Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
read fucking code. change fucking things. send some fucking diffs. get fucking yelled at. learn from your fucking mistakes. show some fucking passion. filter fucking misc@ and all this useless bleating into the toilet. none of us have time to spoon feed you in some “boot camp” there are two types of programmers. the self taught, and the hopeless. it is your job to turn yourself from the hopeless to the self taught. shut up and fucking hack. On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 23:50 Frank Beuth wrote: > On Wed, Jan 01, 2020 at 04:00:37AM +, e...@isdaq.com wrote: > >rather than the programmer being responsible for > >writing unsafe > >code we need to regulate what the programmer can do just like we need to > >regulate what the community can say, do, see, and think. > > where do I sign up for OpenBSD write-perfect-C-code programmer training > bootcamp? > >
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
On Wed, Jan 01, 2020 at 04:00:37AM +, e...@isdaq.com wrote: rather than the programmer being responsible for writing unsafe code we need to regulate what the programmer can do just like we need to regulate what the community can say, do, see, and think. where do I sign up for OpenBSD write-perfect-C-code programmer training bootcamp?
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
> I like where this thread is headed. > > To expand on this idea, maybe we should demonstrate how diversity and > inclusiveness can work in an operating system via language choices. > Why stop at TCL and LUA? Or even scripting languages in general. Why > not Go, Rust, Haskell and Scala too? > > Hear me out. We can set up a raffle system so that each winner can > write their winning tool in their language of choice. All the > parallel development will even solve the "multi year effort" problem > that was brought up by the original poster too. Nobody will mind > having another 8 or 9 languages in the base system, right? underrated response eww rust *cringe* i suspect 2020 will see a sharp increase in the woke brigade's attempts to place OpenBSD firmly underfoot of the diversity agenda. OpenBSD is one of the last extremely rare bastions of freedom that hasn't been coerced into marching in lockstep with the crowd of progressive madness. and don't think that it doesn't grind on the gears of those power hungry authoritarian narcissist pushers of the diversity drug who know better than you, who are better than you and who do better than you with every virtue signaling code of conduct and safe (space) language. you didn't think it was coincidence that c is demonized for not being "safe" did you? rather than the programmer being responsible for writing unsafe code we need to regulate what the programmer can do just like we need to regulate what the community can say, do, see, and think. accountability is oppression. it's not his fault he didn't do any error handling it's c's fault! At moment, I want my privacy to be protected. https://mytemp.email/
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
On 1/1/20 6:06 am, Christer Solskogen wrote: > On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 5:50 PM Marc Espie wrote: > >> We did retire vax, and we no longer have any platform without dynamic >> libraries. >> >> > OT but: out of sheer curiosity, why didn't VAX support dynamic libraries? > Did vax have an MMU? That'd make dynamic libraries tricky I'd imagine. -- Stuart Longland (aka Redhatter, VK4MSL) I haven't lost my mind... ...it's backed up on a tape somewhere.
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
On 1/1/20 3:13 am, danieljb...@icloud.com wrote: > I'm curious to know if there are any languages other than C and perl in > use in OpenBSD base. /bin/sh? *ducks* -- Stuart Longland (aka Redhatter, VK4MSL) I haven't lost my mind... ...it's backed up on a tape somewhere.
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
On 31/12/19 10:57 pm, Daniel Boyd wrote: > As one of the few remaining people out there who considers perl to be their > favorite language—starting to wonder if it’s just me and Larry Wall at this > point—I’d like to say that perl should stay in base on its merits, all the > perl-based system tools notwithstanding. I coded a lot in Perl before moving onto PHP and other languages… the only time I've done lots with Java was when I was at university. Perl was definitely my first taste of coding for a Unix-like operating system, having previously been solely exposed to variants of BASIC prior (QBASIC, CA Realizer BASIC, VisualBASIC). (Sorry Dijkstra, some of us *do* move beyond that language.) C++ and Haskell were other languages I learned at university. C did feature in my lectures, but I don't consider two slides describing the syntax of "if", "for", and various variable data types as being "instruction". Had I not learned C++ or dabbled with C prior to uni, I'd be stuffed in the subjects that needed C knowledge. Python I had dabbled with, but only started using recently because of my current workplace. They needed a metering product, and the choices of language offered to me were Python and PHP; being a cron-based service doing lots of serial port I/O, I chose Python. These days I do lots in that language. I'd have chosen Perl5 at the time if it were on the table, there is nothing wrong with it, it is stable and mature. Just that it is no longer "trendy". That said, choosing a language because of its popularity is totally the wrong approach. It's a question of whether it is suitable for the job. Notably, are there libraries of sufficient quality that you can utilise to get the job you're after done quickly. Python has pypi. Perl has had CPAN for ages. Perl 6 will be a major change though, more disruptive than the Python2→3 mess was. So we may be in for some "fun" in the near future. -- Stuart Longland (aka Redhatter, VK4MSL) I haven't lost my mind... ...it's backed up on a tape somewhere.
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
Steve Litt wrote: > On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 15:57:47 -0600 > Eric Zylstra wrote: > > > Proposing such a huge project without the ability to do it? I may > > have been a little disrespectful, but not the first one in the > > thread. And my point wasn’t to be disrespectful, but to point out > > that most proposals unaccompanied by code and that don’t solve > > obvious problems don’t seem to be received very well. Apologies if > > that wasn’t within bounds. > > What if the OP had instead of the suggestion submitted two or three Lua > scripts to replace two or three Perl scripts? Would you still have the > same opinion? We would definately have been impressed by his replacement of the existing pkg tools, which as written today are around 23,000 lines of perl. But should we really bother debating "what if"?
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 15:57:47 -0600 Eric Zylstra wrote: > Proposing such a huge project without the ability to do it? I may > have been a little disrespectful, but not the first one in the > thread. And my point wasn’t to be disrespectful, but to point out > that most proposals unaccompanied by code and that don’t solve > obvious problems don’t seem to be received very well. Apologies if > that wasn’t within bounds. What if the OP had instead of the suggestion submitted two or three Lua scripts to replace two or three Perl scripts? Would you still have the same opinion? SteveT Steve Litt December 2019 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
We could always rewrite the entire operating system in Pascal. FreePascal and
GNU Pascal are both GPL, so we’ll need to write a new compiler as well.
Shouldn’t take too long. Who wants to go register openpascal.org?
I’ll get a diff started
program OpenBSD;
begin
{ some code here }
end.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 31, 2019, at 5:18 PM, Theo de Raadt wrote:
>
> I guess I'm saying in these trying times it is considered disrespectful
> to dismiss completely labour-unsupported "ideas", obviously once we accept
> the Great Idea the OP will sit down and do all the required work to prove
> the cast after the fact.
>
> Eric Zylstra wrote:
>
>> Proposing such a huge project without the ability to do it? I may have been
>> a little disrespectful, but not the first one in the thread. And my point
>> wasn’t to be disrespectful, but to point out that most proposals
>> unaccompanied by code and that don’t solve obvious problems don’t seem to be
>> received very well. Apologies if that wasn’t within bounds.
