RE: mod_perl mod_php
all- Interesting topic, to be sure. Although no one touched on the relationship I almost always see between Perl and PHP: Rapid Application Deployment. You can get a massively complex application out to users as a beta much more quickly with PHP (Sorry Perl), additionally capitalizing on the fast ramp-up to make junior developers actually useful. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that was why languages like PHP and Python existed in the first place. I'm using both at work because we're slowly migrating from PHP to Perl. PHP is better than Perl in some cases, I've found. If you're predominantly templating and don't want to futz around with Mason or TT or whatever, PHP will do a fine job. I'm considering changing my stationery to that quote, it is so right on. But there are some good things written in PHP, it's just that there are a WHOLE lot more people writing PHP than Perl (just look at the mailing lists and script archives). Isn't that the Bazaar we open-sourcers dreamed of? A million users, who also happened to be developers? Except that the mailing lists are comparatively useless, point taken. mod_perl is viewed by the unitiated as a Cathedral for all practical purposes, even if it is the One True Language. One final point: everyone else besides developers care about one thing: using a working application. They give no flying expletives whatsoever about what language or platform it is in. Those of you not saying Duh! right now may want to take a moment or two to mull. Thanks to all who contributed to this topic: what makes this mailing list great is that in addition to gaining insight into mod_perl development, you gain insight into mod_perl developers. grant stevens http://l-eet.com
Re: mod_perl mod_php
* Jie Gao ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [30 Aug 2002 09:49]: On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Jesse Erlbaum wrote: [...] I notice that you are using mod_perl AND mod_php. I have a general question for the list: Do people often use BOTH of these environments at the same time? It seems to me that there would be little benefit to using both. Am I mistaken? It happens when somebody wants to use php and you don't want to use it. We had both for a while --- then I got fed up and rewrote the small amount of PHP into Mason. I've been happier ever since =) cheers, -- Iain.
Re: mod_perl mod_php
Quoting Jesse Erlbaum [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I have a general question for the list: Do people often use BOTH of these environments at the same time? It seems to me that there would be little benefit to using both. Am I mistaken? We have some old apps that are written in PHP, but are predominantly a perl shop. To keep the apache processes from getting too big, we just run 3 apache servers currently bound to different IPs, but probably moving to a rev-proxy system when it is needed. Cees
Re: mod_perl mod_php
On 29 Aug 2002 at 19:47, Jesse Erlbaum wrote: I notice that you are using mod_perl AND mod_php. I have a general question for the list: Do people often use BOTH of these environments at the same time? It seems to me that there would be little benefit to using both. Am I mistaken? Most people on this list, it seems, work on rather large sites where they have at least ONE server. I work on small mom-and-pop sites which run on virtual servers. PHP is far, far easier to deploy on these ubiquitous virtual servers. I have in fact moved my apps from mod_perl because the market is just not there if your audience is mom-and-pop (ymmv). This is my primary server: Apache/1.3.26 OpenSSL/0.9.6g (Unix) ApacheJServ/1.1 mod_perl/1.21 PHP/4.0.6 BTW, since someone asked about PHP code, I have been doing a lot of work in PHP lately. I took over for some Russian programmers on one project no comments, none, at least 100 php files throughout the site, proprietary templating system, scope is not by file but by site :) And I've been working on jawamail and that's quite fun. I would much rather work on code written by others in Perl than what I see in PHP. Most of the PHP reminds me of the older Perl4 style where a programmer might repeat the same code very 20 lines :) But there are some good things written in PHP, it's just that there are a WHOLE lot more people writing PHP than Perl (just look at the mailing lists and script archives). Peter --- Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -- Philip K. Dick
RE: mod_perl mod_php
Hey Peter -- I took over for some Russian programmers on one project Wow... Sounds like there's a story in there somewhere! Is your client suffering from globalization woes? :-) Most of the PHP reminds me of the older Perl4 style where a programmer might repeat the same code very 20 lines [...] ...there are a WHOLE lot more people writing PHP than Perl Sounds like there would *HAVE* to be! grin TTYL, -Jesse-
mod_perl mod_php
