Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
BaNCS There are many parallels. ;-) Mendy Ouzillou On Jan 24, 2013, at 5:26 PM, "Paul Gessler" wrote: How shall we organize the new class of Martian? Until now it has been SNC How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? SNCB What say you all? -Paul Gessler __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
Maybe SNBC would be good. Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone RSS - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 - On 1/24/13, Paul Gessler wrote: > How shall we organize the new class of Martian? > > Until now it has been SNC > > How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? > > SNCB > > What say you all? > > -Paul Gessler > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
Hi Paul, I like the "SNCB". It sounds like a radio station's call letters...Stay tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from SNCB. Regards, Fred H. > How shall we organize the new class of Martian? > > Until now it has been SNC > > How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? > > SNCB > > What say you all? > > -Paul Gessler > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite. SNCPB? If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about CANNS? Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian meteorites? Jeff On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote: Hi Paul, I like the "SNCB". It sounds like a radio station's call letters...Stay tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from SNCB. Regards, Fred H. How shall we organize the new class of Martian? Until now it has been SNC How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? SNCB What say you all? -Paul Gessler __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
Yes Jeff, maybe dropping the acronym and just calling them all Martian may be the sensible thing. After all, you don't want the general public SNCering at us, do ya? gary On Jan 25, 2013, at 5:43 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote: > Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite. > > SNCPB? > > If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about CANNS? > > Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian > meteorites? > > Jeff > > On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote: >> Hi Paul, >>I like the "SNCB". It sounds like a radio station's call letters...Stay >> tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from SNCB. >> Regards, Fred H. >> >>> How shall we organize the new class of Martian? >>> >>> Until now it has been SNC >>> >>> How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? >>> >>> SNCB >>> >>> What say you all? >>> >>> -Paul Gessler >>> __ >>> >>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> >> __ >> >> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Gary Fujihara Big Kahuna Meteorites PO Box 4175, Hilo, HI 96720 (808) 640-9161 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/ http://www.ebay.com/sch/fujmon/m.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
Jeff, Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new name based on locality: I propose "saharaite". So we now have the meteorites from Mars or "SCANS" S: shergottite C: chassignite A: ALH 84001 N: nakhlite S: saharaite Enjoy! Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ --- Message: 19 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500 From: Jeff Grossman Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: <5102a808.5040...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite. SNCPB? If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about CANNS? Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian meteorites? Jeff On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote: > Hi Paul, > I like the "SNCB". It sounds like a radio station's call letters...Stay > tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from SNCB. > Regards, Fred H. > >> How shall we organize the new class of Martian? >> >> Until now it has been SNC >> >> How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? >> >> SNCB >> >> What say you all? >> >> -Paul Gessler >> __ >> >> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
...or "SNACS" ? (close to "snick", sometimes supposed being the popular pronounciation of the former "SNC") Of course, I second "Saharaite", (always favoring a name over a number) Incidentally the former proposal "SNCB" appears a little funny, almost ridiculous to us Belgian citizens, bacause "SNCB" is here the well known abbreviation for "Société Nationale des Chemins de fer Belges" (our National Railway Society)... Funny discussion Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Carl Agee a écrit : Jeff, Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new name based on locality: I propose "saharaite". So we now have the meteorites from Mars or "SCANS" S: shergottite C: chassignite A: ALH 84001 N: nakhlite S: saharaite Enjoy! Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ ------- Message: 19 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500 From: Jeff Grossman Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: <5102a808.5040...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite. SNCPB? If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about CANNS? Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian meteorites? Jeff On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote: Hi Paul, I like the "SNCB". It sounds like a radio station's call letters...Stay tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from SNCB. Regards, Fred H. How shall we organize the new class of Martian? Until now it has been SNC How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? SNCB What say you all? -Paul Gessler __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
Hi Carl, It is lunch time for us Floridians so I am just taking a break and munching on some SNACS... Seriously, What is the current count of NWA 7034 'official' pairings and how many stones constitute each of those? We have all heard of 'paired' stones making the current stone count at about a dozen or so "IF" they are indeed paired to NWA 7034. We have been hearing and seeing images of stones offered from Moroccan dealers as pairings. If I read it all correctly, the original single 320g stone was the first "NWA 7034" one. Are the three stones pictured in all of the press releases part of one stone that adds up to 320 grams? If not, what are the weights of the additional two stones and/or do they each have their own NWA numbers? Also, I heard there is a 240 gram stone with the owner of the first 320g stone, has this been confirmed yet? The only 'officially' paired stone that I am aware of is NWA 7533 weighing in at 84 grams. If all of the stones that are 'guaranteed' paired to NWA 7034 by Moroccan dealers, the combined weight is exceeding 1000 grams which is pretty cool for such a unique meteorite! Congrats again to all involved in bringing this new Martian meteorite to light! Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog & Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest & eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Carl Agee Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 11:33 AM To: meteoritelist meteoritelist Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Jeff, Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new name based on locality: I propose "saharaite". So we now have the meteorites from Mars or "SCANS" S: shergottite C: chassignite A: ALH 84001 N: nakhlite S: saharaite Enjoy! Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ ------- Message: 19 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500 From: Jeff Grossman Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: <5102a808.5040...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite. SNCPB? If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about CANNS? Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian meteorites? Jeff On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote: Hi Paul, I like the "SNCB". It sounds like a radio station's call letters...Stay tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from SNCB. Regards, Fred H. How shall we organize the new class of Martian? Until now it has been SNC How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? SNCB What say you all? -Paul Gessler __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
Ha! That's classic, Greg! I like! Jim On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: > Hi Carl, > > It is lunch time for us Floridians so I am just taking a break and munching > on some SNACS... > > Seriously, What is the current count of NWA 7034 'official' pairings and how > many stones constitute each of those? We have all heard of 'paired' stones > making the current stone count at about a dozen or so "IF" they are indeed > paired to NWA 7034. We have been hearing and seeing images of stones offered > from Moroccan dealers as pairings. > > If I read it all correctly, the original single 320g stone was the first > "NWA 7034" one. Are the three stones pictured in all of the press releases > part of one stone that adds up to 320 grams? If not, what are the weights of > the additional two stones and/or do they each have their own NWA numbers? > Also, I heard there is a 240 gram stone with the owner of the first 320g > stone, has this been confirmed yet? > > The only 'officially' paired stone that I am aware of is NWA 7533 weighing > in at 84 grams. > > If all of the stones that are 'guaranteed' paired to NWA 7034 by Moroccan > dealers, the combined weight is exceeding 1000 grams which is pretty cool > for such a unique meteorite! > > Congrats again to all involved in bringing this new Martian meteorite to > light! > > Best Regards, > Greg > > > Greg Hupé > The Hupé Collection > gmh...@centurylink.net > www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog & Reference Site) > www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) > NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest & eBay) > http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault > http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault > IMCA 3163 > > Click here for my current eBay auctions: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > > -Original Message- From: Carl Agee > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 11:33 AM > To: meteoritelist meteoritelist > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 > > Jeff, > > Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people > do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new > Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic > measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new > name based on locality: I propose "saharaite". So we now have the > meteorites from Mars or "SCANS" > > S: shergottite > C: chassignite > A: ALH 84001 > N: nakhlite > S: saharaite > > Enjoy! > > Carl Agee > > > -- > Carl B. Agee > Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics > Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences > MSC03 2050 > University of New Mexico > Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 > > Tel: (505) 750-7172 > Fax: (505) 277-3577 > Email: a...@unm.edu > http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ > > > --- > Message: 19 > Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500 > From: Jeff Grossman > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Message-ID: <5102a808.5040...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite. > > SNCPB? > > If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about CANNS? > > Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian > meteorites? > > Jeff > > On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote: >> >> Hi Paul, >> I like the "SNCB". It sounds like a radio station's call >> letters...Stay >> tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from SNCB. >> Regards, Fred H. >> >>> How shall we organize the new class of Martian? >>> >>> Until now it has been SNC >>> >>> How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? >>> >>> SNCB >>> >>> What say you all? >>> >>> -Paul Gessler >>> __ >>> >>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> >> __ >> >> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
If you go with Habibite we could call them SHACN (pronounced shaken) . shake, rattle and roll. Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers "Greg Hupé" wrote: > Hi Carl, > > It is lunch time for us Floridians so I am just taking a break and munching > on some SNACS... > > Seriously, What is the current count of NWA 7034 'official' pairings and how > many stones constitute each of those? We have all heard of 'paired' stones > making the current stone count at about a dozen or so "IF" they are indeed > paired to NWA 7034. We have been hearing and seeing images of stones offered > from Moroccan dealers as pairings. > > If I read it all correctly, the original single 320g stone was the first > "NWA 7034" one. Are the three stones pictured in all of the press releases > part of one stone that adds up to 320 grams? If not, what are the weights of > the additional two stones and/or do they each have their own NWA numbers? > Also, I heard there is a 240 gram stone with the owner of the first 320g > stone, has this been confirmed yet? > > The only 'officially' paired stone that I am aware of is NWA 7533 weighing > in at 84 grams. > > If all of the stones that are 'guaranteed' paired to NWA 7034 by Moroccan > dealers, the combined weight is exceeding 1000 grams which is pretty cool > for such a unique meteorite! > > Congrats again to all involved in bringing this new Martian meteorite to > light! > > Best Regards, > Greg > > > Greg Hupé > The Hupé Collection > gmh...@centurylink.net > www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog & Reference Site) > www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) > NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest & eBay) > http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault > http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault > IMCA 3163 > > Click here for my current eBay auctions: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > > -Original Message- > From: Carl Agee > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 11:33 AM > To: meteoritelist meteoritelist > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 > > Jeff, > > Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people > do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new > Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic > measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new > name based on locality: I propose "saharaite". So we now have the > meteorites from Mars or "SCANS" > > S: shergottite > C: chassignite > A: ALH 84001 > N: nakhlite > S: saharaite > > Enjoy! > > Carl Agee > > > -- > Carl B. Agee > Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics > Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences > MSC03 2050 > University of New Mexico > Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 > > Tel: (505) 750-7172 > Fax: (505) 277-3577 > Email: a...@unm.edu > http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ > > > --- > Message: 19 > Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500 > From: Jeff Grossman > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Message-ID: <5102a808.5040...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite. > > SNCPB? > > If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about CANNS? > > Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian > meteorites? > > Jeff > > On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote: > > Hi Paul, > > I like the "SNCB". It sounds like a radio station's call > > letters...Stay > > tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from SNCB. > > Regards, Fred H. > > > >> How shall we organize the new class of Martian? > >> > >> Until now it has been SNC > >> > >> How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? > >> > >> SNCB > >> > >> What say you all? > >> > >> -Paul Gessler > >> __ > >> > >> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > > > > __ > > > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