>>
>> E
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
On Dec 31, 2019, at 3:46 PM, Theo de Raadt wrote:
>>>
>>> Isn't it a bit disrespectful to assume someone on misc@ is going to
>>> write such a large diff?
>>>
Maybe the OP could just go ahead and replace all the Perl code with Lua
and then ask for feedback from the other devs? That is the OpenBSD way,
right? If it really is a great idea, they’d all be really excited. In
any case, it would kill this thread.
EZ
Sent from my iPhone
>> On Dec 31, 2019, at 1:22 PM, Daniel Corbe wrote:
>
> I like where this thread is headed.
>
> To expand on this idea, maybe we should demonstrate how diversity and
> inclusiveness can work in an operating system via language choices.
> Why stop at TCL and LUA? Or even scripting languages in general. Why
> not Go, Rust, Haskell and Scala too?
>
> Hear me out. We can set up a raffle system so that each winner can
> write their winning tool in their language of choice. All the
> parallel development will even solve the "multi year effort" problem
> that was brought up by the original poster too. Nobody will mind
> having another 8 or 9 languages in the base system, right?
>
>>
>
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
I am still waiting to this diff myself. On Tuesday, December 31, 2019, Theo de Raadt wrote: > I guess I'm saying in these trying times it is considered disrespectful > to dismiss completely labour-unsupported "ideas", obviously once we accept > the Great Idea the OP will sit down and do all the required work to prove > the cast after the fact. > > Eric Zylstra wrote: > > > Proposing such a huge project without the ability to do it? I may have > been a little disrespectful, but not the first one in the thread. And my > point wasn’t to be disrespectful, but to point out that most proposals > unaccompanied by code and that don’t solve obvious problems don’t seem to > be received very well. Apologies if that wasn’t within bounds. > > > > E > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On Dec 31, 2019, at 3:46 PM, Theo de Raadt > wrote: > > > > > > Isn't it a bit disrespectful to assume someone on misc@ is going to > > > write such a large diff? > > > > > >> Maybe the OP could just go ahead and replace all the Perl code with > Lua and then ask for feedback from the other devs? That is the OpenBSD > way, right? If it really is a great idea, they’d all be really excited. > In any case, it would kill this thread. > > >> > > >> EZ > > >> > > >> > > >> Sent from my iPhone > > >> > > On Dec 31, 2019, at 1:22 PM, Daniel Corbe wrote: > > >>> > > >>> I like where this thread is headed. > > >>> > > >>> To expand on this idea, maybe we should demonstrate how diversity and > > >>> inclusiveness can work in an operating system via language choices. > > >>> Why stop at TCL and LUA? Or even scripting languages in general. > Why > > >>> not Go, Rust, Haskell and Scala too? > > >>> > > >>> Hear me out. We can set up a raffle system so that each winner can > > >>> write their winning tool in their language of choice. All the > > >>> parallel development will even solve the "multi year effort" problem > > >>> that was brought up by the original poster too. Nobody will mind > > >>> having another 8 or 9 languages in the base system, right? > > >>> > > >> > > > >
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
I guess I'm saying in these trying times it is considered disrespectful to dismiss completely labour-unsupported "ideas", obviously once we accept the Great Idea the OP will sit down and do all the required work to prove the cast after the fact. Eric Zylstra wrote: > Proposing such a huge project without the ability to do it? I may have been > a little disrespectful, but not the first one in the thread. And my point > wasn’t to be disrespectful, but to point out that most proposals > unaccompanied by code and that don’t solve obvious problems don’t seem to be > received very well. Apologies if that wasn’t within bounds. > > E > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Dec 31, 2019, at 3:46 PM, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > > > Isn't it a bit disrespectful to assume someone on misc@ is going to > > write such a large diff? > > > >> Maybe the OP could just go ahead and replace all the Perl code with Lua > >> and then ask for feedback from the other devs? That is the OpenBSD way, > >> right? If it really is a great idea, they’d all be really excited. In > >> any case, it would kill this thread. > >> > >> EZ > >> > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > On Dec 31, 2019, at 1:22 PM, Daniel Corbe wrote: > >>> > >>> I like where this thread is headed. > >>> > >>> To expand on this idea, maybe we should demonstrate how diversity and > >>> inclusiveness can work in an operating system via language choices. > >>> Why stop at TCL and LUA? Or even scripting languages in general. Why > >>> not Go, Rust, Haskell and Scala too? > >>> > >>> Hear me out. We can set up a raffle system so that each winner can > >>> write their winning tool in their language of choice. All the > >>> parallel development will even solve the "multi year effort" problem > >>> that was brought up by the original poster too. Nobody will mind > >>> having another 8 or 9 languages in the base system, right? > >>> > >> >
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
Proposing such a huge project without the ability to do it? I may have been a little disrespectful, but not the first one in the thread. And my point wasn’t to be disrespectful, but to point out that most proposals unaccompanied by code and that don’t solve obvious problems don’t seem to be received very well. Apologies if that wasn’t within bounds. E Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 31, 2019, at 3:46 PM, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > Isn't it a bit disrespectful to assume someone on misc@ is going to > write such a large diff? > >> Maybe the OP could just go ahead and replace all the Perl code with Lua and >> then ask for feedback from the other devs? That is the OpenBSD way, right? >> If it really is a great idea, they’d all be really excited. In any case, it >> would kill this thread. >> >> EZ >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> On Dec 31, 2019, at 1:22 PM, Daniel Corbe wrote: >>> >>> I like where this thread is headed. >>> >>> To expand on this idea, maybe we should demonstrate how diversity and >>> inclusiveness can work in an operating system via language choices. >>> Why stop at TCL and LUA? Or even scripting languages in general. Why >>> not Go, Rust, Haskell and Scala too? >>> >>> Hear me out. We can set up a raffle system so that each winner can >>> write their winning tool in their language of choice. All the >>> parallel development will even solve the "multi year effort" problem >>> that was brought up by the original poster too. Nobody will mind >>> having another 8 or 9 languages in the base system, right? >>> >>
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
Isn't it a bit disrespectful to assume someone on misc@ is going to write such a large diff? > Maybe the OP could just go ahead and replace all the Perl code with Lua and > then ask for feedback from the other devs? That is the OpenBSD way, right? > If it really is a great idea, they’d all be really excited. In any case, it > would kill this thread. > > EZ > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Dec 31, 2019, at 1:22 PM, Daniel Corbe wrote: > > > > I like where this thread is headed. > > > > To expand on this idea, maybe we should demonstrate how diversity and > > inclusiveness can work in an operating system via language choices. > > Why stop at TCL and LUA? Or even scripting languages in general. Why > > not Go, Rust, Haskell and Scala too? > > > > Hear me out. We can set up a raffle system so that each winner can > > write their winning tool in their language of choice. All the > > parallel development will even solve the "multi year effort" problem > > that was brought up by the original poster too. Nobody will mind > > having another 8 or 9 languages in the base system, right? > > >
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
Maybe the OP could just go ahead and replace all the Perl code with Lua and then ask for feedback from the other devs? That is the OpenBSD way, right? If it really is a great idea, they’d all be really excited. In any case, it would kill this thread. EZ Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 31, 2019, at 1:22 PM, Daniel Corbe wrote: > > I like where this thread is headed. > > To expand on this idea, maybe we should demonstrate how diversity and > inclusiveness can work in an operating system via language choices. > Why stop at TCL and LUA? Or even scripting languages in general. Why > not Go, Rust, Haskell and Scala too? > > Hear me out. We can set up a raffle system so that each winner can > write their winning tool in their language of choice. All the > parallel development will even solve the "multi year effort" problem > that was brought up by the original poster too. Nobody will mind > having another 8 or 9 languages in the base system, right? >
Re: perl popularity inside openbsd community? (Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl ...)
