Re: PayPal pool for developer M1 Mac mini for OpenBSD port
Hi, the guys at corellium can boot the Linux kernel and also Ubuntu Linux on a arm based mac mini. Some details can be found at: https://corellium.com/blog/linux-m1 https://github.com/corellium https://asahilinux.org/ Some details sound strange: "...If that wasn't enough, Apple designed their own interrupt controller, the Apple Interrupt Controller (AIC), not compatible with either of the major ARM GIC standards. And not only that: the timer interrupts - normally connected to a regular per-CPU interrupt on ARM - are instead routed to the FIQ, an abstruse architectural feature, seen more frequently in the old 32-bit ARM days. Naturally, Linux kernel did not support delivering any interrupts via the FIQ path, so we had to add that..." Best regards, Sven On 12/3/20 8:35 AM, Otto Moerbeek wrote: On Thu, Dec 03, 2020 at 03:18:54AM +0200, Mihai Popescu wrote: I have only good wishes for the project, but I still don't get one thing: why do some people start to behave oddly whenever Apple comes into discussion. They are doing a proprietary thing, closed as hell, no documentation and so on. Why is this impulse to write code for such a thing. Just asking ... It's a new interesting ARM platform with very good performance. Yes, it is closed but it's also kind of a nice challenge to overcome that hurdle. So mixed feelings about that part. -Otto
Re: PayPal pool for developer M1 Mac mini for OpenBSD port
On 3.12.2020 21:46, Jasper Valentijn wrote: Op do 3 dec. 2020 om 11:28 schreef Stuart Henderson : On 2020-12-03, Janne Johansson wrote: > Den tors 3 dec. 2020 kl 02:21 skrev Mihai Popescu : > >> I have only good wishes for the project, but I still don't get one thing: >> why do some people start to behave oddly whenever Apple comes into >> discussion. >> > > It could also be that if it becomes operable, it is quite a useful machine, > whereas sticking to Pine64 experiment boards and FruityPi clones does quite > limit the usefulness even if they are all aarch64s. That, plus it's a challenge. Some people do sudoku or cryptic crosswords, some play musical instruments, some port OS to new hardware. And some do several of the above (and more). We as community could help to make that possible, I'm wondering how many machines would be needed to make it work. Plus it can be funny race with https://www.patreon.com/marcan Who asks for 4k USD/month for the same goal, just with Linux -- “We spend the first twelve months of our children's lives teaching them to walk and talk and the next twelve telling them to sit down and shut up.”
Re: PayPal pool for developer M1 Mac mini for OpenBSD port
Thanks everyone, this is very good news. Some people are maybe upset by Apple's recent move, but I think OpenBSD devs should be the most enthusiast. In a world of IT hell, "paradise" (simple, neat) software should welcome "paradise" hardware & infrastructure, this is why there was so much chipping in only a few days I think. "simple, neat" hardware & infrastructure doesn't mean "pull in more energy, make it hotter, more complex, and do everything". "free software" is really a way to enrich "some companies" to provide them complex technology for free while labelling "non free" stuff as evil. Someone has to do simple, neat hard and it has always been Apple. Cooperating will certainly lead to good results because companies like Apple put goodness before everything else, otherwise they wouldn't do what they are doing now. (ditching Them) Just throwing in random opinions for those who mistake free software and goodness, it's not as simple. Apple Silicon a lot faster and neat for less power, this is the way to the future. Of course you cannot disclose everything as soon as you release it because otherwise "they" would try to terminate it and nothing would ever be done. Chippers are wiser than fear mongerers Kawashima (just a periodic donator) > R2/12/04 8:12、Tom Smyth のメール: > > Thanks Patrik, Marcan, and Theo... > > Interesting project... OpenBSD on the M1 :) ... best of luck with it > > > >> On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 at 22:11, Patrick Wildt wrote: >> >> This really has shown how much interest there is in having OpenBSD >> running on those machines. Still, we would all not be here without >> the OpenBSD project itself. Not being able to host hackathons due to >> COVID-19 leaves