Re: I need to get a Russian keyboard

2016-05-28 Thread ropers 
On 28 May 2016 at 02:33, Brandon Vincent  wrote:

> When I saw this thread, I was reminded of my attempts to get a
> keyboard as cool (although inaccurate) as the one in Tomorrow Never
> Dies (1997).
>

I once knew a feller called Tom Morrow who was a draper by trade. He had a
roll of white cotton fabric and a supply of carmine, but he refused to sell
me red cloth.

Re: I need to get a Russian keyboard

2016-05-27 Thread Chris Bennett 
On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 12:48:52AM +0200, ropers wrote:
> On 27 May 2016 at 22:16, Chris Bennett wrote:
> 
> > Can I borrow someone's 3D printer so that I can make my own identical
> > keys except with Cyrillic letters only?
> > There is no rush, after all, I'm not going to actually use it, it's just
> > going to be a decorative piece in the living room
> 

The above was just a joke ;-) Hope I didn't offend anyone.

> 
> Despite the single-alphabet layout picture on the JCUKEN Wikipedia page,
> I've never seen an actual Russian keyboard that didn't have both Cyrillic
> and Western letters on its keycaps. At least *most* authentic present-day
> Russian keyboards have both. Of course I don't know if authenticity is a
> factor for what you have in mind...
> 

No, I intend to use it.
Even on Russian sites, I only found keyboards with both.
Not a problem. This is the first time I've looked for anything with a
totally different alphabet, so this works.

And it's interesting. Computer programming started in English and works
just fine using that small set of letters and symbols. I can't see that
any more characters would ever be needed, so maybe that set should be
looked at as programming language derived from English but not English.

Chris Bennett

Re: I need to get a Russian keyboard

2016-05-27 Thread Brandon Vincent 
On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 3:48 PM, ropers  wrote:
> Despite the single-alphabet layout picture on the JCUKEN Wikipedia page,
> I've never seen an actual Russian keyboard that didn't have both Cyrillic
> and Western letters on its keycaps. At least *most* authentic present-day
> Russian keyboards have both. Of course I don't know if authenticity is a
> factor for what you have in mind...

When I saw this thread, I was reminded of my attempts to get a
keyboard as cool (although inaccurate) as the one in Tomorrow Never
Dies (1997).

https://youtu.be/6L2BxAWOscQ?t=20s

Brandon Vincent

Re: I need to get a Russian keyboard

2016-05-27 Thread ropers 
On 27 May 2016 at 22:16, Chris Bennett wrote:

> Can I borrow someone's 3D printer so that I can make my own identical
> keys except with Cyrillic letters only?
> There is no rush, after all, I'm not going to actually use it, it's just
> going to be a decorative piece in the living room


Despite the single-alphabet layout picture on the JCUKEN Wikipedia page,
I've never seen an actual Russian keyboard that didn't have both Cyrillic
and Western letters on its keycaps. At least *most* authentic present-day
Russian keyboards have both. Of course I don't know if authenticity is a
factor for what you have in mind...

regards,
--роперс

Re: I need to get a Russian keyboard

2016-05-27 Thread Chris Bennett 
On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 11:14:53AM -0700, Constantine Aleksandrovich Murenin 
wrote:
> On 27 May 2016 at 06:36, Joseph Fierro  wrote:
> > On 05/27/2016 12:27 AM, Chris Bennett wrote:
> >> Any advice on what to be sure to find or not find on a keyboard?
> 
> I'm quite surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet in this rather long
> thread -- why do you actually need labels on your keys?
> 
> Do you actually look at your keyboard whilst you type?!  /Ain't nobody
> got time for that?/
> 
> My advice is to use a quality keyboard without Cyrillic letters on it!
>  Because, sadly, we haven't actually reached a stage in globalisation
> yet where products aren't localised only to the particular markets in
> which they are sold, and aren't available for sale (over the internet,
> no less!) in the other non-native markets.  Ironically, this applies
> even if they're all custom-order made in China (if you ever ordered
> any laptop directly from Apple or IBM/Lenovo), and are drop-shipped to
> the U.S. consumers directly from Shenzhen!
> 

You are so right! This is just unacceptable! But I now have the answer!

Can I borrow someone's 3D printer so that I can make my own identical
keys except with Cyrillic letters only?
There is no rush, after all, I'm not going to actually use it, it's just
going to be a decorative piece in the living room along with the drink
coasters with the little platforms made on top of mice.