On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 4:30 PM Marc Chantreux wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 06:57:02AM -0600, Daniel Boyd wrote: > > As one of the few remaining people out there who considers perl to be > > their favorite language—starting to wonder if it’s just me and Larry > > Wall at this point—I’d like to say that perl should stay in base on > > its merits, all the perl-based system tools notwithstanding. > > one of the few remaining people ? is it so ? i really wonder ... > > Perl bashing is around the IT crowd for 20 decades and yet, when i > compare with other dynamic langages: > > * perl is the only one who gives me the conciseness and spirit of unix > tools combined to the power of a dynamic langage (the only close one > is ruby, the next level is raku, the others look like jokes to me). > so as openbsd people seems to be confortable with this unix culture, > i'm inclined to think that perl is popular here. > * CPAN is the best ecosystem to share code (metacpan is just awesome > compared to the other package sites, tooling is very good as well) > * the popularity of perl around me don't reflect the "perl is dead" moto > we heard since so many years (yes: there is a decline but it's in > flavor of compiled langages. the only one who switched to python > made this choice for money reason) > > both perl and openbsd popularities are underestimated just because > they still prefer mailing lists over stackoverflow (or other web > services who try to buzz with some charts) and don't care that much > about marketing. but still: i will be curious to know the perl > popularity in the openbsd community. Don't know if anyone cares because I'm not an OpenBSD dev (maybe some day I'll find something useful to hack on), but perl is definitely my go-to language. I agree with the "conciseness and spirit of unix tools", it is something that I have thought about but have never been able to formulate. Of course its age is showing in some areas but in my experience, those things are actually still worked on, and have been fixed without major incompatibilities (python3 anyone?). I remember a few years ago when I was briefly researching a replacement for perl for my personal projects and I tried out python3 and ruby in parallel and ruby was definitely the winner there. I have absolutely no idea why python even gained the popularity it has, it felt like a random hack, especially compared to ruby. The only thing I really miss from python is "yield".
Re: ttyC0 floods with error messages
"Raymond, David" wrote: > I get similar stuff on console 1 but not on the others on all my > OpenBSD machines. As I use X windows and have clean consoles 2-4 > available if necessary, I just ignore it. > > Dave Raymond > > > On 12/16/19, putridsou...@gmail.com wrote: > > The error does not seem to be a faulty mouse and I > > don't use a KVM switch anyway so it is not the source. > > Following on pervious reply, I tried on a new mouse. > > But was greeted with the same error: > > > > wsmouse0 detached > > ums0 detached > > uhidev0 detached > > uhidev0 at uhub0 port 4 configuration 1 interface 0 "PixArt USB Optical > > Mouse" rev 2.00/1.00 addr 2 > > uhidev0: iclass 3/1 > > ums0 at uhidev0: 3 buttons, Z dir > > wsmouse0 at ums0 mux 0 > > > > Unless I'm the unfortunate person destined to own all faulty > > mice in the world, I look forward to a solution. Is there > > anyone here who uses a desktop setup with a mouse, not greeted > > with these pesky errors. Are experts on here sure this is not > > a bug, or lack of proper driver. More info on the latter, this > > test consisted of Logitech M90 and Dell MS111-P mouse. > > > > > > > -- > David J. Raymond > david.raym...@nmt.edu > http://physics.nmt.edu/~raymond I get this also on my Intel NUC with the mouse connected via an Anker 7 port HUB extender. I was tidying up my cables yesterday and moved my mouse cable to one of the NUC's ports and I haven't been spammed since. The dmesg that was sent in looked like it had a USB HUB and then someone mentioned a KVM switch. So not sure if the mice or host don't like how they are connected.
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 5:50 PM Marc Espie wrote: > We did retire vax, and we no longer have any platform without dynamic > libraries. > > OT but: out of sheer curiosity, why didn't VAX support dynamic libraries?
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
On 12-31 14:02, Raul Miller wrote: > On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 1:32 PM wrote: > > I'm curious to know if there are any languages other than C and perl in > > use in OpenBSD base. > It's pretty easy to download the sources for base, and then: > tar zxf src.tar.gz > find . -type f -name '*.*' | sed 's/^.*\.//' | sort | uniq -c | sort > -n | tail -40 For what it may be worth: another way I use to see "what is available" (sometimes just to learn) is either: "man [1-9] intro" or go to http://man.openbsd.org, optionally choose a section, put "." (without quotes) in the search field, and click the "apropos" button. -- Please pray for our country(ies) and leaders, at this important time. More on this and other topics (a simple, non-JS site w/ no sales): http://lukecall.net (updated 2019-12-8)
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
I like where this thread is headed. To expand on this idea, maybe we should demonstrate how diversity and inclusiveness can work in an operating system via language choices. Why stop at TCL and LUA? Or even scripting languages in general. Why not Go, Rust, Haskell and Scala too? Hear me out. We can set up a raffle system so that each winner can write their winning tool in their language of choice. All the parallel development will even solve the "multi year effort" problem that was brought up by the original poster too. Nobody will mind having another 8 or 9 languages in the base system, right?
