Re: APCI on old Thinkpad
Hi, Thomas Vetere wrote: Yep, Claudio is correct. I have an old 600e and this is an official statement from IBM support page long ago: *"The ThinkPad 600E is ACPI ready. ACPI is not installed, but the system hardware supports ACPI. While ACPI shows a great deal of promise for the future, numerous problems affect the operation of ACPI on ThinkPad and other notebook systems. Therefore, the system comes with Windows 98 running in APM mode."* So while it might correct, old ThinkPads - wonderful keyboards... wonderful chassis :) Never matched. However indeed - ACPI is a hit and miss... there were BIOS upgrades to install (you have to fiddle with floppies or old CD ISOs to install them... DOS and dark ages). which help a lot. I have tried on my 600 various linux, NetBSD and OpenBSD... some supported it, some not, disabling it by known bugs. Basic ACPI can work (sleep and such) other stuff is not useful anyway, processor fans were independent. Riccardo
Re: APCI on old Thinkpad
Am 03.07.23 22:45 schrieb Claudio Jeker: > Also keep in mind that laptops that old most often had bad or broken early > ACPI implementations and it was better to not enable ACPI on those. > Normally there was some BIOS knob to just use apm(4) which often worked > much better. Ah - very interesting. I will have a look...
Re: APCI on old Thinkpad
> Jul 3, 2023 14:47:57 Peter N. M. Hansteen : > > > I had to look this up, since I had forgotten that Thinkpads used to come > with model numbers not prefixed and/or postfixed with letters. > > I think one of several issues you will bump into is that the machine is > almost a quarter century old (released April 1999 if Wikipedia is to be > trusted), > and you may be one of fairly few people who have kept one around this long. indeed this device is very old ...and I am aware that it has many issues ;-) I did run OpenBSD on that thing for a very long time and I was always happy with it but that was starting maybe 5.x or something (I think there was a ghostbusters like CD Box). A while ago my small Netbook broke and I had to buy a new thinkpad . But this new one is so heavy that I desperately remebered my old slim and low weigth thinkpad 570. > > This means in practice that in all likelihood, recent versions of any > > now-useful > > software has been only lightly tested (if at all) on that vintage hardware. I thought about reading emails with mutt(1).
Re: APCI on old Thinkpad
Yep, Claudio is correct. I have an old 600e and this is an official statement from IBM support page long ago: *"The ThinkPad 600E is ACPI ready. ACPI is not installed, but the system hardware supports ACPI. While ACPI shows a great deal of promise for the future, numerous problems affect the operation of ACPI on ThinkPad and other notebook systems. Therefore, the system comes with Windows 98 running in APM mode."* So while it might 'support' ACPI theoretically, it probably wont work very well ;) Il Lun 3 Lug 2023, 4:47 PM Claudio Jeker ha scritto: > Also keep in mind that laptops that old most often had bad or broken early > ACPI implementations and it was better to not enable ACPI on those. > Normally there was some BIOS knob to just use apm(4) which often worked > much better. > > On Mon, Jul 03, 2023 at 08:58:45PM +0200, Daniele B. wrote: > > Thanks Peter, point got. > > > > I also go ahead with very old hardware, kind of 10 years old minipc/pc > (including a Mac Pro).. and > > we are in so good habits with our OpenBSD os that we tend to think no > problem will never arise. > > Saddly enough we maybe forget what is really feasible.. > > > > > > -- Daniele Bonini > > > > > > Jul 3, 2023 14:47:57 Peter N. M. Hansteen : > > > > > On Mon, Jul 03, 2023 at 01:36:10PM +0200, Michael Hekeler wrote: > > >> oh dear I have forgotten the model number - Sorry! > > >> > > >> It is Thinkpad 570 > > > > > > I had to look this up, since I had forgotten that Thinkpads used to > come > > > with model numbers not prefixed and/or postfixed with letters. > > > > > > I think one of several issues you will bump into is that the machine is > > > almost a quarter century old (released April 1999 if Wikipedia is to > be trusted), > > > and you may be one of fairly few people who have kept one around this > long. > > > > > > This means in practice that in all likelihood, recent versions of any > now-useful > > > software has been only lightly tested (if at