Re: [Mimedefang] Re: Problem on attachment name

2007-01-16 Thread Ing. Andrea Vettori
I've sent a bug report to Apple but I don't know if they respond  
quickly and certainly it can pass a lot of time before all Apple  
Mail users upgrade. Before this every mimedefang/f-secure server  
that receives AppleMail mail with spaces on attachment name will  
fail...


Apple confirmed the bug and says they are working on it. Now I really  
need a temporary workaround. Any hint ?


Thank you

--
Ing. Andrea Vettori
Consulente per l'Information Technology



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Re: [Mimedefang] Problems with outgoing bounce messages, unkownuser, plus to many bad files in sendmail queue

2007-01-16 Thread An.H.Nguyen
I've changed my sendmail.cf Timeout option to these values and notice that 
only a couple of bounce emails get generated (vs hundreds before)
I am not sure if the otpion "O Timeout.queuewarn.dsn=0s" is the one that 
stops sendmail from sending out those non deliverable messages
Do you know if any of these options may cause any unwanted behavior?  I 
realize that this is a sendmail fqa but imagine if someone knows the answer 
out of the head that will be great help for me.
I still see more files in sendmail queue than reported in mailq command. Is 
there any mimedefang filter code to block these extra files from writing 
into the queue?  Thanks!


O Timeout.queuereturn=2d
O Timeout.queuereturn.dsn=5h
O Timeout.queuewarn=4h
O Timeout.queuewarn.dsn=0s


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Re: [Mimedefang] Re: compare mimedefang to mailscanner

2007-01-16 Thread Jeff Rife
On 16 Jan 2007 at 12:10, John Rudd wrote:

> And I would like to second that statement.  I've used both quite a bit 
> in both home environments and in mission critical production 
> environments.  I don't think MailScanner is an inferior package.  With 
> one exception (the order in which it does its checks) it is VERY good at 
> attacking the anti-virus/anti-spam problem with the strategy it uses. 
> It's just not the strategy I prefer.
> 
> MIMEDefang is _also_ VERY good at attacking that problem with its own 
> strategy.  It's just not the same strategy that MailScanner uses.  And, 
> clearly, I prefer MIMEDefang's strategy.

The ordering of the checks plus the ability to add more ways to reject 
also allows MIMEDefang to do less for each e-mail.  The vast majority
of connections to my box don't ever result in a virus or spam scan,
because they are rejected long before that.  I don't even use any DNSBL 
or other outright blocking...every connection is evaluated on its own 
merits (or lack thereof :).

> The one thing I would say is a weakness with MIMEDefang is that, as 
> Scott suggests, there's a little bit of a learning curve if you want to 
> strike out on your own.

When I started with MIMEDefang I hadn't even *seen* a Perl program 
before, and it took me very little time to get a system up and 
running...several weeks at the most.  It did take me quite a while to 
get all my policy coded, but a lot of that time was deciding on what 
the policy should be.


--
Jeff Rife | "Isn't that just great?  I can't find a real 
  |  relationship...I'm incapable of meaningless 
  |  sex...what does that leave me?  Oh, my 
  |  God...I'm gonna have to learn computers." 
  | -- Jon Cryer, "Partners" 


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RE: [Mimedefang] compare mimedefang to mailscanner

2007-01-16 Thread Tim Boyer
>
> > I have been using mimedefang for a couple of years now and just today
> > ran across the mailscanner program. On first glance it appears that the
> > 2 do about the same thing. Have some of the experts here tried both of
> > these and have a comparison as to how they differ? Is it worth my while
> > to spend time trying to configure mailscanner?
>
> The biggest difference between the two is that MIMEDefang, being a milter,
> can act on a message DURING the original SMTP conversation thus allowing
> rejections, grey/black/whitelisting, and other actions to be taken before
> the entire message is even accepted.
>
> If you REJECT a connection while it is in progress, there's no need to
> generate a separate bounce notification after the fact, which will likely
> just clog up your outbound mail queue.  You just send a rejection to the
> connecting server, and drop the connection, effectively slamming
> the door on
> the spammer.
>

This brings up the mail reason I'm not using MailScanner.  Mail rejected
during the SMTP conversation goes back to the sending server.  Mail bounced
afterwards goes wherever the spammer wants it to go.  Google 'backscatter
spam'.

--
Tim Boyer
Director
Information Systems and Engineering Projects
Denman Tire Corporation
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [Mimedefang] compare mimedefang to mailscanner

2007-01-16 Thread Kenneth Irving
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007, John Rudd wrote:

> Kenneth Irving wrote:
>
> >
> > Although I liked MailScanner, I would use it only in equipments with low
> > email traffic. Maybe in your equipment, with that email volume,
> > it'll work OK.
> >
>
> My experience is exactly the opposite.  In an environment with .25M to
> 1M emails per day, MailScanner did just fine on little SunBlade 150
> workstations (four of them, load balanced).  Sure, the latency (between
> accepting a message, and then handing it to the back-line
> POP/IMAP/Webmail server) could be up to 10-15 minutes, but it didn't get
> any worse than that.
>
> In contrast, trying to run MIMEDefang on those same systems was
> pointless.  In order to run enough child processes to keep up with 1-2
> messages per second, the load would shoot so high that it the systems
> would stop accepting email.
>

That's an interesting observation, and shows another difference between
these two mail filters: MIMEDefang is great for filtering email on the
fly, and you can reject or drop messages during SMTP, while with
Mailscanner you can accumulate emails and take more time to process each
one, if you don't mind the latency time (which some users do mind... some
get very impatient).

I find that both, Mailscanner and MIMEDefang are very good mail filters,
different but very good. Personally I prefer MIMEDefang, but in a case
such as the one John is presenting... I think I would take the same
decision.


