoughts, or if I am too long on the soapbox, or putting you to sleep. This time they concern a situation that could destroy most meteorite aficionados' collecting careers and scare many a collector into remission. The wall next door is aflame. Saludos, Doug P.S. I am agreeing less and less with these public floggings for the simple reason that the resolutions are rarely publicized. A responsible feedback mechanism should also include what finally happened IMO when dealing with the reputation of a fellow aficionado. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade?
Michael B. wrote: >> While it appears there may be significant other issues in this case, >> it is none of my business - nor anyone else's on the list, Michael, The central point is that the emotions and incredible sums of money and meteorite transaction reputation involved here beg for an orderly negotiation in good faith by both parties' initiative - I think all unsolicited commenters actually agree!! That's where the list could realistically provide positive inspiration to both parties. It seems to be getting harder and harder to draw the line between the necessities and the excedents. I agree with you on many points and am sad to see how the positive ideas you integrated in your post are overlooked due to some of your other revolutionary suggestions which many don't necessarily share but certainly some appreciate. While our conclusions may be different, I think you have a bullseye when you suggest that multiple viewpoints exist without your commenting on justification or lack of it, and that encouraging dialog is essential to break this impasse. I get the vibe that you suggest that thirst for victory might be sweet by unchecked public flogging, but point out we are hopefully less savage in this age and I would add need the discipline to be respectful of our adversaries under all circumstances if we wish to obtain clean equity. Since I support your ideas thus discussed, the variations we then have are only academic. So as not to detract, I got to thinking of these verses, which perhaps some cultured linguist could help me through. Somehow they were resurrected to life from the ashes falling out of my inbox after another deletathon. I hope you at least agree with it to a point as applied. Damn Horacio who said it before - I certainly could not have said it better by any means: Qualem commendes, etiam atque etiam aspice, ne mox incutiant aliena tibi peccata pudorem. Fallimur et quondam non dignum tradimus; ergo quem sua culpa premet, deceptus omitte tueri, ut penitus notum, si temptent crimina, serues tuterisque tuo fidentem praesidio; qui dente Theonino cum circumroditur, ecquid ad te post paulo uentura pericula sentis? ¡¡ NAM TUA RES AGITUR, PARIES CUM PROXIMUS ARDET, ET NEGLECTA SOLENT INCENDIA SUMERE UIRES !! Apologies for the plagerized Latin, but I would feel foolish attempting a translation failing to do justice to these maxims. I thought you might appreciate it Michael as I picture Horacio melodically relating this stanza to both you and me in an olive garden where both participants boldly picked there own branches. I beg your pardon if I am mistaken or wrong to try to express my sometimes eccentric thoughts, or if I am too long on the soapbox, or putting you to sleep. This time they concern a situation that could destroy most meteorite aficionados' collecting careers and scare many a collector into remission. The wall next door is aflame. Saludos, Doug P.S. I am agreeing less and less with these public floggings for the simple reason that the resolutions are rarely publicized. A responsible feedback mechanism should also include what finally happened IMO when dealing with the reputation of a fellow aficionado. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade?
