Re: FOSDEM 2018 - Distributions Devroom Call for Participation

[Marc Espie]

On Sat, Nov 04, 2017 at 06:54:56AM +0100, somebody wrote:
> Hold on a sec, that's not my nick. I'm provisionally using my bf's
> account (with permission!). Just saying since this will end up in the
> archives and it shouldn't be ascribed to him.

Not my problem.  You're on a technical list, sending insults and
you can't even configure it properly.

> You'll find my real nick at the bottom of my messages :)
Don't care.

> > This is not spam. It is an on-topic posting.

> Yes, the poster has enlightened me by private e-mail now. There's an
> OpenBSD 'track', apparently, woohoo!
Like duh, that's common knowledge for every european dev who hasn't
been living under a rock for the past years (and probably in the
rest of the world as well).


> You really can't expect me to not consider a long, iterative, message, 
> laden with buzzwords and sloppy English, advertising something, with
> *no* mention of anything distinctly on-topic whatsoever, spam.

Apart from the fact   that most of that stuff was actually on-topic,
and perfectly easy to understand when you're actually interested in
that stuff...

Like, you know, not reinventing our own private wheel in a corner,
when other distributions are actually making the same kind of effort.

Or getting some common ground in buildbots and testing infrastructure.

You know, like some porters in OpenBSD have been doing, getting OpenBSD
from a poorly supported architecture to something that's actually tested
regularly on buildbots for some major projects.

How is this not relevant for you  ?   Don't you use any major
cross-platform software, like firefox, or gnome, or kde...

> I suppose I should explain here that I'm not very much fonder of the
> 'free software' world than I'm of the 'proprietary crap' one. Not that 
> I don't find the former approach infinitely superior, it's just that,
> from me POV, there's an increasing failure to live up to the ideals.

Well, duh, and trying to up the standards by not doing the same thing
twiceis of no interest to you.

> Honestly, if it's not spam, the announcement should really be better
> worded, especially since the whole point of a conference is
> communication. The announcement doesn't really reflect that.

The announcement was actually targetted.  The people on misc@ that
have an interest in this kind of thing   actually do know what the
announcement was about.

And, hey, this is misc@. This announcement was actually much more
informative and useful than the usual email on that list.

Re: FOSDEM 2018 - Distributions Devroom Call for Participation

[Peter Hessler]

On 2017 Nov 03 (Fri) at 20:57:52 +0100 (+0100), leo_...@volny.cz wrote:
:Hi,
:
:[I don't normally respond to spam, but I need to blow off some
: frustration =)]
:

This is amazingly insulting, and *you* don't get to do it on our lists.

Do not attack people sending useful emails, just because you don't
understand them.

I do not care if you see other people do it.  They shouldn't do it
either.

RE: FOSDEM 2018 - Distributions Devroom Call for Participation

[leo_tck]

Hi,

"Ingo Schwarze"  wrote:
> Hi leo_tck,

Hold on a sec, that's not my nick. I'm provisionally using my bf's
account (with permission!). Just saying since this will end up in the
archives and it shouldn't be ascribed to him.

You'll find my real nick at the bottom of my messages :)

> This is not spam. It is an on-topic posting.

Yes, the poster has enlightened me by private e-mail now. There's an
OpenBSD 'track', apparently, woohoo!

You really can't expect me to not consider a long, iterative, message, 
laden with buzzwords and sloppy English, advertising something, with
*no* mention of anything distinctly on-topic whatsoever, spam.

> Please refrain from insulting people, in particular those posting
> rarely who may not be very familiar with OpenBSD and might be
> mislead to think that such insults would be normal or acceptable
> in an OpenBSD context.

*cough* Theo *cough*.

But no, I absolutely have no intention of representing OpenBSD. Since I
didn't invoke any official capacity, didn't send mail from an
OpenBSD.org address (obviously I don't even have one!), and put that
little disclaimer at the top, it should've been, an be, clear that my
reply was from me little self only.

And from no-one else.

> FOSDEM is a major conference about Free Software, arguably even the
> major conference in Europe. OpenBSD as a free operating system.
> OpenBSD developers have presented at FOSDEM in the past. I'm
> actually considering to propose a presentation myself, and i'm
> grateful for the heads-up.

I suppose I should explain here that I'm not very much fonder of the
'free software' world than I'm of the 'proprietary crap' one. Not that 
I don't find the former approach infinitely superior, it's just that,
from me POV, there's an increasing failure to live up to the ideals.

But if you like this sort of thing, good luck w/ your presentation =)

No hard feelings, really.

> I consider FOSDEM a major opportunity for communication among
> free operating systems that rarely talk to each other. The *BSD
> conferences are no doubt useful too, but less suited to that
> particular purpose.

Yeah, after said private e-mail, I started to figure that the list of
buzzwords was in fact a list of excuses to convince one's boss to pay
for attendance.

