Re: problems with non-utf8 characters in mutt after upgrading to 5.4

[Kārlis Miķelsons]

Hello Denis,

I think you may have forgotten to set PKG_PATH to new value (with 5.4 
in it),
when running "pkg_add -u" after upgrading from OpenBSD 5.3 to OpenBSD 
5.4.


This mistake may cause installation of old 5.3 packages into new 5.4 
system.
Try to compare versions of linked libraries (ldd mutt etc) with 
"vanilla"

system.
No, it's not the case, I've got my PKG_PATH set up in /etc/pkg.conf and 
it is

and always has been correct.


--
Karlis

Re: OPENBSD FUNDING SOLUTION -- COME AND PARTICIPATE

[noah pugsley]

On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Brian Stubbe Vangsgaard wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
>  Maybe 14 other business owners in my position can do the same?
>>
>
> I just convinced my employer to do it.
>
>
>  Is anyone with me here?
>>
>
> Ofc.
>
>
>  There is this cool web site that automates the process:
>> http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html
>>
>> Chris
>>
>
> Thank you for your OpenBSD Order!
> In case of problems or questions about this order,
> please contact aus...@openbsd.org
>
> Order number 2014/1/19-9:39:22-21XXX:
> Your order currently is:
> -> CDN $100.00 [DON] DONATION to the OpenBSD Project
> -> Total: CDN $100.00 + Shipping.
>
> This is my personal donation, keep up the good work!
>
>
> --
> Med venlig hilsen / kind regards
> Brian S. Vangsgaard
>
>
Just saw this on slashdot:
http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/01/19/romanian-billionaire-saves-openbsd/

Any idea if it's true?

Re: Power consumption of various architectures

[Артур Истомин]

On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 09:43:20PM +0100, Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 01:56:05PM +, Miod Vallat wrote:
> > > Having used most of the architectures out there,
> > > can you please say which of them consume most/least power
> > > in regular operation of OpenBSD, if you have such statistics?
> > 
> > I can't tell for the exact machines Theo is using, but here are a few
> > values from my bunker:
> > 
> > - VAX 4000/106 (fast vax, 100MHz processor), quite similar to the one
> >   Theo is using, two SCSI disks: about 95W.
> > 
> > - Alpha LX164 (2nd generation alpha, 533MHz processor), with a modern (2
> >   years old) ATX power supply, only one disk: about 85W.
> > 
> > - SGI Fuel (700MHz R16000), original power supply: about 200W.
> > 
> > - 1.4GHz G4 Mac mini: 40W.
> > 
> > - SPARCstation 20, 150MHz RT625 processor, one disk: about 115W.
> > 
> > - Sun Blade 100 (500MHz UltraSPARC-IIe): about 65W.
> > 
> > - HP Visualize B2000 (400MHz PA-RISC): about 130W.
> > 
> > - Lemote Fuloong 2F (800MHz): about 20W.
> > 
> > - Plextor PX-EH160L (landisk): about 15W.
> 
> HP PA-RISC J6750 with 2 CPUs, 2 SCSI disks and 2GB of RAM: about 250W
> 
> Beagle Bone Black at full speed: 3W

How can i find out this numbers? From power block sticker?

Re: problems with non-utf8 characters in mutt after upgrading to 5.4

[Christopher Ahrens]

Denis wrote:

Hi Karlis,

I think you may have forgotten to set PKG_PATH to new value (with 5.4 in it),
when running "pkg_add -u" after upgrading from OpenBSD 5.3 to OpenBSD 5.4.



This is why I set my PKG_PATH in .profile to:
/pub/`uname -s`/`uname -r`/packages/`machine -a`/

with a sym-link for release+1 to /snapshots (ie 5.5 -> snapshots) on
the ftp server (I've built a local mirror)

That way its always pointed to the right repository no matter what box I 
am using, whether is one of production boxes running an older release

of OpenBSD, one of my FreeBSD boxes (xbmc, splunk, etc) or my OpenBSD
desktop running -current as well as being platform agnostic.  It hasn't
needed a change since at least 4.2 when I first started using OpenBSD.