an impact, and I hope that soon(TM) we'll be able to >> get back together to shut up and hack. >> >> I'm sure you all love using OpenBSD and hacking on OpenBSD as much as I >> do, so to help OpenBSD run infrastructure, organize hackathons and to >> flourish even more, please consider donating! >> >> https://www.openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html >> https://www.openbsd.org/donations.html >> >> Also a shoutout to marcan, who'll be doing a lot of reverse engineering >> on the M1. He's pretty good, and I'm supporting his project by being a >> patron. I'm looking forward to his work, because of all the people out >> there who can do it, he's definitely one of them. >> >> https://www.patreon.com/marcan >> >> Patrick >> >> Am Thu, Dec 03, 2020 at 02:33:34PM -0700 schrieb Ben Goren: >>> Oh, wow — it hasn’t even been a full day since I sent this out...and >> already enough of you have chipped in enough to buy not just a single M1 >> system for Patrick, but also a second one for his partner in crime, Mark >> Kettenis. >>> >>> Thank you to all! This show of generosity and support and excitement is >> most welcome. (And, frankly, a bit overwhelming.) >>> >>> If anybody reading this still wishes to donate to the cause, despite the >> immediate needs being met, the money will be put to good use. There are >> other developers who will eventually need their own hardware, and there are >> always other sorts of expenses related to development. Feel free to chip in >> at Patrick’s original link: >>> >>> https://www.paypal.com/pools/c/8uPSkfNJMp >>> >>> ...or, of course, to the OpenBSD general fund (which can *ALWAYS* use >> donations): >>> >>> https://www.openbsd.org/donations.html >>> >>> Thanks again, everybody! >>> >>> b& >>> On Dec 2, 2020, at 2:59 PM, Ben Goren wrote: Greetings, all! Patrick Wildt has set up a PayPal pool to raise funds to purchase an >> M1 Mac mini so he can start porting OpenBSD to the platform. If you’d like >> to be able to run OpenBSD on an M1 system, now would be a great time to >> throw some pennies his way. The donation link: https://paypal.me/pools/c/8uPSkfNJMp Read below for an idea of what one might expect if we can get a >> machine into Patrick’s hands. Cheers, b& Patrick wrote: > Yes, kettenis@ and me are the two ones doing the major work on >> porting > to new devices. Not sure if kettenis@ is interested, but I can ask >> him. > I definitely am, a Mac Mini as a dedicated machine to do stuff with >> and > not care about what is installed would really help. > > Marcan has started a crowdfunding on Patreon. He's a really capable > person, and he'll definitely lay a lot of groundwork needed for >> porting > OpenBSD to the platform. He apparenetly will also do his work in a > dual-licensed fashion, so the BSDs will easily profit from it. > > So, the first steps are basically to follow Marcan's work and use all > that information and code to port OpenBSD as well. > > This *will* take some time, because essentially there are only the > binary drivers, but it's doable and I think with a bit of patience > we will have OpenBSD running
Re: PayPal pool for developer M1 Mac mini for OpenBSD port
Otto Moerbeek writes: > It's a new interesting ARM platform with very good performance. Yes, > it is closed but it's also kind of a nice challenge to overcome that > hurdle. So mixed feelings about that part. Let's not also forget that it gives people a choice as to what software they can run - rather than having to run something out of necessity (i.e. macOS) because it's the only thing that will run. Is that not the dictionary definition of "vendor lock-in"? :-) It's probably more of an investment in the future, since somewhere down the line Apple will decide they want to extract some more money from their users, and stop supporting that particular piece of hardware. What do you do then? You either put up with running an old, out-of-date version of macOS on your perfectly good hardware, give up and buy new hardware, or, you start looking at alternative OS to run. OpenBSD being one of those alternatives would be splendid. That's not to say that if I had some compelling reason to purchase such a machine today, I wouldn't love to be able to run something other than macOS on it - preferably where the value of "something other than macOS" is OpenBSD. So I am definitely *not* saying that attempting to support such hardware in the nearish future is bad idea. In fact, I think it's tremendous. I wish those involved the best of luck. (Also, I envy those who have sufficient time to attempt such a thing, especially if it's just for nothing other than shits and giggles.) Ash