Y'know, I find it funny and appropriate when a local shop owner hangs a
"closed for urgent technical reasons" sign when he's taken the day off
to enjoy a barrel of homebrew beer with a friend.

But if I'm right about those buzzwords, well, let's just say that the
level and kind of deception in them appalls me.

> While some of your questions may be interesting and some of your
> criticisms might have a point, discussing most of them would be
> off-topic on this list. A call for proposals for a major free
> software conference is clearly on topic here; nitpicking on the
> concept of the conference is not.

Honestly, if it's not spam, the announcement should really be better
worded, especially since the whole point of a conference is
communication. The announcement doesn't really reflect that.

Thanks for your enlightening response. I agree that this discussion is
off-topic and thus propose that any further replies (from anyone) be
sent by private e-mail.

Sincerely,

--schaafuit.

RE: FOSDEM 2018 - Distributions Devroom Call for Participation

[leo_tck]

*sigh*

I wrote:
> Yes, the poster has enlightened me by private e-mail now. There's an
> OpenBSD 'track', apparently, woohoo!

Correction: it was not the poster, and it was in public.

This broken webmail poop is why I din't respond everyday. Be glad! ;)

--schaafuit.

Re: FOSDEM 2018 - Distributions Devroom Call for Participation

[Bryan Steele]

On Fri, Nov 03, 2017 at 08:57:52PM +0100, leo_...@volny.cz wrote:
> "Brian Exelbierd"  wrote:
> > Online at:
> > https://lists.fosdem.org/pipermail/fosdem/2017-October/002648.html
> > 
> > The Distributions devroom will take place Sunday 4 February 2018 at
> > FOSDEM, in Brussels, Belgium at the Université Libre de Bruxelles.
> 
> Interesting. What does this have to do with OpenBSD?

Quite a bit, actually. FOSDEM has had a BSD devroom track for years.

> And I'll sign it with my shit.
> 
> Stop spamming us, really.
> 
> --schaafuit.

I'd gladly welcome their mail if it means we'll never again receive 
any of yours.

Go away.

-Bryan.

Re: FOSDEM 2018 - Distributions Devroom Call for Participation

[Ingo Schwarze]

Hi leo_tck,

leo_...@volny.cz wrote on Fri, Nov 03, 2017 at 08:57:52PM +0100:

> [I don't normally respond to spam,

This is not spam.  It is an on-topic posting.

Please refrain from insulting people, in particular those posting
rarely who may not be very familiar with OpenBSD and might be
mislead to think that such insults would be normal or acceptable
in an OpenBSD context.

> "Brian Exelbierd"  wrote:

>> Online at:
>> https://lists.fosdem.org/pipermail/fosdem/2017-October/002648.html
>>
>> The Distributions devroom will take place Sunday 4 February 2018 at
>> FOSDEM, in Brussels, Belgium at the Universite Libre de Bruxelles.

> Interesting.  What does this have to do with OpenBSD?

FOSDEM is a major conference about Free Software, arguably even the
major conference in Europe.  OpenBSD as a free operating system.
OpenBSD developers have presented at FOSDEM in the past.  I'm
actually considering to propose a presentation myself, and i'm
grateful for the heads-up.

I consider FOSDEM a major opportunity for communication among
free operating systems that rarely talk to each other.  The *BSD
conferences are no doubt useful too, but less suited to that
particular purpose.

While some of your questions may be interesting and some of your
criticisms might have a point, discussing most of them would be
off-topic on this list.  A call for proposals for a major free
software conference is clearly on topic here; nitpicking on the
concept of the conference is not.

Yours,
  Ingo

-- 
Ingo Schwarze 

RE: FOSDEM 2018 - Distributions Devroom Call for Participation

[leo_tck]

Hi,

[I don't normally respond to spam, but I need to blow off some
 frustration =)]

"Brian Exelbierd"  wrote:
> Online at:
> https://lists.fosdem.org/pipermail/fosdem/2017-October/002648.html
> 
> The Distributions devroom will take place Sunday 4 February 2018 at
> FOSDEM, in Brussels, Belgium at the Universit=C3=A9 Libre de Bruxelles.

Interesting. What does this have to do with OpenBSD?

> For this year's distributions devroom, we want to focus on the ways that
> distribution technologies can be leveraged to allow for easier
> creation of a multi-verse of artifacts from single source trees.

Uhm, what does that *mean*, in technical terms?

> We also
> want to continue to highlight the huge efforts being made in shared
> environments around Build/Test/Release cycles.

Define 'shared environments'?

> We welcome submissions targeted at contributors interested in issues
> unique to distributions, especially in the following topics:
> 
> - Distribution and Community collaborations, eg: how does code flow from
>   developers to end users across communities, ensuring trust and code
>   audibility
^^

I propose reviving speak(1).

> - Automating building software for redistribution to minimize human
>   involvement, eg: bots that branch and build software, bots that
>   participate as team members extending human involvement

Counterproductive.