Hi Greg, The NWA 7034 "main mass" is the original ~320g single stone "Black Beauty" that I started working on back in August of 2011. For a while I thought it was the only one in existence, but over the past few months more stones, all smaller than 320, have been recovered. The two additional stones that I have personally inspected are 107.5g and 65g. So that is 492g, plus the 84g pairing NWA 7533 (which by the way is geochemically identical to NWA 7034 and clearly from the same meteoroid). I have recently seen photos of additional stones, so you are correct that the Black Beauty TKW is probably a bit more than 1kg. When the dust settles, I hope to revise the NWA 7034 write-up in MetBull and list the TKW. Personally, I think it is very confusing to have a bunch of NWA# pairings, when all these stones are so clearly pieces of the same rock, they are unlike any other meteorite both in hand sample and geochemically. By the way, we will be presenting new data at LPSC (not in the Science paper) on noble gases that have been measured in NWA 7034, which are a match for Viking measurements of Martian atmosphere. Also the cosmic ray exposure age is likely ~5 my, the size of the NWA 7034 meteoroid in interplanetary space (before Earth entry) is estimated at diameter ~50 cm, so anyone hoping that there are many 10s of kg of Black Beauty on the ground in the Saraha will be disappointed. Thanks, Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: > Hi Carl, > > It is lunch time for us Floridians so I am just taking a break and munching > on some SNACS... > > Seriously, What is the current count of NWA 7034 'official' pairings and how > many stones constitute each of those? We have all heard of 'paired' stones > making the current stone count at about a dozen or so "IF" they are indeed > paired to NWA 7034. We have been hearing and seeing images of stones offered > from Moroccan dealers as pairings. > > If I read it all correctly, the original single 320g stone was the first > "NWA 7034" one. Are the three stones pictured in all of the press releases > part of one stone that adds up to 320 grams? If not, what are the weights of > the additional two stones and/or do they each have their own NWA numbers? > Also, I heard there is a 240 gram stone with the owner of the first 320g > stone, has this been confirmed yet? > > The only 'officially' paired stone that I am aware of is NWA 7533 weighing > in at 84 grams. > > If all of the stones that are 'guaranteed' paired to NWA 7034 by Moroccan > dealers, the combined weight is exceeding 1000 grams which is pretty cool > for such a unique meteorite! > > Congrats again to all involved in bringing this new Martian meteorite to > light! > > Best Regards, > Greg > > > Greg Hupé > The Hupé Collection > gmh...@centurylink.net > www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog & Reference Site) > www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) > NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest & eBay) > http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault > http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault > IMCA 3163 > > Click here for my current eBay auctions: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > > -Original Message- From: Carl Agee > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 11:33 AM > To: meteoritelist meteoritelist > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 > > Jeff, > > Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people > do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new > Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic > measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new > name based on locality: I propose "saharaite". So we now have the > meteorites from Mars or "SCANS" > > S: shergottite > C: chassignite > A: ALH 84001 > N: nakhlite > S: saharaite > > Enjoy! > > Carl Agee > > > -- > Carl B. Agee > Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics > Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences > MSC03 2050 > University of New Mexico > Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 > > Tel: (505) 750-7172 > Fax: (505) 277-3577 > Email: a...@unm.edu > http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ > > > --- > Message: 19 > Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500 > From: Jeff Grossman > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 >
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
Thanks a lot for the information, Carl. I can't wait to read more in six days. Does the CRE-age of ~5 My mean that NWA 7034 probably represents a new impact event or could it somehow be related to the shergottites Y793605 and Y27 with their ejection age of ~4.70 ± 0.50 My? Best regards, Martin Von: Carl Agee An: Greg Hupé Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Datum: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 19:19:34 +0100 Hi Greg, The NWA 7034 "main mass" is the original ~320g single stone "Black Beauty" that I started working on back in August of 2011. For a while I thought it was the only one in existence, but over the past few months more stones, all smaller than 320, have been recovered. The two additional stones that I have personally inspected are 107.5g and 65g. So that is 492g, plus the 84g pairing NWA 7533 (which by the way is geochemically identical to NWA 7034 and clearly from the same meteoroid). I have recently seen photos of additional stones, so you are correct that the Black Beauty TKW is probably a bit more than 1kg. When the dust settles, I hope to revise the NWA 7034 write-up in MetBull and list the TKW. Personally, I think it is very confusing to have a bunch of NWA# pairings, when all these stones are so clearly pieces of the same rock, they are unlike any other meteorite both in hand sample and geochemically. By the way, we will be presenting new data at LPSC (not in the Science paper) on noble gases that have been measured in NWA 7034, which are a match for Viking measurements of Martian atmosphere. Also the cosmic ray exposure age is likely ~5 my, the size of the NWA 7034 meteoroid in interplanetary space (before Earth entry) is estimated at diameter ~50 cm, so anyone hoping that there are many 10s of kg of Black Beauty on the ground in the Saraha will be disappointed. Thanks, Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: > Hi Carl, > > It is lunch time for us Floridians so I am just taking a break and munching > on some SNACS... > > Seriously, What is the current count of NWA 7034 'official' pairings and how > many stones constitute each of those? We have all heard of 'paired' stones > making the current stone count at about a dozen or so "IF" they are indeed > paired to NWA 7034. We have been hearing and seeing images of stones offered > from Moroccan dealers as pairings. > > If I read it all correctly, the original single 320g stone was the first > "NWA 7034" one. Are the three stones pictured in all of the press releases > part of one stone that adds up to 320 grams? If not, what are the weights of > the additional two stones and/or do they each have their own NWA numbers? > Also, I heard there is a 240 gram stone with the owner of the first 320g > stone, has this been confirmed yet? > > The only 'officially' paired stone that I am aware of is NWA 7533 weighing > in at 84 grams. > > If all of the stones that are 'guaranteed' paired to NWA 7034 by Moroccan > dealers, the combined weight is exceeding 1000 grams which is pretty cool > for such a unique meteorite! > > Congrats again to all involved in bringing this new Martian meteorite to > light! > > Best Regards, > Greg > > > Greg Hupé > The Hupé Collection > gmh...@centurylink.net > www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog & Reference Site) > www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) > NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest & eBay) > http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault > http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault > IMCA 3163 > > Click here for my current eBay auctions: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > > -Original Message- From: Carl Agee > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 11:33 AM > To: meteoritelist meteoritelist > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 > > Jeff, > > Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people > do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new > Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic > measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new > name based on locality: I propose "saharaite". So we now have the > meteorites from Mars or "SCANS" > > S: shergottite > C: chassignite > A: ALH 84001 > N: nakhlite > S: saharaite >
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
Carl, Greg, It's my understanding the names of meteorites, once determined they pair to another, should then have the same name, eliminating one of the names. Is this not correct??? Cheers! Jim On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Carl Agee wrote: > Hi Greg, > > The NWA 7034 "main mass" is the original ~320g single stone "Black > Beauty" that I started working on back in August of 2011. For a while > I thought it was the only one in existence, but over the past few > months more stones, all smaller than 320, have been recovered. The two > additional stones that I have personally inspected are 107.5g and 65g. > So that is 492g, plus the 84g pairing NWA 7533 (which by the way is > geochemically identical to NWA 7034 and clearly from the same > meteoroid). I have recently seen photos of additional stones, so you > are correct that the Black Beauty TKW is probably a bit more than 1kg. > When the dust settles, I hope to revise the NWA 7034 write-up in > MetBull and list the TKW. Personally, I think it is very confusing to > have a bunch of NWA# pairings, when all these stones are so clearly > pieces of the same rock, they are unlike any other meteorite both in > hand sample and geochemically. > > By the way, we will be presenting new data at LPSC (not in the Science > paper) on noble gases that have been measured in NWA 7034, which are a > match for Viking measurements of Martian atmosphere. Also the cosmic > ray exposure age is likely ~5 my, the size of the NWA 7034 meteoroid > in interplanetary space (before Earth entry) is estimated at diameter > ~50 cm, so anyone hoping that there are many 10s of kg of Black Beauty > on the ground in the Saraha will be disappointed. > > Thanks, > > Carl Agee > > -- > Carl B. Agee > Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics > Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences > MSC03 2050 > University of New Mexico > Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 > > Tel: (505) 750-7172 > Fax: (505) 277-3577 > Email: a...@unm.edu > http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ > > > On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: >> Hi Carl, >> >> It is lunch time for us Floridians so I am just taking a break and munching >> on some SNACS... >> >> Seriously, What is the current count of NWA 7034 'official' pairings and how >> many stones constitute each of those? We have all heard of 'paired' stones >> making the current stone count at about a dozen or so "IF" they are indeed >> paired to NWA 7034. We have been hearing and seeing images of stones offered >> from Moroccan dealers as pairings. >> >> If I read it all correctly, the original single 320g stone was the first >> "NWA 7034" one. Are the three stones pictured in all of the press releases >> part of one stone that adds up to 320 grams? If not, what are the weights of >> the additional two stones and/or do they each have their own NWA numbers? >> Also, I heard there is a 240 gram stone with the owner of the first 320g >> stone, has this been confirmed yet? >> >> The only 'officially' paired stone that I am aware of is NWA 7533 weighing >> in at 84 grams. >> >> If all of the stones that are 'guaranteed' paired to NWA 7034 by Moroccan >> dealers, the combined weight is exceeding 1000 grams which is pretty cool >> for such a unique meteorite! >> >> Congrats again to all involved in bringing this new Martian meteorite to >> light! >> >> Best Regards, >> Greg >> >> >> Greg Hupé >> The Hupé Collection >> gmh...@centurylink.net >> www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog & Reference Site) >> www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) >> NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest & eBay) >> http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault >> http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault >> IMCA 3163 >> >> Click here for my current eBay auctions: >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault >> >> >> >> -Original Message- From: Carl Agee >> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 11:33 AM >> To: meteoritelist meteoritelist >> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 >> >> Jeff, >> >> Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people >> do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new >> Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic >> measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new >> name based on locality: I propose "saharaite". So we now have the >> meteorites
