Re: [uf-discuss] Getting started with microformats

[Bob Jonkman]

Chris Messina wrote:

So I had the question posed to me yet again:

"Ok, we know we should do microformats... but we're not sure where to
start. Can you help us out?"

[...]

We could offer either a case study ("XCorp started by locating all
references to people and locations on their website. They then marked
up their pages using hcard. Specifically, this is the code they
changed...").

[...]

I came across microformats almost exactly a year ago, and idly proposed 
the hGEDCOM format for genealogy.  I saw that a separate Wiki page had 
been created (thanx, Tantek!), but didn't really get excited about the 
whole thing until I heard the podcast of Tantek's panel discussion at 
SXSW (audio file at 
http://player.sxsw.com/2006/podcasts/SXSW06.INT.20060313.Microformats.mp3)  
This would be a great introduction to anyone trying to understand why 
microformats should be done.


I'm currently adding microformats to a bunch of pages on the Intranet at 
work, so I may be able to provide details of the pitfalls that a newbie 
encounters while microformatting:  paying attention to subordinate 
classes (eg. Bob Jonkman 
doesn't work); make sure the Web page validates before microformatting, 
make sure the Web page still validates after microformatting; it helps 
to understand the base format (vCard, Atom) before trying to do hcard or 
hatom.  I can expound on this in the Wiki -- where do I start?


BTW, is there a microformat validation tool?  I'm currently relying on 
the Tails Export extension by Rob de Bruin in Firefox -- if it displays 
there it must be OK...


--Bob.
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Re: [uf-discuss] vCard import to outlook

[Ciaran McNulty]

On 8/9/06, Eran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I've got lists (well tables) of hCard data in my new website (example:
> http://www.whereareyoucamping.com/people/list ). X2V converts these pages to
> one .vcf file that contains several files. When trying to import that file
> to Outlook (either 2k3 or 2k7 beta) only the first one is ever imported. Has
> anyone had any experience with this? Is there a way to import multiple vcard
> into outlook from one file?


Outlook appears to only support one vCard per VCF.  There are some
third-party product that attempt to fix this [1]

It is possible to address individual page elements as you pass them
through VCF using # in the URLs you provide, if you want to pick out
individual cards.

-Ciaran

 [1] - http://www.sperrysoftware.com/Outlook/Vcard-Converter.asp
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Re: [uf-discuss] Automated microformat parsing using XPath

[brian suda]

There are several things to look out for... i'll answer a few, then
suggest we move this to the mf-dev list if there are more specific
questions.

1) the portion of the XPATH: contains(@class, 'description')  will fail
if there is 'descriptions' (plural) because this is only looking for the
string CONTAINED in the @class, you will need to expand that to
something like: contains(concat(' ', normalize-space(@class), ' '),'
description ') This pads both sides with spaces and then searches for
the term also padded with spaces.

2) Depending on both the microformat property (URL, UID, etc) you will
look in different places,
if node() = 'a' and @class='url' then
  // look on the @href
end if

you will also need to consider data that is found on the ABBR attribute.
If there is a microformat property and it is on an ABBR element, then
values is extracted from the @title.

We have a repository of XSLT code, which has many working XPATHs already
written, feel free to browse them at http://hg.microformats.org/

If you are already not part of the mf-dev list, an administrator will
have to add you.

-brian

Matt Augustine wrote:
> I have written simple parsers for hCard and hCal in javascript that use
> XPath to parse the microformat properties from an arbitrary xhtml
> document.  In general, for each known property I have code like this:
>
> node = document.evaluate("//*[contains(@class,
> 'vevent')]//*[contains(@class, 'description')]", hCalXmlNode, null, 0
> /*XPathResult.ANY_TYPE*/, null).iterateNext();
>
> if (node) {self.Description = node.textContent;}
>
> This works great in most cases, but I'm having trouble with the case
> where the exact location of the data (which attribute, inner element
> etc.) is unknown.  For example, UIDs might be represented as:
>
>  href="http://beta.plazes.com/plaze/cd21e1717f61ba9cf9df9006038da172/";>fi
> ahless
>
> How would I parse the value without special casing to look in the href
> attribute if the containing element is an ?  An XPath expression like
> the one above would yield "fiahless" instead of
> ="http://beta.plazes.com/plaze/cd21e1717f61ba9cf9df9006038da172/";.
>
>
> Matt Augustine
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>
>   