Re: Power consumption of various architectures

[Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado]

On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 01:56:05PM +, Miod Vallat wrote:
> > Having used most of the architectures out there,
> > can you please say which of them consume most/least power
> > in regular operation of OpenBSD, if you have such statistics?
> 
> I can't tell for the exact machines Theo is using, but here are a few
> values from my bunker:
> 
> - VAX 4000/106 (fast vax, 100MHz processor), quite similar to the one
>   Theo is using, two SCSI disks: about 95W.
> 
> - Alpha LX164 (2nd generation alpha, 533MHz processor), with a modern (2
>   years old) ATX power supply, only one disk: about 85W.
> 
> - SGI Fuel (700MHz R16000), original power supply: about 200W.
> 
> - 1.4GHz G4 Mac mini: 40W.
> 
> - SPARCstation 20, 150MHz RT625 processor, one disk: about 115W.
> 
> - Sun Blade 100 (500MHz UltraSPARC-IIe): about 65W.
> 
> - HP Visualize B2000 (400MHz PA-RISC): about 130W.
> 
> - Lemote Fuloong 2F (800MHz): about 20W.
> 
> - Plextor PX-EH160L (landisk): about 15W.

HP PA-RISC J6750 with 2 CPUs, 2 SCSI disks and 2GB of RAM: about 250W

Beagle Bone Black at full speed: 3W

-- 
Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado http://juanfra.info

Re: Shutdown on low battery with sensorsd

[Sergey Bronnikov]

Delay can be due to a limitations of sensorsd(8):

CAVEATS
 Certain sensors may flip status from time to time.  To guard against
 false reports, sensorsd implements a state dumping mechanism.  However,
 this inevitably introduces an additional delay in status reporting and
 command execution, e.g. one may notice that sensorsd makes its initial
 report about the state of monitored sensors not immediately, but about 60
 seconds after it is started.
Sergey Bronnikov


On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 10:34 PM, Laurence Rochfort
 wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm trying to use sensorsd to shutdown my Thinkpad T410 laptop when
> the battery reaches the "low capacity" level. However, when I add the
> line shown below to sensorsd.conf the laptop always shutdown within a
> couple of minutes of booting regardless of the current battery level
> or if running on AC power.
>
> The line I added to sensorsd.conf is:
>
> hw.sensors.acpibat0.amphour3:low=0.02Ah:command=/sbin/shutdown -hp now
>
> The sysctl output for my battery is:
>
> hw.sensors.acpibat0.volt0=10.80 VDC (voltage)
> hw.sensors.acpibat0.volt1=11.17 VDC (current voltage)
> hw.sensors.acpibat0.current0=0.99 A (rate)
> hw.sensors.acpibat0.amphour0=4.93 Ah (last full capacity)
> hw.sensors.acpibat0.amphour1=0.25 Ah (warning capacity)
> hw.sensors.acpibat0.amphour2=0.02 Ah (low capacity)
> hw.sensors.acpibat0.amphour3=0.27 Ah (remaining capacity), OK
> hw.sensors.acpibat0.raw0=2 (battery charging), OK
> hw.sensors.acpiac0.indicator0=On (power supply)
>
> Any suggestions as to what I'm doing wrong?
>
> Regards,
> Laurence.

Re: Shutdown on low battery with sensorsd

[Laurence Rochfort]

A fellow subscriber noticed that I didn't have a space between 0.02 and Ah.

Changing the sensorsd.conf line to the following makes everything work:

hw.sensors.acpibat0.amphour3:low=0.02 Ah:command=/sbin/shutdown -hp now

Regards,
Laurence.

On 19 January 2014 18:34, Laurence Rochfort  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm trying to use sensorsd to shutdown my Thinkpad T410 laptop when
> the battery reaches the "low capacity" level. However, when I add the
> line shown below to sensorsd.conf the laptop always shutdown within a
> couple of minutes of booting regardless of the current battery level
> or if running on AC power.
>
> The line I added to sensorsd.conf is:
>
> hw.sensors.acpibat0.amphour3:low=0.02Ah:command=/sbin/shutdown -hp now
>
> The sysctl output for my battery is:
>
> hw.sensors.acpibat0.volt0=10.80 VDC (voltage)
> hw.sensors.acpibat0.volt1=11.17 VDC (current voltage)
> hw.sensors.acpibat0.current0=0.99 A (rate)
> hw.sensors.acpibat0.amphour0=4.93 Ah (last full capacity)
> hw.sensors.acpibat0.amphour1=0.25 Ah (warning capacity)
> hw.sensors.acpibat0.amphour2=0.02 Ah (low capacity)
> hw.sensors.acpibat0.amphour3=0.27 Ah (remaining capacity), OK
> hw.sensors.acpibat0.raw0=2 (battery charging), OK
> hw.sensors.acpiac0.indicator0=On (power supply)
>
> Any suggestions as to what I'm doing wrong?
>
> Regards,
> Laurence.