This long thread has not only shown two excellent keyboard supplier's,
one in the US and one in Europe, which should be helpful to anyone
wanting to buy any type of keyboard. The off-list mails I have had made
some other methods I would not have thought of for a quicker solution
that is excellent, cheap but a little bit of work.

Laters Dude,
Christofor Eduardovich

Re: I need to get a Russian keyboard

2016-05-27 Thread Constantine Aleksandrovich Murenin 
On 27 May 2016 at 06:36, Joseph Fierro  wrote:
> On 05/27/2016 12:27 AM, Chris Bennett wrote:
>> Any advice on what to be sure to find or not find on a keyboard?

I'm quite surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet in this rather long
thread -- why do you actually need labels on your keys?

Do you actually look at your keyboard whilst you type?!  /Ain't nobody
got time for that?/

My advice is to use a quality keyboard without Cyrillic letters on it!
 Because, sadly, we haven't actually reached a stage in globalisation
yet where products aren't localised only to the particular markets in
which they are sold, and aren't available for sale (over the internet,
no less!) in the other non-native markets.  Ironically, this applies
even if they're all custom-order made in China (if you ever ordered
any laptop directly from Apple or IBM/Lenovo), and are drop-shipped to
the U.S. consumers directly from Shenzhen!

Cheers,
Constantine.SU.

Re: I need to get a Russian keyboard

2016-05-27 Thread Joseph Fierro 

On 05/27/2016 12:27 AM, Chris Bennett wrote:

This question has probably been asked before, but a lot has changed
since then.

I want to buy a new one, sent to the USA. Looked at Amazon briefly. Not
sure if there may be a better place to order from.
I don't want keyboard stickers that I saw.
Right now I do almost everything in English and either grab a Spanish
keyboard or use setxkbmap es and just remember what key is what.

Is setxkbmap ru going to do the trick or will I need to do something
else also or instead?

Any advice on what to be sure to find or not find on a keyboard?

Thanks,
Chris Bennett




I have written a lot of essays using the phonetic keyboard
provided by "setxkbmap ru phonetic" and find it works well
if you don't have a proper Russian keyboard. There are some
irritations though, most of which you'll get used to quickly.

Not every Russian character has a direct English counterpart, so
you may have to hunt around a bit to find what you want.
The "sh" and "shsh" characters are the bracket keys, for example.

Some Russian letters are very similar in sound to an English one, but 
aren't

mapped that way. The Russian "v" is mapped to the English "w" key, rather
than just using the English "v".

You'll spend a lot of time hitting the English "H" when you want a 
Russian "n". ;)


Still, I have found this to be better than either trying to remember the 
Russian
Windows layout mentally or dealing with stickers that never stay on the 
keys.

Re: I need to get a Russian keyboard

2016-05-27 Thread Dmitrij D. Czarkoff 
Chris Bennett said:
> Is setxkbmap ru going to do the trick or will I need to do something
> else also or instead?

"setxkbmap ru" will set standard "Windows" Russian layout which is
printed on keyboards in Russia.

FYI there is a set of "phonetic" layouts that map Russian Cyrillic
glyphs to similarly looking or sounding native keys.  These are readily
available for several layouts:

  $ sed -En '/Russian.+phonetic/s/.+: //p' 
/usr/X11R6/share/X11/xkb/rules/base.lst
  Russian (US, phonetic)
  Russian (Czech, phonetic)
  Russian (Germany, phonetic)
  Russian (Poland, phonetic Dvorak)
  Russian (phonetic)
  Russian (phonetic WinKeys)
  Russian (phonetic azerty)
  Russian (phonetic French)
  Russian (Sweden, phonetic)
  Russian (Sweden, phonetic, eliminate dead keys)

I personally use Yugoslav keyboard with my custom layout based on
standard Yugoslav Cyrillic rules.  Having same keys for punctuation make
typing in several languages much less painful.

> Any advice on what to be sure to find or not find on a keyboard?

All keyboards produced for Russia in last 15 to 20 years are identical
in terms of layout.  Be aware that some keyboards come with Russian
glyphs as pre-applied labels.  These don't last long.

-- 
Dmitrij D. Czarkoff

Re: I need to get a Russian keyboard

2016-05-27 Thread ropers 
If you're looking for the normal default ЙЦУКЕН / JTSUKEN /JCUKEN
layout*,*
that's pretty common, and you can just google/ebay/amazon search for
Russian/Cyrillic keyboards. (Exclude -stickers -sticker if there are too
many hits of those where you are.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JCUKEN

Other layouts maybe harder to get.