>
> One of the reasons why it took 2 years to move from MailScanner to
> MIMEDefang, at work, was a) the fallout from trying to do it on that
> hardware, b) the upgrade cycle for moving to Sunfire v220's so that the
> systems were fast enough to do the checks during the SMTP session.
>
>
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[Mimedefang] Re: compare mimedefang to mailscanner

2007-01-16 Thread Scott Silva
Kees Theunissen spake the following on 1/16/2007 2:49 PM:
> On Tue, 16 Jan 2007, John Rudd wrote:
> 
>> 3) MIMEDefang lets you specify the order of checks. With MailScanner, you
>> HAVE to do SpamAssassin first, and Virus Scanning last. That means you're
>> running the very CPU expensive SpamAssassin checks on viruses. With
>> MIMEDefang you can set the order just by re-arranging code in your
>> mimedefang-filter.
> 
> I'm scanning first for viruses with clamav. After that I use the
> expensive SpamAssassin checks only on non virus mails.
> That's the order you prefere.
> I'm not sure that this is cheaper.
> I estimate roughly that I receive about 100 times more spam than
> viruses. That means that I'm scanning about 100 spam mails (that
> could already have been detected by SpamAssassin, and that still
> have to be checked by SpamAssassin anyway) for viruses just to
> block a single virus. This 100 to 1 ratio is also expensive.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Kees.
> 
I agree with you. I have way more spam than viruses. And most of the "viruses"
I see lately are phishing attempts caught by clamav.

-- 

MailScanner is like deodorant...
You hope everybody uses it, and
you notice quickly if they don't

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Re: [Mimedefang] compare mimedefang to mailscanner

2007-01-16 Thread David F. Skoll
Kees Theunissen wrote:

> I'm not sure that this [scanning for viruses first] is cheaper.

It depends on what you do with the mail.  If you discard or
reject spam or spam scoring above a threshold, then it's almost
certainly cheaper to spam-scan first.  If you're only tagging spam
but throwing away viruses, it's probably cheaper to virus-scan first.
The fact that clamd has phishing signatures muddies the waters a bit;
there may be some "viruses" that are really spam.

Regards,

David.
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Re: [Mimedefang] compare mimedefang to mailscanner

2007-01-16 Thread Kees Theunissen
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007, John Rudd wrote:

> 3) MIMEDefang lets you specify the order of checks. With MailScanner, you
> HAVE to do SpamAssassin first, and Virus Scanning last. That means you're
> running the very CPU expensive SpamAssassin checks on viruses. With
> MIMEDefang you can set the order just by re-arranging code in your
> mimedefang-filter.

I'm scanning first for viruses with clamav. After that I use the
expensive SpamAssassin checks only on non virus mails.
That's the order you prefere.
I'm not sure that this is cheaper.
I estimate roughly that I receive about 100 times more spam than
viruses. That means that I'm scanning about 100 spam mails (that
could already have been detected by SpamAssassin, and that still
have to be checked by SpamAssassin anyway) for viruses just to
block a single virus. This 100 to 1 ratio is also expensive.

Regards,

Kees.

-- 
Kees Theunissen
F.O.M.-Institute for Plasma Physics Rijnhuizen, Nieuwegein, Netherlands
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED],  Tel: (+31|0)306096724,  Fax: (+31|0)306031204

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Re: [Mimedefang] Problems with outgoing bounce messages, unkown user, plus to many bad files in sendmail queue

2007-01-16 Thread Kees Theunissen
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007, An.H.Nguyen wrote:

> Below you'll find my filter code and the manual smtp session output and
> one of the bounce message headers (note that I replaced the actual
> server with mimedefang_server and similarly for [EMAIL PROTECTED])
>
> sub filter_recipient
> {
> my($recip, $sender, $ip, $host, $first, $helo, $rcpt_mailer,
> $rcpt_host, $rcpt_addr) = @_;
>
> my $relay = undef;
> $relay = "internal_server" if ($recip =~ m/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/i);

Most of the time $recip will be something like <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.
Note the < and >. Your regular expression is testing for "@domain.com"
at the _end_ of the string.
Try something like:

$relay = "internal_server" if ($recip =~ m/[EMAIL PROTECTED]>?$/i);



Regards,

Kees.

-- 
Kees Theunissen
F.O.M.-Institute for Plasma Physics Rijnhuizen, Nieuwegein, Netherlands
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED],  Tel: (+31|0)306096724,  Fax: (+31|0)306031204

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Re: [Mimedefang] Re: OT: New Attack/Poor SPAMming programming?

2007-01-16 Thread Jan-Pieter Cornet
On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 01:13:04PM -0600, Ben Kamen wrote:
> >Here is a great article about sendmail time-outs (and other antispam 
> >tricks such as greet pause):
> >
> >http://www.acme.com/mail_filtering/sendmail_config_frameset.html

The information is a bit outdated. Also I don't agree with the "DNSBLs
are bad" recommendation (we're blocking over 50% of the mail using
DNSBLs here).

> My original email asked if anyone else was seeing this... not so much
> as "what can I do about it". I've been using sendmail for about 11yrs now.

I just did some stats, I'm seeing about 80 disconnects per minute
due to command timeout... out of about 6000 simultaneous sendmail
connections outstanding.

I used to have the command timeout at 10 minutes, so that meant
800 wasted sendmail processes (about 13%) so I reduced it to 2
minutes (your peers have the option to use that timeout to
cache outgoing sendmail connections. It's polite to leave it
at the maximum recommended MCI_CACHE_TIMEOUT, which is 10 minutes.
(But in over 80% of the cases you'd be polite to spammers...)