Can't install/update any ports after latest snapshot

[Chris Bennett]

pkg_add -ui and pkg_add -ui -D nosig both  peg out at 99% CPU and need
kill -9 PID to stop process.
Fails at installing part.

Won't work for updates or new installs.


OpenBSD 5.5-beta (GENERIC) #232: Fri Jan 17 15:59:15 MST 2014
t...@i386.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC
cpu0: Mobile Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 - M CPU 2.00GHz ("GenuineIntel"
686-class) 2 GHz
cpu0:

FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,CNXT-ID,xTPR,PERF
real mem  = 536252416 (511MB)
avail mem = 515604480 (491MB)
mainbus0 at root
bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+ BIOS, date 01/12/04, BIOS32 rev. 0 @
0xffe90, SMBIOS rev. 2.3 @ 0xf76a0 (61 entries)
bios0: vendor Dell Computer Corporation version "A10" date
01/12/2004
bios0: Dell Computer Corporation Latitude C640


Chris Bennett

Shutdown on low battery with sensorsd

[Laurence Rochfort]

Hello,

I'm trying to use sensorsd to shutdown my Thinkpad T410 laptop when
the battery reaches the "low capacity" level. However, when I add the
line shown below to sensorsd.conf the laptop always shutdown within a
couple of minutes of booting regardless of the current battery level
or if running on AC power.

The line I added to sensorsd.conf is:

hw.sensors.acpibat0.amphour3:low=0.02Ah:command=/sbin/shutdown -hp now

The sysctl output for my battery is:

hw.sensors.acpibat0.volt0=10.80 VDC (voltage)
hw.sensors.acpibat0.volt1=11.17 VDC (current voltage)
hw.sensors.acpibat0.current0=0.99 A (rate)
hw.sensors.acpibat0.amphour0=4.93 Ah (last full capacity)
hw.sensors.acpibat0.amphour1=0.25 Ah (warning capacity)
hw.sensors.acpibat0.amphour2=0.02 Ah (low capacity)
hw.sensors.acpibat0.amphour3=0.27 Ah (remaining capacity), OK
hw.sensors.acpibat0.raw0=2 (battery charging), OK
hw.sensors.acpiac0.indicator0=On (power supply)

Any suggestions as to what I'm doing wrong?

Regards,
Laurence.

BSDCan 2014 - last chance

[Dan Langille]

A reminder: today is the last day to submit a proposal for BSDCan 2014.

BSDCan 2014 will be held 16-17 (Fri-Sat) May, 2014 in Ottawa,
at the University of Ottawa. It will be preceded by two
days of tutorials on 14-15 May (Wed-Thu).

We are now accepting proposals for talks.

The talks should be designed with a very strong technical content bias.
Proposals of a business development or marketing nature are not
appropriate for this venue.

See http://www.bsdcan.org/2014/


If you are doing something interesting with a BSD operating system,
please submit a proposal. Whether you are developing a very complex
system using BSD as the foundation, or helping others and have a story
to tell about how BSD played a role, we want to hear about your
experience.  People using BSD as a platform for research are also
encouraged to submit a proposal. Possible topics include:

* How we manage a giant installation with respect to handling spam.
* and/or sysadmin.
* and/or networking.
* Cool new stuff in BSD
* Tell us about your project which runs on BSD
* other topics (see next paragraph)

>From the BSDCan website, the Archives section will allow you to review
the wide variety of past BSDCan presentations as further examples.

Both users and developers are encouraged to share their experiences.

