Re: Samsung HD License Issue
On 04.05-08:17, Jochem Kossen wrote: [ ... ] > > today i bought a Samsung Laptop Drive, 160GB, Model Number is HM160HC. > > It came in a anti-static plastic bag together with a little leaflet. > > Usually i don't read those, but today i did, and came across the > > following paragraph: > > > > "Hybrid Disk Drive products are licensed for use only on devices that > > deploy the Windows VISTA Operating System as their principal operating > > System. If you or any other party install(s) an operating system on the > > computing device that is not Windows Vista, the use of this Hybrid Disk > > Drive may require an additional license from Microsoft. > > For further information, please contact Microsoft." [ ... ] > It appeared more people were confused by the text, and both Microsoft > and Samsung have explained that the terms mean, that if you use a > different operating system than Windows with this drive, you need to > get the appropriate license to use said different operating system. If > you want to use an operating system owned by Microsoft with it, you > have to get a license from them; if the operating system is not owned > by Microsoft, you don't need to get a license from Microsoft. this is a legal two-step and i recommend that you refuse to be satisfied with the "clarification" by Samsung and Microsoft and contact the appropriate consumer bodies within your duristictions to have this matter lodged with them (assuming the drive is sold under those terms within your country).
Re: Samsung HD License Issue
On Mon, 4 May 2009, David Vasek wrote: > On Mon, 4 May 2009, Jochem Kossen wrote: > > > It appeared more people were confused by the text, and both Microsoft > > and Samsung have explained that the terms mean, that if you use a > > different operating system than Windows with this drive, you need to > > get the appropriate license to use said different operating system. > > Possibly, but you need to get the mentioned license _from Microsoft_, as is > written in the license: "...may require an additional license from Microsoft." > > > > "Hybrid Disk Drive products are licensed for use only on devices that > > > deploy the Windows VISTA Operating System as their principal operating > > > System. If you or any other party install(s) an operating system on the > > > computing device that is not Windows Vista, the use of this Hybrid Disk > > > Drive may require an additional license from Microsoft. For further > > > information, please contact Microsoft." > > It seems we are no longer buying hardware products, we are only buying > permissions to use them - almost everything contains some form of firmware or > microcode now. You never _own_ that code built-in in your hardware, you are > only a licensee, thus you are bound by the license to use the firmware. Crazy, > really crazy world! I hope that such licenses are illegal, illegal in every > country. Maybe it's saying that if you use the Hybrid feature of the hardware, you _may_ require an additional license, i.e. if you flash the non-volatile memory. Weird. This is why I love laws, lawyers, etc. They just make these things possible. -- Daniel Bolgheroni FEI - Faculdade de Engenharia Industrial http://www.dbolgheroni.eng.br/mykey ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) against HTML e-mail X / \ mQGiBEjsKN8RBACIeANsMaUPV5vlbI0B1WGElqhLXdyR941fInJesLFUV+QlJ1Xi qsmmCa2GTiz1SQm4g0N7FxOQeW42x9Iv0kg5vjwkZ7uC1LJDZlVvoThpnk007WYK h19X+fbpQkK1kjWDd7TNiebDdvRcvVFJybSfGsqmrw/qufZ67HffLb9T2wCgx7ml LjrFFlT3+18v6wy0T169DVsD/RU8fOfPwEK4Gc/BkfCB/JjHax2TYitMn9oNylYw VdkuyFoaCEU2GmGP1/R1uT5U3TsKa0vIVBIiDTAOyZKhLgMejNyagKn4PuLcMyqo