-- 
Jan-Pieter Cornet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
!! Disclamer: The addressee of this email is not the intended recipient. !!
!! This is only a test of the echelon and data retention systems. Please !!
!! archive this message indefinitely to allow verification of the logs.  !!
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RE: [Mimedefang] Problems with outgoing bounce messages, unkown user, plus to many bad files in sendmail queue

2007-01-16 Thread Cormack, Ken
> I've got many spam emails sent from non existing senders to unkown users
and 
> do not want to generate bounce messages.
> All files in sendmail queue was removed on Friday and now (Tuesday) I have

> 800+ bounce messages in the queue. Plus, why do I have 9000+ files in the 
> sendmail queue now?

For starters, you might try re-tuning how long sendmail will re-try a
message.  This will cut down substantially, on "stale" messages in the
queue, that are destined for unresponsive or non-existant servers.
Sendmail's default for confTO_QUEUERETURN is an absurd 5 days (actually,
it's 5 days, 23 hours, 59 minutes).  That's 6 days of garbage in your queue.
Try setting that to 2 days.  You'll see a lot less garbage in your queue,
and your users wont have to wait close to a week to find out a valid (but
stalled) mail they sent didn't go through.

Ken

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Re: [Mimedefang] compare mimedefang to mailscanner

2007-01-16 Thread John Rudd

David F. Skoll wrote:

John Rudd wrote:





Btw: thank you for not squelching this topic.  When I tried to have a
similar discussion on the MailScanner list, about a year ago, the
maintainer pretty much banned the topic from discussion (even though I
was, at the time, advocating the mixed approach and not an approach of
"abandoning MailScanner").  It has left a lasting bad impression for me.


Really?  I've worked with Julian on MIME-Tools issues and he seemed
pretty pleasant and reasonable to me.  (Both MIMEDefang and Mailscanner
use MIME-Tools.)



Yeah, in general Julian's a great guy, and very open about off-topic 
conversation on the MS list (general Sendmail config topics, discussions 
of milters that don't compete with MailScanner, etc.).  But I think 
MIMEDefang was just too close to being a direct competitor ... and I 
don't think he agreed with me that it could be something that 
compliments MailScanner instead of competing with MailScanner.


I don't think he begrudges MD, I think he just didn't want it discussed 
on the MS list, even in a complimentary role instead of a competitive role.

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[Mimedefang] Re: compare mimedefang to mailscanner

2007-01-16 Thread Scott Silva
Les Mikesell spake the following on 1/16/2007 11:39 AM:

> I think what you are comparing is whether the example configs you
> could find were close enough to what you needed to cut and paste
> rather than actual complexity or efficiency
> 
It isn't a matter of adding a config. You have to make sure that one config
doesn't smash another over the head. Adding stuff to the filters is just a
little more than cut and paste, unless you happen to find one that does
"everything" you want.

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Re: [Mimedefang] Re: compare mimedefang to mailscanner

2007-01-16 Thread WBrown
John Rudd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 01/16/2007 03:10:29 PM:

> But the other side of that coin is: if you need that kind of 
> hand-holding, you might be better off paying for canit-pro.  It uses 
> MIMEDefang at its core (right? I didn't misinterpret that?), and wraps 
> around that a support/etc. package.  I'm willing to bet that it ends up 
> doing a lot of that kind of "softened learning curve" stuff for you.

Yes, CanIt uses MIMEDefang as it's core, wrapped with a web GUI and a 
database backend for clustering.  I'm using CanIt Pro to filter email for 
71 school districts in Western NY with great success.  I have had very few 
problems, and Roaring Penguin provides great support.  I did set up a 
MIMEDefang box before investigating CanIt Pro and liked the way it works 
(see previous messages about milter operation).  CanIt Pro has also proved 
to be very cost effective for our organization in addition to doing a 
great job filtering mail. 

Disclaimer:  This has been an unsolicited testimonial from a satisfied 
user.

Even though I use CanIt, I read the MD list because I find it fascinating, 
and I learn a lot, but I don't touch any of the code samples, even though 
I could since CanIt comes with full source code.

--
William Brown
Web Development & Messaging Services
Technology Services, WNYRIC, Erie 1 BOCES
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Re: [Mimedefang] Re: compare mimedefang to mailscanner

2007-01-16 Thread John Rudd

David F. Skoll wrote:


I'm not trying to say that MIMEDefang
is better or worse than Mailscanner.  I was just trying to objectively
(as much as possible!) compare their behaviours under different
load conditions.



And I would like to second that statement.  I've used both quite a bit 
in both home environments and in mission critical production 
environments.  I don't think MailScanner is an inferior package.  With 
one exception (the order in which it does its checks) it is VERY good at 
attacking the anti-virus/anti-spam problem with the strategy it uses. 
It's just not the strategy I prefer.


MIMEDefang is _also_ VERY good at attacking that problem with its own 
strategy.  It's just not the same strategy that MailScanner uses.  And, 
clearly, I prefer MIMEDefang's strategy.



The one thing I would say is a weakness with MIMEDefang is that, as 
Scott suggests, there's a little bit of a learning curve if you want to 
strike out on your own.  I've been writing a mimedefang-filter that has 
an extensive set of "on/off switches" and "config variables" at the 
start.  With input from multiple people, that might make an interesting 
way to soften the learning curve (and make it all more usable for 
non-experts in trying to switch on and off different behaviors).


But the other side of that coin is: if you need that kind of 
hand-holding, you might be better off paying for canit-pro.  It uses 
MIMEDefang at its core (right? I didn't misinterpret that?), and wraps 
around that a support/etc. package.  I'm willing to bet that it ends up 
doing a lot of that kind of "softened learning curve" stuff for you.



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Re: [Mimedefang] compare mimedefang to mailscanner

2007-01-16 Thread David F. Skoll
John Rudd wrote:

>> 1) Disk I/O: MIMEDefang will use less disk I/O than Mailscanner
>> because you're not queueing every mail message twice.  In fact, if
>> you have a modern version of Sendmail with SuperSafe set to
>> PostMilter and MIMEDefang rejects or tempfails a message, that
>> queue file won't be sync'd to disk.