The schedule is:

1 Dec 2013 Proposal acceptance begins
19 Jan 2014 Proposal acceptance ends
19 Feb 2014 Confirmation of accepted proposals

See also 

Instructions for submitting a proposal to BSDCan 2014 are available
from: 

--
Dan Langille - http://langille.org

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature which had 
a name of signature.asc]

Re: OPENBSD FUNDING SOLUTION -- COME AND PARTICIPATE

[Brian Stubbe Vangsgaard]

Hi,


Maybe 14 other business owners in my position can do the same?


I just convinced my employer to do it.


Is anyone with me here?


Ofc.


There is this cool web site that automates the process:
http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html

Chris


Thank you for your OpenBSD Order!
In case of problems or questions about this order,
please contact aus...@openbsd.org

Order number 2014/1/19-9:39:22-21XXX:
Your order currently is:
-> CDN $100.00 [DON] DONATION to the OpenBSD Project
-> Total: CDN $100.00 + Shipping.

This is my personal donation, keep up the good work!


--
Med venlig hilsen / kind regards
Brian S. Vangsgaard

Re: OpenBSD funding status

[Christopher Ahrens]

MJ wrote:

On 18 Jan 2014, at 20.01, Desktop User OpenBSD  
wrote:


Hello,

I would love to subscribe to the monthly donation on:

http://openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html

but I need to ask, say a few things before:

1) The
https://openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html
is redirecting to http://www.obtuse.com/
why? HTTPS should work properly or it shouldn't be there.


Word.


Rather than contributing just some outdated sang, you could have done
something useful, like helping to troubleshoot why the redirect was 
happening.


Speaking of, both sites reside on the same IP, so its probably that the
browser being used or a proxy in between doesn't play nicely with
virtual hosts and tries to connect by raw IP and that obtuse.com comes
first in httpd.conf for that IP address.




2) What is the status of the funding? The CAD$(?) 20,000?



3) Are there any subscriptions too or there are only one-time donations?



I would do a subscription if it were possible, but the amount has to be
entirely of my own choosing. Paypal certainly does offer recurring
payments, so there is no reason not to offer them to people willing
to support the project.



There *is* the possibility of recurring donations (either the first
result of doing an internet search for 'OpenBSD recurring donations' or 
just following the link in the email you replied to, just after the

sender asks about why it wasn't working for them.


4) Could Theo or anyone from the OpenBSD team contact any vendors, or has
the project any bigger subscription donator already?



Again, and I really need to highlight this: when the project
comes to the position that it is asking for money or die, then
the project is also in a requirement to provide financial
transparency.


Why do we need transparency?  Is that so you can nit-pick every expense?
And requirement by whom exactly?  Because last I checked, Theo doesn't
report to you, nor does anyone else around here.


If money is the question, then a mailing list  isn’t the answer
- this is 2014 and most of the world couldn’t  give a flying shit

> about email anymore

Pray tell us, what people are these that you are talking about?
Although I suspect that by 'people' you mean 'me'.


(and if I can additionallystick in a side comment regarding

> antiquity, then give up the FTP already - it’s a dinosaur,

it’s unnecessarily complex,  and it serves no specific purpose when

> HTTP is available.)

No, http is the dinosaur, what with the relatively huge overhead it
requires compared to ftp for file transfers, do you want to make us
use more power?  It isn't even complex, at least not for someone who
can read


5) If something would happen to Theo (which __I don't want or wish__), who
would be the project leader? Son or daughter? Or any lead developers? Are
there any plans for this?
In the book: Absolute OpenBSD (2nd) which came out at April of 2013 says
only one sentence about this:
"Theo takes whatever actions necessary to keep the OpenBSD Project running
smoothly. If something should ever happen to Theo, the project does have
plans for replacing him.”


Maybe Michael knows something that we don’t as the result of an evening
full of beers together with the core team. According to Wikipedia, Theo
is only a year and a half younger than me, so he’s still got at least
30 years in front of him barring accidental death or an incurable tumor.


Or maybe one of these days he gets tired of idiots and leaves the
project?


Corporate attitude likes to propagate the attitude that none of us are
indispensable, but the fact is that unless you are a java coder and by
default travelling down the Ho Chi Min trail then you are also
indispensable. Friends don’t let friends code Java. Period.



You keep using the word 'indespensible', I don't think it means what you
think it means...

Remove the double negatives and you'll see why that sentence doesn't
make a lick of sense.  Also, are you seriously comparing writing Java to
a reprehensible series of war-crimes?  I may be a sociopath(your word, 
not mine) but even I know that is something you don't do.