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
Please, No, no more acronyms! The world is being invaded by those meaningless, un-translatable monstrosities. Lets make it simple. We have had for a long time such a thing as: Achondrite Eucrite Polymict Breccia. Now we can have: Achondrite Martian Basaltic Breccia. Simple as that. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Carl Agee To: meteoritelist meteoritelist Sent: Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:33 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Jeff, Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new name based on locality: I propose "saharaite". So we now have the meteorites from Mars or "SCANS" S: shergottite C: chassignite A: ALH 84001 N: nakhlite S: saharaite Enjoy! Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ --- Message: 19 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500 From: Jeff Grossman Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: <5102a808.5040...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite. SNCPB? If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about CANNS? Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian meteorites? Jeff On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote: Hi Paul, I like the "SNCB". It sounds like a radio station's call letters...Stay tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from SNCB. Regards, Fred H. How shall we organize the new class of Martian? Until now it has been SNC How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? SNCB What say you all? -Paul Gessler __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
Hi Martin, Here is an excerpt from our noble gas abstract for NWA 7034, Cartwright et al.: "We obtain T3, T21 and T38 ages of 5.1 Ma, 11.4 Ma and 5.4 Ma respectively. The older T21 age may result from heteorgeniety of target elements like Ca and Mg within the breccia. T3 has little dependency on chemical composition (and T38 also less than T21), and with elevated 4He concenrations, perhaps 3He loss was minimal, and thus this age real. A CRE age > 5 Ma is older than observed previously for shergottite CRE ages, though the 11.4Ma age is similar to Nakhlite / Chassigny CRE ages." So it's not carved in stone quite yet... Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 11:41 AM, karmaka wrote: > Thanks a lot for the information, Carl. > > I can't wait to read more in six days. > > Does the CRE-age of ~5 My mean that NWA 7034 probably represents a new > impact event or could it somehow be related to the shergottites Y793605 and > Y27 with their ejection age of ~4.70 ± 0.50 My? > > Best regards, > > Martin > > Von: Carl Agee > An: Greg Hupé > Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 > Datum: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 19:19:34 +0100 > > Hi Greg, > > The NWA 7034 "main mass" is the original ~320g single stone "Black > Beauty" that I started working on back in August of 2011. For a while > I thought it was the only one in existence, but over the past few > months more stones, all smaller than 320, have been recovered. The two > additional stones that I have personally inspected are 107.5g and 65g. > So that is 492g, plus the 84g pairing NWA 7533 (which by the way is > geochemically identical to NWA 7034 and clearly from the same > meteoroid). I have recently seen photos of additional stones, so you > are correct that the Black Beauty TKW is probably a bit more than 1kg. > When the dust settles, I hope to revise the NWA 7034 write-up in > MetBull and list the TKW. Personally, I think it is very confusing to > have a bunch of NWA# pairings, when all these stones are so clearly > pieces of the same rock, they are unlike any other meteorite both in > hand sample and geochemically. > > By the way, we will be presenting new data at LPSC (not in the Science > paper) on noble gases that have been measured in NWA 7034, which are a > match for Viking measurements of Martian atmosphere. Also the cosmic > ray exposure age is likely ~5 my, the size of the NWA 7034 meteoroid > in interplanetary space (before Earth entry) is estimated at diameter > ~50 cm, so anyone hoping that there are many 10s of kg of Black Beauty > on the ground in the Saraha will be disappointed. > > Thanks, > > Carl Agee > > -- > Carl B. Agee > Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics > Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences > MSC03 2050 > University of New Mexico > Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 > > Tel: (505) 750-7172 > Fax: (505) 277-3577 > Email: a...@unm.edu > http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ > > > On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Greg Hupé > wrote: > > Hi Carl, > > > > It is lunch time for us Floridians so I am just taking a break and > munching > > on some SNACS... > > > > Seriously, What is the current count of NWA 7034 'official' pairings > and how > > many stones constitute each of those? We have all heard of 'paired' > stones > > making the current stone count at about a dozen or so "IF" they are > indeed > > paired to NWA 7034. We have been hearing and seeing images of stones > offered > > from Moroccan dealers as pairings. > > > > If I read it all correctly, the original single 320g stone was the > first > > "NWA 7034" one. Are the three stones pictured in all of the press > releases > > part of one stone that adds up to 320 grams? If not, what are the > weights of > > the additional two stones and/or do they each have their own NWA > numbers? > > Also, I heard there is a 240 gram stone with the owner of the first > 320g > > stone, has this been confirmed yet? > > > > The only 'officially' paired stone that I am aware of is NWA 7533 > weighing > > in at 84 grams. > > > > If all of the stones that are 'guaranteed' paired to NWA 7034 by > Moroccan > > dealers, the combined weight is exceeding 1000 grams which is pret
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
This does not apply to meteorites from dense collection areas. Technically, each newly found stone should get its own number. If they are highly distinct, it is possible to declare an official pairing which will appear in MetBull, and have them treated as one meteorite for the purpose of determining type specimen requirements. Jeff On 1/25/2013 1:45 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote: Carl, Greg, It's my understanding the names of meteorites, once determined they pair to another, should then have the same name, eliminating one of the names. Is this not correct??? Cheers! Jim On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Carl Agee wrote: Hi Greg, The NWA 7034 "main mass" is the original ~320g single stone "Black Beauty" that I started working on back in August of 2011. For a while I thought it was the only one in existence, but over the past few months more stones, all smaller than 320, have been recovered. The two additional stones that I have personally inspected are 107.5g and 65g. So that is 492g, plus the 84g pairing NWA 7533 (which by the way is geochemically identical to NWA 7034 and clearly from the same meteoroid). I have recently seen photos of additional stones, so you are correct that the Black Beauty TKW is probably a bit more than 1kg. When the dust settles, I hope to revise the NWA 7034 write-up in MetBull and list the TKW. Personally, I think it is very confusing to have a bunch of NWA# pairings, when all these stones are so clearly pieces of the same rock, they are unlike any other meteorite both in hand sample and geochemically. By the way, we will be presenting new data at LPSC (not in the Science paper) on noble gases that have been measured in NWA 7034, which are a match for Viking measurements of Martian atmosphere. Also the cosmic ray exposure age is likely ~5 my, the size of the NWA 7034 meteoroid in interplanetary space (before Earth entry) is estimated at diameter ~50 cm, so anyone hoping that there are many 10s of kg of Black Beauty on the ground in the Saraha will be disappointed. Thanks, Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Greg Hupé wrote: Hi Carl, It is lunch time for us Floridians so I am just taking a break and munching on some SNACS... Seriously, What is the current count of NWA 7034 'official' pairings and how many stones constitute each of those? We have all heard of 'paired' stones making the current stone count at about a dozen or so "IF" they are indeed paired to NWA 7034. We have been hearing and seeing images of stones offered from Moroccan dealers as pairings. If I read it all correctly, the original single 320g stone was the first "NWA 7034" one. Are the three stones pictured in all of the press releases part of one stone that adds up to 320 grams? If not, what are the weights of the additional two stones and/or do they each have their own NWA numbers? Also, I heard there is a 240 gram stone with the owner of the first 320g stone, has this been confirmed yet? The only 'officially' paired stone that I am aware of is NWA 7533 weighing in at 84 grams. If all of the stones that are 'guaranteed' paired to NWA 7034 by Moroccan dealers, the combined weight is exceeding 1000 grams which is pretty cool for such a unique meteorite! Congrats again to all involved in bringing this new Martian meteorite to light! Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupé The Hupé Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog & Reference Site) www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site) NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest & eBay) http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault -Original Message- From: Carl Agee Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 11:33 AM To: meteoritelist meteoritelist Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Jeff, Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new name based on locality: I propose "saharaite". So we now have the meteorites from Mars or "SCANS" S: shergottite C: chassignite A: ALH 84001 N: nakhlite S: saharaite Enjoy! Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://me
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
Hello all, place of find named Lghrade Thanks, Abdelfattah. - Mail original - De : Carl Agee À : karmaka Cc : meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Envoyé le : Vendredi 25 janvier 2013 21h36 Objet : Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Hi Martin, Here is an excerpt from our noble gas abstract for NWA 7034, Cartwright et al.: "We obtain T3, T21 and T38 ages of 5.1 Ma, 11.4 Ma and 5.4 Ma respectively. The older T21 age may result from heteorgeniety of target elements like Ca and Mg within the breccia. T3 has little dependency on chemical composition (and T38 also less than T21), and with elevated 4He concenrations, perhaps 3He loss was minimal, and thus this age real. A CRE age > 5 Ma is older than observed previously for shergottite CRE ages, though the 11.4Ma age is similar to Nakhlite / Chassigny CRE ages." So it's not carved in stone quite yet... Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 11:41 AM, karmaka wrote: > Thanks a lot for the information, Carl. > > I can't wait to read more in six days. > > Does the CRE-age of ~5 My mean that NWA 7034 probably represents a new > impact event or could it somehow be related to the shergottites Y793605 and > Y27 with their ejection age of ~4.70 ± 0.50 My? > > Best regards, > > Martin > > Von: Carl Agee > An: Greg Hupé > Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 > Datum: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 19:19:34 +0100 > > Hi Greg, > > The NWA 7034 "main mass" is the original ~320g single stone "Black > Beauty" that I started working on back in August of 2011. For a while > I thought it was the only one in existence, but over the past few > months more stones, all smaller than 320, have been recovered. The two > additional stones that I have personally inspected are 107.5g and 65g. > So that is 492g, plus the 84g pairing NWA 7533 (which by the way is > geochemically identical to NWA 7034 and clearly from the same > meteoroid). I have recently seen photos of additional stones, so you > are correct that the Black Beauty TKW is probably a bit more than 1kg. > When the dust settles, I hope to revise the NWA 7034 write-up in > MetBull and list the TKW. Personally, I think it is very confusing to > have a bunch of NWA# pairings, when all these stones are so clearly > pieces of the same rock, they are unlike any other meteorite both in > hand sample and geochemically. > > By the way, we will be presenting new data at LPSC (not in the Science > paper) on noble gases that have been measured in NWA 7034, which are a > match for Viking measurements of Martian atmosphere. Also the cosmic > ray exposure age is likely ~5 my, the size of the NWA 7034 meteoroid > in interplanetary space (before Earth entry) is estimated at diameter > ~50 cm, so anyone hoping that there are many 10s of kg of Black Beauty > on the ground in the Saraha will be disappointed. > > Thanks, > > Carl Agee > > -- > Carl B. Agee > Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics > Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences > MSC03 2050 > University of New Mexico > Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 > > Tel: (505) 750-7172 > Fax: (505) 277-3577 > Email: a...@unm.edu > http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ > > > On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Greg Hupé > wrote: > > Hi Carl, > > > > It is lunch time for us Floridians so I am just taking a break and > munching > > on some SNACS... > > > > Seriously, What is the current count of NWA 7034 'official' pairings > and how > > many stones constitute each of those? We have all heard of 'paired' > stones > > making the current stone count at about a dozen or so "IF" they are > indeed > > paired to NWA 7034. We have been hearing and seeing images of stones > offered > > from Moroccan dealers as pairings. > > > > If I read it all correctly, the original single 320g stone was the > first > > "NWA 7034" one. Are the three stones pictured in all of the press > releases > > part of one stone that adds up to 320 grams? If not, what are the > weights of > > the additional two stones and/or do they each have their own NWA > numbers? > > Also, I heard there is a 240 gram stone with the owner of the first > 320g > > stone, has this been confirmed yet? > > > > The only 'officially' paired stone that I am aware of is NWA 75