Re: Fwd: PayPal pool for developer M1 Mac mini for OpenBSD port
Clearly I missed Patriks Email ... earlier.. :/ sorry folks +1 if experienced Devs are working on it... it will happen Best of luck to the people working on getting it working ... cant be easy without all the docs ... Thanks On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 at 22:39, Tom Smyth wrote: > Hi Jeff, > > as far as Im aware... if you donate to the project they will source > hardware as the project sees fit.. > if there is an M1 in want.html (where a developer is looking for one to > make an initial POC before the project considers it viable to spend > resources... > it I would be happy to contribute... for that purpose .. > > I dont think anyone has anything specific against apple. per sya.. > there are objections to proprietary firmware... and binary blobs... > and this makes development of OpenSource Systems even harder than it > already is... > > but yes tthe M1 looks awesome it will be interesting to see if they open > it up (a little) ... but it is an arm chip ... so perhaps testing and > providing > open arm hardware would help the project more... check out want.html > > all of these are my own observations as a user over the years and im not > a developer in OpenBSD > > Thanks > Tom SMyth > > > > > > On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 at 22:11, Jeff Joshua Rollin > wrote: > >> >> >> >> Forwarded Message >> Subject:Fwd: PayPal pool for developer M1 Mac mini for OpenBSD >> port >> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2020 21:56:51 + >> From: Jeff Joshua Rollin >> >> >> >> >> >> Oops, forgot to reply to the list. Sorry for the duplicate, Mihai. >> >> >> On 03/12/2020 01:18, Mihai Popescu wrote: >> > I have only good wishes for the project, but I still don't get one >> thing: >> > why do some people start to behave oddly whenever Apple comes into >> > discussion. >> > They are doing a proprietary thing, closed as hell, no documentation >> > and so >> > on. Why is this impulse to write code for such a thing. Just asking ... >> >> Apple make great products. My iMac, which is nearly ten years old, runs >> without problems even today (try that with Windows). iPads and iPhones >> have much better lifetimes than Android devices - we'll see if the >> increasing number of devices running "real Linux" make a dent in the >> market, but either way there are AFAIK no phones using any of the BSDs >> (unless you count macOS/iOS, which for these purposes I don't) anyway. >> >> Other than the fact that the platform is proprietary, the only other >> thing that annoys me about Macs, and always has, is their half-arsed >> attempt at a British keyboard, which unless it's changed since my iMac >> was manufactured still puts @ and " in the wrong places for Brits - >> exactly the opposite places on a US keyboard. (Even Commodore, infamous >> in its day for reliability problems and which bought the Amiga company >> in what no less august an institution than Amiga Format magazine called >> "a rare fit of insight," managed that one.) Fortunately, if you also use >> Linux/UNIX, the problem of switching between keyboards with @ and " in >> 'the wrong place' is easily solved for X11 by selecting a Mac UK >> keyboard in the software settings even on a PC. (They did stubbornly >> stick with that crap butterfly keyboard for four years, for reasons >> presumably best known to themselves, but luckily that era also seems to >> be over, and I didn't bother buying one during that time, for that and >> other reasons.) >> >> As for the proprietaryness, other than the fact that it's a nice new >> hardware architecture as other people have mentioned, pretty much every >> other architecture OpenBSD, NetBSD and Linux has ever run on (Amiga, Sun >> and VAX, for example) is/was proprietary. And that's without considering >> the closed peripherals (without which OpenBSD wouldn't have to eschew >> NDAs) or the BMC on a Wintel - heaven knows what that thing really gets >> up to. >> >> My £0.02 >> >> Jeff. >> >> > > -- > Kindest regards, > Tom Smyth. > -- Kindest regards, Tom Smyth.