Re: Power consumption of various architectures

[Marc Espie]

On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 01:56:05PM +, Miod Vallat wrote:
> - VAX 4000/106 (fast vax, 100MHz processor), quite similar to the one
>   Theo is using, two SCSI disks: about 95W.
> - SGI Fuel (700MHz R16000), original power supply: about 200W.
> - HP Visualize B2000 (400MHz PA-RISC): about 130W.

> - Plextor PX-EH160L (landisk): about 15W.

So, imagine, if we ditch VAX, PA-RISC and SGI (425W), we would have enough power
for a cluster of almost 30 landisks !

Nah, just kidding...

Re: Power consumption of various architectures

[Miod Vallat]

> Having used most of the architectures out there,
> can you please say which of them consume most/least power
> in regular operation of OpenBSD, if you have such statistics?

I can't tell for the exact machines Theo is using, but here are a few
values from my bunker:

- VAX 4000/106 (fast vax, 100MHz processor), quite similar to the one
  Theo is using, two SCSI disks: about 95W.

- Alpha LX164 (2nd generation alpha, 533MHz processor), with a modern (2
  years old) ATX power supply, only one disk: about 85W.

- SGI Fuel (700MHz R16000), original power supply: about 200W.

- 1.4GHz G4 Mac mini: 40W.

- SPARCstation 20, 150MHz RT625 processor, one disk: about 115W.

- Sun Blade 100 (500MHz UltraSPARC-IIe): about 65W.

- HP Visualize B2000 (400MHz PA-RISC): about 130W.

- Lemote Fuloong 2F (800MHz): about 20W.

- Plextor PX-EH160L (landisk): about 15W.

Miod

proposal for ports

[Sergey Bronnikov]

Hi

OpenBSD project has ports tree which contains a lot of applications
(about 8k in latest release).
I believe it is a lot of pain for maintainers of these ports to keep
port in 'up to date' state and not less pain to keep eyes on
the latest version of applications.
I suggest to implement target in bsd.port.mk which allows to check availability 
of new app version
for each port. It is based on fact that developers publish archives with latest 
version but archive
has fixed name.
Patch implements that idea is attached. It is a little bit ugly,
but it can say more than words above.

I have found al least 7 projects where developers publish such archives.
They are: redis, samba, gnu tar, webmin, ruby, videolan, mercurial.
Patches for database/redis and net/samba ports are attached.

And now it looks like:

$ make check-latest
===>  Checking files for redis-2.8.3
`/usr/ports/distfiles/redis-2.8.3.tar.gz' is up to date.
===>  Checking files for redis-2.8.3
`/usr/ports/distfiles/redis-stable.tar.gz' is up to date.
File redis-2.8.3.tar.gz has newer version

Sergey B.
Index: bsd.port.mk
===
RCS file: /cvs/ports/infrastructure/mk/bsd.port.mk,v
retrieving revision 1.1255
diff -u -p -r1.1255 bsd.port.mk
--- bsd.port.mk 9 Jan 2014 10:44:33 -   1.1255
+++ bsd.port.mk 19 Jan 2014 13:13:33 -
@@ -399,6 +399,9 @@ CONFIGURE_ENV += CCACHE_DIR=${CCACHE_DIR
 BUILD_DEPENDS += devel/ccache
 .endif
 
+DISTNAME_LATEST ?=
+MASTER_SITES_LATEST ?=
+
 ALL_FAKE_FLAGS=${MAKE_FLAGS:N-j[0-9]*} ${DESTDIRNAME}=${WRKINST} 
${FAKE_FLAGS}
 
 .if ${LOCALBASE:L} != "/usr/local"
@@ -2240,7 +2243,7 @@ _internal-fetch:
 .  if !empty(CHECKSUMFILES)
@${_MAKE} ${CHECKSUMFILES:S@^@${DISTDIR}/@}
 .  endif
-# End of FETCH
+# End of FETCH:
 