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[uf-discuss] Automated microformat parsing using XPath

[Matt Augustine]

I have written simple parsers for hCard and hCal in javascript that use
XPath to parse the microformat properties from an arbitrary xhtml
document.  In general, for each known property I have code like this:

node = document.evaluate("//*[contains(@class,
'vevent')]//*[contains(@class, 'description')]", hCalXmlNode, null, 0
/*XPathResult.ANY_TYPE*/, null).iterateNext();

if (node) {self.Description = node.textContent;}

This works great in most cases, but I'm having trouble with the case
where the exact location of the data (which attribute, inner element
etc.) is unknown.  For example, UIDs might be represented as:

http://beta.plazes.com/plaze/cd21e1717f61ba9cf9df9006038da172/";>fi
ahless

How would I parse the value without special casing to look in the href
attribute if the containing element is an ?  An XPath expression like
the one above would yield "fiahless" instead of
="http://beta.plazes.com/plaze/cd21e1717f61ba9cf9df9006038da172/";.


Matt Augustine
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[uf-discuss] vCard import to outlook

[Eran]

Hey All.

I've got lists (well tables) of hCard data in my new website (example:
http://www.whereareyoucamping.com/people/list ). X2V converts these pages to
one .vcf file that contains several files. When trying to import that file
to Outlook (either 2k3 or 2k7 beta) only the first one is ever imported. Has
anyone had any experience with this? Is there a way to import multiple vcard
into outlook from one file?

Thanks,
Eran.

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Re: [uf-discuss] Getting started with microformats

[Ryan King]

On Aug 9, 2006, at 10:41 AM, Chris Messina wrote:


I would like to propose (and yes, this means work at some point, but
for now I'm raising the issue) that we create a well-written and
straight forward page that does answer the question: "I'm ready to get
started, so where do I begin?"


I don't see how anyone can disagree with that. Less talk , more rock.

-ryan
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Re: [uf-discuss] dtstamp in hCal

[brian suda]

The other option is to double-up on the dtstart property.

Because dtstart is required you can easily do something like:

September 1, 1997

this works well when the dtstamp and the start are the same thing,
although it is not always true.

-brian

Matt Augustine wrote:
> I need to make sure that the hCal microformats I publish can be easily 
> converted into iCal format that is readable by Outlook.  Since Outlook 
> requires the DTSTAMP property, I have to include dtstamp in the hCal.  Some 
> of the examples at http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-brainstorming 
> represent dtstamp like this:
>
> 
>
> Doesn't this violate the principle of visibility?  Would it be better to use 
> something like this:
>
> Last changed on September 
> 1, 1997.
>
>
> Matt Augustine
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>   

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[uf-discuss] dtstamp in hCal

[Matt Augustine]

I need to make sure that the hCal microformats I publish can be easily 
converted into iCal format that is readable by Outlook.  Since Outlook requires 
the DTSTAMP property, I have to include dtstamp in the hCal.  Some of the 
examples at http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-brainstorming represent 
dtstamp like this:



Doesn't this violate the principle of visibility?  Would it be better to use 
something like this:

Last changed on September 1, 
1997.


Matt Augustine
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[uf-discuss] Apple open sources their iCal Server

[Kevin Marks]

This looks interesting - I was chatting to some of Apple's server team  
last night at the webkit meetup.


Begin forwarded message:


From: Peter Herndon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: August 9, 2006 12:35:11 PM PDT
To: twisted-web@twistedmatrix.com
Subject: [Twisted-web] Apple using Twisted in OS 10.5 Leopard Server
Reply-To: Twisted Web World 

Hi all,

Apple has open sourced their iCal Server, and it is written in Python  
using Twisted and web2.


http://trac.macosforge.org/projects/collaboration/browser/  has the  
overall stuff in it, and the server itself is at
http://trac.macosforge.org/projects/collaboration/browser/ 
CalendarServer/trunk/


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Re: [uf-discuss] Getting started with microformats

[Tantek Çelik]

On 8/9/06 10:41 AM, "Chris Messina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> So I had the question posed to me yet again:
> 
> "Ok, we know we should do microformats... but we're not sure where to
> start. Can you help us out?"
> 
> Seeing as how I'm probably not alone here, I was going to create a
> "Getting started with microformats" page when I discovered a bunch of
> confused pages that seem to be half-hearted attempts to solve this
> problem:
> 
> * http://microformats.org/wiki/introduction
> * http://microformats.org/wiki/what-can-you-do-with-microformats
> * http://microformats.org/wiki/implement
> * http://microformats.org/wiki/getting-started
> 
> They all seem to start with definitions and then run out of steam.