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 02:02:47PM -0500, Raul Miller wrote: > tar zxf src.tar.gz > find . -type f -name '*.*' | sed 's/^.*\.//' | sort | uniq -c | sort > -n | tail -40 That was fun, I learned about the -n option :) Thanks! wise@hup:/usr/src$ find . -type f -name '*.*' | sed 's/^.*\.//' | sort | uniq -c | sort -n | tail -40 | sort -nr 17030 c 14060 h 5208 cpp 4043 C 2978 t 1567 out 1516 in 1424 txt 1414 pl 1394 py 1213 3 1011 sh 968 pm 955 4 904 html 751 S 597 cc 545 out++ 542 png 534 rst 523 out_ascii 504 ok 474 exp 412 1 391 td 334 8 320 map 319 inc 315 gn 311 md5 283 texi 278 hpp 277 md 265 pod 242 out_lint 229 out_markdown 211 m4 207 m 191 def 179 f
Re: Turbo boost and performance degradation
This might be relevant: hw.setperf=0 See also: https://man.openbsd.org/cpu.4 -- Raul On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 1:57 PM Leo wrote: > > hi > > my russian friend has a trouble running OpenBSD > on his laptop, he reports that Turbo Boost is > not working (OpenBSD limits him to 1100 MHz), > he also reports that he owns /dev/drm0, but > everything is slow, he can't even play videos > in Firefox > > I attach his dmesg, Xorg.0.log and sysctl hw: > OpenBSD 6.6-current (GENERIC.MP) #576: Mon Dec 30 11:57:39 MST 2019 > dera...@amd64.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/amd64/compile/GENERIC.MP > real mem = 4096020480 (3906MB) > avail mem = 3959422976 (3776MB) > mpath0 at root > scsibus0 at mpath0: 256 targets > mainbus0 at root > bios0 at mainbus0: SMBIOS rev. 3.0 @ 0xfaf60 (44 entries) > bios0: vendor LENOVO version "6GCN24WW" date 11/13/2017 > bios0: LENOVO 81A4 > acpi0 at bios0: ACPI 5.0 > acpi0: sleep states S0 S3 S4 S5 > acpi0: tables DSDT FACP UEFI BDAT DBG2 DBGP HPET LPIT APIC MCFG NPKT PRAM > WSMT SSDT SSDT BATB SSDT SSDT SSDT SSDT MSDM SSDT FPDT BGRT WDAT UEFI > acpi0: wakeup devices LID0(S3) RP01(S4) PXSX(S4) RP02(S4) PXSX(S4) RP03(S4) > PXSX(S4) RP04(S4) PXSX(S4) RP05(S4) PXSX(S4) RP06(S4) PXSX(S4) XHC_(S4) > XDCI(S4) HDAS(S3) > acpitimer0 at acpi0: 3579545 Hz, 24 bits > acpihpet0 at acpi0: 1920 Hz > acpimadt0 at acpi0 addr 0xfee0: PC-AT compat > cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor) > cpu0: Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU N3350 @ 1.10GHz, 1097.97 MHz, 06-5c-09 > cpu0: > FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,SDBG,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,MOVBE,POPCNT,DEADLINE,AES,XSAVE,RDRAND,NXE,PAGE1GB,RDTSCP,LONG,LAHF,3DNOWP,PERF,ITSC,FSGSBASE,TSC_ADJUST,SMEP,ERMS,MPX,RDSEED,SMAP,CLFLUSHOPT,PT,SHA,MD_CLEAR,IBRS,IBPB,STIBP,SENSOR,ARAT,XSAVEOPT,XSAVEC,XGETBV1,XSAVES,MELTDOWN > cpu0: 1MB 64b/line 16-way L2 cache > cpu0: smt 0, core 0, package 0 > mtrr: Pentium Pro MTRR support, 10 var ranges, 88 fixed ranges > cpu0: apic clock running at 19MHz > cpu0: mwait min=64, max=64, C-substates=0.2.0.2.4.2.1.1, IBE > cpu1 at mainbus0: apid 4 (application processor) > cpu1: Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU N3350 @ 1.10GHz, 1097.49 MHz, 06-5c-09 > cpu1: > FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,SDBG,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,MOVBE,POPCNT,DEADLINE,AES,XSAVE,RDRAND,NXE,PAGE1GB,RDTSCP,LONG,LAHF,3DNOWP,PERF,ITSC,FSGSBASE,TSC_ADJUST,SMEP,ERMS,MPX,RDSEED,SMAP,CLFLUSHOPT,PT,SHA,MD_CLEAR,IBRS,IBPB,STIBP,SENSOR,ARAT,XSAVEOPT,XSAVEC,XGETBV1,XSAVES,MELTDOWN > cpu1: 1MB 64b/line 16-way L2 cache > cpu1: smt 0, core 2, package 0 > ioapic0 at mainbus0: apid 1 pa 0xfec0, version 20, 120 pins > acpimcfg0 at acpi0 > acpimcfg0: addr 0xe000, bus 0-63 > acpiprt0 at acpi0: bus 0 (PCI0) > acpiprt1 at acpi0: bus 1 (RP01) > acpiprt2 at acpi0: bus 2 (RP02) > acpiprt3 at acpi0: bus -1 (RP03) > acpiprt4 at acpi0: bus -1 (RP04) > acpiprt5 at acpi0: bus -1 (RP05) > acpiprt6 at acpi0: bus -1 (RP06) > acpiec0 at acpi0 > acpicpu0 at acpi0: C3(10@150 mwait.1@0x60), C2(10@50 mwait.1@0x21), C1(1000@1 > mwait.1@0x1), PSS > acpicpu1 at acpi0: C3(10@150 mwait.1@0x60), C2(10@50 mwait.1@0x21), C1(1000@1 > mwait.1@0x1), PSS > acpipwrres0 at acpi0: FN00, resource for FAN0 > acpitz0 at acpi0: critical temperature is 100 degC > aplgpio0 at acpi0: GPO0 uid 1 addr 0xd0c5/0x76c irq 14, 78 pins > acpipci0 at acpi0 PCI0: 0x 0x0011 0x0001 > acpibat0 at acpi0: BAT1 model "BASE-BAT" serial 12345678 type LiP oem "LENOVO" > "VPC2004" at acpi0 not configured > acpibtn0 at acpi0: LID0 > "SYNA2B38" at acpi0 not configured > acpiac0 at acpi0: AC unit offline > acpibtn1 at acpi0: PWRB > acpicmos0 at acpi0 > aplgpio1 at acpi0: GPO1 uid 2 addr 0xd0c4/0x764 irq 14, 77 pins > aplgpio2 at acpi0: GPO2 uid 3 addr 0xd0c7/0x674 irq 14, 47 pins > aplgpio3 at acpi0: GPO3 uid 4 addr 0xd0c0/0x654 irq 14, 43 pins > "INT33A1" at acpi0 not configured > "INT3400" at acpi0 not configured > "INT3406" at acpi0 not configured > "INT3403" at acpi0 not configured > "INT3403" at acpi0 not configured > "PNP0C0B" at acpi0 not configured > acpivideo0 at acpi0: GFX0 > acpivout0 at acpivideo0: DD1F > cpu0: Enhanced SpeedStep 1097 MHz: speeds: 1101, 1100, 1000, 900, 800 MHz > pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0 > pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 "Intel Apollo Lake Host" rev 0x0b > vendor "Intel", unknown product 0x5a8c (class DASP subclass miscellaneous, > rev 0x0b) at pci0 dev 0 function 1 not configured > inteldrm0 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 "Intel HD Graphics 500" rev 0x0b > drm0 at inteldrm0 > inteldrm0: msi > azalia0 at pci0 dev 14 function 0 "Intel Apollo Lake HD Audio" rev 0x0b: msi > azalia0: codecs: Realtek ALC269, Intel/0x280a, using Realtek ALC269 > audio0 at azalia0 > "Intel Apollo Lake TXE" rev 0x0b at pci0
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 1:32 PM wrote: > I'm curious to know if there are any languages other than C and perl in > use in OpenBSD base. It's pretty easy to download the sources for base, and then: tar zxf src.tar.gz find . -type f -name '*.*' | sed 's/^.*\.//' | sort | uniq -c | sort -n | tail -40 But, anyways: yes there are (and not just cpp and m4 and shell). And, I can see why Theo seems to radiate such impatience at the inanity of, for example, this thread. -- Raul
Turbo boost and performance degradation