 
 _internal-checksum: _internal-fetch
@@ -3298,6 +3301,26 @@ _recurse-show-run-depends:
exit 1; \
fi; \
done
+
+check-latest: makesum
+.if !empty(DISTNAME_LATEST)
+   @${MAKE} fetch DISTFILES=${DISTNAME_LATEST}${EXTRACT_SUFX} \
+   MASTER_SITES=${MASTER_SITES_LATEST}
+   
+   @for c in ${_CIPHERS:U}; do \
+   fgrep ${DISTNAME} ${CHECKSUM_FILE} | \
+   fgrep $$c | awk '{ print $$NF }' | \
+   while read f; do \
+   cd ${DISTDIR} && cksum -b -q -a $$c 
${DISTNAME_LATEST}${EXTRACT_SUFX} | \
+   while read k; do \
+   if test $$f != $$k; then \
+ echo 1>&2 "File ${DISTFILES} has newer 
version"; \
+ exit; \
+   fi; \
+   done; \
+   done; \
+   done;
+.endif
 
 show-run-depends:
 .if !empty(_RUN_DEP)
Index: Makefile
===
RCS file: /cvs/ports/net/samba/Makefile,v
retrieving revision 1.189
diff -u -p -r1.189 Makefile
--- Makefile5 Dec 2013 13:08:50 -   1.189
+++ Makefile19 Jan 2014 13:15:29 -
@@ -16,6 +16,9 @@ SHARED_LIBS=  smbclient   3.0 \
netapi  1.0 \
wbclient1.0
 
+DISTNAME_LATEST=   samba-latest
+MASTER_SITES_LATEST=   https://www.samba.org/samba/ftp/
+
 CATEGORIES=net
 
 HOMEPAGE=  http://www.samba.org/
Index: Makefile
===
RCS file: /cvs/ports/databases/redis/Makefile,v
retrieving revision 1.61
diff -u -p -r1.61 Makefile
--- Makefile15 Jan 2014 07:08:13 -  1.61
+++ Makefile19 Jan 2014 13:16:02 -
@@ -7,6 +7,9 @@ HOMEPAGE =  http://redis.io/
 
 MAINTAINER =   David Coppa 
 
+DISTNAME_LATEST =   redis-stable
+MASTER_SITES_LATEST =  http://download.redis.io/
+
 # BSD
 PERMIT_PACKAGE_CDROM = Yes

Re: Request for Funding our Electricity

[Martin Schröder]

2014/1/19 Denis :
> I will be first in line to pay 2x of what I am paying now to host my
> domain on OpenBSD platform in Canada, knowing that it is looked after (or at
> least periodically checked) by core developers.

You want the developers to stop developing.

> ---
> 2. "Security reinforcement" of Sun Solaris.
>
> Oracle seems bleeding when it comes to get their OS over the security audit
> lines etc. If approached properly, nobody (even Oracle) should refuse paid
> help of a team of highly professional security experts, running their own
> OS for 20 years as portfolio :-)

You want the developers to stop developing OpenBSD.

Go away.

Re: OpenBSD funding status

[Dmitrij D. Czarkoff]

MJ said:
> Again, and I really need to highlight this: when the project comes to
> the position that it is asking for money or die, then the project is
> also in a requirement to provide financial transparency.

You appear to see no difference between donation and investment. OpenBSD
is asking for donations - financial support for things they already do
and are expected to do in future. They don't promise anything beyond the
stuff they normally deliver - sane Unix-like BSD-flavored operating
system, so there's quite enough of transparency: they did it for nearly
20 years and everyone may inspect the progress with per-commit
precision.

I would also note that it could possibly make sense for some corporate
sponsor to ask for some level of financial disclosure in case of some
big donation, but that's not the case here: the people who ask for it
are not the people who are going to donate anything. (Of course unless
you really believe that a person behind single-purpose account asking
trollish questions is really considering donating the money he doesn't
even quantify.)

-- 
Dmitrij D. Czarkoff

Re: Request for Funding our Electricity

[Marc Espie]

Let me be blunt about this: we already have quite enough on our plates
already.

I, for one, have a TODO list that reaches probably 10 years or more ahead.


Besides openssh, if you *do* use OpenBSD, contributing helps the project.

Speaking for myself, if you do appreciate:
- having binary packages that work
- having a parallel make that works
- having signed packages in the very near future
- having kde3 and kde4 built by default

then consider making a donation.

A *large* part of that work is made possible, and better, by the build 
machines at Theo.  I've been spending *a lot of time* working on parallel
builds, and builds on clusters, between make, and dpb.