Re: PayPal pool for developer M1 Mac mini for OpenBSD port
Thanks Patrik, Marcan, and Theo... Interesting project... OpenBSD on the M1 :) ... best of luck with it On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 at 22:11, Patrick Wildt wrote: > This really has shown how much interest there is in having OpenBSD > running on those machines. Still, we would all not be here without > the OpenBSD project itself. Not being able to host hackathons due to > COVID-19 leaves an impact, and I hope that soon(TM) we'll be able to > get back together to shut up and hack. > > I'm sure you all love using OpenBSD and hacking on OpenBSD as much as I > do, so to help OpenBSD run infrastructure, organize hackathons and to > flourish even more, please consider donating! > > https://www.openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html > https://www.openbsd.org/donations.html > > Also a shoutout to marcan, who'll be doing a lot of reverse engineering > on the M1. He's pretty good, and I'm supporting his project by being a > patron. I'm looking forward to his work, because of all the people out > there who can do it, he's definitely one of them. > > https://www.patreon.com/marcan > > Patrick > > Am Thu, Dec 03, 2020 at 02:33:34PM -0700 schrieb Ben Goren: > > Oh, wow — it hasn’t even been a full day since I sent this out...and > already enough of you have chipped in enough to buy not just a single M1 > system for Patrick, but also a second one for his partner in crime, Mark > Kettenis. > > > > Thank you to all! This show of generosity and support and excitement is > most welcome. (And, frankly, a bit overwhelming.) > > > > If anybody reading this still wishes to donate to the cause, despite the > immediate needs being met, the money will be put to good use. There are > other developers who will eventually need their own hardware, and there are > always other sorts of expenses related to development. Feel free to chip in > at Patrick’s original link: > > > > https://www.paypal.com/pools/c/8uPSkfNJMp > > > > ...or, of course, to the OpenBSD general fund (which can *ALWAYS* use > donations): > > > > https://www.openbsd.org/donations.html > > > > Thanks again, everybody! > > > > b& > > > > > On Dec 2, 2020, at 2:59 PM, Ben Goren wrote: > > > Greetings, all! > > > > > > Patrick Wildt has set up a PayPal pool to raise funds to purchase an > M1 Mac mini so he can start porting OpenBSD to the platform. If you’d like > to be able to run OpenBSD on an M1 system, now would be a great time to > throw some pennies his way. > > > > > > The donation link: https://paypal.me/pools/c/8uPSkfNJMp > > > > > > Read below for an idea of what one might expect if we can get a > machine into Patrick’s hands. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > b& > > > > > > Patrick wrote: > > > > > >> Yes, kettenis@ and me are the two ones doing the major work on > porting > > >> to new devices. Not sure if kettenis@ is interested, but I can ask > him. > > >> I definitely am, a Mac Mini as a dedicated machine to do stuff with > and > > >> not care about what is installed would really help. > > >> > > >> Marcan has started a crowdfunding on Patreon. He's a really capable > > >> person, and he'll definitely lay a lot of groundwork needed for > porting > > >> OpenBSD to the platform. He apparenetly will also do his work in a > > >> dual-licensed fashion, so the BSDs will easily profit from it. > > >> > > >> So, the first steps are basically to follow Marcan's work and use all > > >> that information and code to port OpenBSD as well. > > >> > > >> This *will* take some time, because essentially there are only the > > >> binary drivers, but it's doable and I think with a bit of patience > > >> we will have OpenBSD running on the M1 as well. > > >> > > >> Biggest hurdle, as always, will be support for graphics acceleration. > > -- Kindest regards, Tom Smyth.
