Re: RAM seen vs. RAM available HP ML 570 G2
> OpenBSD does not have any PAE support. > > The fact that some bits are in the source tree doesn't have much to do > with it. See it as hints for a developer who wants to pick up the PAE > work. But since most i386 machines with >4G are amd64-capable and this > not being something easy I don't see that happening. > > -- > Henning Brauer, h...@bsws.de, henn...@openbsd.org > BS Web Services, http://bsws.de, Full-Service ISP > Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services. Dedicated Servers, Root to Fully > Managed > Henning Brauer Consulting, http://henningbrauer.com/ > > Thank you again to all who replied on and off list. The off list replies indicated the same thing. I'm glad Henning replied on list. Hopefully this will help others searching the archives for information about PAE on OpenBSD in future. Again, thank you! Stefan Johnson
Re: RAM seen vs. RAM available HP ML 570 G2
* Stefan Johnson [2011-12-07 20:53]: > I want to thank everyone that replied. I have gone to google for > information about openbsd, i386, pae, and similar. > I see that there was a talk done back in 2006 or so about PAE on i386. I > see some old old old threads about > it working, not working, working again, not working again, breaking amd64 > and so on. I see several mentions of > "just turn on the option" but "the option" they mention isn't listed in > "man 4 options" (I686_PAE) and I see nothing > about PAE when I do a "config -e -o /bsd.pae /bsd.mp" to try to enable this > with config. I do see the file "pmapae.c" > in the src folder, but I have no idea how to utilize it since I've not > build a custom kernel since I first picked up > OpenBSD (2.9) many years ago. OpenBSD does not have any PAE support. The fact that some bits are in the source tree doesn't have much to do with it. See it as hints for a developer who wants to pick up the PAE work. But since most i386 machines with >4G are amd64-capable and this not being something easy I don't see that happening. -- Henning Brauer, h...@bsws.de, henn...@openbsd.org BS Web Services, http://bsws.de, Full-Service ISP Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services. Dedicated Servers, Root to Fully Managed Henning Brauer Consulting, http://henningbrauer.com/
Re: RAM seen vs. RAM available HP ML 570 G2
it's not a case of setting options or a custom kernel, it involves writing code (rather delicate kernel code). on this particular hardware, you are basically either stuck with 4GB or running another OS. On 2011-12-07, Stefan Johnson wrote: > I want to thank everyone that replied. I have gone to google for > information about openbsd, i386, pae, and similar. > I see that there was a talk done back in 2006 or so about PAE on i386. I > see some old old old threads about > it working, not working, working again, not working again, breaking amd64 > and so on. I see several mentions of > "just turn on the option" but "the option" they mention isn't listed in > "man 4 options" (I686_PAE) and I see nothing > about PAE when I do a "config -e -o /bsd.pae /bsd.mp" to try to enable this > with config. I do see the file "pmapae.c" > in the src folder, but I have no idea how to utilize it since I've not > build a custom kernel since I first picked up > OpenBSD (2.9) many years ago. I've done the steps to use config to create > the Makefile and so on using GENERIC.MP > as the base. I know I should copy that and add an option and do this > again, but since "man 4 options" doesn't show > the appropriate option, can someone who has actually gotten this to work > help me out with how to proceed from here? > > Sorry, if this can't be done. Some people were saying it can't, and some > were saying it can, but you need to use > i386 PAE to do it. Others said use amd64 but these are 32bit processors, > so I didn't think amd64 would work. This > makes me think that the correct answer is "i386 PAE" but I'm having trouble > finding how to do that. > > Thanks again for all that replied, and I do understand that if this > involves building a custom kernel to turn on the option > I forfeit support under that kernel :) > > Stefan Johnson
Re: RAM seen vs. RAM available HP ML 570 G2