Hi Ufuk -- Well what you said is true. I actuallay had perl 5.6.1 but I tried to use an old httpd executable compiled with 5.6.0. Adding directories to @INC would help me but each time before I would start httpd, I'd have to do that. Instead I recompiled mod_perl/apache/ssl/php bundle. And that helped (for sure) I notice that you are using mod_perl AND mod_php. I have a general question for the list: Do people often use BOTH of these environments at the same time? It seems to me that there would be little benefit to using both. Am I mistaken? TTYL, -Jesse- -- Jesse Erlbaum The Erlbaum Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 212-684-6161 Fax: 212-684-6226
Re: mod_perl mod_php
On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Jesse Erlbaum wrote: Well what you said is true. I actuallay had perl 5.6.1 but I tried to use an old httpd executable compiled with 5.6.0. Adding directories to INC would help me but each time before I would start httpd, I'd have to do that. Instead I recompiled mod_perl/apache/ssl/php bundle. And that helped (for sure) I notice that you are using mod_perl AND mod_php. I have a general question for the list: Do people often use BOTH of these environments at the same time? It seems to me that there would be little benefit to using both. Am I mistaken? It happens when somebody wants to use php and you don't want to use it. Jie
Re: mod_perl mod_php
I just HAVE to use it since I am moving and already working environemtn to a new platform. I would neither use both if I were given the chance Ufuk - Original Message - From: Jesse Erlbaum [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 4:47 PM Subject: mod_perl mod_php Hi Ufuk -- Well what you said is true. I actuallay had perl 5.6.1 but I tried to use an old httpd executable compiled with 5.6.0. Adding directories to @INC would help me but each time before I would start httpd, I'd have to do that. Instead I recompiled mod_perl/apache/ssl/php bundle. And that helped (for sure) I notice that you are using mod_perl AND mod_php. I have a general question for the list: Do people often use BOTH of these environments at the same time? It seems to me that there would be little benefit to using both. Am I mistaken? TTYL, -Jesse- -- Jesse Erlbaum The Erlbaum Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 212-684-6161 Fax: 212-684-6226
Re: mod_perl mod_php
I have a general question for the list: Do people often use BOTH of these environments at the same time? It seems to me that there would be little benefit to using both. Am I mistaken? I'm using both at work because we're slowly migrating from PHP to Perl. PHP is better than Perl in some cases, I've found. If you're predominantly templating and don't want to futz around with Mason or TT or whatever, PHP will do a fine job. xoxo, Andy -- 'Andy Lester[EMAIL PROTECTED] Programmer/author petdance.com Daddy parsley.org/quinn Jk'=~/.+/s;print((split//,$) [unpack'C*',n2]3%+\34.'%.'^%4+!o.'])
Re: mod_perl mod_php
* Andy Lester ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [30 Aug 2002 10:33]: [...] PHP is better than Perl in some cases, I've found. If you're predominantly templating and don't want to futz around with Mason or TT or whatever, PHP will do a fine job. I'm naturally biased toward Perl, and generally the PHP I've seen sucks (written by a non-programmer futzing around with third-hand code). Is there good PHP code out there? (I don't want to get into a war over PHP vs Perl, so please don't start one.) cheers, -- Iain.
RE: mod_perl mod_php
Hey Andy -- I'm using both at work because we're slowly migrating from PHP to Perl. That reminds me of a project I started last year. We were charged with assuming responsibility for a website built on ColdFusion. We moved the site from Solaris/Netscape-Commerce to Linux/Apache-mod_perl. Eventually, we intend to strip out as much of that ColdFusion nastiness as we can and replace it with Perl. It's great to be able to stack environments. The concurrent environments (ColdFusion coexisting with mod_perl) is letting us do so over time. TTYL, -Jesse- -- Jesse Erlbaum The Erlbaum Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 212-684-6161 Fax: 212-684-6226
Re: dyld problems with Apache 1.3.19 and mod_perl/mod_php on Mac OSX 10.0.03
Hi there, On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Martin Redington wrote: I'm having some some difficulties with Apache 1.3.19 and mod_perl/mod_php. [On Mac OS X] Never built on the Mac myself, some people had trouble, looks like you're an expert. From what I see on the mod_perl List about mod_perl and PHP on *other* operating systems they don't always play together too well so you perhaps can expect a few teething problems. Have you been keeping an eye on the mod_perl lists lately at all? The reason I ask is that there have been some recent discussions about mod_perl on MacOS X and if you've not seen them it might be worth your while browsing. Only in the last few weeks, maybe a couple of months. Check out the DIGEST too. Sorry if this isn't too much help. Maybe you'll get something more concrete when people start to disagree with me. :) 73, Ged.