Re: Fwd: PayPal pool for developer M1 Mac mini for OpenBSD port
Hi Jeff, as far as Im aware... if you donate to the project they will source hardware as the project sees fit.. if there is an M1 in want.html (where a developer is looking for one to make an initial POC before the project considers it viable to spend resources... it I would be happy to contribute... for that purpose .. I dont think anyone has anything specific against apple. per sya.. there are objections to proprietary firmware... and binary blobs... and this makes development of OpenSource Systems even harder than it already is... but yes tthe M1 looks awesome it will be interesting to see if they open it up (a little) ... but it is an arm chip ... so perhaps testing and providing open arm hardware would help the project more... check out want.html all of these are my own observations as a user over the years and im not a developer in OpenBSD Thanks Tom SMyth On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 at 22:11, Jeff Joshua Rollin wrote: > > > > Forwarded Message > Subject: Fwd: PayPal pool for developer M1 Mac mini for OpenBSD port > Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2020 21:56:51 + > From: Jeff Joshua Rollin > > > > > > Oops, forgot to reply to the list. Sorry for the duplicate, Mihai. > > > On 03/12/2020 01:18, Mihai Popescu wrote: > > I have only good wishes for the project, but I still don't get one thing: > > why do some people start to behave oddly whenever Apple comes into > > discussion. > > They are doing a proprietary thing, closed as hell, no documentation > > and so > > on. Why is this impulse to write code for such a thing. Just asking ... > > Apple make great products. My iMac, which is nearly ten years old, runs > without problems even today (try that with Windows). iPads and iPhones > have much better lifetimes than Android devices - we'll see if the > increasing number of devices running "real Linux" make a dent in the > market, but either way there are AFAIK no phones using any of the BSDs > (unless you count macOS/iOS, which for these purposes I don't) anyway. > > Other than the fact that the platform is proprietary, the only other > thing that annoys me about Macs, and always has, is their half-arsed > attempt at a British keyboard, which unless it's changed since my iMac > was manufactured still puts @ and " in the wrong places for Brits - > exactly the opposite places on a US keyboard. (Even Commodore, infamous > in its day for reliability problems and which bought the Amiga company > in what no less august an institution than Amiga Format magazine called > "a rare fit of insight," managed that one.) Fortunately, if you also use > Linux/UNIX, the problem of switching between keyboards with @ and " in > 'the wrong place' is easily solved for X11 by selecting a Mac UK > keyboard in the software settings even on a PC. (They did stubbornly > stick with that crap butterfly keyboard for four years, for reasons > presumably best known to themselves, but luckily that era also seems to > be over, and I didn't bother buying one during that time, for that and > other reasons.) > > As for the proprietaryness, other than the fact that it's a nice new > hardware architecture as other people have mentioned, pretty much every > other architecture OpenBSD, NetBSD and Linux has ever run on (Amiga, Sun > and VAX, for example) is/was proprietary. And that's without considering > the closed peripherals (without which OpenBSD wouldn't have to eschew > NDAs) or the BMC on a Wintel - heaven knows what that thing really gets > up to. > > My £0.02 > > Jeff. > > -- Kindest regards, Tom Smyth.
Re: PayPal pool for developer M1 Mac mini for OpenBSD port
This really has shown how much interest there is in having OpenBSD running on those machines. Still, we would all not be here without the OpenBSD project itself. Not being able to host hackathons due to COVID-19 leaves an impact, and I hope that soon(TM) we'll be able to get back together to shut up and hack. I'm sure you all love using OpenBSD and hacking on OpenBSD as much as I do, so to help OpenBSD run infrastructure, organize hackathons and to flourish even more, please consider donating! https://www.openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html https://www.openbsd.org/donations.html Also a shoutout to marcan, who'll be doing a lot of reverse engineering on the M1. He's pretty good, and I'm supporting his project by being a patron. I'm looking forward to his work, because of all the people out there who can do it, he's definitely one of them. https://www.patreon.com/marcan Patrick Am Thu, Dec 03, 2020 at 02:33:34PM -0700 schrieb Ben Goren: > Oh, wow — it hasn’t even been a full day since I sent this out...and already > enough of you have chipped in enough to buy not just a single M1 system