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
--- On Fri, 1/25/13, Anne Black wrote: > Lets make it simple. > Now we can have: > Achondrite Martian Basaltic Breccia. > > Simple as that. Okay! We're settled, then: AMBB it will be! (Sorry, Anne, I couldn't resist;-) But seriously, folks. Consider the following: "martian meteorites" - Martian meteorites are martian rocks that were ejected from Mars by impacts and later fell to the Earth as meteorites. The well-known types are S saharaites (basaltic clasts in a porphyritic groundmass) shergottites (basaltic to lherzolitic igneous rocks), N nakhlites (clinopyroxenites) C chassignites (dunitic cumulate rocks) A ALH 84001(orthopyroxenites) Does anyone else see a problem with this? Bob V. ------ > From: Anne Black > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 > To: a...@unm.edu, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, January 25, 2013, 11:33 AM > > Please, > No, no more acronyms! > The world is being invaded by those meaningless, > un-translatable monstrosities. > Lets make it simple. > We have had for a long time such a thing as: > Achondrite Eucrite Polymict Breccia. > Now we can have: > Achondrite Martian Basaltic Breccia. > > Simple as that. > > Anne M. Black > www.IMPACTIKA.com > impact...@aol.com > > > -Original Message----- > From: Carl Agee > To: meteoritelist meteoritelist > Sent: Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:33 am > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 > > > Jeff, > > Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse > things people > do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making > the new > Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some > drastic > measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty > a new > name based on locality: I propose "saharaite". So we now > have the > meteorites from Mars or "SCANS" > > S: shergottite > C: chassignite > A: ALH 84001 > N: nakhlite > S: saharaite > > Enjoy! > > Carl Agee > > > -- > Carl B. Agee > Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics > Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences > MSC03 2050 > University of New Mexico > Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 > > Tel: (505) 750-7172 > Fax: (505) 277-3577 > Email: a...@unm.edu > http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ > > > --- > Message: 19 > Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500 > From: Jeff Grossman > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Message-ID: <5102a808.5040...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite. > > SNCPB? > > If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, > how about > CANNS? > > Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them > Martian > meteorites? > > Jeff > > On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com > wrote: > > Hi Paul, > > I like the "SNCB". It sounds > like a radio station's call > letters...Stay > > tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from > SNCB. > > Regards, Fred H. > > > >> How shall we organize the new class of Martian? > >> > >> Until now it has been SNC > >> > >> How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? > >> > >> SNCB > >> > >> What say you all? > >> > >> -Paul Gessler > >> __ > >> > >> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > > > > __ > > > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
With world-wide meteoritic heavy-hitters chiming in on this, (and me a meager newbe) I can't help but suggest that this will be re-visited many times over-and over, very soon in fact. Four distinct Martian types might be only the tip of what may emerge in our near future (certainly!) What will this group be named when samples of many more Martian petrologic types eventually be returned? - Original Message - From: "Robert Verish" To: ; "Anne Black" Cc: Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 --- On Fri, 1/25/13, Anne Black wrote: Lets make it simple. Now we can have: Achondrite Martian Basaltic Breccia. Simple as that. Okay! We're settled, then: AMBB it will be! (Sorry, Anne, I couldn't resist;-) But seriously, folks. Consider the following: "martian meteorites" - Martian meteorites are martian rocks that were ejected from Mars by impacts and later fell to the Earth as meteorites. The well-known types are S saharaites (basaltic clasts in a porphyritic groundmass) shergottites (basaltic to lherzolitic igneous rocks), N nakhlites (clinopyroxenites) C chassignites (dunitic cumulate rocks) A ALH 84001(orthopyroxenites) Does anyone else see a problem with this? Bob V. ---------- From: Anne Black Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 To: a...@unm.edu, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, January 25, 2013, 11:33 AM Please, No, no more acronyms! The world is being invaded by those meaningless, un-translatable monstrosities. Lets make it simple. We have had for a long time such a thing as: Achondrite Eucrite Polymict Breccia. Now we can have: Achondrite Martian Basaltic Breccia. Simple as that. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Carl Agee To: meteoritelist meteoritelist Sent: Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:33 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Jeff, Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new name based on locality: I propose "saharaite". So we now have the meteorites from Mars or "SCANS" S: shergottite C: chassignite A: ALH 84001 N: nakhlite S: saharaite Enjoy! Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ --- Message: 19 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500 From: Jeff Grossman Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: <5102a808.5040...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite. SNCPB? If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about CANNS? Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian meteorites? Jeff On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote: > Hi Paul, > I like the "SNCB". It sounds like a radio station's call letters...Stay > tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from SNCB. > Regards, Fred H. > >> How shall we organize the new class of Martian? >> >> Until now it has been SNC >> >> How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? >> >> SNCB >> >> What say you all? >> >> -Paul Gessler >> __ >> >> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/ma
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
Hi Anne, I have to agree with you a bit about acronyms, and I do think that "Martian, Basalt Breccia" is a fine simple descriptive type for NWA 7034 -- hey, that's what I classified it as! But, I think it is worth clarifying that eucrites are HEDs (howardite, eucrite, diogenite) and of course some of the eucrites are breccias. The difference for NWA 7034 is that is not a shergottite breccia, a nakhlite breccia, or chassignite breccia -- not an SNC type martian meteorite. It is an alkali-rich basalt, thus a new type of martian -- which also happens to be a breccia. Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Anne Black wrote: > Please, > No, no more acronyms! > The world is being invaded by those meaningless, un-translatable > monstrosities. > Lets make it simple. > We have had for a long time such a thing as: Achondrite Eucrite Polymict > Breccia. > Now we can have: Achondrite Martian Basaltic Breccia. > > Simple as that. > > Anne M. Black > www.IMPACTIKA.com > impact...@aol.com > > > > -Original Message- > From: Carl Agee > To: meteoritelist meteoritelist > Sent: Fri, Jan 25, 2013 9:33 am > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 > > > Jeff, > > Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people > do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new > Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic > measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new > name based on locality: I propose "saharaite". So we now have the > meteorites from Mars or "SCANS" > > S: shergottite > C: chassignite > A: ALH 84001 > N: nakhlite > S: saharaite > > Enjoy! > > Carl Agee > > > -- > Carl B. Agee > Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics > Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences > MSC03 2050 > University of New Mexico > Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 > > Tel: (505) 750-7172 > Fax: (505) 277-3577 > Email: a...@unm.edu > http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ > > > --- > Message: 19 > Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500 > From: Jeff Grossman > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Message-ID: <5102a808.5040...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite. > > SNCPB? > > If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about CANNS? > > Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian > meteorites? > > Jeff > > On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote: >> >> Hi Paul, >> I like the "SNCB". It sounds like a radio station's call > > letters...Stay >> >> tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from SNCB. >> Regards, Fred H. >> >>> How shall we organize the new class of Martian? >>> >>> Until now it has been SNC >>> >>> How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? >>> >>> SNCB >>> >>> What say you all? >>> >>> -Paul Gessler >>> __ >>> >>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> >> __ >> >> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
Hi Carl,] Saharite is already in use in reference to fulgurites found in the Sahara Desert. Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth & Space Museum - Original Message - From: "Carl Agee" To: "meteoritelist meteoritelist" Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Jeff, Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new name based on locality: I propose "saharaite". So we now have the meteorites from Mars or "SCANS" S: shergottite C: chassignite A: ALH 84001 N: nakhlite S: saharaite Enjoy! Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ --- Message: 19 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500 From: Jeff Grossman Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: <5102a808.5040...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite. SNCPB? If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about CANNS? Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian meteorites? Jeff On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote: Hi Paul, I like the "SNCB". It sounds like a radio station's call letters...Stay tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from SNCB. Regards, Fred H. How shall we organize the new class of Martian? Until now it has been SNC How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? SNCB What say you all? -Paul Gessler __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
Since Saharite is already in use, and Moroccoite or Maracite (if meant to honor NWA) are overly exclusive (ignoring Algeria, Western Sahara, or even Tunisia and Libya), why not Berberite? (Apologies if this has already been suggested.) The term is inclusive, and honors the people responsible for finding the majority of the meteorites. It's easy to pronounce, does not correspond to any rocks or minerals that I'm aware of, and even has the pair of B's to alliteratively tie it to both Black Beauty and Basaltic Breccia. --Rob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Terry Boswell Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:56 AM To: Carl Agee; meteoritelist meteoritelist Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Hi Carl,] Saharite is already in use in reference to fulgurites found in the Sahara Desert. Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth & Space Museum - Original Message - From: "Carl Agee" To: "meteoritelist meteoritelist" Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 > Jeff, > > Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people > do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new > Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic > measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new > name based on locality: I propose "saharaite". So we now have the > meteorites from Mars or "SCANS" > > S: shergottite > C: chassignite > A: ALH 84001 > N: nakhlite > S: saharaite > > Enjoy! > > Carl Agee > > > -- > Carl B. Agee > Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics > Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences > MSC03 2050 > University of New Mexico > Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 > > Tel: (505) 750-7172 > Fax: (505) 277-3577 > Email: a...@unm.edu > http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ > > > ------- > Message: 19 > Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500 > From: Jeff Grossman > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Message-ID: <5102a808.5040...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite. > > SNCPB? > > If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about > CANNS? > > Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian > meteorites? > > Jeff > > On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote: >> Hi Paul, >> I like the "SNCB". It sounds like a radio station's call >> letters...Stay >> tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from SNCB. >> Regards, Fred H. >> >>> How shall we organize the new class of Martian? >>> >>> Until now it has been SNC >>> >>> How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? >>> >>> SNCB >>> >>> What say you all? >>> >>> -Paul Gessler >>> __ >>> >>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> >> __ >> >> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034