hi my russian friend has a trouble running OpenBSD on his laptop, he reports that Turbo Boost is not working (OpenBSD limits him to 1100 MHz), he also reports that he owns /dev/drm0, but everything is slow, he can't even play videos in Firefox I attach his dmesg, Xorg.0.log and sysctl hw: OpenBSD 6.6-current (GENERIC.MP) #576: Mon Dec 30 11:57:39 MST 2019 dera...@amd64.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/amd64/compile/GENERIC.MP real mem = 4096020480 (3906MB) avail mem = 3959422976 (3776MB) mpath0 at root scsibus0 at mpath0: 256 targets mainbus0 at root bios0 at mainbus0: SMBIOS rev. 3.0 @ 0xfaf60 (44 entries) bios0: vendor LENOVO version "6GCN24WW" date 11/13/2017 bios0: LENOVO 81A4 acpi0 at bios0: ACPI 5.0 acpi0: sleep states S0 S3 S4 S5 acpi0: tables DSDT FACP UEFI BDAT DBG2 DBGP HPET LPIT APIC MCFG NPKT PRAM WSMT SSDT SSDT BATB SSDT SSDT SSDT SSDT MSDM SSDT FPDT BGRT WDAT UEFI acpi0: wakeup devices LID0(S3) RP01(S4) PXSX(S4) RP02(S4) PXSX(S4) RP03(S4) PXSX(S4) RP04(S4) PXSX(S4) RP05(S4) PXSX(S4) RP06(S4) PXSX(S4) XHC_(S4) XDCI(S4) HDAS(S3) acpitimer0 at acpi0: 3579545 Hz, 24 bits acpihpet0 at acpi0: 1920 Hz acpimadt0 at acpi0 addr 0xfee0: PC-AT compat cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor) cpu0: Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU N3350 @ 1.10GHz, 1097.97 MHz, 06-5c-09 cpu0: FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,SDBG,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,MOVBE,POPCNT,DEADLINE,AES,XSAVE,RDRAND,NXE,PAGE1GB,RDTSCP,LONG,LAHF,3DNOWP,PERF,ITSC,FSGSBASE,TSC_ADJUST,SMEP,ERMS,MPX,RDSEED,SMAP,CLFLUSHOPT,PT,SHA,MD_CLEAR,IBRS,IBPB,STIBP,SENSOR,ARAT,XSAVEOPT,XSAVEC,XGETBV1,XSAVES,MELTDOWN cpu0: 1MB 64b/line 16-way L2 cache cpu0: smt 0, core 0, package 0 mtrr: Pentium Pro MTRR support, 10 var ranges, 88 fixed ranges cpu0: apic clock running at 19MHz cpu0: mwait min=64, max=64, C-substates=0.2.0.2.4.2.1.1, IBE cpu1 at mainbus0: apid 4 (application processor) cpu1: Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU N3350 @ 1.10GHz, 1097.49 MHz, 06-5c-09 cpu1: FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,SDBG,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,MOVBE,POPCNT,DEADLINE,AES,XSAVE,RDRAND,NXE,PAGE1GB,RDTSCP,LONG,LAHF,3DNOWP,PERF,ITSC,FSGSBASE,TSC_ADJUST,SMEP,ERMS,MPX,RDSEED,SMAP,CLFLUSHOPT,PT,SHA,MD_CLEAR,IBRS,IBPB,STIBP,SENSOR,ARAT,XSAVEOPT,XSAVEC,XGETBV1,XSAVES,MELTDOWN cpu1: 1MB 64b/line 16-way L2 cache cpu1: smt 0, core 2, package 0 ioapic0 at mainbus0: apid 1 pa 0xfec0, version 20, 120 pins acpimcfg0 at acpi0 acpimcfg0: addr 0xe000, bus 0-63 acpiprt0 at acpi0: bus 0 (PCI0) acpiprt1 at acpi0: bus 1 (RP01) acpiprt2 at acpi0: bus 2 (RP02) acpiprt3 at acpi0: bus -1 (RP03) acpiprt4 at acpi0: bus -1 (RP04) acpiprt5 at acpi0: bus -1 (RP05) acpiprt6 at acpi0: bus -1 (RP06) acpiec0 at acpi0 acpicpu0 at acpi0: C3(10@150 mwait.1@0x60), C2(10@50 mwait.1@0x21), C1(1000@1 mwait.1@0x1), PSS acpicpu1 at acpi0: C3(10@150 mwait.1@0x60), C2(10@50 mwait.1@0x21), C1(1000@1 mwait.1@0x1), PSS acpipwrres0 at acpi0: FN00, resource for FAN0 acpitz0 at acpi0: critical temperature is 100 degC aplgpio0 at acpi0: GPO0 uid 1 addr 0xd0c5/0x76c irq 14, 78 pins acpipci0 at acpi0 PCI0: 0x 0x0011 0x0001 acpibat0 at acpi0: BAT1 model "BASE-BAT" serial 12345678 type LiP oem "LENOVO" "VPC2004" at acpi0 not configured acpibtn0 at acpi0: LID0 "SYNA2B38" at acpi0 not configured acpiac0 at acpi0: AC unit offline acpibtn1 at acpi0: PWRB acpicmos0 at acpi0 aplgpio1 at acpi0: GPO1 uid 2 addr 0xd0c4/0x764 irq 14, 77 pins aplgpio2 at acpi0: GPO2 uid 3 addr 0xd0c7/0x674 irq 14, 47 pins aplgpio3 at acpi0: GPO3 uid 4 addr 0xd0c0/0x654 irq 14, 43 pins "INT33A1" at acpi0 not configured "INT3400" at acpi0 not configured "INT3406" at acpi0 not configured "INT3403" at acpi0 not configured "INT3403" at acpi0 not configured "PNP0C0B" at acpi0 not configured acpivideo0 at acpi0: GFX0 acpivout0 at acpivideo0: DD1F cpu0: Enhanced SpeedStep 1097 MHz: speeds: 1101, 1100, 1000, 900, 800 MHz pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0 pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 "Intel Apollo Lake Host" rev 0x0b vendor "Intel", unknown product 0x5a8c (class DASP subclass miscellaneous, rev 0x0b) at pci0 dev 0 function 1 not configured inteldrm0 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 "Intel HD Graphics 500" rev 0x0b drm0 at inteldrm0 inteldrm0: msi azalia0 at pci0 dev 14 function 0 "Intel Apollo Lake HD Audio" rev 0x0b: msi azalia0: codecs: Realtek ALC269, Intel/0x280a, using Realtek ALC269 audio0 at azalia0 "Intel Apollo Lake TXE" rev 0x0b at pci0 dev 15 function 0 not configured ahci0 at pci0 dev 18 function 0 "Intel Apollo Lake AHCI" rev 0x0b: msi, AHCI 1.3.1 ahci0: PHY offline on port 0 ahci0: PHY offline on port 1 scsibus1 at ahci0: 32 targets ppb0 at pci0 dev 20 function 0 "Intel Apollo Lake PCIE" rev 0xfb: msi pci1 at ppb0 bus 1 rtsx0 at pci1 dev 0
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
Certainly, there are situations where perl isn't the best choice. And in those unfortunate situations, other languages may be considered, however begrudgingly. :) I'm curious to know if there are any languages other than C and perl in use in OpenBSD base. On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 05:39:03PM +0100, Marc Espie wrote: > On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 06:57:02AM -0600, Daniel Boyd wrote: > > As one of the few remaining people out there who considers perl to be their > > favorite language—starting to wonder if it’s just me and Larry Wall at this > > point—I’d like to say that perl should stay in base on its merits, all the > > perl-based system tools notwithstanding. > > You're definitely not alone, though I also enjoy other languages where perl > falters (long startup time and complexity of linking with libraries mean > I do C and C++ a lot as well) >
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019, Theo de Raadt wrote: > Roderick wrote: >> I am curious to know why tcl, my fovourite scripting lanuage, would >> not be a candidate. [...] > Wow, it's a lot like you can't read. It is more an academic question. I wanted to know more objective critera than personal preferences when selecting a scripting language. That perl is prefered, is understandable: it is one of the oldest and very early on BSD. Tcl is also as old and evolved, but its existence is today almost ignored. And I really do not understand what new brings python that is today so in fashion, the idea that indentation has a semantic does not make me entusiastic. Rodrigo
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
Raul Miller wrote: > On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 11:46 AM Roderick wrote: > > I am curious to know why tcl, my fovourite scripting lanuage, would > > not be a candidate. > > If OpenLuaBSD would be a welcome fork, I don't see why OpenTCLBSD > would be any worse. > > Doesn't mean anyone wants to write it. You are doing it in the wrong order. First, you need to pay the domainname cabal for a domainname Then you setup a wiki and relevant mailing lists That way, it doesn't need to get discussed here.