all) on that vintage > hardware. > > > > > > If you can get someone with the right skillset interested (as in, not > me, by > > > any measure) it is conceivable that a fix is within reach. That said, > however, > > > I suspect that improving support for more current hardware would tend > to > > > take priority when developers decide what to spend their time on. > > > > > > All the best, > > > Peter > > > > > > -- > > > Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team > > > https://bsdly.blogspot.com/ https://www.bsdly.net/ > https://www.nuug.no/ > > > "Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic" > > > delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 > seconds. > > > > -- > :wq Claudio > >
Re: APCI on old Thinkpad
Also keep in mind that laptops that old most often had bad or broken early ACPI implementations and it was better to not enable ACPI on those. Normally there was some BIOS knob to just use apm(4) which often worked much better. On Mon, Jul 03, 2023 at 08:58:45PM +0200, Daniele B. wrote: > Thanks Peter, point got. > > I also go ahead with very old hardware, kind of 10 years old minipc/pc > (including a Mac Pro).. and > we are in so good habits with our OpenBSD os that we tend to think no problem > will never arise. > Saddly enough we maybe forget what is really feasible.. > > > -- Daniele Bonini > > > Jul 3, 2023 14:47:57 Peter N. M. Hansteen : > > > On Mon, Jul 03, 2023 at 01:36:10PM +0200, Michael Hekeler wrote: > >> oh dear I have forgotten the model number - Sorry! > >> > >> It is Thinkpad 570 > > > > I had to look this up, since I had forgotten that Thinkpads used to come > > with model numbers not prefixed and/or postfixed with letters. > > > > I think one of several issues you will bump into is that the machine is > > almost a quarter century old (released April 1999 if Wikipedia is to be > > trusted), > > and you may be one of fairly few people who have kept one around this long. > > > > This means in practice that in all likelihood, recent versions of any > > now-useful > > software has been only lightly tested (if at all) on that vintage hardware. > > > > If you can get someone with the right skillset interested (as in, not me, by > > any measure) it is conceivable that a fix is within reach. That said, > > however, > > I suspect that improving support for more current hardware would tend to > > take priority when developers decide what to spend their time on. > > > > All the best, > > Peter > > > > -- > > Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team > > https://bsdly.blogspot.com/ https://www.bsdly.net/ https://www.nuug.no/ > > "Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic" > > delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds. > -- :wq Claudio
Re: APCI on old Thinkpad
Thanks Peter, point got. I also go ahead with very old hardware, kind of 10 years old minipc/pc (including a Mac Pro).. and we are in so good habits with our OpenBSD os that we tend to think no problem will never arise. Saddly enough we maybe forget what is really feasible.. -- Daniele Bonini Jul 3, 2023 14:47:57 Peter N. M. Hansteen : > On Mon, Jul 03, 2023 at 01:36:10PM +0200, Michael Hekeler wrote: >> oh dear I have forgotten the model number - Sorry! >> >> It is Thinkpad 570 > > I had to look this up, since I had forgotten that Thinkpads used to come > with model numbers not prefixed and/or postfixed with letters. > > I think one of several issues you will bump into is that the machine is > almost a quarter century old (released April 1999 if Wikipedia is to be > trusted), > and you may be one of fairly few people who have kept one around this long. > > This means in practice that in all likelihood, recent versions of any > now-useful > software has been only lightly tested (if at all) on that vintage hardware. > > If you can get someone with the right skillset interested (as in, not me, by > any measure) it is conceivable that a fix is within reach. That said, however, > I suspect that improving support for more current hardware would tend to > take priority when developers decide what to spend their time on. > > All the best, > Peter > > -- > Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team > https://bsdly.blogspot.com/ https://www.bsdly.net/ https://www.nuug.no/ > "Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic" > delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.