I want to thank everyone that replied. I have gone to google for information about openbsd, i386, pae, and similar. I see that there was a talk done back in 2006 or so about PAE on i386. I see some old old old threads about it working, not working, working again, not working again, breaking amd64 and so on. I see several mentions of "just turn on the option" but "the option" they mention isn't listed in "man 4 options" (I686_PAE) and I see nothing about PAE when I do a "config -e -o /bsd.pae /bsd.mp" to try to enable this with config. I do see the file "pmapae.c" in the src folder, but I have no idea how to utilize it since I've not build a custom kernel since I first picked up OpenBSD (2.9) many years ago. I've done the steps to use config to create the Makefile and so on using GENERIC.MP as the base. I know I should copy that and add an option and do this again, but since "man 4 options" doesn't show the appropriate option, can someone who has actually gotten this to work help me out with how to proceed from here? Sorry, if this can't be done. Some people were saying it can't, and some were saying it can, but you need to use i386 PAE to do it. Others said use amd64 but these are 32bit processors, so I didn't think amd64 would work. This makes me think that the correct answer is "i386 PAE" but I'm having trouble finding how to do that. Thanks again for all that replied, and I do understand that if this involves building a custom kernel to turn on the option I forfeit support under that kernel :) Stefan Johnson
Re: RAM seen vs. RAM available HP ML 570 G2
On Wed, Dec 07, 2011 at 04:25:15PM +, Kevin Chadwick wrote: > On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 13:45:56 -0200 > Daniel Bolgheroni wrote: > > > Modern x86 processors support PAE (Physical Address Extension) in which > > a 32-bit processor can address more than 32-bit physical addresses. But > > not without the OS supporting it. > > Wouldn't that make ROP attacks more difficult too? Though I guess the > effort would be a waste of time when you can move to 64bit anyway. I don't think so. The PAE-aware kernel will manage/map this extra physical addresses, but as noted above, processes still only see 4 GB. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Re: RAM seen vs. RAM available HP ML 570 G2
On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 13:45:56 -0200 Daniel Bolgheroni wrote: > Modern x86 processors support PAE (Physical Address Extension) in which > a 32-bit processor can address more than 32-bit physical addresses. But > not without the OS supporting it. Wouldn't that make ROP attacks more difficult too? Though I guess the effort would be a waste of time when you can move to 64bit anyway.
Re: RAM seen vs. RAM available HP ML 570 G2
On Wed, Dec 07, 2011 at 04:05:07PM +0100, Nomen Nescio wrote: > > Yes, exactly. OpenBSD supports >4GB RAM only on 64-bit architectures. > > Isn't that a limitation of Intel x32 rather than an OpenBSD limitation? Modern x86 processors support PAE (Physical Address Extension) in which a 32-bit processor can address more than 32-bit physical addresses. But not without the OS supporting it. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Re: RAM seen vs. RAM available HP ML 570 G2
On Dec 7, 2011, at 10:05 AM, Nomen Nescio wrote: >> Yes, exactly. OpenBSD supports >4GB RAM only on 64-bit architectures. > > Isn't that a limitation of Intel x32 rather than an OpenBSD limitation? Yes and no; higher-end Intel 32-bit parts from the Pentium Pro upward supported Physical Address Extension, which (IIRC) gave 36 bits of physical address space (similar to how you could have 18 or 22 bits of address space on a 16-bit PDP-11 through the magic of memory mapping). Your virtual addresses are limited to 32 bits still, so any given process could only use 4 GB, but the total amount of RAM in the system could be larger. - Dave
Re: RAM seen vs. RAM available HP ML 570 G2
> Yes, exactly. OpenBSD supports >4GB RAM only on 64-bit architectures. Isn't that a limitation of Intel x32 rather than an OpenBSD limitation?
Re: RAM seen vs. RAM available HP ML 570 G2
On 2011-12-07, Stefan Johnson wrote: > Hello all. Today I replaced OpenSuSE with OpenBSD 5.0 on my HP ML 570 G2 > server. The system includes to memory boards for RAM. One board has 8 gigs, > and the other has 4. The power on self test sees 12 and initializes 12, > but after the server boots, OpenBSD appears to only see 4. I believe this > relates to 32 vs 64 bit, but I'm not positive. Yes, exactly. OpenBSD supports >4GB RAM only on 64-bit architectures. > The FAQ mentions a trick for utilizing more RAM when all of the RAM isn't > seen using boot.conf at this link: > http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#InstProb That is not relevant to your situation.