for > Patrick, but also a second one for his partner in crime, Mark Kettenis. > > Thank you to all! This show of generosity and support and excitement is most > welcome. (And, frankly, a bit overwhelming.) > > If anybody reading this still wishes to donate to the cause, despite the > immediate needs being met, the money will be put to good use. There are other > developers who will eventually need their own hardware, and there are always > other sorts of expenses related to development. Feel free to chip in at > Patrick’s original link: > > https://www.paypal.com/pools/c/8uPSkfNJMp > > ...or, of course, to the OpenBSD general fund (which can *ALWAYS* use > donations): > > https://www.openbsd.org/donations.html > > Thanks again, everybody! > > b& > > > On Dec 2, 2020, at 2:59 PM, Ben Goren wrote: > > Greetings, all! > > > > Patrick Wildt has set up a PayPal pool to raise funds to purchase an M1 Mac > > mini so he can start porting OpenBSD to the platform. If you’d like to be > > able to run OpenBSD on an M1 system, now would be a great time to throw > > some pennies his way. > > > > The donation link: https://paypal.me/pools/c/8uPSkfNJMp > > > > Read below for an idea of what one might expect if we can get a machine > > into Patrick’s hands. > > > > Cheers, > > > > b& > > > > Patrick wrote: > > > >> Yes, kettenis@ and me are the two ones doing the major work on porting > >> to new devices. Not sure if kettenis@ is interested, but I can ask him. > >> I definitely am, a Mac Mini as a dedicated machine to do stuff with and > >> not care about what is installed would really help. > >> > >> Marcan has started a crowdfunding on Patreon. He's a really capable > >> person, and he'll definitely lay a lot of groundwork needed for porting > >> OpenBSD to the platform. He apparenetly will also do his work in a > >> dual-licensed fashion, so the BSDs will easily profit from it. > >> > >> So, the first steps are basically to follow Marcan's work and use all > >> that information and code to port OpenBSD as well. > >> > >> This *will* take some time, because essentially there are only the > >> binary drivers, but it's doable and I think with a bit of patience > >> we will have OpenBSD running on the M1 as well. > >> > >> Biggest hurdle, as always, will be support for graphics acceleration.
Fwd: Fwd: PayPal pool for developer M1 Mac mini for OpenBSD port
Forwarded Message Subject:Fwd: PayPal pool for developer M1 Mac mini for OpenBSD port Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2020 21:56:51 + From: Jeff Joshua Rollin Oops, forgot to reply to the list. Sorry for the duplicate, Mihai. On 03/12/2020 01:18, Mihai Popescu wrote: I have only good wishes for the project, but I still don't get one thing: why do some people start to behave oddly whenever Apple comes into discussion. They are doing a proprietary thing, closed as hell, no documentation and so on. Why is this impulse to write code for such a thing. Just asking ... Apple make great products. My iMac, which is nearly ten years old, runs without problems even today (try that with Windows). iPads and iPhones have much better lifetimes than Android devices - we'll see if the increasing number of devices running "real Linux" make a dent in the market, but either way there are AFAIK no phones using any of the BSDs (unless you count macOS/iOS, which for these purposes I don't) anyway. Other than the fact that the platform is proprietary, the only other thing that annoys me about Macs, and always has, is their half-arsed attempt at a British keyboard, which unless it's changed since my iMac was manufactured still puts @ and " in the wrong places for Brits - exactly the opposite places on a US keyboard. (Even Commodore, infamous in its day for reliability problems and which bought the Amiga company in what no less august an institution than Amiga Format magazine called "a rare fit of insight," managed that one.) Fortunately, if you also use Linux/UNIX, the problem of switching between keyboards with @ and " in 'the wrong place' is easily solved for X11 by selecting a Mac UK keyboard in the software settings even on a PC. (They did stubbornly stick with that crap butterfly keyboard for four years, for reasons presumably best known to themselves, but luckily that era also seems to be over, and I didn't bother buying one during that time, for that and other reasons.) As for the proprietaryness, other than the fact that it's a nice new hardware architecture as other people have mentioned, pretty much every other architecture OpenBSD, NetBSD and Linux has ever run on (Amiga, Sun and VAX, for example) is/was proprietary. And that's without considering the closed peripherals (without which OpenBSD wouldn't have to eschew NDAs) or the BMC on a Wintel - heaven knows what that thing really gets up to. My £0.02 Jeff.