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 11:46 AM Roderick wrote: > I am curious to know why tcl, my fovourite scripting lanuage, would > not be a candidate. If OpenLuaBSD would be a welcome fork, I don't see why OpenTCLBSD would be any worse. Doesn't mean anyone wants to write it. -- Raul
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
Roderick wrote: > > > On Tue, 31 Dec 2019, Marc Espie wrote: > > > lua would definitely NOT be appropriate for that. The only half valid > > candidate would be python. > > I am curious to know why tcl, my fovourite scripting lanuage, would > not be a candidate. > > I suspect, tcl is being underestimated, and the decission for one > or other scripting language is mostly guided by personal prefferences > and fashion (today python). Wow, it's a lot like you can't read. There are no candidates.
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 10:45:34PM +1000, Stuart Longland wrote: > On 31/12/19 3:54 pm, Marc Espie wrote: > > Contrary to what some people might think, the tools in question won't be > > easier to understand and manage if written in another language. > > I'm of the opinion that "if it ain't broken, don't fix it". What is > "broken" about Perl that we're trying to fix with a replacement (whether > it be Lua, Python, NodeJS, Ruby, PHP, TCL, alb, BASIC … or something else)? It used to be there was no choice at all. Back then, perl was already in the base system and running on everything *including vax*. Python (for instance) not so much. The standard build definitely requires shared libraries. We did retire vax, and we no longer have any platform without dynamic libraries. As for the license, python's license appears fairly similar to Perl's artistic license. I would worry a bit about the strong terms in 6. This License Agreement will automatically terminate upon a material breach of its terms and conditions. for which no equivalent is visible in Perl's license. You got to remember though that OpenBSD initially had a lot of stuff that was not BSD licensed (the full toolchain!), but used for building (we got rid of the fp emulation code fairly early on). Though that has changed on some platforms (hurray for clang pre-apache license), I suspect there might be some reticence to importing more stuff that's not strictly under a BSD/MIT license.
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019, Marc Espie wrote: > lua would definitely NOT be appropriate for that. The only half valid > candidate would be python. I am curious to know why tcl, my fovourite scripting lanuage, would not be a candidate. I suspect, tcl is being underestimated, and the decission for one or other scripting language is mostly guided by personal prefferences and fashion (today python). Rodrigo
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 06:57:02AM -0600, Daniel Boyd wrote: > As one of the few remaining people out there who considers perl to be their > favorite language—starting to wonder if it’s just me and Larry Wall at this > point—I’d like to say that perl should stay in base on its merits, all the > perl-based system tools notwithstanding. You're definitely not alone, though I also enjoy other languages where perl falters (long startup time and complexity of linking with libraries mean I do C and C++ a lot as well)
Re: ownership of mailboxes with dovecot
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019, Eike Lantzsch wrote: > system user XOR virtual user > That's what I have to setup now. Correct? As said, I had UW imap serving system user mailboxes, and now cyrus imap serving virtual users. You have to decide. With dovecot I have no other experience than compiling it. I think, I would preffer now UW Imap, because I have only few and trusted users, and because it is very simple, no much configuration and mantainance needed: it just publishes the mailboxes with imap, accessed with the system user/password. I installed cyrus imap because I wanted some integration with cyrus sasl and ldap that I also use for authentication in sendmail. Now I think it is for my purposes an exageration. Indexing may be nice, but there is not a lot of emails. I do not know the state of UW imap today and if it is considered secure by OpenBSD people. I would also be glad to hear oppinions. Rodrigo
perl popularity inside openbsd community? (Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl ...)
On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 06:57:02AM -0600, Daniel Boyd wrote: > As one of the few remaining people out there who considers perl to be > their favorite language—starting to wonder if it’s just me and Larry > Wall at this point—I’d like to say that perl should stay in base on > its merits, all the perl-based system tools notwithstanding. one of the few remaining people ? is it so ? i really wonder ... Perl bashing is around the IT crowd for 20 decades and yet, when i compare with other dynamic langages: * perl is the only one who gives me the conciseness and spirit of unix tools combined to the power of a dynamic langage (the only close one is ruby, the next level is raku, the others look like jokes to me). so as openbsd people seems to be confortable with this unix culture, i'm inclined to think that perl is popular here. * CPAN is the best ecosystem to share code (metacpan is just awesome compared to the other package sites, tooling is very good as well) * the popularity of perl around me don't reflect the "perl is dead" moto we heard since so many years (yes: there is a decline but it's in flavor of compiled langages. the only one who switched to python made this choice for money reason) both perl and openbsd popularities are underestimated just because they still prefer mailing lists over stackoverflow (or other web services who try to buzz with some charts) and don't care that much about marketing. but still: i will be curious to know the perl popularity in the openbsd community. regards. marc
Re: openiked.org down?