Re: RAM seen vs. RAM available HP ML 570 G2
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Stefan Johnson
wrote:
> Hello all. B Today I replaced OpenSuSE with OpenBSD 5.0 on my HP ML 570 G2
> server.
well, you should have searched for "openbsd and PAE" :)
i don't think they're going to bother at this point, but don't take my
word for it
> The system includes to memory boards for RAM. B One board has 8 gigs, and
> the other has 4.
> The power on self test sees 12 and initializes 12, but after the server
> boots, OpenBSD appears
> to only see 4. B I believe this relates to 32 vs 64 bit, but I'm not
> positive.
>
> The version I installed was i386, not amd64. B The processors are Xeon MP
> 2.2Ghz which only have
> 32 bit instruction sets, which is why I chose i386. B Here is a link to the
> processor specs that
> show this:
>
http://ark.intel.com/products/27300/Intel-Xeon-Processor-2_20-GHz-2M-Cache-40
0-MHz-FSB
>
> The FAQ mentions a trick for utilizing more RAM when all of the RAM isn't
> seen using boot.conf
> at this link:
> http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#InstProb
> However, this is for such a small amount of RAM in the given example, that
> I'm not sure this would
> work for me. B Can anyone confirm that I'm pretty much stuck with only
being
> able to utilize 1/3 of
> the full potential, or whether the above trick might actually work (using
> appropriate size values, of
> course)?
>
> Thanks for any help on this!
>
> Stefan Johnson
>
>
>
> Below is dmesg and sysctl output for my box with the GENERIC MP kernel:
>
> OpenBSD 5.0 (GENERIC.MP) #59: Wed Aug 17 10:19:44 MDT 2011
> B B dera...@i386.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC.MP
> cpu0: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) MP CPU 2.20GHz ("GenuineIntel" 686-class) 2.20 GHz
> cpu0:
>
FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUS
H,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,CNXT-ID,xTPR
> real mem B = 4026036224 (3839MB)
> avail mem = 3950120960 (3767MB)
> mainbus0 at root
> bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+ BIOS, date 12/31/99, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xf,
> SMBIOS rev. 2.3 @ 0xec000 (92 entries)
> bios0: vendor HP version "P32" date 04/26/2005
> bios0: HP ProLiant ML570 G2
> acpi0 at bios0: rev 0
> acpi0: sleep states S0 S4 S5, can't enable ACPI
> mpbios0 at bios0: Intel MP Specification 1.4
> cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor)
> cpu0: apic clock running at 99MHz
> cpu1 at mainbus0: apid 2 (application processor)
> cpu1: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) MP CPU 2.20GHz ("GenuineIntel" 686-class) 2.20 GHz
> cpu1:
>
FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUS
H,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,CNXT-ID,xTPR
> cpu2 at mainbus0: apid 4 (application processor)
> cpu2: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) MP CPU 2.20GHz ("GenuineIntel" 686-class) 2.20 GHz
> cpu2:
>
FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUS
H,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,CNXT-ID,xTPR
> cpu3 at mainbus0: apid 6 (application processor)
> cpu3: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) MP CPU 2.20GHz ("GenuineIntel" 686-class) 2.20 GHz
> cpu3:
>
FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUS
H,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,CNXT-ID,xTPR
> mpbios0: bus 0 is type PCI
> mpbios0: bus 1 is type PCI
> mpbios0: bus 5 is type PCI
> mpbios0: bus 9 is type PCI
> mpbios0: bus 13 is type PCI
> mpbios0: bus 16 is type ISA
> ioapic0 at mainbus0: apid 8 pa 0xfec0, version 11, 16 pins
> ioapic1 at mainbus0: apid 9 pa 0xfec01000, version 11, 16 pins
> ioapic2 at mainbus0: apid 10 pa 0xfec02000, version 11, 16 pins
> ioapic3 at mainbus0: apid 11 pa 0xfec03000, version 11, 16 pins
> bios0: ROM list: 0xc/0x8000 0xc8000/0x4000! 0xee000/0x2000!
> pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (bios)
> pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 "ServerWorks CMIC-HE" rev 0x22
> pchb1 at pci0 dev 0 function 1 "ServerWorks CMIC-HE" rev 0x00
> pci1 at pchb1 bus 1
> ppb0 at pci1 dev 2 function 0 "IBM 133 PCIX-PCIX" rev 0x03
> pci2 at ppb0 bus 2
> ciss0 at pci2 dev 4 function 0 "Compaq Smart Array 64xx" rev 0x01: apic 8
> int 15
> ciss0: 3 LDs, HW rev 1, FW 2.84/2.84, 64bit fifo
> scsibus0 at ciss0: 3 targets
> sd0 at scsibus0 targ 0 lun 0: SCSI2 0/direct
> fixed
> sd0: 69459MB, 512 bytes/sector, 142253280 sectors
> sd1 at scsibus0 targ 1 lun 0: SCSI2 0/direct
> fixed
> sd1: 70001MB, 512 bytes/sector, 143363040 sectors
> sd2 at scsibus0 targ 2 lun 0: SCSI2 0/direct
> fixed
> sd2: 140006MB, 512 bytes/sector, 286734240 sectors
> "Compaq PCI Hotplug" rev 0x14 at pci1 dev 30 function 0 not configured
> pchb2 at pci0 dev 0 function 2 "ServerWorks CMIC-HE" rev 0x00
> pci3 at pchb2 bus 9
> "Creative Labs SoundBlaster Audigy LS" rev 0x00 at pci3 dev 1 function 0
> not configured
> pchb3 at pci0 dev 0 function 3 "ServerWorks CMIC-HE" rev 0x00
> "Compaq Netelligent ASMC" rev 0x00 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 not configured
> fxp0 at pci0 dev 4 function 0 "Intel 8255x" rev 0x08, i82559: apic 8 int
> 10, address 00:12:79:cc:74:78
> inphy0 at fxp0 phy 1: i82555 10/100 PHY, rev. 4
> piixpm0 at pci0 dev 15
RAM seen vs. RAM available HP ML 570 G2
Hello all. Today I replaced OpenSuSE with OpenBSD 5.0 on my HP ML 570 G2
server.
The system includes to memory boards for RAM. One board has 8 gigs, and
the other has 4.
The power on self test sees 12 and initializes 12, but after the server
boots, OpenBSD appears
to only see 4. I believe this relates to 32 vs 64 bit, but I'm not
positive.
The version I installed was i386, not amd64. The processors are Xeon MP
2.2Ghz which only have
32 bit instruction sets, which is why I chose i386. Here is a link to the
processor specs that
show this:
http://ark.intel.com/products/27300/Intel-Xeon-Processor-2_20-GHz-2M-Cache-400-MHz-FSB
The FAQ mentions a trick for utilizing more RAM when all of the RAM isn't
seen using boot.conf
at this link:
http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#InstProb
However, this is for such a small amount of RAM in the given example, that
I'm not sure this would
work for me. Can anyone confirm that I'm pretty much stuck with only being
able to utilize 1/3 of
the full potential, or whether the above trick might actually work (using
appropriate size values, of
course)?
Thanks for any help on this!