Hi John & all, Well, this is sad, indeed. Now we have two very convincing testimonials by people of substance - Stefan Ralew and McCartney Taylor. Therefore, I find myself having to agree that there appears to be a problem that cannot be attributed to a relationship issue with unrevealed extenuating circumstances. These are two different accusations - both quite publicly stated, that give every indication of fraudulent behavior and which have very strong similarities in the reported modus of operation. It brings to mind when multiple list members all had similar testimonials about being fraudulently mistreated by Matteo. Therefore, if I do not read a public response by Bob Evans within the next 48 hrs that casts an entirely different light on these two unrelated, yet similar circumstances, I will sadly be removing him from my Meteorite Friends Page and will permanently cease conducting any business with him. If Bob is still reading the list I encourage him to share any and all circumstances that contradicts what has been publicly stated. (If he is not, I will be sending him a copy of this post). Best wishes, Michael on 6/28/06 1:00 AM, JKGwilliam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I also disagree with Michael Blood. Can we on one hand claim to be part of > a "meteorite community" promoting fairness and good faith and on the other > hand turn our heads when issues like this are brought to light? Don't we > all as a group have some sort of responsibility to applaud the honorable > meteorite folks and expose the frauds? If what McCartney said is true, Bob > Evan's had several opportunities to resolve the problem before it became a > public issue. > > I admit that I haven't done business with either McCartney or Bob, but I > know both of them casually and by reputation. And, if I had to make a call > on this issue, I'd have to ask some people who know the two of them better > than I do before I could make a decision. So, I sent out a few queries and > got back a dew replies. For those of you who are following this issue, you > might want to take a look at this item that was sent to me by a Met List > member. > > http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2004-July/162607.html > > Best, > > John Gwilliam > > At 10:03 PM 6/27/2006, Eric Twelker wrote: >> Michael, >> >> I don't often comment on this list, but I will this time to disagree. >> In this dispute the two sides are McCartney's detailed complaint and Bob >> Evans' email basically telling McCartney to stuff it. >> >> That's not what I or most people would consider "two sides" to a >> dispute. That's an abuse that people should know about and condemn. >> >> And what does the IMCA have to do with this. So far as I can see Bob >> Evans isn't a member--and perhaps the reason why is evident. >> >> Eric Twelker >> >>> Hi Mike and all, >>> Well, it just goes to demonstrate once more how there are more >>> than one side to every issue and each side can be "right" in its own >>> way and that doesn't necessarily make the other side "wrong." >>> Best wishes, Michael >>> >>> >>> >>> on 6/27/06 12:40 PM, Mike Fowler at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>> Dear Michael Blood, I couldn't disagree with you more on this issue. When transactions take place between members of the meteorite community there is a high degree of mutual trust involved. I trust the people I'm dealing with because I'm sure that the vast majority of them are intrinsically honest persons. I also trust members of the meteorite community I've NEVER DEALT WITH BEFORE, because the meteorite community is very small and I know that a dishonest person would not last long, because in a small community, bad news travels fast. I think McCartney Taylor did the right thing to bring this to a public forum because: 1)It gives all of us a heads up about a possible rotten apple in our midst. 2) It gives the other party a chance to state his case and correct the facts, or pay up as the case may be. I think this is much better than a bunch of private emails where the "accused" has no chance to respond, or even know he is being besmirched. My future trust in members of the meteorite community would be considerably reduced if I thought that cooks would not be exposed publicly. Sincerely, Mike Fowler > Comment to all: > I was very sad to see the original post regarding this private > issue. As is almost always the case, it would also appear there is > more > than one side to the story, as Bob indicates below. > This is an example of why private issues should not be brought > up on the list and why people should be very hesitant about "taking > sides" when they are. If the accusations have merit,
Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade?