> In my experience, this wasn't really a problem.   Mailscanner wants your
> mqueue.in, mqueue, and scratch area to all be on one partition so that
> it can just do "mv" commands to move things around.  So you don't really
> re-queue much if you don't want to (depending on how you hand things
> off to the outgoing sendmail process).

Ah, ok.  On Solaris, "mv" may be synchronous.  On Linux, you really
should fsync the directory to ensure the metadata is updated.  Also,
you were running (as I recall) on a low-end Sun, which typically has
lots of disk bandwidth but relatively little CPU power compared to
most Intel boxes.  In that situation, Mailscanner makes more sense.

> Btw: thank you for not squelching this topic.  When I tried to have a
> similar discussion on the MailScanner list, about a year ago, the
> maintainer pretty much banned the topic from discussion (even though I
> was, at the time, advocating the mixed approach and not an approach of
> "abandoning MailScanner").  It has left a lasting bad impression for me.

Really?  I've worked with Julian on MIME-Tools issues and he seemed
pretty pleasant and reasonable to me.  (Both MIMEDefang and Mailscanner
use MIME-Tools.)

Regards,

David.
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Re: [Mimedefang] compare mimedefang to mailscanner

2007-01-16 Thread John Rudd

David F. Skoll wrote:

John Rudd wrote:


[...] This actually far outweighs the IO bottleneck of clamd's
socket.


Hardly any data flows over clamd's socket.  MIMEDefang just sends the
command:

SCAN /path/to/filename

and clamd reads the file or files to scan itself.

General comments:

1) Disk I/O:  MIMEDefang will use less disk I/O than Mailscanner because
you're not queueing every mail message twice.  In fact, if you have a modern
version of Sendmail with SuperSafe set to PostMilter and MIMEDefang rejects
or tempfails a message, that queue file won't be sync'd to disk.


In my experience, this wasn't really a problem.   Mailscanner wants your 
mqueue.in, mqueue, and scratch area to all be on one partition so that 
it can just do "mv" commands to move things around.  So you don't really 
  re-queue much if you don't want to (depending on how you hand things 
off to the outgoing sendmail process).


But:

a) there's some extra complexity in running extra sendmail processes, 
and only wanting to stop one piece of the puzzle but not all pieces of 
the puzzle.


b) MIMEDefang has a BIG win in that its scratch area can be in memory 
(via RAM disk or tmpfs), whereas MailScanner really wants/needs to be on 
physical disk (due to how it stores messages as they're scanned).




Regards,

David.


Btw: thank you for not squelching this topic.  When I tried to have a 
similar discussion on the MailScanner list, about a year ago, the 
maintainer pretty much banned the topic from discussion (even though I 
was, at the time, advocating the mixed approach and not an approach of 
"abandoning MailScanner").  It has left a lasting bad impression for me.

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[Mimedefang] Problems with outgoing bounce messages, unkown user, plus to many bad files in sendmail queue

2007-01-16 Thread An.H.Nguyen
I've got many spam emails sent from non existing senders to unkown users and 
do not want to generate bounce messages.
All files in sendmail queue was removed on Friday and now (Tuesday) I have 
800+ bounce messages in the queue. Plus, why do I have 9000+ files in the 
sendmail queue now?

I hope Mimedefang can help reducing the problem but I am new to it.
Have I missed anything here? The manual smtp tests indicates that it can 
validate recipient users, but many bounce messages still got created (by 
localhost (localhost)) and stuck in the queue.


Please advise! Thank You (:
Below you'll find my filter code and the manual smtp session output and one 
of the bounce message headers (note that I replaced the actual server with 
mimedefang_server and similarly for [EMAIL PROTECTED])


sub filter_recipient
{
 my($recip, $sender, $ip, $host, $first, $helo, $rcpt_mailer,
$rcpt_host, $rcpt_addr) = @_;

 my $relay = undef;
 $relay = "internal_server" if ($recip =~ m/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/i);
 if ($relay)
 {
 return md_check_against_smtp_server($sender, $recip,
"mimedefang_server", $relay);
 }

 return('CONTINUE', "OK");  # accept recipient if dont find relay
}


c:\telnet mimedefang_server 25
220 ESMTP Mailer Ready
helo a.abc.com
250 mimedefang_server Hello client_host [x.x.x.x], pleased to meet you
mail from:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
250 2.1.0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender ok
rcpt to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
550 5.7.1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] No such user
rcpt to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
250 2.1.5 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Recipient ok


Bounce message header:
-
Return-Path: <g>
Received: from localhost (localhost)by mimedefang_server (8.13.8/8.13.8) id 
l0GJSJuE006458;Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:28:19 -0800 (PST)

Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:28:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Full-Name: Mail Delivery Subsystem
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; 
report-type=delivery-status;boundary="l0GJSJuE006458.1168975699/mimedefang_server"

Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure)

The original message was received at Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:28:16 -0800 (PST)
from 88-109-190-72.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com [88.109.190.72]
  - The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   (reason: 550 5.1.1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>... User unknown)
  - Transcript of session follows -
... while talking to internal_server.:

DATA

<<< 550 5.1.1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>... User unknown
550 5.1.1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>... User unknown
<<< 503 5.0.0 Need RCPT (recipient)






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Re: [Mimedefang] Re: compare mimedefang to mailscanner

2007-01-16 Thread Les Mikesell

Scott Silva wrote:

I wanted to do a trial of f-prot. Just installed the rpm for f-prot, added its
name to the config file, and now my system is scanning with 4 virus scanners.
Took 5 minutes of my valuable time. It took several hours getting mimedefang
going on just the smtp checks.
  