Actually, what you are seeing is the natural state of wiki pages.  They get
incrementally improved over time, and not necessarily predictably so.


> I would like to propose (and yes, this means work at some point, but
> for now I'm raising the issue) that we create a well-written and
> straight forward page that does answer the question: "I'm ready to get
> started, so where do I begin?"

Alright Chris, I'm going to call you on this.

Stop proposing and start writing.  Seriously.

I'll be perfectly frank, there have been lots of proposals and calls for
action by folks but when those same folks are asked to step up and help out
with even incremental work they typically fail to find the time to do so.
More action (writing), less talk (proposals).

The next actions here:

1. Feel free to add and improve to the pages mentioned above.

2. If you don't like the pages above, how they are structured etc., and have
a better proposal, then start a section for yourself on the "to-do" page and
start describing what you want to create instead.  The reason for describing
it first is to make it more open, and to put it somewhere that other people
looking to improve things will also look to help out.

 http://microformats.org/wiki/to-do

3. Follow-up on those items you listed on the "to-do" page.

Thanks,

Tantek

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Re: [uf-discuss] Getting started with microformats

[Erica Douglass]

Hi Chris,

I totally agree. Tantek and I were talking about this at Wordcamp --
how people don't really "get" microformats until they see them in
action. I marked up a sidebar calendar on my blog with the event
microformats and want to use that as one case study. I am sure there
are many others.

The problem I have, as Iam sure most of you do too, is time. I have
been asked by several people to submit my modified Wordpress plugin as
a real plugin, but I'm a weirdo perfectionist and want to get a bunch
more things working (lke URLs for each event) before I do that. The
problem is that I need to find a few hours in a day to specifically
devote to doing that, and at this point, I'm not sure where those will
come from.

I would say the first thing to do would be to collect other case
studies and get notes from those who are using them. One case study
for each microformat group would probably do quite well. Then, once
those case studies have been collected, someone needs to "rubber-band"
them together and put them up in a cohesive manner on the microformats
website. This is also something I could do if I had more time...but I
want to get my plugin done first.

What say ye?

-Erica

On 8/9/06, Chris Messina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

So I had the question posed to me yet again:

"Ok, we know we should do microformats... but we're not sure where to
start. Can you help us out?"

Seeing as how I'm probably not alone here, I was going to create a
"Getting started with microformats" page when I discovered a bunch of
confused pages that seem to be half-hearted attempts to solve this
problem:

* http://microformats.org/wiki/introduction
* http://microformats.org/wiki/what-can-you-do-with-microformats
* http://microformats.org/wiki/implement
* http://microformats.org/wiki/getting-started

They all seem to start with definitions and then run out of steam.

I would like to propose (and yes, this means work at some point, but
for now I'm raising the issue) that we create a well-written and
straight forward page that does answer the question: "I'm ready to get
started, so where do I begin?"

We could offer either a case study ("XCorp started by locating all
references to people and locations on their website. They then marked
up their pages using hcard. Specifically, this is the code they
changed..."). or we could offer general step-by-step instructions for
people who have flat HTML or database powered content... or, as I
mentioned before, for people using various tools, we could suggest
that they switch libraries or themes, for example, using the Sandbox
theme in WordPress.

In any case, I need a page to point to that will answer this question
for me... and so rather than dive right in, I thought I'd solicit
recommendations for other folks -- this page should be in the form of
an FAQ, but in the form of actionable information -- hell, make a
screencast -- but whatever it turns out to be, it should answer that
question succinctly and clearly: *once you've convinced someone they
should use microformats, what is the next most simple and satisfying
step that they can take to implement microformats?*

Chris

--
Chris Messina
Agent Provocateur, Citizen Agency &
 Open Source Ambassador-at-Large
Work: http://citizenagency.com
Blog: http://factoryjoe.com/blog
Cell: 412 225-1051
Skype: factoryjoe
This email is:   [ ] bloggable[X] ask first   [ ] private
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Re: [uf-discuss] Getting started with microformats

[Frances Berriman]

Chris Messina wrote:

So I had the question posed to me yet again:

"Ok, we know we should do microformats... but we're not sure where to
start. Can you help us out?"