yeah, it's down... ; <<>> DiG 9.4.2-P2 <<>> openiked.org ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 58691 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;openiked.org. IN A ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: openiked.org. 2496IN SOA a.ns.bsws.de. noc.bsws.de. 1577745128 1 3600 604800 86400 ;; Query time: 0 msec ;; SERVER: 10.0.5.5#53(10.0.5.5) ;; WHEN: Tue Dec 31 15:14:22 2019 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 82 On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 03:08:47PM +0100, lu hu wrote: > Hello, > > did anyone noticed that the https://openiked.org/ is down? > > NO "A" record is associated with the domain? > > Thanks for any infos. >
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
Perl is my favorite language, too. Perl can be gnarly but I love it. I have zero experience with Lua so I can’t judge it but I’d like Perl to stay in Base. On Tuesday, December 31, 2019, Daniel Boyd wrote: > As one of the few remaining people out there who considers perl to be > their favorite language—starting to wonder if it’s just me and Larry Wall > at this point—I’d like to say that perl should stay in base on its merits, > all the perl-based system tools notwithstanding. > > I decided learn perl because of OpenBSD back in the day. I was a primarily > a java programmer (to be clear: not out of any affinity for Java) and had > decided to use OpenBSD as my workstation OS. I quickly discovered that the > Java development tools I used (netbeans, eclipse, etc.) weren’t all that > robust in OpenBSD (old builds, crashy). So, I figured, OpenBSD users must > not be java programmers and I set out figuring out what language they did > use... by looking to see which languages were in base. > > Fast forward like 15 years and I’m now a perl/vim guy (a far cry from > java/NetBeans!) and I couldn’t be happier. While I tolerated java, I > actually really like perl. And the more I learn of it, the better i like > it. I think a lot of people just haven’t really taken the time to learn > perl’s subtleties and true perlish coding conventions. It’s really > wonderful once you know it well. > > Ok— rant over. Carry on. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Dec 31, 2019, at 12:11 AM, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > > > Marc Espie wrote: > > > >> Removing perl from base would be very painful. > >> > >> I don't fancy rewriting all the perl tools in something else > (specifically, > >> most of the ports and package infrastructure) > >> > >> lua would definitely NOT be appropriate for that. The only half valid > >> candidate would be python. > >> > >> Contrary to what some people might think, the tools in question won't be > >> easier to understand and manage if written in another language. > >> > > > > Contrary to what you think, the original proposal didn't come out of > > a process called thinking. > > > >
Creating virtual users on vsftpd - OpenBSD
Hello everyone. I'm going to use vsftpd (on OpenBSD 6.6) on a production server. However, I've failed creating virtual users for that. There're many tutorials online (by using PAM) but it seems that OpenBSD doesn't support PAM. Any idea, any suggestions would be much appreciated! Thank you and happy new year!
Re: ownership of mailboxes with dovecot
On 2019-12-31 14:10, Kevin Chadwick wrote: > I believe the mail boxes are chrooted into too. Actually that may be incorrect with the chroot being more broad than that as they should be owned by root otherwise!
Re: ownership of mailboxes with dovecot
On Tuesday, 31 December 2019 10:25:30 -03 Jona Joachim wrote: > On 2019-12-31, Roderick wrote: > > On Tue, 31 Dec 2019, Eike Lantzsch wrote: > >> I'm using an IMAP mailserver with dovecot which is entirely limited to my > >> local network. > >> It pulls my external mail with fetchmail. [...] > >> user username1@foodomain.local.fantasea mailbox is owned by vmail [...] > >> Obviously dovecot has other ideas about security than OpenBSD. > > > > Is dovecot or fetchmail who create the mailboxes?! > > > >> Can I remedy this (then: how?) or should I go on to ignore this warning? > > > > Perhaps configuring fetchmail? > > Maybe the best approach would be to configure fetchmail to forward mail > to the Dovecot LDA, for example over LMTP. This way only Dovecot ever > writes to the mailbox and you have the added benefit of using additional > features such as sieve and indexed mailboxes. > > Best regards, > Jona This didn't occur to me. Another sign that I didn't get the whole picture. Will try to set this up after I got my system users versa virtual users approach correctly. Enfin it *was* useful to mention fetchmail. Thank you Jona! -- Eike Lantzsch ZP6CGE
Re: ownership of mailboxes with dovecot
On 2019-12-31 13:13, Eike Lantzsch wrote: > I regret having mentioned fetchmail. > It happens as part of setting up dovecot with virtual users. Do you need virtual users. I saw all the guides recommending this and wrote scripts to manage system users instead. Every box is owned by the login user and I believe the mail boxes are chrooted into too. Also means it inherited the system bcrypt login protection and it's maintenance for years. I don't have that many users though. Noone seems to discuss what the limits would actually be?
openiked.org down?
Hello, did anyone noticed that the https://openiked.org/ is down? NO "A" record is associated with the domain? Thanks for any infos.
Re: ownership of mailboxes with dovecot
On Tuesday, 31 December 2019 10:36:38 -03 Roderick wrote: > On Tue, 31 Dec 2019, Eike Lantzsch wrote: > > > Is dovecot or fetchmail who create the mailboxes?! > > > > fetchmail doesn't configure anything, especially not mailboxes. > > I regret having mentioned fetchmail. > > It happens as part of setting up dovecot with virtual users. > > If they are virtual users, why are they also users in the system?! Good point! Shows me that I didn't understand the whole point of virtual users against users on the system correctly. system user XOR virtual user That's what I have to setup now. Correct? > > BTW, I installed many years ago UW Imap on FreeBSD, contained > today in alpine mail's source. It served out of the box the mailboxes > of the system users with imap. No configuration needed. > > Rod. Thank you Rod! -- Eike Lantzsch ZP6CGE
Re: ownership of mailboxes with dovecot
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019, Eike Lantzsch wrote: > > Is dovecot or fetchmail who create the mailboxes?! > fetchmail doesn't configure anything, especially not mailboxes. > I regret having mentioned fetchmail. > It happens as part of setting up dovecot with virtual users. If they are virtual users, why are they also users in the system?! BTW, I installed many years ago UW Imap on FreeBSD, contained today in alpine mail's source. It served out of the box the mailboxes of the system users with imap. No configuration needed. Rod.