Re: APCI on old Thinkpad
On Mon, Jul 03, 2023 at 01:36:10PM +0200, Michael Hekeler wrote: > oh dear I have forgotten the model number - Sorry! > > It is Thinkpad 570 I had to look this up, since I had forgotten that Thinkpads used to come with model numbers not prefixed and/or postfixed with letters. I think one of several issues you will bump into is that the machine is almost a quarter century old (released April 1999 if Wikipedia is to be trusted), and you may be one of fairly few people who have kept one around this long. This means in practice that in all likelihood, recent versions of any now-useful software has been only lightly tested (if at all) on that vintage hardware. If you can get someone with the right skillset interested (as in, not me, by any measure) it is conceivable that a fix is within reach. That said, however, I suspect that improving support for more current hardware would tend to take priority when developers decide what to spend their time on. All the best, Peter -- Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team https://bsdly.blogspot.com/ https://www.bsdly.net/ https://www.nuug.no/ "Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic" delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.
Re: APCI on old Thinkpad
At my side Really Old sounds good like the Mac Pro.. ;) -- Daniele Bonini Jul 3, 2023 13:36:50 Michael Hekeler : > Am 03.07.23 03:45 schrieb Anders Andersson: >> On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 11:44 PM Michael Hekeler wrote: >>> >>> I have an old thinkpad - really old >> >> Old enough not to have a model number? > > oh dear I have forgotten the model number - Sorry! > > It is Thinkpad 570
Re: APCI on old Thinkpad
Am 03.07.23 03:45 schrieb Anders Andersson: > On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 11:44 PM Michael Hekeler wrote: > > > > I have an old thinkpad - really old > > Old enough not to have a model number? oh dear I have forgotten the model number - Sorry! It is Thinkpad 570
Re: APCI on old Thinkpad
On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 11:44 PM Michael Hekeler wrote: > > I have an old thinkpad - really old Old enough not to have a model number?
APCI on old Thinkpad
I have an old thinkpad - really old
On booting it stops when listing the acpi sleep states and does nothing
more. This is dmesg:
OpenBSD 7.3 (GENERIC) #660: Sat Mar 25 11:17:44 MDT 2023
dera...@i386.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC
real mem = 200753152 (191MB)
avail mem = 179949568 (171MB)
random: good seed from bootblocks
mpath0 at root
scsibus0 at mpath0: 256 targets
mainbus0 at root
bios0 at mainbus0: date 11/01/99, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xfd840, SMBIOS rev. 2.2 @
0xe0010 (35 entries)
bios0: vendor IBM version "IMET56WW" date 11/01/99
bios0: IBM 26443AG
acpi at bios0: ACPI 1.0
acpi0: sleep states S0 S1 S3 S4 S5
It can boot when disabling acpi (see dmesg below).
But then I can't zzz/ZZZ.
Ist there something other I can than disabling acpi?
Or is this old device simply not supported any more?
OpenBSD 7.3 (GENERIC) #660: Sat Mar 25 11:17:44 MDT 2023
dera...@i386.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC
real mem = 200753152 (191MB)
avail mem = 179949568 (171MB)
User Kernel Config
UKC> disable acpi
526 acpi0 disabled
UKC> quit
Continuing...