CCV7uOPCuMsEFmXNDQekLhGpWlSD3vLoqr/mO0T867qZjIuQ9An58VLcX6LSdGtG 6yV7A/0fJ4fC2+RJWLmHPKb8sgNpjByt7NjaumAGVqPPtGu9M6indImBB0HB+S3O 7vM0pf6rzfE69D9zc0ySJJ3tCo/r4TdMrx/tx6wbz/7pyfsIRbsCG+87VxqInnEP cg0zlN749NwBouPa2UTYMxXsJuv0OmX3W7EZ3vgL9lQ1BWzZn7QRRGFuaWVsIEJv bGdoZXJvbmmIYAQTEQIAIAUCSOwo3wIbAwYLCQgHAwIEFQIIAwQWAgMBAh4BAheA AAoJEP423E9NZH/MPBMAmgNfL1njMlTBhhxiDdKsd6BLlcizAKCmVIP0jDarapBp j7FUQgJ3npAvS7kBDQRI7CjfEAQAl6exFKqLkBCjr8s5XoadLpvSFE5faif5l6q6 HcfKP2FFtUfSj46cvCLVYzip78KJjxGkksS36rrrKfgHH7z+2Oem+G5drtvMWmeA 14tFvJGWHKL1WR5P1fe593aaw8CHmiQxSkENyVN+Q8FvqUoZ5tPtGqVzlPmflU5K bcJphs8AAwUD/1CyyvbvMWNDPJLqZI1TiEkg3+2Kc67CFXhoS4DYCgObjnhA7GOO BB0PXHPMhtwqIhCQA0+u2YOstreW1UT+zY3ynQbc7bnHmCdRzEmCRLSqe44+nWkY QXD5tEOuMtAjJDQm7wQxRXA9EQouz4CLxz7uhEa5MJjoGdNkIqzDc/tCiEkEGBEC AAkFAkjsKN8CGwwACgkQ/jbcT01kf8yHNQCfV+eHlKqAwdPfnM9IxGiKotVXeEYA oKr5TGPxFG04Q3QnwX4+Acu78Svu =mJV8 -END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-
Re: Samsung HD License Issue
hmm, on Mon, May 04, 2009 at 10:43:43AM +0800, David Schulz said that > "Hybrid Disk Drive products are licensed for use only on devices that > deploy the Windows VISTA Operating System as their principal operating > System. If you or any other party install(s) an operating system on the > computing device that is not Windows Vista, the use of this Hybrid Disk > Drive may require an additional license from Microsoft. > For further information, please contact Microsoft." maybe this is the next step up from the "designed for vista" sticker? but even though iirc microsoft was one of the developing parties for this technology, a license such as this would not just create tromendous bad press but would also lock out all the other MS operating systems... it is just plain weird. as far as i know MS mice and keyboards or other MS 'hardware' do not have licenses like this. it's all about selling. maybe it's a korean -> english translation issue :] those companies sometimes use very impressive engrish :] -f -- i'm not overweight, i'm undertall! -- garfield
Re: Samsung HD License Issue
On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 5:43 AM, David Schulz wrote: > "Hybrid Disk Drive products are licensed for use only on devices that deploy > the Windows VISTA Operating System as their principal operating System. If > you or any other party install(s) an operating system on the computing > device that is not Windows Vista, the use of this Hybrid Disk Drive may > require an additional license from Microsoft. > For further information, please contact Microsoft." that's surely is some kind of primo BS. how can be this required in case I buy a storage, that complies with the standards (e.g. SATA). yeah they may patent some BS like flash in the disk drive (what kind of rocket-science idea it is!) and its usage to boot an os, but how can they restrict a simple usage of the storage through the standard interface? what if i don't install an os onto it and just use it as storage?
Re: Samsung HD License Issue
On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Otto Moerbeek wrote: > On Mon, May 04, 2009 at 11:46:51AM +0200, David Vasek wrote: >> Possibly, but you need to get the mentioned license _from Microsoft_, as >> is written in the license: "...may require an additional license from >> Microsoft." > > the operative word being "may". Of course confusing as hell. > > As already said, this whole idea is evil. I wonder which twisted > reasoning is used to put these notes into hardware packages. It is even worse -- from the licensing terms it seems that when someone buys this drive part of the money go to Microsoft. (why an additional license is not required when using Vista?) Cheers, Igor.