You guys got to realize that   actual builds, on real hardware, find *a lot
of bugs*. In particular, missing dependencies in Makefiles and variations of
these.   These bugs are often *highly* timing-dependent.  Having fast machines
with slow disks, slow machines with fast disks, single processor oldies,
multi-processor new things, 32 bit machines, 64 bit machines... every single
new combination  will exercise the build in a different way, and find new
bugs.

(yes, there are bugs that are pmap dependent, so that if you reorganize the
way you handle memory, which happens "naturally" on some exotic arches, you're
ways more likely to meet them)

Consider this: we introduced parallel make around 2007. We're still finding
concurrency issues in parts of the tree.

Likewise, dpb is more than 3 years old.  It helped weed out some NFS issues.
It helped fix a very nasty race (and stupid) race condition in ld.so/ldconfig
(that one was a completely MI error). It still helps finding hidden 
dependencies... 3 YEARS.

Having "interesting" architectures helps finding memory allocation and 
alignment errors, which tend to be noticed WAAAYS earlier on sparc, but tend
to affect everything...


I've seen some disparaging comment about our quality process.

Well, speaking from a ports tree perspective, we have to shovel after
upstream... you have no idea about the smell.

Put things in perspective. There are about 20 gigabytes of *compressed
source code* in the ports tree.  We're doing our best to make it work.
But it's nowhere near perfect.   Outfits with ways more resources than us 
like redhat, debian, or google don't manage to do that.  How would we ?..

I could go on and on...

I'm mostly a developer. I already make the effort to pimp myself and go to
conferences to present my work.   I'm already donating a huge amount of
personal *time* to the project.   Now you guys want us to "justify" our
work some more and to spend more *time* doing paid consulting work besides
the project ?

Speaking for myself, do you realize how far behind I am on my todo-list
already ?  If I get more time that I want to spend on OpenBSD-related stuff,
where should my priority be ?..


as for asking for money, well, let's put that in the BSD spirit.

You guys do what you want. You're definitely NOT obligated to pay anything.

But if Theo has to shut down his rack, you're going to lose *big time* on
what's being done within the project.

"Gambling" that some other outfit may pick it up is just that, gambling.
I wouldn't put my money on it. For one thing, I don't know any other
obnoxious paranoid guy who would ride my back as often as Theo does, and
force me to write better code. :)

Re: OpenBSD funding status

[Desktop User OpenBSD]

Hi,








*1) Thehttps://openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html
is redirecting to
http://www.obtuse.com/ why? HTTPS should work
properly or it shouldn't be there.Word.Rather than contributing just some
outdated sang, you could have donesomething useful, like helping to
troubleshoot why the redirect was
happening.*

umm, the user gets a page where it can click to reach obtuse.com

Word. -> ? let me get access to the server running
openbsdfoundation.orgvia SSH and I will do it:
- generate a new SSL cert (the current one expired at 2009) and use
https://www.startssl.com/ to get it working without wrong SSL warning
(freely) in the webbrowsers
- configure apache

###




*3) Are there any subscriptions too or there are only one-time donations?I
would do a subscription if it were possible, but the amount has to be
entirely of my own choosing. Paypal certainly does offer recurring
payments, so there is no reason not to offer them to people willing to
support the project.*
with this, I meant the status of it, it's great to have subscribtion too,
we all know that, but what is the ratio between them? just a little info
about the currect status, is it hopeless or already passed the $2?

update: whops, I didn't read the previous mails, Theo already said this: "I
am not going to disclose the actual numbers here." - well, hokay.. I belive
in causality (cause<->effect) so there is a reason why he isn't doing that.

So let's get some info:

Suppose if a donator is on the donations page one time, it will stay there
(? I am wrong or not?):

The firs mail about funding came at 2013-12-17 18:20:48 -
http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=138730448307723

The second mail came at 2013-12-21 0:08:26 -
http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=138758456722860&w=2

http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/www/donations.html
-->>
current: Sat Jan 18 16:37:37 2014 UTC
old, before the mails: Thu Dec 12 18:03:28 2013 UTC

[user@localhost ~] grep '^' old-Donations\ to\ OpenBSD.html >
old.txt
[user@localhost ~] grep '^' current-Donations\ to\ OpenBSD.html >
current.txt
[user@localhost ~] wc -l old.txt
4779 old.txt
[user@localhost ~] wc -l current.txt
4773 current.txt
[user@localhost ~]

Hopefully there weren't just 6 people who donated, these are only the
people who wanted their names on the donations.html (?)