On 27 May 2016 at 06:27, Chris Bennett 
wrote:

> This question has probably been asked before, but a lot has changed
> since then.
>
> I want to buy a new one, sent to the USA. Looked at Amazon briefly. Not
> sure if there may be a better place to order from.
> I don't want keyboard stickers that I saw.
> Right now I do almost everything in English and either grab a Spanish
> keyboard or use setxkbmap es and just remember what key is what.
>
> Is setxkbmap ru going to do the trick or will I need to do something
> else also or instead?
>
> Any advice on what to be sure to find or not find on a keyboard?
>
> Thanks,
> Chris Bennett

Re: I need to get a Russian keyboard

2016-05-27 Thread Christoph Viethen 

Hello,

on 27.05.2016 06:27, Chris Bennett wrote:

This question has probably been asked before, but a lot has changed
since then.

I want to buy a new one, sent to the USA. Looked at Amazon briefly. Not
sure if there may be a better place to order from.


Cherry, for one of the largest manufacturers of keyboard switches, 
builds its classic G80-3000 with "US and cyrillic" layout (see 
http://www.cherry.de/cid/keyboards_G80-3000.htm?rdeLocationAttr=US=en 
, click on "Models").


Apple (in case you like those thin things where the keycaps barely 
move) sells one, too ...


http://www.apple.com/ru/shop/product/MB110RU/B

Unicomp (pckeyboard.com) of course, as somebody else suggested on this 
list, is a nice idea, too. Very solid stuff indeed ... may even be up 
to Russian military standards. ;-)



As for places to buy keyboards, I recently bought (a completely 
different, non-Cyrillic) one from "The Keyboard Company" in the UK, 
and at least their name suggests they seem to know a bit about that 
subject matter.


They also sell a "no-name" Russian-layout one 
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard/russian-keyboard-black-usb.asp , 
but I'm sure you could talk to them and ask them whether they can get 
ahold of the Cyrillic version of the Cherry (G80-3000LPCRB-x) in case 
you want a better one. I'm guessing they will ship world-wide.



Any advice on what to be sure to find or not find on a keyboard?


Sorry, I'm not competent to tell you about "standard" kb layouts and 
whatnot when it comes to Russia, but looking at the pictures of the 
Apple keyboard and the no-name one from that dealer, the layouts do 
seem to have a lot of similarities. (Not sure whether that really 
helps you. :) )



In any case, if you find a nice keyboard on some European site and you 
totally cannot find a way to get it shipped to the U.S., let me know 
off-list and maybe we can work something out.



Cheers,

  Christoph

--
 open...@aixplosive.net

Re: I need to get a Russian keyboard

2016-05-26 Thread Philipp Buehler 

Am 27.05.2016 06:27 schrieb Chris Bennett:

This question has probably been asked before, but a lot has changed
since then.

I want to buy a new one, sent to the USA. Looked at Amazon briefly. Not
sure if there may be a better place to order from.


http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/KBDCFG

offers 'Language: Russian' (among others)

HTH,
--
pb

Re: I need to get a Russian keyboard

2016-05-26 Thread S V 
Looked at Ebay?

пятница, 27 мая 2016 г. пользователь Chris Bennett
написал:
> This question has probably been asked before, but a lot has changed
> since then.
>
> I want to buy a new one, sent to the USA. Looked at Amazon briefly. Not
> sure if there may be a better place to order from.
> I don't want keyboard stickers that I saw.
> Right now I do almost everything in English and either grab a Spanish
> keyboard or use setxkbmap es and just remember what key is what.
>
> Is setxkbmap ru going to do the trick or will I need to do something
> else also or instead?
>
> Any advice on what to be sure to find or not find on a keyboard?
>
> Thanks,
> Chris Bennett
>
>

--
Nerfur Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-

I need to get a Russian keyboard

2016-05-26 Thread Chris Bennett 
This question has probably been asked before, but a lot has changed
since then.

I want to buy a new one, sent to the USA. Looked at Amazon briefly. Not
sure if there may be a better place to order from.
I don't want keyboard stickers that I saw.
Right now I do almost everything in English and either grab a Spanish
keyboard or use setxkbmap es and just remember what key is what.

Is setxkbmap ru going to do the trick or will I need to do something
else also or instead?

Any advice on what to be sure to find or not find on a keyboard?

Thanks,
Chris Bennett