Re: ownership of mailboxes with dovecot
On 2019-12-31, Roderick wrote: > > On Tue, 31 Dec 2019, Eike Lantzsch wrote: > >> I'm using an IMAP mailserver with dovecot which is entirely limited to my >> local network. >> It pulls my external mail with fetchmail. [...] >> user username1@foodomain.local.fantasea mailbox is owned by vmail [...] >> Obviously dovecot has other ideas about security than OpenBSD. > > Is dovecot or fetchmail who create the mailboxes?! > >> Can I remedy this (then: how?) or should I go on to ignore this warning? > > Perhaps configuring fetchmail? Maybe the best approach would be to configure fetchmail to forward mail to the Dovecot LDA, for example over LMTP. This way only Dovecot ever writes to the mailbox and you have the added benefit of using additional features such as sieve and indexed mailboxes. Best regards, Jona
Re: ownership of mailboxes with dovecot
On Tuesday, 31 December 2019 09:47:03 -03 Roderick wrote: > On Tue, 31 Dec 2019, Eike Lantzsch wrote: > > I'm using an IMAP mailserver with dovecot which is entirely limited to my > > local network. > > It pulls my external mail with fetchmail. [...] > > user username1@foodomain.local.fantasea mailbox is owned by vmail [...] > > Obviously dovecot has other ideas about security than OpenBSD. > > Is dovecot or fetchmail who create the mailboxes?! fetchmail doesn't configure anything, especially not mailboxes. I regret having mentioned fetchmail. It happens as part of setting up dovecot with virtual users. > > > Can I remedy this (then: how?) or should I go on to ignore this warning? > > Perhaps configuring fetchmail? > > Rod. Here is an example of setting up dovecot: https://www.tumfatig.net/20150620/opensmtpd-and-dovecot-on-openbsd-5-7/ Of course this has to be adopted with care (5.7. hint hint) Thanks for considering my quest -- Eike Lantzsch ZP6CGE
Re: The OpenBSD talk at 36c3
> seem to even know that stable exists. My original thought was that there were mal \ > intent. I think not now, unless it has been shaped by criticism. It is a highly \ no i think your first thought was right. there's clearly malice he just lacks the maturity to be forthright and honest about it and instead chose to be passive-aggressive with his deceptive and snide remarks, childish tshirt and denigrating presentation. this entire pretense from the moment he got butthurt over someone on irc for favoring OpenBSD to his URL and website has been derogatory > as possible. He could lose a bit of arrogance and is wrong in a few places. I don't \ > actually even agree with his security quotes entirely as with everything it depends \ > on context like mitigations cannot be taken alone, without the context of other \ > mitigations, older hardware etc.. you're right about this. he misses the forest for the trees by almost entirely disregarding the context of OpenBSD as an operating system > Perhaps I missed the point but attacks not being currently used is a false metric as \ > they could still be used, if allowed. I think he has done quite well considering and \ that part was really stupid. he must also think that because python2 has reached its EOL you no longer have to worry about bugs that affect 2.x codebases jajaja > clearly has some knowledge around attack vectors. His biggest mistake is he should be \ > asking questions considering his limited knowledge of OpenBSD and not making arrogant \ > statements. It was an interesting talk atleast and re-evaluation is almost always \ if he was coming from a place of sincerity than you'd expect him to have at least reached out on the mailing list but its clear his intentions were entirely motivated by malice from the start > issue. If so, then that is a naive view. More likely, he is just in transition to \ OpenBSD :-) i wouldn't be surprised to know he is a kali user At moment, I want my privacy to be protected. https://mytemp.email/
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
As one of the few remaining people out there who considers perl to be their favorite language—starting to wonder if it’s just me and Larry Wall at this point—I’d like to say that perl should stay in base on its merits, all the perl-based system tools notwithstanding. I decided learn perl because of OpenBSD back in the day. I was a primarily a java programmer (to be clear: not out of any affinity for Java) and had decided to use OpenBSD as my workstation OS. I quickly discovered that the Java development tools I used (netbeans, eclipse, etc.) weren’t all that robust in OpenBSD (old builds, crashy). So, I figured, OpenBSD users must not be java programmers and I set out figuring out what language they did use... by looking to see which languages were in base. Fast forward like 15 years and I’m now a perl/vim guy (a far cry from java/NetBeans!) and I couldn’t be happier. While I tolerated java, I actually really like perl. And the more I learn of it, the better i like it. I think a lot of people just haven’t really taken the time to learn perl’s subtleties and true perlish coding conventions. It’s really wonderful once you know it well. Ok— rant over. Carry on. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 31, 2019, at 12:11 AM, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > Marc Espie wrote: > >> Removing perl from base would be very painful. >> >> I don't fancy rewriting all the perl tools in something else (specifically, >> most of the ports and package infrastructure) >> >> lua would definitely NOT be appropriate for that. The only half valid >> candidate would be python. >> >> Contrary to what some people might think, the tools in question won't be >> easier to understand and manage if written in another language. >> > > Contrary to what you think, the original proposal didn't come out of > a process called thinking. >
Re: ownership of mailboxes with dovecot
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019, Eike Lantzsch wrote: > I'm using an IMAP mailserver with dovecot which is entirely limited to my > local network. > It pulls my external mail with fetchmail. [...] > user username1@foodomain.local.fantasea mailbox is owned by vmail [...] > Obviously dovecot has other ideas about security than OpenBSD. Is dovecot or fetchmail who create the mailboxes?! > Can I remedy this (then: how?) or should I go on to ignore this warning? Perhaps configuring fetchmail? Rod.
Re: Suggestion: Replace Perl with Lua in the OpenBSD Base System
On 31/12/19 3:54 pm, Marc Espie wrote: > Contrary to what some people might think, the tools in question won't be > easier to understand and manage if written in another language. I'm of the opinion that "if it ain't broken, don't fix it". What is "broken" about Perl that we're trying to fix with a replacement (whether it be Lua, Python, NodeJS, Ruby, PHP, TCL, alb, BASIC … or something else)? -- Stuart Longland (aka Redhatter, VK4MSL) I haven't lost my mind... ...it's backed up on a tape somewhere.
ownership of mailboxes with dovecot
Greetings, I'm using an IMAP mailserver with dovecot which is entirely limited to my local network. It pulls my external mail with fetchmail. There is no functional problem with the setup just this concern. I can't manage to get around this: /usr/libexec/security: "# Mailboxes should be owned by the user and unreadable. " but after the installation of dovecot i get this: Running security(8): Checking mailbox ownership. user vmail mailbox is -rw-r--r--, group vmail user username1@foodomain.local.fantasea mailbox is owned by vmail user username2@foodomain.local.fantasea mailbox is owned by vmail user username3@foodomain.local.fantasea mailbox is owned by vmail Obviously dovecot has other ideas about security than OpenBSD. Dovecot seems to require these mailboxes to be owned by vmail. Can I remedy this (then: how?) or should I go on to ignore this warning? Thank you for your time Eike Lantzsch ZP6CGE
Re: The OpenBSD talk at 36c3
On 2019-12-31 05:19, g...@isdaq.com wrote: > he completely misses the mark. > rather than think "hmm 75% of commits are only 20 chars or less which seem Having watched the video now, that particular part of the talk is poor. He doesn't seem to even know that stable exists. My original thought was that there were mal intent. I think not now, unless it has been shaped by criticism. It is a highly complex talk and I am sure there are parts where he is short on knowledge but got threw in the deep end of making a talk comprehensive and trying to look as competent as possible. He could lose a bit of arrogance and is wrong in a few places. I don't actually even agree with his security quotes entirely as with everything it depends on context like mitigations cannot be taken alone, without the context of other mitigations, older hardware etc.. Though, I don't even agree with the security triangle entirely ;-) Perhaps I missed the point but attacks not being currently used is a false metric as they could still be used, if allowed. I think he has done quite well considering and clearly made an effort surrounded by voices likely from competitive projects. He clearly has some knowledge around attack vectors. His biggest mistake is he should be asking questions considering his limited knowledge of OpenBSD and not making arrogant statements. It was an interesting talk atleast and re-evaluation is almost always useful. OTOH hand, it may stem from attempting to make the case that if Linux does priv sep/drop, unveil and pledge then Linux is good and the Linux kernel, is not an issue. If so, then that is a naive view. More likely, he is just in transition to OpenBSD :-)