I think what you are comparing is whether the example configs you
could find were close enough to what you needed to cut and paste
rather than actual complexity or efficiency

--
 Les Mikesell
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [Mimedefang] Re: compare mimedefang to mailscanner

2007-01-16 Thread David F. Skoll
Scott Silva wrote:

> But can you run multiple virus scanners with mimedefang?

Sure.

> How will that add to the startup costs of more than one virus scanner?

If they are command-line virus-scanners, performance will be terrible.

If you have as a requirement the need to run multiple command-line
virus-scanners on large quantities of e-mail, then MIMEDefang is the
wrong choice.  (Well, actually, a non-daemonizable virus-scanner is the
wrong choice, but I won't get too deeply into mudslinging. :-))

> I am currently running mimedefang for check_against_smtp_server and
> mailscanner with spamassassin for virus scanning and spam. If I add a
> supported virus scanner in mailscanner, I just have to add its name to the
> config file and reload. How much code do I have to write in mimedefang to do
> the same?

If the virus scanner is already supported, not much.  There are probably
examples on the wiki.

[...]

> Sure, mimedefang is like a swiss army knife. In the right hands, it
> can do almost everything. ...but I am no McGyver, so I can't save
> the world with just a swiss army knife! I need more tools in my tool
> chest!

MIMEDefang is not for everyone.  I'm not trying to say that MIMEDefang
is better or worse than Mailscanner.  I was just trying to objectively
(as much as possible!) compare their behaviours under different
load conditions.

--
David.
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[Mimedefang] Re: compare mimedefang to mailscanner

2007-01-16 Thread Scott Silva
But can you run multiple virus scanners with mimedefang?
How will that add to the startup costs of more than one virus scanner?
Some virus scanners don't have a socket interface that you can pipe into, and
some that do won't let you pipe between them. Multiple virus scanners help
quite substantially on many new viruses, as the time lag between detection and
signature update can be different between them.

I am currently running mimedefang for check_against_smtp_server and
mailscanner with spamassassin for virus scanning and spam. If I add a
supported virus scanner in mailscanner, I just have to add its name to the
config file and reload. How much code do I have to write in mimedefang to do
the same?
I wanted to do a trial of f-prot. Just installed the rpm for f-prot, added its
name to the config file, and now my system is scanning with 4 virus scanners.
Took 5 minutes of my valuable time. It took several hours getting mimedefang
going on just the smtp checks.

Sure, mimedefang is like a swiss army knife. In the right hands, it can do
almost everything. ...but I am no McGyver, so I can't save the world with just
a swiss army knife! I need more tools in my tool chest!

So to end this rant, use the tools you are comfortable with. Both work very
well, and you can do much with either one.

The only one that can tell you which is better is you, and your usage, skill
level, and time available.

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Re: [Mimedefang] compare mimedefang to mailscanner

2007-01-16 Thread David F. Skoll
John Rudd wrote:

> [...] This actually far outweighs the IO bottleneck of clamd's
> socket.

Hardly any data flows over clamd's socket.  MIMEDefang just sends the
command:

SCAN /path/to/filename

and clamd reads the file or files to scan itself.

General comments:

1) Disk I/O:  MIMEDefang will use less disk I/O than Mailscanner because
you're not queueing every mail message twice.  In fact, if you have a modern
version of Sendmail with SuperSafe set to PostMilter and MIMEDefang rejects
or tempfails a message, that queue file won't be sync'd to disk.

2) CPU: MIMEDefang and Mailscanner probably use similar amounts of CPU time.
SpamAssassin and virus-scanners are pigs, no matter how you look at it. :-)

3) Overload: If you are CPU-bound, Mailscanner will handle overload
better than MIMEDefang, because there are no "hard" constraints on how
long it's allowed to take.  During temporary overloads, Mailscanner will just
let your queues grow, while MIMEDefang will tempfail mail (and make things
worse because of all the retries.)

If you are I/O bound, then Mailscanner will probably be worse than MIMEDefang
because of the extra queue I/O.

Regards,

David.
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Re: [Mimedefang] compare mimedefang to mailscanner

2007-01-16 Thread John Rudd

Kenneth Irving wrote:

I've found Sendmail+MIMEDefang+clamd+spamd a very efficient combination.
Tried Postfix+MailScanner+clamscan in another computer and it's very slow,
because Mailscanner doesn't work as a deamon, and doesn't use Clam as a
deamon either, but relies on running clamscan for every email. The overall
result is extremely slow.



I forgot to respond to this part:

This is entirely what I was talking about with "economy of scale". With 
MailScanner, if you're scanning messages in such small batches, and so 
infrequently, that you're spending more time with the clamscan 
start-up/initialization overhead, then it will seem like MailScanner is 
slow.


On the otherhand, if you're scanning 100's of messages per minute, in 
100 message batches, then the start-up overhead of clamscan or sweep is 
so insignificant compared to the actual scanning cost, that you get a 
HUGE benefit from this economy of scale.  This actually far outweighs 
the IO bottleneck of clamd's socket.  MailScanner doesn't have any 
support for clamd exactly because clamd would slow down MailScanner in a 
BIG way.


(a few years back I tried to do a comparison between 
MailScanner+clamav_perl_module and MIMEDefang+clamd to see if either 
could be improved by the other ... and I couldn't -- each of them is 
going in such a different IO model that you can't really imply something 
about one's model based on your experiences with the other model... the 
only answer is: MailScanner is fastest with the perl ClamAV module, and 
2nd fastest with clamscan ... but clamd is a significant liability with 
MailScanner; meanwhile, MIMEDefang is _exactly_ the opposite -- using 
clamscan with MIMEDefang causes a significant slowdown because you pay 
the start-up overhead of clamscan with every message ; using the 
experience of one to try to speed up the other will just lead you to 
headaches)



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Re: [Mimedefang] compare mimedefang to mailscanner

2007-01-16 Thread John Rudd

Kenneth Irving wrote:



Although I liked MailScanner, I would use it only in equipments with low
email traffic. Maybe in your equipment, with that email volume,
it'll work OK.