Meteorite group names are not invented by NomCom, and certainly not by NASA. The come from usage in the scientific literature. I think we have to remember why names like shergottite and nakhlite came into being. Scientists like to group similar things to help bring order to chaos. When you know next to nothing, you start by putting similar things together that you can study as a group. Once you learn more, relationships may be found among them. In this case, several groups plus a few oddballs seem to share a common origin: Mars. At this point, it doesn't really help anything to continue to generate trivial names for new groupings. The big advance has been made, and we can call them Martian meteorites. That means it is time to start treating all of these meteorites like we do geological specimens on Earth, using standard kinds of lithologic names. I know the old trivial names will die hard, and a term like shergottite will be with us for a long time. But there is no good reason to continue creating new trivial names. ALH 84001 need only be called a Martian pyroxenite (assuming this is the best rock name for it). If 10 more of these are found, they only need to be called Martian pyroxenites; there is no need to define a useless new term like "allanhillsites." The same goes for NWA 7034, which we can call a Martian alkali-rich basalt, or whatever Carl says it is. Note that nomenclature for lunar meteorites was never burdened with trivial names, as there were no famous historical falls or finds. After 30 years, lunar anorthosite meteorites are still just called lunar anorthosites. Scientists don't need to put them in a trival category like "calcalongites" to distinguish them from the basaltic "kalahariites"... this would only obscure what we know about all of these, and nobody will ever do it. So let's forget about inventing terms like saharanite or morrocanite or allanhillsite or whatever. (And while we're at it, let's consider forgetting about shergottite, chassignite and nakhlite.) They're unnecessary and useless to science. Jeff On 1/26/2013 11:22 AM, Aziz Habibilp wrote: Hello Martian guys Nwa 7034 is a new type of Martian It doesn't fit into snc groups So it make sens to name it as a new group a As I said morroconaite is a good one Thus what I suggest in Honor of nwa hunters S schergotite N nakhla C chassiny M morroconaite /Saharanite This is not something we should argue about a new groups need a new names SNCM So who is giving names now NASA or nomcom or who I would realy that this be considered Anne BB was a nickname for black beauty It was called so before dr carl agee analyse it Than it become basaltic breccia what a coincidence All the best Aziz __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034
Greetings to all! to honor of Moroccans: nomads,finder and dealers the best name is MOROCCANITE Cheers, Abdelfattah. - Mail original - De : Aziz Habibilp À : "meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com" Cc : "meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com" Envoyé le : Samedi 26 janvier 2013 17h22 Objet : [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034 Hello Martian guys Nwa 7034 is a new type of Martian It doesn't fit into snc groups So it make sens to name it as a new group a As I said morroconaite is a good one Thus what I suggest in Honor of nwa hunters S schergotite N nakhla C chassiny M morroconaite /Saharanite This is not something we should argue about a new groups need a new names SNCM So who is giving names now NASA or nomcom or who I would realy that this be considered Anne BB was a nickname for black beauty It was called so before dr carl agee analyse it Than it become basaltic breccia what a coincidence All the best Aziz __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com/ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
Maroccoite is also close to the mineral Marokite (CaMn2O4) already named to honor the occurrence (Morocco or "Maroc" in French) Berberite carry many favorable arguments however that name is very close to the mineral Berborite (a BERyllium BORate)... But I agree the NWA countries should be honored. Other suggestions ? Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Rob Matson a écrit : Since Saharite is already in use, and Moroccoite or Maracite (if meant to honor NWA) are overly exclusive (ignoring Algeria, Western Sahara, or even Tunisia and Libya), why not Berberite? (Apologies if this has already been suggested.) The term is inclusive, and honors the people responsible for finding the majority of the meteorites. It's easy to pronounce, does not correspond to any rocks or minerals that I'm aware of, and even has the pair of B's to alliteratively tie it to both Black Beauty and Basaltic Breccia. --Rob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Terry Boswell Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:56 AM To: Carl Agee; meteoritelist meteoritelist Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Hi Carl,] Saharite is already in use in reference to fulgurites found in the Sahara Desert. Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth & Space Museum - Original Message - From: "Carl Agee" To: "meteoritelist meteoritelist" Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Jeff, Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new name based on locality: I propose "saharaite". So we now have the meteorites from Mars or "SCANS" S: shergottite C: chassignite A: ALH 84001 N: nakhlite S: saharaite Enjoy! Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ --- Message: 19 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500 From: Jeff Grossman Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: <5102a808.5040...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite. SNCPB? If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about CANNS? Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian meteorites? Jeff On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote: Hi Paul, I like the "SNCB". It sounds like a radio station's call letters...Stay tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from SNCB. Regards, Fred H. How shall we organize the new class of Martian? Until now it has been SNC How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? SNCB What say you all? -Paul Gessler __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
In any case: Nomadoite ... Best Matthias - Original Message - From: "Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de HauteAlsace ENSCMu," To: Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:47 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Maroccoite is also close to the mineral Marokite (CaMn2O4) already named to honor the occurrence (Morocco or "Maroc" in French) Berberite carry many favorable arguments however that name is very close to the mineral Berborite (a BERyllium BORate)... But I agree the NWA countries should be honored. Other suggestions ? Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Rob Matson a écrit : Since Saharite is already in use, and Moroccoite or Maracite (if meant to honor NWA) are overly exclusive (ignoring Algeria, Western Sahara, or even Tunisia and Libya), why not Berberite? (Apologies if this has already been suggested.) The term is inclusive, and honors the people responsible for finding the majority of the meteorites. It's easy to pronounce, does not correspond to any rocks or minerals that I'm aware of, and even has the pair of B's to alliteratively tie it to both Black Beauty and Basaltic Breccia. --Rob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Terry Boswell Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:56 AM To: Carl Agee; meteoritelist meteoritelist Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Hi Carl,] Saharite is already in use in reference to fulgurites found in the Sahara Desert. Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth & Space Museum - Original Message - From: "Carl Agee" To: "meteoritelist meteoritelist" Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Jeff, Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new name based on locality: I propose "saharaite". So we now have the meteorites from Mars or "SCANS" S: shergottite C: chassignite A: ALH 84001 N: nakhlite S: saharaite Enjoy! Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ --- Message: 19 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500 From: Jeff Grossman Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: <5102a808.5040...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite. SNCPB? If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about CANNS? Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian meteorites? Jeff On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote: Hi Paul, I like the "SNCB". It sounds like a radio station's call letters...Stay tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from SNCB. Regards, Fred H. How shall we organize the new class of Martian? Until now it has been SNC How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? SNCB What say you all? -Paul Gessler __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
nomadoite or a name that does not clarify the name of the country. I do not think it is an honor for Moroccan. there are nomads every where. but the name remain in hand of whom put in MetB. Best, Abdelfattah. - Mail original - De : Matthias Bärmann À : "Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de HauteAlsace ENSCMu," ; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc : Envoyé le : Samedi 26 janvier 2013 23h58 Objet : Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 In any case: Nomadoite ... Best Matthias - Original Message - From: "Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de HauteAlsace ENSCMu," To: Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:47 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Maroccoite is also close to the mineral Marokite (CaMn2O4) already named to honor the occurrence (Morocco or "Maroc" in French) Berberite carry many favorable arguments however that name is very close to the mineral Berborite (a BERyllium BORate)... But I agree the NWA countries should be honored. Other suggestions ? Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Rob Matson a écrit : > Since Saharite is already in use, and Moroccoite or Maracite (if meant to > honor > NWA) > are overly exclusive (ignoring Algeria, Western Sahara, or even Tunisia > and > Libya), > why not Berberite? (Apologies if this has already been suggested.) The > term is > inclusive, and honors the people responsible for finding the majority of > the > meteorites. It's easy to pronounce, does not correspond to any rocks or > minerals that I'm aware of, and even has the pair of B's to > alliteratively tie > it > to both Black Beauty and Basaltic Breccia. --Rob > > -Original Message- > From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Terry > Boswell > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:56 AM > To: Carl Agee; meteoritelist meteoritelist > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 > > Hi Carl,] > > Saharite is already in use in reference to fulgurites found in the Sahara > Desert. > > Phil Whitmer > Joshua Tree Earth & Space Museum > > - Original Message - > From: "Carl Agee" > To: "meteoritelist meteoritelist" > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 11:33 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 > > >> Jeff, >> >> Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people >> do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new >> Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic >> measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new >> name based on locality: I propose "saharaite". So we now have the >> meteorites from Mars or "SCANS" >> >> S: shergottite >> C: chassignite >> A: ALH 84001 >> N: nakhlite >> S: saharaite >> >> Enjoy! >> >> Carl Agee >> >> >> -- >> Carl B. Agee >> Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics >> Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences >> MSC03 2050 >> University of New Mexico >> Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 >> >> Tel: (505) 750-7172 >> Fax: (505) 277-3577 >> Email: a...@unm.edu >> http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ >> >> >> --- >> Message: 19 >> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500 >> From: Jeff Grossman >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 >> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> Message-ID: <5102a808.5040...@gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite. >> >> SNCPB? >> >> If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about >> CANNS? >> >> Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian >> meteorites? >> >> Jeff >> >> On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote: >>> Hi Paul, >>> I like the "SNCB". It sounds like a radio station's call >>> letters...Stay >>> tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from SNCB. >>> Regards, Fred H. >>> >>>> How shall we organize the new class of Martian? >>>> >>>> Until now it has been SNC >>>> >>>> How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? >>>> >>>> SNCB >>>> >>>> What say you all? >>>> >>>> -Paul Gessle
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
Hmmm then maybe Maghrebinite ? :-) -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Gesendet: Samstag, 26. Januar 2013 23:48 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Maroccoite is also close to the mineral Marokite (CaMn2O4) already named to honor the occurrence (Morocco or "Maroc" in French) Berberite carry many favorable arguments however that name is very close to the mineral Berborite (a BERyllium BORate)... But I agree the NWA countries should be honored. Other suggestions ? Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034
Well stated Jeff, one of the few times recently that we agree on issues. There is the "fever" to coin new terminology for this apparent "unique" stone (NWA 7034), which in essence is a breccia, but may not be a "basaltic breccia". Everyone should calm down and wait until some further research information comes out in the forthcoming LPSC Meeting and the longer term research results that will come to light further on downstream. For those folks eager to get some time in on this naming issue, have fun with it, some of you are, patience to the rest of you. Ted On 1/26/13 1:27 PM, Jeff Grossman wrote: Meteorite group names are not invented by NomCom, and certainly not by NASA. The come from usage in the scientific literature. I think we have to remember why names like shergottite and nakhlite came into being. Scientists like to group similar things to help bring order to chaos. When you know next to nothing, you start by putting similar things together that you can study as a group. Once you learn more, relationships may be found among them. In this case, several groups plus a few oddballs seem to share a common origin: Mars. At this point, it doesn't really help anything to continue to generate trivial names for new groupings. The big advance has been made, and we can call them Martian meteorites. That means it is time to start treating all of these meteorites like we do geological specimens on Earth, using standard kinds of lithologic names. I know the old trivial names will die hard, and a term like shergottite will be with us for a long time. But there is no good reason to continue creating new trivial names. ALH 84001 need only be called a Martian pyroxenite (assuming this is the best rock name for it). If 10 more of these are found, they only need to be called Martian pyroxenites; there is no need to define a useless new term like "allanhillsites." The same goes for NWA 7034, which we can call a Martian alkali-rich basalt, or whatever Carl says it is. Note that nomenclature for lunar meteorites was never burdened with trivial names, as there were no famous historical falls or finds. After 30 years, lunar anorthosite meteorites are still just called lunar anorthosites. Scientists don't need to put them in a trival category like "calcalongites" to distinguish them from the basaltic "kalahariites"... this would only obscure what we know about all of these, and nobody will ever do it. So let's forget about inventing terms like saharanite or morrocanite or allanhillsite or whatever. (And while we're at it, let's consider forgetting about shergottite, chassignite and nakhlite.) They're unnecessary and useless to science. Jeff On 1/26/2013 11:22 AM, Aziz Habibilp wrote: Hello Martian guys Nwa 7034 is a new type of Martian It doesn't fit into snc groups So it make sens to name it as a new group a As I said morroconaite is a good one Thus what I suggest in Honor of nwa hunters S schergotite N nakhla C chassiny M morroconaite /Saharanite This is not something we should argue about a new groups need a new names SNCM So who is giving names now NASA or nomcom or who I would realy that this be considered Anne BB was a nickname for black beauty It was called so before dr carl agee analyse it Than it become basaltic breccia what a coincidence All the best Aziz __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