Stefan Johnson
Below is dmesg and sysctl output for my box with the GENERIC MP kernel:
OpenBSD 5.0 (GENERIC.MP) #59: Wed Aug 17 10:19:44 MDT 2011
dera...@i386.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC.MP
cpu0: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) MP CPU 2.20GHz ("GenuineIntel" 686-class) 2.20 GHz
cpu0:
FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,CNXT-ID,xTPR
real mem = 4026036224 (3839MB)
avail mem = 3950120960 (3767MB)
mainbus0 at root
bios0 at mainbus0: AT/286+ BIOS, date 12/31/99, BIOS32 rev. 0 @ 0xf,
SMBIOS rev. 2.3 @ 0xec000 (92 entries)
bios0: vendor HP version "P32" date 04/26/2005
bios0: HP ProLiant ML570 G2
acpi0 at bios0: rev 0
acpi0: sleep states S0 S4 S5, can't enable ACPI
mpbios0 at bios0: Intel MP Specification 1.4
cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor)
cpu0: apic clock running at 99MHz
cpu1 at mainbus0: apid 2 (application processor)
cpu1: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) MP CPU 2.20GHz ("GenuineIntel" 686-class) 2.20 GHz
cpu1:
FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,CNXT-ID,xTPR
cpu2 at mainbus0: apid 4 (application processor)
cpu2: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) MP CPU 2.20GHz ("GenuineIntel" 686-class) 2.20 GHz
cpu2:
FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,CNXT-ID,xTPR
cpu3 at mainbus0: apid 6 (application processor)
cpu3: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) MP CPU 2.20GHz ("GenuineIntel" 686-class) 2.20 GHz
cpu3:
FPU,V86,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,CNXT-ID,xTPR
mpbios0: bus 0 is type PCI
mpbios0: bus 1 is type PCI
mpbios0: bus 5 is type PCI
mpbios0: bus 9 is type PCI
mpbios0: bus 13 is type PCI
mpbios0: bus 16 is type ISA
ioapic0 at mainbus0: apid 8 pa 0xfec0, version 11, 16 pins
ioapic1 at mainbus0: apid 9 pa 0xfec01000, version 11, 16 pins
ioapic2 at mainbus0: apid 10 pa 0xfec02000, version 11, 16 pins
ioapic3 at mainbus0: apid 11 pa 0xfec03000, version 11, 16 pins
bios0: ROM list: 0xc/0x8000 0xc8000/0x4000! 0xee000/0x2000!
pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0: configuration mode 1 (bios)
pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 "ServerWorks CMIC-HE" rev 0x22
pchb1 at pci0 dev 0 function 1 "ServerWorks CMIC-HE" rev 0x00
pci1 at pchb1 bus 1
ppb0 at pci1 dev 2 function 0 "IBM 133 PCIX-PCIX" rev 0x03
pci2 at ppb0 bus 2
ciss0 at pci2 dev 4 function 0 "Compaq Smart Array 64xx" rev 0x01: apic 8
int 15
ciss0: 3 LDs, HW rev 1, FW 2.84/2.84, 64bit fifo
scsibus0 at ciss0: 3 targets
sd0 at scsibus0 targ 0 lun 0: SCSI2 0/direct
fixed
sd0: 69459MB, 512 bytes/sector, 142253280 sectors
sd1 at scsibus0 targ 1 lun 0: SCSI2 0/direct
fixed
sd1: 70001MB, 512 bytes/sector, 143363040 sectors
sd2 at scsibus0 targ 2 lun 0: SCSI2 0/direct
fixed
sd2: 140006MB, 512 bytes/sector, 286734240 sectors
"Compaq PCI Hotplug" rev 0x14 at pci1 dev 30 function 0 not configured
pchb2 at pci0 dev 0 function 2 "ServerWorks CMIC-HE" rev 0x00
pci3 at pchb2 bus 9
"Creative Labs SoundBlaster Audigy LS" rev 0x00 at pci3 dev 1 function 0
not configured
pchb3 at pci0 dev 0 function 3 "ServerWorks CMIC-HE" rev 0x00
"Compaq Netelligent ASMC" rev 0x00 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 not configured
fxp0 at pci0 dev 4 function 0 "Intel 8255x" rev 0x08, i82559: apic 8 int
10, address 00:12:79:cc:74:78
inphy0 at fxp0 phy 1: i82555 10/100 PHY, rev. 4
piixpm0 at pci0 dev 15 function 0 "ServerWorks CSB5" rev 0x93: polling
iic0 at piixpm0
pciide0 at pci0 dev 15 function 1 "ServerWorks CSB5 IDE" rev 0x93: DMA
atapiscsi0 at pciide0 channel 0 drive 0
scsibus1 at atapiscsi0: 2 targets
cd0 at scsibus1 targ 0 lun 0: ATAPI
5/cdrom removable
cd0(pciide0:0:0): using PIO mode 4, DMA mode 2, Ultra-DMA mode 2
pciide0: no compatibility interrupt for use by channel 1
pchb4 at pci0 dev 15 functio