I also disagree with Michael Blood. Can we on one hand claim to be part of a "meteorite community" promoting fairness and good faith and on the other hand turn our heads when issues like this are brought to light? Don't we all as a group have some sort of responsibility to applaud the honorable meteorite folks and expose the frauds? If what McCartney said is true, Bob Evan's had several opportunities to resolve the problem before it became a public issue. I admit that I haven't done business with either McCartney or Bob, but I know both of them casually and by reputation. And, if I had to make a call on this issue, I'd have to ask some people who know the two of them better than I do before I could make a decision. So, I sent out a few queries and got back a dew replies. For those of you who are following this issue, you might want to take a look at this item that was sent to me by a Met List member. http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2004-July/162607.html Best, John Gwilliam At 10:03 PM 6/27/2006, Eric Twelker wrote: Michael, I don't often comment on this list, but I will this time to disagree. In this dispute the two sides are McCartney's detailed complaint and Bob Evans' email basically telling McCartney to stuff it. That's not what I or most people would consider "two sides" to a dispute. That's an abuse that people should know about and condemn. And what does the IMCA have to do with this. So far as I can see Bob Evans isn't a member--and perhaps the reason why is evident. Eric Twelker > Hi Mike and all, > Well, it just goes to demonstrate once more how there are more > than one side to every issue and each side can be "right" in its own > way and that doesn't necessarily make the other side "wrong." > Best wishes, Michael > > > > on 6/27/06 12:40 PM, Mike Fowler at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> Dear Michael Blood, >> >> I couldn't disagree with you more on this issue. >> >> When transactions take place between members of the meteorite >> community there is a high degree of mutual trust involved. >> I trust the people I'm dealing with because I'm sure that the vast >> majority of them are intrinsically honest persons. >> >> I also trust members of the meteorite community I've NEVER DEALT WITH >> BEFORE, because the meteorite community is very small and I know that >> a dishonest person would not last long, because in a small community, >> bad news travels fast. >> >> I think McCartney Taylor did the right thing to bring this to a >> public forum because: >> >> 1)It gives all of us a heads up about a possible rotten apple in our >> midst. >> 2) It gives the other party a chance to state his case and correct >> the facts, or pay up as the case may be. >> >> I think this is much better than a bunch of private emails where the >> "accused" has no chance to respond, or even know he is being besmirched. >> >> My future trust in members of the meteorite community would be >> considerably reduced if I thought that cooks would not be exposed >> publicly. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Mike Fowler >> >>> Comment to all: >> >>> I was very sad to see the original post regarding this private >>> issue. As is almost always the case, it would also appear there is >>> more >>> than one side to the story, as Bob indicates below. >>> This is an example of why private issues should not be brought >>> up on the list and why people should be very hesitant about "taking >>> sides" when they are. If the accusations have merit, they should have >>> gone directly to the board of the IMCA, and I encourage both parties >>> to pursue that action now. >>> >>> While it appears there may be significant other issues in this case, >>> it is none of my business - nor anyone else's on the list, other >>> than board >>> members of the IMCA, if this issue is presented to them. >>> I have had multiple interactions with both parties involved and >>> found each of them to be, in every instance, honest, open and above >>> board. Whatever there differences are - they are between the two of >>> them >>> and I hope they are able to resolve them. In any event, I hope we >>> are not >>> exposed to the issue further on this list. If it does go before the >>> board of >>> the IMCA, then, perhaps there will be action taken of which we will be >>> made aware. As I said, however, even then, I would hope rather >>> for an amicable resolution being reached leaving all parties >>> satisfied, >>> but in any event, off the list. >>> >> >>> Best wishes, Michael >> __ >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteor
Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade?
Michael, I don't often comment on this list, but I will this time to disagree. In this dispute the two sides are McCartney's detailed complaint and Bob Evans' email basically telling McCartney to stuff it. That's not what I or most people would consider "two sides" to a dispute. That's an abuse that people should know about and condemn. And what does the IMCA have to do with this. So far as I can see Bob Evans isn't a member--and perhaps the reason why is evident. Eric Twelker > Hi Mike and all, > Well, it just goes to demonstrate once more how there are more > than one side to every issue and each side can be "right" in its own > way and that doesn't necessarily make the other side "wrong." > Best wishes, Michael > > > > on 6/27/06 12:40 PM, Mike Fowler at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> Dear Michael Blood, >> >> I couldn't disagree with you more on this issue. >> >> When transactions take place between members of the meteorite >> community there is a high degree of mutual trust involved. >> I trust the people I'm dealing with because I'm sure that the vast >> majority of them are intrinsically honest persons. >> >> I also trust members of the meteorite community I've NEVER DEALT WITH >> BEFORE, because the meteorite community is very small and I know that >> a dishonest person would not last long, because in a small community, >> bad news travels fast. >> >> I think McCartney Taylor did the right thing to bring this to a >> public forum because: >> >> 1)It gives all of us a heads up about a possible rotten apple in our >> midst. >> 2) It gives the other party a chance to state his case and correct >> the facts, or pay up as the case may be. >> >> I think this is much better than a bunch of private emails where the >> "accused" has no chance to respond, or even know he is being besmirched. >> >> My future trust in members of the meteorite community would be >> considerably reduced if I thought that cooks would not be exposed >> publicly. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Mike Fowler >> >>> Comment to all: >> >>> I was very sad to see the original post regarding this private >>> issue. As is almost always the case, it would also appear there is >>> more >>> than one side to the story, as Bob indicates below. >>> This is an example of why private issues should not be brought >>> up on the list and why people should be very hesitant about "taking >>> sides" when they are. If the accusations have merit, they should have >>> gone directly to the board of the IMCA, and I encourage both parties >>> to pursue that action now. >>> >>> While it appears there may be significant other issues in this case, >>> it is none of my business - nor anyone else's on the list, other >>> than board >>> members of the IMCA, if this issue is presented to them. >>> I have had multiple interactions with both parties involved and >>> found each of them to be, in every instance, honest, open and above >>> board. Whatever there differences are - they are between the two of >>> them >>> and I hope they are able to resolve them. In any event, I hope we >>> are not >>> exposed to the issue further on this list. If it does go before the >>> board of >>> the IMCA, then, perhaps there will be action taken of which we will be >>> made aware. As I said, however, even then, I would hope rather >>> for an amicable resolution being reached leaving all parties >>> satisfied, >>> but in any event, off the list. >>> >> >>> Best wishes, Michael >> __ >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade?
Hi Mike and all, Well, it just goes to demonstrate once more how there are more than one side to every issue and each side can be "right" in its own way and that doesn't necessarily make the other side "wrong." Best wishes, Michael on 6/27/06 12:40 PM, Mike Fowler at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Dear Michael Blood, > > I couldn't disagree with you more on this issue. > > When transactions take place between members of the meteorite > community there is a high degree of mutual trust involved. > I trust the people I'm dealing with because I'm sure that the vast > majority of them are intrinsically honest persons. > > I also trust members of the meteorite community I've NEVER DEALT WITH > BEFORE, because the meteorite community is very small and I know that > a dishonest person would not last long, because in a small community, > bad news travels fast. > > I think McCartney Taylor did the right thing to bring this to a > public forum because: > > 1)It gives all of us a heads up about a possible rotten apple in our > midst. > 2) It gives the other party a chance to state his case and correct > the facts, or pay up as the case may be. > > I think this is much better than a bunch of private emails where the > "accused" has no chance to respond, or even know he is being besmirched. > > My future trust in members of the meteorite community would be > considerably reduced if I thought that cooks would not be exposed > publicly. > > Sincerely, > > Mike Fowler > >> Comment to all: > >> I was very sad to see the original post regarding this private >> issue. As is almost always the case, it would also appear there is >> more >> than one side to the story, as Bob indicates below. >> This is an example of why private issues should not be brought >> up on the list and why people should be very hesitant about "taking >> sides" when they are. If the accusations have merit, they should have >> gone directly to the board of the IMCA, and I encourage both parties >> to pursue that action now. >> >> While it appears there may be significant other issues in this case, >> it is none of my business - nor anyone else's on the list, other >> than board >> members of the IMCA, if this issue is presented to them. >> I have had multiple interactions with both parties involved and >> found each of them to be, in every instance, honest, open and above >> board. Whatever there differences are - they are between the two of >> them >> and I hope they are able to resolve them. In any event, I hope we >> are not >> exposed to the issue further on this list. If it does go before the >> board of >> the IMCA, then, perhaps there will be action taken of which we will be >> made aware. As I said, however, even then, I would hope rather >> for an amicable resolution being reached leaving all parties >> satisfied, >> but in any event, off the list. >> > >> Best wishes, Michael > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- "He is not a lover who does not love forever." - Euripides (485-406BC) -- * If Jimmy cracks corn and no one cares, why is there a song about him? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade
I'm afraid I have to agree with Mike Fowler on this and I couldn't state my rationale any better than what he states below. Dave IMCA 2052 - Original Message - From: "Mike Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Cc: "Mike Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 3:40 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade > Dear Michael Blood, > > I couldn't disagree with you more on this issue. > > When transactions take place between members of the meteorite > community there is a high degree of mutual trust involved. > I trust the people I'm dealing with because I'm sure that the vast > majority of them are intrinsically honest persons. > > I also trust members of the meteorite community I've NEVER DEALT WITH > BEFORE, because the meteorite community is very small and I know that > a dishonest person would not last long, because in a small community, > bad news travels fast. > > I think McCartney Taylor did the right thing to bring this to a > public forum because: > > 1) It gives all of us a heads up about a possible rotten apple in our > midst. > 2) It gives the other party a chance to state his case and correct > the facts, or pay up as the case may be. > > I think this is much better than a bunch of private emails where the > "accused" has no chance to respond, or even know he is being besmirched. > > My future trust in members of the meteorite community would be > considerably reduced if I thought that cooks would not be exposed > publicly. > > Sincerely, > > Mike Fowler > > > Comment to all: > > > I was very sad to see the original post regarding this private > > issue. As is almost always the case, it would also appear there is > > more > > than one side to the story, as Bob indicates below. > > This is an example of why private issues should not be brought > > up on the list and why people should be very hesitant about "taking > > sides" when they are. If the accusations have merit, they should have > > gone directly to the board of the IMCA, and I encourage both parties > > to pursue that action now. > > > > While it appears there may be significant other issues in this case, > > it is none of my business - nor anyone else's on the list, other > > than board > > members of the IMCA, if this issue is presented to them. > > I have had multiple interactions with both parties involved and > > found each of them to be, in every instance, honest, open and above > > board. Whatever there differences are - they are between the two of > > them > > and I hope they are able to resolve them. In any event, I hope we > > are not > > exposed to the issue further on this list. If it does go before the > > board of > > the IMCA, then, perhaps there will be action taken of which we will be > > made aware. As I said, however, even then, I would hope rather > > for an amicable resolution being reached leaving all parties > > satisfied, > > but in any event, off the list. > > > > > Best wishes, Michael > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/377 - Release Date: 6/27/2006 > > __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade
Comment to all: I was very sad to see the original post regarding this private issue. As is almost always the case, it would also appear there is more than one side to the story, as Bob indicates below. This is an example of why private issues should not be brought up on the list and why people should be very hesitant about "taking sides" when they are. If the accusations have merit, they should have gone directly to the board of the IMCA, and I encourage both parties to pursue that action now. While it appears there may be significant other issues in this case, it is none of my business - nor anyone else's on the list, other than board members of the IMCA, if this issue is presented to them. I have had multiple interactions with both parties involved and found each of them to be, in every instance, honest, open and above board. Whatever there differences are - they are between the two of them and I hope they are able to resolve them. In any event, I hope we are not exposed to the issue further on this list. If it does go before the board of the IMCA, then, perhaps there will be action taken of which we will be made aware. As I said, however, even then, I would hope rather for an amicable resolution being reached leaving all parties satisfied, but in any event, off the list. Best wishes, Michael on 6/26/06 10:01 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > McCartney, > Thanks for bringing my personal life to a public forum. > I will be happy to see you in court. Meanwhile please return the Martian and > the Diogenite. > For those of you who have dealt with me with absolutely no problem I > appologize for this being brought to the list. > I will continue to offer the best quality authentic material that i can. Many > of you have appreciated what I have had to offer so far. > > Bill, pull your head out of where the sun doesnt shine. You have no business > questioning thr authenticity of any meteorites. Some of the top meteorite > dealers in the world knew how successful I was in Park Forest. So, please back > up your conjecture with some facts please. > > Thanks > Bob Evans ( Not the Restaurant owner ) > __ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- "He is not a lover who does not love forever." - Euripides (485-406BC) -- * If Jimmy cracks corn and no one cares, why is there a song about him? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