> - Cross-distribution collaboration on common issues, eg: content
>   distribution, infrastructure, and documentation

What's cross-distribution? Is it like cross-pollination?

> - Growing distribution communities, eg: onboarding new users, helping
>   new contributors learn community values and technology,  increasing
>   contributor technical skills, recognizing and rewarding contribution

Sounds like a schoolteacher approach to me. An onboarding school, haha!

> - Principals of Rolling Releases, Long Term Supported Releases (LTS),
>   Feature gated releases, and calendar releases

You do know that calendar releases have been obsolete since cal(1),
right?

Unless you like pretty pictures.

> - Distribution construction, installation, deployment, packaging and
>   content management

Ooh yes, when installing OpenBSD I'm very very interested in content
management, woohoo!

> - Balancing new code and active upstreams verus security updates, back
>   porting and minimization of user breaking changes

{,L}users are broken by design, so we don't need to worry about that =)

> - Delivering architecture independent software universally across
>   architectures within the confines of distribution systems

Gibberish.

> - Effectively communicating the difference in experience across
>   architectures for developers, packagers, and users

Ever heard of manual pages? They're great!

> - Working with vendors and including them in the community

What vendors? Most of them ain't interested.

> - The future of distributions, emerging trends and evolving user demands
>   from the idea of a platform

I DEMAND WINDOZE 3193179381, AND I DEMAND IT NOW!!!11!!1!! WH!11!!!

> Ideal submissions are actionable and opinionated. Submissions may
> be in the form of 25 or 50 minute talks, panel sessions, round-table
> discussions, or Birds of a Feather (BoF) sessions.

Actionable? Prolly. Opinionated? Yup. Write me in!

And I'll sign it with my shit.

Stop spamming us, really.

--schaafuit.

FOSDEM 2018 - Distributions Devroom Call for Participation

[Brian Exelbierd]

Online at:
https://lists.fosdem.org/pipermail/fosdem/2017-October/002648.html

The Distributions devroom will take place Sunday 4 February 2018 at
FOSDEM, in Brussels, Belgium at the Université Libre de Bruxelles.

For this year's distributions devroom, we want to focus on the ways that
distribution technologies can be leveraged to allow for easier
creation of a multi-verse of artifacts from single source trees. We also
want to continue to highlight the huge efforts being made in shared
environments around Build/Test/Release cycles.

We welcome submissions targeted at contributors interested in issues
unique to distributions, especially in the following topics:

- Distribution and Community collaborations, eg: how does code flow from
  developers to end users across communities, ensuring trust and code
  audibility

- Automating building software for redistribution to minimize human
  involvement, eg: bots that branch and build software, bots that
  participate as team members extending human involvement

- Cross-distribution collaboration on common issues, eg: content
  distribution, infrastructure, and documentation

- Growing distribution communities, eg: onboarding new users, helping
  new contributors learn community values and technology,  increasing
  contributor technical skills, recognizing and rewarding contribution

- Principals of Rolling Releases, Long Term Supported Releases (LTS),
  Feature gated releases, and calendar releases

- Distribution construction, installation, deployment, packaging and
  content management

- Balancing new code and active upstreams verus security updates, back
  porting and minimization of user breaking changes

- Delivering architecture independent software universally across
  architectures within the confines of distribution systems

- Effectively communicating the difference in experience across
  architectures for developers, packagers, and users

- Working with vendors and including them in the community

- The future of distributions, emerging trends and evolving user demands
  from the idea of a platform

Ideal submissions are actionable and opinionated. Submissions may
be in the form of 25 or 50 minute talks, panel sessions, round-table
discussions, or Birds of a Feather (BoF) sessions.

Dates
--
Submission Deadline: 03-Dec-2017 @ 2359 GMT
Acceptance Notification: 8-Dec-2017
Final Schedule Posted: 15-Dec-2017

How to submit
--
Visit https://penta.fosdem.org/submission/FOSDEM18

1.) If you do not have an account, create one here
2.) Click 'Create Event'
3.) Enter your presentation details
4.) Be sure to select the Distributions Devroom track!
5.) Submit

What to include
---
- The title of your submission
- A 1-paragraph Abstract
- A longer description including the benefit of your talk to your target
  audience, including a definition of your target audience.
- Approximate length / type of submission (talk, BoF, ...)
- Links to related websites/blogs/talk material (if any)

Administrative Notes

We will be live-streaming and recording the Distributions Devroom.
Presenting at FOSDEM implies permission to record your session and
distribute the recording afterwards. All videos will be made available
under the standard FOSDEM content license (CC-BY).

If you have any questions, feel free to contact the
devroom organizers: distributions-devr...@lists.fosdem.org
(https://lists.fosdem.org/listinfo/distributions-devroom)

Cheers!

Brian Exelbierd (twitter: @bexelbie) and Brian Stinson (twitter:
@bstinsonmhk) for and on behalf of The Distributions Devroom Program
Committee