Re: dyld problems with Apache 1.3.19 and mod_perl/mod_php on Mac OS X 10.0.03
On Friday, June 1, 2001, at 08:33 am, Ged Haywood wrote: On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Martin Redington wrote: I'm having some some difficulties with Apache 1.3.19 and mod_perl/mod_php. [On Mac OS X] Never built on the Mac myself, some people had trouble, looks like you're an expert. I was lucky enough to have built everything before, on Linux, and to have the hints and tips from the stepwise and Mac OS Hints crew ... From what I see on the mod_perl List about mod_perl and PHP on *other* operating systems they don't always play together too well so you perhaps can expect a few teething problems. I'm pretty sure that this is OS X specific. The dyld issue with multiple definitions is a known issue (see the libtool man page). Apache contains a patch which installs error handlers for multiple definitions, which ignores them (although its not clear to me if this code actually get compiled on OS X, there's a change note for Apache that suggests its no longer required). Have you been keeping an eye on the mod_perl lists lately at all? The reason I ask is that there have been some recent discussions about mod_perl on MacOS X and if you've not seen them it might be worth your while browsing. Only in the last few weeks, maybe a couple of months. I've searched the mod_perl (and other) archive(s) pretty extensively. Try google with 'Mac OS X dyld multiple definitions to see some posts. Lots of people seem to have hit the dyld problem with one thing or another (python is another one), but no-one's posted any good info on fixes for it. Sorry if this isn't too much help. Maybe you'll get something more concrete when people start to disagree with me. :) I hope so. Right now it seems like no-one is running apache/mod_perl/mod_php with Apache::DBI (if you are, and can get it to work, *please* let me know how you did it) ...
dyld problems with Apache 1.3.19 and mod_perl/mod_php on Mac OS X 10.0.03
I'm having some some difficulties with Apache 1.3.19 and mod_perl/mod_php. Everything builds fine, but I get dyld multiple definition errors in some circumstances. I believe this is connected to the OX X dyld's insistence on freaking out with multiple definitions (so non Mac OS X users might like to stop here) but I'm not sure what the fix is. I've spent quite a long time on this, and am getting quite desperate. Any pointers would be very helpful. I'm used to using persistent database connections under mod_perl and Apache, via the Apache::DBI modules, and Tim Bunce's excellent DBD modules, on Linux. I also like to build everything myself. So, I downloaded and installed Perl 5.6.1, Apache 1.3.19, mod_perl 1.25, mysql 3.23.36, the Msql-Mysql-modules 1.2216, DBI 1.15, Apache::DBI 0.88 and php 4.05. After some fiddling, and with some help from Mac OS X Hints and Stepwise (Thanks especially to the macosx-perl mailing list, Scott Anguish at Stepwise, and Merlin Tishauser [EMAIL PROTECTED]), I got everything to build. I also got persistent database connections to a mysql database. When I added mod_php to the build, via apxs, my apache build started dying on startup, with the following error message: dyld: /usr/local/apache1.3.19/bin/httpd multiple definitions of symbol __dig_vec /usr/local/apache1.3.19/libexec/libphp4.so definition of __dig_vec /Library/Perl/site_perl/5.6.1/darwin/auto/DBD/mysql/mysql.bundle definition of __dig_vec /usr/local/apache/bin/apachectl start: httpd could not be started I tracked the error down to a startup script that I run via a PerlRequire directive (see the mod_perl docs), to open an initial database handle, and load various perl Modules. Commenting out the PerlRequire stopped the error, but when I requested my test_database.pl script (which runs a simple select on the database), from a mod_perl directory, the browser hung, and similar dyld errors appeared in the error log. Strangely, a copy of the script that I keep in in a non mod_perl cgi-bin directory runs with no problem. Within the script, the errors originate with the line use DBD::MySQL, or at an open connection statement, which is effectively the same thing. I think what is happening is that the __dig_vec symbol being loaded from the DBD::MySQL bundle is conflicting with the same symbol in mod_php. I looked in the Apache 1.3.19 source, and can see handlers for multiple definition in os/unix/os.c, but I guess that the DBD::MySQL module is being loaded by code in perl or mod_perl. I guess my question is, is there an easy way to fix this conflict, or do perl and/or mod_perl need to be patched with similar dyld error handlers to the ones in Apache (see os/unix/os.c)? My config info is as follows: Perl: config_args='-ds -Dmksymlinks -Adefine:prefix=/usr/local -Dccflags=-g -pipe -Dfirstmakefile=GNUmakefile -Adefine:privlib=/Library/Perl/5.6.1 -Adefine:sitelib=/Library/Perl/site_perl/5.6.1 -Adefine:vendorlib=/Network/Library/Perl/5.6.1 -Dman1dir=/usr/local/man/man1 -Dman3dir=/usr/local/man/man3 -Uinstallusrbinperl' Apache: ./configure \ --prefix=/usr/local/apache1.3.19 \ --with-layout=Apache \ --enable-module=all \ --enable-shared=max \ mod_perl: built via apxs, with EVERYTHING=1 PHP (patched as advised by Merlin Tishauser): ./configure \ --with-xml \ --with-zlib \ --with-apxs=/usr/local/apache/bin/apxs \ --with-mysql=/usr/local/mysql \ --disable-pear \ --enable-track-vars \ == ===