Re: PayPal pool for developer M1 Mac mini for OpenBSD port
Oh, wow — it hasn’t even been a full day since I sent this out...and already enough of you have chipped in enough to buy not just a single M1 system for Patrick, but also a second one for his partner in crime, Mark Kettenis. Thank you to all! This show of generosity and support and excitement is most welcome. (And, frankly, a bit overwhelming.) If anybody reading this still wishes to donate to the cause, despite the immediate needs being met, the money will be put to good use. There are other developers who will eventually need their own hardware, and there are always other sorts of expenses related to development. Feel free to chip in at Patrick’s original link: https://www.paypal.com/pools/c/8uPSkfNJMp ...or, of course, to the OpenBSD general fund (which can *ALWAYS* use donations): https://www.openbsd.org/donations.html Thanks again, everybody! b& > On Dec 2, 2020, at 2:59 PM, Ben Goren wrote: > Greetings, all! > > Patrick Wildt has set up a PayPal pool to raise funds to purchase an M1 Mac > mini so he can start porting OpenBSD to the platform. If you’d like to be > able to run OpenBSD on an M1 system, now would be a great time to throw some > pennies his way. > > The donation link: https://paypal.me/pools/c/8uPSkfNJMp > > Read below for an idea of what one might expect if we can get a machine into > Patrick’s hands. > > Cheers, > > b& > > Patrick wrote: > >> Yes, kettenis@ and me are the two ones doing the major work on porting >> to new devices. Not sure if kettenis@ is interested, but I can ask him. >> I definitely am, a Mac Mini as a dedicated machine to do stuff with and >> not care about what is installed would really help. >> >> Marcan has started a crowdfunding on Patreon. He's a really capable >> person, and he'll definitely lay a lot of groundwork needed for porting >> OpenBSD to the platform. He apparenetly will also do his work in a >> dual-licensed fashion, so the BSDs will easily profit from it. >> >> So, the first steps are basically to follow Marcan's work and use all >> that information and code to port OpenBSD as well. >> >> This *will* take some time, because essentially there are only the >> binary drivers, but it's doable and I think with a bit of patience >> we will have OpenBSD running on the M1 as well. >> >> Biggest hurdle, as always, will be support for graphics acceleration.
Re: PayPal pool for developer M1 Mac mini for OpenBSD port
Op do 3 dec. 2020 om 11:28 schreef Stuart Henderson : > > On 2020-12-03, Janne Johansson wrote: > > Den tors 3 dec. 2020 kl 02:21 skrev Mihai Popescu : > > > >> I have only good wishes for the project, but I still don't get one thing: > >> why do some people start to behave oddly whenever Apple comes into > >> discussion. > >> > > > > It could also be that if it becomes operable, it is quite a useful machine, > > whereas sticking to Pine64 experiment boards and FruityPi clones does quite > > limit the usefulness even if they are all aarch64s. > > That, plus it's a challenge. Some people do sudoku or cryptic crosswords, > some play musical instruments, some port OS to new hardware. And some do > several of the above (and more). We as community could help to make that possible, I'm wondering how many machines would be needed to make it work. -- “We spend the first twelve months of our children's lives teaching them to walk and talk and the next twelve telling them to sit down and shut up.”
Re: PayPal pool for developer M1 Mac mini for OpenBSD port
All right, let me do it. god damn. Caipenghui 于 2020年12月3日 GMT+08:00 下午6:26:24, Stuart Henderson 写到: >On 2020-12-03, Janne Johansson wrote: >> Den tors 3 dec. 2020 kl 02:21 skrev Mihai Popescu : >> >>> I have only good wishes for the project, but I still don't get one >thing: >>> why do some people start to behave oddly whenever Apple comes into >>> discussion. >>> >> >> It could also be that if it becomes operable, it is quite a useful >machine, >> whereas sticking to Pine64 experiment boards and FruityPi clones does >quite >> limit the usefulness even if they are all aarch64s. > >That, plus it's a challenge. Some people do sudoku or cryptic >crosswords, >some play musical instruments, some port OS to new hardware. And some >do >several of the above (and more).