random: good seed from bootblocks
mpath0 at root
scsibus0 at mpath0: 256 targets
mainbus0 at root
bios0 at mainbus0: date 11/01/99, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xfd840, SMBIOS rev. 2.2 @
0xe0010 (35 entries)
bios0: vendor IBM version "IMET56WW" date 11/01/99
bios0: IBM 26443AG
acpi at bios0 function 0x0 not configured
apm0 at bios0: Power Management spec V1.2
pcibios0 at bios0: rev 2.1 @ 0xfd7d0/0x830
pcibios0: PCI IRQ Routing Table rev 1.0 @ 0xfdef0/192 (10 entries)
pcibios0: PCI Interrupt Router at 000:06:0 ("Intel 82371FB ISA" rev 0x00)
pcibios0: PCI bus #9 is the last bus
bios0: ROM list: 0xc/0xc000
cpu0 at mainbus0: (uniprocessor)
cpu0: Intel Celeron ("GenuineIntel" 686-class, 256KB L2 cache) 366 MHz, 06-06-0a
cpu0:
FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PSE36,MMX,FXSR,PERF,MELTDOWN
mtrr: Pentium Pro MTRR support, 8 var ranges, 88 fixed ranges
pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (bios)
pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 "Intel 82443BX AGP" rev 0x03
intelagp0 at pchb0
agp0 at intelagp0: aperture at 0xf800, size 0x400
ppb0 at pci0 dev 1 function 0 "Intel 82443BX AGP" rev 0x03
pci1 at ppb0 bus 1
vga1 at pci1 dev 0 function 0 "Neomagic Magicgraph NM2200" rev 0x20
wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation)
wsdisplay0: screen 1-5 added (80x25, vt100 emulation)
cbb0 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 "TI PCI1450 CardBus" rev 0x03: irq 11
cbb1 at pci0 dev 2 function 1 "TI PCI1450 CardBus" rev 0x03: irq 11
clcs0 at pci0 dev 5 function 0 "Cirrus Logic CS4280/46xx CrystalClear" rev
0x01: irq 11
ac97: codec id 0x43525903 (Cirrus Logic CS4297 rev 3)
ac97: codec features headphone, 18 bit DAC, 18 bit ADC, No 3D Stereo
pcib0 at pci0 dev 6 function 0 "Intel 82371AB PIIX4 ISA" rev 0x02
pciide0 at pci0 dev 6 function 1 "Intel 82371AB IDE" rev 0x01: DMA, channel 0
wired to compatibility, channel 1 wired to compatibility
wd0 at pciide0 channel 0 drive 0:
wd0: 16-sector PIO, LBA, 3909MB, 8007552 sectors
wd0(pciide0:0:0): using PIO mode 4, Ultra-DMA mode 2
atapiscsi0 at pciide0 channel 1 drive 0
scsibus1 at atapiscsi0: 2 targets
cd0 at scsibus1 targ 0 lun 0: removable
cd0(pciide0:1:0): using PIO mode 4, DMA mode 2
uhci0 at pci0 dev 6 function 2 "Intel 82371AB USB" rev 0x01: irq 11
piixpm0 at pci0 dev 6 function 3 "Intel 82371AB Power" rev 0x02: SMI
iic0 at piixpm0
"AT/Lucent LTMODEM" rev 0x01 at pci0 dev 7 function 0 not configured
cardslot0 at cbb0 slot 0 flags 0
cardbus0 at cardslot0: bus 7 device 0 cacheline 0x8, lattimer 0xb0
pcmcia0 at cardslot0
cbb1: bad Vcc request. sock_ctrl 0x0, sock_status 0x3b20
cardslot1 at cbb1 slot 1 flags 0
cardbus1 at cardslot1: bus 9 device 0 cacheline 0x8, lattimer 0xb0
pcmcia1 at cardslot1
isa0 at pcib0
isadma0 at isa0
fdc0 at isa0 port 0x3f0/6 irq 6 drq 2
pckbc0 at isa0 port 0x60/5 irq 1 irq 12
pckbd0 at pckbc0 (kbd slot)
wskbd0 at pckbd0: console keyboard, using wsdisplay0
pms0 at pckbc0 (aux slot)
wsmouse0 at pms0 mux 0
pcppi0 at isa0 port 0x61
spkr0 at pcppi0
lpt2 at isa0 port 0x3bc/4: polled
npx0 at isa0 port 0xf0/16: reported by CPUID; using exception 16
usb0 at uhci0: USB revision 1.0
uhub0 at usb0 configuration 1 interface 0 "Intel UHCI root hub" rev 1.00/1.00
addr 1
cbb1: bad Vcc request. sock_ctrl 0x30, sock_status 0x3b20
vscsi0 at root
scsibus2 at vscsi0: 256 targets
softraid0 at root
scsibus3 at softraid0: 256 targets
root on wd0a (bdf7ab95ec79e5e9.a) swap on wd0b dump on wd0b
rl0 at cardbus1 dev 0 function 0 "D-Link DFE-690TXD" rev 0x10: irq 11, address
00:11:95:5a:f8:7a
rlphy0 at rl0 phy 0: RTL internal PHY
clcs0: firmware loaded
audio0 at clcs0
fd0 at fdc0 drive 0: 1.44MB 80 cyl, 2 head, 18 sec