Just on ycombinator ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7069889 ) there
were 401 comments and 798 "ups" and 17 donated:

[user@localhost ~] lynx -source
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7069889| grep -i donated | wc -l
17
[user@localhost ~]

on nixcraft facebook page: ( https://www.facebook.com/nixcraft ) there were
209 "likes" and 307 shares, 1 person said in the comments "donated"

so we have (calculating with ex.: 20 CAD/person ) 6+17+1 = 24*20= 480 CAD
from the 2 ? - this is only public and not "trusty" data. :)




On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 8:43 AM, Christopher Ahrens wrote:

> MJ wrote:
>
>> On 18 Jan 2014, at 20.01, Desktop User OpenBSD <
>> openbsd.desktop.u...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Hello,
>>>
>>> I would love to subscribe to the monthly donation on:
>>>
>>> http://openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html
>>>
>>> but I need to ask, say a few things before:
>>>
>>> 1) The
>>> https://openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html
>>> is redirecting to http://www.obtuse.com/
>>> why? HTTPS should work properly or it shouldn't be there.
>>>
>>
>> Word.
>>
>
> Rather than contributing just some outdated sang, you could have done
> something useful, like helping to troubleshoot why the redirect was
> happening.
>
> Speaking of, both sites reside on the same IP, so its probably that the
> browser being used or a proxy in between doesn't play nicely with
> virtual hosts and tries to connect by raw IP and that obtuse.com comes
> first in httpd.conf for that IP address.
>
>
>>  2) What is the status of the funding? The CAD$(?) 20,000?
>>>
>>
>>  3) Are there any subscriptions too or there are only one-time donations?
>>>
>>>
>> I would do a subscription if it were possible, but the amount has to be
>> entirely of my own choosing. Paypal certainly does offer recurring
>> payments, so there is no reason not to offer them to people willing
>> to support the project.
>>
>>
> There *is* the possibility of recurring donations (either the first
> result of doing an internet search for 'OpenBSD recurring donations' or
> just following the link in the email you replied to, just after the
> sender asks about why it wasn't working for them.
>
>
>  4) Could Theo or anyone from the OpenBSD team contact any vendors, or has
>>> the project any bigger subscription donator already?
>>>
>>>
>> Again, and I really need to highlight this: when the project
>> comes to the position that it is asking for money or die, then
>> the project is also in a requirement to provi

Re: Request for Funding our Electricity

[Denis]

Hi OpenBSD team,

Sorry to bring more of those annoying "new" ideas, but I think that might
help. I will be brief :-)


---
1. "Branded" hosting by OpenBSD project

I will be first in line to pay 2x of what I am paying now to host my
domain on OpenBSD platform in Canada, knowing that it is looked after (or at
least periodically checked) by core developers.

---
2. "Security reinforcement" of Sun Solaris.

Oracle seems bleeding when it comes to get their OS over the security audit
lines etc. If approached properly, nobody (even Oracle) should refuse paid
help of a team of highly professional security experts, running their own
OS for 20 years as portfolio :-)

Sun Solaris is a good platform. If lucky and persistent, you may help it to
become better, get rich in the process and get enough money to pay OBSD
power bill :-) (And still hacking on big-endian platform in the process!)


-
3. Question

Is it possible that OpenBSD has finally "grown too big"? So it may be time to
turn it into more commercial enterprise? If it is the case - I am sincerely
glad for all of you, guys!

I think this "power situation" :-) may be a chance to all of us, OpenBSD
users, to see it rise and shine even more?

May be in 10 years there will be no Windows and every PC sold will proudly
carry Puffy logo on the side panel?

It would be a great world, I would even stop thinking about the retirement
then :-))

Please stay on top of your game, all of you - OpenBSD project members!
You are great smart people and you will get through this, stronger and better.

I do hope.

-- 
Sincerely yours,
Denis
=
The Bible for command line people.
http://www.read-and-think.org/kjv.html
=