My experience is exactly the opposite.  In an environment with .25M to 
1M emails per day, MailScanner did just fine on little SunBlade 150 
workstations (four of them, load balanced).  Sure, the latency (between 
accepting a message, and then handing it to the back-line 
POP/IMAP/Webmail server) could be up to 10-15 minutes, but it didn't get 
any worse than that.


In contrast, trying to run MIMEDefang on those same systems was 
pointless.  In order to run enough child processes to keep up with 1-2 
messages per second, the load would shoot so high that it the systems 
would stop accepting email.



One of the reasons why it took 2 years to move from MailScanner to 
MIMEDefang, at work, was a) the fallout from trying to do it on that 
hardware, b) the upgrade cycle for moving to Sunfire v220's so that the 
systems were fast enough to do the checks during the SMTP session.



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RE: [Mimedefang] accept() returned invalidsocket (Numerical resultoutof range), try again

2007-01-16 Thread Robert Jackson
Out of 300 connections that I can have without getting this error, 250
are in ESTABLISHED state, and 50 of them are in TIME_OUT state.

I cannot go over 300 connections without getting this error, which seems
abuserd.  

I have adjusted my sendmail timeouts, and it has not helped at all.  I
will attemp to recompile MIMEDefang and libmilter.

-Rob
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David
F. Skoll
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 5:54 AM
To: mimedefang@lists.roaringpenguin.com
Subject: Re: [Mimedefang] accept() returned invalidsocket (Numerical
resultoutof range), try again

Robert Jackson wrote:

> Not sure where I would make the changes from call() to select(), but I

> did recompile sendmail with in increased number of FD_SETSIZE.  
> Chanaged from 256 to 512.  Didn't really help.

Of course that won't help!  You need to recompile libmilter and
MIMEDefang.  Besides, on most systems, you can't just change FD_SETSIZE
and recompile.  You may also need to recompile the kernel.

What OS are you on?  On most modern UNIXes, FD_SETSIZE is at least 1024.

> Right now there 3 servers in the pool, and I have to keep the 
> connection limit to 325 or less.  Even if each is up to 500, they get
maxed out.

See the timeout discussion -- maybe you have a lot of idle sendmails
hanging around unnecessarily.

Regards,

David.
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Re: [Mimedefang] compare mimedefang to mailscanner

2007-01-16 Thread John Rudd

Mike Campbell wrote:
I have been using mimedefang for a couple of years now and just today 
ran across the mailscanner program. On first glance it appears that the 
2 do about the same thing. Have some of the experts here tried both of 
these and have a comparison as to how they differ? Is it worth my while 
to spend time trying to configure mailscanner?


For what it is worth my mail server currently processes around 500-600 
messages a day on a P3 500 mhz machine with 128 meg of memory.




The big differences are:

1) MIMEDefang happens during the SMTP session, so you have the option to 
do things like tempfails (SMTP 4xx return code), which allows you to do 
Greylisting, or rejections (SMTP 5xx return code).   MailScanner needs 2 
mail queues (one for pre-scanned mail, one for post-scanned mail), and 
does not happen during the SMTP session (so your only options are 
deliver, clean, silently delete (bad), send back a bounce report (bad)). 
 So, MIMEDefang lets you _reject_/refuse-to-accept a virus, a bad 
attachment, or a high-scoring spam message.  MailScanner does not.


(this also means that MailScanner has a sometimes significant latency 
between when it accepts a message, and when that message finally gets to 
the local recipient; in large environments this latency can be 
noticeable, and cause complaints from your users)


2) MailScanner gets an economy of scale out of doing HUGE volumes of 
anti-virus scans in one pass.  For example, MailScanner's 2 fastest 
virus scanners are the command-line sophos sweep, and the command-line 
clamscan (not clamdscan; clamd significantly slows things down for 
MailScanner).  In contrast, these are very SLOW mechanisms for 
MIMEDefang, because MIMEDefang doesn't get that economy of scale (with 
MIMEDefang you really DO want to use clamd).  For your 500-600 messages 
per day, you probably wont really see that economy of scale with 
MailScanner.


3) MIMEDefang lets you specify the order of checks.   With MailScanner, 
you HAVE to do SpamAssassin first, and Virus Scanning last.  That means 
you're running the very CPU expensive SpamAssassin checks on viruses. 
With MIMEDefang, you can set the order just by re-arranging code in your 
mimedefang-filter.


4) MIMEDefang also lets you do other kinds of checks: checks on the 
relay, checks on the sender, checks on each recipient, all before you do 
any other spam/virus checks.  This lets you do anything from blocking 
suspicious content, to doing the equivalent of "milter-ahead" to verify 
that a destination host has the recipient's address (with MailScanner 
you have to either use milter-ahead, or keep an up-to-date aliases file, 
or something like that).



That said, you CAN use them together.  You could use MIMEDefang for fast 
checks and during-SMTP-session checks (relay checks, helo checks, sender 
checks, recipient checks, attachment filename checks, maybe clamd 
anti-virus checks), and then use MailScanner for bulk checks and checks 
that would slow down your SMTP sessions (other virus scanners, 
SpamAssassin).  This reduces the amount of messages you're submitting to 
MailScanner (and thus SpamAssassin), and if you do clamd with MIMEDefang 
you're not going to be spamscanning most of your virus traffic nor 
bad-attachment traffic.



Personally, I stopped using MailScanner at home 2 years ago, and stopped 
using MailScanner at work 2 months ago.  I greatly prefer MIMEDefang. 
But, it does require a bit more CPU (so that you can do all of those 
checks on a per-message basis, and during the SMTP session before it 
times out).  But your traffic levels shouldn't be a big burden to most 
machines.