I am absolutely clear about the fact, that "Nomadite" will not have any chance to be accepted, dear Abdelfattah. In any case I wanted to underline that meteorites do not relate primary to national states. Nomadism doesn't know boundaries as well. At least meteors are nomads themselves and should be honored as such. Best regards Matthias - Original Message - From: "abdelfattah gharrad" To: "Matthias Bärmann" ; "Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de HauteAlsace ENSCMu," ; Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 nomadoite or a name that does not clarify the name of the country. I do not think it is an honor for Moroccan. there are nomads every where. but the name remain in hand of whom put in MetB. Best, Abdelfattah. - Mail original - De : Matthias Bärmann À : "Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de HauteAlsace ENSCMu," ; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc : Envoyé le : Samedi 26 janvier 2013 23h58 Objet : Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 In any case: Nomadoite ... Best Matthias - Original Message - From: "Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de HauteAlsace ENSCMu," To: Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:47 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Maroccoite is also close to the mineral Marokite (CaMn2O4) already named to honor the occurrence (Morocco or "Maroc" in French) Berberite carry many favorable arguments however that name is very close to the mineral Berborite (a BERyllium BORate)... But I agree the NWA countries should be honored. Other suggestions ? Zelimir -- Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. LPI-GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Rob Matson a écrit : Since Saharite is already in use, and Moroccoite or Maracite (if meant to honor NWA) are overly exclusive (ignoring Algeria, Western Sahara, or even Tunisia and Libya), why not Berberite? (Apologies if this has already been suggested.) The term is inclusive, and honors the people responsible for finding the majority of the meteorites. It's easy to pronounce, does not correspond to any rocks or minerals that I'm aware of, and even has the pair of B's to alliteratively tie it to both Black Beauty and Basaltic Breccia. --Rob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Terry Boswell Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:56 AM To: Carl Agee; meteoritelist meteoritelist Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Hi Carl,] Saharite is already in use in reference to fulgurites found in the Sahara Desert. Phil Whitmer Joshua Tree Earth & Space Museum - Original Message - From: "Carl Agee" To: "meteoritelist meteoritelist" Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Jeff, Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new name based on locality: I propose "saharaite". So we now have the meteorites from Mars or "SCANS" S: shergottite C: chassignite A: ALH 84001 N: nakhlite S: saharaite Enjoy! Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ --------------- Message: 19 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500 From: Jeff Grossman Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: <5102a808.5040...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite. SNCPB? If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about CANNS? Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian meteorites? Jeff On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote: Hi Paul, I like the "SNCB". It sounds like a radio station's call letters...Stay tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from SNCB. Regards, Fred H. How shall we organize the new class of Martian? Until now it has been SNC How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? SNCB What say you all? -Paul Gessler __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com/ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at
Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034
Hello Ted, Saturday, January 26, 2013, 3:27:34 PM, you wrote: > There is the "fever" to coin new terminology for this apparent "unique" > stone (NWA 7034), If it's not named, how are people supposed to sell dubious samples of it on eBay? :-p~ --- Jodie __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034
Great to hear from you Dr. Ted; and thanks for the levity. - Original Message - From: "Jodie Reynolds" To: "Ted Bunch" Cc: Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034 Hello Ted, Saturday, January 26, 2013, 3:27:34 PM, you wrote: There is the "fever" to coin new terminology for this apparent "unique" stone (NWA 7034), If it's not named, how are people supposed to sell dubious samples of it on eBay? :-p~ --- Jodie __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034
Hello everyone, Instead of using exotic names for this group I would suggest to give to the new group the name of the place where the NWA 7034 was found like the other groups of the martian meteorites. It will be a honor to all the hunters and dealers in the Maghreb (Morocco, Algeria, Mauritania). All the best Mohammed HMANI I.M.C.A #0153 www.sahara-nayzak.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034
Dear Jodie - Selling on eBay is a dubious endeavor in itself. Scientists are not enslaved to the problems of economic gains for the unenlightened eBay "flea marketeers". NWA 7034 has extremely significant scientific potential, possibly equivalent to or exceeds that of what the Mars Rovers have/are reporting. After all, having a Martian specimen in-hand that has "water" and Martian atmospheric signatures together with the potential for other science options that can be investigated via the in-depth array of Earth-based instruments, may far exceed most present expectations of Rover sensing. To quote me, "patience". You can make more money if you have "patience" and allow the scientists to do their stuff. Do not sell short, invest for the long term. Ted On 1/26/13 5:10 PM, Jodie Reynolds wrote: Hello Ted, Saturday, January 26, 2013, 3:27:34 PM, you wrote: There is the "fever" to coin new terminology for this apparent "unique" stone (NWA 7034), If it's not named, how are people supposed to sell dubious samples of it on eBay? :-p~ --- Jodie __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034
Hi Jeff and all you Nomenclature Enthusiasts out there: I think the martian meteorite names do serve a useful purpose, they are a sort of short-hand, so that you don’t have to be an igneous petrologist to know that one type of martian is different from another. So when we say a martian meteorite is a “NWA7034-ite”, or “blackbeauty-ite”, or a “saharite” or whatever name you want to pick, we are implicitly talking about a breccia, that is water-rich, alkali basalt, with higher-than-SNC oxygen isotope values, ~ 2 byo, etc. For example, like it or not, when we say “Allan Hills” the first thing comes that comes to mind is ALH 84001. When you say orthopyroxenite maybe not so much. If it’s such a great idea to do away with martian types, why don’t we go ahead and do away with all the carbonaceous chondrite groups like CI, CM, CV, etc. and just call them all carbonaceous chondrites, that of course have a wide range of compositions, textures, mineralogies etc.? Meteoritics isn’t the only science that has colorful nomenclature. Mineralogists still like to name new minerals after famous mineralogists, instead of just naming them by their chemical composition or crystal structure. Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ -- Message: 7 Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 15:27:06 -0500 From: Jeff Grossman Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: <51043c1a.9040...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Meteorite group names are not invented by NomCom, and certainly not by NASA. The come from usage in the scientific literature. I think we have to remember why names like shergottite and nakhlite came into being. Scientists like to group similar things to help bring order to chaos. When you know next to nothing, you start by putting similar things together that you can study as a group. Once you learn more, relationships may be found among them. In this case, several groups plus a few oddballs seem to share a common origin: Mars. At this point, it doesn't really help anything to continue to generate trivial names for new groupings. The big advance has been made, and we can call them Martian meteorites. That means it is time to start treating all of these meteorites like we do geological specimens on Earth, using standard kinds of lithologic names. I know the old trivial names will die hard, and a term like shergottite will be with us for a long time. But there is no good reason to continue creating new trivial names. ALH 84001 need only be called a Martian pyroxenite (assuming this is the best rock name for it). If 10 more of these are found, they only need to be called Martian pyroxenites; there is no need to define a useless new term like "allanhillsites." The same goes for NWA 7034, which we can call a Martian alkali-rich basalt, or whatever Carl says it is. Note that nomenclature for lunar meteorites was never burdened with trivial names, as there were no famous historical falls or finds. After 30 years, lunar anorthosite meteorites are still just called lunar anorthosites. Scientists don't need to put them in a trival category like "calcalongites" to distinguish them from the basaltic "kalahariites"... this would only obscure what we know about all of these, and nobody will ever do it. So let's forget about inventing terms like saharanite or morrocanite or allanhillsite or whatever. (And while we're at it, let's consider forgetting about shergottite, chassignite and nakhlite.) They're unnecessary and useless to science. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034
There are two reasons why we can't get rid of carbonaceous chondrite group names. First, unlike Martian meteorites, we don't know where C chondrites came from. We can't point to a single asteroid as the source for any of them, let alone all of them. So the group names are still serving their basic purpose of ordering the chaos. Second, the only language we have to describe the rocks known as chondrites is by their group names. They can't be described with standard rock nomenclature. So this is not a fair comparison. I didn't say Martian meteorite names were not useful. I said they were archaic, historical artifacts. Jeff On 1/26/2013 11:38 PM, Carl Agee wrote: Hi Jeff and all you Nomenclature Enthusiasts out there: I think the martian meteorite names do serve a useful purpose, they are a sort of short-hand, so that you don’t have to be an igneous petrologist to know that one type of martian is different from another. So when we say a martian meteorite is a “NWA7034-ite”, or “blackbeauty-ite”, or a “saharite” or whatever name you want to pick, we are implicitly talking about a breccia, that is water-rich, alkali basalt, with higher-than-SNC oxygen isotope values, ~ 2 byo, etc. For example, like it or not, when we say “Allan Hills” the first thing comes that comes to mind is ALH 84001. When you say orthopyroxenite maybe not so much. If it’s such a great idea to do away with martian types, why don’t we go ahead and do away with all the carbonaceous chondrite groups like CI, CM, CV, etc. and just call them all carbonaceous chondrites, that of course have a wide range of compositions, textures, mineralogies etc.? Meteoritics isn’t the only science that has colorful nomenclature. Mineralogists still like to name new minerals after famous mineralogists, instead of just naming them by their chemical composition or crystal structure. Carl Agee __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034