Re: PayPal pool for developer M1 Mac mini for OpenBSD port
On 2020-12-03, Janne Johansson wrote: > Den tors 3 dec. 2020 kl 02:21 skrev Mihai Popescu : > >> I have only good wishes for the project, but I still don't get one thing: >> why do some people start to behave oddly whenever Apple comes into >> discussion. >> > > It could also be that if it becomes operable, it is quite a useful machine, > whereas sticking to Pine64 experiment boards and FruityPi clones does quite > limit the usefulness even if they are all aarch64s. That, plus it's a challenge. Some people do sudoku or cryptic crosswords, some play musical instruments, some port OS to new hardware. And some do several of the above (and more).
Re: PayPal pool for developer M1 Mac mini for OpenBSD port
Den tors 3 dec. 2020 kl 02:21 skrev Mihai Popescu : > I have only good wishes for the project, but I still don't get one thing: > why do some people start to behave oddly whenever Apple comes into > discussion. > It could also be that if it becomes operable, it is quite a useful machine, whereas sticking to Pine64 experiment boards and FruityPi clones does quite limit the usefulness even if they are all aarch64s. -- May the most significant bit of your life be positive.
Re: PayPal pool for developer M1 Mac mini for OpenBSD port
On Thu, Dec 03, 2020 at 03:18:54AM +0200, Mihai Popescu wrote: > I have only good wishes for the project, but I still don't get one thing: > why do some people start to behave oddly whenever Apple comes into > discussion. > They are doing a proprietary thing, closed as hell, no documentation and so > on. Why is this impulse to write code for such a thing. Just asking ... It's a new interesting ARM platform with very good performance. Yes, it is closed but it's also kind of a nice challenge to overcome that hurdle. So mixed feelings about that part. -Otto
Re: PayPal pool for developer M1 Mac mini for OpenBSD port
I think it's going to start all over again, transplanting takes a lot of time, and there are too many unknowns. Caipenghui 于 2020年12月3日 GMT+08:00 上午9:18:54, Mihai Popescu 写到: >I have only good wishes for the project, but I still don't get one >thing: >why do some people start to behave oddly whenever Apple comes into >discussion. >They are doing a proprietary thing, closed as hell, no documentation >and so >on. Why is this impulse to write code for such a thing. Just asking ...
Re: PayPal pool for developer M1 Mac mini for OpenBSD port
I have only good wishes for the project, but I still don't get one thing: why do some people start to behave oddly whenever Apple comes into discussion. They are doing a proprietary thing, closed as hell, no documentation and so on. Why is this impulse to write code for such a thing. Just asking ...
PayPal pool for developer M1 Mac mini for OpenBSD port
Greetings, all! Patrick Wildt has set up a PayPal pool to raise funds to purchase an M1 Mac mini so he can start porting OpenBSD to the platform. If you’d like to be able to run OpenBSD on an M1 system, now would be a great time to throw some pennies his way. The donation link: https://paypal.me/pools/c/8uPSkfNJMp Read below for an idea of what one might expect if we can get a machine into Patrick’s hands. Cheers, b& Patrick wrote: > Yes, kettenis@ and me are the two ones doing the major work on porting > to new devices. Not sure if kettenis@ is interested, but I can ask him. > I definitely am, a Mac Mini as a dedicated machine to do stuff with and > not care about what is installed would really help. > > Marcan has started a crowdfunding on Patreon. He's a really capable > person, and he'll definitely lay a lot of groundwork needed for porting > OpenBSD to the platform. He apparenetly will also do his work in a > dual-licensed fashion, so the BSDs will easily profit from it. > > So, the first steps are basically to follow Marcan's work and use all > that information and code to port OpenBSD as well. > > This *will* take some time, because essentially there are only the > binary drivers, but it's doable and I think with a bit of patience > we will have OpenBSD running on the M1 as well. > > Biggest hurdle, as always, will be support for graphics acceleration.