MailScanner is a great package.  I just prefer to have the option to 
reject content instead of cleaning/marking it and then delivering it.



(and, to be fair, I will probably stop using MIMEDefang at home, in the 
not so distant future; I am switching MTA's from Sendmail to CommuniGate 
Pro; CGP doesn't use the milter interface, but uses a plugin interface 
of a different kind ... so I'm in the process of building up the 
infrastructure for those plugins;  it's nothing against MIMEDefang -- if 
CGP had a means of using milters, I would keep using MIMEDefang with CGP)




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Re: [Mimedefang] compare mimedefang to mailscanner

2007-01-16 Thread Kenneth Irving

I've found Sendmail+MIMEDefang+clamd+spamd a very efficient combination.
Tried Postfix+MailScanner+clamscan in another computer and it's very slow,
because Mailscanner doesn't work as a deamon, and doesn't use Clam as a
deamon either, but relies on running clamscan for every email. The overall
result is extremely slow.

Although I liked MailScanner, I would use it only in equipments with low
email traffic. Maybe in your equipment, with that email volume,
it'll work OK.

Today I'm using sendmail+mimedefang+clamd+spamd on a Pentium II 400 MHz
with 384 Mb RAM and it is handling between 1 to 2 emails per day
without problem. That would be absolutely impossible to handle with
Mailscanner unless I used a better server.

Hope you find the expirience useful.
best regards
Kenneth


On Tue, 16 Jan 2007, Mike Campbell wrote:

> I have been using mimedefang for a couple of years now and just today
> ran across the mailscanner program. On first glance it appears that the
> 2 do about the same thing. Have some of the experts here tried both of
> these and have a comparison as to how they differ? Is it worth my while
> to spend time trying to configure mailscanner?
>
> For what it is worth my mail server currently processes around 500-600
> messages a day on a P3 500 mhz machine with 128 meg of memory.
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
>  Mike Campbell
>
>
>
> ___
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> message, it is NULL AND VOID.  You may ignore it.
>
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> http://lists.roaringpenguin.com/mailman/listinfo/mimedefang
>


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RE: [Mimedefang] compare mimedefang to mailscanner

2007-01-16 Thread Cormack, Ken
> I have been using mimedefang for a couple of years now and just today 
> ran across the mailscanner program. On first glance it appears that the 
> 2 do about the same thing. Have some of the experts here tried both of 
> these and have a comparison as to how they differ? Is it worth my while 
> to spend time trying to configure mailscanner?

The biggest difference between the two is that MIMEDefang, being a milter,
can act on a message DURING the original SMTP conversation thus allowing
rejections, grey/black/whitelisting, and other actions to be taken before
the entire message is even accepted.

If you REJECT a connection while it is in progress, there's no need to
generate a separate bounce notification after the fact, which will likely
just clog up your outbound mail queue.  You just send a rejection to the
connecting server, and drop the connection, effectively slamming the door on
the spammer.

With mail scanner, you've already received the message in full (and said
"thank you very much" to the spammer), before you even begin looking at what
you've just received.

Ken

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Re: [Mimedefang] New to Mimedefang

2007-01-16 Thread Cam
That is standard for every install of MD that I have ever done (short of
not having a few of the perl modules that I installed also).  What are you
showing below that you think is a problem?

Cam.


On Tue, January 16, 2007 08:59, R.Linga Reddy wrote:

> *** Virus scanner detection results:
> H+BEDV   'antivir'   NO (not found)
> Vexira   'vascan'NO (not found)
> NAI  'uvscan'NO (not found)
> BDC  'bdc'   NO (not found)
> Sophos   'sweep' NO (not found)
> TREND'vscan' NO (not found)
> CLAMSCAN 'clamav'YES - /usr/local/bin/clamscan
> AVP  'AvpLinux'  NO (not found)
> AVP5 'aveclient' NO (not found)
> KAVSCANNER 'kavscanner' NO (not found)
> CSAV 'csav'  NO (not found)
> FSAV 'fsav'  NO (not found)
> FPROT'f-prot'NO (not found)
> SOPHIE   'sophie'NO (not found)
> NVCC 'nvcc'  NO (not found)
> CLAMD'clamd' YES - /usr/local/sbin/clamd
> TROPHIE  'trophie'   NO (not found)
>
>
> Make sure clamd runs as the defang user!
> ...and make sure you use clamd version 0.67 or higher.
>
>
> Found Mail::SpamAssassin.  You may use spam_assassin_* functions
> Did not find Anomy::HTMLCleaner.  Do not use anomy_clean_html()
> Found HTML::Parser.  You may use append_html_boilerplate()
>
>
> Note: SpamAssassin, HTML::Parser and Anomy::HTMLCleaner are
> detected at run-time, so if you install or remove any of those modules,
> you do not need to re-run ./configure and make a new mimedefang.pl.




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[Mimedefang] compare mimedefang to mailscanner

2007-01-16 Thread Mike Campbell
I have been using mimedefang for a couple of years now and just today 
ran across the mailscanner program. On first glance it appears that the 
2 do about the same thing. Have some of the experts here tried both of 
these and have a comparison as to how they differ? Is it worth my while 
to spend time trying to configure mailscanner?


For what it is worth my mail server currently processes around 500-600 
messages a day on a P3 500 mhz machine with 128 meg of memory.


--

Thanks,
Mike Campbell



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Re: [Mimedefang] New to Mimedefang

2007-01-16 Thread Paul Murphy
This is not a problem - you do not understand the output.  It is telling you 
that it can search for any of the listed virus scanners, and successfully found 
two of them.  This is all informational output.

Paul.