Hi Jeff, Of course the comparison between chondrite groups and martian types is not perfect. The different martian types are not from different parent bodies, but we still don't know where they come from on Mars, and won't for a long time, not until we know the geology of Mars better. So for a large body like a planet, and given our fragmentary knowledge of Mars, different regions are more or less equivalent to different parent bodies. Describing martians with generic lithologic names that were developed for Earth geology is useful, but for example we don't hesitate to use the term mid-ocean ridge basalts (MORB) for Earth's most abundant rock type, which will never be found on Mars. The same is true for Mars because of a different planetary evolution. We are already doing this based on rover data, the term "Gusev basalt" is one example. SNC's plus ALH 84001 and NWA 7034 are, each type, glimpses of diversity of Mars' unique geology. Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ -- Forwarded message -- From: Jeff Grossman To: Cc: Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 00:06:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034 There are two reasons why we can't get rid of carbonaceous chondrite group names. First, unlike Martian meteorites, we don't know where C chondrites came from. We can't point to a single asteroid as the source for any of them, let alone all of them. So the group names are still serving their basic purpose of ordering the chaos. Second, the only language we have to describe the rocks known as chondrites is by their group names. They can't be described with standard rock nomenclature. So this is not a fair comparison. I didn't say Martian meteorite names were not useful. I said they were archaic, historical artifacts. Jeff On 1/26/2013 11:38 PM, Carl Agee wrote: Hi Jeff and all you Nomenclature Enthusiasts out there: I think the martian meteorite names do serve a useful purpose, they are a sort of short-hand, so that you don’t have to be an igneous petrologist to know that one type of martian is different from another. So when we say a martian meteorite is a “NWA7034-ite”, or “blackbeauty-ite”, or a “saharite” or whatever name you want to pick, we are implicitly talking about a breccia, that is water-rich, alkali basalt, with higher-than-SNC oxygen isotope values, ~ 2 byo, etc. For example, like it or not, when we say “Allan Hills” the first thing comes that comes to mind is ALH 84001. When you say orthopyroxenite maybe not so much. If it’s such a great idea to do away with martian types, why don’t we go ahead and do away with all the carbonaceous chondrite groups like CI, CM, CV, etc. and just call them all carbonaceous chondrites, that of course have a wide range of compositions, textures, mineralogies etc.? Meteoritics isn’t the only science that has colorful nomenclature. Mineralogists still like to name new minerals after famous mineralogists, instead of just naming them by their chemical composition or crystal structure. Carl Agee __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034
The bottom line in all of this is that meteorite group names will last only as long as they're useful. The literature of the past is littered with group names such as grahamites and others I've forgotten because they fell out of use. Similarly, the term SNC is not used much these days although the individual group names survive. If scientisits no longer find it useful to use the term shergottite, then it will gradually fall out of use. If folks invent new names and no one uses them, then it doesn't really matter. An interesting analogy is that there are some unpopular models for chondrule formation, for example, (say gamma-ray bursts) that no one uses and thus don't pollute the literature. Alan Alan Rubin Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics University of California 3845 Slichter Hall 603 Charles Young Dr. E Los Angeles, CA 90095-1567 phone: 310-825-3202 e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html - Original Message - From: "Carl Agee" To: "meteoritelist meteoritelist" Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:20 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034 Hi Jeff, Of course the comparison between chondrite groups and martian types is not perfect. The different martian types are not from different parent bodies, but we still don't know where they come from on Mars, and won't for a long time, not until we know the geology of Mars better. So for a large body like a planet, and given our fragmentary knowledge of Mars, different regions are more or less equivalent to different parent bodies. Describing martians with generic lithologic names that were developed for Earth geology is useful, but for example we don't hesitate to use the term mid-ocean ridge basalts (MORB) for Earth's most abundant rock type, which will never be found on Mars. The same is true for Mars because of a different planetary evolution. We are already doing this based on rover data, the term "Gusev basalt" is one example. SNC's plus ALH 84001 and NWA 7034 are, each type, glimpses of diversity of Mars' unique geology. Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ -- Forwarded message -- From: Jeff Grossman To: Cc: Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 00:06:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034 There are two reasons why we can't get rid of carbonaceous chondrite group names. First, unlike Martian meteorites, we don't know where C chondrites came from. We can't point to a single asteroid as the source for any of them, let alone all of them. So the group names are still serving their basic purpose of ordering the chaos. Second, the only language we have to describe the rocks known as chondrites is by their group names. They can't be described with standard rock nomenclature. So this is not a fair comparison. I didn't say Martian meteorite names were not useful. I said they were archaic, historical artifacts. Jeff On 1/26/2013 11:38 PM, Carl Agee wrote: Hi Jeff and all you Nomenclature Enthusiasts out there: I think the martian meteorite names do serve a useful purpose, they are a sort of short-hand, so that you don’t have to be an igneous petrologist to know that one type of martian is different from another. So when we say a martian meteorite is a “NWA7034-ite”, or “blackbeauty-ite”, or a “saharite” or whatever name you want to pick, we are implicitly talking about a breccia, that is water-rich, alkali basalt, with higher-than-SNC oxygen isotope values, ~ 2 byo, etc. For example, like it or not, when we say “Allan Hills” the first thing comes that comes to mind is ALH 84001. When you say orthopyroxenite maybe not so much. If it’s such a great idea to do away with martian types, why don’t we go ahead and do away with all the carbonaceous chondrite groups like CI, CM, CV, etc. and just call them all carbonaceous chondrites, that of course have a wide range of compositions, textures, mineralogies etc.? Meteoritics isn’t the only science that has colorful nomenclature. Mineralogists still like to name new minerals after famous mineralogists, instead of just naming them by their chemical composition or crystal structure. Carl Agee __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034
Alan, Very good point, but now because of the appearance of NWA 7034 the waning usefulness of distinct martian types is actually reversed and becomes more relevant. In the past few years we have seen so many new shergottite finds, but they are all more or less the same rocks as in the collections, so nothing really new, and we all thought "SNC=martian meterorite". NWA 7034 is quite different, it is not just another SNC, it is showing us that the SNCs are probably a small biased sampling of Mars -- but we already knew that from rover and orbiter data. So now it is useful to say "SNC+NWA7034=martian meteorite", and make the statement that no, this is not just another shergottite, only brecciated. Carl On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 9:38 AM, Alan Rubin wrote: > The bottom line in all of this is that meteorite group names will last only > as long as they're useful. The literature of the past is littered with > group names such as grahamites and others I've forgotten because they fell > out of use. Similarly, the term SNC is not used much these days although > the individual group names survive. If scientisits no longer find it useful > to use the term shergottite, then it will gradually fall out of use. If > folks invent new names and no one uses them, then it doesn't really matter. > An interesting analogy is that there are some unpopular models for chondrule > formation, for example, (say gamma-ray bursts) that no one uses and thus > don't pollute the literature. > Alan > > > Alan Rubin > Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics > University of California > 3845 Slichter Hall > 603 Charles Young Dr. E > Los Angeles, CA 90095-1567 > phone: 310-825-3202 > e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu > website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html > > > - Original Message ----- From: "Carl Agee" > To: "meteoritelist meteoritelist" > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:20 AM > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034 > > > Hi Jeff, > > Of course the comparison between chondrite groups and martian types is > not perfect. The different martian types are not from different parent > bodies, but we still don't know where they come from on Mars, and > won't for a long time, not until we know the geology of Mars better. > So for a large body like a planet, and given our fragmentary knowledge > of Mars, different regions are more or less equivalent to different > parent bodies. Describing martians with generic lithologic names that > were developed for Earth geology is useful, but for example we don't > hesitate to use the term mid-ocean ridge basalts (MORB) for Earth's > most abundant rock type, which will never be found on Mars. The same > is true for Mars because of a different planetary evolution. We are > already doing this based on rover data, the term "Gusev basalt" is one > example. SNC's plus ALH 84001 and NWA 7034 are, each type, glimpses of > diversity of Mars' unique geology. > > Carl Agee > > -- > Carl B. Agee > Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics > Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences > MSC03 2050 > University of New Mexico > Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 > > Tel: (505) 750-7172 > Fax: (505) 277-3577 > Email: a...@unm.edu > http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ > > -- Forwarded message -- > From: Jeff Grossman > To: > Cc: > Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 00:06:22 -0500 > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034 > There are two reasons why we can't get rid of carbonaceous chondrite > group names. First, unlike Martian meteorites, we don't know where C > chondrites came from. We can't point to a single asteroid as the > source for any of them, let alone all of them. So the group names are > still serving their basic purpose of ordering the chaos. Second, the > only language we have to describe the rocks known as chondrites is by > their group names. They can't be described with standard rock > nomenclature. So this is not a fair comparison. > > I didn't say Martian meteorite names were not useful. I said they > were archaic, historical artifacts. > > Jeff > > On 1/26/2013 11:38 PM, Carl Agee wrote: > >Hi Jeff and all you Nomenclature Enthusiasts out there: > >I think the martian meteorite names do serve a useful purpose, they >are a sort of short-hand, so that you don’t have to be an igneous >petrologist to know that one type of martian is different from >another. So when we say a martian meteorite is a “NWA7034-ite”, or >“blackbeauty-ite”, or a “saharite” or whatever name you want to pick, >we are implicitly talking about a breccia, that is water-rich
Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034
Hi all! It seems that over time, with our knowledge increasing, naming and systematics would follow the knowledge. If something is different, it's different. Has anyone really ever agreed on systematics? Kind regards Jim Jim Wooddell - Mobile Carl Agee wrote: >Alan, > >Very good point, but now because of the appearance of NWA 7034 the >waning usefulness of distinct martian types is actually reversed and >becomes more relevant. In the past few years we have seen so many new >shergottite finds, but they are all more or less the same rocks as in >the collections, so nothing really new, and we all thought >"SNC=martian meterorite". NWA 7034 is quite different, it is not just >another SNC, it is showing us that the SNCs are probably a small >biased sampling of Mars -- but we already knew that from rover and >orbiter data. So now it is useful to say "SNC+NWA7034=martian >meteorite", and make the statement that no, this is not just another >shergottite, only brecciated. > >Carl > >On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 9:38 AM, Alan Rubin wrote: >> The bottom line in all of this is that meteorite group names will last only >> as long as they're useful. The literature of the past is littered with >> group names such as grahamites and others I've forgotten because they fell >> out of use. Similarly, the term SNC is not used much these days although >> the individual group names survive. If scientisits no longer find it useful >> to use the term shergottite, then it will gradually fall out of use. If >> folks invent new names and no one uses them, then it doesn't really matter. >> An interesting analogy is that there are some unpopular models for chondrule >> formation, for example, (say gamma-ray bursts) that no one uses and thus >> don't pollute the literature. >> Alan >> >> >> Alan Rubin >> Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics >> University of California >> 3845 Slichter Hall >> 603 Charles Young Dr. E >> Los Angeles, CA 90095-1567 >> phone: 310-825-3202 >> e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu >> website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html >> >> >> - Original Message - From: "Carl Agee" >> To: "meteoritelist meteoritelist" >> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:20 AM >> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034 >> >> >> Hi Jeff, >> >> Of course the comparison between chondrite groups and martian types is >> not perfect. The different martian types are not from different parent >> bodies, but we still don't know where they come from on Mars, and >> won't for a long time, not until we know the geology of Mars better. >> So for a large body like a planet, and given our fragmentary knowledge >> of Mars, different regions are more or less equivalent to different >> parent bodies. Describing martians with generic lithologic names that >> were developed for Earth geology is useful, but for example we don't >> hesitate to use the term mid-ocean ridge basalts (MORB) for Earth's >> most abundant rock type, which will never be found on Mars. The same >> is true for Mars because of a different planetary evolution. We are >> already doing this based on rover data, the term "Gusev basalt" is one >> example. SNC's plus ALH 84001 and NWA 7034 are, each type, glimpses of >> diversity of Mars' unique geology. >> >> Carl Agee >> >> -- >> Carl B. Agee >> Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics >> Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences >> MSC03 2050 >> University of New Mexico >> Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 >> >> Tel: (505) 750-7172 >> Fax: (505) 277-3577 >> Email: a...@unm.edu >> http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ >> >> -- Forwarded message -- >> From: Jeff Grossman >> To: >> Cc: >> Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 00:06:22 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034 >> There are two reasons why we can't get rid of carbonaceous chondrite >> group names. First, unlike Martian meteorites, we don't know where C >> chondrites came from. We can't point to a single asteroid as the >> source for any of them, let alone all of them. So the group names are >> still serving their basic purpose of ordering the chaos. Second, the >> only language we have to describe the rocks known as chondrites is by >> their group names. They can't be described with standard rock >> nomenclature. So this is not a fair comparison. >> >> I didn't say Martian meteorite
Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034
Alan, Carl, Jeff, Ted, Bernd, Martin, Adam, Greg, MikeG, List, All due respect to all view points here but, there are certain terms that were a good idea that never really caught on such as "RALEWITE". I think this was first brought to our attention by Martin back in May of 2009 if you look in the list archives. This best describes a phenomena that so far has only been seen in one "fall" that I know of but as a hunter is an extremely important discovery made by and named in honor of Stefan Ralew. Because after all hunters are the first in the discovery process. This observation was made in recognition of a very unusual " rubble" mixture of fusion crustal material and tiny rocks found on the exterior which penetrated well into the interior of the Tamedaght meteorite fall. This mixture of bits and pieces of the main mass itself mixed in with melted fusion crust material is a sight to see because it is a very thick layer. Too thick to be a normal fusion crust. If we did not know it was from an observed fall, most people would not even have acknowledged that it was part of a real meteorite. I have been actively around meteorites since 1989 and attend the Tucson show every year to look at rocks and I have only seen this TAMEDAGHT PHENOMENA once. This "fusion crust type" is so rare it deserves it's own name in order that it does not get overlooked by future hunters as a "meteorwrong". (sorry I don't have any of my own pictures to post) Carl, Another potentially good reason for NWA 7034 having it's own name is because it may open a flood gate that has previously been locked shut. I mean had I shown a water rich breccia "Meteorite prospect" to an accredited meteoriticist before now they would have sent me on my way and not given it a second look. This fact alone deserves a huge high five to Dr. Carl Agee. Thank you so much for not sending this amazing discovery to the pigeon hole of meteorwrongs. Another new Mars rock that deserves acknowledgement (once one is found) is the rover's recent discovery of a rock with Earth -like chemistry, a type which lacks Mg and Fe and is rich in feldspar-like minerals. see link below; http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/12/us-space-mars-idUSBRE89B02Q20121012 Kind Regards, Carl meteoritemax -- Cheers Alan Rubin wrote: > The bottom line in all of this is that meteorite group names will last only > as long as they're useful. The literature of the past is littered with > group names such as grahamites and others I've forgotten because they fell > out of use. Similarly, the term SNC is not used much these days although > the individual group names survive. If scientisits no longer find it useful > to use the term shergottite, then it will gradually fall out of use. If > folks invent new names and no one uses them, then it doesn't really matter. > An interesting analogy is that there are some unpopular models for chondrule > formation, for example, (say gamma-ray bursts) that no one uses and thus > don't pollute the literature. > Alan > > > Alan Rubin > Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics > University of California > 3845 Slichter Hall > 603 Charles Young Dr. E > Los Angeles, CA 90095-1567 > phone: 310-825-3202 > e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu > website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html > > > - Original Message - > From: "Carl Agee" > To: "meteoritelist meteoritelist" > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:20 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034 > > > Hi Jeff, > > Of course the comparison between chondrite groups and martian types is > not perfect. The different martian types are not from different parent > bodies, but we still don't know where they come from on Mars, and > won't for a long time, not until we know the geology of Mars better. > So for a large body like a planet, and given our fragmentary knowledge > of Mars, different regions are more or less equivalent to different > parent bodies. Describing martians with generic lithologic names that > were developed for Earth geology is useful, but for example we don't > hesitate to use the term mid-ocean ridge basalts (MORB) for Earth's > most abundant rock type, which will never be found on Mars. The same > is true for Mars because of a different planetary evolution. We are > already doing this based on rover data, the term "Gusev basalt" is one > example. SNC's plus ALH 84001 and NWA 7034 are, each type, glimpses of > diversity of Mars' unique geology. > > Carl Agee > > -- > Carl B. Agee > Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics > Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences > MSC03 2050 > University of Ne
Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034
Alan, Agee and Listers I have been reading what everyone has been saying and find it interesting the lexicon that has been used in the past and today in the meteoritic world. In the 1800's the use of thunder-stone, lightning stones, auralite was a house hold name for stones falling from the sky. I think it wasnt till the mid 1800's that meteorite was the word that would denote all stones that fell from the heavens, and to this day, meteorite has made it through time, unlike the other names because I think technology has allowed us to dismiss how meteorites were formed. I do agree Alan, names and terms will be used till we find no use for them. Just think in 100 years from now when we have the means to mine from Mars and or live on Mars, will meteorites be the thing of the past from that planet? But I also do feel we need names, categories to distinguish one type of meteorite from another and feel that will help categorize them as such allow allow scientist and collectors a like to differentiate meteorites and where they come from. Lastly, the naming of NWA 7034.. What about Nilelite? The Nile river and NWA 7034 ( highest amount of water). Also we could just keep it at NWA 7034 Martian (basaltic breccia) which would be in accordance with ALH 84001 Martian (OPX) An orthopyroxene-rich martian meteorite. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 ebay store http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633nyc/m.html http://meteoritefalls.com/ From: Alan Rubin To: Carl Agee ; meteoritelist meteoritelist Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 11:38 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034 The bottom line in all of this is that meteorite group names will last only as long as they're useful. The literature of the past is littered with group names such as grahamites and others I've forgotten because they fell out of use. Similarly, the term SNC is not used much these days although the individual group names survive. If scientisits no longer find it useful to use the term shergottite, then it will gradually fall out of use. If folks invent new names and no one uses them, then it doesn't really matter. An interesting analogy is that there are some unpopular models for chondrule formation, for example, (say gamma-ray bursts) that no one uses and thus don't pollute the literature. Alan Alan Rubin Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics University of California 3845 Slichter Hall 603 Charles Young Dr. E Los Angeles, CA 90095-1567 phone: 310-825-3202 e-mail: aeru...@ucla.edu website: http://cosmochemists.igpp.ucla.edu/Rubin.html - Original Message - From: "Carl Agee" To: "meteoritelist meteoritelist" Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:20 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034 Hi Jeff, Of course the comparison between chondrite groups and martian types is not perfect. The different martian types are not from different parent bodies, but we still don't know where they come from on Mars, and won't for a long time, not until we know the geology of Mars better. So for a large body like a planet, and given our fragmentary knowledge of Mars, different regions are more or less equivalent to different parent bodies. Describing martians with generic lithologic names that were developed for Earth geology is useful, but for example we don't hesitate to use the term mid-ocean ridge basalts (MORB) for Earth's most abundant rock type, which will never be found on Mars. The same is true for Mars because of a different planetary evolution. We are already doing this based on rover data, the term "Gusev basalt" is one example. SNC's plus ALH 84001 and NWA 7034 are, each type, glimpses of diversity of Mars' unique geology. Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ -- Forwarded message ------ From: Jeff Grossman To: Cc: Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 00:06:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nwa 7034 There are two reasons why we can't get rid of carbonaceous chondrite group names. First, unlike Martian meteorites, we don't know where C chondrites came from. We can't point to a single asteroid as the source for any of them, let alone all of them. So the group names are still serving their basic purpose of ordering the chaos. Second, the only language we have to describe the rocks known as chondrites is by their group names. They can't be described with standard rock nomenclature. So this is not a fair comparison. I didn't say Martian meteorite names were not useful. I said they were archaic, historical artifacts. Jeff On 1/26/2013 11:38 PM, Carl Agee wrote: Hi Jeff and all you Nomenclature Enthusiasts out ther
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 / saharite
Hi, Saharite is a term I coined many years ago for the crenelated fulgurites from the Sahara that I believed merited a special moniker—and it's a term which never stuck. The references are few and far between and most citations are either my auction description copy or cribbed from the same. While not virgin, the use of the term is unproblematic. Best / d On Jan 26, 2013, at 3:16 PM, Rob Matson wrote: > Since Saharite is already in use, and Moroccoite or Maracite (if meant to > honor > NWA) > are overly exclusive (ignoring Algeria, Western Sahara, or even Tunisia and > Libya), > why not Berberite? (Apologies if this has already been suggested.) The term > is > inclusive, and honors the people responsible for finding the majority of the > meteorites. It's easy to pronounce, does not correspond to any rocks or > minerals that I'm aware of, and even has the pair of B's to alliteratively tie > it > to both Black Beauty and Basaltic Breccia. --Rob > > -Original Message- > From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Terry > Boswell > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:56 AM > To: Carl Agee; meteoritelist meteoritelist > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 > > Hi Carl,] > > Saharite is already in use in reference to fulgurites found in the Sahara > Desert. > > Phil Whitmer > Joshua Tree Earth & Space Museum > > - Original Message - > From: "Carl Agee" > To: "meteoritelist meteoritelist" > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 11:33 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 > > >> Jeff, >> >> Now that you are at NASA you can appreciate the perverse things people >> do with words just to come up with a cool acronym. Making the new >> Martian meteorite acronym even half way cool requires some drastic >> measures, like giving NWA 7034 Basaltic Breccia Black Beauty a new >> name based on locality: I propose "saharaite". So we now have the >> meteorites from Mars or "SCANS" >> >> S: shergottite >> C: chassignite >> A: ALH 84001 >> N: nakhlite >> S: saharaite >> >> Enjoy! >> >> Carl Agee >> >> >> -- >> Carl B. Agee >> Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics >> Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences >> MSC03 2050 >> University of New Mexico >> Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 >> >> Tel: (505) 750-7172 >> Fax: (505) 277-3577 >> Email: a...@unm.edu >> http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ >> >> >> --- >> Message: 19 >> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:43:04 -0500 >> From: Jeff Grossman >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 >> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> Message-ID: <5102a808.5040...@gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Don't forget ALH 84001, the pyroxenite. >> >> SNCPB? >> >> If we use the N from NWA instead of B, and the A from ALH, how about >> CANNS? >> >> Or maybe we should just do the sensible thing and call them Martian >> meteorites? >> >> Jeff >> >> On 1/24/2013 4:42 PM, h...@meteorhall.com wrote: >>> Hi Paul, >>>I like the "SNCB". It sounds like a radio station's call >>> letters...Stay >>> tuned for all of your Martian meteorite news from SNCB. >>> Regards, Fred H. >>> >>>> How shall we organize the new class of Martian? >>>> >>>> Until now it has been SNC >>>> >>>> How about B or B squared for BASALTIC BRECCIA ? >>>> >>>> SNCB >>>> >>>> What say you all? >>>> >>>> -Paul Gessler >>>> __ >>>> >>>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >>> >>> __ >>> >>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> __ >> >> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Martian (Basaltic Breccia)
An interesting video on NWA 7034 was just released by UNM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfFU3EGcWJY Thank you! Martin Von: Carl Agee An: meteoritelist meteoritelist Betreff: [meteorite-list] NWA 7034 Martian (Basaltic Breccia) Datum: Sat, 05 Jan 2013 19:00:20 +0100 My revised classification of NWA 7034 was approved yesterday for this new type of martian meteorite: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=NWA+7034&sfor=names&ants=&falls=&valids=&stype=contains&lrec=50&map=ge&browse=&country=All&srt=name&categ=All&mblist=All&rect=&phot=&snew=0&pnt=Normal%20table&code=54831 Also it will be featured on Wikipedia's front page soon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Africa_7034 -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Postfach fast voll? Jetzt kostenlos E-Mail Adresse @t-online.de sichern und endlich Platz für tausende Mails haben. http://www.t-online.de/email-kostenlos __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