Re: Samsung HD License Issue
Hi, On Mon, 04.05.2009 at 12:03:15 +0200, Jochem Kossen wrote: > On Mon, May 04, 2009 at 11:46:51AM +0200, David Vasek wrote: > > Possibly, but you need to get the mentioned license _from Microsoft_, as > > is written in the license: "...may require an additional license from > > Microsoft." > No, the response from EC explicitly mentions that if you don't use an > operating system from Microsoft, you don't need a license from > Microsoft. that may well be, but it doesn't make the text mentioned any better. This kind of wording imho borders extortion. Kind regards, --Toni++
Re: Samsung HD License Issue
On Mon, May 04, 2009 at 11:46:51AM +0200, David Vasek wrote: > On Mon, 4 May 2009, Jochem Kossen wrote: > >> It appeared more people were confused by the text, and both Microsoft >> and Samsung have explained that the terms mean, that if you use a >> different operating system than Windows with this drive, you need to >> get the appropriate license to use said different operating system. > > Possibly, but you need to get the mentioned license _from Microsoft_, as > is written in the license: "...may require an additional license from > Microsoft." the operative word being "may". Of course confusing as hell. As already said, this whole idea is evil. I wonder which twisted reasoning is used to put these notes into hardware packages. -Otto
Re: Samsung HD License Issue
Hi, On Mon, 04.05.2009 at 11:46:51 +0200, David Vasek wrote: > It seems we are no longer buying hardware products, we are only buying > permissions to use them - almost everything contains some form of > firmware or microcode now. You never _own_ that code built-in in your > hardware, you are only a licensee, thus you are bound by the license to > use the firmware. Crazy, really crazy world! I hope that such licenses > are illegal, illegal in every country. I also think that such a license should be illegal, the more so as it didn't say on the outside of the box that this product has hidden restrictions attached (however void they may be for other reasons). I'm also not prepared to accept "permission to use" in lieu of "ownership". Kind regards, --Toni++
Re: Samsung HD License Issue
On Mon, May 04, 2009 at 11:46:51AM +0200, David Vasek wrote: > On Mon, 4 May 2009, Jochem Kossen wrote: > >> It appeared more people were confused by the text, and both Microsoft >> and Samsung have explained that the terms mean, that if you use a >> different operating system than Windows with this drive, you need to >> get the appropriate license to use said different operating system. > > Possibly, but you need to get the mentioned license _from Microsoft_, as > is written in the license: "...may require an additional license from > Microsoft." No, the response from EC explicitly mentions that if you don't use an operating system from Microsoft, you don't need a license from Microsoft.
Re: Samsung HD License Issue
On Mon, 4 May 2009, Jochem Kossen wrote: It appeared more people were confused by the text, and both Microsoft and Samsung have explained that the terms mean, that if you use a different operating system than Windows with this drive, you need to get the appropriate license to use said different operating system. Possibly, but you need to get the mentioned license _from Microsoft_, as is written in the license: "...may require an additional license from Microsoft." "Hybrid Disk Drive products are licensed for use only on devices that deploy the Windows VISTA Operating System as their principal operating System. If you or any other party install(s) an operating system on the computing device that is not Windows Vista, the use of this Hybrid Disk Drive may require an additional license from Microsoft. For further information, please contact Microsoft." It seems we are no longer buying hardware products, we are only buying permissions to use them - almost everything contains some form of firmware or microcode now. You never _own_ that code built-in in your hardware, you are only a licensee, thus you are bound by the license to use the firmware. Crazy, really crazy world! I hope that such licenses are illegal, illegal in every country. Regards, David
Re: Samsung HD License Issue
Daniel Ouellet wrote: > In a few years, I guess Gates will want to license my toilet > paper too for one time use! I think some CEO just got a splendid idea. Next time think before you post something on the internet! # Han
Re: Samsung HD License Issue
Hybrid Disk Drives contain an Area of Flash Memory that help Windows to boot faster. They are mentioned here: I guess will see the "blue drive of death" soon then. (;> Make sure you have 'Epitome' running everywhere so that you protect your data! Men, joke a side if they start to force licenses on hardware for Windows OS now as well, and have the hardware maker do this for specific Microsoft license on their own creation, I guess will need to pick better providers soon. In a few years, I guess Gates will want to license my toilet paper too for one time use!