>>> "R.Linga Reddy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 16/01/2007 14:59 >>>
Hi
Steffen

plz see below the problem

*** Virus scanner detection results:
H+BEDV   'antivir'   NO (not found)
Vexira   'vascan'NO (not found)
NAI  'uvscan'NO (not found)
BDC  'bdc'   NO (not found)
Sophos   'sweep' NO (not found)
TREND'vscan' NO (not found)
CLAMSCAN 'clamav'YES - /usr/local/bin/clamscan
AVP  'AvpLinux'  NO (not found)
AVP5 'aveclient' NO (not found)
KAVSCANNER 'kavscanner' NO (not found)
CSAV 'csav'  NO (not found)
FSAV 'fsav'  NO (not found)
FPROT'f-prot'NO (not found)
SOPHIE   'sophie'NO (not found)
NVCC 'nvcc'  NO (not found)
CLAMD'clamd' YES - /usr/local/sbin/clamd
TROPHIE  'trophie'   NO (not found)

Make sure clamd runs as the defang user!
   ...and make sure you use clamd version 0.67 or higher.

Found Mail::SpamAssassin.  You may use spam_assassin_* functions
Did not find Anomy::HTMLCleaner.  Do not use anomy_clean_html()
Found HTML::Parser.  You may use append_html_boilerplate()

Note: SpamAssassin, HTML::Parser and Anomy::HTMLCleaner are
detected at run-time, so if you install or remove any of those modules, you
do not need to re-run ./configure and make a new mimedefang.pl.


-- 

---
Paul Murphy
Head of I.T.
Argenta Discovery
Tel. 01279 645 554
Fax. 01279 645 646



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Re: [Mimedefang] New to Mimedefang

2007-01-16 Thread David F. Skoll
R.Linga Reddy wrote:

> plz see below the problem

There is no problem.  Those messages are purely for
information.  Continue building.

--
David.
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Re: [Mimedefang] New to Mimedefang

2007-01-16 Thread R.Linga Reddy

Hi
Steffen

plz see below the problem

*** Virus scanner detection results:
H+BEDV   'antivir'   NO (not found)
Vexira   'vascan'NO (not found)
NAI  'uvscan'NO (not found)
BDC  'bdc'   NO (not found)
Sophos   'sweep' NO (not found)
TREND'vscan' NO (not found)
CLAMSCAN 'clamav'YES - /usr/local/bin/clamscan
AVP  'AvpLinux'  NO (not found)
AVP5 'aveclient' NO (not found)
KAVSCANNER 'kavscanner' NO (not found)
CSAV 'csav'  NO (not found)
FSAV 'fsav'  NO (not found)
FPROT'f-prot'NO (not found)
SOPHIE   'sophie'NO (not found)
NVCC 'nvcc'  NO (not found)
CLAMD'clamd' YES - /usr/local/sbin/clamd
TROPHIE  'trophie'   NO (not found)

Make sure clamd runs as the defang user!
  ...and make sure you use clamd version 0.67 or higher.

Found Mail::SpamAssassin.  You may use spam_assassin_* functions
Did not find Anomy::HTMLCleaner.  Do not use anomy_clean_html()
Found HTML::Parser.  You may use append_html_boilerplate()

Note: SpamAssassin, HTML::Parser and Anomy::HTMLCleaner are
detected at run-time, so if you install or remove any of those modules, you
do not need to re-run ./configure and make a new mimedefang.pl.



At 06:34 PM 16/01/07, you wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007, R.Linga Reddy wrote:

I installing mimedefang while configuring the mimedefang i am 
facing below problem


What is the problem?

- -- Steffen Kaiser
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=qJT8
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Re: [Mimedefang] New to Mimedefang

2007-01-16 Thread Steffen Kaiser

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007, R.Linga Reddy wrote:

I installing mimedefang while configuring the mimedefang i am facing below 
problem


What is the problem?

- -- 
Steffen Kaiser

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

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=qJT8
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___
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[Mimedefang] New to Mimedefang

2007-01-16 Thread R.Linga Reddy

Dear All,

I installing mimedefang while configuring the mimedefang i am facing 
below problem

Please help me in this record

Regards,
Linga Reddy


*** Virus scanner detection results:
H+BEDV   'antivir'   NO (not found)
Vexira   'vascan'NO (not found)
NAI  'uvscan'NO (not found)
BDC  'bdc'   NO (not found)
Sophos   'sweep' NO (not found)
TREND'vscan' NO (not found)
CLAMSCAN 'clamav'YES - /usr/local/bin/clamscan
AVP  'AvpLinux'  NO (not found)
AVP5 'aveclient' NO (not found)
KAVSCANNER 'kavscanner' NO (not found)
CSAV 'csav'  NO (not found)
FSAV 'fsav'  NO (not found)
FPROT'f-prot'NO (not found)
SOPHIE   'sophie'NO (not found)
NVCC 'nvcc'  NO (not found)
CLAMD'clamd' YES - /usr/local/sbin/clamd
TROPHIE  'trophie'   NO (not found)

Make sure clamd runs as the defang user!
  ...and make sure you use clamd version 0.67 or higher.

Found Mail::SpamAssassin.  You may use spam_assassin_* functions
Did not find Anomy::HTMLCleaner.  Do not use anomy_clean_html()
Found HTML::Parser.  You may use append_html_boilerplate()

Note: SpamAssassin, HTML::Parser and Anomy::HTMLCleaner are
detected at run-time, so if you install or remove any of those modules, you
do not need to re-run ./configure and make a new mimedefang.pl.

___
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Re: [Mimedefang] filtering words from the subject line

2007-01-16 Thread Steffen Kaiser

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Can I find a MD rule somewhere on how to filter out a list of unwanted
words in the subject header from incoming E-mails?


See the list archive, why this is a bad idea.

If you insist in using it:

Add this conditional into the filter_begin() function:


if($Subject =~ m// ) {
return action_bounce("bad subject");
}

Put your regex between the slashes of  m//.

Bye,

- -- 
Steffen Kaiser

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