Seeing as how I'm probably not alone here, I was going to create a
"Getting started with microformats" page when I discovered a bunch of
confused pages that seem to be half-hearted attempts to solve this
problem:

* http://microformats.org/wiki/introduction
* http://microformats.org/wiki/what-can-you-do-with-microformats
* http://microformats.org/wiki/implement
* http://microformats.org/wiki/getting-started

They all seem to start with definitions and then run out of steam.

I would like to propose (and yes, this means work at some point, but
for now I'm raising the issue) that we create a well-written and
straight forward page that does answer the question: "I'm ready to get
started, so where do I begin?"

We could offer either a case study ("XCorp started by locating all
references to people and locations on their website. They then marked
up their pages using hcard. Specifically, this is the code they
changed..."). or we could offer general step-by-step instructions for
people who have flat HTML or database powered content... or, as I
mentioned before, for people using various tools, we could suggest
that they switch libraries or themes, for example, using the Sandbox
theme in WordPress.

In any case, I need a page to point to that will answer this question
for me... and so rather than dive right in, I thought I'd solicit
recommendations for other folks -- this page should be in the form of
an FAQ, but in the form of actionable information -- hell, make a
screencast -- but whatever it turns out to be, it should answer that
question succinctly and clearly: *once you've convinced someone they
should use microformats, what is the next most simple and satisfying
step that they can take to implement microformats?*

Chris

I really like the idea of using a case study.  As I and others have 
found, it's really easy to get into MFs when you actually see a working 
example and have the opportunity to implement them into something you 
already use.  It might be valuable to think of a study that is relevant 
to the kind of people that are asking you that question.  Are they 
business people, bloggers, designers?


Frances
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[uf-discuss] Getting started with microformats

[Chris Messina]

So I had the question posed to me yet again:

"Ok, we know we should do microformats... but we're not sure where to
start. Can you help us out?"

Seeing as how I'm probably not alone here, I was going to create a
"Getting started with microformats" page when I discovered a bunch of
confused pages that seem to be half-hearted attempts to solve this
problem:

* http://microformats.org/wiki/introduction
* http://microformats.org/wiki/what-can-you-do-with-microformats
* http://microformats.org/wiki/implement
* http://microformats.org/wiki/getting-started

They all seem to start with definitions and then run out of steam.

I would like to propose (and yes, this means work at some point, but
for now I'm raising the issue) that we create a well-written and
straight forward page that does answer the question: "I'm ready to get
started, so where do I begin?"

We could offer either a case study ("XCorp started by locating all
references to people and locations on their website. They then marked
up their pages using hcard. Specifically, this is the code they
changed..."). or we could offer general step-by-step instructions for
people who have flat HTML or database powered content... or, as I
mentioned before, for people using various tools, we could suggest
that they switch libraries or themes, for example, using the Sandbox
theme in WordPress.

In any case, I need a page to point to that will answer this question
for me... and so rather than dive right in, I thought I'd solicit
recommendations for other folks -- this page should be in the form of
an FAQ, but in the form of actionable information -- hell, make a
screencast -- but whatever it turns out to be, it should answer that
question succinctly and clearly: *once you've convinced someone they
should use microformats, what is the next most simple and satisfying
step that they can take to implement microformats?*

Chris

--
Chris Messina
Agent Provocateur, Citizen Agency &
 Open Source Ambassador-at-Large
Work: http://citizenagency.com
Blog: http://factoryjoe.com/blog
Cell: 412 225-1051
Skype: factoryjoe
This email is:   [ ] bloggable[X] ask first   [ ] private
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[uf-discuss] Last Call: 'vCard Extensions for Instant Messaging (IM)' to Proposed Standard (draft-jennings-impp-vcard)

[Etan Wexler]

The IESG has received a request from an individual submitter to consider 
the following document:


- 'vCard Extensions for Instant Messaging (IM)'
as a Proposed Standard

The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
final comments on this action.  Please send any comments to the
iesg@ietf.org or ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2006-08-24.

The file can be obtained via
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-jennings-impp-vcard-07.txt

(Etan Wexler notes a better service of the draft in question: 
.)


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