Re: Samsung HD License Issue
Hi David, A friend of mine bought such a 'hybrid' drive a while ago, and wondered about the rediculous licencing terms as well. He sent a letter to the European Commission antitrust department to question about this. It appeared more people were confused by the text, and both Microsoft and Samsung have explained that the terms mean, that if you use a different operating system than Windows with this drive, you need to get the appropriate license to use said different operating system. If you want to use an operating system owned by Microsoft with it, you have to get a license from them; if the operating system is not owned by Microsoft, you don't need to get a license from Microsoft. Still, the text is highly confusing though. Regards, Jochem On Mon, May 04, 2009 at 10:43:43AM +0800, David Schulz wrote: > Hello there, > > today i bought a Samsung Laptop Drive, 160GB, Model Number is HM160HC. > It came in a anti-static plastic bag together with a little leaflet. > Usually i don't read those, but today i did, and came across the > following paragraph: > > "Hybrid Disk Drive products are licensed for use only on devices that > deploy the Windows VISTA Operating System as their principal operating > System. If you or any other party install(s) an operating system on the > computing device that is not Windows Vista, the use of this Hybrid Disk > Drive may require an additional license from Microsoft. > For further information, please contact Microsoft." > > Hybrid Disk Drives contain an Area of Flash Memory that help Windows to > boot faster. They are mentioned here: > > http://thefutureofthings.com/articles.php?itemId=30/59/ > http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/07/samsungs-hybrid-hard-drive-hhd-released-to-oems/ > http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=264209 > > Now, i checked everywhere, and it seems that my HM160HC Drive is not a > Hybrid Disk Drive, but i am not quite sure. Maybe they throw in the same > little leaflet into all their Drives Packagings. > > Should it not say on the outside Packaging if i am only allowed to > install certain pieces of Software on it, and no others? I would never > buy such a Product if i knew. Its not clear whether this Drive is or is > not affected by that license paragraph after looking on their Website. > > Before, when i went to buy a new Laptop, i would simply check whether > there was enough Support for my favorite OS, but now it seems, i also > must check that the license of certain Components do not bind me to a > certain Operating System. I think they need a Sticker with 'Windows > only' or so, so Consumers see what they buy. > > Anyhow, i thought its interesting, and maybe others should be careful > what they buy in the future, or at least read the little leaflets > carefully and ask the *possibly clueless* shop assistant about the > Products inside the Laptop. Could be that you buy the 'wolf in sheep's > clothing'. > > rgds, > David
Samsung HD License Issue
Hello there, today i bought a Samsung Laptop Drive, 160GB, Model Number is HM160HC. It came in a anti-static plastic bag together with a little leaflet. Usually i don't read those, but today i did, and came across the following paragraph: "Hybrid Disk Drive products are licensed for use only on devices that deploy the Windows VISTA Operating System as their principal operating System. If you or any other party install(s) an operating system on the computing device that is not Windows Vista, the use of this Hybrid Disk Drive may require an additional license from Microsoft. For further information, please contact Microsoft." Hybrid Disk Drives contain an Area of Flash Memory that help Windows to boot faster. They are mentioned here: http://thefutureofthings.com/articles.php?itemId=30/59/ http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/07/samsungs-hybrid-hard-drive-hhd-released-to-oems/ http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=264209 Now, i checked everywhere, and it seems that my HM160HC Drive is not a Hybrid Disk Drive, but i am not quite sure. Maybe they throw in the same little leaflet into all their Drives Packagings. Should it not say on the outside Packaging if i am only allowed to install certain pieces of Software on it, and no others? I would never buy such a Product if i knew. Its not clear whether this Drive is or is not affected by that license paragraph after looking on their Website. Before, when i went to buy a new Laptop, i would simply check whether there was enough Support for my favorite OS, but now it seems, i also must check that the license of certain Components do not bind me to a certain Operating System. I think they need a Sticker with 'Windows only' or so, so Consumers see what they buy. Anyhow, i thought its interesting, and maybe others should be careful what they buy in the future, or at least read the little leaflets carefully and ask the *possibly clueless* shop assistant about the Products inside the Laptop. Could be that you buy the 'wolf in sheep's clothing'. rgds, David
